Psychiatric Interview: BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) | Part 1 | Dr. Lois Choi-Kain
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 лют 2021
- A first meeting between a person diagnosed with BPD and expert clinician Lois Choi-Kain, who is the Director of the Gunderson Personality Disorders Institute at McLean Hospital.
You can find Part 2 (Analysis with Dr. Choi-Kain) here: • Psychiatric Interview:...
And Part 3 (Debrief with Client) here: • Psychiatric Interview:...
Playlist of all Charlotte vids:
• Charlotte | pwBPD
Dr. Choi-Kain is a leader in the Good or General Psychiatric Management (GPM) approach developed by her mentor John Gunderson, M.D. with his long-time collaborator Paul Links, M.D. GPM aims to be a generic form of BPD centered care that is more accessible and just plain good treatment. This video demonstrates the GPM approach.
This is a long form, minimally edited interview. This is not an acted scene. Please be advised: subjects discussed include anger, attempted suicide, relationship issues and drug use.
This video is part of a series of sessions with therapists who work with Borderline Personality Disorder. Playlist of all videos to date is here: • Playlist
Dr. Choi-Kain is a powerhouse in the BPD treatment world. Her short bio:
"Lois W. Choi-Kain, MEd, MD, is the director of the Gunderson Personality Disorders Institute. The institute provides training and supervision for numerous proven treatments, including mentalization-based treatment (MBT), dialectical behavioral therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder (DBT-PTSD), transference focused psychotherapy (TFP), and general psychiatric management (GPM). She works nationally and internationally to expand teaching efforts on borderline personality disorder and its evidence-based treatments and engages in research to study resources for training clinicians who need direction and patients who need access to informed care. With her mentor, John Gunderson, Dr. Choi-Kain developed a training program for GPM and has been expanding its applications.
In 2009, Dr. Choi-Kain developed the Gunderson Residence, a specialized residential program for adult women with severe personality disorders. In 2013, she founded the BPD Training Institute, a major center for proliferating awareness of and evidence-based care for severe personality disorders. Dr. Choi-Kain has also developed training clinics in McLean’s Adult Outpatient Services for treatment approaches such as MBT and DBT-PTSD."
-----------------------------
For more information about BORDERLINE, the feature-length documentary we made about BPD, please visit: borderlinethefilm.com
Our archive of videos on mental health is expanding - be sure to subscribe to our channel here: / borderlinernotes
Disclaimer: "Please be advised this video may contain sensitive information. All content found within this publication (VIDEO) is provided for informational purposes only. All cases may differ, and the information provided is a general guide. The content is not intended to be used as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have specific questions about a medical condition, you should consult your doctor or other qualified medical professional for assistance or questions you have regarding a medical condition. Studio Comma The, LLC and BorderlinerNotes does not recommend any specific course of medical remedy, physicians, products,opinion, or other information.
Studio Comma The, LLC and BorderlinerNotes expressly disclaims responsibility and shall have no liability for any damages, loss, injury, or liability whatsoever suffering as a result of reliance on the information in this publication. If you or someone you know is considering self-harm or suicide, it’s okay to ask for help. 24 hour support is provided by www.hopeline-nc.org (877.235.4525), suicidepreventionlifeline.org (800.273.8255), kidshelpphone.ca (800.668.6868).”
I have Bpd and it’s crazy how we explain how much we are hurting, but it just comes off just as rambling to others😔
Yeah...
yes
intellectualizing emotion because feeling emotion is not a capacity we currently think we have.
OH MY GOD I feel this so much 😢
You know, i always said that i thought i was like a MARTYR. i never understood why i feel so much pain, and why i can feel other their pain. untill i was diagnosed with BPD, now it all makes sense. I can relate to you buddy, you are not alone! 💪🙏
Can you imagine what a precious child she had been? Oh, how I wish she had had a loving and kind mother.
So true
❤️
I thought that too, I've known this soul for five minutes and I adore her, but I think it's her experiences that have made her the soft and kind person she is today.
Hell yes!
She seems so genuine
15:04 struck me. “Do you remember how you felt?”. “Yeah, I always remember that”. That’s my whole life. I live in a purely emotional landscape. I can forget a major life event because I was dissociated through the entire thing but if my feelings were hurt then I’ll remember that for decades.
Omg 😳 I am you 😳 😢
That's me.
Do you remember or care when you hurt others? Just curious, seriously.
@@tonibauer2405 I do. I remember for years and regret it over and over but I still have a hard time not repeating them because when I loose it I have to fight myself to stop. Now that I’m older I can admit it but even a few years ago I would never admit I was messing up and I knew it deep down.
This is the most beautifully stated and eeriely relatable explanation of how I also navigate life; within the framework of a "Purely emotional landscape". ❤️
Wow. I think it’s amazing this woman was willing to be vulnerable and share herself like this.
Seems narcissistic.
Yes!
people with BPD tend to feel comfortable "oversharing" it is part of trauma. at least on my end
Your that same Person mellie.you cant hide behind that manipulative mask your wearing.i don't want y'all in my life
The comments under this comment is terrible. Yes it is over sharing but not for winning over compassion. It’s rude making ignorant assumptions. Communication is a hard thing, hence not being able to regulate and self harm. Therapy teaches to open up and process experiences and self.
I like this doctor a lot. She interacts so skillfully and gently.
"Your anger is the part of you that knows your mistreatment and abuse are unacceptable. Your anger knows you deserve to be treated well, and with kindness. Your anger is a part of you that LOVES you." Thank you so much for this video.
Yep, seemed obvioud to me. Refuse to refuse anger
Sometimes it feels like these youtube videos are my only safe place to talk about this disorder and express myself. Knowing I'm not alone suffering with this is inexplicable.
You aren’t alone in how you feel. Mental illness is looked down upon and it’s very lonely at times.
I work in mental health and I wish I was a bit more like Dr Choi-Kain. There is something very satisfying in seeing a clinician make a meaningful connection with a client.
Thanks for the beautiful comment, and for your presence here. -P
Been in therapy for over decade....never experienced a therapist this good.
Dont be afraid to try on new doctors until you find one that feels right! And definitely seek out the ones that specialize in healing these wounds specific to your issue.
