Catfishing Needs to Ban This
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Forward facing sonar, also known as Livescope, is a type of highly advanced fishfinder technology that many believe can make catching fish easy to the point of being unfair. The forward facing sonar technology has changed the fish are caught in the bass tournament world and also in crappie fishing tournaments. Any fish that is caught by a lure can be caught easier by fishermen that have masted this technology. Lowrance, Garmin, and Humminbird all have their version of forward facing sonar that angler are utilizing to catch more fish. In the bass fishing community many anglers are calling for a ban on forward facing sonar. At this stage in the game, banning forward facing sonar would change the bass fishing industry dramatically.
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#forwardfacingsonar
#livescope
#islivescopebad
older fisherman are more pleased when they catch fish with what mother nature gave them brains wit and know how.
I'm 60 years old and fished for 58 years without it, I have It and IT'S NO BODY'S BUSINESS WHAT I USE OR DON'T USE
This is why I like surf fishing, no bass boats, no live scopes, it’s just you vs the fish/sea.
@@chuckfinley3152 ❤️
Surf fishing is very fun and can be very productive. Especially if you follow migrations and habits of environmental changes.
Love the springtine pompano run before the crowds show up. Pulling a decent shark in will scatter the casual beach swimmers though lol
@@chuckfinley3152 until someone throws a freaking drone to drop bait way out and look for fish in the mix. But I mean I guess you could call that sight fishing
It’s not just the electronic equipments that created more and more fishing pressure, the UA-camrs and the podcasters who promote fishing have their fair share of contributions too.
Poor man fish finder ,,,,
I use a half gallon mason jar with about a dozen minnows in it as a fish finder ....
Poke holes in the top , tie some string around the jar , put in the minnows ....
Submerge the jar about 3 ft below the dock/boat ....
You've created a bait ball and that naturally triggers a feeding frenzy ....
Works really well for crappie , walleye and other fish eating fish !!!!
Hope this helps ....
Fish on and keep em wet !!!!
Justin from Kayak Catfish has at least a couple videos where he's literally jigging up catfish using Livescope. As the technology gets better and better, the calls for regulation are only gonna get louder.
I'm a 60 year old livescoper here. I fished an overnight catfishing tournament a couple of weeks ago. I found fish on rock piles prefishing in the daytime. Pulled up in the dark and hit spot lock. It didn't take more than 10 mins. to figure out on anchor, that the fish moved out at night. If I didn't have livescope, I would have wasted a bunch of time on anchor. I've been catching fish on this spot for a couple of months. One thing livescope has taught me, was how much fish move around....it's crazy watching catfishing swimming around while crappie fishing on trees.
I agree. Im 50 its not just a tool for the young. In catfish its used different though. Bass guys use it non stop and try to land a lure in its mouth. With catfish i use it to identify if its truly a catfish or a different type of fish as catfish eare easy to pick up on Live due to the way they swim.
Once i have identified the catfish presence i briadcast baits as i normally would.
Dieter, first time responder. 68 years old. Love to catfish. Love your podcasts and your videos. I could not agree more regarding FFS. In some respects people who use FFS are not unlike those who shock up fish or use explosives to fish. If this continues, and it likely will, fishing for the big ones will become a richer man’s sport. I hate to see that. I have cat fished all of my life. As a kid all I could afford was a cheap pole/ reel, hooks, homemade sinkers and a bucket of bait. I had a blast. Having said this, I wonder if our forefathers felt the same about depth/ fish finders. Keep on preaching brother,
Dieter, as always, great perspective. I'm a bank fisherman, but two years ago some friends and I went icefishing with a guide who used a livescope to locate fish. Funny thing was that a front had rolled in and put the fish in a negative feeding mood. No amount of technology could make them bite! I'm 74 and fish for fun. Even years ago, when I owned a boat, I used my Hummingbird to tell me how deep I was fishing and to help keep me on structure. Still, it was up to me to use my skills as an angler to catch fish.
FFS might just be the tool used to find the next world record Blue or Flathead catfish out there.
I believe that ffs should be banned from tournaments. Last bass tournament I fished. Looking at everyone's rigs. It's starting to look like a money game not a sport. There were guys with basic equipment competing with guys with thousands in equipment on 100k rigs.
Not even worth putting the entry fees down to enter a tournament without it anymore, sad
I hear ya. Even the boats are more advanced and faster with bigger motors than some have. If they want to ban just some electronics they also need to make everyone have the same size motors so nobody can get to the good spots faster than others. In fact they need to do away with the use of any electronics. Then we find out who is better at fishing or has the better luck.
I can give you first hand verifiable effects of FFS. My state owns 2 dozen lakes. They manage these lakes and keep records of all fish leaving the lake. Length weight etc. I work for the state and manage one of these lakes. We keep extensive records daily and also do surveys on the water. For the last 68yrs the lake I manage had an average of 22 to 25 lbs per acre of fish harvested. In the last 3 years as FFS is getting more and more common this has grown to 50 to 54lbs per acre harvested. With fewer daily visitors the harvest rate has more than doubled. This is with crappie bass catfish redear and bluegill. I started keeping record of whether they used FFS or not when I do their paperwork and the difference is HUGE. It used to be just bass fishermen who for the most part catch and release. But now the crappie and catfish are in on the game and its made a huge difference in our lake. To the point there are talks of creel limits being lowered for the first time in history of the lake and at a time when the number of people fishing the lake is at an all time low.
