Oh, you mean the one character who approaches Gandalf's level of expository storytelling?? I'm just joking, but seriously, we hear his POV two different times in the form of a long, rambling story.
In all seriousness, that would be interesting. Saruman's ruffians overtake the Shire and the area around Bree pretty soon after our Hobbits leave for Rivendell. And with the Rangers heading south to join up with Aragorn, there's no one left to offer real resistance. It ends up being a very tumultuous year until the four Hobbits return and Merry and Pippin rally their countrymen to kick the invaders out. If that's not enough, Butterbur finds out that the one scruffy guy he gave a semi-insulting nickname to is now the King.
One often overlooked action by the Witch-King: Shagrat, commander of the tower of Cirith Ungol, said he received orders "Nazgûl uneasy. Spies feared on Stairs. Double vigilance. Patrol to head of Stairs." and it seems Gorbag had similar orders when he headed out from Minas Morgul. So the Witch King did not just ignore Frodo and move on with his army when he sensed him on the stairs. He sent two companies of orcs to patrol both ends of the pass of Cirith Ungol to catch him (which they did).
The simplicity of "Nazgûl uneasy" makes me imagine the fear the orcs must've been feeling at that point. Remember the bit where Sam puts on the Ring and goes after 'em and they are all terrified of this "Great Elf Warrior" that's cutting a swathe through them? Love it.
I think it's fair to say that in Sauron's army, shit runs downhill. If you're a grunt and you hear that the Nazgûl are uneasy... you better be damn worried too.
Time and again, in Lord of the Rings, evil undoes itself. The two companies of orcs end up fighting each other and wiping out most of their own number, which let Frodo and Sam make it through into Mordor. If the Witch King hadn't sent more orcs to guard the pass, there probably wouldn't have been a fight and there would have been orcs manning the tower and they would have seen Frodo and Sam trying to sneak in, or heard the alarm they raised.
There’s something about the Witch Kings fall that also mirrors other Tokien themes… it’s not the mighty Glorfindel that ends him but a humble hobbit and “just a woman”. It’s not a single warrior but a team effort. Merry, Eowin and those enemies years ago that forged that dagger. Cooperation through love not fear. And Eowin’s empathy for Merry to bring him to the battlefield because of their shared experience of being dismissed. Everything about the Witch Kings fall were things alien to him.
Yeah, that's the funny point - sexism of Tolkien that dripped into his book and caused all the fictional civilizations to adopt stupid Victorian misogynist ban on women outside of the kitchen which made WK totally invincible due to lack of not-man opponents. Had they have DEI in middle earth, it's possible someone would kill him sooner than 5000 years he got to terrorize everyone before he happened to meet girl sick of the sexism enough she singlehandedly saved the entire world (without her, WK would take Gondor, kill Aragorn and co and that would be the end right there, Sauron without distractions would notice and catch Frodo long before he reached the Cracks)...
The problem is, aeowyn IS a man. She's from the RACE of men. Merry isn't. Merry killed him. He's a hobbit. Not a man. Tolkien wasn't a feminist. That wasn't even a thing back then. The movie added that "i am no man" nonsense.
It's kind of funny to me that as soon as Wormtounge ran into the Nazghoul he just went "Nope, I do *not* get paid enough for this. The guy you're looking for is that way and by the way my boss betrayed you." And they just say thanks and let him go on his way.
They really are interesting in the books in ways that they just aren't in any of the adaptations. In the movies, they seem more like very direct extensions of Sauron's mind, but it's hard to depict something that is at the mercy of a powerful will while still being autonomous. Almost like Inception-- you give them a motivation that feels like it's their own and then they act on it somewhat freely, but their core is still bound to Saruon. You'd almost need an entire move following them to see them being individuals in their own way. Sorry... just trying to imagine what it's like to be them :)
As Robert says in the video, the Nazgûl realised that Wormtongue was evil and had betrayed his master (Saruman) so the Nazgûl just let that unfold….with the result that Wormtongue killed Saruman….so it saved them from doing that job themselves
It's a subtle distinction, but I think it's important to understand that Glorfindel's prophecy didn't create a requirement, it simply reported an observation. Basically, Glorfindel was given a vision of Eowyn and Merry defeating the Witch-King, and remarked "Huh -- no men involved." It's not that the Witch-King was invulnerable to men, it's that he was fated to die a different way. Tolkien loves playing with ideas of immutable fate despite apparent free will, and this is one of the best examples of that theme.
The subtlety of the wording is great. It was so easy for the Witch-King to interpret the words "not by the hand of man will he fall" to mean "no man (or anyone else) could ever kill him" - his hubris both lent itself to that interpretation and was fed even more by it. He seems to have simply ignored the fact that the closing phrase "will he fall" kind of implies an inevitable fall, especially when you remember that the Glorfindel's full prophecy was *"Far off yet is his doom,* and not by the hand of man will he fall." With the context of that full sentence, it's clear that Glorfindel is actually foretelling the Witch-King's eventual death, and is certainly not proclaiming his invincibility.
@@Wolfeson28 , excellent point. A less hubris-blinded character might stop and think "Okay, so I *am* going to fall at some point...what situations should I be worried about?".
@@Wolfeson28 Not even that no man could ever kill him - by the time he's gloating to Dernhelm he's convinced himself that no living man could even hinder him! It seems fitting that he got his spectral butt handed to him by a not-man (Eowyn), a not-Man (Merry) and a not-living man Man (the anonymous bladesmith of Arnor). How's THAT for hindering, you smug, invisible jerk!
@@lynnerose7891 , sort of, but in a roundabout way. It's not that a man couldn't kill him, it's that Glorfindel knows he won't die that way. It's fated, predestined. That's just the way it is, or in this case, will be. It's the Witch-King's doom, in the archaic sense of that word. There's a wonderful old story about a man in Jerusalem who goes to the market at dawn, only to see the Angel of Death staring at him from a nearby stall. Terrified, he runs away, leaps on a horse, and rides all day to Samara, where he dismounts, only for the Angel of Death to immediately take his life. "But wait!" protests the man. "I saw you just this morning in Jerusalem, staring at me!" "Yes," replies the Angel. "I was surprised to see you there, because I knew I was going to meet you at sunset in Samara." That's doom. Even if you try to escape it, you end up playing right into it instead, no matter what.
Fun fact: Professor Tolkien originally envisioned the Witch-king as the Wizard King and as Gandalf's opposite and his equal, the latter of which he is still referred to as by Denethor. He was to be an Istari who betrayed their order before this role was filled by Saruman. There was also a draft where he survived the Pelennor Fields, negotiated at the Black Gate in place of the later added on Mouth of Sauron, and confronted Frodo at Mount Doom before dying either to Sam's blade or to Frodo commanding him to follow the Ring into the lava.
The witch king didn't just ignore the feeling of Frodo in his valley. When Sam has the ring and is listening to the orcs of Cirith Ungol, Shagrat says they were told to watch for potential spies using the stairs.
@@RetroJack Considering Shelub had her hunting and nesting grounds there it's somewhat overcautious to the point of paranoia and yet he still thought to do that extra line of security. It's kind of wild how he did so many things correctly and it seems like he was just screwed over by a chain of coincidences that can only really be attributed to divine intervention.
@@Abstrakt_YT The channel's gotten large enough, and Robert does have a genuinely good voice for audio content that I'm sure its not too crazy to think a commercial deal could be made for this to happen at some point.
@@nordvestgaming1238 dude do you know how strict the Tolkien estate is about the IP? It’s probably one of the strictest in history. I would love that too but being realistic, not gunna happen
Check out the reading by Phil Dragash. You won't find it on audible or anything due to copyright, but search around and you'll find it. It's extremely well produced!
It's interesting that the witch king would think "no living man shall hinder him" would mean he was invulnerable. He lived next door to Shelob - one of the most dangerous beings in Middle Earth - who was neither male nor human, so he would have been well aware of a worrying precedent
Imagine moving from strength to strength for centuries, crushing the northern kingdom of Arnor, dealing with setbacks, and conquering your enemies, only to be mugged by a knife-wielding child and a woman in men’s armor at the height of your powers.
Not quite the height of his power, certainly the strongest he had been in centuries, the strongest since his Lord had lost the Ring, but he was still but a shadow of thepower and malice that he would have if Sauron regained the Ring
Are you sure about that? Maybe they got together for an ale on occasion. G: "I gotta say, witchy, you've been up to a great deal of mischief lately." WK: "Ah, you're just saying that to make me feel good!"
@@colindunnigan8621 Imagine that, maybe they just lay down arms every century or so and sit together for a beer. Glorfindel drinking together with the Witch King, one of the Durins playing a game of chess against the Balrog and Gandalf sharing some premium pipeweed with Sauron himself. I like to think that the tavern would be run by Tom Bombadil, who enforces strict neutrality on all patrons.
