The NFL’s Stadium Problem…
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2022
- The nfls stadium problem…
References:
neo-trans.blog/2022/06/27/sou...
www.wcnc.com/article/sports/b...
www.wsmv.com/2022/05/12/coope...
www.potomaclocal.com/2022/05/...
www.google.com/amp/s/milehigh...
www.google.com/amp/s/www.spor...
www.cincinnatimagazine.com/ar...
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"Qwest Field (Seahawks Stadium) under construction, 2001" by Seattle Municipal Archives is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
"US Bank Stadium / Vikings Stadium Construction" by Tony Webster is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
“Sunrise, Moonset Over Cleveland Browns Stadium (8849712890).jpg” by cogdogblog is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
"Kingdome implosion, 2000" by Seattle Municipal Archives is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
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Amazing that a 100 year old baseball stadium is a National Treasure, but a 20 year old football stadium just doesn’t work anymore.
That's the NFL 😕
I agree. I wish the Rams stayed in the Coliseum and that the Chargers went to the Rose Bowl
@@ellarosenzweig2098 Kroenke should have put the money towards refurbishing the hell outta LA Coliseum cos the stadium been there for a half century and the legacy holds more ground
@@MarloSoBalJr
Over Sofi?
👀
@@MarloSoBalJr a half century? Try an entire century the LA Collesseum has been there!
$0 of tax money should ever go to build an NFL stadium. These billionaires should build their own stadiums.
I bet they would stay a lot longer in their stadiums if teams had to pay for it.
Or money payed by the city or state should be purchases of portions of the teams with voting seats on the board.
Agreed. Owners wouldn't be so glib about demanding new stadiums if they had to pay for it themselves.
@@RunningRogue24 Great idea. Something like the Green Bay Packers and Lambeau Field except for all NFL teams.
@@jlrva3864 the city of Green Bay is borderline OWNED by the packers. Every NFL team COULD do this and WOULD do this. But the cities don’t want to lose the NFL team. Because believe it or not it’s a benefit for the city. If not they wouldn’t do it. NFL teams would be more than happy to move a town over where the city treats them better. These arguments are essentially childish naive comments. Not to mention the stadiums that are literally falling apart. Like the poo water incident of the commanders. Or the metrodome collapsing MULTIPLE times. It just seems like a bunch of non sports fans who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about honestly. Fine. Don’t pay for the stadium. Don’t cry when your ass doesn’t have a football team then.
Of the 30 year old stadiums and the NFL the only one that actually needs to be replaced is fedex field in Washington, that stadium was an absolute dump when it was built
@Eragor the Kindhearted Dan Snyder and Anthony Fauci both at different times sacrificed 3 baby goats at midnight to a demonic entity. Said entity has these individuals carry out their bidding and in order to help accomplish this, gave both of them an unworldly power to not be held accountable for their actions. I struggle to think of anyone else who has been as absolutely useless and incompetent as these two and have no repercussions for said 'uselessness'.
By several accounts, it seems that the Commanders will one day play within the limits of the District of Columbia. Aren't they eying the site of old RFK Stadium to build a new palace? The District would like to get their team back inside its boundaries but who has $2 billion to build this monument to a team that will play maybe ten or eleven games there in a calendar year? Even the federal government can't be THAT stupid. Or maybe they could? 🤔🏈
And somehow is still a dump now. Basically a lateral move for a generation
@@jeffreywayne3127 RFK Stadium site is owned by National Park Service, which makes it EXTREMELY difficult to do anything productive with the site. It would require Congress to act (hah!) to approve transfer to a private entity. Oh wait, Congresspeople have (rightfully) said they won't transfer the parcel to the Commanders while Dan Snyder remains owner (huh, Congress showing integrity 🤔😂).
That site, even when housing has been proposed for it, has been stifled 🙄. My crystal ball says RFK Stadium meets the wrecking ball, but nothing new occurs on that parcel before 2025
@Eragor the Kindhearted the colosseum is I think one of the last stadiums from the 60s-70s era that was so horrid, so yes
It is out of hand. However I wouldn’t be so bothered by it if these billionaire owners would pay for these billion dollar stadiums themselves. Studies have proven that the economic benefits that these new stadiums will create is bs.
Economic benefits were the great lie taxpayers were told for decades so they can pay for stadiums. I don't think it sells anymore because the data says otherwise, now the politicians are just blatantly caving to the owners.
NFL owners will only ever pay half because they don't own the stadiums, the city does
@Eragor the Kindhearted it's the main reason so many NFL teams have shitty stadiums, it's because the city and the team owners can't agree on a price
@Internet “Person” Finally, someone who gets it.
@Internet “Person” Perhaps less expensive taste in stadiums is the answer. Most cities can't afford to build anything comparable to Jerry's World or SoFi.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Green Bay. Lambeau Field has existed in some capacity since 1957 and has continuously been added on and renovated over the years. I’m pretty sure suggesting demoing Lambeau could be prosecuted as a hate crime in Wisconsin. The major difference is you don’t have an owner trying to maximize profits who can threaten the public by moving. So it proves that the stadiums can work, it’s the owner.
The major difference is Lambeau is the Fenway of the NFL, it's a landmark.
@@alexwagner3354 either way it still proves building entirely new stadiums isn’t necessary for a team to be successful.
Lambeau is a anomaly compared to other stadiums. Many stadiums are impossible to renovate since there literally isn’t anymore room. Because they’re downtown
It's honestly impressive how the Packers managed to make Lambeau so modern while keeping its historic charm, unlike the Bears who completely botched Soldier Field
I came here to pretty much exactly this.
I feel like college stadiums last longer simply because it’s tied to a school rather than a owner who can just threatened to move the team elsewhere if a new one isn’t built. I mean call me simple but stadiums are meant for going to the game and watching it. I feel like stadiums are too extravagant nowadays.
The Universities don't have nearly the money the NFL has, espeically since all public unversities are funded by state & local governments.
@@chriskay1449 Yes so, they would have to rely on money made from athletic sports to fund venues to play at using solely that and public donation funds or find a sponsor willing to donate, like the Kohl's center for UW Basketball and Hockey.
