Solid video, although your friend talking over you a few times was a bit jarring. Since CIG tends to change their mind and second guess their design choices, I think significant changes are forthcoming. I'm curious, since this comparison was under the current heavily flawed PU flight model, how do you think they will compare in Master Modes?
The Master Modes question is a big unknown with how these ships will shake out, but the raw thruster capabilities of the F8C are quite formidible. I suspect that its when we are talking deployment of multiple F7A/C Mk2 off of a carrier that the real use case will show for these ships, where you can bring such potent fighters on a multi-system convoy for protection.
As a couple others have mentioned before. The F8 replaced the hundred + year old F7. The MrkII is an updated version yes, but still of an aging fighter. Game wise, the MrkII is really just a visual upgrade to bring the old design up to date. Much like the Cutlass or 300 series. The F7 is smaller, but it only has one main thruster. While the F8 has three main thruster clusters. One might say, but the F7’s is larger. The counter argument is the F7 has one large outdated main engine. The F8 has three modern streamlined main engines. So similar to the F-16 to the F-15, or the F-35 to the F-22. The multiple engine larger fighter is much faster. But the most important thing, to me at least. Is that the changing the F7 speed wouldn’t only affect the F8. It would encroach on the Sabre’s territory. The Sabre that is also meant to replace the Hornet. The Sabre, that defining characteristics. Are stealth, speed, & maneuverability. Again, since the F8 replaces the F7. It’s mainly a carrier fighter too. Personally, I think the MrkII is in a good spot. Where it should be. But to each his own.🇺🇦🇭🇹🇵🇸
Great video! For fun: add a S3 repeater on the nose (Attrition-3 looks best), 2x AD4B on the wings and get the Speciality Varipuck S5 with another AD4B. Together with the smaller frame and cross section, you will melt everything rather quick🙂.
Is the F7A MKII out? The timestamp says F8A mkII, I did 5/5 so if I get the F7C MKII I can upgrade? Got the token for the long run for the option but I’m just confused if the A variant is even out yet or not. Awesome video and comparison I love these types of videos!
F7A Mk2 upgrade is over a few weeks, and you can play catch up all the way until Invictus on the contracts for it. The 5/5 on Intel Raid means you completed first part of Overdrive event.
You ready for the meta………….. I don’t want to make people sad/mad. The real meta fleet ……………… a starter ( under 6 min reclaim time roughly ) and…………. A ccu to a ship you really want to start the game in . (On the way to that ccu you should be able to try 2-8 ships below the price of your final biggo) but this is true meta if you can spend less than 500 dollars and enjoy those assets you have , then until persistence ends you have beaten Chris roberts . An f8 lighting and prospector ccu would be a example of a winning fleet many combinations , by spending less than 500 dollars you won’t feel sorry when you have to drop 3k to get that computer that runs sc (when published and optimized. ) obviously if you get 6 figures a year , have a steady life partner and own your home than by all means spend how you like .
Well _of course_ it's terrible in atmosphere. Those vestigial wings disturb the airflow over the main wings, the main wing underhangs disturb the airflow at its tips, the main turret sticks out too much, and the raised tail forces the fighter to thrust at an angle to compensate for it, further robbing it from the thrust power it could otherwise have.
The trim on the Ironscale paint is bronze while the F8 executive have gold, but non the less beautiful and matches up perfect with a full Attritions loadout!
One of your best videos yet! I have an F8C LTI and found no reason to get the F7C/A-mkii until you mentioned carrier-based like in BSG. All this time, I was comparing apples to apples, but it never was and your video made that really clear. Thank you! BTW, I love the BSG music in the background! T'was the perfect touch.
Thank you. It gets dusty at my editing station when I get a chance to use BSG '04 music and it's finally licensable cleanly... and that's the power of the F7A/C Mk2 series - they are stalwarts of the UEE Navy/CDF Fleet and closest thing you can get to a Viper.
I dont expect to see too many changes, only because MM is just arround the corner. And with MM all ship performance will change. Why make a change to something when in a few weeks that system will be going away? So its likely that what we see now will be the final values for the MKII for this system. And whem MM hits it will be rebalanced there. If we see any changes between now and then it will likely be that we will see the bucking in atmo fixed. Something to note, after flying both ships, the F8C has much higher tol speeds than the F7 MKII does, however the F7 MKII,flwe circles arround the F8. If anything your teats were biased to max speed, if you had tried these ships on an actual in game race course, you may have seen diffrent results.