It was invented for crAppie to begin with. Bass fisherman took a few years to catch on to it
Yep, some lakes near me have no limit creels for crappie, I bet that doesn't last much longer with ffs
But yeah. To me when you use live scope or whatever you wanna call it you’ve basically quit fishing and to me in my opinion you’ve started to play a video game instead of fishing.
I would love to use it when taking family fishing. I'm usually fishing alone because my family doesn't have the patience, which is great most of the time but I'd like them to enjoy it as well I'll use anything to make it easier on those days. But I can't afford a good system so it doesn't matter anyway
@@stevenwilson8718 oh I’d love to get one to take my daughter fishing. She can’t stand on the bank for more than 30 minutes and she’s done. So I definitely see it being useful I won’t deny that. But I see where it takes the sport out of it at a point
@@stevenwilson8718 but like you said. I can’t afford one either lol
Agreed! My kayak only has a garmin strike 4 vivid but really for just depth and temperature
Yeah, sure wish I could afford it.
I am purely a pleasure fisherman, The use of FFS I believe is disgusting!! What happened to fishing being a sport? Using your knowledge, instincts, and wit to catch a few fish? This
reminds me of cheating scandal with University of Michigan video taping and deciphering signals sent in by opposing teams. They call that cheating and it makes their recent
national championship totally irrelevant and a farse. Anyone can look good as long as they know what play is coming next!! Same situation in the Bass fishing world. How about protecting
our irreplaceable natural resources for a change!! Maybe one of us amateur fisherman will have a better chance to catch their personal best and make a memory that lasts the rest of their
life. I watch alot of youtube because I'm trying to become a better fisherman, Thank you Dieter for helping all of us become better fisherpeople and all the other utubers who contribute to our
knowledge and techniques. Life is short a great day on the water can be a comforting memory for many who can no longer participate due to health or age related problems. I wish all of you great experiences on the water.
I really don't know I just feel like it takes all of challenge out of fishing thank you for the information
I am in my 60's and got a LiveScope setup 2 years ago.
I fish for catfish and carp.
I have about $1500 in my setup by buying "last years models" from Garmin.
It has been a learning curve for sure.
In 2 years i have actively targeted and caught one channel cat, and that took an hour.
Now, will say it is a game changer to know there are fish where you are fishing, but it also teaches you how bad you are at fishing!
I do not fish tournaments.
This is a hobby for me.
As technology advances, there may need to be adjusted creel limits.
The answer is obvious. Clearly the fish are going to have to develop and employ stealth technology.
This is why I never got into the tournament scene. I fish for pleasure. I go alone, no electronic entertainment or any other distractions. When I'm not doing anything, I sit and watch nature go by. Some days the catfish win, other days I win. This is meditation for me. I use a depth finder on my kayak, but that is the extent of my scope usage.
I have a friend that bought a livescope setup. He told me it only shows him how many fish he doesn't catch, LOL.
I remember when side scan hit the market and everyone was going crazy about how unfair it was. I think it’s just a step forward in things.
Where do you draw the line on electronics? Depth finders, fish finders,etc. It is like the arguments about traditional vs compound vs crossbow. Should it be all or none? 🇺🇸
I can see it being broken up more to meet the demands.
I can't spotlight deer, but I can still take deer using legal methods.
I agree, where is the line? Spot lock eliminates anchors, trolling a track eliminates driving the boat. If it was $200 everyone would have it and no one would complain.
@catlifeoutdoors6369 I have found that spotlock is far more valuable than Livescope for my fishing.
Im primarily a bank fisherman so the most advanced technology I would us is maybe one of the sonar bobbers to find structure and deep holes.
What are those??
@@haroldsfishingadventures754 it's essentially a giant bobber that have a sonar that you connect to your phone or a device that it may come with depending on brand that you cast out on your ros and it will actually show you the depth and structure near the bottom of rivers or lakes. They are kinda pricey depending on brand so do your research before you invest
I bought the Garmin Sonar Bobber for my Daughter, its basically like a old school boat mounted fishfinder that bluetooths to your phone, has a flasher too, we mainly use it to just see if the fish are there, the depth, and temp, doesnt really ID and pinpoint fish like live scope does. Doesnt work as well in strong curent, still so cool for bank fisherman though
My fishing partner has a forward scope and we have mostly used it to find schools of shad and target them for netting. It's a great team effort as one mans the camera and finds the fish and points them out and the other tosses the net. It is very cool to watch the net go down and trap the fish in the net in real time.