@@Highlikeheaven89 these therapists are some of the best in the business for BPDn and only accessible to those who have wealth. Treatment at MacLean as an inpatient is about about 40K a month. The film maker's father is a major real estate developer in NYC.
@@sailing9802 I'm on SSDI and poor af, living in low income housing. I've been with my therapist for 7 years and she is very similar to this one. They exist outside of wealthy institutions but I'm so very lucky to have found her. It's definitely worth finding one that fits with you if you can.
@@emilymurdoch6713yes!! im poor from nyc and second this... keep looking!!! And look into "sliding scale"
@@emilymurdoch6713Does your therapist do virtual therapy? Are they accepting new patients?
Her turtle without a shell analogy is amazing. Amazing how she is able to articulate her pain in such a vivid way.
I appreciate that analogy too.
I did a total double take when she said that. It's the exact phrase I used a few years back to my Counsellor & he said it made him wince to imagine being that raw day in day out.
but now she has a shell!
That's the part that hit me, too. Right in the heart.
Is she an actor?
26:26
"Yes, it's true that you don't always manage your emotional life in a way that's optimal for others, but that doesn't mean you have to always make yourself optimal to others."
THIS IS IMPORTANT
I had to read this thrice to understand it. It hits deep
Unless you're the family member being abused by a bpd
@@Retro_Disco It is assumed that the bpd in question would be interested in a path that did not continue the abuse of others, as there is a very broad division between "being optimal" for someone else and "not abusing them". One does not have to be one's optimal self to avoid abusing others, I believe that would be a minimum requirement of invested recovery.
Then what's the goal. How do you quantify progress. What's the purpose.
@@painoftheheart12 The goal is reaching a state of emotional regulation and management that gives one the opportunity to stop the emotional outbursts that lead to abuse/meltdown. Progress is quantified by the understanding of emotional management techniques and effective communication skills achieved by a bpd, as reflected in their behaviors and self-judgement. The purpose is, ultimately, to end self-loathing and feel love when it's offered.
I have been recently diagnosed with BPD and this video in a weird way makes me more empathetic towards myself. I really loved what the therapist said that there is this bigger gap between the self and how we want our people to see us (as compared to people without borderline). I truly believe that BPD has a lot do with child's temperament as well. My twin sister said she learned to dissociate from her emotions at the young age. She remembers clearly when our father was shouting at us or our parents argued she did not feel any intense emotions and could see that my dad was unreasonable. Me on the other hand was shaking and always left in despair/anger after these incidents. I did not learn to dissociate from my emotions and didn't learn to self-soothe. We both paid high price for emotional dysregulation (as emotional dissociation is also not healthy for her). That is why even if I am 33 years old when I argue with someone I love I still feel like this little girl who lies in her bad and is crying herself to sleep. I am sending LOVE to all people with BPD who are reading this! I truly believe that BPD can be a gift if we learn to properly use it. Because we go through so much pain we don't want to see anyone in pain (as we mistakenly think they feel as we are). We read people's emotions very well and can be support for others. However, first we need to be all that for ourselves :-)
Bravo, that's incredibly insightful 👏
From the age of 6 I felt I must protect my Mum from my Dad's beatings - she couldn't walk, she had multiple sclerosis - with no-one else around, disassociation was never an option. Who else did my Mum have to help?
❤
i completely agree. i have gone through a ton of diagnoses including bpd (my mom is also dx bpd) and underlying that is so much sensitivity, empathy, and mirror neurons which are huge strengths when we can manage the more difficult sxs.
Sending love to you
This is like watching myself in therapy. 😳 Weird, but also makes me feel so much less alone and less weird.
Same
Same same 🦄
Same same ... same 🦊
Same
Yes!
Lost my husband to suicide. Glad that this woman is getting help. Dr Sam Vaknin indicates BPD does get less intense and can disappear starting in your mid 40’s. This isn’t always the case, but it gives credibility to what she is saying. He states that BPD is a form of PTSD from childhood trauma. Sending continued healing and light to this beautiful woman.
I am so sorry for your loss. What sadness. We do have videos by Gunderson and Zanarini that address the diminishing of BPD intensity as one ages... Here is a link to some of the videos that address this: ua-cam.com/video/futyR8mGABI/v-deo.html, ua-cam.com/video/zcAQ42-isLg/v-deo.html - I think these two videos sort of address what you're talking about, but might also be worth perusing their playlists...
@@BorderlinerNotes thank you 🙏
@@BorderlinerNotes the problem is that by then, a lot may be lost. Twenty years of building a career. Perhaps having a family. Of course with longer life spans there is time to lead a fulfilling life, but not, perhaps, a traditional one.
Vaknin, not sure he holds any degree in psychology. He's also made claims that borderlines are failed psychopaths and that's essentially what we thrive to become. He mixes some truthful facts with a lot of bs and he claims himself to be a malignant narcissist and a psychopath. I don't think he really understands all aspects or subtypes of borderline at all from his videos I've watched. I feel like he is often perpetuating the stigma which surrounds people like us who are not on a certain end of the spectrum. I'm sure if you were to watch all his videos and make notes you will see what I'm saying in terms of contradictions, demonizing and creating fear mongering around the label. I never found any of his videos to be helpful for me or healing in any way.
@@LuxMeow actually he says that borderlines are "failed narcissists". They become "secondary psychopaths" (ie psychopaths with empathy and emotion) when facing perceived abandonment. I learned a ton from Sam vaknin but he's definitely not everyone's cup of tea
What creates a borderline personality is the constant invalidation during childhood. We are born with a supernatural like ability as children when it comes to feeling empathy, awareness and being in tune with our surrounding environment. Extreme sensory and when unable to express that or have a safe environment to thrive, these things become intertwined with self hatred for having these specific gifts that are not appreciated as if there is something wrong with us. Inflicting harm on our self-esteem and value since the adult/s around us usually seen these emotions as a threat to them, especially anger.
Unless it was beneficial to them, so then we experience a sort of love hate relationship, super conditional, painful love which is very lonely and upsetting to a child who is learning about themselves and stunted in processing these heightened emotions which the caregiver has 0 guidance for. As they often have a hard time themselves with their own emotions and often callous or emotionally unstable. You do not feel consistently loved if at all, you go unheard often and take out all the aggression inwards when it comes to feeling. Until you reach a point of exploding like a volcano.
