Do Dirty Cymbals Sound Better?
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Lots of drummers, especially jazz drummers, believe that 'the dirtier the cymbal, the better it sounds'. That sounds like a wonderful, romantic idea but IS IT TRUE?
Only way to find out is to do a Before And After video to let us see and HEAR THE DIFFERENCE!
In this video, Brian will clean an old Zildjian 18" A series cymbal (possibly a Rock crash or crash/ride?) that is cover in some nasty green oxidation and grime. You will get to hear the sound of this cymbal before AND after cleaning so that we can use our ears to guide us toward the truth of "Do Dirty Cymbals Sound Better?"
Using the Session Ace™ SHINE cymbal cleaner and a special textured scrubber glove (available FOR FREE with every 16oz. bottle of the cleaner), Brian show you how to clean your own cymbal safely in real time!
He also covers some best practices for protecting the shape and surface of your cymbals while cleaning your cymbals.
In the end, Brian shows you how Session Ace™ SHINE lifts decades of dirt, grime, and other sound dampening caustics out of the grooves of any cymbal to release the full, true, singing tone of your beloved bronze.
There is no sonic magic in all of that greasy gunk that coats many of your cymbals. If anything, it is muting the beautiful, full-bodied tone that you cymbals were meant to add to the music that you play. Find out how to restore your cymbals' original luster and sound with Session Ace™ SHINE!
Pick up your own bottle of Session Ace™ SHINE at SessionAce.com...
#cymbalcleaning #dirtycymbal #cymbalcleaner #beforeandafter
The quality and the info of the video deserves a million views, Much appreciated! Thank you
Thank you for watching!!
Exactly the type of video I want to see !! I have a uncle who believes it's best to leave it dirty , but I believe it's best to have a clean cymbal. Excited to see more videos 😀 ! Great job cheers 🥂
Thanks! Everybody's opinion is different. My point is that we never buy a cymbal thinking. "In another 30 years, this cymbal will FINALLY sound good to me!"
Cool I’m going to try this on my electric kit
also depends on the type of cymbal and use. I like my crashes clean. My rides dirty.
I sometimes Soak my Cymbals with different cleaning solutions for a Few Hours . It Works !!
What are your go-to cleaning solutions for this purpose?
I don't know anything about cymbals but it sounds noticably higher and crisper and more trebley after!
I was looking for a vid about this cuz I'm about to purchase a REAL dirty nearly brown pair of 1920s 7" hand cymbals, to do that lil crash they love to do at the end. I wonder how they'll sound :)
I've been playing drums since the mid-60's and I still have all of my old cymbals. I always kept them clean with different types of acid base cleaner, followed by a rinse and then Pledge furniture aerosol polish to prevent corrosion and fingerprints, so I can't compare the "then" sound to the "now" sound because they have kept their original sound.
That's a great process! I'll have to look into the Pledge part of that.
Whoa I didn’t know Rick Nielsen was a drummer!
I immediately said the same thing before I saw your comment.. LOL WOW. This is what I came here for
Rick Nielsen good one !! I thought it was joe banamasa
“hats are alright, crash is alright, my ride sounds a little weird”
When I was searching on how to clean cymbals I had an EQ in mind. This.... gave me a new perspective. :D
Glad I could help!
Excellent video and I agree, these cymbals sound so much better after cleaning. And, I love they way they look too, much better than an ashtray on a stand. Take care. Jeff
Thanks Jeff!! (I'm going to borrow that "ashtray on a stand" part! 😉)
@@BrianStephensOfficial LOL! Have a great drumming day.
Been playing the same Zildjian A's for 40 years. I keep um clean.
Awesome!!! You AND those cymbals are almost vintage!! ;-)
@@BrianStephensOfficial Most of them I bought used in the 80's so some may be pretty old.. 4 of them anyway. The other two I got new back then.
This is a commercial, not a comparison video. Yes the clean cymbal appears to sound better but that’s an illusion created by a combination of it being hit harder and the human ear perceiving louder sounds as “better”. That’s why we’re compelled to turn the volume up when our favorite song comes on. If you focus on the 2-3 crashes of similar strength before and after cleaning there’s no audible difference. However, in fairness I will say that as a cleaner this stuff does seem to work very well.
