Terrific video. Really appreciate your work and willingness to share. I’ll add another tip that fixed the cover hinges and seriously upgraded the user experience for me: disassemble the hinges and buff-out the length of rod arm that rotates inside the plastic housings. There’s metal burrs from the small screw punch that contributed drag. Next, create and insert a shim into the plastic housing, where the two edges meet, the goal is to keep the plastic clamp from closing too tightly on the hinge pin. I cut my shim from a thin sheet of cork. Cardboard would do, too. Next, I applied bluetac to the back of the plastic housing before screwing them back on the plinth. Add a drop of oil to the hinge, and don’t use the tiny set screws to adjust tension. They’re just gouging into the plastic housing when you do that. Adjust hinge tension using the large mounting screws. Lastly, make sure the hinges are horizontally aligned with each other when remounting. The end result is a smooth and solid feeling cover. Cheers and thanks again!
I've damped the platter and sub-platter with similar bitumen based sound deadening. I've also decoupled the motor from the plinth completely by sitting it on it's own base under the table. With a cork mat and a clamp, it runs very near to silent, and the detail is incredible.
I have heard people doing that and have considered it myself. I am pretty happy with the table now but getting it completely disconnected from the plinth would be much better, for sure.
Your video made me revisit my turntable again to try and sort the noise and rumble which has been annoying me for years. My TT is a Debut 2 and must be around 23 years old now. I'm very careful with my kit and it is still as new. It forms part of my office setup - I have a high end 75 Japanese DD - Sony PS-6750 - family owned since new and 'as new' with 2M Blue for my main setup 'class A etc.'. My Debut 2 had been relegated to the garage - boxed for many years until we moved and I decided to play it again. I decided after a while that the 'cheapness' of it irritated me and after a while I replaced the platter and sub platter with Pro-ject acrylic and ally upgrades but although better, the rumble and noise was still there, the Sony's DD mechanism being totally silent. So the Pro-ject became a project. I had previously removed the motor screws and was then advised to put them back and so forth. Much jiggery pokery later and a pully and belt change - old mod - later, it was better but still rubbish. I found that the motor was being pulled into the plinth so cut up rubber washers and put them under the front part of the suspension band. Massive difference - but still not great. I replace spindle bearing and oiled it - better. I made myself believe it was good - but the mechanical rumble I had at start, between tracks and end had to be sorted. It got ignored for a while. Boredom struck and I decided to do a total upgrade - why? Was bored. So fitted Pro-Ject Carbon arm, spare 2M red, new bearing, RCA box, Evo adjustable feet (needs tapping kit) - I have to say they are expensive and crap! - no adjustment, just how far you screw them into plinth. Bear in mind, mine still has the old AC motor. Slowly improving but now I feel like I have been polishing a turd if you know what I mean. Everything fitted - well, looks good, that carbon arm looks better than that horrible steel tube. Sound? Average... watched your video and cam up with an idea... wife is a nurse, borrow stethoscope! removed screw and dampers, fitted dampers at back of support band, listened to each option with stethoscope, finally silent. Also overhang adjustment.... what did I find? After having fitted all, forgot to do cartridge alignment - been playing this thing for 6 months or more and hadn't even tightened the screws - idiot! Final result - cartridge aligned correctly, motor screws and dampers below removed, dampers put under motor belt at the rear. Many thanks for all your suggestions, after 23 years, my old project has never sounded so good.
WOW! That was a lot of tinkering. I agree some of these Pro-Jects are like polishing a turd. With cartridge alignment, I just slide mine out to the end, as long as you are using a 2M or Atvm series cart. I prefer the Blue or the ATvm95en, very good value. I am currently using a AT120eb. Very similar to the 2M blue, maybe a bit better channel separation. Unfortunately, there is motor vibration getting transmitted through the belt, very poor motors on these lower priced Pro-Jects. Great to hear from you. Cheers!
Hi, thanks so much for your reply. Interesting comment about the motor noise. Mine is an early AC motor version. Using the stethoscope I was surprised to find it silent. I understand the DC motors are quite hummy. I have now acquired the sorbothane buttons so can finish that part. Can’t remember if I mentioned I also have the pulley and round belt upgrade. Pro-Ject seem to have abandoned that. On the cartridge alignment side I find using the supplied protractor and moving 2M cartridge to the end in the slots it’s still not fully aligned, however the 2M is an awkward shape for viewing for straightness from the top. I have decided to waste more money 😆 and have bought the Align It protractor. Not used yet. I will update you in results. I am building à TT based on solid granite plinth. Not decided on arm yet. The tool will come in handy. Cheers 😃
@@janzuidhof9646 sliding the cartridge to the end does change the null points slightly buts dies delive good results. I suggest this alignment to new comers because it is easy to do and renders good results. The Pro-Ject DC models are really AC the electronics in them actually produce an AC voltage to drive the motor . From what I've read. Nice chatting.
@@northa4021 I found using the supplied paper protractor it was very difficult to actually square up the cartridge visually, not helped by the shape of the 2M cartridge. It would also help if the headshell part of the arm had lines on it so you could line up better. I have a Sony PS-6750 from '75. Lining it up is a piece if cake with the supplied protractor Both have lines on them. To me it looks like even with the 2M slid all the way to the front of the arm, it is still not perfectly aligned in either 130 and 240 positions. The protractor could also be at fault as it is thin paper. I replaced the original steel tube fixed weight arm with OM5 with a carbon arm, same length and base etc. so there should not be an alignment issue. I moved the cartridge forward after reading your article - remember I had totally forgotten to tighten up the screws originally. I find the sound more shrill on transients, hi-hat, snare drum..... almost like sibilance. Regards the motor, I realise the DC powered ones are brushless (pseudo square waver) AC. I am talking about the AC powered motor before they went wallwart DC. I now realise that of course they need to be 60Hz 110V for you. I found my 230V 50Hz is totally silent and super stable. I think sharing info on these great fun TTs is very helpful, and community spirited. It's good to talk. I will let you know how I get on. Travelling for a week. Thanks again for chat.