Stadiums can't be built for just football. Jerry makes more money from non Cowboys games in Stadium than with.
St. Louis is a great example of this. They built the dome for a NFL team. It was still being completed when the Rams moved there (they played in Busch Stadium for a year). The Rams only played in the dome for 19 years and basically said it was obsolete. The city then spent millions on a proposal for a new stadium. Millions spent before there ever was any ground broken. Then of course Kroenke moves them to LA anyways when that was probably the plan since the day he bought them. Meanwhile, the city is still paying for the cost of building the dome. And the stadium is apparently not as bad as they made it out to be cause they still hold plenty of events there and the XFL uses it.
There is absolutely zero reason for Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or Denver to even think about giving those teams money to a new stadium or billion dollar upgrade. Those stadiums are perfectly fine and already cost the taxpayers a lot of money to build.
Denver has the richest owner in the history of the NFL, so if Walmart wants a new stadium for their team, they can build one. Pittsburgh & Cincy weren't part of that list. Cleveland is part of that list of late 90's stadiums that the teams want to get rid of. But their team is horrible, so good luck getting a new stadium. Jimmy had enough money to give his suspended QB, he can build his own stadium by ripping more people off at his shops.
The REAL reason there’s zero reason for these cities to bend over is because most cities are now wise to the economics. There’s not enough cities who will pay for that anymore.
Someone tries to relocate to Portland and get public funds, there will be an initiative that gets the signatures to put it on the ballot and the “yes let’s fund it” vote is 35% max. That is proving now to be the case for most markets.
Most of the Owners of smaller market teams in the NFL (Buffalo Carolina Cincinnati etc) are expecting public funding to pay for new stadiums. The problem with this is that taxes go up and the public gets stuck paying for a stadium wether they wanted to or not. I think all NFL owners should pay for new stadiums out of their own pockets. Not assume that the public wants to fund them.
Cincinnati’s owner couldn’t even begin to afford a new stadium lol
Highmark is going into its 50th season this year. It's time to replace it & the new facility will be nice, but not AT&T like.
But Cincy, Cleveland, Denver these places are less than half as old! Makes no sense to scrap them yet
NYS just gave the Bills $850 million for a new stadium. It’s disgusting the way the public gets fleeced for these stadiums. First we pay for them, then we pay to use them.
No issues with the municipalities offering to pay for the stadiums, but they should be able to reap the benefits whether it be loaning the money to the team and being paid back the principle/interest or by having great economic rights to the ticket/GameDay revenues than the current arrangements we see today or even being given equity into the team ownership.
Denver Broncos back in the 90's said they'll move out if they had to fund a new stadium privately.
Lambeau Field is highly successful, without all the bells and whistles. 💥
Actually, it does have all the bells and whistles. ALl in the seating and luxury boxes above the seating bowl.
With Zero chance of ever holding a SB and no other events it's all GB needs. GB shouldn't even have a team where it is
NFL and their owners are in the middle of record valuation and revenue, let them built their own top tier stadiums… the taxpayer should NEVER have to foot the bill
So? Value is not = how much money they have available. Their vaulation is heavily tied up in franchise operation, sot hey don't actually have the money laying around to build one on their own. People need to start educating their self on what net worth actually means.
So on point. We were just at Bank of America Stadium last night for a soccer game. It's a great stadium with everything you need for a great experience. Not run down at all. I can't believe there was talk about tearing it down and moving it somewhere else. I'd bet there's a "kickbacks game" that most people aren't privy to in these rebuild scenarios. However, Super Bowl Impact is indeed greater than you think. Flights, Hotels, Restaurants, Tourism, Incidentals, Media Impact etc adds up. The Rose Bowl in LA has an economic impact of close to a billion dollars each year.
Charlotte is the only MLS market that requires a PSL for their season ticket. In the terms and conditions of the PSL agreement. The PSL agreement only lives with the life the of current Bank of America Stadium. If Charlotte FC moves into a Soccer Specific Stadium or if the Panthers/Charlotte FC move into a new facility together. Season ticket holders will have to fork over another PSL fee to keep their season tickets. For ownership to even mention that stipulation in their PSL agreement, you can read into it as they intend to get a new stadium eventually.
That comment about the Super Bowl has become a falsehood.
What happens now is you have the super-rich in America converge on the SB site, including those providing services. There’s fan fests with national sponsors, there’s Uber-rich parties throughout, they exchange money with each other, then they all leave town.
There are a few real fans who show up, and their patronage often replaces people who get out of town because they’re worried about everything being overcrowded.
I’m sure there’s something of an impact when it’s all done, but it’s well below what’s claimed. There’s certainly an impact for the owner, naturally.
Definitely getting out of hand. I completely agree that these studies about current stadiums no longer being viable are likely funded by the teams.
As a bears fan I can tell you Soldier field is a dump. It looks like a ufo landed in the Roman coliseum. The renovations destroyed the ascetic and lowered the seating capacity for luxury boxes. They should have just built a new stadium.
Hard disagree, I love soldier field. I’ve seen football, soccer, rugby, and the nhl winter classic there and enjoyed every single one. Plus the location is literally perfect. Obvi it’s not a totally perfect stadium, but it’s incredibly intimate for a venue of its size and like I said the location is great. I have spent a lotta time in AH where they want to build the new stadium and I’ve gotta tell ya that place sucks. Nowhere near as cool as downtown lakefront, even with the city’s glaring issues.
@@pjkerrigan20 Location is horrible. It's hard to get to , a lot of traffic, and the fan experience isn't worth it. Not to mention that it's the smallest stadium in the nfl. Put a dome on it and move to arlington.
Miami's stadium looks like a huge aquarium. Nothing about these new stadiums screams sports.
As someone else mentioned, the reason why you see older college football stadiums is because it's up to the school whether it wants to replace the stadium or not. There's no owner that will threaten to move the team away if they don't get a new stadium. Plus, part of the mystique of some programs, as well as their student life, is playing in an old stadium.
