fun fact! Gwendy (the amazing Gwendy) said that actually Anniflamma and Mircsy was told to tone down their animatics in Hold Them Down because their first drafts was much much more graphic. and later she also said she herself had to tone down the violence in Odysseus
@@AirierGwendy wanted to use a rope noose on one suitor and Odysseus stepping over a dead body originally. She had to cut those out because Jorge said he didn’t want it that violent.
@@lukasuhlenkamp9850 we are going to get animatic from Duvetbox soon, and they said it will be a bloodbath too soo.... I think we will see a lot of brutally murdered suitors in the months to come.
I hope Mr Jalepeno sees this. This is the first time I've seen anyone besides myself acknowledge that Odysseus is NOT A RELIABLE NARRATOR WHEN IT COMES TO HIMSELF. He is traumatized and has lost all faith in himself, has PTSD FROM ACTUAL LITERAL HADES THE PLACE and had to be REMINDED that he was a man and not a monster. Thank you so much.
Penelope's challenge is actually much more cunning than initially appears. Its commonly thought that Odysseus used a recurve bow, which would have been a really rare style in greece at that time. Recurve bows have a special way of stringing them that would not be known to the suitors, so in reality they have 3 challenges in one: Have the strength to string the bow, the intelligence to figure out the technique, and the skill to shoot it through the axes. If the suitor didn't have all 3, then he wasn't even worth consideration. Alas, I think that when Odysseus killed Antinous, he actually completed the challenge, stringing his bow and shooting Antinous through the axe heads, essentially dunking on the suiters and punishing them at the same time.
22:56 how much empathy this man has to think how his son suffered. Dude just went through twenty years of torture but all he can think about right now is how his absence effected his son. That’s love right there.
I don’t know if anyone mentioned this too you but the final animatic is Gigi, and I saw a post talking about how Gigi is 90% of epic fans first animatic and is the final one that you see
With Calypso, there's a line Odysseus says along the lines of "You don't know what I've been through". He never told her a single thing about himself because where Calypso saw him as her one true love, he saw her nothing more than his captor. With Penelope, he wastes no time telling her everything he's been through and confessing everything he's done to get home. It shows just how much he loves his wife to be upfront about the truth or sugarcoat anything he's done in the past 20 years. And Penelope doesn't let that falter or change her mind on her husband. No matter what, he's still the love of her life and there's nothing he can say or do to change that. Also another fun detail: Penelope did something in this entire musical no one else've done: Win an argument with Odysseus through words and wit. Any other kind of "win" others have had with Odysseus was through violence and intimidation. Here, she proves he's still the same man she fell for by issuing one final test: move their symbol of their love rooted in the earth. In the original epic, it was a test to prove to her he's really the man he claims to be. Here, it's to show to him that he's still her husband even after decades of arduous trials.
To add to this calypso waves him off when he says this telling him to go back to bed. Penelope asks him what he did, calypso doesn’t care about what Odysseus has gone though where Penelope does
7:55 - "Throw him down into tiny pieces" - In Greek mythos, the body was the harbor of the soul. So, when he says he's going to cut him down into tiny pieces, he is effectively saying "Let's cut his soul into tiny pieces so it never reaches the Underworld." This ties into the line "When the CROWN wonders where the Prince is-" - Odysseus is presumed dead by the suitors at this point. So, both him and Penelope would wonder where their son is, as he would be a lost and fragmented soul in the ocean never going home, and never finding peace.
14:38 "What do you mean old king?" THANK YOU!! You are legit the first reactor to point out that even begging for mercy, Eurymachus STILL insults Odysseus!
When Penelope is singing "Waiting" to Odysseus, there are 7 waitings. One waiting for each saga he was away from home, and it lasts 20 seconds, each second representing a year he was gone.
@@berri-g2gI’m not sure if vengeance counts, cuz at the end of Charybdis and onward we know Odysseus is itchingly close to Ithaca, only there was a slight problem in the way at first.
A horrifying fact for hold them down, to cut up someone was to tear apart their soul, and to toss them in the ocean was to have their soul for ever wander and be lost where they cannot rejoin even in the underworld so he's literally saying that nobody will ever know what happened to him
The line in The Challenge about dying instead growing old without the best of them is important because in some retellings of the Odyssey, Penelope sits/stands at the end of the line of axes so that if anyone is successful in shooting through the axes, they’ll win the challenge but kill her in the process
OHHH MY GOSH HOW VALIDATED I FEEL RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THAT WAS EXACTLY HOW I IMAGINED IT IN THE SONG BUT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT WAS TRUE IN ONE VERSION WOW Sorry I just got all excited. That’s both badass of Penelope but also really tragic.
Hi there, I’ve studied the Odyssey back to front and don’t recall this in any version I’ve read. Could you please provide the name/s of these versions, or at least the passage, you’ve seen with this moment? I only ask since it is, in the text, Telemachus who takes the first crack at it, and I don’t think it’s make sense even at the time for Penelope to make her own son responsible for his death. My aim isn’t to antagonise or troll, I’d just like to confirm, you know how it is.
@@frogwithhumanteeth7808 Personally I've only seen that version mentioned in the comments of the reaction videos or in "The challenge" animatics, but I can't find it in the original Odyssey, Probably in one of the later adaptations? Maybe in some movie or something like that? That or someone made it up.
@ I think maybe if it’s in the comments of videos, maybe some fans interpreted the lyric as literal rather than what I assume to be the metaphorical expression of Penelope’s longing for Odysseus. It is also entirely possible that it could be in a later adaption, but I personally wouldn’t take it as gospel until you’ve confirmed it. No stress, thanks for the quick response. Have a great day/night
The last two songs absolutely BROKE me! This has been such a wild ride and I'm glad I could do it with you! If you can, everyone buy the sweatshirt!!!!!
