In this case the blame falls on that archaic ten scoring system, which capped the score and left no room for even small errors. The slight check after the full (yes, there was a slight adjustment), the adjustment after the layout step, the hop on landing… those all added up. In a different era the outcome would have likely been very different.
She had some visible checks. Those were suitably deducted, as much as it was spectacular.. in the 10 system you couldn’t afford them, especially the hop on dismount.
@@TheSienna29 Khorkina didn’t have quite the difficulty value at those championships was the big reason she didn’t. I’m pretty sure- having watched that competition- that she had a 9.9 SV. Otherwise her routine was smoother.
One of the greatest highway robberies in the sport. I know she had small mistakes but damn. An iconic routine. I am not trying to hate on Gogean whom I admire a great deal but she won because she played it safe and the judges went for that. In many ways, Romanian gymnastics wasn’t about doing everything you’re capable of. It was about doing just enough. And I’m sorry but it doesn’t do it for me. Give me the Kui’s and the risk takers every damned day. The mistakes she made were unbelievably minor. For that to put her an equal footing with Gogean and Khorkina, I’ll never get it
All I could see from Kui's routine as far as errors go were slight balance checks, this routine was so cool and beautiful this is one of if not the worst robberies in gymnastics.
Well, that is why the 10.0 scoring system was bad. It didn't have any kind of reward for difficultly beyond the bare minimum. It was all about packing just enough difficulty to hit a 10.0 start value and then minimizing deductions, which is what the Romanians excelled at. They typically avoided excessive difficulty, whereas the Chinese would not.
Gina had great difficulty in the early 90's. However, she had a terrible fall on the beam. After that she changed her routines to do the bare minimum. I assume the fall scarred her psychologically. Personally, I thought Elvire Teza should have won gold for her beam performance this year. I don't even think she was in the top 5.
@@lorelaim3294that’s the problem- slight WOBBLES, as well as a hop on dismount. Like it or not, Gina performed more flawlessly than Kui in this final and was duly rewarded. Blame that scoring system, no judges.
Margaret Tudor Me too and it’s a shame because it wasn’t Gogean’s fault. She didn’t do anything wrong. She went out there and performed her routine cleanly. The judges and the code of points let her get away with doing a routine that had no tumbling series in the interior. It was same mess at the Olympics where they somehow gave her routine bronze over Kotchetkova’s far more difficult routine. She knew how to work the code to her advantage but still the judges still went for that over three people who had far more complex and difficult routines. Ridiculous
@@mysticalmargaret6105Gina had absolutely NO reason to be ashamed. She hit her beam routine as cleanly as possible, and incurred the least amount of deductions. This was spectacular- but had visible checks and a hop on landing. In that scoring system that was costly. It’s why the 10 system was eliminated and the open system was brought in- to reward extremely difficult routines like this and encourage more innovation and risk taking. The only person who should feel shame is YOU- for demeaning an athlete in such a way. Please at least attempt to grow into adulthood.
At least 1 tenth for her balance check on full, .5-.25 for adjustment on loso landing, could take .25 for slight check on full turn, check with arms on landing, hop on landing It’s a great routine but there were errors that took the title away from her
Actually she wouldn’t. Several elements would be disregarded in the dance section because they’re repetitive. She would need to incorporate a great deal more variety in the leaps and jumps category. Acrobatics? Absolutely.
Actually… she wouldn’t. Some of the elements would be considered repeats and wouldn’t count. Connection bonus would be the only thing they would garner. Someone actually did a video on her SV for today and it was surprisingly low.
@@aquajosh actually she wouldn’t be. Many of the repeated elements (leaps) would not be credited and a great deal of connection value would not be there.
The problem wasn't the 10 point system altogether, it was this particular 10 point system in the 1997-2000 quad, where Gogean could get a 10 SV using low risk elements. For example, Gogean's wolf jump 1/2 was massively overvalued at D and worth 0.1 bonus (and eligible for 0.2 CV). It was subsequently devalued in the 2001 quad. Elements were also capped at E (0.2 bonus) so even Kui's super hard back layout 1/1 was only worth E (though it could get 0.2 CV). The 2001 COP created the Super E rating (0.3 bonus) and it became harder to reach 10 SV, so Kui's routine would have been much better rewarded. There's great breakdown of this by thesovgc
She was the clear gold here. In the era Romania was highly favored. Doing boring less difficult routines. Gold for China and Silver for Teza of France. Gogean should even be in the finals.
