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When/where/why you get stuck on the "path"
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- Dialogue between Gary Weber and Rich Doyle on traps and when, why and where folk often get stuck on the nondual path. Watching for fears and the "I"'s using intellectual analysis to delay the process. The importance of relying on feeling your way and DIY. You don't need to suffer to be human. Using self-referential thoughts and suffering as your gauges on progress. Getting trapped in "attainment".
A complete transcription of this dialogue is available in "Into the Stillness: Dialogues on Awakening Beyond Thought" available on amazon.com and non-dualitypress.org in hardcopy and kindle versions.
An .mp3 of this dialogue is @ happiness-beyond-thought.com/d...
Useful links for more information:
Gary Weber
Website: www.happiness-beyond-thought.com
Blog: happinessbeyondthought.blogspo...
UA-cam Channel: / gudakesha7
MP3 Downloads: happiness-beyond-thought.com/d...
Soundcloud Channel: / gary_weber
Facebook: / gary.weber.528
See happiness-beyond-thought.com/a... for more links to interviews and articles and information.
Books
1) Happiness Beyond Thought: A Practical Guide to Awakening
Free Scribd.com version: www.scribd.com/doc/113131786/H...
Paperback version available on www.amazon.com
2) Dancing Beyond Thought: Bhagavad Gita Verses and Dialogues on Awakening
Free version: happiness-beyond-thought.com/d...
Amazon: www.amazon.com (Paperback & Kindle versions)
Video: • Dancing Beyond Thought...
3) Into the Stillness: Dialogues on Awakening Beyond Thought (with Rich Doyle)
New Harbinger Publications: www.newharbinger.com/stillness
Barnes and Noble: www.barnesandnoble.com
Amazon: www.amazon.com (Paperback & Kindle versions)
4) Evolving Beyond Thought: Updating Your Brain's Software - Amazon paperback. Blogpost "Updating Your Brain's Software" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspo..."
Panel Discussions
Science and Nonduality Conference 2013:
"Filling in the Details": • Filling In the Details...
"What is Enlightenment?": bcove.me/q81mq5iv
Interviews
BATGAP: batgap.com/gary-weber
Bloggingheads TV: bloggingheads.tv/videos/14840
Secular Buddhist: secularbuddhism.org/2014/04/27...
VoiceAmerica Business: www.voiceamerica.com/guest/290...
Rich Doyle
Website: mobiused.wordpress.com
Email: mobius@psu.edu
a total joy to listen to, are these two... just loving,respectful, natural rapport... I feel a little voyeuristic even, like peering in a window eavesdropping on two buddies having a yarn and a laugh- good thing is I always get a good belly laugh too!!! Thank you guys!
Hi gary, thanks for so,patiently sharing your viewpoint. It's a great help.
Thank you for your kindness and compassion.
Hi Jose Espinosa. Many thanks to you for your comment. stillness, love and letting go
Hi Iftah. If you look @ the vid "The wonderful surprises of awakening beyond thought", you'll see that both Rich and i experience sublime pleasures, even more intensely than "before". As Rich said "the joy and novelty of life only intensifies". That is true whether we're listening to music, seeing the sun glancing off leaves, or the wind moving in the trees. The mundane becomes sublime. my kids and grandkids were just here and we went "wild" over "Croczilla", shouting & laughing. stillness
sounds great!
thanks
I seriously cannot stop my thoughts and feelings for anymore than about one second after years of being around this stuff
Hi again, Nath C. It depends on what "stuff" you've been around and what practices you've been doing and how diligent you are in your practices. What practices have you been doing and how many hours/day do you do them and for how many years? Self-inquiry definitely works if you are diligent and persistent. It produces changes in the types and energies of thoughts and a reduction in anxiety fairly quickly, often within 5 or 6 wks of 1 hr/day...more results follow with more practice. stillness
Thanks for the videos Gary! Was wondering if at some point you could make one that went into the process of identifying and letting go of attachments. I've heard you talk about this process you went through and have always been a bit confused on how one would do that. In my experience these deep attachments seem to be happening on a mostly unconscious level, and I am unable to "get at them". thanks again.