@@janzuidhof9646 with the Pro-Ject 8.6 in arms sliding the cartridge out to the end gives the following null points. Inner null is now 67.4 and the outer is 114.9. I printed a arc template from Conrad Hoffman . This protractor is accurate and easy to use. I printed mine on card stock. Much easier to use than the Pro-Ject one.
This Is truly an awesome video with great insights, thanks a lot!!! I wanted to add that I’ve had a similar problem regarding motor noise with a high and turntable that I purchased a while ago, and I ended up with the ultimate solution which is to put the motor completely out of the main turntable assembly. From all my experiences and trials, this is finally the only full-proof way to get any noise out of the system: the motor simply cannot be attached to the same body where the arm is. I have set it up in a very temporary (and cosmetically unappealing) form as I am still fighting to get a proper chrome or silver casing that looks good to drop the motor into, as well as trying find a proper vendor that has good turntable belts (or any kind of belts that will serve the purpose) since the original belt of the turntable can’t be used anymore (the new length is obviously different, much longer than the original). Still no clue where or how I can find or build a proper metal cylindrical case to put the motor into and that matches the rest of the turntable, and still find thing to find a good place to buy belts. Again, thanks for sharing your video :)
Glad you found it useful, I have also thought abut complete motor isolation as well but on the Pro_ject I would have to go to, as you did a much longer belt. As it is I am pretty happy but I still have some vibration through the belt. Without a major renovation I think this is as good as it is going to get. Cheers!
I'm a keen table tennis player. When you replace the TT rubbers at the end of a season you are left with a highly expensive sponge and rubber sheet that has really good absorption properties. I've cut one into an in-between lower and upper platter disc to minimise motor noise transference and it seems to work well. Don't use cheap TT rubbers which can be stiffer, but tired used good ones work well.
A huge thanks for this video. I own a 1Xpression Carbon Classic with a Ortofone M2 Black and after some modding the horifc hum is gone and it's like a whole other turntable. I used hardrive dampers for the motor and it worked great and I used a thin rubbermat between the platter and the inner platter. The AC adapter is different here in Sweden and that didn't need to be replaced.
Glad you found this useful. I have replaced the Blue with stick on tire balance weights. Not much difference than the blue tack, just smaller and heavier. Cheers
The noise on my old debut sb mk1 has bothered me since i bought it, such a simple fix, and plenty more to think about. Project should offer you a job. Many, many thanks.
If you think the Pro-Ject dust cover hinges are bad, take a look at the Regas. Those hinges look like they will break after 50 openings/closings to me.
Ya I did and it makes me a bit cranky. The counter weight now touches the cover when closed. So I must play with the cover off, which I did any way . cheers
There is a little set screw in the pulley, you may have to adjust the pulley height so that it does not hit the bottom of the platter. Good luck, cheers!
I bought a RPM5 from a guy that was getting crazy with the hum. I just bought a pair of plumber o-rings (1 euro) and placed them where the original "transport" rubbers and screws where. The hum completely disappeared. I was only earing it when the volume was loud (and between songs - blank spaces).
Yes sometimes that will help. I tried it as well but the motor noise was still there. If you can hear it between tracks its still degrading the sound. I still get some motor vibration through the drive belt, but it is minimal, Take care Miguel.
Many thanks for the sound advice here. I have a dc carbon. Running at 33rpm without the platter I can feel the motor vibrating with my finger. Oddly at 45rpm it doesn't vibrate at all !! With the screws but loosened I couldn't really hear much hum on mine but if you turn up the volume on the pro-ject carbon and tap lightly on the side of the plinth you can hear it quite loud. That made me thing the plinth itself is a bit microphonic. So I took them out with my thinking that the vibration must also be being transmitted. I also remove the lid totally when in use. I also use a good quality cork mat. As I said I didn't have much problem with audible hum but with all of those things done I think that the sound seems to be somehow clearer and a lot deeper and richer - or am I imagining it ??? One other thing I did which I suppose is common sense is to get that cartridge aligned. When I got my turntable the inner groove distortion was horrible with the factory setup. I used the official Ortofon alignment card and then with the use of a thin pencil lead stuck with sticky tape the front of the cartridge through a lot of fine adjustment I made sure the alignment was perfect. I have to say that mine sounds great now and the weak link for me is the crappy power supply for my phono stage. That tone arm lift though......dear me...no comment there...
Hi TomTom I found that if i was uding a ortofon 2M cartridge and even a OM cartridge by just sliding it out to the end gave me excellent results. Doing this gives you null points at 67.414 and 114.862 mm. Glad to here you were able to reduce the noise on your turntable, losing the lid does make a difference. Cheers
@@northa4021 Hi Nothha thanks for the reply. I was listening analytically to mine again today and I really have no hum at all now. I just ordered myself a large piece of smooth slate 40cm x 40cm x 3cm + some Sorbothane feet to put under it (as an experiment) I am hoping to isolate the entire thing. I will oil the bearing too to reduce rumble as much as possible.
@@northa4021 It arrived. Its a bit bigger than expected. 50cm+50cm. I was fully expecting to say that it didn't make a difference. But I believe it has made a big difference. Not so much with background noise but everything sound clearer. Before I could tap on the side of my stand and you could hear it through the speakers. That doesn't happen now. The pro-ject might not be a high end turntable but I really think I am approaching a high end sound at least now.
@@michaelwatkins8871 what cartridge are you using? If it is a 2M series, just slide it right out to the endand you are good. The protract app can be downloaded at conrad Hoffman
Help! I did mostly resolve the hum but caused other problems- mainly that the pitch / speed was unstable. At first I thought it was an old recording taken from tape, that's what it sounded like. On close inspection I could hear the belt turning, like a sandpaper sound. Removing the sorbothane pads got rid of that issue but brought back the hum. You mentioned changing the pulley height to compensate for raising the motor- how do you do that, and do you think that's my issue? It's like the band was slipping slightly.
