Great reminder that we all bump into hidden attachments from time to time. Instead of staying in the suffering the suffering can be used to identify what we need to let go of next. The body is certainly a tough one. Glad to see Rich is doing well.
Hi David. Yes, watching physical pain turn into suffering as attachment and stories are created, is a great pointer to the need to engage some "letting go" practices to de-energize those stories. Those practices are described in several other comments. As far as Rich's recovery, he detailed the malady and recovery in a response to Jan Reed, below: Hola Jan. It was complicated. Shingles manifested in January and lasted three weeks with treatment. Then, a few days later, they returned via Kaposi varicelliform eruption. Kapsoi varicelliform eruption sounds like a speed metal band, and it almost killed me at six weeks old or so, then returned at age of 52, which I realized while meditating:) I went to the doc and told them what it was and they were amazed. They had misdiagnosed it, but that small still voice is never wrong :) Then nerve pain until July. Acupuncture was great for the neuralgia. All of it an incredible gift. I am back in the pool and on the bike. As always, great to hear from you. stillness
Hi k833katt. Great that you found it so useful. It is an important approach to define how we create our stories about our suffering and how we can work with them. stillness
Hi T P. Great that it was so useful for you. JIC, if you look under "Show More" above, or in any of my vids, you see links to all of my work, all free in some format. stillness
Hi Gary, Rich The reminder that there is “nobody there” is extremely powerful. It collapses all arguments - not just intellectually but actually. BUT clearly not - since I have a question! ☺ I still struggle with living through the interaction with others who have no idea of nonduality and as a consequence they see “me” as the root of something - in this case something negative. This then draws me back into a sense of the “I” again - all of sudden I have an ego because one has been projected onto me from the “outside”. This happens all the time at work (which implies I’m crap at my job - haha). How to deal with a projection of “my” behavior, which is entirely founded on doing the best I can, from another? I know the idea of doing your duty from the Bhagavad Gita - and that’s precisely what I’m trying to do. Please help me through this one. I know I’m not getting it. Thanks so much and happy holidays! Mandy
Hi Mandy. It is a great part of the work, to just be present and open, when others really have no understanding of what your state is, or what you are working on. The more that you try to "make" them understand, if you do, the less they will understand, and the more certain they will be to "label" you and try to invalidate you, or what you are working on. When i started, "meditation" and "yoga" were on the "lunatic" fringe of most folks' intellectual understanding, and i almost lost my second job when my boss found out i was teaching yoga. So i just showed up 100% for my job and worked as fully present as i could, and let go of any expectation of reward for my efforts. i did not proselytize or even talk about my practices in the workplace, although i did start teaching yoga in the local Y and at a church, and some folk came from my workplace, including one of the second level managers who was ultimately a big advocate for what i was doing. The more and more still i got, the more present i was in meetings and in all of my tasks, and the more innovative and creative were what manifested through me. Eventually, i appeared to be the "smartest person in the room", even if i wasn't because i was the only one that was there for the entire meeting...everyone else was off in their heads for most of the meeting and missed a lot of what was going on. Importantly, let go of what you think somebody else is thinking about you. we always believe it is about us, when often it has nothing to do with us, or even what is happening at the moment. you might find the video "Guessing Others' Minds Through Mirrors" @ ua-cam.com/video/f160XflnNLg/v-deo.html useful. stillness
Gary Thanks a lot. I forgot about the idea of letting go of expectation. Of course, that sits alongside the idea of duty. Thanks! I watched the 'Mirrors' clip. I have watched it before (i think I've watched mostly all the vids and read most of your blog!) and it really helped. Please can I ask one question. In the clip, you say, and i paraphrase, that it is impossible to know if someone has no thoughts through their actions. If they are at the stage where they have no thoughts, does that not make them behave "lovingly", compassionately? Is this a misconception? Or does their brain still receive signals that manifest into any type of behaviour? Thank you again.