As far as Baltimore, specifically, the City isn't involved in the stadium relationships with the Orioles or Ravens. That's handled at the state level, as it has been since after the end of the Baltimore Colts. So, the city's finances don't have any impact on the stadium questions. Maryland Stadium Authority is trying to stave off the whole new stadium issue by doing upgrades to OP@CY and M&T. They recently offered both the Orioles and Ravens $600M for renovations to the respective stadiums. Orioles have to sign a new long-term lease to get their funds. Ravens have already been working with the MSA for upgrades through the years, but so far as the public knows, there hasn't been any threat of them moving and the relationship between the Ravens and MSA is just fine. Not that their needs to be, because, again, the spectre of the Baltimore Colts hangs over everything, whether anybody admits it or not.
The NFL is way out of control when it comes to stadiums at this point. Owners paying for their own stadiums is one thing, but is < 30 years the NFL's timeframe for the life of a stadium?
The Universites don't have nearly the money the NFL has either.
I bet if we "built em' like we used to" and made them more durable/quality and upgradable they could last 100 years. I think stadiums are like cars though, they don't need replaced but they do it to have something new and shiny.
If someone owned a 1996 Mercedes Benz S Class vs a 2022 Mercedes Benz S Class, you can fix up the old one, rebuild the engine, detail it, put new everything, it's not going to function like a 2022 S Class.
It's not about durability. It's about revenue generation. newer stadiums mean designing for more luxury boxes that make far more money,
@@ajrichards1190 That 1996 is gonna last 10x longer
@@chriskay1449 Ding ding ding!
@@retrogaminggenesis6102 The 96 S Class will be more reliable and still serve its functions, but the newer tech tells a lot. You can't make new revenue in an older facility and the newer stadiums seem to offer more (Sofi Stadium offers an experience the Rose Bowl or the LA Coliseum can't offer).
Chicago, one of the largest markets and the smallest stadium in the league with no parking. Glad they getting ready to move to the suburbs.
Parking around a stadium is what ruins a stadium tho. All the greatest sports stadiums in Europe and even a couple of the best ones in the US (Wrigley, Fenway, etc) are integrated into walkable, urban areas. And it’s awesome. No one wants to be surrounded by parking lots. I know people love tailgating, but parking lots are almost entirely bad for urban areas.
Firstly, I love the content.
I've been to just over half of the current NFL stadiums and a few that are no longer with us (Georgia Dome and Cleveland Municipal - nice shirt)
Going to SoFi, ATL Mercedes Benz Dome, AT&T in Dallas, Lucas Oil and Ford Field to an extent: those top tier stadiums are fitting to their market.
What I mean is that SoFi was selling wine and shrimp cocktails... not exactly fan favorites in the midwest.
Tier 2 and 3 cities in smaller markets have stadiums that reflect their demographics as well, in my opinion. Open air to embrace the weather, amenities to the tune of flush toilets and concourse lighting are about all you can expect.
I feel confident based on the stadium renderings in Buffalo that this barebones stadium in the modern NFL won't go away.
That said - I also work with Kindergarten through 12th grade public schools. I feel very strongly that no public money should be used to construct these stadiums. Maintenance and upkeep staff is different. These franchises are worth billions of dollars, the teams can afford to front the money to built their football temples. Its wrong to have failing public education and crumbling roads in cities with billion dollar stadiums.
When they determine concessions, they want to go with some items that are local in flavor to go along with the standards. If you go to Lambeau Field in Green Bay, you wil get Brats, Cheese Curds and other midwestern staples to go along with the hot dogs, burgers and fries.
One factor that is seldom if ever mentioned when discussing NFL teams threatening to skip town unless the public ponies up for a new stadium is the NFL's monopoly status. Unlike most businesses, if an NFL team leaves town, a local entrepanuer can't just start a new one. An existing team can't "expand" by opening a new "branch" in that city.
the working class pays taxes to fund these stadiums and then they get priced out of going to them
You proved your point with college stadiums. We have a bunch of overpaid whiny butts that want to bleed not only the fans but the residents of that city dry and then some. I say we should go back to when the NFL first started and just let them share a college stadium. Most of those college stadiums are better venues than even the new stadiums of the NFL. The NFL has already ruined a bunch of great historical stadiums. The original soldier Field was awesome! Update the locker rooms if you must or extra seats but the original atmosphere of that stadium is no more. there’s a lot of other stadiums that were great and all they needed to do was maintain the inside. Put up a Jumbotron if you want to but leave the stadium alone. History is lost when a historic stadium gets demolished rather than kept and maintained. The only historic field we have left is Lambeau field.
The college stadium have alumnus, school tradition, students, etc. NFL will leave town if they can't turn a profit. In terms of Soldier field, I wish they did something like the U of Memphis doing to their football stadium that kept the original look, but modernize the structure (not a big space shuttle).
NOt going to happen because the Universites would tell the NFL to get bent. Also, the Universities are just as greedy.
The problem with this as teams try to hd a city hostage for a stadium is that there are only so many cities that can host an NFL team. So there's going to be reconing that most of these teams can't move and are going to have to work with their host cities.
I'd bet you IF a team kept ticket prices honestly reasonable, MANY cities could have a team that you might think No Way. But the problem is ticket cost. If so many families of 4 (lots of the population) are automatically priced out, and only people with expendable cash can afford it, then a city is screwing itself. Every NFL city already screws people and it's sad.
@@jenrenee7571 You would be surprised in NY/NJ that the ticket prices and parking would be higher but they are not. Jets Upper level tickets start at $50 per game for a season ticket holder. For the Giants that price is $95 with a 1k PSL paid over 5 years. The stadium has a value beer price of $5 per beer. They also have a kids concession menu containing fan favorites like hot dogs pretzels gatorades all at reasonable price for both reams. Parking I believe starts at $15 bucks per game for a season ticket holder for the Jets and $20 for the Giants. The few non parking pass lots Lots 25/26 and Lots B/C of American dream cost $30 for the Giants and $60 for the Jets. Were talking the #1 tv market in the country and the prices if planned our correctly is somewhat affordable. Also if one doesnt want to pay the obscene parking rates. NJT runs bus service to the nearby American dream Mall making stops in the town of East Rutherford for only $1.60 each way for the 5 min ride. That is how I usually attend my Giants games and pay typically below the season ticket price on the secondary market. Sometimes as low as $25.