Never anything wrong with enjoy different kinds of fishing. When I’m not catfishing I’m crappie or trout fishing. It’s all for fun
I don't think commercial or private should be able to use it. Need to be outlawed
This is the exact reason that keeps me from the whole tournament investment.
And now the crappie fishermen just encircle the schools like a flock of pelicans.
I think you nailed it: current (older) generation people will fight/resist it, but as the younger generation people will make it more common as they become the industry leaders.
Should not be used in tournaments no
AND the fish population disappears.
Oddly all the older guys I know have livescope
I fish reelfoot lake Tn a lot, the past 2 years during the crappie tournament every one fished a live scope of some type, all bunched up together, heads down not paying attention, I was spider rigging 8 poles, with just a garmin side vue clear vue and caught more fish than boats in the tournament. I should have entered 😂
We are all ready dealing with it in my area in catfish tournaments
Sounds like high fence hunting only in water.
I used to be an avid squirrel hunter. They came up with a little device called a squirrel whistle. One day I saw a squirrel across the street. From an open window I started to use the whistle. Before I was done I had the squirrel at my window. That absolutely showed me that it worked. I took it to the woods and had the same result. I noticed all the harvested animals were female. At that point I quit using it. The old saying is you have to save some for seed. It’s the same in fishing. It’s not about the kill or the catch. It’s about time in the great outdoors that we love. Technology is fine but we are all stewards of the land. Always accept that responsibility. Our great outdoors depends on it.
One big problem is that not everyone has the same beliefs about conservation as you. I’ve seen firsthand the abuse of the technology from a pontoon boat just keeping everything they caught. Overfishing is always going to happen and barotrauma is possible or those big fish dying from a hard fight. But the genie is out of the bottle now there’s no going back
I fished a kayak bass tourney this year. While putting in there was another guy next to me. I asked which direction he wanted to go and I’d go the other. He said he was going to be “scouting” and I wouldn’t be in his way. Before the sun was up he had caught 2 in open water right off the ramp. He was using ffs. I realized right then I was wasting my time that day. I was pitching cypress trees, docks, lay downs, etc. He was peddling around in open water targeting what he saw on ffs.
So lame
So you're mad that ffs is teaching us more about movement and patterns?
@@jesse11111are you a marine biologist collecting data or something? lol
@@michaelg8642 no? I like to fish and I try to understand where the fish are at so at least I know I'm not throwing bait at nothing.
I think all these new technologies are taking the sport out of fishing. Inmo. I like to fish for everything. Flathead catfish are 1, then panfish. It's always a blast when I hook in a big catfish when fishing for panfish. Great video.
I've caught my 2 biggest channels while bluegill fishing on a little #8 gamakatsu circle hook. Whats up with that? Maybe they like peanuts sometimes instead of a huge meal
I fished Okeechobee last week for bluegill and got my limit 3 of 4 days. The forward facing sonar is pretty useless in 2-4' of water. Meanwhile, side imaging shows those beds like a light bulb.
We caught at least 10 catfish each day, 7-8 largemouth, and a couple of 6 pound tilapia, all using red worms with #6 hooks and 4 pound line. The tilapia take about 20 minutes to land with that light tackle.
@haroldsfishingadventures754 cool I landed a few channels in the 15 lb range out crappie fishing using ruby red minnows using a 6lb test. It was super fun!
@jdollar5852 that sounds super fun 😁
I just want the forward sonar to get good enough that I can see what obstacles that are 200 feet in front of me at 30 mph. To hell with the fishing aspect of it, the more better electronics I get the less fish I catch 😂
I agree. They need to develop prop saving technology. Rivers are getting more junk at the bottom.
Im highly opposed to it when people are using it to snag fish. I've seen several videos that people are using it to snag spoon bill catfish. I don't believe it should be legal to snag fish.
Dino comment: It's been downhill ever since money got involved in tournaments. And really, ever since contests have been conducted. I find myself fishing smaller and smaller water just to not get run over by all the speed demons. On the positive side, I fish for my own pleasure and to what I feel is "fair chase", much as you have described is your way. One possible compromise I could see working is to do like the trophy hunting world: no hunting on the same day you fly. In this case, no sonar on tournament days. Personally I would love to see them outlawed for fishing at all.
I'm 18 and don't need no boat no fancy live scope and for that matter a fully intact pole to catch catfish. Just find we're the water gets deep and throw out a sinker, hook and worm.
LOVE IT!! Go get ‘em!!!
Agree with your thoughts. I am 65 yr old and learned to read maps figure patterns. If you allow this go on in tournaments it has and will destroy fishing. You are right others sports have created rules to keep the game tradional. I look at the boat ramp just a few weeks ago and it has became a sport of who has the best electronics. I crappie fished for years and have watched our lake get enolated from quality fish. Kids think they are now truly pros and don't mind telling you they are better than the old pros before them.
Excellent - well said. There is the safety concern that i believe is being over looked. I have talked to a couple people from these bass tournaments. There are people running down the lake at 60 + mph with their face behind 2 - 4 graphs usually 16 inch in size. No care in the world about anyone or anything except whats on that graph.