Well, at the very least, you partially got the point of this video. It’s a demo video, showing how to use this product and what the results are. I own this company, developed both of our cymbal cleaners (and all of the other products that Session Ace sell). So, it would’ve been deceptive or disingenuous to call this a “review”. It’s a product demo that leads with the question “Do Dirty Cymbals Sound Better?”
As far as volume, stroke length or intensity, maybe next time I should get the tape measure out and measure my stick path? Or maybe we should do this with a robot arm? I dunno. You tell me.
One point everybody is missing: If you clean your dirty cymbals they WILL be louder afterwards. Toss a dish towel on your cymbal and then hit it… go ahead. I’ll wait.
Is your cymbal quieter with the dish towel on it? Of course!!! It’s the same premise.
Coat a brand new cymbal in 2 decades worth of sweat, grime, dust, smoke, dried up IPA’s, and whatever else it comes in contact with in clubs, bars, and other live gigs along practice sessions and purely sitting in a stand out in the air. It’s like encasing your cymbal in a micro thin dish towel. Clean all of that gunk off, and it WILL be louder. No way around it.
I appreciate you for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. I really do. I just think you wanted this video to be something that it isn’t.
He scrubs this thing hoping it turns out good. I'm not sold on how expensive the product is and how much is needed to clean a cymbal..
It sounds better dirty lol
I use a drill with an extra handle on it. I've got a rubber circular pad on a drill bit stem. Cover that with a lamb's wool sock tighten the strings up and then pour Brasso on the cymbal. Before polishing, place a round piece of Scotch Guard material on the Lamb's wool sock and start scrubbing. It takes a while and you have to repeat the process many times to get the cymbal back in pristine shape, but trust me they will look like they just came from the store. If you clean them often it will take shorter time to get them clean. Only the first time takes many scrubs. Oh, and wipe off the black Brasso residue with window cleaner and paper towels.
That’s one way of doing it. Only problem with this method: Over time, it will strip small amounts of metal from the cymbal each time and gradually change the sound.
We used your same method back when I as in high school and college for marching band cymbals. (I still have one of those cymbals that was cleaned this way every week during football season for about a decade and it has almost no grooves on it from the lathing done back at the factory.)
How much does it change the sound? Maybe that could be the idea for a new video? Hmmm🤔
11:36 That is the red pill! Thanks!
I have been looking for this kind of information for a long time. I got a pair of Zildjian New Beat Hi Hats and they need some treatment.
Thanks for watching and you’re welcome! Grab some SHINE cleaner and get those hats all sort out!
depends. paiste signature crashes for example, you should definitely dust them from time to time, brightness is their strong point and i could definitely hear when they hadnt been wiped down in a while they sounded a bit duller. on the other hand i have a second hand zultan caz ride and its filthy and it sounds great.
Totally with you on the Paistes. I bought a used one off a guy who was complaining about it sounding dull. He saw me play a gig with it a few months later (after I cleaned it) and offered to buy it back from me on the spot. Not sure what it is about the quirky off-brand cymbals but they usually sound better all gunked up. I’ve got an old one from the early 60’s that I won’t clean for that very reason.
@@BrianStephensOfficial yea im far from a cymbal connoisseur but paiste in my experience need a bit more love than other cymbals to keep that brightness which is what theyre good at.
You deserve way more subs and views. Quality video!
Thanks so much! There's tons more videos on my channel to watch. Have fun with those!!
Wow, exactly what I wanted to see. Very cool demo..
Thanks! I’ve got another one here on the channel that is even better and that almost no one has watched (probably because the title of that video isn’t as “engaging” or controversial). You can find it ua-cam.com/video/7p-pHHmurmE/v-deo.html
@@BrianStephensOfficial nice! Thanks. I like that regardless of the product used, this shows you can definitely make it sound better.
I've heard that, apparently, back in the day some jazz drummers would bury their cymbals in their gardens for some time in order to give them a drier and more aged sound.
Yep, that's an old story that people have been telling for years. Having done it myself, I can tell you that you can't just bury your cymbal in any old dirt. In fact, most soil will create almost zero change in the sound of the cymbal other than muting it because of the caked on dirt. If the soil has a ton of sulphur or other acidic content in it, then you've got a shot at having something happen.