MM will certainly change a ton of ships and yes likely fixes for Atmo Mk2 will be in there I suspect. We did create a ad-hoc track with two hard turns in it so to speak but in Atmo with its current flight model the F7C Mk2 just feels horrible and even small things like lack of boost compared to F8C hurt it coming out of turns when you are back on straightaways. Feels like F8C got interceptor style performance which is hard to catch up with. Hopefully MM gives a pass to all ships.
@@RedJay they stated all ships are getting a pass, they are being assigned roles, and will take their base stats from there. So with any luck it will be fixed with MM.
Jay that whole flight line has issues in atmo. The gladiator is a meme ship but I've loved it since 2013 and that thing flies like a bus in atmos. That flight family may have jet wings but that doesnt mean they can fly in atmosphere.
As someone who just came back to sc cuz of this and upgrade my arrow to f7c mk2 I thought the horrible atmo flight was cuz of new atmo behavior, was painful to fly around in atmo. Hopefully it gets fixed, that said its gonna be an amazing ship once it gets tweaked abit and its gonna fit perfectly inside my polaris once thats out as well.
It will fit in Polaris both physically and for getting work done. Agreed it will likely be tweaked at the latest with early Master Mode rollout I am betting. Enjoy your ship!
The F8 is the equivalent to the F22 the F7 is the F16 or F18…. It should be faster, much faster in a straight line. But the F7 should be much more maneuverable in atmosphere. Also, the size 4 weapons are going to make it much better for attacking larger craft when armor comes into the game . All these size twos are garbage vs shipped with any protection
Good point on weapon sizing when talking working on larger vessels. It's also a matter of right sizing for your use cases: if the F7C/A Mk2 is working as an escort for torp runs by bombers then faster rate of fire turreted weapons may be better then fixed weaponry slower rate of fire but sized up one size options. Standlone though larger weapons are well suited for working on incoming Tali for example taking on the carrier that's its home. Appreciate the F22 F8 series comparison to F7 series to smaller single engine fighter jets some of which are carrier based
Nice review/comparison! To the point, very little fluff. I picked up the F7C Mk II with the Ironscale paint when it released pretty much for the reasons you mentioned in the video. I also have the F8C (non-executive). I enjoy them both for different reasons. Got yourself a new subscriber.
As much as i like the F7C, and i do, i doubt i'll keep it, ive already melted the F8, and will use the F7C as an LTI token for my ODYSSEY build at Invictus, or at least the initial chain. Ive decided to stick with the ''Arrow/Gladius/F7C-S Hornet Ghost'', and add to my already large fleet including amonst others: ''Polaris/Perseus/Arrastra''. For me, fighters although crucial as a support tool, are at the bottom of my list, each to their own of course. Enjoy your content.
my F7A mk2 is really bad in atmosphere, it nosedives for no reason very often, in space it is perfect on the other hand, but in atmosphere it is a nightmare to pilot, in combat. I have many other ships this is the only one that is so bad. Too bad for a long mission reward Xexo, no thanks CIG!
Greating Zyvhur! Possible, but its not just raw speed, its performance issues too. Suspecting a hotfix in an upcoming build is in order... somewhere between where its at and where it will be under MM.
"Should I get the Hornet Mk II?" Are you a combat pilot? "No." Then no. ... Are you a combat pilot? "Yes." Do you already have a fighter? "Yes." Then no. The Hornet Ghost was my very first pledge "ship". I've loved the Hornet line since its inception. For me, this was an easy pick up because it's a much better looking Hornet than the others. (Seriously, look at the underbelly of the MkI Hornets. It looks like someone cut out the belly of the craft.)
Always loved the hornet series but the big ass square engine always kind of turned me off, was waiting for the mk2 cuz the engine looks streamline and sexy, same sa the backside where its more circular than square.
In New Babbage Commons the module store has the turret and nose mounts for Hornet to then mount guns to them. Note both are a size down in weapons if you go with turrets.
This is the C4-160f F7C mk1 ball turret, which is why it looks really tall and derpy on the mk2. The F7A mk2 comes with the C5-173f, which also fits the F7C mk2, but it isn't available in shops currently. Similar situation for the nose guns, the mk1s use "F7C Nose Turret" that mounts 2xS1, while F7A mk2 comes with "F7A Nose Turret" that mounts 2xS3s.
F8C is a more expensive ship ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And if you think it's not about the money - remember that Hornet Mk I is still in game, CIG didn't just upgrade all Mk I to Mk II as a "gold pass". Lol.
Uno reverse card, cig nerfs the original f7 line up to underperform under the mk2. This makes sense as the mk2 is directly out of production with modern thinking. while the originals are all awaiting a balance pass.