Romania took greatest advantage of the scoring system- that’s how they won medals, particularly gold. It wasn’t their fault the scoring system of that time didn’t reward difficulty. Judges scored based on performance- not on nationality, get a grip.
@@saragrant9749 Agreed, Kui's averaged score of 9.787 is actually easy to account for; she got 0.1 off for the wobble after the back layout 1/1 and another 0.1 off after landing the dismount (so 9.8). Some judges (who gave her 9.75) then took another 0.05 off for another minor wobble, probably after the LOSO.
In the open ended system she’d have won. Unfortunately in that system you couldn’t afford any even slight wobbles- and especially couldn’t afford not to stick the dismount.
@@gbfutureolympians2883 it’s not race they’re referring to: at this period (not so sure about americans but definitely romanians ) were being over scored for basic routines that only just fulfilled the start value without doing anything monumental, they’re saying that if she was romanian she would’ve been scored higher which i probably agree with
Kui was robbed and I will say that forever and a day. Gogean's workman's beam set was a joke compared to this spectacular routine. If I were Gina, I'd be ashamed to hang on to a gold medal I knew I didn't deserve.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, this is the reason why we have the code we have now so that performances like this would not be scored lower than routines with lower values.
@@Kevinsf its part of the reason the real reason is cause the judging in athens was so damn horrible . like figure skating in salt lake in 02 . so much corrupt judging at both games cause both figure skating and gymnastics to overhaul their scoring system. The fact that even other athletes in this final also shook their heads says a hell of alot for sure .
Still an unbelievable robbery. Kui's beam routine was amazing and had extreme difficulty. She also only had a few little wobbles on her acro series and on her full turn, and she had a small hop on the dismount. Compare this magnificent routine with Gogean's boring and unartistic routine. Gogean even had her share of mistakes with a step and wobble on her mount, the first element of her routine, and rushed her back handspring with quarter turn to handstand, resulting in a low handstand. The reaction to Kui's score from the crowd was more than fair, look at the French team's reaction to Kui's score! Elvire Teza, who deserved bronze here, was shaking her head in disbelief and her coach the same at 2:25. This is why some people didn't enjoy the 1989-2000 era of gymnastics, where the Romanians were so obviously favored by the judges because of influence by Nadia Comaneci and Daniela Silivas. Judges during this era were constantly giving the Romanians outrageously overscored scores. Look back at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics where Lavinia Milosovici of Romania won the vault gold shared with Henrietta Onodi and stole the gold from Onodi in the floor finals by being overscored by the biased judges. I also think that Boginskaya deserved the all around bronze above Milosovici as well. Before the 1992 Olympics at the 1992 World Championships, Lavinia also was able to win gold on the uneven bars (her worst event) over Betty Okino.... hmmm, very interesting. This biased behavior from international judges lingered around until 2000 with Gogean winning the beam title in 1997 over Kui and Khorkina, where the results should've been Kui with gold, Khorkina with silver, and Teza with bronze. Maria Olaru also went on to win the all around title in 1999 with a sloppy performance (look at her bars routine) and beat Viktoria Karpenko of Ukraine. Don't even get me started with Simona Amanar's performance in the floor event finals at the 2000 Sydney Olympics when she stepped out of bounds on her dismount and still managed to win bronze. Esther Moya of Spain was the clear winner of a medal and she was pushed back in 4th position. Esther Moya should've won the silver behind Zamolodchikova and ahead of Khorkina who should've won bronze instead of silver. I just can't get over these facts.
Actually in that era it wasn’t the greatest, which is why it finished third. Several little checks and a hop on landing were costly. Today it would have won.
This was the final world for gina and the judges made sure she won a bunch of medals. Back when judging was very corrupt she deserved nothing less than gold this beam was so difficult she literally only had to upgrade one skill between the two quads
There was NO corruption in the results of this event. The medals were determined by the archaic scoring system of that era- the 10. It’s why the open ended system exists now, to reward difficulty and encourage innovation and risk taking. Go become a judge yourself if you think you’re the foremost expert in the world at it- or shut it.