Raw bell dry ride
This is interesting because I’m not sure whether it’s worth cleaning cymbals or not.
From what I gather from the video:
If you want bright and sharp tone with sustain then it makes sense to clean it.
If you want darker sounds with less sustain then let it be.
I think the only thing that matters is whether the integrity of the cymbal is negatively affected by little to no cleaning, which hasn’t really been answered (or asked) here, but I’d be interested in your thoughts.
Personally I prefer the darker sounds and the look you get with unkempt cymbals, particularly with those from the 60s / 70s, but I’ve never been in the studio environment where clarity could be key, depending on the sound.
What do you think?
For me, it's more about restoring as much of the original tone as possible. No one buys a cymbals and thinks, "You know, in 30 years, after this thing gets all gunked up with dirt, beer, and cigarette smoke, it's going to sound AWESOME!" We pick a cymbal out because we like the sound it makes at that time.
Now, time, vibration, and chemistry (oxidation of metals is just that) are obviously going to have a subtle effect on the tonal qualities of a cymbal long term. But to get back to as close as we can get to the original sound of a cymbal, cleaning it just makes sense.
I can't think of any negative effects of cleaning depending on the method you use. There are some products out on the market that don't "clean" as much as they do a stripping of the top layer off of the cymbal. Metal, dirt, everything gets pulled off. (If you've ever seen an old marching band crash cymbal at a High School that has almost no grooves left, you know what I'm talking about)
In the case of the Session Ace products, they only clean the dirt out of the pores of the cymbal. The metal and any of the golden patina (that happens over time to every cymbal thanks to oxidation) remain.
@@BrianStephensOfficial Thanks for coming back to me. In Scotland here we don’t have much in the way of high school marching bands, but I get what you mean.
I’ve only recently started playing drums and I’m slowly increasing my cymbal collection. Of the new and old ones I’ve acquired, i definitely prefer the “dirty” ones. You’d have your work cut out on those!
Have a pleasant day.
I think dirty equipment just reflects that you're a dirty person who doesn't care to take care of their things. just my 2 cents.
@@human47134 Well, I've seen enough of that sort of thing in other musicians that I could agree with that statement (depending on the day of the week).
@@BrianStephensOfficial Good vid. I bought a pair of used Zildjian New Beat, Hollow Logo '70s hats that came out of a club. When I opened the package, I was hit by 40 years of smoke, grime, dirt, stick marks and unmitigated club funk.
They definitely sounded mellower & even a little buttery. Sold 'em a little while later on Ebay unmolested and they went quick. Probably some jazz guy because they were lighter. Nice hats.
Something to be said for age and experience...
Cool video! Thanks!
Thanks for watching! There’s an all new one with tons of sound examples, recorded down in my studio at :
ua-cam.com/video/-UAPfwxeOFU/v-deo.html
I discovered an old Paiste 101 series brass cymbal in my old storage shelter.
It was the first cymbal I thought to improve my horrendous "No Name" brass Hi Hat & Ride cymbals with, that came with my equally ghastly sounding Tamburo kit, which was my first drumkit I got for my 13th birthday.
And it also suffered from leprosy. Lol
So I bought a can of Flex Seal Spray & got to work.
Im telling you, Flex Seal Spray is a true Allrounder.
Whether you try to restore your cymbals, or give your meatloaf a nice crust, without having it fall apart in the oven.
Flex Seal Spray is the answer.
These days I even use it in lue of whipped cream, since it tastes so exotic.
Lol
I am laughing so hard at this comment that I can barely type a reply!! 😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😂🤣😂🤣 Thank you!
Much brighter and fuller sounding with a bigger crash.
Yes!!!
I have a cleaner with lye in it. It removes the ink and everything else. Just don't drink it. Clean is always better except on zildjan a rides from the 70s. They need all the help they can get.
Can it clean boat hulls too?! 😉
@@BrianStephensOfficial I'm actually mistaken. Zims cleaner doesn't use lye but some other very toxic acid. It's very good for metal. In fact it's the best.
