Not Manusmriti, British-caste system in medieval Tamil Nadu solidified after Cholas fell
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- As always with India’s historical debates, the ideological extremes of the Right and Left don’t capture the realities of caste in the past. Every region, every group, had its own version of caste and faced discrimination-or used it to rise in the world. Caste was not just a religious system, it was a sociopolitical one. Anirudh Kanisetti explains using temple inscriptions from medieval South India.
Primary Sources (in order of appearance):
South Indian Inscriptions (SII) volume II, nos. 4 & 5
SII volume VIII, no. 178
SII volume VIII, no. 106
SII volume XVII, no. 603
Annual Reports of South Indian Epigraphy 1918, no. 538
Secondary Sources:
Karashima, Noboru. Ancient to medieval: South Indian society in transition. Oxford University Press, 2010.
Karashima, Noboru, and Y. Subbarayalu. "the emergence of the Periyanadu assembly in south India during the Chola and Pandyan periods." International Journal of Asian Studies 1, no. 1 (2004): 87-103.
Subbarayalu, Y. South India Under the Cholas. New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2012.
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The funny thing is manusmriti to most hindus like us doesn't mean shit , we are civilized enough to understand that the books written in ancient times can have flaws and it can always be reformed . We do accept that untouchability and caste system did great damage to the indian society due to which foreign religion got a foot hold here.
We are for reform we are for reason we are for rationality.
Jai hind
Reason, Rational and reform. Nice ring to your last sentence.
But it was the chief document to legitimise the system
I think this has less to do with rationality and more with how accessible Hindu scriptures were. Up until recently, most Hindus could not and did not read their scriptures (this was something restricted to Brahmins). The manusmriti was not something read by faithful Hindus, but enforced by the kings of ancient India.
caste system makes hinduism worst ..like there are thousands of castes and thousands of subcastes and gotras wtf
@@kartikmore9228 the same philosophy of caste also reflects the treatment of minorities in India. Stereotypes are imposed based on community
The caste system didn't become predominantly influential until the Vijayanagara and Nayakkar periods. The caste system's significant growth and domination occurred during these specific historical eras, rather than earlier
Lol it was their even in times of Buddha. Tf you even talking about
Caste endogamy was the norm by the Gupta period.
@@exoticindiaa he is talking about Thamizh Naadu. In TN, varnashama dharma penetrated very late(after 13th century) unlike the rest of India. We Thamizhs blame the vijayanagara kingdom for it. Some of the Chola kings killed Brahmins(in wars, this is contrary to the beliefs of the rest of india ). Cholas did not accept everything Brahmins said and opposed them and curtailed their powers in some areas(again contrary to the history of rest of india). The clash between some of the Cholas and Brahmins were so high that Brahmins assassinated a next to throne prince named aadithya Karikaalan. After that, His brother became a truly one of the greatest kings. His name is Raja Raja Cholan.
Point is fundamentally Thamizhs are against the ideologies of Sanskrit Vedas as it divides people and create the caste/varna pyramid structure. But slowly those ideologies penetrated into to TN with help of some stupid Thamizh kings as well but most prominently by help of the vijayanagara kingdom.
Nevertheless, we Thamizhs believe all humans are equals and are one family. Time to time, the Thamizh society has created leaders who fought against the Varnashama (a)dharma. That is still continued till this date, as you can see it anti-hindi imposition protest and so on. Only in TN more than 97 percent of people don't even add their caste as a surname.
So while reading history of India, keep in mind we have so much different cultures and so many different histories for them. It was never the same history nor it ever will be. And particularly as a Thamizhan, i can assure you that Thamizhs history is very different, very ancient compared to the rest of India.
@@pradhyumnamuralidharan4168 Thamizh Naadu was never not part of "the great" guptas 😁😁😁 Or any other dynasties of North India. We fell only to Vijayanagara Kingdom in 14th century and we are still trying to overthrow them🤣🤣🤣 if you know what I mean
@@MithunKKS it wasn't but caste domination was already present in TN before vijayanagara conquest of TN
Anirudh has amplified that the evolution of caste system in india is not from Manu smirithi as often claimed by many politicians.