You raise an interesting question. In addition, another factor is owners use the threat of relocating to try to squeeze a new stadium out of a city, but the options for where teams can move is limited if they want a billion-dollar mega-stadium with all the amenities. It'll be interesting to see how it ends up playing out.
Glad to be a packer fan I don't think lambeau is going anywhere despite being over 50 years old.
The only thing that is over 50 years old at this point is the concrete stadium bowl. Everything else is 20 years old at most.
The biggest issue with building these stadiums is the designers/architects/owners are not forward thinking or looking into the future. They need to be designed and built so that expansion or enhancements can be easily made in the future vs tear down and rebuild for it to be relevant for 5 years.
Montreal Expos in the late 90's had that idea, but you lose that experience. The Citrus bowl in Orlando by NFL standards will be a bare bones stadium
But the designers only have limited space to deal with. Most stadiums were built where you can't exapnd or make enhancements, especially ones downtown.
Sofi Stadium in Inglewood CA where the Rams and Chargers play cost 6 billion dollars to build. I don't see very many teams wanting to pay that kind of money for a new stadium.
Especially now that fans know stadiums do squat for the economy and they're paying for it, and not the billionaire owner.
Kronke had the funds to build it himself. But also got a lot of tax breaks to build it in Inglewood.
@@KMcNally117 I hate to break it to you, but every billionaire owner put money towards their stadium. They aren't getting it for free.
I attended the inaugural game when AT&T Stadium or new Cowboys Stadium open and it was shrine to Jerry Jones massive ego. The Jumbo Tron alone cost about a quarter of a small countries GDP. I wonder how Ohio going to deal with both the Bengals and the Browns want new stadiums.
The Bengals just released a very nice plan for renovations to PBS/Paycor that would go a long way in keeping the stadium around another 20/30+ seasons. It's only the Browns that want to build a new stadium.
@@CUB3Jsg22 Come on now, the factory of sadness is the adequate place the Browns should be playing at. If they win a super bowl anytime in this century then they can ask for a new stadium, otherwise they provide an essential service by creating sadness in Ohio.
@@nyfinest017 I mean, I hope they're sad forever lol. Who Dey.
I agree. MOST NFL stadiums are just fine if not great. I think its dumb and wasteful to just build a new one. Also modern stadiums are moving out of the cities in favor of the suburbs, witch I hate.
NFL wants top tier stadiums?? Fund them! Don't depend on the public. Not everyone in one city is an NFL fan and they're giving them more reasons to hate it and professional sports as a whole
Giants stadium in NJ was built in the 1970's when there was a shift from 'multi use' stadiums popular to the 1960's to football or baseball centered ones. The Jets became co-tenants with the Giants there as Shea stadium was a 'dual use', baseball first, football second stadium with many compromises in particular with seating positions for fans, more seats in football primary stadiums, field conditions and conflicts in the fall season. Another major trend with some exceptions is to have stadiums and ball fields close to or part of the 'downtown' areas of cities instead of the suburbs to revitalize former industrial areas and where bars, restaurants, nightclubs and mass transit access.
I think states and local governments should put in significant taxes on a percentage of seat revenues for all events to offset taxpayer's costs not just subsidies for the stadium, but all the access infrastructure (roads, etc).
I think Cleveland or at least the AFC north with there cold weather roofless stadiums should build something like college stadium or OSU horseshoe or LA coliseum. A simple 60k seat stadium with suites and that is designed to look good in 200 years, something a city can still use and be proud of even if there big team leaves.
Wish the Super Bowl would rotate to more cities, not just the usual Arizona, New Orleans and Florida. I bet Nashville, Seattle, Charlotte and KC would put up a great show
Weather in northern cities outside in February without a dome football stadium is a big concern. This is why you would never have a Superbowl in Green Bay, Kansas City, etc.
@@amazingeric97 well we had a Super Bowl in New York (New Jersey) already, and the only problems with that game were related to transportation and parking around the stadium, not the weather. The problem is no big-wigs want to go to Kansas City in February.
@@jasonfire3434 Kansas City does not have the infrastructure to hosrt one. I am talking hotels and restuarants to accomodate the 100's of thousands coming to town.
Good news for me as a yinzer, I know the Steelers will NEVER leave Pittsburgh.
The NFL was out of hand with this 40 years ago. Myself the only thing the host city should be responsible for is access to the new stadium. The Owner if they want a new stadium should go to an architect make plans, go to the city to see what land is available. THEN BUILD IT WITH THEIR OWN MONEY.
Again, the owners don't have the money to build one. Their net worth is heavily tied up in the team to the point they don't have 1 billion lying around.
@@chriskay1449 by that logic, how exactly do you think European soccer stadiums get built? Many of the clubs in the top 5 leagues are owned by corrupt billionaires, just like the NFL, but in countries that don’t tolerate the same hostage situation that we do between the league and municipal governments. Still, extraordinary stadiums get built all the time, including the new Tottenham Hotspur Stadium that’s now hosting NFL London games on a regular basis. I know that the billionaire owners’ wealth is somewhat tied up in their teams’ worth, but the American stadium situation is still fucked. Most countries don’t use public funds for private projects like sports stadiums. Nonetheless, sports can still thrive in many many other countries. We gotta reevaluate in the US seriously.
@@pjkerrigan20 Those billionaires have a lot more money than the gus in the NFL who are billionaires by just getting over the threshold. Differences between guys who are worth 10-15 billion vs the NFL owners worth 1-5 billion.
@@chriskay1449 a lot of those billionaires are literally the same exact people who own the European clubs. Kroenke, for instance. Sure the NFL doesn’t have like Saudi investment or anything, but a billion is still an insane amount of money. People like the PSG Qataris or Man City Emiratis are still kinda an exception rather than the rule, most clubs are not run by royalty. Also, and ownership doesn’t HAVE to be one person. Obviously you’ll usually have a chair of the organization, but ownership groups make much much more sense than a single owner.
@@chriskay1449 Then borrow the money.