If you have access to 6th level Divination spells, you have access to the kind of power that keeps you up to date on prophecy relevant to your own existence.
iirc the Witch King was still in earshot of Glorfindel at the final battle near the northern kingdom Arnor's city of Fornost. Angmar had already destroyed the last vestiges of Arthedain (the last remnant of Arnor) but an army from Gondor and Lindon (Elves) destroyed his own conquering army and he fled at the end of that battle. The Prince of Gondor that was leading Gondor's army at the time tried to fight the Witch King personally, but the prince's horse panicked causing the prince some embarrassment when the Witch King laughed at him. Glorifindel arrives at that moment and the Witch King fled, knowing that the battle was already lost and not willing to face down a Balrog slayer. Despite fleeing though he was most likely still in earshot when Glorfindel spoke his prophecy to the Prince of Gondor, warning him not pursue the Witch King. As far as I know, the only other way the Witch King could have learned of this prophecy was when he later taunted that Prince of Gondor (by then he was actually King of Gondor) to ride to Minas Morgul for a "1v1 duel". Since the King was never heard from again, it's safe to assume that the Witch King was treacherous and could have tortured the King and learned of the prophecy then. But I think the more likely answer is what I explained above regarding being in earshot when the prophecy was uttered. Hope this was helpful! :)
A good question. Off the top of my head i would assume he could either hear Glorfindel saying it as he fled, being a wraith and once a sorcerer or great power, so its not unthinkable. Second option is that the story of the battle and the prophecy spread around and spies of mordor heard of it and reported it. Third is Sauron learning of it through the Palantir
I always thought the witch King was way over confident in the prophecy. No man may kill me? Unfortunately for you mate we have dawefs elves and wizard, who are all much harder than men and far more of a threat to you 😅 I like to think that if he'd survived his encounter with women and hobbits, an olaphont would have stepped on him a moment latter. Or a huge rock from a trebuchet 😂
Witch king: *"NO MAN MAY KILL ME."* Doctor: "that's nice. Unfortunately, you have stage 5 testicular cancer and have about 3 weeks to live." Witch king: *"BUGGER."*
Dude, that was when the word was sexist and 'man' meant 'male'. No amount of cheating would help, elf or dwarf, doesn't matter. Yeah, that's the funny point - sexism of Tolkien that dripped into his book and caused all the fictional civilizations to adopt stupid Victorian misogynist ban on women outside of the kitchen which made WK totally invincible due to lack of not-man opponents. Had they have DEI in middle earth, it's possible someone would kill him sooner than 5000 years he got to terrorize everyone before he happened to meet girl sick of the sexism enough she singlehandedly saved the entire world (without her, WK would take Gondor, kill Aragorn and co and that would be the end right there, Sauron without distractions would notice and catch Frodo long before he reached the Cracks)...
@@KuK137 I'm sorry, what do you mean "that was when..?" Middle Earth doesn't exist. It's never existed. It's a fantasy world. It's made up. You do realise that, right? Also, in Tolkien's words "man" was a distinct race separate from elves, dwarves and so on. It's why there's frequent references to "the age of Man," "the corruption of Men," "Men of the West," etc. Within the race of Men were Women, distinct from men but part of Men. Hence Eowyn and Pippin (one a woman, so technically a "Man", but not a "man," and one a Hobbit, so not a Man at all, despite being male) being able to fulfill the prophecy about the Witch King.
@KuK137 I get all that, however, prophecy is notoriously tricksy and false, I just really like the idea of the WC rolling through life thinking he's got this in the bag, and then gets hit by lightning while he's flying (metal crown/ helmet after all) and his last thoughts are, oh so that's why glorfindel was sniggering when he made the profecy. Prophecy coming true but in comically tragic misunderstanding and false confidence is kinda profecys whole jam 😁
@KuK137 also, while what you say is mostly true, there is at least one example of a non human, non male, very powerful, who presumably could have killed the WC regardless of how the prophecy was intended. Galadriel. She would also presumably be one of the ppl most likely to know the history of the barrow downs, and know about anti WC weapons, having been around for all of it
The Witch King's demise didn't trigger a full scale rout of Sauron's forces, the lieutenant Gothmog took charge and brought more forces up the road from Osgiliath. And while the initial charge of the Rohirrim had gone quite well, the war elephants of the Haradrim served as rally points for Mordor's troops.* Had Aragorn and the soldiers from Anfalas and Belfalas not shown up when they did, Minas Tirith may still have been lost. Even after that, many contingents of Sauron's army still fought to the last. A messy, brutal, slaughter. *It's a testament that JRRT knew enough about ancient and medieval warfare to know that horses are terrified of elephants and won't approach them (unless they've been trained for it). Something that the movies spectacularly failed to show.
@@Welverin So very true. I loved the movies, I have seen them multiple times... But. It broke my heart when they kept cutting others virtue in the dark times. Faramir was a worthy man of the west. Knowing, he let them go. Tom Bombadil was above it, but helped them twice. Plus a puzzle about who is this guy. More than a Maiar? Was he even from there? We all know a book to movie cannot be precise. Time, inner monologs, time, writers favorite material. Just unlucky it hit several of my favorite characters.
The witch king gets some autonomy because he was reshaped and modeled by Sauron after thousands of years of control and domination. The wraiths are almost another extension of the dark lord
I do believe the point is that they are not puppets. Sauron does not control them like remote control tools, drones, or video game characters. They are capable of thinking and acting on their own, even though they may have no will or desires own and only enact Saurons.
To be honest, I’ve always interpreted his doubt, after Éowyn’s gender reveal, as a compliment to his mind. In most ancient heroic tales with prophecies, great men often fail to even consider the possibility that they might have misunderstood the prophecy. He, on the other hand, immediately goes, "Oh, damn, that could be it." After a brief pause, he seems to think, "After everything I’ve done, am I really going to die because of a stupid wordplay?" And then he flies into a rage. Obviously, that’s not explicitly in the text, but that’s how I read it. He’s proud, sure. But he’s also clever-clever enough that even in his proudest moment, the moment where centuries of work have finally paid off, he’s still capable of entertaining the notion that he might have missed something important.
Not bad? Cliff was a gem. Used to pay for the water cooler in the office out of his own pocket. Didn’t need to, but that was Cliff. God I miss that guy.
The moment when Eowyn confronts the Witch King and reveals herself to be a woman is one of the best moments in either the books or the films. I know the films changed many things, and mostly very appropriately so for the change in genre. But that scene in particular is one which the film got very right.
As someone who only read the books once, I love these videos not only because they delve deeply into the lore, but because they only serve to highlight my many mis-memories of those books. Honestly, the more things I strongly remember that turned out to be completely false is...kind of thrilling, really. I don't know where it comes from. So Frodo rode to Rivendell alone? I remembered him being taken by a male elf - potentially Glorfindel - in a section that was similar to the sequence given to Arwen by Peter Jackson. Feel free to put on your best Alan Partridge voice and say "STOP GETTING TOLKEIN WRONG!"
Robert you are an absolute treasure. Your narration of these stories are absolutely priceless, im really astounded by your work. Completely mesmerized by everything you put out. Salute to the finest in this genre.
Sounds like the Witch King did everything right in his campaign against Gondor, simply every single variable went against him. Don’t forget he left a force screening Rohan’s route only for a group of natives to show Rohan secret routes. It is not unfortunate that he amassed a force to overwhelm Gondor, broke the will of the Steward, brought together the tools to smash the gate. It is unfortunate for him that a wizard was present, the king defeated his diversion plan with an army of the dead, and he was stabbed in the heel with a magic blade.
The witch king at Mina’s morgul was not aware he was sensing a ring bearer and he did not specifically use magic to get a ring bearer to put a ring on. If either had been the case he would never have rode off. Instead he had a vague sense of being watched and stretched out with his evil spirit of fear to try to out a potential spy. This happened to affect Frodo but is not at all a sign the witch king knew the nature of the enemy he sensed.
One thing I'll say about Peter Jackson's films, the horses the Nazgul rode were absolutely terrifying. Far more so than the fell beasts they flew on. I suppose it's because a horse us something we have IRL and they were made monstrous. It's familiarity, but twisted and darkened.
Horses can also be quite terrifying animals up close when they want to be, but you never really get that side of them in most films. Jackson did a fantastic job of conveying that, and you're right, warped them into a darkened creature, familiar yet unfamiliar.
He was struck down by 2 people who were not men. I'm not sure if Eowyn could have struck him if he had not stumbled forward after Merry's stroke. Not to take anything away from our heroine.
100% Eowyn was the main driver and her courage was immense, but without Merry stabbing him with the Barrow Blade he wouldn’t have died. It made him vulnerable due to the magic it was forged with. It honestly annoys me that they weren’t both celebrated like Sam and Frodo were on the Field of Cormallen.
Eowyn standing up to the Witch King gave Merry the courage and opportunity to deal the killing blow; but the strike she landed herself had no effect on the Witch King - the sword she used, being non-magical, exploded on contact given her a terrible wound. It is a bitter irony that her bravery alone set the stage for his downfall, but she did not know that, and in her righteous furry she did what she thought needed doing. It is the fog of war that makes you ack on the best understanding of the situation at hand. Neither Eowyn nor Merry knew that their combined actions would defeat the chief of the Nazgûl, but they both knew that they had to try.
I like to think Gandalf could have slain the Witch-King as well, as he definitely was not a man. Extra power or not, the Lord of the Nazgul wasn't as strong as a balrog, which Gandalf had finished when he was the Grey Wizard. Gandalf said after the battle of Pelennor that only Sauron was stronger than he. Had the Witch-King stayed at the gate to the city, Gandalf clearly would have destroyed him.