It's one of the worst childhoods emotionally speaking, it's like a prison. It doesn't end in childhood though and continues cycling on through adulthood in the most insidious of ways. Absolute torture.
This is exactly my take away from these two sessions. It appeared so obvious to me that this is the root of Charlotte’s unhappiness. Yes, profound unhappiness derived from not having the nurturing unconditional love from her mother. Charlotte’s mother probably experienced the same treatment from her own mother.
I kept waiting for the therapist to tell Charlotte that she didn’t deserve the treatment she received from her mother. It’s perfectly understandable that Charlotte felt trapped with no way to defend herself. I think it’s safe to assume that when Charlotte finds herself in a situation that produces those same trapped feelings, it manifests an uncontrollable lashing out to relieve the hurt and frustration she feels.
It saddens me that the therapists didn’t mentor her with a paradigm shift that explains why this happened to her. Her mother most likely was treated the same way and acted out the same way Charlotte does now. Then encourage Charlotte to give herself some compassion. Maybe, in time, she would be able to give her mother some compassion too and the two of them could develop a loving relationship.
Love cures everything.
@@cherylsmith1659 I think your last statement is contradictory to everything else you've written because traumatized people who love conditionally don't really love at all. Love can't cure everything when it's not a one fits all but a foreign language to many. The challenge in that is how people's brains are altered and don't always come around to be able to love at all.
Someone noticed and probably one of the reasons why someone wrote the book about the 5 love languages to help people to at least feel loved in the way they understand. Even so, this can be used to take advantage of those who are more emotive and less logical.
You can give certain people of these groups all the love you want and they will gladly take it it all to the detriment of your own health without ever transforming to someone who can love other people. So love alone does not always cure trauma, learning new skills around that trauma can help but there is no removal of memories of what occurred. That exists in the shadow side of the personality. A lot of damage remains even where love exists since the brain can split off into fragments. Example, Jekyll Hyde. The duality in trauma and the shadow side.
Those with borderline are fragmented and the human brain is more complex than we know which is why it's still not fully understood.
Anyway my write up wasn't just an observation of Charlotte, I've experienced for myself which gives me decent insight into the foundation of BPD.
Spot on.
you are so damn right
Our bodies need nutrition, our minds need stimulation, our hearts need connection and our souls NEED to express. Balancing that is tricky especially for us with BPD we need to find a way to express our anger without inciting anger and without ruining our connections. For example in the past I got cheated on and blamed men and went on rants on snapchat how men are primal beings who can’t think passed their own selfish desires. But then I matured realized that was bad taste and bitter and I got cheated on again. Except this time I needed to find out the root and discovered oh wait I’m living in the first generation where boys grew up addicted to porn and video games, is it really their fault when they’ve been taught from a young age that their worth is directly related to their sex lives? Or that society deems this as beautiful and not that. So this time I was able to calmly talk about the issues our society has and our individual issues of seeking validation and becoming attached to others, instead of the issues men have because it’s not a man or woman thing it’s environmental & it affects all of us, that reached people in a different way I had a lot of great conversations come from that. I felt better & was able to let go easily because my soul was able to express that hurt caused by my own attachment and a perceived severed connection. I’m friends with him now and all of that is in the past but I truly think if I wasn’t able to calmly express myself publicly it would have gone badly.
I hope the woman who was interviewed for these sessions is reading these comments. It is incredibly brave of her to subject herself to this public session. I am so glad she did. She is an incredibly strong, smart and self knowing individual. I know it likely took some time in therapy to get there as she has suggested, but just putting herself out there like she has is inspirational. I hope you are reading this because you are amazing!
I agree! I’ve learned so much from this session!
Yeap the gap between who you “really are” and “who you think you need to be for others” to have friends or get a job is one of the most torturous things. This session shines a light on that and I think therefore helped many people get a head start on what to work on. Including myself.
This is old news. Alice miller talked about this in the 1970s. Loads of books she wrote on it like the "False Self"
This was truly amazing and inspirational. The therapist is outstanding and the client so remarkable and determined, intelligent. I was amazed at the self awareness of the patient and the way the therapist so naturally, almost effortlessly validated her and called things out all while keeping intellectually and even personally at her level. I hope to find a therapist so remarkable.
We agree. We are / were lucky on all fronts to have two remarkable people committed to giving this a go.
This Therapist is Amazing, if we should all be so lucky
You mean shocking *lack* of self awareness.
@@amalekited what are you even talking about?
I also hope you find a therapist as remarkable as Dr. Lois Choi-Kain
Wow. When she says- “you weren’t aloud to have pride in yourself” That is such an important grounding emotion that you MUST have, that I think the people who suffer the most have lost. Because the opposite of pride is shame and shame is a painful and deep emotion. Truly forgiving yourself and loving yourself is the cure.
Exactlyyy love how you wrote that. Then the shame becomes identity based and even harder to let go of.
Yep. Having pride in their children or encouraging their children to be proud of themselves was something neither of my parents could do. My mom sought her father’s approval until the day he died.
@@tonibauer2405 wow she must’ve been so heartbroken when her father passed away. I can understand this though I was in the same boat always wanting that affirmation from the parent who never gave it to me.
Wrong. The opposite of pride is humiliation. Then you shame yourself for experiencing humiliation.
Forgiving and loving yourself when youve done nothing wrong makes no sense. Its self- compassion thats needed and its not the same. She needs to learn to be on her own side. Subtle, but powerful difference in approaching wellness.
Many people just cant afford this level of therapy, and its really sad because me and many others with bpd wont be able to get the help we need because it costs too much. Bpd seems to be a diagnosis for those with disposable income. It literally costs too much to have bpd
this is true. why can't more people get help?
yes, and also how only the 'experts' can 'diagnose' - good luck for those who cannot afford a diagnosis, and be grateful for someone who can accurately self diagnose or someone who is not a PhD who has a talent and a skill for identifying it to diagnose it for someone else.