Hopefully i can afford the sweatshirt this week. It’s not the sweatshirt that’s expensive for me, but the shipping to Australia. 😭 so i’m making it worth it by getting more stuff from the store. 😝
all the animatics that flash behind odysseus in WYFILWMA are all of the animatics jorge commissioned for the livestream! also when jorge and mico hug during ICHBW>>>
I loved watching your journy with EPIC ever since your first video! I think its mainly cause you were one of the few reactors that new the story somewhat well enough beforehand and a geek with greek mythology, and you're not overly trying to be funny all the time, just appreciating the content as it is. Sad it had to end, but im glad it happened
“Left a trail of red on every island” > 31:10 Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves “As I traded friends like objects I could use” > 31:16 Thunder Bringer
I honestly really hope it becomes a stage play, but I really don't want it to be on Broadway. That would mean Jorge probably wouldn't have any control over the musical anymore, and that would give whoever buys it the rights to cut, change, and do whatever they want with the songs. And I JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT 😭And it would also mean we definitely wouldn't have the same voices/actors playing the characters. I can get over that easier, but this cast is just toooooo iconic to beat lol. Would still love if EPIC the musical was open to becoming a stage play of some sorts though!
Also a random thing I noticed is that a lot of people are saying "oh why didn't Odysseus reference Ruthlessness in Odysseus?""" Well here's my guess: Odysseus does not give a rat's ass about Poseidon anymore. When he's suffered as much as he has, killed and seen more shit in 20 yrs than most people do in their lives, it's pretty easy to become numb to things that would've affected you greatly in the past. So basically what I'm trying to say is that Odysseus has become numb to the idea of "ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves", and doesn't care anymore. He's already the monster, so why would he need to take Poseidon's catchphrase when he can just show it through actions (killing all the suitors).
Fun fact, some songs in the series follow a title scheme particularly those songs involving monsters. Every song that is about a monster is titled that monsters name. Polyphemus Scylla Chardybis Odysseus
Here are all the callbacks I’ve managed to catch in Odysseus: 10:48 Beginning is like Monster 11:30 Danger Motif 12:21 Odysseus guitar riff 12:22 Choir sings Odysseus like Polyphemus 12:42 The suitors = Survive (music wise not the same, but vibe wise) 13:04 Choir sings second Odysseus in danger motif like the end of Mutiny before Zeus arrives 13:14 “Where is he”: Legendary 13:17 “Keep your head down he’s aiming for the torches” = “My real wife knows I’m not scared of the water” music callback to Different Beast 13:17 The torches: Scylla 14:18 Suitor asking forgiveness and mercy like Ody in Ruthlessness 14:41 Open Arms callback 14:44 “No” = Get in the Water, after Ody asks Poseidon for forgiveness one last time 15:58 Quick thought: Athena 16:02 Legendary Warrior of the Mind 16:56 Where is he 17:05 Hold him down 17:2517:56 *shing* The same sound when Poseidon summoned his Cthulhu thing in Get In the Water livestream 18:02 Choir last rendition of Odysseus: No Longer You 19:23 Final beat drop: End of Monster It has also been confirmed that the depiction of the red eyes is because Ody is the Monster. It has nothing to do with Ares.
A fun detail is that you can hear the Quick Thought ability going off constantly during Telemachus' fight against the suitors. Athena was constantly using it to give him time to plan how he's gonna move next.
7:25, so you had it half correct. When ody leaves the island in the og oddysey, athena goes and tells Telemachus to travel to sparta to ask for news of is father, learning to become a better man as he does this. Then, when he returns home, athena warns him of the ambush the suitors planned for him so he skirts by them and meets with his (disguised) father and one of the royal farmers who are letting Ody stay because no one recognizes him due to athena's magical guise she placed on him.
A couple interesting mythology facts about the bow and why no one succeeded. First it was a recurve bow which was unknown to them and almost impossible to string, second in many iterations it was enchanted by Athena so that only odysseus's family could do it, and least known in some iterations it was also the bow of Heracles which goes to show the sheer strength behind the bow that someone like him was able to use it
13:22 yes. He locked them in his home He is in full control like a puppeteer He goes for the torches He is ruthlessness ( edit: idk why i wrote merciless)
It's not really true that all the suitors were those that were either too young or too old to go to Troy. There were plenty of people that didn't have to go there. Especially the nobles and the workers, and suitors were mostly from the noble families of Odysseus's kingdom. Likely in the age range of 20-45. One of them, Eurynomus, was even the brother of one of Ody's crewmen that died in Polyphemus's cave.
Also I just realized, that Odysseus holding the suitor's head is supposed to mimic him holding the infant to let it fall to die. HOW STARK THE DIFFERENCE IS!!
Totally feel you on that Athena moment being super impactful, it’s the fact that their character arcs essentially swapped. I love that the message of EPIC isn’t as simple as ruthlessness > mercy, and that Athena takes it upon herself to make a merciful world when Ody sees himself as too far gone and too tired to keep on that way. It’s tragic but I’m glad they ended on good terms
Thing I noticed after so many times I've listened to this saga, Hold them down and Odyseus. Ody thought about the other "monsters" before asking if what they did was wrong or not -Circe revealed the true form of people, much as Ody saw during Hold them down, pigs with no worth -The motif used for Odyseus is of his first monster they met, Polyphemus -Ody aimed at the torches as we learned with Scylla eating the soldiers who had torches -This one is not clear to me, when talking/singing about it Ody refers to the god of tides killing them so they must respect him, so the paralel to that on his story may or may not be exactly that, a reminder to the suitors of why he is the king and why he deserves the fear and respect
I don’t know where the idea came from that red eyes mean Ares’ blessing but Jorge has never said that. Jorge has said that the red eyes means Odysseus is being a monster and to symbolize the change he has gone through that why Odysseus’ never change from being red in the Ithaca Saga
I gotta say, I think this is the best saga. Penelope's voice is my absolute favorite in the show, so I loved her having a song all to herself for the most part. Hold them Down is one of the best villain songs we've seen from anyone for a very long time, but then again this musical is like prime Disney. EVERY Villain song is amazing. Odysseus, which I personally should've been called Old King, but Odysseus is still cool, shows how powerful he's become because he has his own background vocals SAYING HIS NAME LIKE POLY IN SURVIVE! I Can't Help But Wonder literally broke me because I've had that, my dad once couldn't see me for ages and when I finally saw him again, it was my graduation day, and he'd been gone for all of high school. And then the last song is fine, it doesn't really do anything for me. Something I LOVE about Anna, Penelope's voice actress, is the subtleties in her voice. As the siren, in the last part of Suffering, you could tell every time she repeated "I can take the suffering from you." She was getting more and more irritated like "Would you just get in the water already?" In Challenge, when she's giving the suitors the bow and presenting the challenge, there's a slight mocking tone, like she's saying "I know it's possible, but not for any of you." Also, Airer, now that THIS musical is over for now, because this is just the concept album, this is just the START, may I suggest Undertale the Musical by MOTI? It's great, tells the story of Undertale well with some minor changes, most of which I love, and the songs just SLAP.