If "experts" are claiming full gut jobs are needed at similar or MORE expense than a new state of the art stadium, the team/city/whoever paid for the stadium needs to sue the original builder for negligence if they're built THAT poorly
(The other option of course being like you said, the experts are financially biased)
Good luck with that. Most of the stadiums being talked about for replace meant are 25 years old or older. ANd yes at that point a full gut job would be far more expensive then just building anew just because of having to demo everything and replace it all.
Absolutely agree. As others have said, just look at some of the old school ball parks which are national treasures.
The stadiums are fine just the way they are. Don’t replace them if they’re less than 30 years old.
Except for Washington. THAT place is a dump!!!!
I was in highschool when a few of these stadiums were built, its crazy that these stadiums need to be replaced
We're old.
This is the reason why St.Louis lost the Rams and Cardinals. I don't think it was fair for these owners and the NFL to pressure these cities to upgrade a stadium.
The Bears, it was a long time coming. Soldier Field is a very decent place to see an event, however it's past it's prime for a NFL game.
To me.., Lambeau Field is the true Holy Grail of how to upgrade a stadium facility every year and still stay relevant.
Atlanta (What a waste of money) built the Georgia Dome in the 90's (in which, there was not one thing wrong with that Dome) and not even 20 years later, a new one goes up and guess who gets stuck with the bill?? The taxpayers of that city and state.
Comiskey Park (Chicago White Sox) before it was torn down, the owner said the place was unsafe and needed a new stadium. I asked the engineer who was overseeing the demolition of Comiskey, was their any truth to was owner saying and he stated that Comiskey Park was ahead of it's time and could've stood another 100 years. All they had to do was do a two year rehab and played their home games in Milwaukee.
No matter what happens, greed always wins out and the city with true fans suffer.
Side note.., Oakland should've NEVER lost the Raiders.
My biggest issue with stadiums today is the cost. After AT&T Stadium was built, EVERY STADIUM HAD TO BE $1 BILLION! I honestly find it fishy too, like money laundering fishy, because there are stadiums more advanced in amenities than some that are built today (Levi's Stadium for example), and costed less than a half a billion dollars, like Cardinals Stadium in Glendale, AZ, that was less than a half a billion and it has a RETRACTABLE FIELD AND ROOF!
Levi's Stadium looks like a college venue, 100% open air, nothing fancy outside of it, and it's OVER $1 billion. US Bank Stadium is a pure glass dome and it's over $1 billion.
The strangest thing to me and the fishy part about this, is that none of the stadiums after the Cowboys house more than 80k people either! US Bank Stadium barely goes over 70k in expanded format, Levi's is just over 70k. The only stadium to reach 80k was Metlife, and that's another stadium that was WAY overpriced! That stadium's only feature is the ability to switch from Giants to Jets in like 2 days?
Not one stadium looks like its price tag since the Cowboys. As a result, a little blame for all these new stadiums goes to Jerry Jones, cuz the rest of the owners are literally keeping up with the Jones's. If he hadn't paid so much to go into Cowboys Stadium, let alone making it so grandiose in features, we wouldn't have this stadium craze.
Now some stadiums needed to go for one reason or another. Qualcomm was showing its age, but with no baseball there, there was no reason not to rebuild it ala Hard Rock Stadium to keep the Chargers in San Diego, the Rams could've easily stayed in St. Louis if they ripped the roof off if Fan Experience was such a big issue for them, Candlestick was legit bad, and the Metrodome malfunctioned. Funny thing, if the Rams and Chargers never moved to LA, I could've seen the Raiders move back there and take the Rose Bowl (UCLA could've then been funded their own stadium to avoid scheduling issues, while the Raiders could rebuild the Rose Bowl to bring it to modern times! :D), there was no saving Oakland-Alameda.
So many stadiums though are being replaced after not even 30 years, and many of them look like they have nothing wrong with them. Giants Stadium didn't need replacement imo, neither the Georgia Dome. I half understand FedEx Field, but that's only been up for 20 years! How is it already having issues!?
All these new stadiums bug me, they just come off as so unnecessary, and the reasons/excuses these owners come up with are stupid as hell! Idk how anyone buys their shit! I also don't understand why owners aren't brought to justice for extortion!? Imagine the NFL today with a rebuilt Qualcomm, Edward Jones Domeless Stadium, rebuilt Rose Bowl, cheaper Levi's Stadium and US Bank Stadium, rebuilt Giant's Stadium, renovated Georgia Dome, ALL instead of what we have today.
You can thank Al (RIP) Davis. He started the luxury box craze in 1980 & Franchise free agency with the Raiders. So, how did that work out for you Oakland/Alameda???
Those stadiums cost lest because BUILDING MATERIALS cost lest. Go check out the price of concrete from when the older stadiums were built to today. Then do the same for every substance used to build the stadium. That is why stadiums cost more. The manufacturing cost has greatly risen.
Cost of land varies from city. You can build a fancier stadium if the land is cheap.
The cost of materials, labor, etc.
@@fixiotreeshin5809 Labor being the big one. The labor Union labor costs in Santa Clara, CA and East Rutherford, NJ had to be through the roof. The local governments did not contribute a single cent in either stadium as well. 49ers, Giants, and Jets fans paid PSL fees to help build those stadiums.
Levi Stadium will look nice once it's finished!
Professional sports teams economics 101
Step 1) Bitch about your current stadium
Step 2) beg your state and local politicians to build you a new stadium .
Step 3)if your politicians have a backbone and say no to you, then find a city to pay for your new stadium.
The main stadium problem is the constant claim they want to "enhance the fan experience" What does that even mean? The only experience I need is the game. That's the only reason I'm even at the place.
If they have booze and a place to piss it away that's all the amenities I need
So true. I’ve had the privilege to visit a lotta stadiums in this country, and honestly AT&T Stadium was one of the worst. Tbh I have a much better time going to my local ballpark in Worcester MA than I did seeing football in Dallas. Good food, great beer selection, comfortable surroundings, and not full of ridiculous gimmicks. That’s how u “enhance the fan experience.” NFL needs to learn why a day at the ballpark is always so pleasant and seek to emulate that.