Yes. I have a 30 yr old daughter on medicaid who recently attempted suicide who was released from the hospital without even one meeting with a psychiatrist. She was transferred to a horrific rehab center for observation and they let her walk 2 hours after arriving. If you don't have money, they don't give a crap.
@@nancyferland6044 I’m very sad they treated your daughter this way. I can’t believe they wouldn’t even have her talk to a psychiatrist. That’s a new low.
Well I’m here in “med-city,” of all places, and I’m clueless where to get help for bipolar, ptsd, and bpd. (Unless it’s ER because I’m a danger to myself.) It’s ridiculous living here around so many MD’s and PHD’s who charge more than I can afford, on the one hand, and then listening to the bourgeoisie boast about how great their therapist is while they sip their Starbuck’s sludge into their stapled stomachs, on the other. People don’t understand that getting help for our illness requires more than just a willingness to get help. It also requires a money.
@@nancyferland6044 Sadly, I think hospitals aren’t about diagnosis and treatment. They are about preventing imminent suicide. If the suicide risk becomes more remote, then it’s bye bye and here’s a prescription for meds and some phone numbers to call. You can come back if you attempt suicide again.
Man...I got more out of this than I get from going to my own therapy. Where can I find a therapist like this?
EXACTLY 🙌
She is such a good example of borderline. I am borderline, I used to wake up everyday wanting to literally die. Thankfully I don't feel that way anymore.
She has a strong personality and I appreciate how honest she is. Wish her all the best.
I can relate to the “clapping”-story. My dad was always angry and I couldn’t figure out why. Every move/word was a possible trigger for him. I wasn’t allowed to express anger either. So I started harming myself to “provoke tears” - and make him stop.
Ha. My mom’s response to what she perceived as my tears of frustration or anger was “you better stop or I’ll give you something to cry about.”
I think her father did the same to her. So glad I didn’t have kids to damage and pass that on to.
@@tonibauer2405 I also decided not to have kids. But I know I’m different. And I bet you are too 🤗
My dad was alway angry too. I used to dig into my face with my fingernails cause i hated myself. Never knew this could be BPD
@@tonibauer2405 Every black child heard the same things you said. I know your comment is year old, but still I can relate to.
this is not a strong personality lol
This therapist is amazing, so insightful, gentle and wise.
she has a very deep kindness the therapist.
Right? I was very impressed with her and would feel infinitely more comfortable pursuing therapy if I could find a professional like this. Seems hard to come by.
This therapist is way less judgmental than the other. She asks questions doesn't make conclusions..Kudos
She connects better with the patient too. She’s more affirming and responsive.
I'm 55 and was diagnosed with bpd 4 months ago. I seriously thought I was losing my mind. The ups the downs the anger.
I'm 55 too, diagnosed at 16. Still struggling ...
Therapist did such a great job working with her.
I am really rooting for this patient. I pray that she finds peace and healing in her life.
With BPD you don't heal, you just learn to cope, for the rest of your life.
This was a great video, I also had a breakthrough around age 30. I think borderline often is comorbid with adhd which could often contribute to the brain maturing late. My mom definitely also is borderline. My life was in chaos only 2-3 years ago but I finally have a life worth living ❤️ saying this so you know there is hope for you as well ❤️
Cluster B personalities . Often BPD co morbid with narcissism . Also neuroticism and autism = BPD
Thank you so much for your message, it gives me hope. I'm 32, enemployed for almost 3 years now, I used to be able to 'maintain a normal life' with a work and a social life, but it was all fake, it was an illusion and I ended up threwing everything and everyone out of my life. The 'young adult' phase was clearly a twisting part. I needed therapy badly, now I'm way better after DBT yet still fighting against social anxiety. And everyday I have little more hope 🦋
Try Amazon. I'm serious. It is working for me.
@@joycejnn hi, yes it can often be comorbid, since it stems from the same type of traumas. Autism being a part of bpd tho, never heard anything of that sort before.
@@LaGrossePaulik glad You are on the right path 🙏
13:57 She "wasn't allowed to be angry" as a child. Wow!
I can relate. Expressing any emotion when I was a child was hugely resented or dismissed
Yep, having a narcissistic parent, Its all about them, only they can show emotions. The children are pawns for guilt, what some narcissists construed as “love” and to just make them feel better. Growing up not being able to show anger, or emotions, in the end will just make the anger grow into rage. It’s horrible.
I wasn't allowed to express anger either as a child. .. My emotions and my "self" was so repressed as a child. Have had so many psychological and depression issues as an adult. I am wondering if I am borderline, actually.... 🤔
I thought my BPD was subsiding due to my age, but it was hiding; waiting for the the right time. Since I got my most recent job that requires frequent interactions and justification for everything, I lash out a lot more. I'm so on edge at work. It's like I'm back in High School and college. help!
“For you to be yourself you feel at risk. At the mercy of someone else’s hands who you can’t control” .....🥺 I really appreciate you both doing this from the bottom of my heart.
She is really beautiful when she smiles.
I really like this therapist a lot. She validates but also asks really good questions.
I think this session was so much better than with the other therapist. The other one was a little intimidating, this one felt a lot more safe.
As a medical student, this has been really helpful in elucidating the characteristics of people with BPD. Thank you, sincerely
As a student you should know that BDP affects everyone differently. How we show ourselves on camera might be truly different from reality.
A borderline in today's world is anyone who is involved with a narcissist or sociopath whose abusive current spouse/family member has lied about the person's behavior, statements, motivations to paint a portrait of them as a borderline. The abuser will do this to gain total control. This is how most bpd individuals are created. In reality the alleged bpd has not done or said any of the things she has been accused of but the false diagnosis will stick for life until the misdiagnosed dies, one way or another.
Living with BPD and PTSD is not such a.great combination.. I have spent my life in therapy, but when I found DBT it changed everything! Learning how to regulate emotions saved my life.
It helps when you begin to face a lot of your pain and start to allow yourself to grieve what you lost in having a good childhood with loving, involved, supportive parents because for me too, having irresponsible, out of control parents, I think forced and molded my 6 sisters and I too step up and be more like little adults and more in control of our emotions, we learned very young to shove emotions down because our feelings did not matter, no one asked, no one noticed if we had them. So we got up and just went back to school in the morning, get yourself dressed, leave, feed yourself etc and you act like you're fine..all day and all week... after your mom flipped out and had to be taken to a mental hospital for the 10th time, and was going to be gone 6 months..and dad works and then drinks & passes out, or you land at one aunt or another's house, or the orphanage at 4 yrs old, separated from your sisters..