Good day. I have heard of this problem and some people have been able to fix it with lubrication. The trick is to get the bottom cover off the motor and getting some light oil in there. Some motors have a removable cap, that might be REGA's. I use TRIFLOW with PTFE. In Canada part# CTF21010. Good luck!
I have just bought a "Project Debut Carbon Esprit SB" (2020 model) Turntable and there is NO Hum whatsoever even at full volume on my Myriad amplifier. I am in the UK and our Mains Frequency here in Europe is 50hz at 220 volts so i am wondering if that might be part of these issues as yours i think is 60hz at 110 volts, i am reading in North America. most Hum is thru Earth loops (to many earthed items) i have had them in the past and is worth experimenting where possible to disconnect items in turn.
That is awesome. I have been wondering how the new models are performing. I am happy with mine, but still feel the motor is the weak link. The new line seems to be addressing the issue with better isolation. I still feel the motors could be better.
As far as the grounding/earth problems, I feel in my case it was because of the stock interconnects. They are so loose that one time I was listening to an LP and the left channel stopped working, the RCA had come off the Jack. So I replaced the cable and all was good. Cheers from Canada@
@Northa40 Thank you for the tips! Got a question for you. When you made the 3M dampening material pieces, did you just cut out the circles, or was it more complicated than that?
I basically traced the sub platter and than just cut it a bit smaller. I also gor rid of the blue tac and I am now using 1 oz. Apx 30gm stick on wheel weights they are heavier and stick better.
sorry to take so long. I ordered #30 1/2 diameter from eBay. The asphalt panels are 1/8 in 3M 8840 sound deadening pad. I bought mine at NAPA auto parts in Canada and only had to purchase 1 pad. www.ebay.ca/itm/143253142969?epid=3012061198&hash=item215a8d7db9:g:20IAAOSwLhtc3DWb www.ebay.ca/itm/371268558075?hash=item5671549cfb:g:B5oAAOSwNSxU6qaO
My project turntable has motor hum. I suspected but to test, I took the belt off so the record doesn't spin when started, put a record on, put stylus to record and as soon as I switch on the hum can be heard through the vinyl. I found that if I leave the transport screws in at either side of the motor it stops it but then the belt rides too low. Will this video help me, I can't hear it cos I'm at work lol
I believe so. you may have to reposition the pulley if it is a Debut carbon or similar. I used sorbathane pads under the rubber motor suspension o ring to isolate the motor vibrations.
@@northa4021 Thanks mate. I think it's actually a project comfort with the light walnut plinth. It was around £500 in about 2010. I actually complained to project that this was unacceptable at this price point as my previous cheaper project had exactly the same issue and that's why I bought the comfort. I was really pissed. You couldn't make it up.
Yup anything with the 8.6 in arm and using a Ortfon 2M series or the New Audio Technica VM 95 series. I have tried both. I am currently using a AT120eb. I think that the new ATvm95en, which I have used, is a great cat for the money and rivals the 2M blue for less $. Cheers.
@@northa4021 Thank you for your reply! I did align my cartridge and did end up moving the cartridge to the end of the tonearm alignment rails, I wonder what the reason is for Pro-Ject not aligning the factory cartridge to the overhang specs that are listed in the manual?
@@DJWolves97 the reason is slightly different null points , the cartridge angle is the same. I also find it easier to gett the cart straight on the head shell is maybe more important than the overhang. Now if this was an S shaoed tonearm with very long slots in the head shell you might have to pay closer attention to cartridge position.
Tapping the plinth will definitely cause vibration , the idea is to limit vibrations getting, by maybe using a isolation table. The motors can be taken apart and lubricated. It can be challenging removing the motor and disassembling it. It can be done. Good luck.
@@northa4021 thank you. I am not very sensible as I have just removed the red screws after 22 years after first writing you. Much of the rumbling has now gone. I have it on a foam covered bench too. Thanks for your video.
Great idea with the damp for the sub platter. Just watched a couple videos about upgrading to the aluminum sub platter and how great it is EXCEPT the spindle doesnt fit great into the bearing. So I was thinking, why not keep the resin sub platter and damp it.
I have wondered if the aluminum sub platter was better or not. I have thought about getting the acrylic platter to see it would help as well. Thanks for watching, cheers.
Just run a ground wire from your amp ground to the outer ring of the power supply connector. I used a length of 22ga stranded wire. It's not pretty but it works well...
moved power adapter to a separate outlet, 4-feet away from other plugs, and no motor hum. tried same outlet with power strip and at same distance-no hum. thanks.
@@raycarr225 what I have found is that with the motor isolated and the BELT off no hum gets to the plinth. When I install the belt the hum comes back. This tiles me that the mechanical noise is coming from the motor.
@@morrisonAV So glad you enjoyed it. This was the first and only video I have ever posted. I have no video editing software and this was free so there it is. I didn't think it blocked any of the important bits. I have made one other change. I removed the stciky tac and replaced it with stick on wheel weights. They are smaller and stick better. Cheers!
OMG that ideas were awesome ! :) thank you very much is there any kind of best tracking guide for tone arm that i can print for debut III in web? i wish to have the same well thought out turntable like You have :) I bought mine with kind small demages on the dust cover for around... 50$ :D best regards!
Well the Debut line has the same arm measurements as my 1Xpression. If you are using an ortofon OM10e or the 5e just slide the cartridge out to the end. It will be perfect. I printed mine from conradhoffman.com. Use a spindle to pivot length of 200 mm Lofgren B and the DIN setting and you will be able to print an arc protractor. Good luck, cheers
@@HughGriffiniii what I have done with other power supplies is use the plug from your original PRO-JCT p.s. I did this with my first Pro-Ject Essential. I cut the cord a swapped the end. I do believe that the outside diameter of the Pro-Ject plug is 5.5 mm.
