When Zoro first uses Enma we are told that it simply exudes it's wielder's ryuo on its own. This would imply that Enma itself was not boosting Zoro's power but instead not letting him hold back.
i agree, i would say enma draws out his hidden potential. But you have to be experienced and strong to even wield it. for example if pretime skip zoro wielded enma he would've died.
@@LeelosAdventureZoro was on overdrive with Emna, that's why he was risking Death... It's not like G4th (too much haki used, so take a break for 10min) but see actual Death and be out cold for 7days level of effort because Emma requires for example 1100point output, which at the point is 110% Zoro who can output safely 1000point without dying When Zoro gets more powerful Haki then he can use Emma with same output but less relative impact because his 100% becomes 1500points But when
@@LeelosAdventureyou're making more assumptions to state it draws out hidden potential. Then it takes to say it forces you to just go 100%. (Side Note) Of course the pretime Zoro would die. He didn't know how to use haki! 😊
it is fair to say that zoro had a bigger increase than luffy during the timeskip as for one he has someone stronger than luffy and secondly he has a master better suited to his fighting style.
debatable but not impossible. My reasoning for luffy being way stronger is that rayleigh is just as suited to luffys fighting style as mihawk, since he purely trained him on haki, which is raylighs strong suit. Plus, i dont think mihawk is much stronger than rayleigh. Raylighs older and weaker, but hes still most likely relative (but slightly weaker) to mihawk
I doubt old Rayleigh is relative to any top tier, he was getting exhausted fighting Kizaru and the only thing that let him keep up even while being rusty is his haki and experience.
@@gabe5363 yeah i was really just pointing out that his reasoning actually helps zoro, personally I don't think it could be quantified as a discrete increase. It's also not a good idea to always just add up the buffs and not look at feats because the power increases aren't always linear. Disagree though with mihawk, he is beating Rayleigh low diff. Mihawk > kaido > 3 admirals. Not close.
@@thehdtv7552 understandable take. I wouldnt put mihawk above kaido, purely based on the 1v1 statement. it took G5 (a mythical zoan awakening) to wear down an already 1v12’d kaido
@@gabe5363 yeah that's only one anime only statement if I remember correctly but I also think the portrayal is swordsmen, the fact that kaido's just a punching bag for Luffy, and finally how the crew of the pirate king don't need to fear the yonkos (example that oden and gaban who's relative to him and obviously Rayleigh is are all either equal or above kaido) so zoro will be stronger than a mere yonko by the end and that's probably when he surpasses mihawk so it makes more sense for mihawk to also be stronger than the yonko. Kaido also has terrible feats, being captured many times, being scared away by shanks, being almost killed by oden (probably would've if there wasn't interference) and still counting oden as someone who could fight him.
Zoro doesn’t try until Wano, and when he does he immediately folds Killer. Killer has roof piece feats which automatically puts him above the Luffy from WCI. It’s pretty clear that Oda was purposely hiding Zoros true power during the early timeskip with fujitora
I think you might be giving Zoro too much credit, Killer was also holding back when he fought Zoro, the guy was fighting with scythes which are weapons he doesn’t even normally use.
I believe his analysis is pretty accurate, but yep, Zoro never used his full strength till Wano. Also, I think sword attacks are more powerful than punches. Also, Shusui never had an actual moment to shine post time skip. And Zoro has dedicated his life to training, is obvious he is going to be much much stronger than Sanji post time skip. The proof is Zoro fought two Yonkos and then when weakened a 1st in comando. And Sanji fought a 2nd in command when Queen was weakened for fighting Marco, Chopper. But is understandable Sanji is a Chef and his dream is All blue, Zoro is to become the strongest swordsman.
Luffy dealing no damage to kaido isn't anime only, in the manga afte the attack luffy said his attacks were too shallow, like the akazaya 9 attacks. While zoro was already able to cut kaido multiple times, add to this the overwhelming of hybrid kaido (without acoc and with 30 broken bones) and the fact zoro blocked hakai, i think that zoro on the rooftop was the strongest till luffy unlocked acoc
Thanks for watching and commenting. That’s epic you asked that I’m legit writing the script to that exact vid rn. It’ll be up in a few days so I don’t wanna spoil the answer yet lol
@joseaugustosoriano5094 It depends on how long Luffy can hold Gear 5 for. Personally I think Kaido wins because he has far better stamina and endurance. The main reason Gear 5 won is because Kaido's club couldn't get past his durability, but that could simply be because Kaido exhausted most of his haki.
@@nathanwelling8948 i dont think luffy and kaidos endurance and stamina is that far apart. The both of them were extremely exhausted by the end of the fight and luffy arguably had suffered more damage than kaido and still managed to beat him
zoro had ryo, just not internal destruction ryo hyogoro explains word for word the same thing zoros master said about a sword not cutting anything, meaning the thing zoro did back then in arabasta was ryo (again not internal destruction) so everytime zoro hakis-up his blades post time skip thats ryo
Zoro never blocked Ikoku sovereignty, he stalled it before Law saved him. If Law wasn't there then Zoro would have died. Plus Zoro broke almost all of his bones trying to stall it so no he didn't block or tank it since that would mean that Zoro would haven't recieved any damage.
@@worldbosspf1 the point is people over hype the feat. You just proved my point right. Yea Zoro stalled it but that isn't a major feat since he would be confirmed dead afterwards without the help of Law. That isn't a feat.
@@AnimeALXthe downplay on that feat is crazy, why introduce possibly the strongest attack we seen to date & having him “stall” the attack for the rest of them to get out the way BECAUSE if he didnt and they all got hit , it wouldve been game over. WHO ELSE IS STALLING THAT? Cause if someone else could im pretty sure that wouldve 🤦🏽♂️ im sensing you the same type of person who underplays “nothing happened” and says sanji taking a hit for nami and ussop was better🤦🏽♂️😂😂 fucking hate you sanji riders
@@AnimeALXEVEN IF HE WAS GONNA BE CONFIRMED DEAD IF LAW AINT SAVE HIM , SO WOULD ALL THE REST OF THEM ON THE ROOF IF HE AINT STALL IT🤦🏽♂️ why you think they was so shocked and thanked him? Why you think that scene was even added in the first place ?????? You just a dick rider if you seeing something else
@@AnimeALXlemme guess he didn’t scar kaido he just scratched him? Zoro scarred kaido after the fact 20-30 broken bones, lemme guess not a feat? Sanji kicking a seraphim away but doing 0 dmg to it is a feat? Its a feat cause he doing it solo while luffy 1000x stronger is fighting them with lucci?
Zorro was asleep so long because of all the pain he took *from* Luffy btw just pointing that out. It's also not guaranteed Lucci could solo everyone on the bridge, but Luffy didn't want to risk it. Additionally claiming Ruskaina was more dangerous is fair enough, but claiming Rayleigh was a superior teacher to mihawk is definitely pushing it. I stan Luffy over Zorro but you are really underplaying a lot of stuff, and seem to ignore a good amount of context.
thanks for watching and commenting i appreciate it. and i agree him being a better teacher is debatable. But It's likely rayleigh is more experienced and wise. Because he's 30 years older and has most likely had haki longer than mihawks been alive.
@@LeelosAdventure I can see why you would say that, though the series has shown often now that experience or years using haki doesn't count for much especially when weighed against "haki bloom".
Hey bro I did the Sanji vs zoro video btw. Sorry for the delay. It’s called “Sanji vs zoro is super close” It’s a live stream so you have to go to the “live” tab on my channel to see it. Thanks again for the view and comment bro
Do you think any 3rd comander would take on both law and luffy, tank a Gama knife, then survive an entire round of gear 4th and took KKG to knock them out?
sometimes people forget that in a fight against person stronger than himself, every character in one piece will get stronger. just like luffy, his haki blooms in that fight against katakuri. in case his haki didn't bloom, yeah luffy get folded. so, I believe (copium) zoro wano before getting enma, could somehow pull a miracle to bloom his haki to take a dub against katakuri, just like luffy did. but yeah, zoro before wano is getting folded without anytime to power up in the fight. zoro with enma tho? katakuri is getting folded, HARD. enma just brings the best out of zoro as a swordsman. but remember, zoro has potential, enma brings it out. nothing more nothing less. I dont like it when people think that enma is the one doing all the works. if you give enma to people that has no potential, they will die.
i agree, enma brought out more of his potential. It's skill based as well just like you said, because if you gave enma to pre timeskip zoro, zoro would've died. you have to be a super strong swordsman to even touch enma
I think Zoro could have beaten Katakuri while taking less damage. His swords allow him to block most things Luffy wouldn't be able to and his attacks are far more dangerous.