I never saw any good examples of an adult handling their stress, sadness, problems in a healthy way, we did not talk about feelings, w did not get feedback from our parents. So I never learned what to do with my sadness, or anger. The 2 examples I saw, under stress, they 'ran away' and escaped their emotions by delving into a pill bottle or alcohol or a mental hospital. Mom's mental illness was not anyone's fault, so you couldn't even let yourself be mad or stay angry at her for the awful things she'd do or say when she was totally delusional or hallucinating in a manic phase....but holding in all we went through, well....the damage gets done. So I did not know how to cope with the regular heart aches and stressors of life, the pain or rejection, at all. I tried to kill myself about 8 times, 4 times nearly succeeded....until age 50, my husband of 28 years died in his sleep at 49 yrs old unexpectedly and I saw my 4 kids (21 to 28 at that time in 2010) suffer so much that I vowed I'd never try to hurt myself again, because HOW could I EVER intentionally put them through the pain of their mom dying, like THAT especially. I realized the lifetime impact it could cause them to go through if I was to leave them like that. How they'd feel to think their mom could not tough out any sadness, any problems she had to, in order to BE HERE for them, I knew it would haunt them forever because we are very close. I'd only be passing my pain and my and my parent's dysfunction down to them, so it had to stop ! I got on the internet and started researching why I automatically just wanted to die when I got very upset, crying, why I'd done that all my life and if I could change it. It somehow hit me that I did not know how to self soothe and calm myself down in that state, so I decided I needed a good mother and mine was gone already, (she did get on great meds when I was about 26, in 1986 & she had very few nervous breakdowns in the last 20 years of her life so we grew a wonderful relationship before her death). I decided I was going to have to be that good mom for myself, to talk back to my negative inner voice & learn how to toughen up, build self esteem, be more resilient, be good to myself for once and then forever more. That put into daily practice has helped me more than antidepressants ever did.
I started teaching myself to comfort myself just as I had comforted, assured my own kids, been kind to them when they hurt to "make it better" instead of worse, as a good mom would have. It has really helped me a lot.
Most people don't start to see how they've been negatively affected by events as a child, or their environment, until their late 20's, but the good thing is ; once you do notice something is not working for you, or that you could improve in some areas, you really CAN address it and retrain your thinking to benefit you and build you up, You can decide to love and to accept yourself as worthy, period, regardless of whether you think you fit into some odd idea of perfection, (which no one hits). Love yourself and if you want to seek ways to improve some part of yourself, know that you can. We don't have to continue the bad habits or poor coping skills, we can still learn better ways to live. .
This comment made me cry, I have Bpd diagnosed at a very young age have never taken anything, her father is very narcissistic and when I have a hard time coping with emotions my daughter witnesses me cry angry happy in such a short amount of time in a day, this made me realize I need to get some help whatever that may be. I love her so much she knows i love her i do hold her and continously praise her and protect her but her not seeing emotional stability and you wrote it so well breaks my heart.
@@mluz1916 I too lived with a very narcissistic man for many many years. I now realize that they pick people like I was because they can sense from the way I was raised, that obviously I was not going to be a woman who would demand a lot from him, emotionally. I was used to being ignored and looking out always to take care of everyone else first and foremost, so for someone who's whole life motto is "hey it is all about me not you people" of course he'd target someone like me. I would not have been someone raised with healthy attention and affection who then NEEDED that to be happy. I would not have been whining at him to act more normal, loving, see?
The narcissistic types are very good at acting like they love their children, because they do know how they should feel and be and act, The problem is that they don't feel the way normal people feel. and inside they hate it when they see you feeling wholesome joy because they can't feel it, ever. They'll kill your joy however they can, usually with a sting that will make you dread holidays afterward. If you find that he's constantly ruining any scrap of happiness you find, if every birthday he acts out and ruins something, (but of course then tries to make you believe it's your fault) then you are dealing with a level of selfishness it is hard for you to comprehend. The pain he'll put you through is torturous and all the while he will tell you he is sorry, or he'll change, but he won't. He'll only do enough to reel you back in so he can lull you into a sense of progress...and wait til you are nearing happy again...then WHAM you'll catch him cheating. Best thing you can do is see a therapist, regularly, and keep that to yourself and tell them the truth about everything. Journal things from now on (hiding your journals as of they were treasure) because that way you will learn to trust your own instincts, your memory of arguments etc. He on't be able to use your very sensitive emotions to keep you up and down and sad and frustrated, basically unstable...which is how he 'll try to keep you because it makes his deceptions in his life easier.. Love yourself, you deserve it, the fact parents sucked does not mean we suck, honey. Stand u for yourself s you would if any man treated your daughter badly. She looks to you to figure out how to b an adult in this world so be what you wish your mom had been as much as you can.
Thank you. I will admit, my impression of BPD has changed for the better. You’ve humanized this and i think I have a lot more compassion for individuals with personality disorders now.
I would love to speak to this woman. She doesn't sugar coat anything. I wish i had an oppurtunity for someone to dig this deep
This therapist really surprised me many times in the course of this interview!
When you grow up in that environment you learn to walk on eggshells and your whole life is about not upsetting someone or feeling like you have no control over what about you is going to set someone off. You are so used to an abuse cycle and the constant adrenalin of fear...buy back and love that is never easily given or nonconditional...everything is conditional. You are not taught how to have a healthy non codependent relationship. Drama is all we know. Expression of extreme emotions like anger are learnt behaviours. When you are free from the cycle...there is nothing worse than realising you recreate this pattern with anyone key in your life. You have an inate need to have approval but an intense feeling that you will never be good enough. BPD people have learnt early on how to read people and tones, energies and mood...we are hyper sensitive to tension and unhappiness and disappointment. To a normal person it seems like we overthink and dramatise everything...but we just feel it all and our defenses kick in to protect ourselves from the hurt or rejection we know is coming. We have such high expectations of ourselves because we were taught that everything we do, say, is the cause of another person's reactions. That's a massive weight. We also pass that expectation onto other people when we are stressed...and push people away...we don't want to be the way we are but we also know that we are unique and care in ways most people don't. Its a roller-coaster and and realising that you can't control other people or their feelings is a massive learning curve that takes a long time.