Hi Mandy. Yes, that was Ramana's assertion, and i've found it to be correct as it applied to that questioner. It is important to remember that "Talks" from which this was taken, were a day-by-day capturing of whatever question was asked that day, and then writing it down in English and having Ramana review every day's discussions as he read English fluently. Ramana did not give the same advice to each questioner, which would require an egoic management process, to ensure consistency. For this questioner, that is the response that arose, organically, and naturally, "through" Ramana. For a questioner who was much further along in their process in the "no thoughts" state, it is likely that a very different answer would have emerged, quite possibly no answer at all, as if they were really that far along, that question wouldn't even have emerged as it is obvious to them, just in meeting another folk at that level, that they were also in that space. This knowledge doesn't depend on some superficial assessment of exactly how they were acting, compassionately or not, quiet or shouting, actively or passively, how long their hair was, how they were dressed, etc., but from a deep feeling sense of exactly what level was manifesting underneath all of that. It's something like if someone claimed they were a concert violinist or pianist, another person of the same level could rapidly tell if that was the case, no matter their external behavior, as soon as they touched a violin. stillness
Iam carefull, to read the room before I relate to people on this level, most peoples ego"s cannot let them enquire into these teachings, keep your head down when this is the case, above all do not judge the ignorance of others,
Yes! Such grace to fall to pieces :) And so smithereened was I even in this video that I mistook Latin for Greek: "Amor fati" is Latin. Gratitude even for that error! Thanks.
Hi trissuper1. Great that you found the dialogue so insightful and helpful. Our attachments are many and some are so deeply hidden that it requires suffering to disclose where and what they are. The blogpost "Surrendering the "i", letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html goes through some really useful techniques for working with those attachments and letting go of them when they are discovered. stillness and an end to suffering
Hi Joe. Great that it was useful for you. As you can see in some of the comments, there are some very useful approaches for letting go of the stories that turn pain into suffering @ "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html. JIC, if you look under "Show More" above, or in any of my youTube videos, you'll find links to all of my stuff, all free in some format. stillness and an end to suffering gary
Hi Michael. Wonderful that it was useful for you. As mentioned above, there are some powerful techniques for dealing with the stories which are what turn pain into suffering @ "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html. These are very simple, and easy techniques to use with any stories and any attachments. stillness and an end to suffering
So on target your pointing about surrender. Some words, terms, explanations etc. work like 'codes' that open up imaginary lockers to other possibilities of 'understanding'! Many thanks!
Hi Allan. Great that you found it useful. Tks for the comment and interest. JIC, links to all of my stuff, all free in some format, are under "Show More" above. stillness and the end of suffering
Hi Gary, can I ask you something? What are the effects of suffering? I understand you guys when you say "... can be important on the path of nondual awakening." That is very hard for me to accept it. But I get it. Still, my question is more concrete: How does it change me? Why would it make me better? Does it really deepen us? I don´t feel deeper or more compassionate just because I am suffering... I just feel more miserable. I have come to a point where I find this idea (i.e. suffering is better for you) as an unbereable contradiction. Do you know what I mean? Am I missing something in the enlightenment equation? I would love to read yourt thoughts on these questions. Thanks Gary.
Hi caviper1. Unless you have suffered to some significant level, for some significant time, you won't have enough interest or incentive to persist in all of the hard work that is necessary to reach the state of nondual awakening. If you have suffered "enough", then you will be motivated to see who/what/where it is that is suffering, and then persevere in the deconstruction of those egos/Is/caviper1s (there are lots of them) that create suffering from pain. Pain is what the body's nerves produce to protect the body; suffering is what the egos/Is/caviper1s create about it. Pain is natural and necessary; suffering is optional. True, unconditional, compassion will arise only when the egos/Is/caviper1s standing in its way with their agendas, stories and fears are gone. stillness gary
I get it Gary. These are not good news for me, but I get it. One more thing Gary: Would you recommend me what to do in terms of the hard work I must do to reach the state of nonduality? I do Metta and body meditations. They work as an analgesic, pretty much like when I used to drink. Both methods are useful for quieting the mind. I don´t drink anymore. I prefer meditating. But is there something else you would recommend to speed up the process of liberation and/or to make it less painful (i.e. less suffering)? Thank you Gary. I am also a Scientist btw, from Mexico, and my mind is a complete bitch...