@rikk319 Agreed. In the Silmarillion, Tolkien says that the gender of the Valar was a matter of choice and appearance. It was probably the same for the Maiar.
well, "Hobbits! Shire! Baggins!" But yeah. For me one of the things that really falls apart is that all these cats are supposed to be psychic, have all these magic items, and yet can't even find this entire nation. Was there some such group that was unknown in say the 1300's in Europe, the size of the Shire but somehow unknown to ANYBODY?
@@lqr824 In the context of medieval Europe, sure that wouldn't make any sense. The rival and even enemy kingdoms in medieval Europe were still in FAR more communication than Sauron's forces were with basically every kingdom West of them. European medieval kingdoms all shared a religion, for most of the period a Church, extremely extensive trade networks, and an extremely complex series of legal systems and networks through their royal families and legal frameworks and that meant communication with one another was always going to be relevant and necessary. Nothing of the sort was shared between Sauron and any kingdom of the West. Though Sauron wasn't always warring with the kingdoms of Men, Elves, Dwarves, etc, they seemed to have remained perma-enemies and never once trusted each other or even traded, really. Sauron probably didn't even know what a hobbit was, and the hobbits that settled the Shire originally came there because they were fleeing orcs that had raised their homeland. So they settled the Shire for the very purpose of hiding from Sauron's forces. It actually seems most likely that Sauron himself didn't at first know what any of those three words were supposed to mean, they probably just sounded like three random non sequiturs. Kind of tragically fits Golum's character that even after tortured for information, he doesn't provide anything that is apparently meaningful.
The Witch-king of Angmar has always been 1 of the most intriguing characters in all of Tolkien's work. So much mystery surrounding him. I very much enjoyed this video! Would love if you did a similar dive into the Witch-king's story. Starting back when he was corrupted by Sauron, through to his deeds up to the 3rd age.
I have technical questions. - If a cloak make them visible does that means that all clothes do ? And therefore were they scouting naked across the Middle-Earth ? - If the art are correct and they do were full plate armors, how do the armor-smiths of Mordor make them fit as all proper plate armors should ? Do they go through a process of trial and error or do the nazgul have a kind of medical file somewhere with their mensurations ?
The Nazgul were more like evil spirits most of the time. I think it's less a question of clothes so much as that appearance of clothing means that they're sort of 'manifesting' into the world. And I'd say given their master, there's a decent chance that Sauron himself made their plate. Or at least knew them well enough that it wasn't a question of sizing so much as conceptual linkage. The ghosts of armour for the ghosts of men. Either way, LotR for the most part doesn't give a shit about details like that. The story's never about technical grit.
I imagine their armors were made when they more resembled men of flesh and blood, having been worn for hundreds of years, with the rust and decay of the metal only adding to the Nazgul's look of dread and terror. The Nazgul were immensely powerful, and so their armor would rarely be struck by any sword, meaning repairs would be far in between.
Ive been watching your vids for years and i never took the time to tell you how much i love them 🥰 thanks for making such great stuff, it really brightens my day every time i watch one.
14:58 "....a form of prophetic armor..." ...So the last few seconds of his life, or 'un-life'..." So much good writing here, so well expressed and engaging; excellent storytelling, and like reading the books themselves, a great pleasure for the listener. Incidentally, the Witch-king's confrontation with Gandalf is my favorite scene in the books (and consequently, my least favorite scene in the films).
When the Witch King sensed the Ring outside Minas Morgul he was bamboozled because of where he was. He assumed after a short while the pull of the Ring was a general portent regarding his quest, and not that the Ring was close by.
17:07 "...he realized how wrong he has been..." but he never showed any sign of being sorry for the evil he had done, and this condemned him for eternity.
I love these "from ___'s perspective" videos! They're a wonderful paradigm through which to consider the legendarium from. Some of my favorite videos about Middle Earth!
Hey Robert I’ve been a member of your channel for a while now and have to say what a fantastic story teller you are and can always get all the details and break them down! Your channel is awesome brother!!! ❤
It strikes me that the voice never being heard again in that age of the world is a lot less impressive when you consider that the Fourth Age was only ten days away (by Gondorian reckoning), or, at the most, within three years (by Hobbit reckoning).
@@lqr824 In Tolkien's works, there's a new Age whenever there's a significant world-changing event - the First Age began with the first sunrise; the change from First to Second Ages came when Morgoth was defeated and cast out of the world; the transition from Second to Third Age is generally reckoned to come, not with the Downfall of Numenor and Changing of the World, but instead with the defeat of Sauron by the Last Alliance. The final defeat of Sauron, the end of the power of the Rings, and the passing of the Elves (and Ringbearers) into the West is the collection of changes that mark the transition between Third and Fourth Ages. Depending which date you pick, the Third Age could have ended with the destruction of the One Ring, or could have continued until the departure of the Ringbearers a couple of years later. The difference of opinion between Gondorian calendars and those of the Hobbits in the Shire were helped by the Hobbits' Shire Reckoning counting years from the official founding of the Shire, and not resetting the count for the new Age, so there's always going to be a conversion between the two calendars anyway.
@@lqr824They had different calendar systems (just as different irl cultures have had different calendar systems at the same time). I don’t know why the end of the age was counted differently between them though.
I still don’t understand why the witch king thought stabbing Frodo was enough, the good guys had Frodo with them healing him and even if he faded I imagine one of the good guys like sam would have taken it before he passed into shadow, the only way I can think it would have been a victory is if Frodo joined them and told them the plan to destroy the ring
Hobbits, or at least many of them, are unusually resistant to the effects of a Morgul blade. I think it was Gandalf (or possibly Aragorn) who later told Frodo that even very mighty Men would have succumbed to the wound Frodo got. Also, the fight where Frodo was stabbed was at Weathertop and occurred well before the plan to destroy the One Ring was made.
If I recall correctly, the poison in Frodo usually brought its target low within a few days at most. But this sturdy hobbit held out a couple of weeks. Witch King wasn't expecting them to get so close to Rivendell, and certainly didn't expect Glorfindel to show up. I also don't think he knew about the enchanted swords that could affect wraiths. Probably wouldn't have gone for the slow burn approach if he did. He probably figured that Frodo as a wraith could easily kill his companions, and without those swords, he might've been right.
Gandalf and Shadowfax facing the Witch King at the gates is my favourite passage from anything ever. The first time I read it - and still - I got chills. Such powerful imagery.
What puzzles me is: Why didn't he know or at least make an educated guess where the Shire was? The Hobbits had been in Arthedain for more than 300 year before Fornost fell. And they didn't sneak in; they were officially recognized and given (very good) land by Aragorn's ancestors. And Hobbits stand out in that they look very different than all other men. So, he knew Gollum (particularly, his size) and he found out that the Stoors no longer settled in their Hobbit holes near the Anduin. Why didn't he at that point connect the dots and rode directly towards the Shire/ the settlements he must have known were in Arthedain?
There was a joke that the Nazgûl mistook who Bilbo was based on what they could peace together. A great burgled that travel to steal from the greatest dragon alive, stole the greatest treasure in its hoard, survived a battle of 5 armies without a scratch, was awarded 1/13 of the largest treasure ever known. He used a sword of ancient elven design, and worse armor made of the rates metal In The world. and lastly he has the One Ring. It most likely very confused the Nazgûl and the witch king as to where the ring was actually hiding as all their beliefs didn’t really account for some one with all of that leaving the ring to their nephew and have it lying around unguarded .
@@SpottedHares Yeah, after hearing that story I wouldn‘t be surprised if Sauron unconsciously dismissed rumors about some incredibly weak, peaceful creatures living far of from his current objectives. They must have flown under his radar since they are absolutely uninteresting to him compared to pretty much everyone else in middle earth. He sat his eyes upon the mighty and the story of the master thief seemed to support that approach.
Hobbits are a fairly reclusive bunch. They keep to themselves a great deal and prior to the events of The Hobbit really hadn't shown up in the histories of the world. In all likelihood, neither Sauron or the Witch King had ever encountered a Hobbit or at least didn't pay them any mind if either crossed paths with one.
The Shire wasn't necessarily named that while the Witch-king was still in the area. Place names take a while to develop; sometimes they are changed over centuries, and that becomes still more likely over millennia. News travels fastest in dense populations; the entire north-west of Middle-Earth had been relatively empty for quite a while after Angmar finished off the last of the kings. It is logically to be presumed that there simply wasn't a continuous chain of open communication all the way from Bree to Gondor. Gandalf seemed to say as much in different words.
I just love how you know these worlds of fantasy and know how to talk about them. I wished one day you’d make a video about my books as well. In a far future perhaps, but one day.
Always loved “In Deep Geek”. One question though, what ever happened to the travel guide videos you used to make? The one where you give a narrative of a city as if you were a traveler in the world experiencing themself? I loved those and can’t find them!
Excellently narrated! Pride before the fall indeed! Such a parallel to real life and spiritual villains, no doubt Sir Tolkien was influenced by what he witnessed in WWI and by his Catholic faith.