Has he said that? It was from the manusmriti that it came in the north, and from where Brahmins came to the south. They propagated what was to follow later
@@nagraj2k1 it wasn't evil as to say, the rigidity which it got, came from our lovey dovey englishmen.
Dost, what are you smoking? He’s showing how it ossified even in the South from 1000 to 1300 long before the Brits.
The Brits did nothing except include lower castes into their army which helped them against the Peshas etc.
@@hemishshah6666 It is not that easy to wash away the role of varna system and the hierarchical world view of vedas which culminated into manusmrithi.
Vedas provided the ethical cover for the caste system to perpetuate. Even Ramanuja, who tried to be inclusive couldn't achive much.
@@ViswaMitrannnot vedas but smriti
Bro went pointing out Britishers right after fall of cholas in 13th century.... Leaving behind what happened really in those 5 centuries that made current caste system prevalent.
Caste or division, is not limited to India , It is everywhere in the world , in every religion, the name is different.
Sikhism was formed to make everyone equal , go to punjab and you will see every caste as their own Gurudwara.
Muslims has castes , Christians has castes in india.
Outside of India , Christians has different ideology, mormons , Protestants, catholics etc.
Accept criticism gandu, the overall Sanatan is fucked up and casteist
Very nice summary. Caste system as we see today is a continiously changing model shaped by the interplay between the varna system, social mobility, political cahnges, economic system and other changes.
Some groups like Parayar are more affected that others.
Understanding the dynamics of these changes will help building a balanced soceity where resources are distributed better.
Thanks for bringing deeper insights to thos topic.
He is unfortunately heavily influenced by Colonial historians. Brahmins were mostly not part of the elite but landowning communities like Vellalars, Chettiars and many more were the elite. The Cholas simply gave some temple lands to the Brahmins for their own Karma.
Man brahamanism has done so much damage to the country which others couldn't.
@@ansh_u_r Keep the facts dude. Don't womp
@@Flying_Spaghetti_Monsterr best fact is the society created by them which became prone to arrival of Islam in India.
now you know the background, how far is the society now on this issue. reservations were meant to handle this crap , but no metrics have been put forth , to see its progress. the end result people have now started taking pride in being backwards as subsequent agitations today show.
What does Brahmins being on top actually means?
They are not kings. They don't own lot of lands (temple owns it) .
Only thing they did was hold of literature.
Yes brahmins being on top.. Even during the wars the first duty of king is to create safety for kids , women's and brahmins. If any other ruler invades the land then his first duty is to respect the brahmin in the invaded land besides this they will get 2 meals a day from temple
It was not only in India but in the whole world people who had similar roles were the most respected,
Like in Greek they had the same class of people to which Aristotle and Plato used to belong.
Then in Europe they had fathers and pope.
Mendel is one of the prominent example.
All these people used to work as the
Doctors, teachers, scientist, king's consultant at that time.
And also used to form the social construct.
Like today we have good and bad people in all those respective fields at that time it was same too.
It was not only in India but in the whole world people who had similar roles were the most respected,
Like in Greek they had the same class of people to which Aristotle and Plato used to belong.
Then in Europe they had fathers and pope.
Mendel is one of the prominent example.
All these people used to work as the
Doctors, teachers, scientist, king's consultant at that time.
And also used to form the social construct.
Like today we have good and bad people in all those respective fields at that time it was same too.
Brahmins were on top to fool other Varnas and extract money
They manipulated and projected them as pure brings lmao ...alway a win win even if king dies or wins ...haha brilliant tbh
Parayars were one of the most downtrodden dalits their fight against injustice will be etched in history with gold.
Rettemalai Srinivasan was from this caste grp of parayars he and Ambedkar etc represented dalits at the British round table conference for separate electorates which they received but were denied ,dalit struggles is one of the most incredible social movements in the world ,and Ambedkar being the north star of dalits today.