When Odysseus and Athena have their final scene I also think it’s sort of like Odysseus is saying that he’s no longer capable of believing in peace on a grand scale (no longer able to greet the world with open arms), but if it’s possible, he believes Athena could make it happen. Which was just super touching to me.
I don't know how many people actually noticed, but the last animation with 'Would you Fall in Love with Me Again' is actually done by Gigi, the first time we've seen Gigi do a fully colored animation actually for Epic! But for reason there were no credits in the video (maybe someone forgot, or they're somewhere later or earlier that I've missed it) but I noticed not a lot of people knew that it was in fact Gigi.
EPIC had left a hole in my heart. This has been an incredible journey. I joined at the release of the vengeance saga. But since that, this fandom and community has been nothing but amazing!!
So a couple of fun things in this saga. During Odysseus, you did catch him using monstrous tactics of his past encounters. The danger motif is rolling through chanting "O-dy-sse-us" in the same paces as our cyclopian monster "Po-ly-the-mus", while Ody locks the doors to the palace, blocking the exit just as the cyclops had. As you pointed out, he did strike out at the torch bearers in the same manner as Scylla He stripped them of their ability to fight back like Circe by hiding away their weapons and leaving them in the dark He taught them that Ruthlessness as Posiden had taught him And he brought judgement to them for their crimes as Zues had to his crew As for the final song, when Ody begins to recount, you hear the motifs of turning points sneak in behind his words. "Left a trail of red on every island" Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves "Traded friends like objects I could use" Thunderbringer "Hurt more lives then I can count on my hands" I'm not sorry for loving you (I think)
"Athena reunion would have a more emotional impact cause we saw her fight for him more than telemachus or Penelope" as soon as you said that I thought big talk for someone who forgot the next song is THE last song and then also him Penelope making him laugh cry
For the reunion with Athena, I think that he feels he's been away for so long, missed so much, that he was refusing anything that might take any more time from what mattered most. In the end, that better world he had been considering helping build, he'd trade the world to see his son and wife.
I NOTICED SOMETHING AT THE END OF HOLD THEM DOWN BEFORE!!! BEFORE THE ARROW GETS LODGED IN ANTINOUS’S THROAT, THERE IS THE SOUND OF IT BEING SHOT AT HIM!!! ODYSSEUS WAS IN THAT SONG THE WHOLE TIME!!!
I imagine Ares trying to do right by Athena and blessing Odysseus for the fight, except he goofed since he was trying to help bring back the smart war man Athena was proud of and accidentally poured too much liquid rage into the potion he hucked at Odysseus before the fight.
6:45 Wellll....technically the sutiors were of the noble houses. They do have some strenght and fighting prowess. They COULD have gone to Troy, they just didnt want to
Very fun fact: they did this live in ithaca EVEN BETTER IS THAT there was a STOOORRM which delayed things(poseidon and zues really don't want this stream to happen) AND the ferry they were supposed to get one left A MINUTE before they got there so it felt like when they opened the bag ALSO the wifi was very horrible they couldn't do the stream 😂 But they did it like a day or two after Jorge never felt as odysseus as he did that time😂 True odyssey
23:44 jorge and mico(telemachus) hugging just breaks me to pieces and is the cutest thing ever Their reaction to hold them down are just soo real😂 The end broke them like it broke us 😭😭😭
I'd just like to say that as someone who has been with Epic since the Cyclops Saga, that ending was incredibly beautiful. I caught the premiere live and while I didn't cry, I did just for at least an hour and probably much longer just sit there rewatching the last song (And occasionally one or two others) almost tearing up. Finally at the end it just all came out, and while I didn't cry I did hugely tear up. That ending was definitely the most emotional I got about an ending that year (Including Arcane in that statement) and even now (I understand it's less than a month later (Currently it's 22:08 PM 15/01/2025)) and it's still really getting to me. The ending was just so utterly perfect. I've had a few problems with the last few Sagas (Basically all of the other ones in Act 2) especially the Vengeance Saga, but I still have absolutely no problems with The Ithaca Saga at all. I could go on, but this seems like enough for now.
So the whole crew, minus Poseidon's singer due to some health reasons iirc, actually all got together and went to Ithaca for the Livestream. Apparently Miko, Telemachus' singer, did not have a good time getting over there. Apparently his tiktok got banned or something as well, and it was a whole panic for the crew and the fans as well.
16:57 love how before he moves Athena’s quick thought plays like he’s mapping out his strategy and moves before execution truly in sync with Athena Edit that’s his stand name : In Sync lol jkjk
I’ve watched so many reactors and majority of them never recognize Athena’s theme. Every time those reversed notes play most of them are confused by what that might be
You should check out animatics for the cut songs, a lot of the other songs, especially in the Ithaca saga, reference back to them. There were two separate drafts for showing the beginning of Odysseus and Penelope's first meeting, one focusing on Athena "I need her to be mine" where the whole song is a slight revamp of the tune of warrior of the mind, while "Man of the House" has lines that were reused for both the challenge and hold them down with darker meanings.
Some fun fact and a horrible fact, So while the sutors was singing and plotting Odyssey was stringing his old bow and hidding there wepons and deciding to lisen to there plan's. Also, the red eyes are him giving into the monster, just like what the prophet said. I see you take your last breath, He say Posiden kill Ody humanity and made him let out the monster to push a little further not only to defeat Posiden but to do what needed to be done to protect his family. In both instances, you can hear the prophets theme in the mix.