Spot on.
This nailed exactly how I feel. Makes me feel a little less alone.
That explanation was perfect. Nice to know I’m not alone
The slap in the face is when you grow up and you were accused of making your abuser walk on eggshells as a kid after having experienced ALL of this completely alone. You are told things didn't happen from your childhood (gaslighting), how you feel and think and over all you are still invalidated repeatedly until you learn how to walk away or let go of the relationship that was built on a life long foundation of instability and insecure/ attachment. Where you likely learned to detach, disassociate and avoid.
Whoah. That's me to a T. And very helpful. Thank you.
I can relate to almost everything this woman has experienced and is going through. I had a father who was the equivalent of her mother and was forced to suppress my emotions. I find it hard to manage my emotions and keep relationships. I also experience social anxiety in almost every interaction, even with friends and family. But, like her, with age I'm getting a little better.
Lol i have the opposite of social anxiety
This is a really good therapist...& I really appreciate this series on BDP.. But I really 💖 this therapist & I feel like she naturally helps the client open up & she is very compassionate
I just have to comment this because it’s the first time I’ve heard someone else say it and it makes me feel so relieved (even tho it’s so small). When she said “I have really bad anxiety, even when hanging out with people I know really well and really like” because I’m the same exact fucking way and it’s so annoying. I want to be able to enjoy the time I spend with my friends but the thought of spending time with them turns me into a nervous wreck. It just seems like it would be easier to not have any friends and honestly if I keep not speaking to them or hanging out I’ll probably end up without any so I guess it’ll all work out eventually
I'm the same exact way Sara and I've come to learn that even if I push myself into these most dreaded situations and even though I'm uncomfortable through half of it, I leave feeling accomplished and stronger. I accepted my own personal challenge to myself and was successful just by showing up and not only that but afterward I feel closer to my friends/family and they feel the same about me. I also have a phobia of flying and I have to push myself to fly every time I go visit my family which is even scarier than flying. But after I make it home and I'm alive on the ground I get a huge energy surge from the whole experience.
I hate it I dont like having friends but then I get lonely and get friends only to abuse them with my on again off again relationship leaving them not wanting to be my friend anymore...most of them know about my "weird ways" and that I have to have my "alone time" soon might go weeks or days with out checking in on them ... I pretty much ghost everyone I end up liking or the other way around because I'm a shitty friend
@@ImTJandMJ it doesn’t make you a shitty friend this is just a part of who you are. I think the best thing we can do is when we’re first talking with that new friend tell them “hey btw I really respect people’s space so if we’re talking about something and you don’t text back, that’s just life, we all have things that distract us or need our immediate attention and I won’t take it personally if it takes you days or weeks to text back because I’m a real friend who doesn’t have any expectations of you.” When you say it like that people flip a switch and adopt your ideology because they realize (and this is true) that THEY are in the wrong for placing expectations on friends their entire lives, they shouldn’t expect just bc they decide they want to be friends with someone that that person needs to call them everyday or go out with them every weekend, that’s needy of THEM, that’s a trait they need to work on. I can’t tell you how many times I gave someone my number, they didn’t respond during a convo and then came back to it the next day saying ‘sorry I passed out ….’ I always respond with “don’t ever apologize for not texting someone back, unless it was something urgent you shouldn’t feel sorry for simply not responding bc if everyone sat there and responded to everything you’d live your entire life doing that, we all have things going on, you should never feel sorry for that. If you don’t respond to me I’ll assume you’ll respond when it’s the best time for you & I’m okay with that.” That sets the standard that hey If I too don’t text back for weeks, don’t take it personally.
I have 3 best friends and all of them have grown into that over time, one of them never really cared for me but we were in the same friend group and she would call me all the time and I would just not respond until she understood the level of communication I wanted to have with her is minimal that means when we talk we talk about life and philosophy, not about what she ate that day. I stood by as her friends abandoned her, then her new friends came in and I barely heard from her, then those ones abandoned her. And it’s bc she’s needy, she needs validation from people every day about how shes feeling what shes wearing etc. the cool thing is I got to be there to witness her transformation of growing out of that and into being more independent and it was beautiful and she calls me her best friend now which was never the case before because the distance made her uncomfortable and it didnt validate our friendship everyday. My other 2 best friends started off very similar, one of them I went a whole year without calling back and when I finally did and told her I’m climbing out of a depressive hole she understood and was there for me and I think that understanding came about because I established that in the very beginning, when you’re understanding of others and you respect their space and choices then the right ones will reflect that back to you. But it’s all about how you communicate, if you tell them you couldn’t talk for a month bc you’re angry they won’t understand and they’ll probably see that as a red flag, and that may have been the truth but you were only angry for that long because you were obsessively contemplating something that you reacted to with anger. That’s not blind rage, blind rage doesn’t last that long, it’s more philosophical than that. So if you’re tempted to say ‘I’m like this bc I’m angry or bc I have BPD’ instead make it something relatable like the root of it, the truth, I needed that time to reflect, or to figure out why B = C or you were reassessing your values, etc. how you word it is important because if you want connection you can separate yourself from them in the sense that “I have bpd and they don’t” because they can relate to problems or contemplation they may not be able to relate to BPD fully but when you tell them further down the road that it’s something you happen to have they will be shocked and if they’re your best friend they’ll take the time to research BPD so they can give you the same level of understanding that you have always shown them. Just don’t judge them (at least not to their faces) and let them go if they’re not your cup of tea, but keep the ones who reflect high levels of understanding, be tolerant of their mistakes, respect their choices, NEVER have expectations/requirements for your friends and you’ll have friends for life that you don’t have to talk to when you don’t want to or when you shouldn’t. When I’m in my negatively charged moods I stay away from people because I know what can happen if I get triggered & I’m no good for anyone in my negativity because others can’t pull me out of it.