By today’s standards, this routine would still be competitive...But no, Gina Gogean won with a shit routine...Because it wasn’t about difficulty back then, it was reputation...SMDH 😒🙄
It was about getting a 10 SV, and then executing it well. This was amazing but had some visible checks- particularly the dismount. It’s why the open ended system was created. Rather than childishly blaming the athlete, why not blame the scoring system.
in the current COP (2022 - 2024), her routine is valued at 5.0. the reason it's so low is because she doesn't have any forward or sideways acro to fulfill the multiple directions of acro CR, only backwards acro (i'm not sure if a round off counts as forward acro, but if it does, then that increases her SV to 5.5). also, a lot of the connections between her dance elements, while definitely connected, don't net her any tangible CV, sadly, and in this routine, she has only .2 CV and .2 SB (series bonus).
@@emmathedilemmma agree, the COP are different but no doubt Kui has the ability to perform 6.5+ if the routine been made by today. not to mention she has a G
Obviously scored based on the scoring system of that time - child. When you can become more educated about the scoring system of that time- the 10 and its requirements- you’ll understand.
@@Gazmeizster_Wongatron I agree with you on that point. The thing about the Romanian gymnastics during this period is that they only do enough just to fulfill the requirements by playing with the code. This is drastically different than the Romanians of the 80s and 90s. I'm not saying that what they did was illegal but it makes gymnastics uninspriring and boring, especially on bars.
Olaru's beam routines actually had reasonable difficulty. She could nail the front pike (E) on the beam and as a mount and even connect out of it for CV; even today very few gymnasts manage those. Romania's best beam workers back in those days (Raducan, Olaru, Ban, Eremia, Ponor) would all be highly competitive today and would adjust their routines to the current COP.
Ah, words spoken by someone who clearly never left pre adolescence. This was scored based on the system available at the time. Not anyone’s fault that the little bobbles proved costly- as they should have given the code.
She was not robbed. She had lots of big tricks, but execution matters. She had balance breaks all throughout the routine. Her score was fair. Gogean had zero breaks.
One of the most difficult beam routines I have ever seen.
Chinese are always underscored. She is magnificent
In this case the blame falls on that archaic ten scoring system, which capped the score and left no room for even small errors. The slight check after the full (yes, there was a slight adjustment), the adjustment after the layout step, the hop on landing… those all added up. In a different era the outcome would have likely been very different.
She had some visible checks. Those were suitably deducted, as much as it was spectacular.. in the 10 system you couldn’t afford them, especially the hop on dismount.
Her routine is Balance Check city. Khorkina should have won.
@@TheSienna29 Khorkina didn’t have quite the difficulty value at those championships was the big reason she didn’t. I’m pretty sure- having watched that competition- that she had a 9.9 SV. Otherwise her routine was smoother.
@@saragrant9749 Her mount was way undervalued
One of the greatest highway robberies in the sport. I know she had small mistakes but damn. An iconic routine. I am not trying to hate on Gogean whom I admire a great deal but she won because she played it safe and the judges went for that. In many ways, Romanian gymnastics wasn’t about doing everything you’re capable of. It was about doing just enough. And I’m sorry but it doesn’t do it for me. Give me the Kui’s and the risk takers every damned day. The mistakes she made were unbelievably minor. For that to put her an equal footing with Gogean and Khorkina, I’ll never get it
All I could see from Kui's routine as far as errors go were slight balance checks, this routine was so cool and beautiful this is one of if not the worst robberies in gymnastics.
Well, that is why the 10.0 scoring system was bad. It didn't have any kind of reward for difficultly beyond the bare minimum. It was all about packing just enough difficulty to hit a 10.0 start value and then minimizing deductions, which is what the Romanians excelled at. They typically avoided excessive difficulty, whereas the Chinese would not.
Gina had great difficulty in the early 90's. However, she had a terrible fall on the beam. After that she changed her routines to do the bare minimum. I assume the fall scarred her psychologically. Personally, I thought Elvire Teza should have won gold for her beam performance this year. I don't even think she was in the top 5.
@@lorelaim3294that’s the problem- slight WOBBLES, as well as a hop on dismount. Like it or not, Gina performed more flawlessly than Kui in this final and was duly rewarded. Blame that scoring system, no judges.