@@LeelosAdventureyou have to make a distinction between Direct attack And Clash of attack/blocking Example Luffy in the manga didn't block/dodge Thunder Bagua and was KO But on the rooftop Luffy barely dodged Thunder Bagua and still gets damage. So for Zoro he didn't get a direct hit by Kaido+BigMom but he blocked the attack to the best of his ability for a second so Law could teleport them away aka didn't eat 100% of the attack So it's not like Zoro can just eat Katakuri's attacks for 11 hours Unless you think King's attacks are so powerful to make Zoro think that he can't win unless he figures out what's going on (aka am taking too much damage)
I think Doflamingo is similar power to most 3rd division commanders. In early Whole Cake, Luffy is still similar to end of Dressrosa Luffy and when he fights Cracker he seems _a lot less hostile_ and angry, while he also has precisely 2 big advantages this time, due to the rain and tankman form. Whereas Doflamingo in his main fight had his haki challenged from both >~100 haki users and all of the Tontattas to drain his stamina in a long fight, all while also playing around protecting his own compromised internal organs. They seem like similar difficulty hurdles to me.
Couple of things here just starting your video you take character opinions as facts and also take a lot of Liberty with your opinion. Out of time skip Zoro didn't try all the way until pica and that was him just to get him to use haki in a fight. Early wano zoro is out of time skip zoro as he didn't get any power ups or new abilities he was just trying more than he was before. Early wano zoro is around yc3 maybe a little stronger so out of time skip he was that strong. We know in wano zoro already knew adcoa so our of time skip he had this strong ability but just didn't use it. The Lucci point is just dumb. No Lucci couldn't solo all the sh's just because he said he could and yea he probably could kill some if Luffy let him go. Luffy didn't know about monster point, Sanji dj which bypassed tenkai, zoro's asura which destroyed kaku to the point he couldn't move. No there wasn't this massive gap as in the very next arc Zoro was only a little weaker than Luffy so where did that gap go? In SA Sanji shown he could fight as well as g2 Luffy and Zoro didn't again look much weaker than Luffy so where did this massive gap of Luffy being able to solo the crew go in the very next arcs? Characters opinions are that opinions otherwise every character that said they will be pk will be pk because they said. There's a difference between what a character believes and what a character is stating as fact. Luffy's opinion is that they'll survive but some of the sh's could have easily died while he was fighting Lucci. And luffy's full point not just that panel was that his crew had weaker members but others in his crew were strong enough to protect them so he couldn't allow Lucci to go.
1. You over estimate Zoro barely blocking hakai For 1 second from a Holding back Kaido And bigmom 2. Zoro never learned or has ryou i don't know why people think this he is just strengthing his basic armament and adv. Conquers 3. You Underrate katakuri's Attack Potency and attack power He barely used his spear aka his Main fighting Style and his Superior Armament haki He only used these 2 assets for 5 attacks And stopped because he started to like and respect luffy (The times he used it Where When Luffy's armament and hands burned in base and gear 4 snakman) Im not saying katakuri using 100% of his capapbilities Will be stronger than a Holding back Kaido and Bigmom But katakuri is closer than Most people think If katakuri used 100% of his assets Like -his construct creation and Traps with his hard heavy Sticky and fire mochi -He utilized his Superior armament haki -He utilized his Spear and used his Spear technqiues Luffy dies low diff Katakuri purposely nerfed himself as well tanking hits that he did not need black mamba kibg cobra etc. NAMED attacks that were supercharged He tanked On purpose He could have easily captured luffy's fist from King cobra like he did to a Kong gun Katakuri stopped using the Battlefield to attack as well Katakuri is underrated and no diffs Current Zoro Get Zoro Past lucci then we will talk
Zoro has ryuo. HOW ELSE DO YOU EXPLAIN ZORO TAMING ENMA? ENMA DRAWS HAKI OUT OF THE USER (ryuo = flowing haki) kiado literally saw flying dragon blaze and it reminded him of Odens haki which is ryuo. Did you really think that zoro saw all those Wano samurai doing ryuo and didn't want to learn that for himself? He didn't need to learn ryuo because he already had tht skill. Zoro is an armament haki specialist. Any application of moving haki from inside ones body to outside is flowing haki, which Luffy did not have until Wano. coating swords in haki and sending flying haki slashes is all ryuo.
I think a bunch of points were wrong but I won't ramble. 1 thing tho you said smt about zoro not cutting the bird cage because his haki wasn't strong enough? I'm not sure if you rember but Marine ADMIRAL fugitora who is stronger than doffy, zoro, and any at least 2nd commander was right next to him. He did not cut the birdcage either even though he was trying to save civilians, meaning it was unable to be cut for some reason (honestly don't know) but ye
Just saying something. We all know that Shanks and Prime Garp can take on Kaido and Big Mom in a 1v1 and still win. So Kaido and Big Mom’s combined attack is the strongest we have seen so far, so imagine, Shanks’ Divine Departure and Prime Garp’s Galaxy Fist combined, or even crazier! ROGER’s Divine Departure and Prime Garp’s Galaxy Fist COMBINED!!! Edit: I’ve LITERALLY heard people say: “Current Manga Zoro> Oden”… so you’re telling me, that Mange Zoro can fight equally with Roger and Whitebeard. Listen, Zoro is my second favourite character in Anime, but, no, just, not yet, end of series Zoro, maybe, but not current Zoro.
From the Ennies Lobby arc zoro also has 2 power up: gorilla, then ashura. Even if Oda doesn't use it anymore. So the scales should be Sanji diable jambe = gorilla = gear second < ashura = gear third = Hell memories
And then there's the fact that not even ryou can damage flame on King, though I do believe it can affect his ability to keep the flame on, like every time he takes damage his flame mode gets weaker and weaker until he has to turn it off to recharge it. At least that's what I thnk. And then there's the fact that he got stronger as he used Enma, even on the ground floor he was training himself to control more of his haki with Enma so that he could release more and do more damage.
What you seem to forget is that Zoro's attacks are far more debilitating than Luffy's. Zoro does far more damage simply because he uses far more dangerous weapons. Then there's the fact that he trained for two years with a black blade. It's possible Zoro could have cut through the strings that Doflamingo uses to defend himself and done serious damage. If Zoro had aimed an attack at Law for him to switch with Doflamingo and catch him off guard it would have cut pretty deep.
Great question man. It hasn’t been confirmed yet if luffy has been using ryo or not against them. That’s why I was saying it might be immune to ryo too but I hope they are not. We still have to wait for oda to confirm that one
Zoro got advanced armament haki when he obtained Enma. Yes he briefly used it during Mr. 1 fight but he couldn't tap into it on command until he received Enma. The only thing Zoro could do is control what he cut but he couldn't do internal damage or emission.
@AnimeALX When Hyogoro explained advanced armament he used the same explanation we got in Zoro's flashback and stated that it was the only way to coat swords. Luffy simply has an extra level to it which Zoro might have now.
The problem with this analysis is, that its based to much on cold logic. Cold logic is the right way to scale real fighters and fights but not the right way to scale fictional fighers and fights. Oda has very likley not done the exact maths but a rough estimation for the powerlevels of his characters which leads to alot of inconsistancy (especally when it comes to powerups). Therefore Katakuris punches would very likley hurt Zoro and even if they didnt, he could potentially still trap and suffocate Zoro with his Mochi. Zoro would also a have alot of trouble against Katakuris observation haki. At the end Zoro would very likley still win but only mid-high diff.