I would have loved to have seen more of how Mordor runs in the movies. Sauron and the relationships with his lieutenants, Orc ranks and tribes (fighting pits) etc. would have been the perfect opportunity to venture more into Mordor in the lands of Nurn or even Rhun to the east. The trilogy was perfect in its own right, but we could have seen more.
I'm obsessed with the question of: what did they EAT? Dwarves underground, elves and men in cities, orcs in camps, balrogs, watchers, giant spiders, dragons, fell beasts. Armies are basically questions not of arms but of logisitics. Whither the leather, the steel, the bread?
Another great video, thanks Robert. I love your voice, poetic narration, and appreciate your knowledge. I don't usually write comments, but recently many LOTR themed YT channels popped up on my flow. Many of them use AI images... as an artist I support your attitude about the images you use. Cheers.
Loves this channel. Loves the demise of the villains in this story -- so delicious. Rues the demise of the heroes -- so tragic and beautiful. Such a wonderful piece of art.
The Peter Jackson films influences fan art so much, that the character's appearance feels like cannon. It would be fun to go back and only look at pre Peter Jackson art of The Lord of the Rings. Was there a consensus of how Frodo looked, or Galadriel? Do you have a pre Peter Jackson artist?
Tolkien drew an image of Bilbo in his entry hall, smoking a pipe. On the wall is a pendulum clock (!) --- but Not a cuckoo. In The Hobbit Gandalf chides Bilbo for not dusting under the clock on the mantel in the parlour. Tolkien had a bit of a tendency to include such anachronistic but charming details.
Yes, and unfortunately this has entrenched misconceptions such as Sauron being a flaming eye on top of Barad Dur, which is entirely Peter Jackson's invention. Sauron is depicted like that in every piece of art or media these days. People don't go back to the source material any more, so all of Peter Jackson's deviations from the books have become some sort of canon.
My interpretation was not that the Witch King was trying to will Frodo into putting on the ring in the Morgul Vale, but rather, the Ring was trying to overpower Frodo's will to put it on because it knew it was so close. Just like it convinced him to put it on while at Weather Top. The ring, after all, had a will of its own. Even the Ring Wraiths spoke to it at the Ford of Rivendell. 'Come back! Come back!’ they called. ‘To Mordor we will take you!'
I always thought him an obedient servant. Never as a faithful general that was capable of independent thought and ambition. Your presentation of his plans, ambition, dedication, and pride really put this character into new perspective.
Keep it up great work ! Here are some suggestions : Why cutting the ring off defeated Sauron in battle of Dagorlad ? What was the exact plan of Saruman ? What do we know of Gobblintown ?
They don't talk a lot, most of their conversations are probably telepathic or non-verbal. They have personalities but are completely dominated by the will of Sauron. I am not sure you could do a lot with a set of characters like that.
@@christianriddler5063 Disagree, the story how they turned from men into the Nazgul, kings with a thirst for power and greed. How they turned their kingdoms into ash, and lost their souls to the magic of the rings! Working up from men, then like gollum show how they fell. Not like Amazon would make it though 🤣🤣
The main reason why is simply because movies are an audio-visual medium, and books are just text. You can't stop the plot in a movie to explain how a character is feeling or what they're thinking, like you can with a book. Some things can be explained easily with text, but would require cumbersome exposition in a movie format, which is probably the cause for a few lost characters. Movies have stricter rules on pacing and length. There simply isn't enough time to get it all in.
@@tTaseric yeah, sometimes you'd need to have entire scenes filmed for events that characters describe, like was done with the Balrog fight in the Two Towers, and even then half of Gandalf's account of that event as is in the book was left out from th movie because it would be too long as you said. I suppose in books you can get away with long exposition like this because the rest of text is descriptions of environments, actions and feelings which already slow things down. another example is how Aragorn found and captured Gollum and it's only a paragraph in the books, but never mentioned in the movies and instead that part of the story is getting an entire movie on its own
The movies also added stuff not in the books, though, and expanded battle scenes greatly. That to me argues that lack of time was not actually their motivation to cut things.
In the Pellenor Fields, when Eowyn and Merry dispatched the Witch King, what happened to his ring? Did it dissolve along with the Nazgûl who wielded it? Was it also affected by the ancient blade that Merry wielded? Or did it remain intact, and was left lying there on the field for any scavenger to pick up?
I think it can be argued that the resolve of the evil armies is not so much of a real thing that can be broken by the death of one like the Witch King. Rather, the will of the Witch King holds them in line with fear. Once that is gone, they break free to flee. They are ruled by fear, and if when the fear of the enemy outweighs the fear of their leader, they crumble. It is similar to Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire books. He introduced the idea that the Imperial Navy was being directly influenced by the Force powers of the Emperor. When he died, they fell into disarray because no longer was there a single will driving them. Thus, they were routed by the smaller and less equipped Rebel forces. Certainly, the magic of the Witch King would have held the army together at the Pelennor Fields.
I've probably missed something fundamental, but if, under torture, the only words that Gollum uttered were "Baggins" and "Shire", how did Sauron know initially that Baggins was a person (hobbit) and Shire was a place in order for him to despatch the Nazgul on their search mission?
I think Gollum gave it all up. Remember Gandalf could tell what happened to and what Frodo had been thinking while he was asleep. He read Frodo's mind, so Sauron could probably do something similar to Gollum. If so, why torture him? It's fun and it was a day that ended with a "Y", which was the only reason he needed.
I just watched your Cirdan video before this and it is interesting to contrast the difference between two for whom Foresight had revealed their future. Cirdan became a hero and sacrificed everything before he could attain Valinor, while the Witch King was still ruled by fear and selfishness (no doubt those were the seeds of accepting his ring from the onset). Side note- I was thinking of Caddy Shack and the "I've been told that I'll see Valinor in my lifetime, so I've got that going for me" vibes :)
Still waiting for the Lord of the Rings from the Innkeeper at the Prancing Pony's perspective
That's a long story, he's a really busy guy
Oh, you mean the one character who approaches Gandalf's level of expository storytelling?? I'm just joking, but seriously, we hear his POV two different times in the form of a long, rambling story.
Why have that when you can have it from Bill, the pony?
Then from Bob and Nobs perspective
In all seriousness, that would be interesting. Saruman's ruffians overtake the Shire and the area around Bree pretty soon after our Hobbits leave for Rivendell. And with the Rangers heading south to join up with Aragorn, there's no one left to offer real resistance. It ends up being a very tumultuous year until the four Hobbits return and Merry and Pippin rally their countrymen to kick the invaders out.
If that's not enough, Butterbur finds out that the one scruffy guy he gave a semi-insulting nickname to is now the King.
One often overlooked action by the Witch-King: Shagrat, commander of the tower of Cirith Ungol, said he received orders "Nazgûl uneasy. Spies feared on Stairs. Double vigilance. Patrol to head of Stairs." and it seems Gorbag had similar orders when he headed out from Minas Morgul. So the Witch King did not just ignore Frodo and move on with his army when he sensed him on the stairs. He sent two companies of orcs to patrol both ends of the pass of Cirith Ungol to catch him (which they did).
Thank you, I've never realised that. It does make him seem more competent and smart.
The simplicity of "Nazgûl uneasy" makes me imagine the fear the orcs must've been feeling at that point. Remember the bit where Sam puts on the Ring and goes after 'em and they are all terrified of this "Great Elf Warrior" that's cutting a swathe through them? Love it.
I think it's fair to say that in Sauron's army, shit runs downhill. If you're a grunt and you hear that the Nazgûl are uneasy... you better be damn worried too.
@@eliasripley2357 I mean there is Glorfindel out there somewhere. Samwise basically appeared like Glorfindel to them.
Time and again, in Lord of the Rings, evil undoes itself. The two companies of orcs end up fighting each other and wiping out most of their own number, which let Frodo and Sam make it through into Mordor. If the Witch King hadn't sent more orcs to guard the pass, there probably wouldn't have been a fight and there would have been orcs manning the tower and they would have seen Frodo and Sam trying to sneak in, or heard the alarm they raised.
There’s something about the Witch Kings fall that also mirrors other Tokien themes… it’s not the mighty Glorfindel that ends him but a humble hobbit and “just a woman”. It’s not a single warrior but a team effort. Merry, Eowin and those enemies years ago that forged that dagger. Cooperation through love not fear. And Eowin’s empathy for Merry to bring him to the battlefield because of their shared experience of being dismissed. Everything about the Witch Kings fall were things alien to him.
Yeah, that's the funny point - sexism of Tolkien that dripped into his book and caused all the fictional civilizations to adopt stupid Victorian misogynist ban on women outside of the kitchen which made WK totally invincible due to lack of not-man opponents. Had they have DEI in middle earth, it's possible someone would kill him sooner than 5000 years he got to terrorize everyone before he happened to meet girl sick of the sexism enough she singlehandedly saved the entire world (without her, WK would take Gondor, kill Aragorn and co and that would be the end right there, Sauron without distractions would notice and catch Frodo long before he reached the Cracks)...
How wonderfully profound. Thank you ❤
The problem is, aeowyn IS a man. She's from the RACE of men. Merry isn't. Merry killed him. He's a hobbit. Not a man.
Tolkien wasn't a feminist. That wasn't even a thing back then.
The movie added that "i am no man" nonsense.