Hi caviper1. Yes, if you look under "Show more" above, you'll see links to all of my work, all free in some format. The first thing is to download a copy of my first book, Happiness Beyond Thought. If you want hard copy, Amazon has it. The second thing is to c/o three blogposts, 1) What is the 'Direct Path' to nondual awakening? What is self-inquiry? @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-is-direct-path-to-nondual.html, 2) Letting go of your attachments to awaken...why/how/when @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html 3) Feeling your way to nondual awakening @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2015/04/feeling-your-way-to-nondual-awakening.htm The third thing is to do the meditations in the Guided Meditation playlist @ ua-cam.com/play/PLuH37Fyz9VEMrD8dcreiCNKGROGlOENhL.html That is a much deeper, stronger and direct approach than your Metta and body meditations and if you persevere in doing it, your mind will fairly soon be much less "of a complete bitch". stillness gary
Hi John. Great that it helped shift that perspective. Now something can be done about it. BTW, as mentioned in some other comments, there are some powerful techniques for dealing with the stories which are what turn pain into suffering @ "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html. These are very simple, and easy techniques to use with any stories and any attachments. stillness and the end of suffering.
Hi. What about people that born handycap? They feel suffering whole life. Or what about a child that dies too early? His parents feel suffering whole life. Or what about an atheletic person that has a tragic event that puts her on a wheelchair for the rest of her life? There are N examples where the idea of suffering as a way to learn, at first glance, makes little or no sense at all. It seems that we all live in the darkness walking with our hands groping without really understand why we colide and fall...
Hi Marco. we don't have any idea what someone with a handicap, losing a child early, or an athlete who has a tragic event that puts them in a wheelchair, feels. That is just our projection of what we imagine they are feeling based on how we imagine we would feel in the same situation. i was a very good golfer and spent countless hours practicing and doing it - it was who i was. Then my hand got mangled in a garage door opener and that was the end of golf. It was one of the most useful things that happened in my life as far as awakening, as i saw clearly that i was not this body, or this mangled hand, or how low my golf score was. i just let go of all of it and discovered that i was something totally untouched by this. i have a cousin who was born deformed and crippled with no ability to move his legs. All he could do was crawl on the ground and drag his legs behind him. But he didn't buy into the stories about his impossible situation, and he now walks easily and is one of the happiest folks you could meet. It is hard to even pick him out @ family picnics. One of my best friends died of ALS, and i spent a lot of time w/him during the process. Towards the end, as his body continued to lose its functions, he said he couldn't believe how beautiful life is, and how everything the spiritual texts say about bliss and transcendence, is true. we don't "live in the darkness". If you learn to let go of your attachment to stories about how things could have been, or how unfortunate i am, or how unfair life is, or why did this happen to me?, etc., it is amazing what can manifest. stillness and an end to suffering
Great explanation Gary. But does the hypothesis of 'Karma' fit into all this at all? Could it still be that all so called life events that Marco brings up are an outcome of past good/bad actions [in this life or the previous ones - assuming there is rebirth etc, although I must say that the supposition of previous lives can explain situations for an infant [since his action in the current life are next to none!]. I see that even if Karma were true, life events can still have an educative/learning value and get rid of our illusion of control! Would you please share your thoughts on this? Thank you.
I agree that one cannot know how the other feels exactly. I picked up these situations because I see how much sadness, people that I know, shows/express to me, they cry, they say how much unfair the life seems to be. Is like it's missing a big WHY - an enlightment.