In a nutshell: Kaido wins because Kaido fought a bunch of fodders (taking out Zoro´s last attack) that Kaido himself and after him Luffy in his own said that just had done shallow damage, just ignoring all the context that clearly shows that Luffy was in worst shape than Kaido at the final clash (The damage he had already taken didnt just disappeared because G5, besides the cost of keep G5 on), Luffy did at least the 95% of the job... And no, this is not Pokemon, they are not two Pokemon attacking by turn, Rayleigh clearly set that Haki = Power, the more strong your haki is, stronger you are, so, when Kaido got drunk, he wasnt weaker than before just because he was in "worst shape", he was indeed stronger, Luffy said his Haki got stronger. And that is the same with the final clash, that was literally a Haki Clash, Luffy in worst shape, being barely able to keep up send Kaido to hell, so at the end: Luffy´s Haki > Kaido´s Haki, that is the same that Luffy > Kaido (Kaido himself believed that when he is falling, so, who should I believe? Headcannons or Kaido himself?)... Well, at the point that I heard that Prime Whitebeard could Midd Diff 1 Admiral I imagined what you would said
Zoro has been stronger than katakuri and luffy since time skip. Hell zoro and luffy are practically the same power wise if you dont include gear 5th. literally the only power up we see zoro get at all after time skip is ennma, and all ennma does is give him more damage. Damage isnt something he needs to beat katakuri or luffy at that time he had plenty pre wano.
The Zoro slander and enma hype is ridiculous. Besides the short clash with an admiral, Zoro never is pushed until Wano. Why are you acting like his durability is dramatically higher in Wano than fishman island? I'd tell you about a durability feat Zoro has pretime skip but nothing happened. You say post time skip Ashura is the same as pretime skip. But you also noted ALL of his other attacks have been upgraded. His strongest attack was too. It's narratively in line with Sanji ifrits jambe. Zoro may not have the travel speed of Luffy and Sanji. But his reaction time in combat is comparable if not outright superior when future sight isn't in the equation. Fishman island Zoro destroys Kuckakuri medium-high diff.
Zoro would have had a far easier time against Cracker than Luffy. He has the destructive capability to completely annihilate Cracker's army at the time and is far more skilled in swordsmanship. Not only that but he spent two years in a much more dangerous environment training with a sword that would belong to a 2nd commander level swordsman.
@Khaled68335 Zoro's reaction time is faster than Luffy's and his attacks had more range than Gear 4. After he destroyed a few biscuits all he would have to do is get in close and keep Cracker's hands occupied, and Zoro would absolutely destroy him in a sword fight at that time. And Zoro actually would have been able to compete with Gear 4 in pure physical strength, the elasticity just provides extra power.
@kingrippzard2027 Zoro already had advanced armament even before Wano, and he had a black blade. He also didn't have the stamina problem that Gear 4 has, he didn't use his gorilla technique even once before Wano and then there's his Dragon Twister which he cut Kaido with while using as little haki as he thought necessary with a weapon that he had no control over. Zoro was third commander level with Shusui.
I think Katakuri was strong before fighting Luffy but I'd say he's like 10 times stronger now because it really looked like he didn't have that many moves but now he has loads of new moves he copied from Luffy and because of the nature of his powers he could likely make them even stronger
Tbh i think fishman island zoeo is stronger than fishman island luffy an zoro didnt get his next powerup untill enma and stayed basically the same strength whereas luffy had to learn advanced observation to be at 1st comander level and ryonl and conqures coating to be able to hurt kaido zoro got a new sword and scared kaido
Katakuri vs all pre time skip zoro katakuri neg dif Katakuri vs fishman island zoro katakuri low dif Katakuri vs dressrosa katakuri mid dif Katakuri vs zoro(fighting killer) zoro high/extreme dif Katakuri vs roof top zoro zoro mid/high dif Katakuri vs king of hell zoro zoro low dif Katakuri vs current zoro zoro no/low dif Sadly kat god powercliffed
@AnimeALX It's true that Lucci would have recovered his stamina much more quickly, but he would have gone straight for the crew and Usopp would have been his first target, he would be so focused on Usopp that Zoro would either just barely nick him or actually dig pretty deep. The only way I can see Zoro beating Lucci is with no outside help, which would not have been possible with all the people on the bridge, but he would have heavily damaged him, possibly enoufor Franky to finish him off but that's doubtful. Personally I think Zoro coming out of the time skip in base was relative to Gear 4 in pure physical strength, but the elasticity provided would have e given Luffy a major edge, except for the fact that Zoro can cut through the haki.
No way.. Zoro was actually trained by Mihawk the entire time during the timeskip, whereas Rayleigh just gave luffy some pointers and left. Clearly, Zoro's training was far superior to luffy's during the timeskip and he got a much bigger powerup than Luffy did. Also, Mihawk is just a more compatible trainer than Rayleigh... he is literally the greatest swords master and all of Zoro's strength is sword related.. Rayleigh isn't even a devil fruit user, Luffy just basically had to work out gear 4 by himself.
this is disingenuous. infact, a blatant lie? rayleigh trained luffy for 1 year, 6 months. Non stop, and they were in the wild. A “harsh environment” where the seasons change 48 times a year?? luffy only trained 6 months by himself, rayleigh taught him all 3 basic forms of haki. and he and luffy, together used G4. He learnt/creates it with rayleigh, this is shown in a flashback. Zoros training wasn’t better or worse, they are inherently equal as zoro had to take time to rest. & he wasn’t training 24/7 in a harsh embodiment. This is shown by perona. Make your lies believable. You’d lose this debate.
mihawks stronger, but rayleighs just more wise. dudes seen the one piece, travelled with roger, and is older so has had haki longer. rayliegh is big epic for training
@LeelosAdventure yeah I don't know how we reasonably can estimate who's a better teacher. I would assume that being the pirate King's right-hand would probably make you provide some more knowledge. Also assume they're being older getting more time to hone your ability to teach young people. Has mihawk had other students b4?
@@LeelosAdventure but other than that you right lol. 😂 Zoro without enma was 3rd commander level. I’m be honest I was those guys that said Zoro in wano while they was in wci would beat katakuri lol.
@@triumphTLG yeah thats a good question bro. its interesting to think about. i feel like luffy and raylieghs connection is a lot closer than mihawks and zoros. luffy and rayliegh have so many epic parallels going on with roger. but mihawk does swing that sword super big, and hes op. tbh i see where youre coming from
Zoro in dresrossa is so overrated not only did Sanji who’s relative to Zoro get packed by Doffy but Sanji also broke his leg by kicking Vergo who wasn’t using full body armament haki and he lost to Law eventhough Vergo had the advantage by having his heart, Zoro gets packed by Smoker
What are you thinking about. Zoro was clashing with Fujitora and no-diffi Pika, who is at the level or stronger than Vergo. While Law needed Smoker help to defeat Vergo. Zoro>>Law>>Pika>Vergo>>Smoker
Pika was not stronger than Vergo. Stop the cap. Vergo was a vice admiral in the Marines and a master at rokushiki and can perform full body armament haki (later shown as Tekkai). He is WAYYYYY stronger than Pica and was Doffy's right hand man. If pica was stronger than Vergo then he would have been 2nd in command. Also Law was and will always be stronger than Zoro. Law was stronger than Sanji, Zoro ALWAYS scales to Sanji, and Law is worth 3 billion as of now which is the same amount the admirals are worth. Zoro extreme diffed a 1YC from 100% and almost died and went into a coma for 7 days and admirals are confirmed stronger than 1YC which puts Law (who is relative to the admirals) higher than Zoro.
@AnimeALX Pika had more destruction power than Vergo, same all full body armament haki and Pika was nilumber 2. Pika has a better portrait and showed more power.