Evil forever underestimates altruism and humor
It's kind of funny to me that as soon as Wormtounge ran into the Nazghoul he just went "Nope, I do *not* get paid enough for this. The guy you're looking for is that way and by the way my boss betrayed you." And they just say thanks and let him go on his way.
They really are interesting in the books in ways that they just aren't in any of the adaptations. In the movies, they seem more like very direct extensions of Sauron's mind, but it's hard to depict something that is at the mercy of a powerful will while still being autonomous. Almost like Inception-- you give them a motivation that feels like it's their own and then they act on it somewhat freely, but their core is still bound to Saruon. You'd almost need an entire move following them to see them being individuals in their own way. Sorry... just trying to imagine what it's like to be them :)
As Robert says in the video, the Nazgûl realised that Wormtongue was evil and had betrayed his master (Saruman) so the Nazgûl just let that unfold….with the result that Wormtongue killed Saruman….so it saved them from doing that job themselves
@@Kay-xb9cpOf course, by the time Wormtongue killed Saruman it hardly mattered to the Nazgul.
@@dutchmansmine9053 Revenge is a dish best served cold, misty, and blown to the east.
@@patercrono Nooice!!
hey robert, this is everyone.
Not really though. 😅
@@THE_MILLENNIAL_AFRICAN😮
Welcome
Hi, Robert! We love you! Thank you for being our geeky UA-cam friend!
THIS. IS. EVERYONE
Woha. I gotta have to admit that it was a pretty brave action by Khamûl The Easterling to confront Farmer Maggot. 4:48
It's a subtle distinction, but I think it's important to understand that Glorfindel's prophecy didn't create a requirement, it simply reported an observation. Basically, Glorfindel was given a vision of Eowyn and Merry defeating the Witch-King, and remarked "Huh -- no men involved." It's not that the Witch-King was invulnerable to men, it's that he was fated to die a different way. Tolkien loves playing with ideas of immutable fate despite apparent free will, and this is one of the best examples of that theme.
The subtlety of the wording is great. It was so easy for the Witch-King to interpret the words "not by the hand of man will he fall" to mean "no man (or anyone else) could ever kill him" - his hubris both lent itself to that interpretation and was fed even more by it. He seems to have simply ignored the fact that the closing phrase "will he fall" kind of implies an inevitable fall, especially when you remember that the Glorfindel's full prophecy was *"Far off yet is his doom,* and not by the hand of man will he fall." With the context of that full sentence, it's clear that Glorfindel is actually foretelling the Witch-King's eventual death, and is certainly not proclaiming his invincibility.
@@Wolfeson28 , excellent point. A less hubris-blinded character might stop and think "Okay, so I *am* going to fall at some point...what situations should I be worried about?".
Which made him invulnerable to men.
@@Wolfeson28 Not even that no man could ever kill him - by the time he's gloating to Dernhelm he's convinced himself that no living man could even hinder him!
It seems fitting that he got his spectral butt handed to him by a not-man (Eowyn), a not-Man (Merry) and a not-living man Man (the anonymous bladesmith of Arnor).
How's THAT for hindering, you smug, invisible jerk!
@@lynnerose7891 , sort of, but in a roundabout way. It's not that a man couldn't kill him, it's that Glorfindel knows he won't die that way. It's fated, predestined. That's just the way it is, or in this case, will be. It's the Witch-King's doom, in the archaic sense of that word.
There's a wonderful old story about a man in Jerusalem who goes to the market at dawn, only to see the Angel of Death staring at him from a nearby stall. Terrified, he runs away, leaps on a horse, and rides all day to Samara, where he dismounts, only for the Angel of Death to immediately take his life.
"But wait!" protests the man. "I saw you just this morning in Jerusalem, staring at me!"
"Yes," replies the Angel. "I was surprised to see you there, because I knew I was going to meet you at sunset in Samara."
That's doom. Even if you try to escape it, you end up playing right into it instead, no matter what.
Fun fact: Professor Tolkien originally envisioned the Witch-king as the Wizard King and as Gandalf's opposite and his equal, the latter of which he is still referred to as by Denethor. He was to be an Istari who betrayed their order before this role was filled by Saruman. There was also a draft where he survived the Pelennor Fields, negotiated at the Black Gate in place of the later added on Mouth of Sauron, and confronted Frodo at Mount Doom before dying either to Sam's blade or to Frodo commanding him to follow the Ring into the lava.
The witch king didn't just ignore the feeling of Frodo in his valley. When Sam has the ring and is listening to the orcs of Cirith Ungol, Shagrat says they were told to watch for potential spies using the stairs.
I'd think that would've been a common-sense policy, regardless of what the Witch King felt, and as such, was no doubt already in effect.
@@RetroJack Considering Shelub had her hunting and nesting grounds there it's somewhat overcautious to the point of paranoia and yet he still thought to do that extra line of security. It's kind of wild how he did so many things correctly and it seems like he was just screwed over by a chain of coincidences that can only really be attributed to divine intervention.
I could listen to your voice for hours, it’s so relaxing. You should do a reading of the LoTRs books.
I’m sure there is some copyright issues there
I often fall asleep listening to his vids last thing at night, not because they're boring, but his voice has a soporific effect
@@Abstrakt_YT The channel's gotten large enough, and Robert does have a genuinely good voice for audio content that I'm sure its not too crazy to think a commercial deal could be made for this to happen at some point.
@@nordvestgaming1238 dude do you know how strict the Tolkien estate is about the IP? It’s probably one of the strictest in history. I would love that too but being realistic, not gunna happen
Check out the reading by Phil Dragash. You won't find it on audible or anything due to copyright, but search around and you'll find it. It's extremely well produced!
"I'll do a whole other video on exactly what happened there If you're interested"
YES PLEASE!!!
Great experience as always!
It's interesting that the witch king would think "no living man shall hinder him" would mean he was invulnerable. He lived next door to Shelob - one of the most dangerous beings in Middle Earth - who was neither male nor human, so he would have been well aware of a worrying precedent
Imagine moving from strength to strength for centuries, crushing the northern kingdom of Arnor, dealing with setbacks, and conquering your enemies, only to be mugged by a knife-wielding child and a woman in men’s armor at the height of your powers.
That’s hubris for you.
Not quite the height of his power, certainly the strongest he had been in centuries, the strongest since his Lord had lost the Ring, but he was still but a shadow of thepower and malice that he would have if Sauron regained the Ring
The use of “mugged” here is beautiful. I will never see that scene the same way again. Lmao
I always wondered how the Witch King learned of Glorfindel’s prophecy. It’s not like the two drank together every week at the Prancing Pony
Are you sure about that? Maybe they got together for an ale on occasion.
G: "I gotta say, witchy, you've been up to a great deal of mischief lately."
WK: "Ah, you're just saying that to make me feel good!"
@@colindunnigan8621 Imagine that, maybe they just lay down arms every century or so and sit together for a beer. Glorfindel drinking together with the Witch King, one of the Durins playing a game of chess against the Balrog and Gandalf sharing some premium pipeweed with Sauron himself. I like to think that the tavern would be run by Tom Bombadil, who enforces strict neutrality on all patrons.
If you have access to 6th level Divination spells, you have access to the kind of power that keeps you up to date on prophecy relevant to your own existence.
iirc the Witch King was still in earshot of Glorfindel at the final battle near the northern kingdom Arnor's city of Fornost. Angmar had already destroyed the last vestiges of Arthedain (the last remnant of Arnor) but an army from Gondor and Lindon (Elves) destroyed his own conquering army and he fled at the end of that battle. The Prince of Gondor that was leading Gondor's army at the time tried to fight the Witch King personally, but the prince's horse panicked causing the prince some embarrassment when the Witch King laughed at him. Glorifindel arrives at that moment and the Witch King fled, knowing that the battle was already lost and not willing to face down a Balrog slayer. Despite fleeing though he was most likely still in earshot when Glorfindel spoke his prophecy to the Prince of Gondor, warning him not pursue the Witch King.
As far as I know, the only other way the Witch King could have learned of this prophecy was when he later taunted that Prince of Gondor (by then he was actually King of Gondor) to ride to Minas Morgul for a "1v1 duel". Since the King was never heard from again, it's safe to assume that the Witch King was treacherous and could have tortured the King and learned of the prophecy then. But I think the more likely answer is what I explained above regarding being in earshot when the prophecy was uttered.
Hope this was helpful! :)
A good question. Off the top of my head i would assume he could either hear Glorfindel saying it as he fled, being a wraith and once a sorcerer or great power, so its not unthinkable. Second option is that the story of the battle and the prophecy spread around and spies of mordor heard of it and reported it. Third is Sauron learning of it through the Palantir
I always thought the witch King was way over confident in the prophecy. No man may kill me? Unfortunately for you mate we have dawefs elves and wizard, who are all much harder than men and far more of a threat to you 😅 I like to think that if he'd survived his encounter with women and hobbits, an olaphont would have stepped on him a moment latter. Or a huge rock from a trebuchet 😂
Witch king: *"NO MAN MAY KILL ME."*
Doctor: "that's nice. Unfortunately, you have stage 5 testicular cancer and have about 3 weeks to live."