@@northa4021 Yeah, I considered doing that but wanted to keep the plug original incase I was to sell it in the future. Hoping to find a plug at Mouser or Digikey that can be soldered to avoid a shrink wrapped lump...
@@HughGriffiniii That is what I did. I got my plugs at The Source (Radio Shack) I got another PS for my son, it is only 12 Volt and it works fine, the polarity was wrong so I had to cut wires and change it. Its not a huge difference but it dose help with the buzz, not the hum.
You've got to be kidding? $600 new and you have to go out and replace all the attachments and take it apart and rebuild the motor assembly, etc? Why would anyone want to be ripped off so badly??
@@nanchanger I agree, and this table was $1100 CDN dollars new, i paid half that. I believe that Pro-Ject has learned their lesson, they have changed the motor suspension in new Debut Evo. I haven't had the chance the audition one, but I plan to. I must say that apart from the motor issue this table does have some good qualites, good tonearm, good platter and plinth. I wouldn't pay full price for one though. Cheers!
I would agree. I think that nowadays people don't realize the potential problems with turntables and that noise and speed problems should not be tolerated. Cheers
I think there is good and bad with all tables. If you know what you are getting into you can a good table great. I paid 1/2 price for my 1 Expression carbon classic dc. Very happy with the performance now. If i had paid $1200 Canadian I would not have been happy.
@@Stublinsky I agree, that is why I bought this used, I would not by this at full price. It had been up graded to a 2M Blue cart. I knew what I was getting into and I am now happy with it. I would like to try one of the Debut Carbon EVO's to see if they fixed the hum problem with the new motor mount .
Well if you can afford it, go for it. I got this table for $550 Canadian, with a 2M Blue cart. I have done a few tweaks and it does sound Very good. I think some of the new models have dealt with the motor issues. One thing I have done is remove the blue tac and added stick on wheel balancing. They are smaller and have more mass. Cheers!
Well, yes, that is an option. I did get this used for $500 Cdn. With a 2 M Blue cart and it does sound good. So a little extra tweaking was worth it. Cheers!
@@nickwilliams1065 so sorry that it bothers you. It does not affect any of the important ideas. I have no video editing software so this was a free option. Just trying to help people that have had problems with their Pro Ject tables that have had noise issues. I hope there were some ideas thst helped you. Cheers
@@northa4021 appreciate your vid. if you make another vid ever openshot is free and very much like filmora. davinci resolve is free too and more powerful,but maybe more complex.
#1 lesson learned here is don’t buy project debut or anything in its class of turntables. That being said great research, very informative. Thank you.
Terrific video. Really appreciate your work and willingness to share. I’ll add another tip that fixed the cover hinges and seriously upgraded the user experience for me: disassemble the hinges and buff-out the length of rod arm that rotates inside the plastic housings. There’s metal burrs from the small screw punch that contributed drag. Next, create and insert a shim into the plastic housing, where the two edges meet, the goal is to keep the plastic clamp from closing too tightly on the hinge pin. I cut my shim from a thin sheet of cork. Cardboard would do, too. Next, I applied bluetac to the back of the plastic housing before screwing them back on the plinth. Add a drop of oil to the hinge, and don’t use the tiny set screws to adjust tension. They’re just gouging into the plastic housing when you do that. Adjust hinge tension using the large mounting screws. Lastly, make sure the hinges are horizontally aligned with each other when remounting. The end result is a smooth and solid feeling cover. Cheers and thanks again!
sounds good, I will have to investigate that a bit further. Thanks for the tip .
The hinges on all Pro-Ject turntables are crap, I'm not sure why they continue to make them.
I've damped the platter and sub-platter with similar bitumen based sound deadening. I've also decoupled the motor from the plinth completely by sitting it on it's own base under the table. With a cork mat and a clamp, it runs very near to silent, and the detail is incredible.
I have heard people doing that and have considered it myself. I am pretty happy with the table now but getting it completely disconnected from the plinth would be much better, for sure.
Your video made me revisit my turntable again to try and sort the noise and rumble which has been annoying me for years. My TT is a Debut 2 and must be around 23 years old now. I'm very careful with my kit and it is still as new. It forms part of my office setup - I have a high end 75 Japanese DD - Sony PS-6750 - family owned since new and 'as new' with 2M Blue for my main setup 'class A etc.'. My Debut 2 had been relegated to the garage - boxed for many years until we moved and I decided to play it again. I decided after a while that the 'cheapness' of it irritated me and after a while I replaced the platter and sub platter with Pro-ject acrylic and ally upgrades but although better, the rumble and noise was still there, the Sony's DD mechanism being totally silent. So the Pro-ject became a project. I had previously removed the motor screws and was then advised to put them back and so forth. Much jiggery pokery later and a pully and belt change - old mod - later, it was better but still rubbish. I found that the motor was being pulled into the plinth so cut up rubber washers and put them under the front part of the suspension band. Massive difference - but still not great. I replace spindle bearing and oiled it - better. I made myself believe it was good - but the mechanical rumble I had at start, between tracks and end had to be sorted. It got ignored for a while. Boredom struck and I decided to do a total upgrade - why? Was bored. So fitted Pro-Ject Carbon arm, spare 2M red, new bearing, RCA box, Evo adjustable feet (needs tapping kit) - I have to say they are expensive and crap! - no adjustment, just how far you screw them into plinth. Bear in mind, mine still has the old AC motor. Slowly improving but now I feel like I have been polishing a turd if you know what I mean. Everything fitted - well, looks good, that carbon arm looks better than that horrible steel tube. Sound? Average... watched your video and cam up with an idea... wife is a nurse, borrow stethoscope! removed screw and dampers, fitted dampers at back of support band, listened to each option with stethoscope, finally silent. Also overhang adjustment.... what did I find? After having fitted all, forgot to do cartridge alignment - been playing this thing for 6 months or more and hadn't even tightened the screws - idiot! Final result - cartridge aligned correctly, motor screws and dampers below removed, dampers put under motor belt at the rear. Many thanks for all your suggestions, after 23 years, my old project has never sounded so good.