If you listen closely in Hold Them Down, you can hear Ody singing with the Suitors. He was there the whole time and heard all of it. Also Ody isn't the one who left the weapons room unlocked. Telemachus heard all the fighting and went to arm himself, and he was still in there when the group of Suitors showed up. It's why the door wasn't locked. For the part of WYFILWMA where it goes through the flashback of animatics, those are all canon animatics Jorge had commissioned from the other livestreams. Also it's been fuken weeks man, and those last two songs still make me cry every time. As far as what the one person said regarding Jorge not wanting EPIC to be a play, Jorge has said he doesn't want EPIC going on Broadway because he feels they don't have the tech to portray his vision. He DOES want a stage performance, but more something along the lines of Cirque du Soleil, since that sort of thing has the kind of tech he wants for EPIC.
I love how we triggered our cries at the same time because the last two songs are just so beautiful and heartwarming, the happiness of seeing Odysseus finally arrive home to Penelope and Telemachus is just the best feeling.
After everything is over, it’s almost gorgeous how everything has finally come together in the end. And the best part I don’t think you realize, the last animator is GIGI, the very same animator who started everything with her “horse and the infant” and “just a man” animatics. But you most definitely might’ve not recognized it because Gigi had added COLOR to her animation instead of a flat color, she fully colored them because Odysseus is HOME where his life is now completely full of color. Most people started with Gigi, we ended with Gigi.
The few times i came across demos for this saga, I honestly feared for Telemachus knowing Odysseus would be killing the suitors. On a different note: I like to think the Hold them down song, gave Odysseus enough self awareness to control his monster persona, hence my Telemachus safety fear becomes unfounded. 🤔 i wonder though, if it would have been better to animate Telemachus bringing Odysseus out of his monster mode, like how some stories are written where one is in a battle frenzy thay only breaks when the character puts a loved one at sword point, and the non aggressive family member kills the battle frenzy almost immediately. And that would be the que to go into I can't help but wonder [too dramatoc maybe?]
I dont understand why you expected a bad ending? J said that at the Base of everything, EPIC is a Love Story. And the rule is that Love Storys, no matter how tragic, must have a Happy Ending.
You pointed out the RedEyes=AresHelp theories, so I feel the need to point out that these animatics have now firmly debunked them. Of course, I'm also obligated to remind people to take these "canon" animatics with a grain of salt. This is still only a concept album at the end of the day. Plenty can change.
fun fact! Gwendy (the amazing Gwendy) said that actually Anniflamma and Mircsy was told to tone down their animatics in Hold Them Down because their first drafts was much much more graphic. and later she also said she herself had to tone down the violence in Odysseus
... It that's toned down. I'm both curious and terrified to see what the original version would look like. 😮
@@AirierGwendy wanted to use a rope noose on one suitor and Odysseus stepping over a dead body originally. She had to cut those out because Jorge said he didn’t want it that violent.
@@Airier yee, during the beheading, she originally had shown the head rolling on the ground
Totally understand having the livestream animatics not being too shocking, but now I really want a Gwendy cut with nothing held back.
@@lukasuhlenkamp9850 we are going to get animatic from Duvetbox soon, and they said it will be a bloodbath too soo.... I think we will see a lot of brutally murdered suitors in the months to come.
I hope Mr Jalepeno sees this. This is the first time I've seen anyone besides myself acknowledge that Odysseus is NOT A RELIABLE NARRATOR WHEN IT COMES TO HIMSELF. He is traumatized and has lost all faith in himself, has PTSD FROM ACTUAL LITERAL HADES THE PLACE and had to be REMINDED that he was a man and not a monster. Thank you so much.
Penelope's challenge is actually much more cunning than initially appears. Its commonly thought that Odysseus used a recurve bow, which would have been a really rare style in greece at that time. Recurve bows have a special way of stringing them that would not be known to the suitors, so in reality they have 3 challenges in one: Have the strength to string the bow, the intelligence to figure out the technique, and the skill to shoot it through the axes. If the suitor didn't have all 3, then he wasn't even worth consideration.
Alas, I think that when Odysseus killed Antinous, he actually completed the challenge, stringing his bow and shooting Antinous through the axe heads, essentially dunking on the suiters and punishing them at the same time.
A test of strength, guile and patience. All traits of Odysseus.
depends on version, in one he done he challange without killing him but after that he reveal himself, he sacold him and kills him.
I’ve seen this comment 10 times before
22:56 how much empathy this man has to think how his son suffered. Dude just went through twenty years of torture but all he can think about right now is how his absence effected his son. That’s love right there.
Fun fact, they actually did the livestream *from* Ithaca
And had a shit of problems because of bad internet connection and ironically a storm 😂😂😂
@@Cataly_ely posideon wasn't happy he didn't go 😂
I don’t know if anyone mentioned this too you but the final animatic is Gigi, and I saw a post talking about how Gigi is 90% of epic fans first animatic and is the final one that you see
With Calypso, there's a line Odysseus says along the lines of "You don't know what I've been through". He never told her a single thing about himself because where Calypso saw him as her one true love, he saw her nothing more than his captor.
With Penelope, he wastes no time telling her everything he's been through and confessing everything he's done to get home. It shows just how much he loves his wife to be upfront about the truth or sugarcoat anything he's done in the past 20 years. And Penelope doesn't let that falter or change her mind on her husband. No matter what, he's still the love of her life and there's nothing he can say or do to change that.
Also another fun detail: Penelope did something in this entire musical no one else've done: Win an argument with Odysseus through words and wit. Any other kind of "win" others have had with Odysseus was through violence and intimidation. Here, she proves he's still the same man she fell for by issuing one final test: move their symbol of their love rooted in the earth. In the original epic, it was a test to prove to her he's really the man he claims to be. Here, it's to show to him that he's still her husband even after decades of arduous trials.