The technology is great - my opinion should NOT be allowed to WIN money !!!!!!!!!
I'm an auto mechanic by trade. So I grew up having to learn how & what makes a car tick. Points - plugs - timing - valve adjustment - jetting of the carb - choke adjustment. The current term is - Auto Tech. They don't need to know much about vehicles now because a computer tells them what to replace. On that point - replace is about all these techs do. No fixing or repairing needed.
Don't get me wrong - fuel injection is very nice - especially in the winter.
Technology is wonderful - Tho it takes away from the learning ( knowledge ) we should all strive for in our field of desired job or hobby ( one must learn the basics first )
I watch Randy's channel - I believe he has very strong points on this subject.
Thank you for what you do - excellent video as always. Have a good weekend - If ever in N. Central Arkansas - give me shout !!!
I also think that folks who are hard core against it for the most part haven’t used it. IT IS an advantage to have it. Just like it is an advantage to have side scan.
BTW, I am 71 years old and have 3 full years of experience with FFS on my boat. Love it. It does increase my catch rate on all species of fish. But it increases the number of fish that I release by the same amount. I take no more fish home now than I did 20 years ago.
My thought on this remains the same on every video I’ve seen on it. When Hank Bill Roland Jimmy and all were young and first started using flashers they learned quickly how to “see” fish and structure. The other adapted also. Then comes a printer that hooked to it to “record” data. They learned and used it. Then digital finders hit. Same song and dance. These tools are gonna ruin the “sport” of fishing. BASS way back bought rangers and fitted them out with all the same equipment for each angler at the lake to “level” the field. So maybe if some have FFS and others don’t the the tournaments should start supplying each participant the exact same boat with exact same equipment and “level” the field. Maybe let each angler choose a brand of FFS he wants.
I deep sea fish and fish all species of fresh water. Catfish are just my favorite because of the fight and I think they are cute.
I'm catch n realase fisherman helps if you're looking for fish big cats etc however in tournaments leave it up them to decide if it was used everyone would or mostly could
I get the feeling a lot of detractors haven't used it. It's application in catfishing really would be pretty limited. It is amazing for crappie fishing, though. I had no idea just how many crappie were out there until livescope.
And just think how many there won't be after...
I grew up on the St. John River bass fishing is way of life for me. I can remember when fishfinders came out and as they got better, people were saying basically the same thing although there’s no comparison and the very best fishfinder versus scope sides, the other day I got to thinking about this very same thing use live scope, sides, scan and tournaments so I started looking up top 10 weigh ins And let me tell you I got down a rabbit hole three hours I spent doing this, but what I would learned The weigh ins on average aren’t much different today as a were 5 to 8 years ago obviously you had a better years overall than others, but there is a lot to consider one thing for sure it’s gonna be a hot topic for quite a while and has it changed the way we all look at bass fishing and how humble we are to learn there’s a hell of a lot more fish offshore than we ever could have imagined everything we thought we knew sure got turned on its head
If u hadn't already seen it, u haven't been out!! Kayak catfish, river certified.....a whole lot of guided. I see alot of flathead guys using it. Big advantage if u know which rock to put your bait infront of.
What's ironic is if the guides amd commercial fisherman don't use it responsibly, meaning don't over harvest, will put themselves out of business, or greatly hurt business
Our tour director tour president just banned if for ‘25 tournament season (NPFL)
If im a tournament fisherman and make my living based on my success of fishing you best believe Im going to have every advantage possible. If I showed my grandfather a live-scope device he would say you’re only hindering yourself to not have one. I go to catch fish so anything to increase my chances im for just my subjective opinion.
I am somewhat torn when it comes to FFS, I would love to know "are there crappie under that dock", but that is really the extent I would want it for, "are there fish there"
I just don't understand the videos I see where guys are staring at a screen, one of them is telling the other to raise or lower the bait a foot or two, or move it right or left, and suddenly yells, set the hook, all without ever looking at or touching the rod.
For me personally that is just not "fishing", I enjoy the experience of being out on the water and while I always like to catch something, it was still a good day even if I caught nothing. An Egret, Heron or Eagle flew by, a family of Racoons or a deer walked by on the shore, a water moccasin, Beaver or Alligator swam by the boat. It's all part of the experience 😀
I had one 3 years ago and used it for 2 years on Wylie and Norman. I was made fun off a lot since i had one before most around here did like Lithium batteries. lol. I found them to be useless for catfish. The only thing I found it good for was crappie. You spend so much time looking and not fishing. The other thing was when you pass over fish with sonar they move. I could see where they moved too as far as schools. I was surprised how fast they moved from the boat passing over. It will keep you from fishing it dead water.
I think it would be a good tool to locate active fish in a tournament and then turn off and fish the area blind that way it would still be a useful tool in the tournament but not a complete see what you're fishing for kind of thing. Just an alternative thought.