WOW! That was a lot of tinkering. I agree some of these Pro-Jects are like polishing a turd. With cartridge alignment, I just slide mine out to the end, as long as you are using a 2M or Atvm series cart. I prefer the Blue or the ATvm95en, very good value. I am currently using a AT120eb. Very similar to the 2M blue, maybe a bit better channel separation. Unfortunately, there is motor vibration getting transmitted through the belt, very poor motors on these lower priced Pro-Jects. Great to hear from you. Cheers!
Hi, thanks so much for your reply. Interesting comment about the motor noise. Mine is an early AC motor version. Using the stethoscope I was surprised to find it silent. I understand the DC motors are quite hummy. I have now acquired the sorbothane buttons so can finish that part. Can’t remember if I mentioned I also have the pulley and round belt upgrade. Pro-Ject seem to have abandoned that. On the cartridge alignment side I find using the supplied protractor and moving 2M cartridge to the end in the slots it’s still not fully aligned, however the 2M is an awkward shape for viewing for straightness from the top. I have decided to waste more money 😆 and have bought the Align It protractor. Not used yet. I will update you in results. I am building à TT based on solid granite plinth. Not decided on arm yet. The tool will come in handy. Cheers 😃
@@janzuidhof9646 sliding the cartridge to the end does change the null points slightly buts dies delive good results. I suggest this alignment to new comers because it is easy to do and renders good results. The Pro-Ject DC models are really AC the electronics in them actually produce an AC voltage to drive the motor . From what I've read. Nice chatting.
@@northa4021 I found using the supplied paper protractor it was very difficult to actually square up the cartridge visually, not helped by the shape of the 2M cartridge. It would also help if the headshell part of the arm had lines on it so you could line up better. I have a Sony PS-6750 from '75. Lining it up is a piece if cake with the supplied protractor Both have lines on them. To me it looks like even with the 2M slid all the way to the front of the arm, it is still not perfectly aligned in either 130 and 240 positions. The protractor could also be at fault as it is thin paper. I replaced the original steel tube fixed weight arm with OM5 with a carbon arm, same length and base etc. so there should not be an alignment issue. I moved the cartridge forward after reading your article - remember I had totally forgotten to tighten up the screws originally. I find the sound more shrill on transients, hi-hat, snare drum..... almost like sibilance. Regards the motor, I realise the DC powered ones are brushless (pseudo square waver) AC. I am talking about the AC powered motor before they went wallwart DC. I now realise that of course they need to be 60Hz 110V for you. I found my 230V 50Hz is totally silent and super stable. I think sharing info on these great fun TTs is very helpful, and community spirited. It's good to talk. I will let you know how I get on. Travelling for a week. Thanks again for chat.
@@janzuidhof9646 with the Pro-Ject 8.6 in arms sliding the cartridge out to the end gives the following null points. Inner null is now 67.4 and the outer is 114.9. I printed a arc template from Conrad Hoffman . This protractor is accurate and easy to use. I printed mine on card stock. Much easier to use than the Pro-Ject one.
This Is truly an awesome video with great insights, thanks a lot!!! I wanted to add that I’ve had a similar problem regarding motor noise with a high and turntable that I purchased a while ago, and I ended up with the ultimate solution which is to put the motor completely out of the main turntable assembly. From all my experiences and trials, this is finally the only full-proof way to get any noise out of the system: the motor simply cannot be attached to the same body where the arm is. I have set it up in a very temporary (and cosmetically unappealing) form as I am still fighting to get a proper chrome or silver casing that looks good to drop the motor into, as well as trying find a proper vendor that has good turntable belts (or any kind of belts that will serve the purpose) since the original belt of the turntable can’t be used anymore (the new length is obviously different, much longer than the original). Still no clue where or how I can find or build a proper metal cylindrical case to put the motor into and that matches the rest of the turntable, and still find thing to find a good place to buy belts. Again, thanks for sharing your video :)
Glad you found it useful, I have also thought abut complete motor isolation as well but on the Pro_ject I would have to go to, as you did a much longer belt. As it is I am pretty happy but I still have some vibration through the belt. Without a major renovation I think this is as good as it is going to get. Cheers!
Here is a link to what I was thinking of doing, hood luck. lpturntables.blogspot.com/2010/11/motor-isolation-base-for-rega.html?m=1
I'm a keen table tennis player. When you replace the TT rubbers at the end of a season you are left with a highly expensive sponge and rubber sheet that has really good absorption properties. I've cut one into an in-between lower and upper platter disc to minimise motor noise transference and it seems to work well. Don't use cheap TT rubbers which can be stiffer, but tired used good ones work well.
A huge thanks for this video. I own a 1Xpression Carbon Classic with a Ortofone M2 Black and after some modding the horifc hum is gone and it's like a whole other turntable.
I used hardrive dampers for the motor and it worked great and I used a thin rubbermat between the platter and the inner platter.
The AC adapter is different here in Sweden and that didn't need to be replaced.
Glad you found this useful. I have replaced the Blue with stick on tire balance weights. Not much difference than the blue tack, just smaller and heavier. Cheers
Great informative video.Thanks🤝
The noise on my old debut sb mk1 has bothered me since i bought it, such a simple fix, and plenty more to think about. Project should offer you a job. Many, many thanks.
Glad it was helpful
If you think the Pro-Ject dust cover hinges are bad, take a look at the Regas. Those hinges look like they will break after 50 openings/closings to me.
did you reset your VTA after adding the thicker mat?