Hi Sidtube 10. Nonduality really makes belief in karma/sin and good/bad deeds irrelevant. The blogpost "no sin, no karma, no good deeds, no bad deeds" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/no-sin-no-karma-no-good-deeds-no-bad.html and the "Free Will, Control, Predetermination" playlist on this channel @ ua-cam.com/channels/MSnyxnteEx7IOPIFkfh3og.html will give you much discussion on the issue. If there is no one in control, and everything is predetermined, the idea of punishment for past misdeeds in a "prior life" just makes no sense. stillness and an end to suffering gary
Hi Marco. That is what the video was all about, the recognition/"enlightenment" that their beliefs and attachments are what turns their pain into suffering. Life "is what it is" and arguing with that, or creating stories like "it isn't fair" is what causes their suffering. The magic cure is to look at those stories and attachments and let go of them with the techniques described in the blogposts "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html. These are simple, straightforward, and well-documented techniques to use with any stories and attachments and have worked for many, many folk in the same, or worse, situations and circumstances. The pain might not go away, but the suffering can. stillness and the end of suffering
Great reminder that we all bump into hidden attachments from time to time. Instead of staying in the suffering the suffering can be used to identify what we need to let go of next. The body is certainly a tough one. Glad to see Rich is doing well.
Hi David. Yes, watching physical pain turn into suffering as attachment and stories are created, is a great pointer to the need to engage some "letting go" practices to de-energize those stories. Those practices are described in several other comments.
As far as Rich's recovery, he detailed the malady and recovery in a response to Jan Reed, below:
Hola Jan. It was complicated. Shingles manifested in January and lasted three weeks with treatment. Then, a few days later, they returned via Kaposi varicelliform eruption. Kapsoi varicelliform eruption sounds like a speed metal band, and it almost killed me at six weeks old or so, then returned at age of 52, which I realized while meditating:) I went to the doc and told them what it was and they were amazed. They had misdiagnosed it, but that small still voice is never wrong :) Then nerve pain until July. Acupuncture was great for the neuralgia. All of it an incredible gift. I am back in the pool and on the bike.
As always, great to hear from you.
stillness
'Why suffering? - Because there is something still there to be surrendered' - Rang so true! Thank you.
HI Sidtube 10. Yes, it is a powerful message, and a great checkpoint from an unexpected source. Great that you found it useful. stillness
'To show that there's nobody there...' Wow, thank you, yes!
So appreciate that you share this dialogue 🙏❤🙏
Hi k833katt. Great that you found it so useful. It is an important approach to define how we create our stories about our suffering and how we can work with them. stillness
@@GaryWeber it was such a relief to notice reality is always preferable to the stories I tell myself about it.
All of today's questions answered. Thank you.
Hi T P. Great that it was so useful for you. JIC, if you look under "Show More" above, or in any of my vids, you see links to all of my work, all free in some format. stillness
very insightfull! thanks gary an rich
Hi ramiro costa. Great that you found it useful and so insightful. Gratitude for your feedback. stillness and an end to suffering.
Hi Gary, Rich
The reminder that there is “nobody there” is extremely powerful. It collapses all arguments - not just intellectually but actually. BUT clearly not - since I have a question! ☺
I still struggle with living through the interaction with others who have no idea of nonduality and as a consequence they see “me” as the root of something - in this case something negative. This then draws me back into a sense of the “I” again - all of sudden I have an ego because one has been projected onto me from the “outside”. This happens all the time at work (which implies I’m crap at my job - haha). How to deal with a projection of “my” behavior, which is entirely founded on doing the best I can, from another? I know the idea of doing your duty from the Bhagavad Gita - and that’s precisely what I’m trying to do.
Please help me through this one. I know I’m not getting it.
Thanks so much and happy holidays!