@@metalme2306 yet pica got absolutely lobotomized by Zoro while Vergo was an entire dura tier above Sanji who’s relative to Zoro without even using full body armament
Crocodile is probably going to get the Lucci treatment and be much stronger than his pre time skip self. Doflamingo is in prison. Crocodile is probably stronger. Even though he probably shouldn't be lol. Plot needs to plot sometimes
First of all, Zoro is not faster than WCI Luffy lmao Zoro was relative to base luffy in Wano in terms of speed, while Katakuri literally speed blitzed Snakeman Luffy the form that Kaido was struggling to dodge against. So bro, if you're scaling at least say things correctly. So base Luffy = Snakeman Luffy? This is a straight up copium. Obviously Zoro wins, but you have a lot of coping in your video.
Zoro, along with killer, was able to blitz base kaido and outspeed big mom(with her homies) a couple times. Base kaido blitzed gear4 luffy(wasn’t using future sight). So base kaido should be somewhat relative to katakuri in speed because they both can blitz luffy if he doesn’t use future sight. Katakuri never blitzed luffy after he got future sight. He just didn’t expect him to turn into a donut and go straight for him after luffy threw the attack. He could react to the same “donut form” later on when he wasn’t putting all his momentum into an attack and when he actually knew that katakuri could move like that. He isn’t coping, Zoro is just fast.
@@biasedpotato8511 Zoro is fast, but let's be real the reason why Zoro speed blitzed Kaido was because he didn't take him seriously And if you remember, Luffy actually landed about 3 attacks on Kaido but it did no damage, that was the problem not the speed And you literally described the meaning of speed blitzing, Luffy was attacking Katakuri but he was able to dodge everything and speed blitz him, that's basically what happened Zoro is fast but he is not faster than WCI Luffy, that's a straight up copium Zoro wins against Katakuri though, he is one of the strongest YC1
@@Idookkdsofksa kaido had his club in an attacking position and he was attacking luffy moments before so it makes more sense that Kaido got blitzed. He wouldn’t have put his club in an attack ready position if he wasn’t planning on doing anything. Either way he was still out speeding big mom who should be a good amount faster than kaido due to her homies that amp her speed. Kaido blitzed luffy in the manga. I’m guessing you’re talking about the anime. Two people that are relative in speed can dodge each others attacks and counter them. If I put most of my weight into throwing a punch with my right arm, it would be easy to dodge by looking at the way I move my body. And then it would be easy to counter because my weight is going towards that direction. And I definitely wouldn’t react as fast if I saw my opponent turn into a donut and start spinning towards me. He reacted to the same exact attack from a seemingly closer range right after this so they are still clearly relative in speed.
@@biasedpotato8511 Nah, Big Mom isn't faster than Kaido, Big Mom only had Zeus and the sun but Kaido in his hybird form is def faster than BM imo. Luffy got speed blitzed. Stop making excuses and trying to prove that he wasn't. Katakuri dodged Snakeman Luffy like it's nothing after understanding how it works, then turned himself into a donut and attacked Luffy with Luffy not being able to react, that's called speed blitzing. Katakuri speed blitzed him. Stop coping. You are wrong here. WCI Luffy Snakeman is faster than Zoro, and Katakuri was faster than Snakeman.
@@Idookkdsofksa big mom is faster than base kaido which is all that matters. Luffy literally reacts to the same exact attack right after that from a closer distance. Later on we see a panel of them hitting each other with the same amount of attacks simultaneously. He also wrote that they can see the same future. Oda couldn’t have made it more obvious that they are relative in speed.
I knew this is one of those bad scaling video that's why i skipped to the end and i was right lol, Zoro not beating Katakuri without future sight or something as fast as snake man that even made Kaido use future sight to dodge. L biased video.
Thanks for watching and commenting. That’s a fair point. But we’ve seen you can overpower future sight if you are fast enough. Kaido does this to luffy at the start of the rooftop fight. Seeing how zoro scales in reaction speed to combined ikouku sovereignty from kaido and big mom. You can make an argument he could outspeed katakuris future sight as well
Furthermore. Seeing how zoros base attacks would nearly one tap katakuri. And katakuri could slam zoro for 11 hrs straight and still not win, it’s far more likely zoro would win the battle. All he has to do is get katakuri angry once. And slash him and it’s a wrap. Similar to how a weaker luffy did.
But if you objectively believe you have found points that I haven’t. Then I truly want you to share them. If it’s something I haven’t considered I’ll give you a shout out in next vid. Because one of main reasons I make these vids is to make powerscaling that most accurately represents how oda would scale his characters. If you got better info, let me know so I can update and make better vids
@@LeelosAdventure No, we did not see, Kaido didn't land the hit cleanly on Luffy he even said to Luffy good job on not letting the same attack hit. That was base Luffy who's slower that Katakuri btw Luffy saw that attack coming first with future sight, katakuri will see it too There's no way Zoro can outspeed future sight when he scales to gear 2 speed at best, snake man >>>>>> gear 2
Whoever wins the scaler loses. Such is the way of the One Piece community.
When Zoro first uses Enma we are told that it simply exudes it's wielder's ryuo on its own. This would imply that Enma itself was not boosting Zoro's power but instead not letting him hold back.
i agree, i would say enma draws out his hidden potential. But you have to be experienced and strong to even wield it.
for example if pretime skip zoro wielded enma he would've died.
@@LeelosAdventureFor sure.
@@LeelosAdventureZoro was on overdrive with Emna, that's why he was risking Death...
It's not like G4th (too much haki used, so take a break for 10min)
but see actual Death and be out cold for 7days level of effort because Emma requires for example 1100point output, which at the point is 110% Zoro who can output safely 1000point without dying
When Zoro gets more powerful Haki then he can use Emma with same output but less relative impact because his 100% becomes 1500points
But when
not ryu 😂😂
haki 😂😂😂
ryu is a special technique of coating 😂😂 and not any power scaling!
Strength & skills are two different things 🎉🎉
@@LeelosAdventureyou're making more assumptions to state it draws out hidden potential. Then it takes to say it forces you to just go 100%. (Side Note) Of course the pretime Zoro would die. He didn't know how to use haki! 😊
it is fair to say that zoro had a bigger increase than luffy during the timeskip as for one he has someone stronger than luffy and secondly he has a master better suited to his fighting style.
debatable but not impossible. My reasoning for luffy being way stronger is that rayleigh is just as suited to luffys fighting style as mihawk, since he purely trained him on haki, which is raylighs strong suit. Plus, i dont think mihawk is much stronger than rayleigh. Raylighs older and weaker, but hes still most likely relative (but slightly weaker) to mihawk
I doubt old Rayleigh is relative to any top tier, he was getting exhausted fighting Kizaru and the only thing that let him keep up even while being rusty is his haki and experience.
@@gabe5363 yeah i was really just pointing out that his reasoning actually helps zoro, personally I don't think it could be quantified as a discrete increase. It's also not a good idea to always just add up the buffs and not look at feats because the power increases aren't always linear. Disagree though with mihawk, he is beating Rayleigh low diff. Mihawk > kaido > 3 admirals. Not close.
@@thehdtv7552 understandable take. I wouldnt put mihawk above kaido, purely based on the 1v1 statement. it took G5 (a mythical zoan awakening) to wear down an already 1v12’d kaido
@@gabe5363 yeah that's only one anime only statement if I remember correctly but I also think the portrayal is swordsmen, the fact that kaido's just a punching bag for Luffy, and finally how the crew of the pirate king don't need to fear the yonkos (example that oden and gaban who's relative to him and obviously Rayleigh is are all either equal or above kaido) so zoro will be stronger than a mere yonko by the end and that's probably when he surpasses mihawk so it makes more sense for mihawk to also be stronger than the yonko. Kaido also has terrible feats, being captured many times, being scared away by shanks, being almost killed by oden (probably would've if there wasn't interference) and still counting oden as someone who could fight him.
Zoro doesn’t try until Wano, and when he does he immediately folds Killer. Killer has roof piece feats which automatically puts him above the Luffy from WCI. It’s pretty clear that Oda was purposely hiding Zoros true power during the early timeskip with fujitora
I think you might be giving Zoro too much credit, Killer was also holding back when he fought Zoro, the guy was fighting with scythes which are weapons he doesn’t even normally use.