It's a progression of what has been developed and marketed for the masses to use in their pursuit of fish. Same can be said of other products in other sports. The important thing is how it's regulated and the key is where the line will be drawn. How much technology should be allowed in tournaments? I definitely agree that tournaments need to be regulated so that it's not so much the technology that decides who is going to win, but where will the line be drawn and who will do the drawing.
Will just keep getting better and is not going anywhere to many dollars.
Something more advanced is already in the works no doubt
I use mine to find bait other than that I really don’t use it.
Forward facing sonar? The problem in our area are an over abundance of commercial fishermen. They run hoop nets, trammel nets and trout lines that bring in thousands of pounds of fish within a week. Depleting the pool I fish in and making fishing poor for the sport fisherman who can only use 2 poles at a time and lucky to catch a dozen fish around 2-3 pounds in a day. I have an old$100 depth finder but I mostly fish brush piles and wing dams. A lot times I can just look at the river and know where to fish. Years ago I stopped at a boat ramp along the Missouri river near the town of Chamois and talked to an old fisherman that just pulled up. I told him about the problem of over fishing by commercial fishermen where I fish. He informed me the state of Missouri cut back on the number of commercial fisherman licenses and the fishing vastly improved for the sport fishermen. He proceeded to lift up a claimed 75 pound blue-cat he just caught. We talked for the next half hour and the things you can learn from an old-fisherman!
I could see it being a tournament problem in the way you mentioned crappie tournaments where if you don't have the $$$ for the gear then you're leaving the trailer with a disadvantage.
I'm too broke to buy one but they seem cool to actually see if the area you're in actually has fish at the time you're fishing
In my opinion, I think you might start seeing tournaments that allow the forwarded sonar and tournaments that will only allow just dow and side scanning electronics. Just my opinion. I have a friend who is big in catfishing and has the forwarded facing live scope. But he will use it for Just a little while. Then, when the fish he sees won't bite, he goes back to the basis of anchoring points , structure, dragging, and planner boards.
If we are conservation minded at all, there looms the concept that SOME GEAR IS BAD for the resource. They are already changing limits in some lakes: Grenada for example. All those "sportsmen" using ffs are heavily reducing the famous crappie population there. So, this brings up the question of whether a good fish population benefits the public, the locality and the state, or does the selfish "need" to use BAD GEAR override conservation? To me, BAD GEAR is the obvious choice to eliminate from the equation. I would support angler driven lawsuits to spur states to act against BAD GEAR. Restricting BAD GEAR IS a time honored and scientifically proven way to conserve fish populations.
I to see fishing becoming a video game rather a sport ! Always looking at a screen rather than the beautiful nature and wildlife!
My wife says in a few years all those people will have neck problems along with eye problems!
In tournament fishing there could be a charge for each fish or depth finder , that way if you had one you pay a little , if you have 6 or 8 you pay more !
Let each device be a handicap , that would level the playing field to some extent !
It’s nearly impossible to win fishing without over a boat equipped with thousands dollars of all brands on board !
My wife and I are 85 years old , we crappie fish from October till May throughout east Texas !
Just a little depth sounder on board for depth is all !
We catch fish and enjoy the beautiful nature God has provided !! We don’t even eat fish( haven’t for 70 years ) but we enjoy the out doors !!! Fresh air , sunshine ,quietness !! Just pleasant time in nature !
All scopes have changed that !!! Sad !!!
Gardening with Leon !!
Haha, I said on Tylers Reel Fishing channel if you invest in a ffs unit, you better find a good chiropractor as well
Oh please!
I grew up fiahing in the 70s. We had flashers and 50hp motors.
Old timers said we were taking the fun out of fishing.
Livescope certainly helps me locate fish, but it really doesn't make the fiah bite.
I can use my side imaging on my Humminbird and see fiah on the bed.
Are we going to ban side imaging?
Down imaging?
Every technological advancement leans the scale in our favor.
I personally think that we should ban ALL tournament fishing unless they can guarantee the fiah won't die. Catfish tournament fishermen generally release fish and cats can survive. Bass..not so much.
I'm 62 and just got Livescope this February. This isn't some complex system that requires computer savvy. It takes a couple of days to figure out how to use the system.
I don't think fishermen should be able to troll with 15 rods for crappie. How much fun is that?
I've used Livescope to catfish, but it hasn't helped with big fish. I find the 30 pounders in the same spots I've found them for 40 years.
Here's my take on the tournament trails. It's all about money. Right now people are dumping huge amounts of cash into 5-6 Garmin units, 2 Livescopes, etc, rather than buying $500 custom rods and high dollar baits. That's starting to chafe some folks and they are pushing for change. Maybe they'll go back to 50 hp motors and flashers?
I can certainly see some issues with crappie limits due to Livescope. As you said, you can now target individual fiah suspended out on a flat that you never would have fished for 20 years ago. I know MS has already taken a couple of steps to address the issue. My guess is smaller limits, slot limits, etc, will go into place in a lot of places. Boat limits will probably have more impact than putting more limits on individual fishermen. I rarely catch a limit of crappie and rarely keep more than 10 "filet" fish. I have a neighborhood pond where I can easily catch 50-60 8" crappie any day in the spring. I try to keep our freezer full of whole crappie. That's some fine eating, no limits, and fun to take a kid out.