Mandy
Hi Mandy. It is a great part of the work, to just be present and open, when others really have no understanding of what your state is, or what you are working on. The more that you try to "make" them understand, if you do, the less they will understand, and the more certain they will be to "label" you and try to invalidate you, or what you are working on.
When i started, "meditation" and "yoga" were on the "lunatic" fringe of most folks' intellectual understanding, and i almost lost my second job when my boss found out i was teaching yoga. So i just showed up 100% for my job and worked as fully present as i could, and let go of any expectation of reward for my efforts.
i did not proselytize or even talk about my practices in the workplace, although i did start teaching yoga in the local Y and at a church, and some folk came from my workplace, including one of the second level managers who was ultimately a big advocate for what i was doing.
The more and more still i got, the more present i was in meetings and in all of my tasks, and the more innovative and creative were what manifested through me. Eventually, i appeared to be the "smartest person in the room", even if i wasn't because i was the only one that was there for the entire meeting...everyone else was off in their heads for most of the meeting and missed a lot of what was going on.
Importantly, let go of what you think somebody else is thinking about you. we always believe it is about us, when often it has nothing to do with us, or even what is happening at the moment. you might find the video "Guessing Others' Minds Through Mirrors" @ ua-cam.com/video/f160XflnNLg/v-deo.html useful.
stillness
Gary
Thanks a lot.
I forgot about the idea of letting go of expectation. Of course, that sits alongside the idea of duty. Thanks!
I watched the 'Mirrors' clip. I have watched it before (i think I've watched mostly all the vids and read most of your blog!) and it really helped. Please can I ask one question. In the clip, you say, and i paraphrase, that it is impossible to know if someone has no thoughts through their actions. If they are at the stage where they have no thoughts, does that not make them behave "lovingly", compassionately? Is this a misconception? Or does their brain still receive signals that manifest into any type of behaviour?
Thank you again.
Hi Mandy. Yes, that was Ramana's assertion, and i've found it to be correct as it applied to that questioner. It is important to remember that "Talks" from which this was taken, were a day-by-day capturing of whatever question was asked that day, and then writing it down in English and having Ramana review every day's discussions as he read English fluently.
Ramana did not give the same advice to each questioner, which would require an egoic management process, to ensure consistency. For this questioner, that is the response that arose, organically, and naturally, "through" Ramana.
For a questioner who was much further along in their process in the "no thoughts" state, it is likely that a very different answer would have emerged, quite possibly no answer at all, as if they were really that far along, that question wouldn't even have emerged as it is obvious to them, just in meeting another folk at that level, that they were also in that space.
This knowledge doesn't depend on some superficial assessment of exactly how they were acting, compassionately or not, quiet or shouting, actively or passively, how long their hair was, how they were dressed, etc., but from a deep feeling sense of exactly what level was manifesting underneath all of that.
It's something like if someone claimed they were a concert violinist or pianist, another person of the same level could rapidly tell if that was the case, no matter their external behavior, as soon as they touched a violin.
stillness
Beautiful question and answers. It's great to see a real dialogue in the UA-cam comments section!
Iam carefull, to read the room before I relate to people on this level, most peoples ego"s cannot let them enquire into these teachings, keep your head down when this is the case, above all do not judge the ignorance of others,
Amazing
Wow! Great that you fell to pieces Rich. Powerful testimony.
Yes! Such grace to fall to pieces :) And so smithereened was I even in this video that I mistook Latin for Greek: "Amor fati" is Latin. Gratitude even for that error!
Thanks.
The way you and Gary say that if you suffer there is something that u have not surrendered yet, is very insightful and helpfull for me. Thank u !
Hi trissuper1. Great that you found the dialogue so insightful and helpful. Our attachments are many and some are so deeply hidden that it requires suffering to disclose where and what they are. The blogpost "Surrendering the "i", letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html
goes through some really useful techniques for working with those attachments and letting go of them when they are discovered. stillness and an end to suffering
thank u Gary!
It's a living hell Rich (shingles) I feel you buddy! Love you guys!