Interesting thought, would be a shame for such a performance minded medium fighter to be this bad in Atmo though. Game would be far, far slower... and nearly a standstill for bulks indy vessels in atmo...
You guys yawed instead of rolling and pitching like you are supposed to to maintain maneuverability in atmosphere. Had you done that, you would have noticed the MK2 loses control during such maneuvers.
When I was flying I did roll and pitch in atmo. The f7 still had issues, I probably could have rolled more to combat it but overall it just felt unstable
I think there will, but also could be a balancing thing that would make you still want to use the mk1. so we will have to see! one thing i thought the first time i was flying it was I think that with mastermodes the speed at which you fight at might make it more usable in atmo. since you are going slower there is less of that stalling or abrupt turning you experience with it now but who knows lol @@RedJay
Yeah, until armor comes into the game and size 2s are useless vs a Zeus CL and the DPS is slashed hard. The Size 4 will be able to do the same DPS it does now to any ship outside of capitals. Is locked into only fighting fighters and maybe a few bigger things. But they said many times that you’re gonna be heavily penalized for small weapons as you should . I was so mad when they locked those size twos and I couldn’t get rid of my gimbals. Every single ship in the game should be able to sacrifice multiple hard points for larger ones
Hopefully CIG can address it in the next 5-7 years of alpha.
Solid video, although your friend talking over you a few times was a bit jarring. Since CIG tends to change their mind and second guess their design choices, I think significant changes are forthcoming.
I'm curious, since this comparison was under the current heavily flawed PU flight model, how do you think they will compare in Master Modes?
The Master Modes question is a big unknown with how these ships will shake out, but the raw thruster capabilities of the F8C are quite formidible. I suspect that its when we are talking deployment of multiple F7A/C Mk2 off of a carrier that the real use case will show for these ships, where you can bring such potent fighters on a multi-system convoy for protection.
I was looking for an F8 Executive comparison. Suspected the paint was similar to the F7 Ironscale. Thank you!
CIG, standardize your naming convention.
Caught us by suprise just how it colorway wise is matching pretty much.
As a couple others have mentioned before. The F8 replaced the hundred + year old F7. The MrkII is an updated version yes, but still of an aging fighter. Game wise, the MrkII is really just a visual upgrade to bring the old design up to date. Much like the Cutlass or 300 series. The F7 is smaller, but it only has one main thruster. While the F8 has three main thruster clusters. One might say, but the F7’s is larger. The counter argument is the F7 has one large outdated main engine. The F8 has three modern streamlined main engines. So similar to the F-16 to the F-15, or the F-35 to the F-22. The multiple engine larger fighter is much faster. But the most important thing, to me at least. Is that the changing the F7 speed wouldn’t only affect the F8. It would encroach on the Sabre’s territory. The Sabre that is also meant to replace the Hornet. The Sabre, that defining characteristics. Are stealth, speed, & maneuverability. Again, since the F8 replaces the F7. It’s mainly a carrier fighter too. Personally, I think the MrkII is in a good spot. Where it should be. But to each his own.🇺🇦🇭🇹🇵🇸
Great video! For fun: add a S3 repeater on the nose (Attrition-3 looks best), 2x AD4B on the wings and get the Speciality Varipuck S5 with another AD4B. Together with the smaller frame and cross section, you will melt everything rather quick🙂.
It is great combat ship when the target ends up in the crosshairs!
Is the F7A MKII out? The timestamp says F8A mkII, I did 5/5 so if I get the F7C MKII I can upgrade? Got the token for the long run for the option but I’m just confused if the A variant is even out yet or not. Awesome video and comparison I love these types of videos!
F7A Mk2 upgrade is over a few weeks, and you can play catch up all the way until Invictus on the contracts for it. The 5/5 on Intel Raid means you completed first part of Overdrive event.
You ready for the meta………….. I don’t want to make people sad/mad. The real meta fleet ……………… a starter ( under 6 min reclaim time roughly ) and…………. A ccu to a ship you really want to start the game in . (On the way to that ccu you should be able to try 2-8 ships below the price of your final biggo) but this is true meta if you can spend less than 500 dollars and enjoy those assets you have , then until persistence ends you have beaten Chris roberts . An f8 lighting and prospector ccu would be a example of a winning fleet many combinations , by spending less than 500 dollars you won’t feel sorry when you have to drop 3k to get that computer that runs sc (when published and optimized. ) obviously if you get 6 figures a year , have a steady life partner and own your home than by all means spend how you like .