To add to this calypso waves him off when he says this telling him to go back to bed. Penelope asks him what he did, calypso doesn’t care about what Odysseus has gone though where Penelope does
7:55 - "Throw him down into tiny pieces" - In Greek mythos, the body was the harbor of the soul. So, when he says he's going to cut him down into tiny pieces, he is effectively saying "Let's cut his soul into tiny pieces so it never reaches the Underworld." This ties into the line "When the CROWN wonders where the Prince is-" - Odysseus is presumed dead by the suitors at this point. So, both him and Penelope would wonder where their son is, as he would be a lost and fragmented soul in the ocean never going home, and never finding peace.
Holy moly this makes Antonious look like much more of a terrible person since they won't even let Telemachus go to the afterlife
I am pretty sure "when the crown wonders where the Prince is" they are stating they see Penelope as an object not as person, like she is the crown
14:38 "What do you mean old king?" THANK YOU!! You are legit the first reactor to point out that even begging for mercy, Eurymachus STILL insults Odysseus!
Old king is actually a respectful term in Greek mythos
Ody himself called Menelaus Old King out of respect
When Penelope is singing "Waiting" to Odysseus, there are 7 waitings. One waiting for each saga he was away from home, and it lasts 20 seconds, each second representing a year he was gone.
ody was gone for 8 sagas. troy, cyclops, ocean, circe, underworld, thunder, wisdom, revenge
Number 7 is generally mentioned a lot. The drowning crew calls out 7 times to their Captain
Great man, another reason for me to break down 😢
@@berri-g2gI’m not sure if vengeance counts, cuz at the end of Charybdis and onward we know Odysseus is itchingly close to Ithaca, only there was a slight problem in the way at first.
@@limeshrimp8312And he spent 7 years suffering with Calypso
A horrifying fact for hold them down, to cut up someone was to tear apart their soul, and to toss them in the ocean was to have their soul for ever wander and be lost where they cannot rejoin even in the underworld so he's literally saying that nobody will ever know what happened to him
The line in The Challenge about dying instead growing old without the best of them is important because in some retellings of the Odyssey, Penelope sits/stands at the end of the line of axes so that if anyone is successful in shooting through the axes, they’ll win the challenge but kill her in the process
OHHH MY GOSH HOW VALIDATED I FEEL RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THAT WAS EXACTLY HOW I IMAGINED IT IN THE SONG BUT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT WAS TRUE IN ONE VERSION WOW
Sorry I just got all excited. That’s both badass of Penelope but also really tragic.
Hi there, I’ve studied the Odyssey back to front and don’t recall this in any version I’ve read. Could you please provide the name/s of these versions, or at least the passage, you’ve seen with this moment? I only ask since it is, in the text, Telemachus who takes the first crack at it, and I don’t think it’s make sense even at the time for Penelope to make her own son responsible for his death. My aim isn’t to antagonise or troll, I’d just like to confirm, you know how it is.
@@frogwithhumanteeth7808 Personally I've only seen that version mentioned in the comments of the reaction videos or in "The challenge" animatics, but I can't find it in the original Odyssey, Probably in one of the later adaptations? Maybe in some movie or something like that? That or someone made it up.
@ I think maybe if it’s in the comments of videos, maybe some fans interpreted the lyric as literal rather than what I assume to be the metaphorical expression of Penelope’s longing for Odysseus. It is also entirely possible that it could be in a later adaption, but I personally wouldn’t take it as gospel until you’ve confirmed it. No stress, thanks for the quick response. Have a great day/night
We started with Gigi and we (officially) end with Gigi. Jorge knew how much that means to people
The last two songs absolutely BROKE me! This has been such a wild ride and I'm glad I could do it with you! If you can, everyone buy the sweatshirt!!!!!
👆
What they said. If you can, get the sweatshirt. I picked up a copy because I want to help support everyone involved in this project.
My bestie got me one for my birthday
Hopefully i can afford the sweatshirt this week. It’s not the sweatshirt that’s expensive for me, but the shipping to Australia. 😭 so i’m making it worth it by getting more stuff from the store. 😝
Orange does an AMAZING animatic for Hold them Down because shows Ody getting ready, stealing weapons, locking doors, and stringing the bow.
all the animatics that flash behind odysseus in WYFILWMA are all of the animatics jorge commissioned for the livestream! also when jorge and mico hug during ICHBW>>>
Yea it does look like he got a couple new ones for this live stream too. Either that or my memory of past streams really sucks. 😝
That dark piano Notes was because Athena was injured
And The Telemachus actually messed up the plan because he didn’t know his dad was back initially
The crying and laughing uncontrollably is absolutely relatable. Thank you for this react series, cant wait to have you watch the different animatics.
I loved watching your journy with EPIC ever since your first video! I think its mainly cause you were one of the few reactors that new the story somewhat well enough beforehand and a geek with greek mythology, and you're not overly trying to be funny all the time, just appreciating the content as it is. Sad it had to end, but im glad it happened
“Left a trail of red on every island”
> 31:10 Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves
“As I traded friends like objects I could use”
> 31:16 Thunder Bringer
I wonder what was the third one?
im not sorry for loving you @@alexeysimushov4971
@@alexeysimushov4971 it was “Drown in your sorrows and fears”
Not to mention “Hurt more lives than I can count on my hands” is Scylla
@@alexeysimushov4971 I don recongnize good the lirycs, but is from "mutiny" I´m sure
I honestly really hope it becomes a stage play, but I really don't want it to be on Broadway. That would mean Jorge probably wouldn't have any control over the musical anymore, and that would give whoever buys it the rights to cut, change, and do whatever they want with the songs. And I JUST CAN'T HAVE THAT 😭And it would also mean we definitely wouldn't have the same voices/actors playing the characters. I can get over that easier, but this cast is just toooooo iconic to beat lol.
Would still love if EPIC the musical was open to becoming a stage play of some sorts though!
Also a random thing I noticed is that a lot of people are saying "oh why didn't Odysseus reference Ruthlessness in Odysseus?""" Well here's my guess: Odysseus does not give a rat's ass about Poseidon anymore. When he's suffered as much as he has, killed and seen more shit in 20 yrs than most people do in their lives, it's pretty easy to become numb to things that would've affected you greatly in the past. So basically what I'm trying to say is that Odysseus has become numb to the idea of "ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves", and doesn't care anymore. He's already the monster, so why would he need to take Poseidon's catchphrase when he can just show it through actions (killing all the suitors).