Great talk. Thanks!
Hi Joe. Great that it was useful for you.
As you can see in some of the comments, there are some very useful approaches for letting go of the stories that turn pain into suffering @ "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html.
JIC, if you look under "Show More" above, or in any of my youTube videos, you'll find links to all of my stuff, all free in some format.
stillness and an end to suffering
gary
Many (many) thanks!
Hi Michael. Wonderful that it was useful for you. As mentioned above, there are some powerful techniques for dealing with the stories which are what turn pain into suffering @ "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html. These are very simple, and easy techniques to use with any stories and any attachments.
stillness and an end to suffering
So on target your pointing about surrender.
Some words, terms, explanations etc. work like 'codes' that open up imaginary lockers to other possibilities of 'understanding'!
Many thanks!
Excellent.
Hi Allan. Great that you found it useful. Tks for the comment and interest. JIC, links to all of my stuff, all free in some format, are under "Show More" above. stillness and the end of suffering
No way, I didn’t know that was my professor until 2 mins in...
Hi Tommy Salerno...Yep, that's him...BTW, if you look under "Show More" above you'll see links to all of this work, all free in some format. stillness
Hi Gary, can I ask you something? What are the effects of suffering? I understand you guys when you say "... can be important on the path of nondual awakening." That is very hard for me to accept it. But I get it. Still, my question is more concrete: How does it change me? Why would it make me better? Does it really deepen us? I don´t feel deeper or more compassionate just because I am suffering... I just feel more miserable. I have come to a point where I find this idea (i.e. suffering is better for you) as an unbereable contradiction. Do you know what I mean? Am I missing something in the enlightenment equation? I would love to read yourt thoughts on these questions. Thanks Gary.
Hi caviper1. Unless you have suffered to some significant level, for some significant time, you won't have enough interest or incentive to persist in all of the hard work that is necessary to reach the state of nondual awakening.
If you have suffered "enough", then you will be motivated to see who/what/where it is that is suffering, and then persevere in the deconstruction of those egos/Is/caviper1s (there are lots of them) that create suffering from pain.
Pain is what the body's nerves produce to protect the body; suffering is what the egos/Is/caviper1s create about it. Pain is natural and necessary; suffering is optional.
True, unconditional, compassion will arise only when the egos/Is/caviper1s standing in its way with their agendas, stories and fears are gone.
stillness
gary
I get it Gary. These are not good news for me, but I get it. One more thing Gary: Would you recommend me what to do in terms of the hard work I must do to reach the state of nonduality? I do Metta and body meditations. They work as an analgesic, pretty much like when I used to drink. Both methods are useful for quieting the mind. I don´t drink anymore. I prefer meditating. But is there something else you would recommend to speed up the process of liberation and/or to make it less painful (i.e. less suffering)? Thank you Gary. I am also a Scientist btw, from Mexico, and my mind is a complete bitch...
Hi caviper1. Yes, if you look under "Show more" above, you'll see links to all of my work, all free in some format.
The first thing is to download a copy of my first book, Happiness Beyond Thought. If you want hard copy, Amazon has it.
The second thing is to c/o three blogposts,
1) What is the 'Direct Path' to nondual awakening? What is self-inquiry? @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-is-direct-path-to-nondual.html,
2) Letting go of your attachments to awaken...why/how/when @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html
3) Feeling your way to nondual awakening @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2015/04/feeling-your-way-to-nondual-awakening.htm
The third thing is to do the meditations in the Guided Meditation playlist @ ua-cam.com/play/PLuH37Fyz9VEMrD8dcreiCNKGROGlOENhL.html
That is a much deeper, stronger and direct approach than your Metta and body meditations and if you persevere in doing it, your mind will fairly soon be much less "of a complete bitch".
stillness
gary
Thank you very much Gary. This is very good guidance. Will follow steps systematically. I´ll comeback with feedback. Thank you again!