@@foodculture6355 That makes sense, but the judges cannot score her based on that. They should be judging the routine only.
She was robbed !!! what a sad look in her eyes when the score appeared on the board... you rock Kui... then, now and always !
+NeitherNowNorHere robbed.
Even Elvire Teza is shaking her head in disbelief. If I were Gina Gogean I would have been ashamed to accept a gold medal after this performance.
Margaret Tudor Me too and it’s a shame because it wasn’t Gogean’s fault. She didn’t do anything wrong. She went out there and performed her routine cleanly. The judges and the code of points let her get away with doing a routine that had no tumbling series in the interior. It was same mess at the Olympics where they somehow gave her routine bronze over Kotchetkova’s far more difficult routine. She knew how to work the code to her advantage but still the judges still went for that over three people who had far more complex and difficult routines. Ridiculous
@@mysticalmargaret6105Gina had absolutely NO reason to be ashamed. She hit her beam routine as cleanly as possible, and incurred the least amount of deductions. This was spectacular- but had visible checks and a hop on landing. In that scoring system that was costly. It’s why the 10 system was eliminated and the open system was brought in- to reward extremely difficult routines like this and encourage more innovation and risk taking.
The only person who should feel shame is YOU- for demeaning an athlete in such a way. Please at least attempt to grow into adulthood.
At least 1 tenth for her balance check on full, .5-.25 for adjustment on loso landing, could take .25 for slight check on full turn, check with arms on landing, hop on landing
It’s a great routine but there were errors that took the title away from her
She would be destroying girls with this routine under the current code of points.
DOG WALK
Actually she wouldn’t. Several elements would be disregarded in the dance section because they’re repetitive. She would need to incorporate a great deal more variety in the leaps and jumps category. Acrobatics? Absolutely.
Actually… she wouldn’t. Some of the elements would be considered repeats and wouldn’t count. Connection bonus would be the only thing they would garner. Someone actually did a video on her SV for today and it was surprisingly low.
@@aquajosh actually she wouldn’t be. Many of the repeated elements (leaps) would not be credited and a great deal of connection value would not be there.
If anyone ever laments the death of the 10.0 scoring system, just show them this video. It's a classic example of why it needed to go.
The problem wasn't the 10 point system altogether, it was this particular 10 point system in the 1997-2000 quad, where Gogean could get a 10 SV using low risk elements. For example, Gogean's wolf jump 1/2 was massively overvalued at D and worth 0.1 bonus (and eligible for 0.2 CV). It was subsequently devalued in the 2001 quad. Elements were also capped at E (0.2 bonus) so even Kui's super hard back layout 1/1 was only worth E (though it could get 0.2 CV). The 2001 COP created the Super E rating (0.3 bonus) and it became harder to reach 10 SV, so Kui's routine would have been much better rewarded. There's great breakdown of this by thesovgc
She was the clear gold here. In the era Romania was highly favored. Doing boring less difficult routines. Gold for China and Silver for Teza of France. Gogean should even be in the finals.
Romania took greatest advantage of the scoring system- that’s how they won medals, particularly gold. It wasn’t their fault the scoring system of that time didn’t reward difficulty. Judges scored based on performance- not on nationality, get a grip.
@@saragrant9749 Agreed, Kui's averaged score of 9.787 is actually easy to account for; she got 0.1 off for the wobble after the back layout 1/1 and another 0.1 off after landing the dismount (so 9.8). Some judges (who gave her 9.75) then took another 0.05 off for another minor wobble, probably after the LOSO.
She deserved a gold medal!
In the open ended system she’d have won. Unfortunately in that system you couldn’t afford any even slight wobbles- and especially couldn’t afford not to stick the dismount.
She’d have gotten it if she stuck her dismount and hadn’t had the check on the layout full, the last layout step out… those added up.
Shame on you judge's 😕!! Your mother's wouldn't be proud
@@bubblechey3686 she’d have gotten it without the visible checks and bobbles.
HOW please tell me how come she didn't win the gold medal here??? This routine was marvelous!
because she is Chinese,if she is Romanian，Russian or American，she had got this gold.