Eventually the NFL will run out of US Cities it can hold hostage & start going international. London Jaguars anyone??? But, San Diego, St. Louis, Oakland should be a lesson to any city that is contemplating spending $2 Billion or more on a stadium.
Objection:
Chicago is neither a small market, nor is Soldier Field less than 30 years old. The new contract/renovation might be less than 30 years, but not this old classic stadium that was quite mauled during the last "modernization".
I wish we would do what John McCain suggested: if taxpayers have to pay for a a stadium, no blackout rules
They got rid of blackouts about 10 years ago
@@forgottenplaces9780 my bad! :)
you from MI?
@@KayVeeEye OH
@@forgottenplaces9780 oh, that's too bad! :)
The biggest complaint about the older stadium I watch hockey at is the bathrooms. It is made of concrete and costly to renovate. Upgrades can just be expensive. Some stadiums were indeed just built like shit and need to be demolished. Construction seems to be getting worse as costs get cut by greedy owners. Taxpayers need to grow a spine and tell owners to cover the cost of their stadiums. Stop giving the rich owners tax breaks and handouts.
The biggest reason for the skyrocketing stadiums costs is every team wanting to outdo each other. That goes beyond the NFL as other sports are experiencing issues.
You should do a video on the baseball stadiums whose lease are ending,.white sox, rays and Oakland
There are definitely stadiums that should consider significant upgrades or replacement such as FedEx field or Levi's stadium for obvious reasons. But there are venues like firstenergy, heinz, and Lincoln financial, that have been around a little while, but have generally continued to be well received by fans and sell out majority of their games. So I would think this should depend on the market. I also think it's cool to see the variety of stadiums that exist in the league and that they're not all shiny glass buildings like most of the new ones.
Best example of this: Arrowhead.
Levi's Stadium isn't even 10 years old yet. They aren't replacing that anytime soon.
Funny you mention the Bengals. They just got a naming rights deal for 16 years. That should help pay for the upgrades they want (and Joe Burrow's/Jamarr Chase's/Tee Higgen's, etc. eventual new contracts).
Players salaries and paid through league revenue sharing.
@@chriskay1449 Or, to be more precise, the media contracts. Salaries are paid before one ticket is sold.
I just want to sit and watch a football game. I don’t care if the stadium has a bunch of crap that costs a billion dollars. I still love my Louisiana Superdome, and they are still hosting Super Bowls
I didn't like how the Kingdome, RCA Dome and Georgia Dome were demolished at less than 30 years old, even though at least 2 of them were still in perfectly usable condition.
I’d hate to see the day the teams mentioned are forced to add expensive bells and whistles just to compete financially, but I’m sure it will come. The only team that really needs a new or upgraded stadium at this point is Washington, but good luck to them.
the worst thing is that the owners act like they are superrich but they almost always rely on tax payers money, and or by no paying taxes at all. And even if the taxpayers buy the stadium but the owners keep the money that those stadiums generate. and as fas as any other global sports team they are locked to the city, youll never see juventus changing cities just because the city doesnt want to pay another stadium
As a huge fan of European soccer (in addition to most big American sports leagues), I think one should look at all the great stadiums being built out there. The key difference? There are a couple: 1) most European soccer clubs don’t get taxpayer funded stadiums, they have to pay for them themselves; and 2) the fans there want nice, updated stadiums, but they don’t ask for massive videoboards or gimmicks like a pool on the stadium.
Compare the new Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in London to the SoFi in LA. Sure, they’re both expensive, but the difference in price tags is substantial bc Tottenham had to pay for most of it themselves, whereas the LA stadium was essentially lobbied for in local government by the nfl. Our stadium system in this country allows big teams to do this, and weak city leadership often bows to it. If NFL teams were required to fund their own stadium builds, I think we’d get much less insanely expensive projects and way more sensible stadium upgrades.
As for my second point, I know it’s a matter of perspective, but I have seen nfl games at Gillette, Lambeau, Soldier Field, and Jerryworld, and I’ve gotta be honest the worst experience was Dallas. You get so distracted by all the fluff, u spend have the time reminding urself to look down on the field since that’s why you’ve actually gone to the stadium. The other nfl stadiums I mentioned are light on gimmicky expensive stuff, but much better viewing experiences because the crowd really feels engaged and connected to what’s happening down on the field. Anyone who’s been to Wrigley or Fenway will get it too, the atmosphere is actually dampened by these big expensive gimmicks compared to just a proper bouncing stadium.
If American municipalities were stricter about not bowing to the NFL, not only would they have more municipal funds to focus on other projects, but it would likely cause NFL teams to spend more efficiently. We could also help by doing a more European style stadium lease, where the land stadiums are built on is often leased for 99 years.
Funny you should mention Tottenham's new stadium as its famously specifically designed for both football (I don't use the S word😁). The NFL themselves heavily invested in the cost and development of it.
It is a wonderful looking stadium, though I haven't had the pleasure of visiting it.
And it does get very good reviews from both home and away supporters - Arsenal and Chelsea fans excepted.
Ironically, of all the big football stadia in London: Tottenham, the Emirates, Stamford Bridge, Wembley, the London Stadium, Tottenham is and was notoriously the least easy to get too.
This might be a relative thing, it might be a dream compared to public transport to stadia in US cities.
But by British, or at least London standards, its always been the most awkward, having no Tube (London Underground) Station within a ten minute walk.
Something all the other stadia mentioned above do have.
Stadiums that benefit cities.??? Where does all the lottery money go
- nobody knows.
If the teams to upgrade or build new stadiums, pay it yourself.
I was a season ticket holder in Washington up until this year, name change kinda was the last straw. My section was notorious for having the sewage pipe burst on fans a couple years back and for multiple leaks through the mezzanine roof. Fortunately I wasnt under the pipes/roof in my seats as I was 2nd row, but I recall so many incidents including the barricade that almost took out Jalen Hurts last season. Wsh needs a new stadium bad. I cant speak for the others but I wouldnt doubt they need renovations too because these owners are greedy and cheap.