We all complain about the younger generation not being involved in the outdoors.
I loved it to start with but now not so much. When I started using it there was 4 of us guiding crappie trips on the lake. Now we have 15 plus guides on the lake. Only cure I see to it, is to severely limit creel limit and definitely impose length limits. I love using mine but would not lose any sleep if they did away with it.
I mean, obviously this was coming. With all the you still gotta get em to bite bs, crappie populatiins are being greatly decimated
This. This is the problem. FFS has made guides out of people who couldn't catch a fish otherwise. Boat loads of clients pulling limits, day after day, week after week, and year after year. And more and more "guides" popping up all the time.
@@johnk6206 it's ridiculous. Grenada lake has recently lowered its creel limit on crappies
Live scope is amazing for cast netting bait for catfishing. Takes alot of the time away from catching bait and more time fishing. Other than that I don’t see a real use for it, not the way I catfish anyway!
I can kinda see the benefit for catfishing more in lakes rivers are more obvious to find catfish and maybe that’s because I fish one or two lakes once in a blue moon and there small i know two spots in the one lake to kinda catch them
I use it exclusively for catching bait as it makes it easier and faster so I can get to catfish fishing sooner! I've never targeted or caught a catfish using FFS. However I know it has changed the crappie and bass fishing industry just hoping its not a negative impact cause lots of folks are using it.
Al Lindner has stated it is having a negative impact on Crappie and Musky populations
I can kinda see the benefit for catfishing more in lakes because rivers are more obvious to find catfish then again I very rarely fish lakes
I remember thinking I could catch fish anywhere when I got a set of topographic maps for the state of Ohio ! Alas ,I was a bank fisherman and couldn't reach many of the "prime" fishing holes ! 😢 Electronic devices need to be restricted by tournament hosts IMHO !
This and GPS both need to go in tournament enviroments. Prefishing, too. Get rid of it all for competition.
Full analog, blind fishing only for paychecks.
I don't think it will have as much advantage in the walleye and catfish world. You're already not fishing the front of the boat in those instances.
very thoughtful analysis. i appreciate you talking about fair chase and fairness to the living creature
Here’s the deal I have active target on my bass boat and it is definitely a game changer… I realized after I had I for awhile that I was spending all day staring at that screen … I don’t use my bass boat much anymore, I still owe about 5 more years on it and my boys use it mostly… I mostly fish off the pontoon with either a hook reveal or elite ti… I do think that forward facing sonar should be banned in professional or qualifying tournaments… but just for weekend fishermen that don’t have three days of practice and then 3 days of tournament fishing… it’s a big help to put fish in the boat
Probably a great investment for private charters or guides
I personally feel like it's a good tool for real professional fishermen I don't think any recreational or tournament angler needs it.
@@jakehaas5658 I'll never have one just because the cost is ridiculous. But it would make my wife and kids want to fish with me more. They aren't patient enough to enjoy fishing unless we're in a honey hole
If you’re fishing strictly to put some meat in your freezer by all means use your gadgets 🤷🏾♂️but if you’re out for a nice relaxing day and don’t want just a couple little eaters enjoy the search and relax
They should make like a handicap for fishing tournaments like in bowling
As a younger catfish angler I have learned to use ffs in certain situations as far targeting certain fish. I have also learned more in a couple hundred hours watching fish without lines in that I have in a couple thousand without it. It’s definitely gona be a game changer in a few hundred more hours of playing with it
@DieterMelhornFishing what about the 360? It seems to me like that wouldn’t be far behind the LiveScope
I am fine without electronics, no boat anyway, but I do love reading current and creases, wondering what's down there 🎣💪
Major League Fishing Biologist, Steven Bardin, appeared on a podcast with Matt Wiegemann to discuss this subject. Bardin mentions a peer-reviewed scientific study of crappie fishing using FFS. Two groups of crappie fisherman were studied, those with and those without FFS. Conclusions were that those using FFS found fish faster but that there was statistically no difference between the two groups in terms of average number and size of fish harvested. Pure conjecture on my part (I plan to ask Steven about this), those laying the blame on FFS, don't bat an eyelash at a detrimental practice they employ and promote, namely the targeting of spawning fish. Unquestionably, reproduction is the most critical aspect of maintaining fish populations and is when fish are most vulnerable. Fishermen are taking advantage of the natural behavior of those guarding the nest to remove threats to their roe. Studies show that while bass do eventually return to their bed after being caught, it may take up to 15 minutes for them to do so due to trauma and disorientation. That is more than enough time for predators that consume their roe to decimate a bed. Additionally, fish use so much energy in reproduction, rarely feeding during the spawn, that they are far more susceptible to trauma. Many male bass, caught while guarding their nest, die prematurely as a result of energy spent during the catch. Therefore, "WHEN" fish are caught should be every bit as much a consideration as "HOW". Angling ethics dictate that fish should NOT be targeted during their spawn. Nevertheless, there is increased angling pressure to do just that both at the professional and recreational level. Let the fish alone during their spawn.