@@meiyang7595 oh stop it. It’s got nothing to do with race
@@gbfutureolympians2883 it’s not race they’re referring to: at this period (not so sure about americans but definitely romanians ) were being over scored for basic routines that only just fulfilled the start value without doing anything monumental, they’re saying that if she was romanian she would’ve been scored higher which i probably agree with
@@gbfutureolympians2883The Chinese women were (and still are) very often underscored in the 90s.
Me too, am always chocked shame didn’t win it!
Kui was robbed and I will say that forever and a day. Gogean's workman's beam set was a joke compared to this spectacular routine. If I were Gina, I'd be ashamed to hang on to a gold medal I knew I didn't deserve.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, this is the reason why we have the code we have now so that performances like this would not be scored lower than routines with lower values.
@@Kevinsf its part of the reason the real reason is cause the judging in athens was so damn horrible . like figure skating in salt lake in 02 . so much corrupt judging at both games cause both figure skating and gymnastics to overhaul their scoring system. The fact that even other athletes in this final also shook their heads says a hell of alot for sure .
@@TheTimo5494Or figure skating at 2018 Olympics...Sotnikowa and Kim Yuna
One of my all time favourite beam routine x
Amazing routine by Kui! God bless her!
Still an unbelievable robbery. Kui's beam routine was amazing and had extreme difficulty. She also only had a few little wobbles on her acro series and on her full turn, and she had a small hop on the dismount. Compare this magnificent routine with Gogean's boring and unartistic routine. Gogean even had her share of mistakes with a step and wobble on her mount, the first element of her routine, and rushed her back handspring with quarter turn to handstand, resulting in a low handstand. The reaction to Kui's score from the crowd was more than fair, look at the French team's reaction to Kui's score! Elvire Teza, who deserved bronze here, was shaking her head in disbelief and her coach the same at 2:25. This is why some people didn't enjoy the 1989-2000 era of gymnastics, where the Romanians were so obviously favored by the judges because of influence by Nadia Comaneci and Daniela Silivas. Judges during this era were constantly giving the Romanians outrageously overscored scores. Look back at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics where Lavinia Milosovici of Romania won the vault gold shared with Henrietta Onodi and stole the gold from Onodi in the floor finals by being overscored by the biased judges. I also think that Boginskaya deserved the all around bronze above Milosovici as well. Before the 1992 Olympics at the 1992 World Championships, Lavinia also was able to win gold on the uneven bars (her worst event) over Betty Okino.... hmmm, very interesting. This biased behavior from international judges lingered around until 2000 with Gogean winning the beam title in 1997 over Kui and Khorkina, where the results should've been Kui with gold, Khorkina with silver, and Teza with bronze. Maria Olaru also went on to win the all around title in 1999 with a sloppy performance (look at her bars routine) and beat Viktoria Karpenko of Ukraine. Don't even get me started with Simona Amanar's performance in the floor event finals at the 2000 Sydney Olympics when she stepped out of bounds on her dismount and still managed to win bronze. Esther Moya of Spain was the clear winner of a medal and she was pushed back in 4th position. Esther Moya should've won the silver behind Zamolodchikova and ahead of Khorkina who should've won bronze instead of silver. I just can't get over these facts.
"Third place.. A surprise, to put it mildly"
Exactly!!
Now THAT’S execution
Actually in that era it wasn’t the greatest, which is why it finished third. Several little checks and a hop on landing were costly. Today it would have won.
@@saragrant9749 yeah today’s execution is sad. I understand the difficulties are higher but to watch all the bobbles and hops is just….
Holy Cow!!! She was certainly robbed!!!
By the scoring system of that time, not the judges. It’s exactly why the 10 system is gone.
Robbed. This deserved gold.
And would have gotten it had there not still been the 10 scoring system. That’s what robbed her, not the judges fault.
It’d have gotten one without the visible errors.
@@neophyteruss it would have gotten it without the visible checks and bobbles.
Era oro!!! Che scandalo questo verdetto!!! Kui❤
this podium was a joke! kuy should have wun! khorkina 2nd and maybe teza 3rd. how it s possible to put her behind the anoying performance of gogean?!
Blame the scoring system, not the athletes. It’s why the 10 system was done away with.
9.85 at the least.