But why weren't intercaste marriages common in medieval Tamil Nadu?
Was it common elswhere in India ?
@@tsMuthuraman-hm6wg no it wasn't. Why wasn't it common?
@@pradhyumnamuralidharan4168
Coz it used to provide them occupational as well as social security.
But it was not like that there were no intercaste marriages.
I think kshtriyas used to have the most intercaste marriages.
Specially no one in ancient era used to deny the proposal of rich kshtriya for their daughters coz in that case they don't need to worry about anything.
We tamils never followed varna or manusmriti ..
How do people even believe crazy concepts?
1) Brahmin as a class is superior & purer than all other classes of Indian geography. Brahmins are the last & final middleman to God. Brahmins as a class had no superiority complex against the non-indic classes called British/Turks/Parsians etc.
2) Moahmad Bin Abhdulha is superior and purer than every other Human being in the past, today, and forever future, on this flat earth. Also, Mohamad is the last & final middleman of God.
3) Muslims as a class are superior & purer than all other classes (called Kafirs).
Even after the universalization of scientific thinking in the past few centuries, there still are billions of Humans who believe in either of these crazy beliefs. It blows my mind.
For quick statistical data, any viewer who believes in either of these 3 concepts? Pl reply.
World is full of mads and mad people do mad things.
Very intresting point about the dynamics of caste and their relative changes in Medivial period onwards
I am very interested to see where is he quoting from.
He started to show temple inscriptions but moved to English so I am having my doubts.
mee too ..i hope this guy not from commies
Are you really as hollow- brained as you pretend to be?
The Colas
K.A. Nilakanta Sastri 1935 book on Tanjore big temple inscriptions.
It's interesting to learn that even though the caste system existed in the chola times itself, if someone classified as low caste had a good influential background they were not oppressed much unlike the poor 😢, which seems pretty far better than the time of independence where if someone was classified as low caste deprived of all rights which is still pretty evident on many occasions. Seems like the existing caste system had grown exponentially in the medieval period.
As we are in the 21st century, it's time to change what our ancestors have practiced and we should move towards the best of not just our country but for the whole of mankind.
Indeed that is how history operates brother. Things worsen over a period of time and gradually. Those who claim that the oppressive caste system has been a feature of Hindu society for 3 millennia don’t really know what they are talking about. To understand how caste system as we knew until few decades back, came to be, we have to look at how it evolved in the last 500-1000 years. And as you rightly say, things got much more oppressive with the passage of time during this period.
Constan invasion, illiteracy, poverty, played the major role in it's growth.
Plus our society also lacked a strong leader with high morals for a long time which also plays major role in the formation of good society.
Constructing history through temple inscriptions some how reliable, Thanks ❤
Read 'caste of minds' by Nicolas dirks, it's the British implemented their class system by birth over flexible caste system that maid caste system vertically solidified and kept many caste out of temple and brahmins inside
“As you can see from these inscriptions …”. It’s shown for less than the blink of an eye. How is one to catch the reference
why have you written British here?
this guy simply wuoting Western aurther books ..where is the scriptures
Castes have moved up and down throughout the centuries. A shudra army that won a war would claim to be kshatriya, while a king who was overthrown, could have his caste become shudra. Pre-modern stuff that sounds very crazy today. Democracy has brought stability to the society by replacing wars with elections, and creating welfare state.
What about the people who say caste system is a Western construct?
😂
Exactly who are the people who say this?
@@mkokulan Brahmins
There was an article in Indian Express by this gentleman referenced as "J Sai Deepak"@@mkokulan
@@mkokulan there is one guy called sai deepak a hindu extremist.
Absolutely Manusmrithi is blamed for a social phenomenon called caste system. Manu is nothing to do with it
I always think that King's and ruler in India in general were against the caste system and always tried to soften it...because they knew that how casteism is negatively affecting their military strength... They would always want bunch of good,strong,happy artisans and labourers who would provide good equipment for their war machine.Casteism was always beneficial for brahmin and Baniya to exploit.