@@DragonSword227 I agree that Killer wasn’t at full power, but neither was Zoro, plus zoro was being distracted
@@Tupptuppiscoolyeah everytime zoro tried to attack doffy oda always used fujitora to protect him
@@DragonSword227The scythe were actually somewhat similar to his original weapons.
None of killers feats puts him above wci luffys, if u think using dura neg = being stronger and faster then your a lost cause
Have a great day everybody :)
zoro never really went all out till wano after timeskip so you cant really judge his power based on the previous arcs
I believe his analysis is pretty accurate, but yep, Zoro never used his full strength till Wano. Also, I think sword attacks are more powerful than punches. Also, Shusui never had an actual moment to shine post time skip.
And Zoro has dedicated his life to training, is obvious he is going to be much much stronger than Sanji post time skip.
The proof is Zoro fought two Yonkos and then when weakened a 1st in comando. And Sanji fought a 2nd in command when Queen was weakened for fighting Marco, Chopper. But is understandable Sanji is a Chef and his dream is All blue, Zoro is to become the strongest swordsman.
I’m pretty sure he went all out against Pica.
@@DragonSword227 no he didn't, even in this video its said he easily cut pica in multiple pieces with unnamed attacks
@@DragonSword227 none of zoros enemies were strong enough for him to go all out
@@DragonSword227
LOL
Thank you LeeLos putting my suggestion. Your a goat man.
the community tab bros know this vid was a wild ride
Luffy dealing no damage to kaido isn't anime only, in the manga afte the attack luffy said his attacks were too shallow, like the akazaya 9 attacks.
While zoro was already able to cut kaido multiple times, add to this the overwhelming of hybrid kaido (without acoc and with 30 broken bones) and the fact zoro blocked hakai, i think that zoro on the rooftop was the strongest till luffy unlocked acoc
Honestly it’s weird to scale Zoro’s attacks to Luffy’s with Luffy being a brawler and Zoro being a slasher
Bro this was such a good one, love these longer videos
Thanks bro really appreciate. Was worried about this one cuz zoro is cherished by many
About flame mode of the Lunarians, Luffy in Gear four during Egg Head cant dmg the serafins, so i think the lunarian flame on ignotes even ryuou
In your opinion, who do you think is stronger, Gear 5 luffy or full stamina Kaido?
Thanks for watching and commenting. That’s epic you asked that I’m legit writing the script to that exact vid rn.
It’ll be up in a few days so I don’t wanna spoil the answer yet lol
@@LeelosAdventureyea luffy destroys, tell them to stop coping
Full stamina Kaidou, that's not even a question my guy, tho it would be hard-extreme diff (more of Extreme)
@joseaugustosoriano5094 It depends on how long Luffy can hold Gear 5 for. Personally I think Kaido wins because he has far better stamina and endurance. The main reason Gear 5 won is because Kaido's club couldn't get past his durability, but that could simply be because Kaido exhausted most of his haki.
@@nathanwelling8948 i dont think luffy and kaidos endurance and stamina is that far apart. The both of them were extremely exhausted by the end of the fight and luffy arguably had suffered more damage than kaido and still managed to beat him
zoro had ryo, just not internal destruction ryo
hyogoro explains word for word the same thing zoros master said about a sword not cutting anything, meaning the thing zoro did back then in arabasta was ryo (again not internal destruction)
so everytime zoro hakis-up his blades post time skip thats ryo
W video great video
Thanks bro, and you have a w username too lol
Damnn i thought you had more subs good shit man
thanks bro i appreciate that
Zoro never blocked Ikoku sovereignty, he stalled it before Law saved him. If Law wasn't there then Zoro would have died. Plus Zoro broke almost all of his bones trying to stall it so no he didn't block or tank it since that would mean that Zoro would haven't recieved any damage.
@@worldbosspf1 the point is people over hype the feat. You just proved my point right. Yea Zoro stalled it but that isn't a major feat since he would be confirmed dead afterwards without the help of Law. That isn't a feat.
@@worldbosspf1 what? I couldn't really comprehend the sentence? can you explain more?
@@AnimeALXthe downplay on that feat is crazy, why introduce possibly the strongest attack we seen to date & having him “stall” the attack for the rest of them to get out the way BECAUSE if he didnt and they all got hit , it wouldve been game over. WHO ELSE IS STALLING THAT? Cause if someone else could im pretty sure that wouldve 🤦🏽♂️ im sensing you the same type of person who underplays “nothing happened” and says sanji taking a hit for nami and ussop was better🤦🏽♂️😂😂 fucking hate you sanji riders
@@AnimeALXEVEN IF HE WAS GONNA BE CONFIRMED DEAD IF LAW AINT SAVE HIM , SO WOULD ALL THE REST OF THEM ON THE ROOF IF HE AINT STALL IT🤦🏽♂️ why you think they was so shocked and thanked him? Why you think that scene was even added in the first place ?????? You just a dick rider if you seeing something else
@@AnimeALXlemme guess he didn’t scar kaido he just scratched him? Zoro scarred kaido after the fact 20-30 broken bones, lemme guess not a feat? Sanji kicking a seraphim away but doing 0 dmg to it is a feat? Its a feat cause he doing it solo while luffy 1000x stronger is fighting them with lucci?
Zorro was asleep so long because of all the pain he took *from* Luffy btw just pointing that out.
It's also not guaranteed Lucci could solo everyone on the bridge, but Luffy didn't want to risk it.
Additionally claiming Ruskaina was more dangerous is fair enough, but claiming Rayleigh was a superior teacher to mihawk is definitely pushing it.
I stan Luffy over Zorro but you are really underplaying a lot of stuff, and seem to ignore a good amount of context.
thanks for watching and commenting i appreciate it.
and i agree him being a better teacher is debatable. But It's likely rayleigh is more experienced and wise. Because he's 30 years older and has most likely had haki longer than mihawks been alive.
@@LeelosAdventure I can see why you would say that, though the series has shown often now that experience or years using haki doesn't count for much especially when weighed against "haki bloom".
@@LeelosAdventureKaido has used haki longer than Luffy, how did their fight go again?
Rayleigh is definitely better what? Luffy left the skip with Haki yes, but also mastery of gear 2,3 and the unlock of 4. Zoro only got Haki.
@@kingrippzard2027 That just means Zoro had more time to focus on his swordsmanship.
Bro this vidoe was AWESOME!!! Could you please do a video on Sanji Vs Zoro
thanks for saying that dude and yep i will
Hey bro I did the Sanji vs zoro video btw. Sorry for the delay. It’s called “Sanji vs zoro is super close”
It’s a live stream so you have to go to the “live” tab on my channel to see it. Thanks again for the view and comment bro
@LeelosAdventure yoooooo that's really cool thank you for remembering me man . I'll Check it out now
Do you think any 3rd comander would take on both law and luffy, tank a Gama knife, then survive an entire round of gear 4th and took KKG to knock them out?
sometimes people forget that in a fight against person stronger than himself, every character in one piece will get stronger.
just like luffy, his haki blooms in that fight against katakuri. in case his haki didn't bloom, yeah luffy get folded.
so, I believe (copium) zoro wano before getting enma, could somehow pull a miracle to bloom his haki to take a dub against katakuri, just like luffy did.
but yeah, zoro before wano is getting folded without anytime to power up in the fight.
zoro with enma tho? katakuri is getting folded, HARD.
enma just brings the best out of zoro as a swordsman. but remember, zoro has potential, enma brings it out. nothing more nothing less. I dont like it when people think that enma is the one doing all the works. if you give enma to people that has no potential, they will die.
i agree, enma brought out more of his potential. It's skill based as well just like you said, because if you gave enma to pre timeskip zoro, zoro would've died.
you have to be a super strong swordsman to even touch enma
I think Zoro could have beaten Katakuri while taking less damage. His swords allow him to block most things Luffy wouldn't be able to and his attacks are far more dangerous.