"I’m concerned about the younger generation of anglers that are coming into the sport. I’ve watched them; they don’t cast until they see a fish on the screen. Are they learning basic fish-finding skills and using natural instincts that are so critical to becoming a great angler?" Pro Bass Fisherman Gary Clouse. People that rely on this tech too much may find that their natural angling skills diminish
Eventually catfishermen will figure out how to use FFS to their advantage, however I've tried mine several times and just gave up. It's not worth the effort for these fish. I DO use mine to catch shad though, it works great for that. The REAL issue is where do you draw the line? HP limit on your boat? No sonar at all? No sidescan? No 2d? No braided line? No mapping software? No trolling motor or GPS? I'm all for evolution and progression and there are several forms of technology that you "can't win a tournament" unless you have that item. Everyone just needs to chill out a bit and do whatever makes them happy.
I saw a video of a fisherman using live scope to find catfish to cast gulp minnows to and he was catching quite a few.
I saw that. Pretty much all 6-8 lb blues. That wont do anything in a tournament.
It's just another tool so to speak. The same was said about side and down imaging. I've always said people were cheating if they were dragging baits or setting in the boils at the dam during a tournament. Catching fish at the dam or dragging doesn't make you a pro angler.
Well spoken, highly respectful view points.
FYI Mississippi just reduced the limit to 10 on major crappie lakes. The forward facing sonar has helped anglers over fish the lakes.
yeah but we get people from Tn, Ark, Ala, to on top of that. there was a time 3 pounders were plenty. At Arkabutla, Enid, and Grenada. Sardis had the 2.75 all day long. Word got out a bam.
I posted about this in several fb groups and they went off on me lol
Because without it they suck at angling
Watching from Clover SC
It IS like catching fish in a barrel. The only difference is, it's a bigger barrel.
What'll they do next? Ban trolling? The guy I know who catches the most fish in my area does not have a fish finder or a trolling motor. He also eats a lot of the fish he catches.
MS is talking about lowering the crappie creel limits due to the massive amount of fish being taken with ffs. At least on Grenada and a couple others.
Jordan lake is one of the top crappie lakes in the country but I bet that won't last long with ffs
I talked to NUMEROUS guides a couple weeks ago in my area …and NONE would go WITHOUT using live scope….. all i wanted to do was jig fish … i catch all the crappie i want with minnows but i have zero confidence in jigs…. Trying to get my confidence built up…. But they all said oh naw… gotta use scope….
Also, if you're going to go on the "fairness" and "sportsmanship" route with your argument, you need to eliminate barbed hooks and trailing extra hooks from your tournaments/sport as well.
Randy's so ignorant on this stuff he thinks tackle sales are down because of FFS. Dude is completely disconnected from reality, no matter how correct he is on the lack of fairness of the rig for competition.
I agree as far as setting rules for tournaments. But as a whole I think better sonar improves the sport. Think of all the people who tried fishing and gave it up because they couldn’t catch a fish! And ffs is an amazing learning tool for anglers w less experience because they can watch their lure in the water and see action of their lure in real time and learn how to twitch their rod to get different types of action.
Wait until the next phase comes. Ffs is nothing compared to the next progression.
The next progression will be drone sonar. Imagine being able to drop a mini submersible drone in a lake that will operate like a submarine and it will go out and scan the lake and find structures and weed beds and fish all on its own and create instant real time maps that will upload to your sonar mapping.
Imagine dropping a drone in the lake on a Monday morning and coming back on Friday and it has mapped the entire lake and has marked every stump, every rock pole, every weed bed ( w the type of vegetation and the density and height and the amount and type of fish in the weed bed)
Imagine a drone that can go out and find a 10 lbs bass and send you exact location of that fish in real time!!! And be able to follow and track that fish around the lake in a target lock mode!!!
The technology to do this already exists. It’s only a matter of time till a company makes this product.
Imagine being able to program your drone to find walleyes and it hunting them down and sending you the exact location of your target species w sizes of the fish. Hey drone go find me a 75 lb flathead!!! The technology is here!!!
I started golfing when I was eight years old. they sure can make different golf balls that’ll go twice a far
I'm in my 8th decade on this earth so I've witnessed some changes in hunting and fishing. Was a time when you walked a few miles and maybe harvested a deer. Now the animals are shot from unheard of distances by calibers that are ridiculous and an ATV of some type got the so called hunter into the field. Fishing is going the same direction. I began fishing with a cane pole, yellow cord and one or two hooks that weren't specie specific. Today I have a carbon fishing rods, reels with zillions of ball bearings that almost casts itself. I have bass hooks, walleye hooks, panfish hooks and several sizes and shapes within each specie class. I have a couple of small fish locators, eight fishing rods and I don't know how many lures and what do I grab to take the grandkids fishing, my old true temper rods with, ocean city reels, a can ow worms and a few size 4 and 6 hooks. We come home with a pail of sunnies, a few perch, threw back the bullheads but kept that two pound channel cat cause that's good eatin'. And that afternoon spent with the grandkids, laughing and catching fish, priceless. Give man enough time and he'll find the way to ruin his sport, ain't no doubt about it.