Ya I did and it makes me a bit cranky. The counter weight now touches the cover when closed. So I must play with the cover off, which I did any way . cheers
I'm using the acryl-it platter with about a 1/16 diy cork mat and just checking; it clears by maybe 1/8".@@napawestlorne5465
My EVO came with a felt you think what you have to pay for these they could put a rubber matt
Yes I agree, a nice rubber mat would be nice. Back in the day, there used to be a a mat called, "PLATTER MATTER." They where nice.
There is a little set screw in the pulley, you may have to adjust the pulley height so that it does not hit the bottom of the platter. Good luck, cheers!
I bought a RPM5 from a guy that was getting crazy with the hum. I just bought a pair of plumber o-rings (1 euro) and placed them where the original "transport" rubbers and screws where. The hum completely disappeared. I was only earing it when the volume was loud (and between songs - blank spaces).
Yes sometimes that will help. I tried it as well but the motor noise was still there. If you can hear it between tracks its still degrading the sound. I still get some motor vibration through the drive belt, but it is minimal, Take care Miguel.
@@northa4021 Yes. I know it’s not a linear fix for all. I was hearing it before the fix (between tracks), but now it’s dead quiet.
@@spiritfreemike THAT IS AWESOME! Glad you got it fixed.
Many thanks for the sound advice here. I have a dc carbon. Running at 33rpm without the platter I can feel the motor vibrating with my finger. Oddly at 45rpm it doesn't vibrate at all !! With the screws but loosened I couldn't really hear much hum on mine but if you turn up the volume on the pro-ject carbon and tap lightly on the side of the plinth you can hear it quite loud. That made me thing the plinth itself is a bit microphonic. So I took them out with my thinking that the vibration must also be being transmitted. I also remove the lid totally when in use. I also use a good quality cork mat. As I said I didn't have much problem with audible hum but with all of those things done I think that the sound seems to be somehow clearer and a lot deeper and richer - or am I imagining it ??? One other thing I did which I suppose is common sense is to get that cartridge aligned. When I got my turntable the inner groove distortion was horrible with the factory setup. I used the official Ortofon alignment card and then with the use of a thin pencil lead stuck with sticky tape the front of the cartridge through a lot of fine adjustment I made sure the alignment was perfect. I have to say that mine sounds great now and the weak link for me is the crappy power supply for my phono stage. That tone arm lift though......dear me...no comment there...
Hi TomTom I found that if i was uding a ortofon 2M cartridge and even a OM cartridge by just sliding it out to the end gave me excellent results. Doing this gives you null points at 67.414 and 114.862 mm. Glad to here you were able to reduce the noise on your turntable, losing the lid does make a difference. Cheers
@@northa4021 Hi Nothha thanks for the reply. I was listening analytically to mine again today and I really have no hum at all now. I just ordered myself a large piece of smooth slate 40cm x 40cm x 3cm + some Sorbothane feet to put under it (as an experiment) I am hoping to isolate the entire thing. I will oil the bearing too to reduce rumble as much as possible.
@@MrSouzy I have been thinking of doing something similar. maybe with a heavy butcher block. good luck, all the little things add up.
@@northa4021 I'll let you know if it makes a difference. :)
@@northa4021 It arrived. Its a bit bigger than expected. 50cm+50cm. I was fully expecting to say that it didn't make a difference. But I believe it has made a big difference. Not so much with background noise but everything sound clearer. Before I could tap on the side of my stand and you could hear it through the speakers. That doesn't happen now. The pro-ject might not be a high end turntable but I really think I am approaching a high end sound at least now.
Very useful video - made some adjustments to my Pro-Ject Debug Carbon DC - the motor hum went to nearly nothing.
Glad to hear it! Have a great holiday
@@northa4021 You as well. Where did you get your Lofgren B download? I am having trouble finding it - just finding "A".
@@michaelwatkins8871 what cartridge are you using? If it is a 2M series, just slide it right out to the endand you are good. The protract app can be downloaded at conrad Hoffman
@@michaelwatkins8871 it is only available for PC
@@michaelwatkins8871 just search conrad hoffman alignment protractor
Help! I did mostly resolve the hum but caused other problems- mainly that the pitch / speed was unstable. At first I thought it was an old recording taken from tape, that's what it sounded like. On close inspection I could hear the belt turning, like a sandpaper sound. Removing the sorbothane pads got rid of that issue but brought back the hum. You mentioned changing the pulley height to compensate for raising the motor- how do you do that, and do you think that's my issue? It's like the band was slipping slightly.
my music hall (same motor or close) is very silent BUT after like 15 minutes, it starts to buzz really loud... have you experienced this?
Good day. I have heard of this problem and some people have been able to fix it with lubrication. The trick is to get the bottom cover off the motor and getting some light oil in there. Some motors have a removable cap, that might be REGA's. I use TRIFLOW with PTFE. In Canada part# CTF21010. Good luck!
@@northa4021 thank you! i may have to try this
I got a new DC motor for my carbon, How can I transfer the small platter from the motor shaft of my old DC motor to the new one?
There is a little set screw on the pulley, I think it is 1.5 or 2mm
I have just bought a "Project Debut Carbon Esprit SB" (2020 model) Turntable and there is NO Hum whatsoever even at full volume on my Myriad amplifier. I am in the UK and our Mains Frequency here in Europe is 50hz at 220 volts so i am wondering if that might be part of these issues as yours i think is 60hz at 110 volts, i am reading in North America. most Hum is thru Earth loops (to many earthed items) i have had them in the past and is worth experimenting where possible to disconnect items in turn.
That is awesome. I have been wondering how the new models are performing. I am happy with mine, but still feel the motor is the weak link. The new line seems to be addressing the issue with better isolation. I still feel the motors could be better.