@@LeelosAdventureyou have to make a distinction between
Direct attack
And
Clash of attack/blocking
Example Luffy in the manga didn't block/dodge Thunder Bagua and was KO
But on the rooftop Luffy barely dodged Thunder Bagua and still gets damage.
So for Zoro he didn't get a direct hit by Kaido+BigMom but he blocked the attack to the best of his ability for a second so Law could teleport them away aka didn't eat 100% of the attack
So it's not like Zoro can just eat Katakuri's attacks for 11 hours
Unless you think King's attacks are so powerful to make Zoro think that he can't win unless he figures out what's going on (aka am taking too much damage)
this bouta enhance my food
UA-cam’s my favorite seasoning tbh
I think Doflamingo is similar power to most 3rd division commanders. In early Whole Cake, Luffy is still similar to end of Dressrosa Luffy and when he fights Cracker he seems _a lot less hostile_ and angry, while he also has precisely 2 big advantages this time, due to the rain and tankman form. Whereas Doflamingo in his main fight had his haki challenged from both >~100 haki users and all of the Tontattas to drain his stamina in a long fight, all while also playing around protecting his own compromised internal organs. They seem like similar difficulty hurdles to me.
Couple of things here just starting your video you take character opinions as facts and also take a lot of Liberty with your opinion. Out of time skip Zoro didn't try all the way until pica and that was him just to get him to use haki in a fight. Early wano zoro is out of time skip zoro as he didn't get any power ups or new abilities he was just trying more than he was before. Early wano zoro is around yc3 maybe a little stronger so out of time skip he was that strong. We know in wano zoro already knew adcoa so our of time skip he had this strong ability but just didn't use it.
The Lucci point is just dumb. No Lucci couldn't solo all the sh's just because he said he could and yea he probably could kill some if Luffy let him go. Luffy didn't know about monster point, Sanji dj which bypassed tenkai, zoro's asura which destroyed kaku to the point he couldn't move. No there wasn't this massive gap as in the very next arc Zoro was only a little weaker than Luffy so where did that gap go? In SA Sanji shown he could fight as well as g2 Luffy and Zoro didn't again look much weaker than Luffy so where did this massive gap of Luffy being able to solo the crew go in the very next arcs? Characters opinions are that opinions otherwise every character that said they will be pk will be pk because they said. There's a difference between what a character believes and what a character is stating as fact. Luffy's opinion is that they'll survive but some of the sh's could have easily died while he was fighting Lucci. And luffy's full point not just that panel was that his crew had weaker members but others in his crew were strong enough to protect them so he couldn't allow Lucci to go.
1. You over estimate Zoro barely blocking hakai For 1 second
from a Holding back Kaido And bigmom
2. Zoro never learned or has ryou i don't know why people think this he is just strengthing his basic armament and adv. Conquers
3. You Underrate katakuri's Attack Potency and attack power
He barely used his spear aka his Main fighting Style and his Superior Armament haki
He only used these 2 assets for 5 attacks
And stopped because he started to like and respect luffy
(The times he used it Where When Luffy's armament and hands burned in base and gear 4 snakman)
Im not saying katakuri using 100% of his capapbilities
Will be stronger than a Holding back Kaido and Bigmom
But katakuri is closer than Most people think
If katakuri used 100% of his assets
Like
-his construct creation and Traps with his hard heavy Sticky and fire mochi
-He utilized his Superior armament haki
-He utilized his Spear and used his Spear technqiues
Luffy dies low diff
Katakuri purposely nerfed himself as well tanking hits that he did not need black mamba kibg cobra etc.
NAMED attacks that were supercharged
He tanked On purpose
He could have easily captured luffy's fist from King cobra like he did to a Kong gun
Katakuri stopped using the Battlefield to attack as well
Katakuri is underrated and no diffs Current Zoro
Get Zoro Past lucci then we will talk
Zoro has ryuo.
HOW ELSE DO YOU EXPLAIN ZORO TAMING ENMA?
ENMA DRAWS HAKI OUT OF THE USER (ryuo = flowing haki)
kiado literally saw flying dragon blaze and it reminded him of Odens haki which is ryuo.
Did you really think that zoro saw all those Wano samurai doing ryuo and didn't want to learn that for himself?
He didn't need to learn ryuo because he already had tht skill.
Zoro is an armament haki specialist.
Any application of moving haki from inside ones body to outside is flowing haki, which Luffy did not have until Wano. coating swords in haki and sending flying haki slashes is all ryuo.
I think a bunch of points were wrong but I won't ramble. 1 thing tho you said smt about zoro not cutting the bird cage because his haki wasn't strong enough? I'm not sure if you rember but Marine ADMIRAL fugitora who is stronger than doffy, zoro, and any at least 2nd commander was right next to him. He did not cut the birdcage either even though he was trying to save civilians, meaning it was unable to be cut for some reason (honestly don't know) but ye
Just saying something. We all know that Shanks and Prime Garp can take on Kaido and Big Mom in a 1v1 and still win. So Kaido and Big Mom’s combined attack is the strongest we have seen so far, so imagine, Shanks’ Divine Departure and Prime Garp’s Galaxy Fist combined, or even crazier! ROGER’s Divine Departure and Prime Garp’s Galaxy Fist COMBINED!!!
Edit: I’ve LITERALLY heard people say: “Current Manga Zoro> Oden”… so you’re telling me, that Mange Zoro can fight equally with Roger and Whitebeard. Listen, Zoro is my second favourite character in Anime, but, no, just, not yet, end of series Zoro, maybe, but not current Zoro.
Think it was stated somewhere that zoro and luffy are pretty much equal during enies lobby
From the Ennies Lobby arc zoro also has 2 power up: gorilla, then ashura. Even if Oda doesn't use it anymore. So the scales should be
Sanji diable jambe = gorilla = gear second < ashura = gear third = Hell memories
Zoro not touching Doflamingo.
But he definitely can clash with fujitora.
You have the same level of brain as luffy, without all the good qualities
He couldn’t clash with Fuji, he was struggling against Fuji unnamed base attack
Nice
Thanks for watching and commenting I appreciate it
you realize luffy had ryo but needed conq to compete against kaido right? when its stated that king flames on has higher dura
And then there's the fact that not even ryou can damage flame on King, though I do believe it can affect his ability to keep the flame on, like every time he takes damage his flame mode gets weaker and weaker until he has to turn it off to recharge it. At least that's what I thnk.
And then there's the fact that he got stronger as he used Enma, even on the ground floor he was training himself to control more of his haki with Enma so that he could release more and do more damage.
Zoro could take out katakuri no-low diff
What you seem to forget is that Zoro's attacks are far more debilitating than Luffy's. Zoro does far more damage simply because he uses far more dangerous weapons. Then there's the fact that he trained for two years with a black blade. It's possible Zoro could have cut through the strings that Doflamingo uses to defend himself and done serious damage. If Zoro had aimed an attack at Law for him to switch with Doflamingo and catch him off guard it would have cut pretty deep.
wait so then are we supposed to be assuming that luffy just wasn't using ryou against the seraphim?
Great question man. It hasn’t been confirmed yet if luffy has been using ryo or not against them.
That’s why I was saying it might be immune to ryo too but I hope they are not.
We still have to wait for oda to confirm that one
Zoro had advanced armament coming out of the time skip and he would have taken far less hits than Luffy since he actually had a way to block.
Zoro got advanced armament haki when he obtained Enma. Yes he briefly used it during Mr. 1 fight but he couldn't tap into it on command until he received Enma. The only thing Zoro could do is control what he cut but he couldn't do internal damage or emission.
@@AnimeALX He used emission when he coated his swords to cut Pica.
@@nathanwelling8948 no he didn't. He used basic hardening. Emission is when you shoot out your armament haki in a concentrated blast like Sentomaru.
@AnimeALX When Hyogoro explained advanced armament he used the same explanation we got in Zoro's flashback and stated that it was the only way to coat swords. Luffy simply has an extra level to it which Zoro might have now.