The Therapist is so patient with her she’s good.
I really like and respect this therapist. And Charlotte: you're a lovely human being.
In my family we were always trying to keep from upsetting my Dad or older brother. It sucked.
What a lovely therapist!
She's very emotionally intelligent and I would love to hear more from her
I like Dr Choi-Kain, very open, honest, and most of all pragmatic.. nice!
This was really fascinating. I don't have BPD, but do have PTSD. In terms of getting emotions out, I find that being in a gymnastics class twice a week is really helpful. This is because it's a full body thing.....physically running and crashing onto mats, using strength to hold myself upside down or up on the bars, etc. If I'm angry, I can run hard to the spring board, then do a handstand to flatback onto a large squishy mat....gets that energy and aggression out.
CPTSD look it up
I relate so much to this woman. I have about 20 phones and laptops in the closet that I have broken. I don't break things anymore, knock on wood, but the potential is always there. I'm always holding back when I have an uncomfortable emotion, in order to spare the other person. I'm learning to feel the emotions instead of holding them all back. I know it's going to be a long road to recovery but I also know it's possible. I'm 51 years old and I was diagnosed when I was 50. I finally know a way to live without confusion and pain. Thank you to this wonderful woman who shares so much about herself. I've gained so much insight into myself from this video.
Having a mother with BPD is SO traumatic. Add to that the genetic component, it is almost a self perpetuating personality disorder than becomes a part of families.
That breaks my heart bc I fear every day that I'm hurting my babies and constantly try to be good enough to not think they'd be better off without me ☹️
Sorry you had to go through that. Having gone through that myself growing up, I can only do the work to do better for my son. I already noticed so many differences between myself and my mother. I do a lot of the painful work, facing things I might normally avoid. Having a kid forces you to face your own issues. Also being a lot older than my mother when she had me, makes a lot of difference in terms of life experience and having the opportunity to work on things.
Though what you say is obviously valid, I feel for some of us borderlines, we can and will do better and even go on to be good mothers. I will take everything I experienced growing up and use that to parent in what not to do. That kind of painful and lonely childhood and assaults on self-esteem, I don't wish upon anyone. Such a horrible existence and sometimes I can't believe I survived long enough to even be able to get to this point in life.
It's scary being a mom, my son motivates me when nothing else can. Would have loved to have a huge family with multiple kids but I am just grateful to be able to experience being a mom who is nurturing, loving and empathic unlike what I experienced. My kid will be able to come to me for support and actually feel heard and it's not all about me. He gets to be the kid and since I was parentified young I know the pain that comes with putting that burden on a child.
@Pat Gonzo I'm out of a marriage of 20 years where my wife was diagnosed with BPD its been 3 years now but I'm still recovering. What makes it even worse is that I had to leave children which broke my heart. The court/divorce process was horrendous. My 3 children are teenagers and I see some of my wife's traits with my eldest daughter (19). She has almost groomed them into making out that I was/am the problem. I now have to patiently wait while they mature and hopefully see her for what she really is, hopefully they wont be to far gone (damaged) by that time.
@@heythere6486 Very similar and relatable.
My father had BPD and it was incredibly traumatic. Now that I have it I understand that he also had NPD. Throw in some narcissistic traits and you’ll really guarantee you child will also develop BPD.
WOW!!!!!!!! watching this video, the therapist was just there doing a good job when it comes to validation, emotions, reflective listening, feedback. I'm learning how to become an AOD counselor and just been watching lots of UA-cam videos, and wow she's amazing!
Wow, she is an intelligent, wonderful person. I don't want this pain for her, and I can relate to every word she says. She has a hard time with people because 99% of them suck!!! Sending all my good thoughts and love to her.
Haven’t been too psycho therapy in so long. Answered all the questions on my end as a free therapy session. Probably one of the best I’ve had 😅😅
As a therapist watching, I enjoyed Lois’s style and relate to it as similar to mine. This was a great interview and I wish Charlotte well.
I deflect all compliments because like the woman said “I know me” but, what I think we really mean when we say that, is that we’re comparing the one nice thing we’ve just heard and judging it against the sum total history of everything bad we’ve ever done. It’s as though there’s an unpayable debt of flaws and no compliment can erase it or mitigate it. So, it’s not that we don’t want to acknowledge the kindness, but we feel we “know too much” to the contrary to really endorse a high-five. These videos are wildly helpful and I’m grateful that they were made.
Self worth when we find it is empowerment.
I can't take compliments from anyone unless they fit with the narrative I've created about myself. I think I have very good handwriting, for example, so I can actually be happy to hear someone acknowledge that and thank them for it. On the other hand, I get really uncomfortable and deflect if anyone says I'm a good guy or that I did a good job on something, because deep down, I view myself as an evil, lazy, fat sack of shit hahaha. (Not funny, I know, but I've developed a really dark sense of sarcastic and self-deprecating humor as a defense mechanism against life on top of everything.)
@@SxTxD_KY I relate to everything you wrote.
This is a really neat video. Props to the client and therapist to have the courage to share this session, and props to Rebbie for this project as a whole. 🙂👏🏻
Thx, Caleb. Always appreciate your props and support
@@BorderlinerNotes bothered by the "this one is for free" comment.
I want to thank Charlotte for being so vulnerable & open. She is 100% correct- her doing these videos validated my experience & I am grateful for that immesaurably
“Toodles” so funny and cute. She is a sweet soul who will get to where she wants to be. And what a great therapist.
She's a damn good therapist.
This is the best therapy session I've seen on youtube.
I like this concept on youtube, but this is not a very effective therapy session
This literally made me tear-up. The compassion...and allowing...with no less discovery and progress. Excellent therapy.
My heart goes out to this woman...
Thanks for being so brave...I also have BPD or have tendencies towards BPD aspects in my emotions or personality. Grateful for this interview. God..grant me a shell for my self judgement 🐚 🐢
No you don't. Your insight is counter to the diagnosis. You may be emotionally "fragile" at times, but this does not mean you are BPD
This is very informative. Love this therapist! Charlotte is a lovely girl. She also has that other side. My ex GF is very lovely, giving, sweet, generous, hard working but as Charlotte described that monster comes out. My ex partner was the same. Also, any conversation my ex didn’t like, she’d become incredibly frustrated. I’m glad the therapist mentioned that for the long haul, one can’t get frustrated by topics they don’t like. Wish my ex could watch this.