Witch king: *"BUGGER."*
Dude, that was when the word was sexist and 'man' meant 'male'. No amount of cheating would help, elf or dwarf, doesn't matter. Yeah, that's the funny point - sexism of Tolkien that dripped into his book and caused all the fictional civilizations to adopt stupid Victorian misogynist ban on women outside of the kitchen which made WK totally invincible due to lack of not-man opponents. Had they have DEI in middle earth, it's possible someone would kill him sooner than 5000 years he got to terrorize everyone before he happened to meet girl sick of the sexism enough she singlehandedly saved the entire world (without her, WK would take Gondor, kill Aragorn and co and that would be the end right there, Sauron without distractions would notice and catch Frodo long before he reached the Cracks)...
@@KuK137 I'm sorry, what do you mean "that was when..?"
Middle Earth doesn't exist. It's never existed. It's a fantasy world. It's made up.
You do realise that, right?
Also, in Tolkien's words "man" was a distinct race separate from elves, dwarves and so on. It's why there's frequent references to "the age of Man," "the corruption of Men," "Men of the West," etc.
Within the race of Men were Women, distinct from men but part of Men. Hence Eowyn and Pippin (one a woman, so technically a "Man", but not a "man," and one a Hobbit, so not a Man at all, despite being male) being able to fulfill the prophecy about the Witch King.
@KuK137 I get all that, however, prophecy is notoriously tricksy and false, I just really like the idea of the WC rolling through life thinking he's got this in the bag, and then gets hit by lightning while he's flying (metal crown/ helmet after all) and his last thoughts are, oh so that's why glorfindel was sniggering when he made the profecy. Prophecy coming true but in comically tragic misunderstanding and false confidence is kinda profecys whole jam 😁
@KuK137 also, while what you say is mostly true, there is at least one example of a non human, non male, very powerful, who presumably could have killed the WC regardless of how the prophecy was intended. Galadriel. She would also presumably be one of the ppl most likely to know the history of the barrow downs, and know about anti WC weapons, having been around for all of it
The Witch King's demise didn't trigger a full scale rout of Sauron's forces, the lieutenant Gothmog took charge and brought more forces up the road from Osgiliath. And while the initial charge of the Rohirrim had gone quite well, the war elephants of the Haradrim served as rally points for Mordor's troops.* Had Aragorn and the soldiers from Anfalas and Belfalas not shown up when they did, Minas Tirith may still have been lost. Even after that, many contingents of Sauron's army still fought to the last. A messy, brutal, slaughter.
*It's a testament that JRRT knew enough about ancient and medieval warfare to know that horses are terrified of elephants and won't approach them (unless they've been trained for it). Something that the movies spectacularly failed to show.
The Battle of the Pelennor fields was essentially pyrrhic victory. They didn't have the strength left for another such battle.
Tolkien's understanding of every aspect of the story and world he made and was emulating was greater than that of Jackson and company.
@@Welverin well no shit sherlock.
@@Welverin So very true. I loved the movies, I have seen them multiple times... But. It broke my heart when they kept cutting others virtue in the dark times. Faramir was a worthy man of the west. Knowing, he let them go. Tom Bombadil was above it, but helped them twice. Plus a puzzle about who is this guy. More than a Maiar? Was he even from there? We all know a book to movie cannot be precise. Time, inner monologs, time, writers favorite material. Just unlucky it hit several of my favorite characters.
The witch king gets some autonomy because he was reshaped and modeled by Sauron after thousands of years of control and domination. The wraiths are almost another extension of the dark lord
Nine Nazgul and Sauron had Nine fingers left.
@@HEAVYDIAPERcool point
I do believe the point is that they are not puppets. Sauron does not control them like remote control tools, drones, or video game characters.
They are capable of thinking and acting on their own, even though they may have no will or desires own and only enact Saurons.
To be honest, I’ve always interpreted his doubt, after Éowyn’s gender reveal, as a compliment to his mind. In most ancient heroic tales with prophecies, great men often fail to even consider the possibility that they might have misunderstood the prophecy. He, on the other hand, immediately goes, "Oh, damn, that could be it." After a brief pause, he seems to think, "After everything I’ve done, am I really going to die because of a stupid wordplay?" And then he flies into a rage.
Obviously, that’s not explicitly in the text, but that’s how I read it. He’s proud, sure. But he’s also clever-clever enough that even in his proudest moment, the moment where centuries of work have finally paid off, he’s still capable of entertaining the notion that he might have missed something important.
His real name was Cliff, and he invented the sauna for it was cold in Angmar. So he wasn´t all bad.
Not bad? Cliff was a gem. Used to pay for the water cooler in the office out of his own pocket. Didn’t need to, but that was Cliff. God I miss that guy.
But the power of the ring drove him mad, right over the cliffs of insanity!
@@chasjetty8729 I forgot about that! Good ol' Cliff!
@@jefffinkbonner9551 No,no,no. You're thinking of Clifford jr. Now he was an ... .Started charging for the saunas and all.
Hail King Cliff 🤴
The moment when Eowyn confronts the Witch King and reveals herself to be a woman is one of the best moments in either the books or the films. I know the films changed many things, and mostly very appropriately so for the change in genre. But that scene in particular is one which the film got very right.
I so love these Perspective deep-dives
What perspective, he mostly just repeated what we already knew from the movies.
As someone who only read the books once, I love these videos not only because they delve deeply into the lore, but because they only serve to highlight my many mis-memories of those books. Honestly, the more things I strongly remember that turned out to be completely false is...kind of thrilling, really. I don't know where it comes from.
So Frodo rode to Rivendell alone? I remembered him being taken by a male elf - potentially Glorfindel - in a section that was similar to the sequence given to Arwen by Peter Jackson.
Feel free to put on your best Alan Partridge voice and say "STOP GETTING TOLKEIN WRONG!"
GOAT Tolkein UA-camr
Actual
Robert you are an absolute treasure. Your narration of these stories are absolutely priceless, im really astounded by your work. Completely mesmerized by everything you put out. Salute to the finest in this genre.
Sounds like the Witch King did everything right in his campaign against Gondor, simply every single variable went against him. Don’t forget he left a force screening Rohan’s route only for a group of natives to show Rohan secret routes. It is not unfortunate that he amassed a force to overwhelm Gondor, broke the will of the Steward, brought together the tools to smash the gate. It is unfortunate for him that a wizard was present, the king defeated his diversion plan with an army of the dead, and he was stabbed in the heel with a magic blade.
The witch king at Mina’s morgul was not aware he was sensing a ring bearer and he did not specifically use magic to get a ring bearer to put a ring on. If either had been the case he would never have rode off.
Instead he had a vague sense of being watched and stretched out with his evil spirit of fear to try to out a potential spy. This happened to affect Frodo but is not at all a sign the witch king knew the nature of the enemy he sensed.
One thing I'll say about Peter Jackson's films, the horses the Nazgul rode were absolutely terrifying. Far more so than the fell beasts they flew on. I suppose it's because a horse us something we have IRL and they were made monstrous. It's familiarity, but twisted and darkened.
Horses can also be quite terrifying animals up close when they want to be, but you never really get that side of them in most films. Jackson did a fantastic job of conveying that, and you're right, warped them into a darkened creature, familiar yet unfamiliar.
He was struck down by 2 people who were not men. I'm not sure if Eowyn could have struck him if he had not stumbled forward after Merry's stroke. Not to take anything away from our heroine.
100% Eowyn was the main driver and her courage was immense, but without Merry stabbing him with the Barrow Blade he wouldn’t have died. It made him vulnerable due to the magic it was forged with. It honestly annoys me that they weren’t both celebrated like Sam and Frodo were on the Field of Cormallen.
No other blade, though mightier hands had wielded it, would have delt the foe a wound so bitter cleaving the undead flesh.
Eowyn standing up to the Witch King gave Merry the courage and opportunity to deal the killing blow; but the strike she landed herself had no effect on the Witch King - the sword she used, being non-magical, exploded on contact given her a terrible wound. It is a bitter irony that her bravery alone set the stage for his downfall, but she did not know that, and in her righteous furry she did what she thought needed doing. It is the fog of war that makes you ack on the best understanding of the situation at hand. Neither Eowyn nor Merry knew that their combined actions would defeat the chief of the Nazgûl, but they both knew that they had to try.
I like to think Gandalf could have slain the Witch-King as well, as he definitely was not a man. Extra power or not, the Lord of the Nazgul wasn't as strong as a balrog, which Gandalf had finished when he was the Grey Wizard. Gandalf said after the battle of Pelennor that only Sauron was stronger than he. Had the Witch-King stayed at the gate to the city, Gandalf clearly would have destroyed him.
@rikk319 Agreed. In the Silmarillion, Tolkien says that the gender of the Valar was a matter of choice and appearance. It was probably the same for the Maiar.
Gollum: "Shire! Baggins!"
Sauron: "What is a Shire?"
well, "Hobbits! Shire! Baggins!" But yeah. For me one of the things that really falls apart is that all these cats are supposed to be psychic, have all these magic items, and yet can't even find this entire nation. Was there some such group that was unknown in say the 1300's in Europe, the size of the Shire but somehow unknown to ANYBODY?