Antinous: when the crown wonders where the prince is only the ocean and I will know!
Poseidon: LEAVE ME OUT OF THIS!!!
Fun fact, some songs in the series follow a title scheme particularly those songs involving monsters. Every song that is about a monster is titled that monsters name. Polyphemus
Scylla
Chardybis
Odysseus
Hera is eating Ambrosia Road Icecream in her peacock jammies, torn between rooting and cheering for them and smiting them out of bitterness.
She’s the goddess of marriage, she is not smiting one of the few examples of absolute Greek loyalty, spiteful or not
As the goddess of marriage, I imagine this is straight up therapeutic for her
Here are all the callbacks I’ve managed to catch in Odysseus:
10:48 Beginning is like Monster
11:30 Danger Motif
12:21 Odysseus guitar riff
12:22 Choir sings Odysseus like Polyphemus
12:42 The suitors = Survive (music wise not the same, but vibe wise)
13:04 Choir sings second Odysseus in danger motif like the end of Mutiny before Zeus arrives
13:14 “Where is he”: Legendary
13:17 “Keep your head down he’s aiming for the torches” = “My real wife knows I’m not scared of the water” music callback to Different Beast
13:17 The torches: Scylla
14:18 Suitor asking forgiveness and mercy like Ody in Ruthlessness
14:41 Open Arms callback
14:44 “No” = Get in the Water, after Ody asks Poseidon for forgiveness one last time
15:58 Quick thought: Athena
16:02 Legendary
Warrior of the Mind
16:56 Where is he
17:05 Hold him down
17:25 17:56 *shing* The same sound when Poseidon summoned his Cthulhu thing in Get In the Water livestream
18:02 Choir last rendition of Odysseus: No Longer You
19:23 Final beat drop: End of Monster
It has also been confirmed that the depiction of the red eyes is because Ody is the Monster. It has nothing to do with Ares.
NICE
A fun detail is that you can hear the Quick Thought ability going off constantly during Telemachus' fight against the suitors. Athena was constantly using it to give him time to plan how he's gonna move next.
I. Have. Never. Clicked. A. Vid. So. Fast.
😁
Just FYI: the Ares helping Odysseus theory is wrong. Jorge said that the red eyes symbolize him being a monster
Great reaction tho
7:25, so you had it half correct. When ody leaves the island in the og oddysey, athena goes and tells Telemachus to travel to sparta to ask for news of is father, learning to become a better man as he does this. Then, when he returns home, athena warns him of the ambush the suitors planned for him so he skirts by them and meets with his (disguised) father and one of the royal farmers who are letting Ody stay because no one recognizes him due to athena's magical guise she placed on him.
A couple interesting mythology facts about the bow and why no one succeeded. First it was a recurve bow which was unknown to them and almost impossible to string, second in many iterations it was enchanted by Athena so that only odysseus's family could do it, and least known in some iterations it was also the bow of Heracles which goes to show the sheer strength behind the bow that someone like him was able to use it
13:22 yes.
He locked them in his home
He is in full control like a puppeteer
He goes for the torches
He is ruthlessness ( edit: idk why i wrote merciless)
*Ruthless
@@DerrickParr thanks :DDD
He also attracted them to one point using the weapon room similar to chrybdis's whirlpool
Circle is absolutely not a monster
Arier laughing at the end would be so good out of context
This has been quite the odyssey, hasn't it? I'm going to miss this series.😢 I'm glad you enjoyed it. You truly are one of us.
a journessy, one could say
It's not really true that all the suitors were those that were either too young or too old to go to Troy. There were plenty of people that didn't have to go there. Especially the nobles and the workers, and suitors were mostly from the noble families of Odysseus's kingdom. Likely in the age range of 20-45. One of them, Eurynomus, was even the brother of one of Ody's crewmen that died in Polyphemus's cave.
Also I just realized, that Odysseus holding the suitor's head is supposed to mimic him holding the infant to let it fall to die. HOW STARK THE DIFFERENCE IS!!
Totally feel you on that Athena moment being super impactful, it’s the fact that their character arcs essentially swapped. I love that the message of EPIC isn’t as simple as ruthlessness > mercy, and that Athena takes it upon herself to make a merciful world when Ody sees himself as too far gone and too tired to keep on that way. It’s tragic but I’m glad they ended on good terms
27:41 If you listen to the piano, you can hear This is My Goodbye from My Goodbye in the Cyclops saga. Literally cried
Thanks for giving me a reason to cry today
Thing I noticed after so many times I've listened to this saga, Hold them down and Odyseus. Ody thought about the other "monsters" before asking if what they did was wrong or not
-Circe revealed the true form of people, much as Ody saw during Hold them down, pigs with no worth
-The motif used for Odyseus is of his first monster they met, Polyphemus
-Ody aimed at the torches as we learned with Scylla eating the soldiers who had torches
-This one is not clear to me, when talking/singing about it Ody refers to the god of tides killing them so they must respect him, so the paralel to that on his story may or may not be exactly that, a reminder to the suitors of why he is the king and why he deserves the fear and respect
I don’t know where the idea came from that red eyes mean Ares’ blessing but Jorge has never said that. Jorge has said that the red eyes means Odysseus is being a monster and to symbolize the change he has gone through that why Odysseus’ never change from being red in the Ithaca Saga
I gotta say, I think this is the best saga. Penelope's voice is my absolute favorite in the show, so I loved her having a song all to herself for the most part. Hold them Down is one of the best villain songs we've seen from anyone for a very long time, but then again this musical is like prime Disney. EVERY Villain song is amazing. Odysseus, which I personally should've been called Old King, but Odysseus is still cool, shows how powerful he's become because he has his own background vocals SAYING HIS NAME LIKE POLY IN SURVIVE! I Can't Help But Wonder literally broke me because I've had that, my dad once couldn't see me for ages and when I finally saw him again, it was my graduation day, and he'd been gone for all of high school. And then the last song is fine, it doesn't really do anything for me.