You are very brave, Charlie! You seem to have tremendous awareness of your vulnerabilities. It is obvious that your rage stems from your extremely painful childhood. I truly believe that deep healing it’s possible. I wish you all the best!
That was very interesting. Would love to see more interviews like these with real patients on cluster B.
Duly noted.
@@BorderlinerNotes e.g. narcissists. i know its hard to find one, but it would be extremly interesting
Hard, but not impossible. We are, in thinking already, on that case and glad to know it's soemthing that might be of interest. Pandemic makes live filming challenging, so hoping to be able to do this by summer.
@@BorderlinerNotes its very interesting because A) there is no video like this with a real trained therapist interviewing the narcissist B) the video and audio quality is really good. So yes alot of people would watch it
@@tim265 Again, agreed. We are filmmakers, by trade, and psych nerds and have thus opted to combine the two...
She spoke to 2 different therapist in the same day !? Wow . I give her sooooo much props for this
i just adore this client. as a therapist borderline patients are quickly becoming my area of specialized interest because i find them so relatable and so misunderstood. 💕
Misunderstood: hard to relate to someone who blames you for every bad thing in their life no matter what you do for them. And they always refuse to go.
@@johnnycarson67 Good job ignoring all established science in favor of your bitter bias.
Amazing. this Dr. is in her right field. She is on point. Compassionate. Understanding and interacts very well with the pt.
She is perfect for her field. Some people are just born therapists, some are not.
This psychotherapist has a gift
26:45 this kind of exchange it was what was missing with Dr. Jacobs - rapport, connection and validation! No hate to her though, but you can see why she felt more connected to this therapist.
I admire the therapist
Such insightful, elegant women. Thanks
This is incredible. Brave individuals and resources like this video are changing everything.
Can we just appreciate the Doctor 👩⚕️ she is fantastic. The way she allows her client open up, express her self without judging her. Carl Rogers well done 👍🏾
"Fear of having pride in yourself". Now that's another topic I'd love to explore.
😂😭 the struggle of trying to exist in the world & being yourself lol. Thank you for this.
With you. The struggle is....
i like the interviewee challenging the doctor with the breaking bit... its like a small tilt to not be bullshitting someone who has been through so much of the doctored work that shes experienced.
i preferred cursing loudly in my garage when i'm frustrated if im working on a big generator that wont seem to work properly. Those things pissed me off big time, lol. So glad i never acted out physically, that kind of thing you cannot take back.
As we get older I think we have better emotional regulation.
When I was a kid I turned my bpd inwards. My mom was physically and emotionally abusive and i internalized that, making everything my fault. I hated myself and would self harm or attempt suicide. As i developed relationships (I never had friends until I was nearly in college) I became more erratic and hostile and aggressive. Like I just got friends you are NOT leaving me. I finally have friends, I cannot tolerate the idea of you leaving me.
Add to it the continued abuse at home. I felt I deserved better. My mom had always been right in my eyes as a child. Everything she did was right. I didnt like it at all times, but she could do no wrong because she told me she couldn't. Religious trauma in that sense. But by the time I was an adult I realize that she was wrong. She was wrong all the time. And I became less self loathing and more hostile during arguments. When I would internalize everything she would escalate, if I yelled back she would escalate. So I started hitting back. Throwing things, having tantrums. As a 20 year old.
I feel like my emotional regulation and maturity regressed. Like I was so put together when I was younger and now as an adult I am far more petulant. I'm aware of how I feel emotionally and I have maybe 1 sentence where I can say "I need you to stop x" before I go into a violent rage. Idk what happened
The fidgeting hands and fingernail jabbing is a very telling early indicator.
Not searching for thoughts, searching for the "right" thoughts. Only pointing this out for the viewers. Not trying to insult. I have a lot of respect for you for agreeing to share this real moment.
Early indicator for what???
@@refreshingAnd for anxiety. I don't think you can see it as an indicator for BPD. People with BPD may do it because they feel anxious or restless too.
I agree with what you're saying about the fidgeting but combined with the jamming fingernails into the skin typically points to bpd or similar. It is a subtle form of self harm. Inflicting pain to soothe and reduce anxiety is rather exclusive to a small group.
@@chrisehlen7172 yep I do this all the time with my hands. Can you elaborate about searching for the right thoughts part of the comment?
I have so much in common with this young lady. I’m so glad someone is willing to shine a light on this issue.
What a beautiful, compassionate session! I’m so glad to see this interaction as a contrast to the other on this channel. Dr. Lois brings so much humanity and warmth to the session 👏🏼
Charlotte is an absolutely lovely human being.
Watching the interaction between Charlotte and the therapist, I believe that if there was a way for them to continue together would be very helpful and therapeutic for Charlotte.
wow I saw my self in her alot. god i hate having bpd and social anxiety i just hate it all. i wish i could just hide forever until its all over oh wait im already doing this hiding but it isn't over yet!!
This woman reveals so much about herself. Yet, she seems guarded and anxious.
I've gotten so much worse with age. I've had bpd most of my life and can't relate to this.
Both young women and therapist are very brave. Thank you to both of you.
The mind is intricate and fragile. Brilliant display of connection and exploration
BEAUTIFUL and tragic and so well put together, such a competent client to share how she feels, and what she wants in life.
This woman lives at a million miles per hour. Must be exhausting for her.
I was recently diagnosed with BPD and disorganized attachment style. I really got a lot out of this video. This all makes so much sense to me now. Thank you for doing this
Staying away from the drugs and alcohol would be a good start. She seems to be an intelligent person. Life is weird.
This was therapeutic to watch. I relate to this woman so much. Thank you very much for sharing!
I enjoyed this so much. Such a beautiful exchange between client and therapist. I hope this woman realizes how brave and likable she is. I can only imagine her friends would be so compassionate if they knew she had anxiety around them as she has such a likable and intelligient personality. The therapist is excellent at being human, professional, and laser like in her listening and questions. Beautiful to see this, thank you.