Medieval and British? What?
Nice, so Caste system was like class system of British ?
dude the cagots in France and Spain or literal untouchables, similar to how Dalits are treated in India please read it
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot, the Romas are untouchable even now in Europe, the untouchability exist in every religion and Buddhism in different countries have different kinds of untouchability en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untouchability#Elsewhere
@@saisrinivasv.d136u giving Wikimedia reference ..its fake
A more interesting theory is expounded in the film Origin released this year about an American researcher who suggests that caste is part of a wider human reaction to the Other and linked to the idea of a superior race. So the link was made between Slavery, the Jewish Holocaust and Caste in India. But not the class system of the British more the Middle Passage and their belief that they were civilised beings and all the peoples they conquered were savages. Savages could not own land. And civilised people obeyed the rule of law and natural justice. So it was not theft when the British stole from the rest of the world. There is in this framing only a superficial link between the british class system which applies only to white british and among themselves and Caste which is about a master / slave race.
@@altlogodesigns1834 then why don't you search it on UA-cam there are several documentaries regarding it or search for books regarding it, and even in Wikipedia it has proper reference to them, go to the reference and check it out, and how are you calling a wikipedia page fake if it had proper reference and citations included
@@user-rc8br5sw6j why are they combining jews with slavery and untouchables, Jews were discriminated not because of their race they are discriminated because they didn't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, Jew beloved they are superior race and God chosen people, they became more discriminated as they took up money lending as according to Christians and Muslims money is evil and collecting intrest by giving money as debt is prohibited, ever heard of Islamic Banking, this allowed to accumulate wealth making them richest community while denying the local beliefs of people by not converting to Islam or Christianity, this why they were hated community, due their efficiency in money many times Jews used to act as tax collectors another job hated by society so they are discriminated, Slavery is a universal problem at that time, there were not just black slaves there were slaves from every race, trans Atlantic slavery is about black slavery, what about slavery prevalent in middle East, Nadhir Shah and other invaders who invaded India captured several Indian and sold them in slave markets in middle East, Janisaries are white European slaves owned by Turks, Malik Kafur the trusted general of Allauddin Khilji is a slave, Qutubuddin Ibak who started slave Dynasty in India and first muslim ruler was a slave of Gori, even India had slavery alongside Untouchability during the time period of Vijayanagara empire and even after collapse of Vijayanagara there were slaves seperate from untouchables USA literally started war with Caliphat as they were attacking American Ships and arresting Americans and selling them as slaves, and our Critical Race theory is not even taking into account about several other Untouchables that exist all around the world, like Cagots who are Untouchables in Europe and they are supposed to have Blond hair and Blue eye, even during Roman rule People with blonde hair are considered as uncivilized savages and prostitutes supposed to dye their hair blond as they are involving in Uncivilized behaviour, but Hitler belived the people with blond hair and blue eyes as the superior race, and many Cagots look literally no different than normal Europeans, they were supposed to live outside the villages called Caglots, they are not supposed to touch food products and water as this will get polluted because of their touch, they are not allowed to become Priests, they are not allowed to marry anyone other than Cagots and they have seperate burial grounds and are not supposed to be buried alongside remaining people, they supposed to wear seperate dress so they can get easily identified, their names will be marked in the register etc, most of them are wood workers, they are discriminated because wood was treated as impure as Jesus Christ was crucified on it, as they are working on wood they become untouchables, and Critical Race theory doesn't even talk about untouchables in China, Korea, Japan, Sri Lanka and Tibet all of them were Buddhist countries and there are clear records that Untouchability only rose after the raise of Buddhism, and we are not even talking about Untouchability exist among several communities in Africa and Romas are Untouchables even Today they are Indians who are forced to move away from India during Islamic Invasions and even now are treated as untouchables and are pushed from one country to other
Caste system came with vijayanagara, most of the caste names used today are born in vijayanagara era.