With my knowledge about Chicago, the renovation to Soldier Field was definitely poorly built with a lot of cut corners. Either Soldier Field collapses due to the stress of added weight over the 20 years plus years or it falls in Lake Michigan. The mayor is being an idiot here, trying to come up with renovation ideas. If the team is willing to build its own stadium with its own funds, let them.
FedEx Fields problem is Dan Snyder. Snyder refuses to put that much money into the stadium. The stadium is 25 years old. If the stadium is so poorly maintained, what would a new stadium achieve? Another poorly-maintained venue in the Beltway would be the result.
The stadium problem is going to be a major problem in Cincinnati, since it is a small market still paying off the debt for the Bengals stadium. The city's desperation to keep the team, after the original Browns left for Baltimore, put them in an awful spot some two decades and a half later.
For Baltimore, I waiting for those Mayflower truck to rev up again. The city will not and should not bend the knee to the Ravens.
As a bears fan I can tell you Soldier field is a dump. It looks like a ufo landed in the Roman coliseum. The renovations destroyed the ascetic and lowered the seating capacity for luxury boxes. They should have just built a new stadium.
@@isaacwojo3273 Royal "we" should have knocked down the original McCormick Place convention center immediately after the creation of the NEW MCCORMICK PLACE (which occurred while the aliens landed @ Soldier Field).
THEN, a new NFL stadium could have been built as an extension of the convention center space. Think: Lucas Oil Stadium in Indy, but 4 years earlier!
Had we built a new, enclosed facility earlier, maybe Chicago would be hosting BigTen football Championships, NCAA Final Fours, and the NFL Draft Combine process 🙄
The Bears aren't building with their own funds. I guarnatee you that Arlington Park will be helping with that.
@@chriskay1449 Arlington Heights proper response should be…”We’ll start a collection box.” The collection box has a quarter couple of pennies, an expired coupon for a Wendy’s frosty and a colony of cockroaches that moved into the box.
@@chriskay1449 Arlington Park’s proper response should be…”We’ll start a collection box.” The collection box has a quarter, couple of pennies, an expired coupon for a Wendy’s frosty and a colony of cockroaches that moved into the box.
Great video! I’ve always wondered about this
My city’s stadium that holds 60,000+ people was built in 1977 and still looks new after some renovations. #edmonton
Commonwealth Stadium?
I like the unique stadiums more than the flashy ones when I go to games. Hell my one game in Oakland was the best time of my life verse games in Arizona or San Diego
What part of Ohio are you in? My dad's side is all around the Youngstown area. I'm a California native and like my giants and niners but am a huge OSU fan
Most modern stadiums are over the top with all the technology.
Greenbay should have been the model for teams staying put they should have been grandfathered in.
I think in the future NFL stadiums will be smaller in capacity.
It's just simply better watching a game or games on a TV , laptop , phone , at a bar , etc.
Going to an NFL game is overrated...parking cost , concessions and food costs , endless timeouts / breaks in the action , boozed-up degenerates looking to fight...
Who needs it.
I believe any NFL team looking to renovate must plan on a smaller , more efficient structure.
The days of 80000 seat Municipal Stadium in Cleveland are long gone.
Its interesting that you mention college football stadiums that can last 100 years. There are soccer stadiums in Europe that aren’t top tier, but have lasted for a long time without all the amenities NFL teams want in their stadiums.
Europe is also smart and has mass-transit in every city, with a lot of it leading directly to these stadiums, which all have charm. Everything is also built on top of each other, making renovations an easy solution. The infrastructure is already there to bring people to the stadiums, leaving/relocating would be a horrible financial move.
NRG Stadium in Houston is in a good situation because it has the Astro Arena, NRG Center (convention center) and the metrorail next to it. Also there is a lot of land to build a new stadium if they have to.
Why is the introduction music 2x the volume of the narrative?
you should do video about this subject but on baseball parks ..
Amen. I was nodding in agreement throughout this rant lol
So Forgotten Places, question for you, what do you think the ultimate outcome for your Browns will be? Think they’ll get a new stadium in 2029? Will the put a roof on The current stadium? Will they move to San Diego?
I think there just going to do a big renovation with residential development around the stadium, putting a roof on an outdoor football stadium is neither feasible or cost effective.
Snapdragon is supposed to be expandable… but only to 55,000. Actually think it’s fair to bet that San Diego State will make it unreasonable for an NFL team to move there. The city already won’t touch the idea.
“Millions…. Or Billions”…. Dr Evil
If they NFL wanted to, they could start a fund and pay for a new stadium for one team every season. The NFL is a tax-exempt corporation and it’s time they, and the team owners, stop living off public money to build their stadiums. You don’t think that Jerry Jones, or any other NFL owner, couldn’t raise the money to build a new stadium without having to resort to public funds? It’s either that or cities start to take control of these stadiums and set prices themselves…
First off the NFL is no longer a tax exempt organization. Secondly when they were, all league revenue flowed into the 32 teams who paid and continues to pay CORPORATE INCOME TAX.
I remember when the Panthers opened their stadium (Ericsson Stadium at the time, Bank of America Stadium now) and it was regarded as a magnificent, gleaming jewel of a stadium, as good as any in the league. It is still in excellent shape, but they are now making it out to be completely trash. Somewhere will build the Panthers a billion dollar stadium if Charlotte doesn't though.
This is happening because team owners with mega stadiums, that generate mega money, don’t want to revenue share it with owners who play in more basic stadiums, that don’t generate mega money.
Therefore the league and owners are pressuring teams and cities to replace perfectly adequate stadiums
i could see cities start reacting to new stadium pitches from teams the way countries have started reacting to the olympics in the way that no one wants to host em due to the stupid cost and lack of reward.
I just never understand why the NFL itself, along with the team owner doesn't pay for these new stadiums. Why does it always have to be the local taxpayers😑
Only Washington needs an upgrade
Tennessee really surprised me. Tennesseeans will tell you "it's to host more events"
Well who said every city is entitled to host big events? Their old stadium is only 24 years old. Absurd. By that standard, Seattle, New England, Philly, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Baltimore, Denver, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Houston will also need new stadiums. Not to mention Dallas, New York, Indianapolis, Arizona are only a few years from reaching Tennessee's stage.