As far as the grounding/earth problems, I feel in my case it was because of the stock interconnects. They are so loose that one time I was listening to an LP and the left channel stopped working, the RCA had come off the Jack. So I replaced the cable and all was good. Cheers from Canada@
@Northa40 Thank you for the tips! Got a question for you. When you made the 3M dampening material pieces, did you just cut out the circles, or was it more complicated than that?
I basically traced the sub platter and than just cut it a bit smaller. I also gor rid of the blue tac and I am now using 1 oz. Apx 30gm stick on wheel weights they are heavier and stick better.
Rega don't even have hinges
What's sorbothane pads called soft ones and where get from and sorbothane sheet for sub platter and mm thickness needed please
sorry to take so long. I ordered #30 1/2 diameter from eBay. The asphalt panels are 1/8 in 3M 8840 sound deadening pad. I bought mine at NAPA auto parts in Canada and only had to purchase 1 pad. www.ebay.ca/itm/143253142969?epid=3012061198&hash=item215a8d7db9:g:20IAAOSwLhtc3DWb www.ebay.ca/itm/371268558075?hash=item5671549cfb:g:B5oAAOSwNSxU6qaO
Are you able to share link to pads for better positioning motor versu plinth ? Thx in advance
Yes i will do that. It might take me a day or 2 but definitely.
If you give me your email , I will send you a picture
@@northa4021 mwa1266@gmail.com. Thank you very much in advance.
@@marekwaczynski3894 www.ebay.ca/itm/143253142969?epid=3012061198&hash=item215a8d7db9:g:20IAAOSwLhtc3DWb
www.ebay.ca/itm/371268558075?hash=item5671549cfb%3Ag%3AB5oAAOSwNSxU6qaO
Going to try this myself. How do you adjust the pulley if its rubbing the bottom of the platter?
There is a small set screw on the side of the pulley. That allows you to slide up or down
Gotcha. Thank you!
My project turntable has motor hum. I suspected but to test, I took the belt off so the record doesn't spin when started, put a record on, put stylus to record and as soon as I switch on the hum can be heard through the vinyl. I found that if I leave the transport screws in at either side of the motor it stops it but then the belt rides too low. Will this video help me, I can't hear it cos I'm at work lol
I believe so. you may have to reposition the pulley if it is a Debut carbon or similar. I used sorbathane pads under the rubber motor suspension o ring to isolate the motor vibrations.
@@northa4021 Thanks mate. I think it's actually a project comfort with the light walnut plinth. It was around £500 in about 2010. I actually complained to project that this was unacceptable at this price point as my previous cheaper project had exactly the same issue and that's why I bought the comfort. I was really pissed. You couldn't make it up.
Would the trick to move the cartridge to the end of the adjustment rails work for aligning the Debut Carbon Espirit?
Yup anything with the 8.6 in arm and using a Ortfon 2M series or the New Audio Technica VM 95 series. I have tried both. I am currently using a AT120eb. I think that the new ATvm95en, which I have used, is a great cat for the money and rivals the 2M blue for less $. Cheers.
if you have PC you can down load the alignment protractor at conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm it is the third line down in the list.
@@northa4021 Thank you for your reply! I did align my cartridge and did end up moving the cartridge to the end of the tonearm alignment rails, I wonder what the reason is for Pro-Ject not aligning the factory cartridge to the overhang specs that are listed in the manual?
@@DJWolves97 the reason is slightly different null points , the cartridge angle is the same. I also find it easier to gett the cart straight on the head shell is maybe more important than the overhang. Now if this was an S shaoed tonearm with very long slots in the head shell you might have to pay closer attention to cartridge position.
If I tap my plinth gets microphonic boom sound. Soft clicking motor and rumble during playing. Pro-ject 1.2
Tapping the plinth will definitely cause vibration , the idea is to limit vibrations getting, by maybe using a isolation table. The motors can be taken apart and lubricated. It can be challenging removing the motor and disassembling it. It can be done. Good luck.
@@northa4021 thank you. I am not very sensible as I have just removed the red screws after 22 years after first writing you. Much of the rumbling has now gone. I have it on a foam covered bench too. Thanks for your video.
@@stillben Hi Ben, try listening with the cover removed. The cover amplifies the vibrations from the motor as well as ambient vibrations.
Great idea with the damp for the sub platter. Just watched a couple videos about upgrading to the aluminum sub platter and how great it is EXCEPT the spindle doesnt fit great into the bearing. So I was thinking, why not keep the resin sub platter and damp it.
I have wondered if the aluminum sub platter was better or not. I have thought about getting the acrylic platter to see it would help as well. Thanks for watching, cheers.
fantastic, do you have a link to the protractor shown in the video
Go to conradhoffman.com go to the third line down click on the link and save to your computer. This is only for PC. Good luck
you can find it here, it is for PC. It is the 3 rd. item down. www.conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm
whoa, thx for the video! a lot of effort here :)
about the PSU, do amperage matter? I can't find any decent PSU here (Argentina) that have such a low amperage, most are like 2-3 ampere psus
I believe that you would be fsafe using 2 or 3 amp supply. The one i am using is a little bit higher that the factory one. Good luck
Just run a ground wire from your amp ground to the outer ring of the power supply connector. I used a length of 22ga stranded wire. It's not pretty but it works well...
moved power adapter to a separate outlet, 4-feet away from other plugs, and no motor hum. tried same outlet with power strip and at same distance-no hum. thanks.
good to hear, or not hear in this case. Most of the cheaper Projects suffer from mechanical motor vibration causing the hum. Cheers
Must have been the voltage differences-adapter Hz affecting internal motor vibration.
Here's an article on the issue and Its corollaries: gesrepair.com/common-causes-of-motor-vibration/
The spindle under the plate development noise(not the Hum);which was resolved with sewing oil on the metal shaft...dead silent.
@@raycarr225 what I have found is that with the motor isolated and the BELT off no hum gets to the plinth. When I install the belt the hum comes back. This tiles me that the mechanical noise is coming from the motor.