@@caviper1 have you found new vistas along your journey?
Until I saw this, I assumed that suffering was always useless. I now see how it an be useful.
Hi John.
Great that it helped shift that perspective. Now something can be done about it.
BTW, as mentioned in some other comments, there are some powerful techniques for dealing with the stories which are what turn pain into suffering @ "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html. These are very simple, and easy techniques to use with any stories and any attachments.
stillness and the end of suffering.
Hi. What about people that born handycap? They feel suffering whole life. Or what about a child that dies too early? His parents feel suffering whole life. Or what about an atheletic person that has a tragic event that puts her on a wheelchair for the rest of her life? There are N examples where the idea of suffering as a way to learn, at first glance, makes little or no sense at all. It seems that we all live in the darkness walking with our hands groping without really understand why we colide and fall...
Hi Marco. we don't have any idea what someone with a handicap, losing a child early, or an athlete who has a tragic event that puts them in a wheelchair, feels. That is just our projection of what we imagine they are feeling based on how we imagine we would feel in the same situation.
i was a very good golfer and spent countless hours practicing and doing it - it was who i was. Then my hand got mangled in a garage door opener and that was the end of golf. It was one of the most useful things that happened in my life as far as awakening, as i saw clearly that i was not this body, or this mangled hand, or how low my golf score was. i just let go of all of it and discovered that i was something totally untouched by this.
i have a cousin who was born deformed and crippled with no ability to move his legs. All he could do was crawl on the ground and drag his legs behind him. But he didn't buy into the stories about his impossible situation, and he now walks easily and is one of the happiest folks you could meet. It is hard to even pick him out @ family picnics.
One of my best friends died of ALS, and i spent a lot of time w/him during the process. Towards the end, as his body continued to lose its functions, he said he couldn't believe how beautiful life is, and how everything the spiritual texts say about bliss and transcendence, is true.
we don't "live in the darkness". If you learn to let go of your attachment to stories about how things could have been, or how unfortunate i am, or how unfair life is, or why did this happen to me?, etc., it is amazing what can manifest.
stillness and an end to suffering
Great explanation Gary. But does the hypothesis of 'Karma' fit into all this at all? Could it still be that all so called life events that Marco brings up are an outcome of past good/bad actions [in this life or the previous ones - assuming there is rebirth etc, although I must say that the supposition of previous lives can explain situations for an infant [since his action in the current life are next to none!]. I see that even if Karma were true, life events can still have an educative/learning value and get rid of our illusion of control! Would you please share your thoughts on this? Thank you.
I agree that one cannot know how the other feels exactly. I picked up these situations because I see how much sadness, people that I know, shows/express to me, they cry, they say how much unfair the life seems to be. Is like it's missing a big WHY - an enlightment.
Hi Sidtube 10. Nonduality really makes belief in karma/sin and good/bad deeds irrelevant. The blogpost "no sin, no karma, no good deeds, no bad deeds" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/no-sin-no-karma-no-good-deeds-no-bad.html and the "Free Will, Control, Predetermination" playlist on this channel @ ua-cam.com/channels/MSnyxnteEx7IOPIFkfh3og.html will give you much discussion on the issue.
If there is no one in control, and everything is predetermined, the idea of punishment for past misdeeds in a "prior life" just makes no sense.
stillness and an end to suffering
gary
Hi Marco. That is what the video was all about, the recognition/"enlightenment" that their beliefs and attachments are what turns their pain into suffering. Life "is what it is" and arguing with that, or creating stories like "it isn't fair" is what causes their suffering.
The magic cure is to look at those stories and attachments and let go of them with the techniques described in the blogposts "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html and in "letting go of your attachments to surrender" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html. These are simple, straightforward, and well-documented techniques to use with any stories and attachments and have worked for many, many folk in the same, or worse, situations and circumstances.
The pain might not go away, but the suffering can.
stillness and the end of suffering