I came to this point, had 'everything' wasn't experiencing any problems and then some, but I didn't know why, I didn't feel human anymore because I just was not suffering anything like other people. I felt out of the mix of friends, family, world .So I tried to get rid of it! Almost managed it too. Now its been seen, it can just pass through
Its the prodical son parable, we have everything, then somehting wants to experience duality, realises its nothing and goes back to One. There is no mistake.
Good talk, thank you
Hi TrueNature. Great insight. Most folk find nonduality such a compelling state that they don't try to return/leave it, but despite their best efforts, instead lose it and can't hold it. Others who are persisting/staying in that state, rarely consider leaving it as it is so sweet.
However, a very few have enough of a residual "I" resisting the process which tries to "get back". Their experience matches yours, i.e. they try to return but can't really "manage" to pull it off. In order to be in the nondual state "persistently", the "I" is so fragmented and scattered that the brain, which loves the stillness, order, and peace of the nondual state, is "running the show". The I/doer isn't able to "manage" to get back.
The prodigal son parable is an interesting metaphor. As you say "There is no mistake." It is all about being Oneness. Great that you found the talk useful. Good direct, personal insights on your part. stillness
Hi Gary, thankyou for replying. Yes, I was very young and living with mum and dad when I had a rather spectacular awakening experience. I was in a total state of joy or bliss for some months after and then it just stopped as many experience. Mind comes back. After more than a year one day just sat down and meditation happened and I popped back into this joyful quiet state. which is beyond thought stream' so to speak. It is in fact easy if we just let it be. The mind likes to make a big song and dance ha. Mind is in service to the silence presence and when it isn't it causes trouble.like when the cat's away the mice will play. Ramanah has been so helpful in this. The mind is so powerful but it does not have authority as it is ultimately illusory.
Thanks again for this talk, most helpful.
Hi TrueNature. Great the discussion was useful for you. Strongly recommend Ramana's work. His "Talks with Ramana Maharshi" and "Who am I?" are both downloadable free and their website has many resources. Also, links to all of my "stuff", which is all free (unless you want a hard copy of a book where the publisher wants paid to print it) are under "Show More" above. you're doing really well with the work. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to let me know. stillness
Hi igor. What you are describing is exactly what drove me to this work in my 20s. Abstinence/chastity don't work; hormones and conditioning are too powerful and many "bad behaviors" manifest. Separate out what is hormonally-driven desire and what is thoughts about sex. Focus on what you can change - thoughts. See blogposts "What is the Direct Path to nondual awakening?", "Can you stop your "blah, blah" thoughts?" and "working w/I am not this body", Download my book, free. URLs in "About".
Hi Rajeev. Something else that may be helpful is that the Gita rarely prohibits an "object" of any sort. What it does urge is that one go beyond desire, fear, anger, craving, etc. It is the emotion that is the result of attachment to the object that is the problem. There are many verses in the Gita on everything being out of our control (see youTube video "you are not in control - Bhagavad Gita verses - Gary Weber"). we have no control over the events that arise, only our attachment to them.
Gary Weber well technically we don‘t even have control over our attachment to them right ? since everything is predetermined, as you often say, if we will be driven to get rid of our attachments or simply keep them is out of our control right ?
Hi Matthew. Great that you are finding the videos useful. we are planning on filming this week, so will put identifying and letting go of attachments on the list. In the meantime, you might check out the blogpost "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering". The URL is in the "About" info. It isn't exactly what you're asking, but it may be useful. If you have a copy of my book, free link in "About", you might c/o the "Nirvana Shatakam" as a guide to attachments to look for. stillness
Hi noarelax. Tks for the feedback. Sent it on to Rich who i'll be spending a few hours w/today, having some sushi, green tea and lots of laughs. stillness
Hi, Gary
What do you think of the role of sound in stilling thoughts or inducing certain states of consciousness? Sometimes when I have a hard time "settling down" during meditation, I put on ear phones and listen to a Tom Kenyon audio recording... like his "Aethos" sound meditation which he describes as an " interdimensional sound catalyst for the purpose of exploring non-dual states of consciousness." thanks, Marcie
The problem with talking about a "path" is it creates the illusion of psychological time. Just be here now!