The final solution it's to buy pro-ject high power it
Yes I agree up to maybe 16 volt the big thing here is a linear non switching power supply.
Where in
Canada to buy the sorbo pads and 3m sheet? Thanks!
Hi Mike I ordered them from eBay. They seem more expensive on Amazon, but that was a year ago. Good luck
3M SHEETS WERE FROM NAPA
You know what I like a huge filmora 9 banner in the middle of the screen. It blocks most of the important stuff!
I did that just for you, your so special.
@@northa4021 BTW, why WAS that banner in the image area? Very annoying.
@@morrisonAV So glad you enjoyed it. This was the first and only video I have ever posted. I have no video editing software and this was free so there it is. I didn't think it blocked any of the important bits. I have made one other change. I removed the stciky tac and replaced it with stick on wheel weights. They are smaller and stick better. Cheers!
OMG that ideas were awesome ! :) thank you very much is there any kind of best tracking guide for tone arm that i can print for debut III in web? i wish to have the same well thought out turntable like You have :) I bought mine with kind small demages on the dust cover for around... 50$ :D best regards!
Well the Debut line has the same arm measurements as my 1Xpression. If you are using an ortofon OM10e or the 5e just slide the cartridge out to the end. It will be perfect. I printed mine from conradhoffman.com. Use a spindle to pivot length of 200 mm Lofgren B and the DIN setting and you will be able to print an arc protractor. Good luck, cheers
www.conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm
Bought the Canon Power supply (K30081) you recommended. The plug is not compatible with the Pro-Ject Xpression.
ok so , yes I had to change to tip. I will measure it and get back to you this evening. Time in Ontario Canada is 9:34 am
@@northa4021 I tried to find the spec for the Pro-Ject plug. They don't list it anywhere that I could find. Appreciate the help with the measurements.
@@HughGriffiniii what I have done with other power supplies is use the plug from your original PRO-JCT p.s. I did this with my first Pro-Ject Essential. I cut the cord a swapped the end. I do believe that the outside diameter of the Pro-Ject plug is 5.5 mm.
@@northa4021 Yeah, I considered doing that but wanted to keep the plug original incase I was to sell it in the future. Hoping to find a plug at Mouser or Digikey that can be soldered to avoid a shrink wrapped lump...
@@HughGriffiniii That is what I did. I got my plugs at The Source (Radio Shack) I got another PS for my son, it is only 12 Volt and it works fine, the polarity was wrong so I had to cut wires and change it. Its not a huge difference but it dose help with the buzz, not the hum.
You've got to be kidding? $600 new and you have to go out and replace all the attachments and take it apart and rebuild the motor assembly, etc? Why would anyone want to be ripped off so badly??
Call me crazy, but for that kind of money shouldn't it be made correctly by the manufacturer, and not the buyer?
@@nanchanger I agree, and this table was $1100 CDN dollars new, i paid half that. I believe that Pro-Ject has learned their lesson, they have changed the motor suspension in new Debut Evo. I haven't had the chance the audition one, but I plan to. I must say that apart from the motor issue this table does have some good qualites, good tonearm, good platter and plinth. I wouldn't pay full price for one though. Cheers!
@@northa4021 seems to me you made it impossible to buy without feeling you got beat... Any thoughts on their Esprit model? Same issues?
@@nanchanger I think that the new Debut carbon EVO is going to be better, same arm better feet and better motor isolation, and more money.
@@northa4021 yeah it appears the Esprit is the same, but acrylic platter and speed control...
thanks for this video!!! I don’t get why would someone put up with pricey turntable like this with all the headaches and poor performance it presents
I would agree. I think that nowadays people don't realize the potential problems with turntables and that noise and speed problems should not be tolerated. Cheers
Lucky me: xpression 1
I was gonna get a Pro-ject but I think I'm gonna look else where.
I think there is good and bad with all tables. If you know what you are getting into you can a good table great. I paid 1/2 price for my 1 Expression carbon classic dc. Very happy with the performance now. If i had paid $1200 Canadian I would not have been happy.
@@Stublinsky I agree, that is why I bought this used, I would not by this at full price. It had been up graded to a 2M Blue cart. I knew what I was getting into and I am now happy with it. I would like to try one of the Debut Carbon EVO's to see if they fixed the hum problem with the new motor mount .
I think I have a better solution for Debut Carbon issues.....return it and get something else.
Well if you can afford it, go for it. I got this table for $550 Canadian, with a 2M Blue cart. I have done a few tweaks and it does sound Very good. I think some of the new models have dealt with the motor issues. One thing I have done is remove the blue tac and added stick on wheel balancing. They are smaller and have more mass. Cheers!
Or buy a different turntable
Well, yes, that is an option. I did get this used for $500 Cdn. With a 2 M Blue cart and it does sound good. So a little extra tweaking was worth it. Cheers!
why the need for the banner stuck across the screen advertising what???
Just there to make people ask questions
@@northa4021 well it blocks off a lot of what you were trying to show, so not very helpful in the long run. May as well film in the dark.
@@nickwilliams1065 so sorry that it bothers you. It does not affect any of the important ideas. I have no video editing software so this was a free option. Just trying to help people that have had problems with their Pro Ject tables that have had noise issues. I hope there were some ideas thst helped you. Cheers
@@northa4021 appreciate your vid. if you make another vid ever openshot is free and very much like filmora. davinci resolve is free too and more powerful,but maybe more complex.
@@sm1thers thanks for the tip, I will check it out.
Rega is even worse over priced junk
Rega models generally have good arms but the cheaper models can still have some motor noise.
for this filmora9 curtain you should go to jail :(
Sorry, just throwing out my ideas, and I have no video editing software or skills.
Another video with a stupid ass ad blocking the video, and this time it doesn't go away.
So glad you enjoyed the video. please leave a thumbs up on the way out. Cheers!