Most crashes sound better clean , rides on the other hand can sound good clean or dirty, i once buried a ride cymbal for 12 yrs , after being unearthed it had an awesome very dry and earthy sound. Experiment never know what sounds you'll find
12 years?! Did you just forget it?! ;-) I would've needed one of those pirate treasure maps with the big red X on it to find that thing! (I usually forget where I set my car keys down 5 minutes ago. LOL)
@@BrianStephensOfficial actually yes I did forget about it lol. It was only to be buried for a year but I made the audition for the Canton BlueCoats drum and bugle corps and I was on tour for 5 yrs after that. And it wasn't till I got into a band were I didn't like the ride I was using and remembered I had buried that one in the garden under the bird feeder. I still have that ride it is 30yrs old now and I love it's sound and beautiful nature made patina. Oh I should mention it is a 22" Zildjian Amir series ride
It depends on the cymbal. I want my ride dirty and dry.
My brilliant cymbals I want bright and trebly. And it's a matter of personal taste and what type of music you are playing.
My Istanbul Xist Ion sounds much better clean but you don't know until you let them get dirty
A great point. But was your ride cymbal the sound you were looking for (or pretty close to it) when you first got it?
Sounds good 👍 👌
Thanks so much!!!
Aight i’d rather clean cymbals on my sink than dishes 😂
I totally agree!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Why do mine sound more like a gong then a cymbal?
I’m guessing that they’re really thick. What cymbals are you using?
@@BrianStephensOfficial im new to drums so im gonna try my best to give you good descriptions but, all sabian 20/51 16/41 and 14/36
@@jacksondernar1984 Are they from the B8 line of Sabians?
@@BrianStephensOfficial yes they are why? Are they bad?
@@jacksondernar1984 Not bad. They’re entry level cymbals and, like most, have that sonic quality that you’re talking about. (More gong than crash) Lots of people thinks it’s the B8 alloy that’s the problem, but Paiste makes some awesome sounding B8 alloy cymbals. With a little more lathing & hammering, those Sabian B8’s could sound like a much more expensive cymbal. But that said, part of a higher priced cymbal’s price tag is the amount of work that goes into making it, especially during the hammering & lathing phases.
Have a question for you. I have a K Zildjian it's not an ink but stamped into the the top.. will you're product scratch that stamped K Zildjian?
Nope. There’s nothing abrasive in Session Ace SHINE. So, it won’t scratch anything.
@@BrianStephensOfficial thank you
Now ya know why they left it dirty,sounds to bright being clean.just my 2 cents. The product does clean the cymbal nice.
Thanks for the reply, David. The intention with this product is to get back (as close as possible) to the original sound that your cymbal(s) had when you bought them.
I’ve just never bought a cymbal and thought, “It sounds pretty good now. I bet it will sound perfect after I get 10 years worth of gunk in all the grooves of this thing!”
I have a 24" Hollow logo Zildjian Ride Cymbal from the 70s and it was green when I bought it. I played it for a few months like that thinking it took that long to get that way so I'll leave it but eventually I just felt it was too muffled and the overtones were not right so I cleaned it. Now it rings true and sounds much more pleasing to my ears. I think that dirty cymbals are appreciated more for the look like a relic guitar. For this reason I feel the drummers that prefer them are a bit tone deaf, probably can't match pich when singing and would have a horrible time playing a wind instrument or stringed instrument with any sort of listenable intonation.
I don't think anybody buys a cymbal thinking "In another 40 years, once this cymbal gets all gunked up with dirt and grime and cigarette smoke, that it will sound PERFECT!" ;-)
Some prefer the dull dry sound of a dirty cymbal in a jazz setting
@@BrianStephensOfficial I honestly am pretty sure that most jazz drummers do exactly this. Dirty cymbals sound great for that style
@@KaiOwensDrums So jazz drummers should never buy/use new cymbals? *Somebody* call Zildjian!!!! ;-)
@@wisheye1 And what I LOVE about this video is that everybody gets to express their opinions here, regardless of how much I agree / disagree. All I'm asking is that you question your own opinion and test that out. After testing my own opinion out, I found that I needed to change it (and that was a LOT harder than I'm making it seem)
Circular motion...? Didn't see any. 😁
Mostly circular. “With the groves” is what I probably should have said.
I've never been one to play for advertising a company...hence I dont care bout leaving their large logos on...perhaps if they want to pay me to endorse..lol . Second, tho I'm not a sound physics major, any paint/stain/ink on a cymbal has to do some degree of muting or tone interference. I love just seeing shininess without some dark blob on my precious noisemakers !