This was the final world for gina and the judges made sure she won a bunch of medals. Back when judging was very corrupt she deserved nothing less than gold this beam was so difficult she literally only had to upgrade one skill between the two quads
There was NO corruption in the results of this event. The medals were determined by the archaic scoring system of that era- the 10. It’s why the open ended system exists now, to reward difficulty and encourage innovation and risk taking. Go become a judge yourself if you think you’re the foremost expert in the world at it- or shut it.
Khorkina had the best routine
By today’s standards, this routine would still be competitive...But no, Gina Gogean won with a shit routine...Because it wasn’t about difficulty back then, it was reputation...SMDH 😒🙄
It was about getting a 10 SV, and then executing it well. This was amazing but had some visible checks- particularly the dismount. It’s why the open ended system was created. Rather than childishly blaming the athlete, why not blame the scoring system.
What’s the difficulty score of this routine in this current COP?
in the current COP (2022 - 2024), her routine is valued at 5.0. the reason it's so low is because she doesn't have any forward or sideways acro to fulfill the multiple directions of acro CR, only backwards acro (i'm not sure if a round off counts as forward acro, but if it does, then that increases her SV to 5.5). also, a lot of the connections between her dance elements, while definitely connected, don't net her any tangible CV, sadly, and in this routine, she has only .2 CV and .2 SB (series bonus).
@@emmathedilemmma agree, the COP are different but no doubt Kui has the ability to perform 6.5+ if the routine been made by today. not to mention she has a G
@@emmathedilemmma however 5.0 with this performance can still make her on the podium in 2021 word champion (or even 2022 wc) lol
I love this ten times more than Simone Biles on beam. The good old days.
Well, now I know, asians are the best gymnasts of the world.
On beam and bars ONLY. In vault, floor, AA and team? Not even close.
That beam looked so wobbly tho
Huh? If you mean the body position after the layout full and the six in a row series, I’d say you’re a little picky here
@@davfb8622that was the point though- it DID have bobbles. It’s what cost her gold in that old scoring system.
I can't stand the sadness in her face (ua-cam.com/video/K4S7-30f124/v-deo.html) when she saw she's only third placer.
Obviously fixed
Obviously scored based on the scoring system of that time - child. When you can become more educated about the scoring system of that time- the 10 and its requirements- you’ll understand.
No, it was the 10 system that resulted in her finishing third. She had multiple visible checks, those added up.
Robbed!!!! Robbed!!!!
By that 10 scoring system and nothing else. She had visible checks- multiple ones. Those added up.
Who the hell won??
G1n4 G0g34n 💀
Wow back then that was as difficult as you can get. Amazing but the score was too low. That was in a biased era by the judges. Very shameful
Gina was given the gift of her life and she knows it. Her beam routines are as boring as Maria Olaru's.
At least Olaru's routines had an actual acro series though. Why the FIG didn't change that rule after 1996 is beyond me...
@@Gazmeizster_Wongatron I agree with you on that point. The thing about the Romanian gymnastics during this period is that they only do enough just to fulfill the requirements by playing with the code. This is drastically different than the Romanians of the 80s and 90s. I'm not saying that what they did was illegal but it makes gymnastics uninspriring and boring, especially on bars.
Olaru's beam routines actually had reasonable difficulty. She could nail the front pike (E) on the beam and as a mount and even connect out of it for CV; even today very few gymnasts manage those. Romania's best beam workers back in those days (Raducan, Olaru, Ban, Eremia, Ponor) would all be highly competitive today and would adjust their routines to the current COP.
Glad the 10 system is gone . Show them this bs
Robbed. Absolutely robbed
Only by that scoring system.
Booohhh to Romania!!! Now karma is back now.
What are you talking about? Its not ginas fault, she didnt get herself final score. You should blame on judges and scoring system at that time.
Ah, words spoken by someone who clearly never left pre adolescence. This was scored based on the system available at the time. Not anyone’s fault that the little bobbles proved costly- as they should have given the code.
What a shame
Absolutely undoubtedly robbed
Robbed
She was not robbed. She had lots of big tricks, but execution matters. She had balance breaks all throughout the routine. Her score was fair. Gogean had zero breaks.
Kui just chose not to milk the COP like Gogean did so the result is absolutely fair. But it is an indictment of the crappy COP