Hey Rick and Gary,
Thanks for this video. I was wandering if you could enjoy any cultural stuff while in "no-thought". In terms of music I can understand if you could enjoy it as it is more primal any spontaneous but what about reading novels? watching films? Can they induce any pleasure? Also interesting if Rich and Gary have different answers
Thank you!
Iftah
Hi veggalam Vikram. A frequent phrase in cognitive neuroscience circles is that "you are your neurotransmitters/hormones". What actions you do are reinforced or inhibited by what types and amounts of neurochemicals the "brain" adds or takes away and where it does it. Even w/meditation, and the "transcendent" states, there is much work now showing that dopamine and different "opiods" are what drive those states. The brain chooses the best pleasure/pain alternative and reinforces that.
Just wanted to check on what you feel about preparation before self enquiry.i know that the bhagwat gita and vivekchoodamani talk explicitly about Vivek, vairagya, etc to be cultivated before one can launch oneself on the jnana path...I know people do this extensively for years .
Hi Marcie. Don't know Tom Kenyon's stuff, but sound, particularly the chanting/singing of it, is an incredibly powerful tool for awakening, particularly if the original Sanskrit, which is a phonically-tuned language is used. See my blogposts "Chanting for Awakening? How? Which chants?", and "Using simple chants meditatively for nondual awakening" - URL in "About", and the youTube videos "Using simple chants for nondual awakening", and "You are not in control - Bhagavad Gita verses". stillness
Thanks gary. I read bhagwan's comments on this which states some 'moral ' aspects are important . I think what preparation as commented by Shri Sankara does when you become morally a righteous person is to reduce self referential thoughts to an extent as you become more selfless which leads to a self enquiry journey which is easier. Did you when you started off your journey have a lot of emotions cropping up which were a detriment ?
Hi Rajeev. "Moral aspects" may make the self-inquiry journey easier, initially, as the Gita and other advaita texts state. i don't recall that Bhagavan focused on that. he did say that whatever happened, even sexually, was out of our control and that we should focus on attachment. There were many emotions in my journey. my work life was heavily fear-based, as i was deeply afraid that if was not successful that i would have to return to the dangerous coal mines in which my family worked.
Hi Gary, I am intrigued by our journey and your insights. my S.I. process is erratic because I had a traumatic childhood and still get flashbacks even after many decades. Nevertheless I don't want to remain stuck on this wheel of suffering. My question for you is will doing Self Inquiry as much as I am able heal the part of the brain (the amygdala) that causes the flashbacks? The mental health field has been very slow in recognizing cptsd and as with other diagnoses they either use drugs to suppress symptoms or employ coping mechanisms which I don't find especially helpful..Cures are rare. Psycho therapy causes retraumatization by dredging up the past. Am interested to know what your brain research may reveal on this subject. Thank you so much.
Hi Anne. I also had a very traumatic childhood which extended over my entire life. Yes, doing self-inquiry will heal the brain.
Due to the increased interest in this work, the volume of email has become unmanageable so the “1/1 email/Skype” program has been discontinued.
As there is so much material already available, the process can be done DIY, as was the intention. The blogposts, podcasts, interviews, books, videos, website, etc. are shown under "Show More" in any of my youTube videos, all free in some format.
The reason that it had to stop was that functionality had been lost in these hands which hurt constantly from so much typing and could hardly close or even "pinch". Even with that level of pain, the backlog kept growing. So on my doctor's, and wife's urging, it had to stop. The strong increase in interest was largely driven by the release of Robert Wright's, NYTimes best-selling "Why Buddhism Is True: The Science and Philosophy of Meditation and Enlightenment" in which "i" was featured.
As you've already read all of the material on my UA-cam channel, blog and books, it's not necessary to give you the typical recommendations.
Do your self-inquiry for 35 to 50 minutes per day and to put it into your day 5 or 6 times for 2 minutes. The best questions are "Where am I?, What is this?, Who hears?, When am I?". If you can work it in, twice a day is better. Three times is not. Perseverance and focus are the keys to success.