How many of these cities are getting World Cup matches? Kansas City is, and they will be doing $200 million in renovations 4 years before the stadium lease is up and talking about replacing. One reason the state of Kansas legalized sports betting, to raise funds to lure the Chiefs to the other side of the state line.
Curious if the World Cup will prolong the life of any of these stadiums.
Yeah it’s getting ridiculous and honestly I’m sick and tired of everyone piggy backing off of each other to make the next Jerry World. There’s not heart anymore and home field advantages are gonna become a thing of the past.
I don't want every stadium to look like a cowboy stadium. stadiums need to be unique to attract fans and uniformity will not attract fans.
Chicago Soldiers Field was only renovated in 2002...it was actually built in 1924 and is the oldest NFL stadium
Not in my view, its basically a new stadium, the guts of the old one was completely demolished with the facade left behind.
If they could put a roof on RayJ, that would be fantastic. The heat there is absolutely brutal.
Any stadium built in the 90s is a modern stadium, but its functions was for that era. NFL is a business and even though a stadium can operate aesthetically, you can't get new money out of the stadium. A lot of the caliber college bowl games are at up to date stadiums. To get back to the topic of renovations, stadium deteriorate and structural repairs need to be addressed. Structural repairs cost hundreds of millions of dollars and doesn't make sense if talks to replace the stadium come up 10 years down the road. Hard Rock Stadium is an exception of the rule in terms of renovating a 35 year old stadium, but the Dolphins in 10 years will look for a replacement because a 45 year old stadium won't be favorable to compete. One last thing where smaller markets build a stadium, they went to keep it longer because billion dollars isn't there to build a newer one. Even if you were to adjust the price of stadium back when they were new a long time ago to inflation, it will still cost more to build a stadium now. We're going to move in an era where $2 billion dollars to build a stadium and hundreds of millions of dollars to keep current stadiums at top levels to host Super Bowls.
Washington absolutely needs a new Stadium. Of all the teams that haven't reached the end of there 30 year leases. There all out door Stadiums. They need more retractable roof stadium's
All of those 1970s stadiums you mentioned were well constructed and built to last. Just look at Arrowhead Stadium. They only needed to be replaced due to owner's greed and desire to outfit the wealthy elite with luxury experiences while at the stadium.
I don't want cities to help finance these stadiums anymore, expansion should come naturally through popularity of the sport & team
The Browns stadium is pretty substandard I saw a game there in 2004 the seats were too narrow and so were the isles I thought Jacob's field was much better.
I dont really think so, its nothing particularly special but its adequate, at least the seats dont sway in the upper deck like they do in pittsburgh. The rennovations made it better too.
@@forgottenplaces9780 There had to be some renovations since the last time I was there I had to stand up the whole first half because the seats were so narrow I'm 6"1 250 lbs.
personally hope arrow head and lambo doesn’t get replaced
In general sports spending is out of control. I'm a huge motorsports fan, but would I want any state or city to give $1 billion of tax dollars to Nascar? Absolutely not, tax breaks is the best we can do. Tax money should not be spent on circuses PERIOD.
The issue is very few go to NFL games cause they love football. Go to an NFL game and see yourself. It’s all about business and wheeling and dealing with other rich people in the community. As a kid I witnessed many just sitting at the bar in the “club” levels and never even sitting at their seats. So these luxury areas have become the be all and end all for local businessman to entertain clients or colleagues.
You obviously have never been to Lambeau Field. You would then see how utterly ridiculous your post is.
@@chriskay1449 nope never been. If what you say is true though then Green Bay has amazing fans and is clearly the best nfl city.. Of course the city of Green Bay also owns the packers which is the only publicly owned team in the NFL. I don’t doubt for a minute that your right though. I will Gladly anoint Green Bay the best NFL team, city or anything else. I could care less about the NFL these days for many various reason. I was just merely telling my experiences growing up going to almost every game for 10 years plus. One thing we can agree on what I said is definitely utterly ridiculous. Which is why I dont care foe football anymore. If I make it to Green Bay maybe ill see a game and become a Packers Fan 🤷♂️.
@@alexandercluster3003 Correction, the City of Green Bay does not own the Packers. The Packers are a non profit corporation called Green Bay Packers, Inc. made up of 537,000 shareholders covering all 50 states and over 100 countries worldwide.
@@chriskay1449 lol Brother you should run for office. Go pack go!
Roger God-hell he is the problem in wanting everyone to have a Dallas or a Minnesota Vikings Stadium that had to have major companies donate to the stadium just to remain relavent. What happens when Roger God-hell wants Green Bay to get a new indoor stadium? they can't afford it or to even just dome up the current stadium and they have to move to Milwaukee, fine since in the past games were played there but what Roger God-hell does not think about are teams like Buffalo who need a new stadium that will build an early 2000's type stadium and be told it is not up to the insider NFL good boys code or tell all cold weather teams they 100% need to have a dome either as an add on or in new stadiums.
Give me a stadium paid for by the billionaire owner, in a city with low taxes, low crime and a mayor who is not corrupt.
Soldier Field, Chicago is not less than 30 years old, it was redone 20 years old, but the stadium was built in 1924. Since it's redo, it's a horrible stadium to look at and the playing field is awful. The real problem with it is, it's owned by the city of Chicago and managed by the park district, so they have all the say in what happens there. The Mayor offered to help them build a new stadium, but wants the city to retain all the rights and say over it. The Bears do need a new place separate from the city's rule
I think the problem is that all these stadium built in the 90s and early 2000s were built with very little ambition or originality.
The new stadiums we see in LA, LV, and MN are trend setters. Miraculous designs, unique to their specific city and team. Jax, Pit, Cle, Bal stadiums all look the same in a way.
So now they seem left behind in a new eravwhere multi-billion dollar stadiums are becoming the norm
O-H!!!
It's insanity hoe much is pushed at stadiums for revenue. The hope for cities/states is the tax revenue. $9 beer? Cha-ching. I would be curious though, when some states/cities foot some of the bill, how long before it is recouped