@@AnimeALX hardening is where a limb is coated. Emission is where you let it flow out of your body.
Luffy did fight in the Colosseum and had to fight his way up to the top before he could even fight Doflamingo!
The battle starts and... Sanji disappears
The problem with this analysis is, that its based to much on cold logic.
Cold logic is the right way to scale real fighters and fights but not the right way to scale fictional fighers and fights.
Oda has very likley not done the exact maths but a rough estimation for the powerlevels of his characters which leads to alot of inconsistancy (especally when it comes to powerups).
Therefore Katakuris punches would very likley hurt Zoro and even if they didnt, he could potentially still trap and suffocate Zoro with his Mochi.
Zoro would also a have alot of trouble against Katakuris observation haki.
At the end Zoro would very likley still win but only mid-high diff.
In a nutshell: Kaido wins because Kaido fought a bunch of fodders (taking out Zoro´s last attack) that Kaido himself and after him Luffy in his own said that just had done shallow damage, just ignoring all the context that clearly shows that Luffy was in worst shape than Kaido at the final clash (The damage he had already taken didnt just disappeared because G5, besides the cost of keep G5 on), Luffy did at least the 95% of the job... And no, this is not Pokemon, they are not two Pokemon attacking by turn, Rayleigh clearly set that Haki = Power, the more strong your haki is, stronger you are, so, when Kaido got drunk, he wasnt weaker than before just because he was in "worst shape", he was indeed stronger, Luffy said his Haki got stronger. And that is the same with the final clash, that was literally a Haki Clash, Luffy in worst shape, being barely able to keep up send Kaido to hell, so at the end: Luffy´s Haki > Kaido´s Haki, that is the same that Luffy > Kaido (Kaido himself believed that when he is falling, so, who should I believe? Headcannons or Kaido himself?)... Well, at the point that I heard that Prime Whitebeard could Midd Diff 1 Admiral I imagined what you would said
If its obvious , why is the video 30minutes long?
lol thats a fair point
Zoro has been stronger than katakuri and luffy since time skip. Hell zoro and luffy are practically the same power wise if you dont include gear 5th.
literally the only power up we see zoro get at all after time skip is ennma, and all ennma does is give him more damage. Damage isnt something he needs to beat katakuri or luffy at that time he had plenty pre wano.
Why is this even a debate? The answer is obvious yet some people still think katakuri wins
Zoro beat king.King beats katakuri.DEBATE OVER
@@ZoroRoronao Zoro wins, but Katakuri beats King lmao
The Zoro slander and enma hype is ridiculous. Besides the short clash with an admiral, Zoro never is pushed until Wano. Why are you acting like his durability is dramatically higher in Wano than fishman island? I'd tell you about a durability feat Zoro has pretime skip but nothing happened. You say post time skip Ashura is the same as pretime skip. But you also noted ALL of his other attacks have been upgraded. His strongest attack was too. It's narratively in line with Sanji ifrits jambe. Zoro may not have the travel speed of Luffy and Sanji. But his reaction time in combat is comparable if not outright superior when future sight isn't in the equation. Fishman island Zoro destroys Kuckakuri medium-high diff.
So u saying fugitora haki is weaker than doflamingo. That logic wack
i see what youre saying. no fujis hakis way stronger than doffy.
fuji doesn't cut birdcage cuz doffys a warlord and they are coworkers.
You need brain exercise. To increase your braincells from 3 to more than
Zoro would have had a far easier time against Cracker than Luffy. He has the destructive capability to completely annihilate Cracker's army at the time and is far more skilled in swordsmanship. Not only that but he spent two years in a much more dangerous environment training with a sword that would belong to a 2nd commander level swordsman.
How? Zoro is not as fast nor as powerful as gear 4th to even destroy 1 biscuit. Cracker will straight up body him
@Khaled68335 Zoro's reaction time is faster than Luffy's and his attacks had more range than Gear 4. After he destroyed a few biscuits all he would have to do is get in close and keep Cracker's hands occupied, and Zoro would absolutely destroy him in a sword fight at that time. And Zoro actually would have been able to compete with Gear 4 in pure physical strength, the elasticity just provides extra power.
What AP feats does Zoro have at that point to complete with G4 lol
@kingrippzard2027 Zoro already had advanced armament even before Wano, and he had a black blade. He also didn't have the stamina problem that Gear 4 has, he didn't use his gorilla technique even once before Wano and then there's his Dragon Twister which he cut Kaido with while using as little haki as he thought necessary with a weapon that he had no control over. Zoro was third commander level with Shusui.
@@kingrippzard2027 And then there's the fact that he doesn't need power when he has lethality.
I think Katakuri was strong before fighting Luffy but I'd say he's like 10 times stronger now because it really looked like he didn't have that many moves but now he has loads of new moves he copied from Luffy and because of the nature of his powers he could likely make them even stronger
Tbh i think fishman island zoeo is stronger than fishman island luffy an zoro didnt get his next powerup untill enma and stayed basically the same strength whereas luffy had to learn advanced observation to be at 1st comander level and ryonl and conqures coating to be able to hurt kaido zoro got a new sword and scared kaido
Katakuri vs all pre time skip zoro katakuri neg dif
Katakuri vs fishman island zoro katakuri low dif
Katakuri vs dressrosa katakuri mid dif
Katakuri vs zoro(fighting killer) zoro high/extreme dif
Katakuri vs roof top zoro zoro mid/high dif
Katakuri vs king of hell zoro zoro low dif
Katakuri vs current zoro zoro no/low dif
Sadly kat god powercliffed
I can understand Lucci beating Zoro with two swords, but not three. Zoro was nowhere near as exhausted as Lucci.
Lucci is a Zoan so Lucci would have recovered his stamina faster than Zoro and Sanji but both Zoro and Sanji combined could take down Lucci.
@AnimeALX It's true that Lucci would have recovered his stamina much more quickly, but he would have gone straight for the crew and Usopp would have been his first target, he would be so focused on Usopp that Zoro would either just barely nick him or actually dig pretty deep. The only way I can see Zoro beating Lucci is with no outside help, which would not have been possible with all the people on the bridge, but he would have heavily damaged him, possibly enoufor Franky to finish him off but that's doubtful.
Personally I think Zoro coming out of the time skip in base was relative to Gear 4 in pure physical strength, but the elasticity provided would have e given Luffy a major edge, except for the fact that Zoro can cut through the haki.
No way.. Zoro was actually trained by Mihawk the entire time during the timeskip, whereas Rayleigh just gave luffy some pointers and left. Clearly, Zoro's training was far superior to luffy's during the timeskip and he got a much bigger powerup than Luffy did. Also, Mihawk is just a more compatible trainer than Rayleigh... he is literally the greatest swords master and all of Zoro's strength is sword related.. Rayleigh isn't even a devil fruit user, Luffy just basically had to work out gear 4 by himself.
this is disingenuous.
infact, a blatant lie?
rayleigh trained luffy for 1 year, 6 months.
Non stop, and they were in the wild. A “harsh environment” where the seasons change 48 times a year??
luffy only trained 6 months by himself, rayleigh taught him all 3 basic forms of haki.
and he and luffy, together used G4.
He learnt/creates it with rayleigh, this is shown in a flashback.
Zoros training wasn’t better or worse, they are inherently equal as zoro had to take time to rest.
& he wasn’t training 24/7 in a harsh embodiment.
This is shown by perona.
Make your lies believable.
You’d lose this debate.
The assumption you make here is that zoro ACTUALLY did combat training with mihawk the way luffy was shown to be doing against Rayleigh.
Zoro didn't go all out until wano coz he didn't face any top dogs like luffy and sanji.
zoro had a better trainer though wym. Mihawk strongest swordsman and only pirate who made a black blade.
mihawks stronger, but rayleighs just more wise. dudes seen the one piece, travelled with roger, and is older so has had haki longer. rayliegh is big epic for training
@LeelosAdventure yeah I don't know how we reasonably can estimate who's a better teacher.