They don't pay me to do it but I have been a Paiste Artist Endorser since 1997. So, those logos usually stay put but the other cymbals I have in my studio's collection, from other manufacturers, very quickly get their logos taken off (both for aesthetic and more obvious reasons).
My question is did that green stuff come of after a while ?
The green came off but the dark spots didn't lighten up. That's just the results of heavy oxidation. THe green gunk muted the cymbal sound but the discoloration had no real effect on the tone. Just the looks.
I've had newer cymbals that had way more green on them that came off completely. (The cymbal in this video is at least 40 years old) Because the oxidation and resulting gunk had not been sitting on there for decades, those cymbals eventually ended up looking like brand new. (Video of that coming soon)
Thank you for answering my question and I'll be waiting for that video
Hey sorry to bother you again but how could I contact you to have a private conversation I need to ask you some questions
11:40 b4
12:13 After
The trick is too have doubles...one that you keep clean/shined up, and let the second age and dull. ;)
I *LOVE* that idea!!
Shiggy the Shine 😂
Yeah man!!
Varies cymbal to cymbal from my experiences and I only play vintage cymbals .....some were better before being cleaned some not! I have some old Zildjians that I am afraid to clean because ya can't go back.
Thanks for weighing in! I'm about to do a video on cleaning an early 60's Zildjian ride cymbal with about 40 years worth of attic grime all over it. It's just my opinion that all that dirt & gunk is creating a story we tell ourselves about how it makes the cymbal sounds better. The real story is what happens with the oxidation of the metal and the changes that happen in that metal after decades of time spent vibrating regularly (being played vs sitting around). In most cases, again in my opinion, the grime is masking the true potential of that aged metal.
@@BrianStephensOfficial Thanks for the reply......They say that a clean vintage cymbal is as the maker wanted it to sound but as I mentioned some of my old cymbals I cleaned sounded better before.
Will check out your new vid!
I have a set of paiste 2000 sound reflection symbols that are extremely dirty.
What is the best cleaning solution to get rid of the dirt and grime
Well, you’re looking at a video about it now. SessionAce.com/SHINE (I’ve been an artist endorser for Paiste since 1997. So, most of my cymbals that I own (and all of the ones I play live gigs with) are Paiste. This stuff works great on Paiste cymbals to get the dirt and grime off. If they’re REALLY paid, grab the “Sparkle Set” from Session Ace which includes the SHIMMER solution that gets a lot of the really stubborn, caked on stuff that SHINE may not pull off.
you raised the recording levels for the AFTER sound. When I EQ'd the BEFORE / AFTER volume, I can't tell the difference between the two!
Nope, no processing or volume automation done on any of the cymbal samples. The only processing done for this video is on the shotgun mic used for the voice.
Great video man thanks!
Thanks! Glad you dug it. Another one is coming VERY SOON!! (A vintage 1965 Zildjian A ride cymbal)
I'd like to use that brush and at the top of the sink my help clean it better
Ugh the way it was grinding on the sink 🤦and it looks like you have to empty a lot of the cleaner from the bottle.
It’s much worse on mic than it was in the room.
DIRTY FAR BETTERRRRRR.
It's all about what you like, I guess.
I agree
@@voldmerot Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Right?
You ruined a perfectly playable - as a ride- and made an obtrusive crash from it !
Geez, tell me how you really feel. 😉 That cymbal has made its way into a couple dozen albums since this video was filmed. So, I think it’s pretty ok with its fate.
That is one dry A
Dirty cymbals sound dirty and duller. I don't see how dirt can enhance the sound.
I concur.
EASY ON THE LOGOS 😂
More overtones after cleaning.. More of a crash/ride to me.
Definitely more overtones and closer to the original sound that someone would've had heard when they originally bought their cymbal new.
Oh great just clean my symbols now I gotta use moon gel…jk
oO worries. I often add a small piece of gaff tape to shorten the decay of my cymbal when I'm recording.
No, they do not
Succinct… I like it! 👍🏼👍🏼
Cymbal porn! Even the bow chicka wow wow music. Lol
Had a FAR better ride sound before cleaning, and a FAR better crash sound after cleaning. In terms of bell sound, I give the edge to the cleaned cymbal also.