Which caste is majority in old chengalpet district parayas or palis
Please do a video on nikah-Halala and Witch Hunting.
Secularism 😂😂😂😂😂
How can we eradicate caste?
There is no caste system, then what is there to eradicate
By not asking everyone's caste over every single document.
By providing resources to the needy ones instead of providing caste based reservation,
By accepting gotras as surname,
By teaching kinds true history instead of teaching them Marxist propaganda.
by not doing caste politics which Indi alliance is doing brazenly. Shameful sate of opposition
By inter caste marriage, and eradicating surnames and religions. By making bikini models and Porn stars from every community, so that no one could feel superior or inferior. Basically a society similar to white people
Try intercaste marriages ❤@@World-yt8lo
No one followed the manusmruthi. Show one document referring to it by kings. Since the mahabharatha tribals were considered as bit outside although Vidura was a shudra. Untouchability perhaps came as so called lower castes were poor did not bathe etc. purity with bathing was very important to upper castes
The first step to finding a solution is to accept the problem.
Appalled by current generation brahmins attitude towards caste system. They blame it on britishers and also try to mis-interpret the vedas/smrithis/scriptures that it doesn;t imply caste by birth.
The better way forward is to acknowledge & accept the fact that caste system was proposed & perpetuated by the vedic scriptures into the society.
And renounce themselves from these age-old idealogies by openly declaring that these scriptures are malicious and remove all the verses that advocate caste from these books .
Note: Britishers where advocated by brahmins (working for britishers) to follow caste system to rule india. Not that the britishers did on their own to divide-n-rule.
So you want to blame our scriptures and the Brahmin community. Based on what evidence ? Who made you the authority to decide who and what was responsible and who were not ? If you are a person from a different religion please don’t try to meddle into our affairs and mind your own business.
No wonder people will never deny for the caste based privileges they are getting from gov,
will never burn the constitution which divides the entire hindu population into 4 birth based categories but indeed blame a single caste without any evidence.
Nobody likes to go away the cream they enjoy.Don't wait for brahmins one day see the sun the other castes to make their own religio-polito-social structure which will obliterate the their dependency on Brahmins..just like jains and Sikhs..
@@zzzzz653 hinduism created casteism. i do not need authority as scriptures clearly tells you to do so. read vedas and manusmriti.
@@tempjadho Provide sources from Vedas for casteism except Purushasukta hymn {which can be iinterpreted to mean social hierarchy not necessasiriy caste} ?
The caste system solidified during cholas beacause the cholas took the words of Brahmins to their hearts. It could be the period the caste got rooted in TamilNadu. But all of these seperate group of people according to their birth concept originated from Hinduism, not from ancient Tamils.
Indeed ! The Cholas who ruled over such a mighty empire were simpletons who got hoodwinked by the Brahmins and yet a compete nobody like you is fully aware of the cunning Brahmins. Can you just stop spreading poison against Brahmins & Hinduism ?
Is there any evidence this process was followed all over India?
Fake!! The Brihadeeswarar (thanjavur periya temple) has names of all tamil communities including the lower sections. Everybody contributed and built temples. After cholas kingdom fell, the caste varna system was introduced by nayakars, brahmins who ruled post that. The so called low caste people were kings and warriors in their village. The cholas ruled 10 countries, defeated the north kingdoms. How is that possible if people were divided ? There is no proof that cholas invited 1000 brahmins. This info was claimed by brahmins themselves as people would see them as outsiders. Please do proper research and speak truth. Not propaganda!!
Using inscriptions to interpret history is the bane of Indian history.
I guess we should just make up History then, as Sanghis are doing now...
You just ended up justifying it, making it seem a natural human behaviour.
Coz it is a natural behaviour.
For example see entertainment industry around the world and how they treat outsiders and how much privileges nepo kids get.
Then same thing is in business and medical field too.