I would assume that being the pirate King's right-hand would probably make you provide some more knowledge.
Also assume they're being older getting more time to hone your ability to teach young people. Has mihawk had other students b4?
@@LeelosAdventure but other than that you right lol. 😂 Zoro without enma was 3rd commander level. I’m be honest I was those guys that said Zoro in wano while they was in wci would beat katakuri lol.
@@triumphTLG yeah thats a good question bro. its interesting to think about.
i feel like luffy and raylieghs connection is a lot closer than mihawks and zoros. luffy and rayliegh have so many epic parallels going on with roger.
but mihawk does swing that sword super big, and hes op. tbh i see where youre coming from
@@lundoren5240 its understandable bro, zoro is him. he's him to such a high level it makes sense to assume he would woop anyone
Zoro in dresrossa is so overrated not only did Sanji who’s relative to Zoro get packed by Doffy but Sanji also broke his leg by kicking Vergo who wasn’t using full body armament haki and he lost to Law eventhough Vergo had the advantage by having his heart, Zoro gets packed by Smoker
What are you thinking about. Zoro was clashing with Fujitora and no-diffi Pika, who is at the level or stronger than Vergo. While Law needed Smoker help to defeat Vergo.
Zoro>>Law>>Pika>Vergo>>Smoker
Pika was not stronger than Vergo. Stop the cap. Vergo was a vice admiral in the Marines and a master at rokushiki and can perform full body armament haki (later shown as Tekkai). He is WAYYYYY stronger than Pica and was Doffy's right hand man. If pica was stronger than Vergo then he would have been 2nd in command. Also Law was and will always be stronger than Zoro. Law was stronger than Sanji, Zoro ALWAYS scales to Sanji, and Law is worth 3 billion as of now which is the same amount the admirals are worth. Zoro extreme diffed a 1YC from 100% and almost died and went into a coma for 7 days and admirals are confirmed stronger than 1YC which puts Law (who is relative to the admirals) higher than Zoro.
@@AnimeALX that’s what I’m saying
@AnimeALX
Pika had more destruction power than Vergo, same all full body armament haki and Pika was nilumber 2. Pika has a better portrait and showed more power.
@@metalme2306 yet pica got absolutely lobotomized by Zoro while Vergo was an entire dura tier above Sanji who’s relative to Zoro without even using full body armament
He tanked an attack from bounce man…and Snakeman is a lot stronger than Gear 3rd
Zoro is a lot stronger but your takes on gear 3rd > snakeman is awful
And so is Zoro > snakeman speed
Zoro definetly low dif kat
ya think manga crocodile could beat doflamingo
Crocodile is probably going to get the Lucci treatment and be much stronger than his pre time skip self. Doflamingo is in prison. Crocodile is probably stronger. Even though he probably shouldn't be lol. Plot needs to plot sometimes
@@warmcoffee69 yep thats what i think too.
@@warmcoffee69 you explained it perfectly tbh
First of all, Zoro is not faster than WCI Luffy lmao
Zoro was relative to base luffy in Wano in terms of speed, while Katakuri literally speed blitzed Snakeman Luffy the form that Kaido was struggling to dodge against.
So bro, if you're scaling at least say things correctly.
So base Luffy = Snakeman Luffy? This is a straight up copium.
Obviously Zoro wins, but you have a lot of coping in your video.
Zoro, along with killer, was able to blitz base kaido and outspeed big mom(with her homies) a couple times. Base kaido blitzed gear4 luffy(wasn’t using future sight). So base kaido should be somewhat relative to katakuri in speed because they both can blitz luffy if he doesn’t use future sight.
Katakuri never blitzed luffy after he got future sight. He just didn’t expect him to turn into a donut and go straight for him after luffy threw the attack. He could react to the same “donut form” later on when he wasn’t putting all his momentum into an attack and when he actually knew that katakuri could move like that.
He isn’t coping, Zoro is just fast.
@@biasedpotato8511 Zoro is fast, but let's be real the reason why Zoro speed blitzed Kaido was because he didn't take him seriously
And if you remember, Luffy actually landed about 3 attacks on Kaido but it did no damage, that was the problem not the speed
And you literally described the meaning of speed blitzing, Luffy was attacking Katakuri but he was able to dodge everything and speed blitz him, that's basically what happened
Zoro is fast but he is not faster than WCI Luffy, that's a straight up copium
Zoro wins against Katakuri though, he is one of the strongest YC1
@@Idookkdsofksa kaido had his club in an attacking position and he was attacking luffy moments before so it makes more sense that Kaido got blitzed. He wouldn’t have put his club in an attack ready position if he wasn’t planning on doing anything. Either way he was still out speeding big mom who should be a good amount faster than kaido due to her homies that amp her speed.
Kaido blitzed luffy in the manga. I’m guessing you’re talking about the anime.
Two people that are relative in speed can dodge each others attacks and counter them. If I put most of my weight into throwing a punch with my right arm, it would be easy to dodge by looking at the way I move my body. And then it would be easy to counter because my weight is going towards that direction. And I definitely wouldn’t react as fast if I saw my opponent turn into a donut and start spinning towards me.
He reacted to the same exact attack from a seemingly closer range right after this so they are still clearly relative in speed.
@@biasedpotato8511 Nah, Big Mom isn't faster than Kaido, Big Mom only had Zeus and the sun but Kaido in his hybird form is def faster than BM imo.
Luffy got speed blitzed. Stop making excuses and trying to prove that he wasn't. Katakuri dodged Snakeman Luffy like it's nothing after understanding how it works, then turned himself into a donut and attacked Luffy with Luffy not being able to react, that's called speed blitzing. Katakuri speed blitzed him. Stop coping. You are wrong here.
WCI Luffy Snakeman is faster than Zoro, and Katakuri was faster than Snakeman.
@@Idookkdsofksa big mom is faster than base kaido which is all that matters.
Luffy literally reacts to the same exact attack right after that from a closer distance. Later on we see a panel of them hitting each other with the same amount of attacks simultaneously. He also wrote that they can see the same future. Oda couldn’t have made it more obvious that they are relative in speed.
Zoro is azssszzzsszz
of course you hate on Zoro look at that profile pic! jkjk nice video
Zoro mid diffs.
Zoro negs kata
in wano yeah
@@LeelosAdventure How much stronger do you think he got between end of dressrosa and start of wano?
I knew this is one of those bad scaling video that's why i skipped to the end and i was right lol, Zoro not beating Katakuri without future sight or something as fast as snake man that even made Kaido use future sight to dodge. L biased video.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
That’s a fair point.
But we’ve seen you can overpower future sight if you are fast enough.
Kaido does this to luffy at the start of the rooftop fight.
Seeing how zoro scales in reaction speed to combined ikouku sovereignty from kaido and big mom.
You can make an argument he could outspeed katakuris future sight as well
Furthermore. Seeing how zoros base attacks would nearly one tap katakuri. And katakuri could slam zoro for 11 hrs straight and still not win, it’s far more likely zoro would win the battle.
All he has to do is get katakuri angry once. And slash him and it’s a wrap. Similar to how a weaker luffy did.
But if you objectively believe you have found points that I haven’t. Then I truly want you to share them.
If it’s something I haven’t considered I’ll give you a shout out in next vid. Because one of main reasons I make these vids is to make powerscaling that most accurately represents how oda would scale his characters.
If you got better info, let me know so I can update and make better vids
Really genuinely hoping you have something I haven’t considered. No shade at all. Thanks again for commenting
@@LeelosAdventure No, we did not see, Kaido didn't land the hit cleanly on Luffy he even said to Luffy good job on not letting the same attack hit. That was base Luffy who's slower that Katakuri btw
Luffy saw that attack coming first with future sight, katakuri will see it too
There's no way Zoro can outspeed future sight when he scales to gear 2 speed at best, snake man >>>>>> gear 2
Bro do you have discord ?
Yeah bro I’m working on setting up a public one, I’ll put the info out in my community tab once it’s up
Then I’ll probably put a link to it in my vid descriptions
@@LeelosAdventure Bett