But generally, I don't think it's a great cymbal. As a crash, it's too thick. As a ride, it's too small. A lot of heavy crashes and crash/rides land in this area.
In this case, the patina made for a better ride because the original bow sound is too forward, pingy, piercing, fatiguing, and aggressive. At the same time, it made the cymbal more difficult to crash, so you got more of an unpleasant gong along the edge.
Patina (or the lack of it) doesn't magically make a cymbal sound better or worse. It changes the response in predictable ways. Here it made a mediocre cymbal (not in terms of material. A thick 18" crash isn't a great concept. It might work good as a hi-hat bottom, however) sound better in some ways and worse in others. How much patina is ideal is entirely situational.
The more I look at & play this cymbal , the more is seems like it was meant to be an 18" marching crash. Definitely has that vibe, especially after I cleaned it.
@@BrianStephensOfficial Makes sense. I use one-half of a symphonic cymbal pair as a hi-hat bottom.
Too clean. 😁 Actually it affects the harmonics in the sustain. Recorded as samples up close an old greasy cymbal has a bit of difference in the sustain.
I can agree with everything you just said. I just don't know anyone who has bought a cymbal thinking "In 30-40 years, once this cymbal is all gunked up with dirt and grime, then I'll *really* love how it sounds."
@@BrianStephensOfficial Thanks for the video, I was looking to clean my cymbals after too much exposure. Few hours and 2 cymbals crash ride and K dark crash still has old sweat marks. But managed to clean the dirt off it. Still sounds good. Could call it My “custom” cymbals with finger marks. The Sabain cleaner i have doesn’t work well with brass, copper alloys from paiste and the K custom still with dark patches. Still have to clean the hoops.
@@BrianStephensOfficial cause 440 hz sucks
if a dirty cymbal sounded better cymbal companies would sell dirty cymbals.
I tend to agree.
I had to wire brush with a grinder (lightly) to get the green crap off .... people advise against it because you'll take the finish off but these are 30 year old cymbals..the finish was already long gone ,but now they shine.
I really wish you would have known about this new product I just came out with called Session Ace SHIMMER before you took a grinder & brush to that cymbal. This new stuff gets any of that green crud off. Maybe I’ll post a video of that soon.
I just took a whole rack of cymbals that a buddy of mine had that were full of green crud and, with some SHIMMER and a little “elbow grease”, I got every speck of that crud off.
@@BrianStephensOfficial me too man...so if i were to order a bottle,for mostly older cymbals,non-brilliant finishes...do you rec the bottle of Shine or Shimmer?
@@darklight4815 For cymbals that aren't caked with green gunk, SHINE is perfect. But, I came up with SHIMMER precisely for cymbals afflicted with the "green crud". It will get almost any crud off of any cymbal. But if you're not sure which to get, that's why we put together the SPARKLE SET (sessionace.com/product/session-ace-sparkle-set/). The set contains 8oz. bottles of both cleaners with a textured scrubbing glove and the microfiber drying towel.
@@BrianStephensOfficial right on..ok thanks for the info,i appreciate it!
Please, it's pronounced "pàtina", not "patìna"
You do realize that I'm from the Southern U.S., right? We pronounce almost everything different from everyone else! ;-)
I think people who like their cymbals to patina are just lazy. Don't wanna clean their cymbals, its a lot of work. Don't wash their car either, let it patina, looks better don't wash it 😁
Yeah, might be time to knock the patina off my truck, too. ;-)
Nah, patina gives it a totally different sound which is desirable in a lot of settings
4:06 Suddenly becomes erotic video, BG music and all lol
Epic fail video. They only thing that mattered was playing the different strike sounds back to back and didn't. The only one was a hard strike that STILL had some talking between and the hit on the clean cymbol was much harder.
They don't call it "drum porn" for nothing, right?! ;-)
I look forward to seeing your own 'clean or dirty" cymbal comparison video after the holidays, DR.
I liked the way it crashed dirty
And that's totally fine. Check out the new video where I play a very dirty cymbal on a bunch of music, clean it, and then play all of those same tunes: ua-cam.com/video/-UAPfwxeOFU/v-deo.html
WHAT!!!! ???
Who’s on 1st?