Attrition repeaters perfectly match the Ironscale livery btw
Indeed they do!
Well _of course_ it's terrible in atmosphere. Those vestigial wings disturb the airflow over the main wings, the main wing underhangs disturb the airflow at its tips, the main turret sticks out too much, and the raised tail forces the fighter to thrust at an angle to compensate for it, further robbing it from the thrust power it could otherwise have.
Hoping Mk2 get some work to fix atmo effects
The trim on the Ironscale paint is bronze while the F8 executive have gold, but non the less beautiful and matches up perfect with a full Attritions loadout!
Nice loadout! It's wild how close they are in "natural" lighting like out in the field
One of your best videos yet! I have an F8C LTI and found no reason to get the F7C/A-mkii until you mentioned carrier-based like in BSG. All this time, I was comparing apples to apples, but it never was and your video made that really clear. Thank you! BTW, I love the BSG music in the background! T'was the perfect touch.
Thank you. It gets dusty at my editing station when I get a chance to use BSG '04 music and it's finally licensable cleanly... and that's the power of the F7A/C Mk2 series - they are stalwarts of the UEE Navy/CDF Fleet and closest thing you can get to a Viper.
I dont expect to see too many changes, only because MM is just arround the corner. And with MM all ship performance will change. Why make a change to something when in a few weeks that system will be going away?
So its likely that what we see now will be the final values for the MKII for this system. And whem MM hits it will be rebalanced there. If we see any changes between now and then it will likely be that we will see the bucking in atmo fixed.
Something to note, after flying both ships, the F8C has much higher tol speeds than the F7 MKII does, however the F7 MKII,flwe circles arround the F8. If anything your teats were biased to max speed, if you had tried these ships on an actual in game race course, you may have seen diffrent results.
MM will certainly change a ton of ships and yes likely fixes for Atmo Mk2 will be in there I suspect. We did create a ad-hoc track with two hard turns in it so to speak but in Atmo with its current flight model the F7C Mk2 just feels horrible and even small things like lack of boost compared to F8C hurt it coming out of turns when you are back on straightaways. Feels like F8C got interceptor style performance which is hard to catch up with. Hopefully MM gives a pass to all ships.
@@RedJay they stated all ships are getting a pass, they are being assigned roles, and will take their base stats from there. So with any luck it will be fixed with MM.
Jay that whole flight line has issues in atmo. The gladiator is a meme ship but I've loved it since 2013 and that thing flies like a bus in atmos. That flight family may have jet wings but that doesnt mean they can fly in atmosphere.
Would like to see all these ships get an overhaul on atmo fight characteristics. Wild how they perform right now.
As someone who just came back to sc cuz of this and upgrade my arrow to f7c mk2 I thought the horrible atmo flight was cuz of new atmo behavior, was painful to fly around in atmo.
Hopefully it gets fixed, that said its gonna be an amazing ship once it gets tweaked abit and its gonna fit perfectly inside my polaris once thats out as well.
It will fit in Polaris both physically and for getting work done. Agreed it will likely be tweaked at the latest with early Master Mode rollout I am betting. Enjoy your ship!
The F8 is the equivalent to the F22 the F7 is the F16 or F18…. It should be faster, much faster in a straight line. But the F7 should be much more maneuverable in atmosphere.
Also, the size 4 weapons are going to make it much better for attacking larger craft when armor comes into the game . All these size twos are garbage vs shipped with any protection
Good point on weapon sizing when talking working on larger vessels. It's also a matter of right sizing for your use cases: if the F7C/A Mk2 is working as an escort for torp runs by bombers then faster rate of fire turreted weapons may be better then fixed weaponry slower rate of fire but sized up one size options. Standlone though larger weapons are well suited for working on incoming Tali for example taking on the carrier that's its home. Appreciate the F22 F8 series comparison to F7 series to smaller single engine fighter jets some of which are carrier based
Nice review/comparison! To the point, very little fluff. I picked up the F7C Mk II with the Ironscale paint when it released pretty much for the reasons you mentioned in the video. I also have the F8C (non-executive). I enjoy them both for different reasons. Got yourself a new subscriber.
Thank you! I chose to use the F8C Exec just to show off the same paint as Ironscale paint on F7C Mk2.