"editing suite"...OOOh, fancy. But seriously, don't like it for tournaments. Have you ever watched the TV show "Drain the Oceans"? They use the latest greatest sonar to show what real deep wrecks look like. Amazing.
I think that any of the electronics take a lot to learn how to use and only the people that wants to take the time to learn how to use is only the ones who are serious about catching fish
Its tuff for the tournament world. You want high turn out but when you get theses that have 100k and up rigs. It makes it no fun.
I agree the tournament rules need to set a standard for showing a skill.... not your electronics. Maybe it should be broken up to where cover different levels but people seem to run after the money. And that's sad
I do Jug Fishing Tournaments because thats what i like. I watch a lot of rod n reel to pick up tips. But i feel that Jug Fishing Tournaments are more of skill then rod n reel now day's. Just because I have to really think about where to set them and where the fish will be moving thur.
The way i see you fish... is about the same way as me. You look around and find the patern and use your skill. Thats why i watch you the most on UA-cam.
Yes i have a sonar on my boat but use it for depth and structure. Fish move around and i know that. So i have to think about it all to place my Jugs. Because in our tournaments we are limited to just ten jugs per team. Yes we are catch and release also.
My team is my family and thats is what i love.... If we win or if we lose... Its fine we had fun.
FF sonar is a little more advanced than 360 or side imaging or down imaging. I feel if they want to ban it thats ok as long as they ban any kind of electronics that gives fishermen an advantage. That way everyone is at the same level. Now lets talk about how it effects them quantity of the fish species. What about baiting holes and putting brush tops out. I can go into 15 ft of water and throw out soured milo wait about 30 minutes and limit out on catfish. I can have lots of brush tops scattered around and make every one of them and limit out. I don’t need to know how deep to fish because i know how deep the water is and how tall the brush tops are. FF sonar is just another tool to find fish. It doesn’t help you catch them, I don’t care how good of fishermen you are. Sometimes the fish just are not feeding and won’t bite. Either do away with all electronics or none of don’t puck on just one of them
i live in ky and commercial catfish they just came out with new rule this year on all kentucky waters we can only keep one trophy fish of each species per day. which is insane because they consider a 25 inch or 10 lb channel a trophy a 35 inch or 20 lb blue a trophy and a 35 inch or 20 lb flathead a trophy though it goes by length the weight is close to the length avg.. so they want to fine us 150 dollars for each fish we have over limit.. so if they are doing livewells for catfish tournaments i expect the same rules to apply to them.. if they have more then one trophy of each fish in the livewell they should also get fined. which im not sure if they will or not but if they made the laws this way it should and better be applied to catfish tournament anglers also. and all other waterways this better be how it is applied to tournament anglers also.. if not thats bs because in bass fishing you cant just because you are in tournament break any rules by say keeping smaller fish then slot limits ect.even if in livewell and releasing it later, the crazy part we are doing 100 hook lines so they want us to basically measure fish as we doing lines because if they see you put more then 1 big in your tank its considered a keep.. which i dont understand its going to be a pain in the ass and take so much more time now. the crazy thing they have 50 years of data of commercial fishing here and the fishing is thriving so it makes no sense to implement these new rules. to the subject of livescope... its a joke.. all the people complaining about it have used all fishfinders till now and are now deciding they dont want it.. but yet the same ones who used all fish finders before livescope caused it to get made and had no problem using fish finders till now.. thats called hypocrisy and the worst kind.. all my fishing is done with no fish finder.. i only use navionics on my phone to basically mark where i put my commercial gear. randy is a complaining hypocrite.. and for being a pro fisherman he remind me of a rookie. he doesnt know much about fishing and all his complaints are opinion based with no supporting facts.
Where I live at there's a tournament coming up August 17th I don't got no boat but I'm going out there bank fishing and I will see what I catch compared to what the tournament guys catch
Hey just to let you know Mr melhorn I watch your stuff all the time man and I've learned a lot of stuff from you I live in Fayetteville North Carolina and I really appreciate you texting me back man that's pretty cool man
You're like a damn Superstar to me I'm going to let everybody know I got a reply back from you man that's really cool I'm going fishing right now at the PD River maybe I'll catch something if I do I'll see if I can send a picture to you some kind of way if there's any size to it I'm after a big old flat head
You're a really good fisherman and I've learned a lot from you but I think if you're an experienced fishermen and you know the river you don't need no technology
FFS is absolutely not catching fish in a barrel it certainly does help locate fish and cut down on time finding them but it is certainly technique dependent for me. If I am fishing deep water or vertical jigging it does give me the confidence to stay in an area. Just because you see a fish does not mean you catch it, like I mentioned before it gives me confidence to stay in an area and wait for the bite window.