To deal with any "thoughts" and stories that come up, it is important to use the "letting go" practices described in "surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" and "letting go your attachments to awaken...why/how/when" which are time-tested and well documented.
A practice I am recommending a lot now is from Ramana's "Talks with Ramana Maharshi", #450:
She knows what is best and when and how to do it.
Leave everything entirely to Her.
Hers is the burden: you have no longer any cares.
All your cares are Hers.
Ramana used "He" but IME, it is all about compassion, support, teaching, caring, etc. which works better with She.
If you look immediately after this quote, Ramana says "Or, enquire to whom these questions arise. Dive deep in the Heart and remain as the Self. One of these two ways is open to the aspirant."
What I have found most powerful is to link these together with alternate nostril breathing. Inhale asking "What am I?", Exhale and do the first two lines, on the next Inhale again ask "What am I?", and then repeat the last two lines on the Exhale. As far as alternate nostril breathing there is a good video @ "Alternate Nostril Breathing".
Use this anytime you are trying to make something happen and can't find a solution to a problem. It can be used many times a day for all manner of things.
As described above, and under the signature to this email, there are lots of resources, all free in some format. There is a lot there, which begs the question of how one decides which one to listen to. IME, the "right" resource at that time will "feel" different from all others. The blogpost "Feeling your way to nondual awakening" can give some helpful tips.
It is important to keep in mind that none of us is in control of "these lives".
Ramana Maharshi and Albert Einstein discovered the same thing:
Questioner: How did you make your amazing discoveries?
Einstein replied: "I claim credit for nothing. Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."
Questioner: "Are only the important things in a person's life, such as their main occupation or profession, predetermined, or are trifling acts also, such as taking a cup of water, or moving from one part of the room to another?
Ramana replied: "Everything is predetermined".
Nikola Tesla and Stephen Hawking found the same thing.
Trust this is useful.
All the best to you in these challenging COVID times.
As I am working on Ramana Maharshi's "Public speeches, physical activity, and material help are all outweighed by the silence of those absorbed in the Self. They accomplish more than others.", this will be our only direct communication.
stillness and letting go
Gary
@@GaryWeber Hi Gary, I am very humbled that you would take so much time for me. Thank you so much for all the helpful tips and most especially for the hope you have given me. many blessings to you. Anne
Is the mind just a thought, I sit sometimes and wait / watch for my next thought.
Hi Paul Kingsman. The "mind" is just a name for a collection of thoughts...there is no such thing as a "mind".
As you "sit and sometimes wait/watch" for your next thought, what do you observe? If you watch very carefully, do thoughts emerge, or can intense watching slow or stop them?
Very importantly, do you "think up your thoughts", or do they just emerge "all by themselves" without your pre-thinking and creating them. If you don't "think up your thoughts", why do you feel "you" are in control?
stillness
I awakened about two weeks ago and I notice I hardly suffer anymore and my mind is silent most of the time. But its more like I can notice the thoughts coming and the thoughts will almost reinforce the freedom to end it and just be in the now and the happening. Your videos are helping me a lot I just found them yesterday, would love to know if you think this is it if this is enlightenment or if it is the true beginning of the path
Hi DJ chronic. It is a great start on the path, but there is much that can be done to get that state to occur more frequently and perhaps stabilize in it, and to weaken or stop the self-referential thoughts that storm in to overwhelm it and get back to "business as usual".
If you look under "Show more" above, you'll see links to all of my work, all free in some format. The best place to start is my first book, "Happiness Beyond Thought: A Practical Guide to Awakening" - you'll see a free download link.
Also the blogposts "What is the 'Direct Path' to nondual awakening? What is self-inquiry? @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-is-direct-path-to-nondual.html, and
"letting go of your attachments to awaken - why/how/when" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2014/06/letting-go-of-your-attachments-to.html are useful places to start.
If you are drawn to the path, i would strongly recommend it. It can become the best thing in your life.
stillness
Hi Gary, I was hoping for some advice. As a 22 year old, I find that the area in which I get "stuck" the most is my sexuality. I find it hard at times to be present with the intense energy movements in my body without the mind linking up to the feeling and making a mess of things. At times, it is physically painful to be present with the energy, sometimes I get headaches from it. But, I'm set on seeing this through; any words of wisdom to ease the transition?