@@lqr824 In the context of medieval Europe, sure that wouldn't make any sense. The rival and even enemy kingdoms in medieval Europe were still in FAR more communication than Sauron's forces were with basically every kingdom West of them. European medieval kingdoms all shared a religion, for most of the period a Church, extremely extensive trade networks, and an extremely complex series of legal systems and networks through their royal families and legal frameworks and that meant communication with one another was always going to be relevant and necessary. Nothing of the sort was shared between Sauron and any kingdom of the West. Though Sauron wasn't always warring with the kingdoms of Men, Elves, Dwarves, etc, they seemed to have remained perma-enemies and never once trusted each other or even traded, really. Sauron probably didn't even know what a hobbit was, and the hobbits that settled the Shire originally came there because they were fleeing orcs that had raised their homeland. So they settled the Shire for the very purpose of hiding from Sauron's forces. It actually seems most likely that Sauron himself didn't at first know what any of those three words were supposed to mean, they probably just sounded like three random non sequiturs. Kind of tragically fits Golum's character that even after tortured for information, he doesn't provide anything that is apparently meaningful.
14:08 Yes please!
The Witch-king of Angmar has always been 1 of the most intriguing characters in all of Tolkien's work. So much mystery surrounding him. I very much enjoyed this video! Would love if you did a similar dive into the Witch-king's story. Starting back when he was corrupted by Sauron, through to his deeds up to the 3rd age.
I have technical questions.
- If a cloak make them visible does that means that all clothes do ? And therefore were they scouting naked across the Middle-Earth ?
- If the art are correct and they do were full plate armors, how do the armor-smiths of Mordor make them fit as all proper plate armors should ? Do they go through a process of trial and error or do the nazgul have a kind of medical file somewhere with their mensurations ?
You're asking the right questions.
I think a few months of trial and error and making an extensive file sounds spot on honestly
The Nazgul were more like evil spirits most of the time. I think it's less a question of clothes so much as that appearance of clothing means that they're sort of 'manifesting' into the world.
And I'd say given their master, there's a decent chance that Sauron himself made their plate. Or at least knew them well enough that it wasn't a question of sizing so much as conceptual linkage. The ghosts of armour for the ghosts of men.
Either way, LotR for the most part doesn't give a shit about details like that. The story's never about technical grit.
I imagine their armors were made when they more resembled men of flesh and blood, having been worn for hundreds of years, with the rust and decay of the metal only adding to the Nazgul's look of dread and terror. The Nazgul were immensely powerful, and so their armor would rarely be struck by any sword, meaning repairs would be far in between.
Def one of the best tolkien channels out and a song of ice and fire!
Ive been watching your vids for years and i never took the time to tell you how much i love them 🥰 thanks for making such great stuff, it really brightens my day every time i watch one.
14:58 "....a form of prophetic armor..." ...So the last few seconds of his life, or 'un-life'..." So much good writing here, so well expressed and engaging; excellent storytelling, and like reading the books themselves, a great pleasure for the listener. Incidentally, the Witch-king's confrontation with Gandalf is my favorite scene in the books (and consequently, my least favorite scene in the films).
sweet! this is my favorite video series that you make. it's such a nice way to hear the story retold!
When the Witch King sensed the Ring outside Minas Morgul he was bamboozled because of where he was. He assumed after a short while the pull of the Ring was a general portent regarding his quest, and not that the Ring was close by.
17:07 "...he realized how wrong he has been..." but he never showed any sign of being sorry for the evil he had done, and this condemned him for eternity.
Thanks for this video. This is one of the best Tolken related videos I have ever seen. Absolutely fascinating.
I love these "from ___'s perspective" videos! They're a wonderful paradigm through which to consider the legendarium from. Some of my favorite videos about Middle Earth!
Plato be damned. I still think that having a witch-king as ruler would be far superior to a measly philosopher-king.
Proper Orc, ain't cha??? 😮. 🤓😎✌🏼
Make Middle Earth Great Again.😁
@@Mr_Timi1 Trump just like the Witch King is controlled by a stronger entity that dwells in the shadows.
Hey Robert I’ve been a member of your channel for a while now and have to say what a fantastic story teller you are and can always get all the details and break them down! Your channel is awesome brother!!! ❤
It strikes me that the voice never being heard again in that age of the world is a lot less impressive when you consider that the Fourth Age was only ten days away (by Gondorian reckoning), or, at the most, within three years (by Hobbit reckoning).
can you explain further?
@@lqr824 Yes, I can. Which bit do you want to have explained?
@@rmsgrey why did the Fourth Age begin and what does that mean? Why is time reckoned differently?
@@lqr824 In Tolkien's works, there's a new Age whenever there's a significant world-changing event - the First Age began with the first sunrise; the change from First to Second Ages came when Morgoth was defeated and cast out of the world; the transition from Second to Third Age is generally reckoned to come, not with the Downfall of Numenor and Changing of the World, but instead with the defeat of Sauron by the Last Alliance.
The final defeat of Sauron, the end of the power of the Rings, and the passing of the Elves (and Ringbearers) into the West is the collection of changes that mark the transition between Third and Fourth Ages. Depending which date you pick, the Third Age could have ended with the destruction of the One Ring, or could have continued until the departure of the Ringbearers a couple of years later.
The difference of opinion between Gondorian calendars and those of the Hobbits in the Shire were helped by the Hobbits' Shire Reckoning counting years from the official founding of the Shire, and not resetting the count for the new Age, so there's always going to be a conversion between the two calendars anyway.
@@lqr824They had different calendar systems (just as different irl cultures have had different calendar systems at the same time).
I don’t know why the end of the age was counted differently between them though.
I still don’t understand why the witch king thought stabbing Frodo was enough, the good guys had Frodo with them healing him and even if he faded I imagine one of the good guys like sam would have taken it before he passed into shadow, the only way I can think it would have been a victory is if Frodo joined them and told them the plan to destroy the ring
Hobbits, or at least many of them, are unusually resistant to the effects of a Morgul blade. I think it was Gandalf (or possibly Aragorn) who later told Frodo that even very mighty Men would have succumbed to the wound Frodo got. Also, the fight where Frodo was stabbed was at Weathertop and occurred well before the plan to destroy the One Ring was made.
If I recall correctly, the poison in Frodo usually brought its target low within a few days at most. But this sturdy hobbit held out a couple of weeks. Witch King wasn't expecting them to get so close to Rivendell, and certainly didn't expect Glorfindel to show up.
I also don't think he knew about the enchanted swords that could affect wraiths. Probably wouldn't have gone for the slow burn approach if he did. He probably figured that Frodo as a wraith could easily kill his companions, and without those swords, he might've been right.
Seriously one of my favorite channels. I'm SO happy you released this video today... I need it haha
very happy and grateful your still uploading , huge fan here thank you !
bruh your videos are top notch. ive probably seen over a 100 of them. thanx for your hard work!
Robert, you’ve got the most relaxing voice in the world.
Gandalf and Shadowfax facing the Witch King at the gates is my favourite passage from anything ever. The first time I read it - and still - I got chills. Such powerful imagery.
What puzzles me is: Why didn't he know or at least make an educated guess where the Shire was? The Hobbits had been in Arthedain for more than 300 year before Fornost fell. And they didn't sneak in; they were officially recognized and given (very good) land by Aragorn's ancestors. And Hobbits stand out in that they look very different than all other men.
So, he knew Gollum (particularly, his size) and he found out that the Stoors no longer settled in their Hobbit holes near the Anduin.
Why didn't he at that point connect the dots and rode directly towards the Shire/ the settlements he must have known were in Arthedain?
There was a joke that the Nazgûl mistook who Bilbo was based on what they could peace together. A great burgled that travel to steal from the greatest dragon alive, stole the greatest treasure in its hoard, survived a battle of 5 armies without a scratch, was awarded 1/13 of the largest treasure ever known. He used a sword of ancient elven design, and worse armor made of the rates metal In The world. and lastly he has the One Ring.
It most likely very confused the Nazgûl and the witch king as to where the ring was actually hiding as all their beliefs didn’t really account for some one with all of that leaving the ring to their nephew and have it lying around unguarded .
@@SpottedHares Yeah, after hearing that story I wouldn‘t be surprised if Sauron unconsciously dismissed rumors about some incredibly weak, peaceful creatures living far of from his current objectives. They must have flown under his radar since they are absolutely uninteresting to him compared to pretty much everyone else in middle earth.
He sat his eyes upon the mighty and the story of the master thief seemed to support that approach.
Hobbits are a fairly reclusive bunch. They keep to themselves a great deal and prior to the events of The Hobbit really hadn't shown up in the histories of the world. In all likelihood, neither Sauron or the Witch King had ever encountered a Hobbit or at least didn't pay them any mind if either crossed paths with one.
he had a LOT on his mind - and he wasn't paid to think, was he? 🙃
The Shire wasn't necessarily named that while the Witch-king was still in the area.
Place names take a while to develop; sometimes they are changed over centuries,
and that becomes still more likely over millennia.
News travels fastest in dense populations; the entire north-west of Middle-Earth
had been relatively empty for quite a while after Angmar finished off the last of the kings.
It is logically to be presumed that there simply wasn't a continuous chain of open communication
all the way from Bree to Gondor. Gandalf seemed to say as much in different words.
Ohhhhh this is the video that I didn't know I needed but i soooooo needed. Thank you, Robert!