Something I LOVE about Anna, Penelope's voice actress, is the subtleties in her voice. As the siren, in the last part of Suffering, you could tell every time she repeated "I can take the suffering from you." She was getting more and more irritated like "Would you just get in the water already?" In Challenge, when she's giving the suitors the bow and presenting the challenge, there's a slight mocking tone, like she's saying "I know it's possible, but not for any of you."
Also, Airer, now that THIS musical is over for now, because this is just the concept album, this is just the START, may I suggest Undertale the Musical by MOTI? It's great, tells the story of Undertale well with some minor changes, most of which I love, and the songs just SLAP.
When Odysseus and Athena have their final scene I also think it’s sort of like Odysseus is saying that he’s no longer capable of believing in peace on a grand scale (no longer able to greet the world with open arms), but if it’s possible, he believes Athena could make it happen. Which was just super touching to me.
I don't know how many people actually noticed, but the last animation with 'Would you Fall in Love with Me Again' is actually done by Gigi, the first time we've seen Gigi do a fully colored animation actually for Epic! But for reason there were no credits in the video (maybe someone forgot, or they're somewhere later or earlier that I've missed it) but I noticed not a lot of people knew that it was in fact Gigi.
Penelope actually delayed the suitors for 3 years with her weaving then unweaving everything at night and none of them knew this🤣
EPIC had left a hole in my heart. This has been an incredible journey. I joined at the release of the vengeance saga. But since that, this fandom and community has been nothing but amazing!!
So a couple of fun things in this saga.
During Odysseus, you did catch him using monstrous tactics of his past encounters.
The danger motif is rolling through chanting "O-dy-sse-us" in the same paces as our cyclopian monster "Po-ly-the-mus", while Ody locks the doors to the palace, blocking the exit just as the cyclops had.
As you pointed out, he did strike out at the torch bearers in the same manner as Scylla
He stripped them of their ability to fight back like Circe by hiding away their weapons and leaving them in the dark
He taught them that Ruthlessness as Posiden had taught him
And he brought judgement to them for their crimes as Zues had to his crew
As for the final song, when Ody begins to recount, you hear the motifs of turning points sneak in behind his words.
"Left a trail of red on every island" Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves
"Traded friends like objects I could use" Thunderbringer
"Hurt more lives then I can count on my hands" I'm not sorry for loving you (I think)
"Athena reunion would have a more emotional impact cause we saw her fight for him more than telemachus or Penelope" as soon as you said that I thought big talk for someone who forgot the next song is THE last song and then also him Penelope making him laugh cry
For the reunion with Athena, I think that he feels he's been away for so long, missed so much, that he was refusing anything that might take any more time from what mattered most. In the end, that better world he had been considering helping build, he'd trade the world to see his son and wife.
I NOTICED SOMETHING AT THE END OF HOLD THEM DOWN BEFORE!!! BEFORE THE ARROW GETS LODGED IN ANTINOUS’S THROAT, THERE IS THE SOUND OF IT BEING SHOT AT HIM!!! ODYSSEUS WAS IN THAT SONG THE WHOLE TIME!!!
I imagine Ares trying to do right by Athena and blessing Odysseus for the fight, except he goofed since he was trying to help bring back the smart war man Athena was proud of and accidentally poured too much liquid rage into the potion he hucked at Odysseus before the fight.
there were six torches lit at the beginning of the Odyseus
"winion profile pic twerking it is" caught me off guard LOL 😂
6:45 Wellll....technically the sutiors were of the noble houses. They do have some strenght and fighting prowess. They COULD have gone to Troy, they just didnt want to
Come here, let’s open our arms for a big hug :' )
This has truly been a wonderful journey.
I love how it all started with Gigi and ended with Gigi. ❤
“Hold Them Down” is a fantastic villain song and Ayron kills the vocals. The artwork/animatics are also amazing.
Very fun fact: they did this live in ithaca EVEN BETTER IS THAT there was a STOOORRM which delayed things(poseidon and zues really don't want this stream to happen) AND the ferry they were supposed to get one left A MINUTE before they got there so it felt like when they opened the bag
ALSO the wifi was very horrible they couldn't do the stream 😂
But they did it like a day or two after
Jorge never felt as odysseus as he did that time😂
True odyssey
HELL YEAH ! TRAUMA TIME
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
23:44 jorge and mico(telemachus) hugging just breaks me to pieces and is the cutest thing ever
Their reaction to hold them down are just soo real😂
The end broke them like it broke us 😭😭😭
I'd just like to say that as someone who has been with Epic since the Cyclops Saga, that ending was incredibly beautiful. I caught the premiere live and while I didn't cry, I did just for at least an hour and probably much longer just sit there rewatching the last song (And occasionally one or two others) almost tearing up. Finally at the end it just all came out, and while I didn't cry I did hugely tear up. That ending was definitely the most emotional I got about an ending that year (Including Arcane in that statement) and even now (I understand it's less than a month later (Currently it's 22:08 PM 15/01/2025)) and it's still really getting to me. The ending was just so utterly perfect. I've had a few problems with the last few Sagas (Basically all of the other ones in Act 2) especially the Vengeance Saga, but I still have absolutely no problems with The Ithaca Saga at all. I could go on, but this seems like enough for now.
The laughing and crying at the same time is genuinely one of the highest praises reaction wise a viewer could give something.
My old husband's bow 🚫
My husband's old bow ✅
I'm sobbing.. 🥺💖
"He was never gentle"
Hush, yes he was.
So the whole crew, minus Poseidon's singer due to some health reasons iirc, actually all got together and went to Ithaca for the Livestream.
Apparently Miko, Telemachus' singer, did not have a good time getting over there. Apparently his tiktok got banned or something as well, and it was a whole panic for the crew and the fans as well.