As much as i like the F7C, and i do, i doubt i'll keep it, ive already melted the F8, and will use the F7C as an LTI token for my ODYSSEY build at Invictus, or at least the initial chain. Ive decided to stick with the ''Arrow/Gladius/F7C-S Hornet Ghost'', and add to my already large fleet including amonst others: ''Polaris/Perseus/Arrastra''. For me, fighters although crucial as a support tool, are at the bottom of my list, each to their own of course. Enjoy your content.
my F7A mk2 is really bad in atmosphere, it nosedives for no reason very often, in space it is perfect on the other hand, but in atmosphere it is a nightmare to pilot, in combat. I have many other ships this is the only one that is so bad. Too bad for a long mission reward Xexo, no thanks CIG!
Unfortunately it looks like F7A Mk2 is a space based combat ship, but it did get a manuverability buff a bit in last patch.
I believe they applied the master modes speeds to the F7C so the F8 probably wont stay like that
Greating Zyvhur! Possible, but its not just raw speed, its performance issues too. Suspecting a hotfix in an upcoming build is in order... somewhere between where its at and where it will be under MM.
@@RedJay yeah I've done some more atmo stuff with it now and hopefully it can see some improvements :)
The rear tail is more a counterweight as opposed to an aerodynamic surface. No wonder it doesn't play well in atmo.
Interesting! Maybe thats causing the problems.
@@RedJayMaybe that's always been the design.
to be fair, the F8 is supposed to be superior to the F7 in the lore. So I am not surprised by this.
In many ways sure especially when you consider the use case of each craft, but not this pronounced.
"Should I get the Hornet Mk II?"
Are you a combat pilot?
"No."
Then no.
...
Are you a combat pilot?
"Yes."
Do you already have a fighter?
"Yes."
Then no.
The Hornet Ghost was my very first pledge "ship". I've loved the Hornet line since its inception. For me, this was an easy pick up because it's a much better looking Hornet than the others. (Seriously, look at the underbelly of the MkI Hornets. It looks like someone cut out the belly of the craft.)
Always loved the hornet series but the big ass square engine always kind of turned me off, was waiting for the mk2 cuz the engine looks streamline and sexy, same sa the backside where its more circular than square.
Mk2 does look damn good
how do you get the mk2 turret on the mk2c
In New Babbage Commons the module store has the turret and nose mounts for Hornet to then mount guns to them. Note both are a size down in weapons if you go with turrets.
This is the C4-160f F7C mk1 ball turret, which is why it looks really tall and derpy on the mk2. The F7A mk2 comes with the C5-173f, which also fits the F7C mk2, but it isn't available in shops currently. Similar situation for the nose guns, the mk1s use "F7C Nose Turret" that mounts 2xS1, while F7A mk2 comes with "F7A Nose Turret" that mounts 2xS3s.
Probably heavily reliant on the Flight Control Surfaces. We'll see how it flies when those are out
Will be interesting!
F8C is a more expensive ship ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And if you think it's not about the money - remember that Hornet Mk I is still in game, CIG didn't just upgrade all Mk I to Mk II as a "gold pass". Lol.
Uno reverse card, cig nerfs the original f7 line up to underperform under the mk2. This makes sense as the mk2 is directly out of production with modern thinking. while the originals are all awaiting a balance pass.
Interesting thought, would be a shame for such a performance minded medium fighter to be this bad in Atmo though. Game would be far, far slower... and nearly a standstill for bulks indy vessels in atmo...
@@RedJay from what those who have tested master modes are saying. This is exactly how all the flight modeling it going. What joy...
You guys yawed instead of rolling and pitching like you are supposed to to maintain maneuverability in atmosphere.
Had you done that, you would have noticed the MK2 loses control during such maneuvers.
When I was flying I did roll and pitch in atmo. The f7 still had issues, I probably could have rolled more to combat it but overall it just felt unstable
this was my reaction flying it for the first time.
Space bounties:
"this thing flies like a dream"
The second to entered an atmosphere:
"holy shit"
Exactly! Hope there is a tuning to atmo flight on F7A Mk2 soon.
I think there will, but also could be a balancing thing that would make you still want to use the mk1. so we will have to see! one thing i thought the first time i was flying it was I think that with mastermodes the speed at which you fight at might make it more usable in atmo. since you are going slower there is less of that stalling or abrupt turning you experience with it now but who knows lol @@RedJay
F8 fills my needs.
For many that's true
Yeah, until armor comes into the game and size 2s are useless vs a Zeus CL and the DPS is slashed hard. The Size 4 will be able to do the same DPS it does now to any ship outside of capitals.
Is locked into only fighting fighters and maybe a few bigger things.
But they said many times that you’re gonna be heavily penalized for small weapons as you should .
I was so mad when they locked those size twos and I couldn’t get rid of my gimbals.
Every single ship in the game should be able to sacrifice multiple hard points for larger ones