Your voice makes me happy at night time 😊
Easy mate, this is a family friendly channel 😅
I would love to learn more about the knife breaking the magical protection.
I just love how you know these worlds of fantasy and know how to talk about them. I wished one day you’d make a video about my books as well. In a far future perhaps, but one day.
Always loved “In Deep Geek”. One question though, what ever happened to the travel guide videos you used to make? The one where you give a narrative of a city as if you were a traveler in the world experiencing themself? I loved those and can’t find them!
“Highway to the Danger Zone! Gonna take it right into the Danger Zone!”
-The Witch King of Angmar atop a fell beast
It's just so funny to me that after that wave near Rivendel, eight Nazguls had to hike back at least some distance to Mordor
Excellently narrated!
Pride before the fall indeed! Such a parallel to real life and spiritual villains, no doubt Sir Tolkien was influenced by what he witnessed in WWI and by his Catholic faith.
One of the great things missing from the movies was little Frodo, sick and weak, defying the 9 at the Ford of Bruinen.
Hey Robert, this is Richard :) thanks for showing me the beauty of Tolkien’s universe.
to be honest his expansion pack in BFME2 was pretty good
I would have loved to have seen more of how Mordor runs in the movies. Sauron and the relationships with his lieutenants, Orc ranks and tribes (fighting pits) etc. would have been the perfect opportunity to venture more into Mordor in the lands of Nurn or even Rhun to the east. The trilogy was perfect in its own right, but we could have seen more.
I'm obsessed with the question of: what did they EAT? Dwarves underground, elves and men in cities, orcs in camps, balrogs, watchers, giant spiders, dragons, fell beasts. Armies are basically questions not of arms but of logisitics. Whither the leather, the steel, the bread?
Another great video, thanks Robert. I love your voice, poetic narration, and appreciate your knowledge. I don't usually write comments, but recently many LOTR themed YT channels popped up on my flow. Many of them use AI images... as an artist I support your attitude about the images you use. Cheers.
Loves this channel.
Loves the demise of the villains in this story -- so delicious.
Rues the demise of the heroes -- so tragic and beautiful.
Such a wonderful piece of art.
Good video on the witch king's travels and such. I would like to see a video about the Lord of the Rings from Denethor, Steward of Gondor perspective.
When Frodo felt the urge to put on the Ring outside Minas Morgul, as with every other time, it is *The Ring* urging him. It is always the Ring.
Excellent video.
Just this morning, I was catching up on the LOTR playlist!
Love the poetic and philosophical elements, and how Tolkien masterfully played with archetypes.
As always!!! Terrific content!!!! Thanks In Deep Geek!!!
Ahhh REAL Tolkien lore. Thank you. 🙏🏻
The Peter Jackson films influences fan art so much, that the character's appearance feels like cannon. It would be fun to go back and only look at pre Peter Jackson art of The Lord of the Rings. Was there a consensus of how Frodo looked, or Galadriel? Do you have a pre Peter Jackson artist?
Tolkien drew an image of Bilbo in his entry hall, smoking a pipe.
On the wall is a pendulum clock (!) --- but Not a cuckoo.
In The Hobbit Gandalf chides Bilbo for not dusting under the clock on the mantel in the parlour.
Tolkien had a bit of a tendency to include such anachronistic but charming details.
Yes, and unfortunately this has entrenched misconceptions such as Sauron being a flaming eye on top of Barad Dur, which is entirely Peter Jackson's invention. Sauron is depicted like that in every piece of art or media these days. People don't go back to the source material any more, so all of Peter Jackson's deviations from the books have become some sort of canon.
@aber416373 Check out Alan Lee and John Howe's work. They were publishing LotR inspired art long before their work was incorporated into the films.
And Aragorn was more 'foul than fair'....
My interpretation was not that the Witch King was trying to will Frodo into putting on the ring in the Morgul Vale, but rather, the Ring was trying to overpower Frodo's will to put it on because it knew it was so close. Just like it convinced him to put it on while at Weather Top.
The ring, after all, had a will of its own. Even the Ring Wraiths spoke to it at the Ford of Rivendell.
'Come back! Come back!’ they called. ‘To Mordor we will take you!'
Thanks for all the content, Robert.
I always thought him an obedient servant.
Never as a faithful general that was capable of independent thought and ambition.
Your presentation of his plans, ambition, dedication, and pride really put this character into new perspective.
I'm still waiting for LOTR from the perspective of that fish that golem ate in Return of the King.
Thank you. I love these videos. Thank you! ❤️👍🏻
The Lord of the Rings from the Witch-king's perspective: 6:23
Hi Robert, this is Robert
I would really love a video game set in the 2nd Age where you play as one of the nine men chosen by Sauron to bear his rings of power
Please do the story arc of Merry and Eowyn. They were left behind, but made all the difference....
What book is the Wormtongue/Witch King encounter described in?
Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth
Really enjoyed this video. I hope to check out more. Thank you!
Keep it up great work ! Here are some suggestions :
Why cutting the ring off defeated Sauron in battle of Dagorlad ?
What was the exact plan of Saruman ?
What do we know of Gobblintown ?
This like the Sauron perspective video gives us a really fresh perspective
Everytime i watch one of these videos i jusy think how lucky are we to have this absolutely fantastic story, it really is incredible
The Nazgul of Sauron, I mean how fricking cool would that be as a series
They don't talk a lot, most of their conversations are probably telepathic or non-verbal. They have personalities but are completely dominated by the will of Sauron. I am not sure you could do a lot with a set of characters like that.
@@christianriddler5063 Disagree, the story how they turned from men into the Nazgul, kings with a thirst for power and greed. How they turned their kingdoms into ash, and lost their souls to the magic of the rings! Working up from men, then like gollum show how they fell.
Not like Amazon would make it though 🤣🤣
Can you do a video of how and why the movies differed from the books?
It would need to be a whole series, but I would love to see Robert's take on that as well.
The main reason why is simply because movies are an audio-visual medium, and books are just text. You can't stop the plot in a movie to explain how a character is feeling or what they're thinking, like you can with a book. Some things can be explained easily with text, but would require cumbersome exposition in a movie format, which is probably the cause for a few lost characters. Movies have stricter rules on pacing and length. There simply isn't enough time to get it all in.
That would be a terribly dull series.
@@tTaseric yeah, sometimes you'd need to have entire scenes filmed for events that characters describe, like was done with the Balrog fight in the Two Towers, and even then half of Gandalf's account of that event as is in the book was left out from th movie because it would be too long as you said.
I suppose in books you can get away with long exposition like this because the rest of text is descriptions of environments, actions and feelings which already slow things down. another example is how Aragorn found and captured Gollum and it's only a paragraph in the books, but never mentioned in the movies and instead that part of the story is getting an entire movie on its own
The movies also added stuff not in the books, though, and expanded battle scenes greatly. That to me argues that lack of time was not actually their motivation to cut things.
Very nice topic ^^
Always love the perspective Videos
You, Robert, are a great writer.
In the Pellenor Fields, when Eowyn and Merry dispatched the Witch King, what happened to his ring? Did it dissolve along with the Nazgûl who wielded it? Was it also affected by the ancient blade that Merry wielded? Or did it remain intact, and was left lying there on the field for any scavenger to pick up?
Best looking outfit and helmuts. Cool swords. 😊
Man this sounds like the 'Black Belt Barrister's' voice on this video's voiceover/narration... Great episode thanks.
I think it can be argued that the resolve of the evil armies is not so much of a real thing that can be broken by the death of one like the Witch King. Rather, the will of the Witch King holds them in line with fear. Once that is gone, they break free to flee. They are ruled by fear, and if when the fear of the enemy outweighs the fear of their leader, they crumble.
It is similar to Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire books. He introduced the idea that the Imperial Navy was being directly influenced by the Force powers of the Emperor. When he died, they fell into disarray because no longer was there a single will driving them. Thus, they were routed by the smaller and less equipped Rebel forces. Certainly, the magic of the Witch King would have held the army together at the Pelennor Fields.
I've probably missed something fundamental, but if, under torture, the only words that Gollum uttered were "Baggins" and "Shire", how did Sauron know initially that Baggins was a person (hobbit) and Shire was a place in order for him to despatch the Nazgul on their search mission?
I think Gollum gave it all up. Remember Gandalf could tell what happened to and what Frodo had been thinking while he was asleep. He read Frodo's mind, so Sauron could probably do something similar to Gollum. If so, why torture him? It's fun and it was a day that ended with a "Y", which was the only reason he needed.
I just watched your Cirdan video before this and it is interesting to contrast the difference between two for whom Foresight had revealed their future. Cirdan became a hero and sacrificed everything before he could attain Valinor, while the Witch King was still ruled by fear and selfishness (no doubt those were the seeds of accepting his ring from the onset).
Side note- I was thinking of Caddy Shack and the "I've been told that I'll see Valinor in my lifetime, so I've got that going for me" vibes :)
As soon as it got to the part on the bridge I was thinking “fuck yeah Glorfindel, what a fucking BADASS!”
One of your best videos!
Love this stuff its amazing. Can listen for hours!!
Good video¡ I wish Tolkien would reveal more about these
this is my most looked forward to vid yet