16:57 love how before he moves Athena’s quick thought plays like he’s mapping out his strategy and moves before execution truly in sync with Athena
Edit that’s his stand name : In Sync lol jkjk
Not only does Penelope singing “Waiting” 7 times kill me, but also the fact there’s 7 COUNTS OF SILENCE between “father!” ……. “Son..” 😭😭😭😭🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻
This is the sixth or seventh reaction I've watched of Ithaca Saga, and still I'm crying
Ive been waiting for you to post this, saw it on the livestream, but wanted to rewatch, definitely my favorite Ithaca Saga reaction video
I’ve watched so many reactors and majority of them never recognize Athena’s theme. Every time those reversed notes play most of them are confused by what that might be
You should check out animatics for the cut songs, a lot of the other songs, especially in the Ithaca saga, reference back to them.
There were two separate drafts for showing the beginning of Odysseus and Penelope's first meeting, one focusing on Athena "I need her to be mine" where the whole song is a slight revamp of the tune of warrior of the mind, while "Man of the House" has lines that were reused for both the challenge and hold them down with darker meanings.
The laughing crying is so real. I was sobbing and rocking back forth while holding onto my plushie for dear life. I was so overwhelmed TT
There is a game coming out. Made with Jorge by the guy who did the street fighter animatic for little wolf
!!!!!!!!!!
Yup. I'm getting this as soon as it's out.
@Airier me too.
Some fun fact and a horrible fact, So while the sutors was singing and plotting Odyssey was stringing his old bow and hidding there wepons and deciding to lisen to there plan's. Also, the red eyes are him giving into the monster, just like what the prophet said. I see you take your last breath, He say Posiden kill Ody humanity and made him let out the monster to push a little further not only to defeat Posiden but to do what needed to be done to protect his family. In both instances, you can hear the prophets theme in the mix.
If you listen closely in Hold Them Down, you can hear Ody singing with the Suitors. He was there the whole time and heard all of it.
Also Ody isn't the one who left the weapons room unlocked. Telemachus heard all the fighting and went to arm himself, and he was still in there when the group of Suitors showed up. It's why the door wasn't locked.
For the part of WYFILWMA where it goes through the flashback of animatics, those are all canon animatics Jorge had commissioned from the other livestreams.
Also it's been fuken weeks man, and those last two songs still make me cry every time.
As far as what the one person said regarding Jorge not wanting EPIC to be a play, Jorge has said he doesn't want EPIC going on Broadway because he feels they don't have the tech to portray his vision. He DOES want a stage performance, but more something along the lines of Cirque du Soleil, since that sort of thing has the kind of tech he wants for EPIC.
THANK YOU! You are the first person ive seen notice how he was mimicking scylla with the torches
FINALYY AIRIER REACTING TO ITHACA SAGA DROPPED!
Its been 40 years...
I love how we triggered our cries at the same time because the last two songs are just so beautiful and heartwarming, the happiness of seeing Odysseus finally arrive home to Penelope and Telemachus is just the best feeling.
31:47 these animatics here are all the ones from his livestreams, all of them are the cannon animatics
After everything is over, it’s almost gorgeous how everything has finally come together in the end.
And the best part I don’t think you realize, the last animator is GIGI, the very same animator who started everything with her “horse and the infant” and “just a man” animatics.
But you most definitely might’ve not recognized it because Gigi had added COLOR to her animation instead of a flat color, she fully colored them because Odysseus is HOME where his life is now completely full of color.
Most people started with Gigi, we ended with Gigi.
You should watch the entire watching party video only on the cast camera because its the most entertaining thing i have seen them do.
The few times i came across demos for this saga, I honestly feared for Telemachus knowing Odysseus would be killing the suitors.
On a different note: I like to think the Hold them down song, gave Odysseus enough self awareness to control his monster persona, hence my Telemachus safety fear becomes unfounded. 🤔 i wonder though, if it would have been better to animate Telemachus bringing Odysseus out of his monster mode, like how some stories are written where one is in a battle frenzy thay only breaks when the character puts a loved one at sword point, and the non aggressive family member kills the battle frenzy almost immediately. And that would be the que to go into I can't help but wonder [too dramatoc maybe?]
Enough to make a grown man cry! Bravo, Jorge!
I dont understand why you expected a bad ending?
J said that at the Base of everything, EPIC is a Love Story. And the rule is that Love Storys, no matter how tragic, must have a Happy Ending.
When i watched the last song and they had hugged I had to sing im just a man. (keep in mind i was crying while singing)
8:27 him just being silent and still though it.. just says it all
And thus ends our journessy 😭
29:15 kill herself!??! Why would you even think that? lmao
Fr that was out of left field Telemachus literally said father she is waiting for you not father she is dead 😭😭😭😭😭
I swear, watching Scylla's singer during the Livestream is such a treat.😂
33:43 Im not sure if he's laughing or crying 😂
FOCUS ON THE LYRICS!!! 😂😂
For the last time, the red eyes have NOTHING to do with Ares
I could hear the words to just a man in my head too 😢 this obliterated me 😅
The way I've been religiously checking UA-cam every day since the saga dropped, waiting for your reaction 😭
You pointed out the RedEyes=AresHelp theories, so I feel the need to point out that these animatics have now firmly debunked them.
Of course, I'm also obligated to remind people to take these "canon" animatics with a grain of salt. This is still only a concept album at the end of the day. Plenty can change.
The same person selling the hoodies (there's 2) they are also selling 3 types of tea, Athena, Circe, and now Hermes
... is the Hermes one lsd?
@shadowrealm4206 They are marketing it as Holy Moly, but flavor wise it's Huckleberry Earl Grey with Cardamom and Orange Peel
at 10:00 i think thats where you said the shark or wolf teeth you could say the pack of wolfs are swimming with THE shark now
I love your reactions dude, I was anticipating this for a while now
That was the perfect ending. An emotional support wife indeed.
Your react video was the most awaited video for me!! I love everything about it!!
😊
4:19 future me how was it the second time they brought waiting back?
Future me: LAUGH CRY, A MOOD.
No sage can make grown men sob as they laugh like the Ithaca saga.
At the end, she says she's waiting for each saga there was
Your channel has been recommended to me so many times, how have I not notice the twerking winion as your picture
Tis a subtle Winions, indeed. 😁