I like very much not to see big microphones in your show. That says a lot.
Things started clicking about 2 weeks ago for me. Its like standing in high winds but unmoved an unaffected. The "high winds" being the world around me and inside me. Also there is a need to express my experience as poetical as I can. Im not a poet.Realized I shouldn't fight these urges but just watch them and flow...
Hi James. Yes, just be present, even as the "high winds" around/inside you move. See if in fact you are in control of the "high winds", and observe who it is who sees the "high winds". Is there even anyone there to write the poems, or do the poems just arise, all by themselves, in their own time, from some unknown Source, "magically". stillness
Gary Weber Hey thanks for the input:-) yes presence is the key and the good news is that the present moment is right there. See ya!
After each break down,fall,vasanas will return your practising
Hi Mike T. Yes, indeed, you're right back doing it again. stillness
Hi Rajeev. i went directly into empirical investigation of the nature of self-referential thoughts by self inquiry w/o philosophical preparation. After the page turned, i hunted for some philosophical framework to "explain" my state, and found that only advaita could do that. The Gita and Vivekachudamani were useful. BTW, my new book "Dancing Beyond Thought: Bhagavad Gita Verses and Dialogues on Awakening" might be interesting. On Amazon. A video of my chanting them manifests tomorrow.
I don't understand how unattachment works when you have children.
Hi furnessbrevin. IME, with two kids and two grandkids, attachment doesn't work.
If you meet your children with all of your past stories and experiences about how they should have done this, or failed at that, or need to improve, or are going to fail, etc., that is not going to work. They've heard it all before so they cut you out, ignore you, fight against you, etc.
It is also important to realize that past middle-school or even before that, their views and values are more heavily shaped by their kid networks and now, by whoever/whatever they see on the internet, that they are by you.
Often, we need our kids to need us much more than they actually need us.
If you can meet them with "unattachment", which doesn't mean ignoring them, but rather meeting them openly, non-judgmentally, and being fully present for how they are right now, the time you have with them will be much more fruitful and productive.
You may not get everything "your way", but they will at least know you are open to listening to what is happening with them without judgment.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
You guys still have thoughts, correct? Just not self-referential thoughts? Do you have repetitive annoying thoughts that are NOT self-referential? What about a science/math problem that recirculates? It is not self-referential, however it is in your consciousness distracting you from Oneness/presences.
Hi Ryan. If you have "repetitive annoying thoughts", they are inherently self-referential, as there is someone that is annoyed by them.
If you are just working on an analytical, planning or problem-solving effort, like creating a complex algorithm, trying to find the right word or phrase in a poem or paragraph, or sorting-out a complex situation, etc., there is no emergence of annoyance.
However, as soon as you get emotional, frustrated and judgmental with your lack of progress, and the seeming "impossibility" of finding a solution and the fear of failure, then anger arises from a "self" which created it. It is obvious, as you can watch work on the effort shut down as intense stories, fears, anxieties, etc. crowd it out.
The most useful thing that can be done is to identify those stories and apply the "letting go" procedures of Byron Katie and the Sedona method described in the blogpost "Surrendering the 'I', letting go of suffering" @ happinessbeyondthought.blogspot.com/2012/05/surrendering-i-letting-go-of-suffering.html.
Once the stories have been "let go of", self-judgment falls away, and productive analytical, planning and problem-solving tasks can resume.
Trust this is useful.
stillness
Your answer was very helpful. I really appreciate that you reply to comments.
Hi Ryan. Great that you found it so helpful. JIC, if you look under "Show More" in any of my videos, you'll see links to all of my work, all free in some format. stillness
Do we really need a Guru?
Hi Neo Advaita vedanta Ninja Hope. Depends what you mean by a "guru"...anything and anyone can be a "guru", whether it is a bird in the tree above you, a flower, someone in front of you at the market, the grass growing, a relative, frenemy, neighbor, etc.
Everything can be a "lesson" from the Universe/She who does it all, trying to awaken you, which is also Her from the illusions manifesting.
stillness
Gary Weber Thank you forever.