Same goes to the every race and country where people prefer their country and race more,
Leave that even rich sc st does the same they never leave their reservation even after becoming rich and having good social status so that it becomes easy for their child and due to this the poor ones rarely get it's benefits.
@@SarojSingh-nq5ql agreed.
Caste system is a natural phenomenon. Than why do people blame India, and especially the upper caste for it?
When everyone's equally responsible with regards to implementing it?
@@SarojSingh-nq5qlReservation is just representation of community, doesn’t mean it can eradicate poverty. Only Dalits being Entrepreneur while you Sanghis help them reach that higher strata could do wonders. You guys talk about meritocracy but are over represented in every field. In media, judiciary, professors(all through Jugaad)
@@SarojSingh-nq5qlcaste system is not a class system..caste system is based on your birth not on your skill...so it's unnatural..
Thanks for this video. Most of the Hindu houses don't keep Manusmriti. We are giving too much importance to this particular book.
I have seen Manusmiriti in many Hindu hoy places selling and priests never let it go off the rack.
@@ansh_u_r the majority of buyers are infact ambedkarites, not OBCs or General Castes. Most people have never even seen or read the book. Also it's really unlikely much of the manusmriti was enforced. It's like future historians trying to judge our society by looking at tv serials, there is a kernel of truth, but much of it is dramatised to appease a certain viewer demographic. Also priests keep the book as a respect to Manu as the founder of law, not out of respect for the laws themselves. Besides plenty of priests are non Brahmins. My caste wasn't allowed into Temples till 1650s so we created our own and we have our own priests . Same goes with most tribes .
@@ansh_u_r Must be Ambedkarite priests
I asked a friend of mine a question...what he thinks about the casteism?? He said who would like to marry a brahmin girl who would not cook a good mutton.
Thanks...
Enough of brahmin hatred. No one doles this out to present day british or germans despite their bad past.
Lol a white woman can marry an ugly Indian guy but an ugly Brahmin girl cannot marry an ugly Dalit guy . WTF is this ?
Yes, Brahmin's hatred is still destroying India. Of course, Dalits and OBC's are also following the "head's" ideas.
They are all connected, all 3 you named. Who do you think let the Brits walk right in?
@@EyeWill714 Dalit and OBC's?
@@thewhatorwhy Nope. You only blame them bcuz they had no choice but to run to the Abrahamic oppressors to save themselves from Varna outcast oppression. Who would want to be stuck in that? Brits exploited the Varna system as they took over and enforced it even more.
It's all about skin colour, Money, power , what one brings to the table, network etc etc which is very much prevalent in today's society every where in the world . Which will never go ....these hierarchy is here to stay
how ?
can me and my sister pass as tamils ?
It's shame that India didn't create a better social system.
Manusmriti was never a governing document. I am not sure why and what the controversy about it is.
It was reference text for many Brahmins and survived for long period and never abandoned.
@@ansh_u_r When have Brahmins ever been Kings and controlled the state apparatus at a large scale? Do you know of any instances of such control? Like for example the Church which engineered crusades? Have a sense of proportion when you say things. What was the benefit that accrued to Brahmins from it?
The control of the Church was so intrusive, they eventually overstepped by telling the English Crown what to do and caused a split in the Church. Eventually it led to what we know as secularism. The separation of Church and state. It was a mutually agreed truce for both to stay out of each others affairs. However, Democracy has empowered the conservative church by allowing them to contest elections and legislatively and judicially change things.
It was not until the British Bureaucracy that Brahmins became powerful in the state and matters of the state. Post Independence they were the bureacracy. They were everywhere.
How many Brahmin Zamindars do you know of? I heard from a North Indian friend that there are many in North India. However, we are talking about the entire country. Elsewhere in India there are not many Brhamins. They are 1-2% of any populaion at best. This entire Brahmin caused everything is a theory that falls flat.
No one stopped the rest from inventing science, mathematics and anything else. The rest of the population could have started their own thing. Clearly they did not. Stop blaming a community for everything.
@@MrRk540 did you read "many" word in my comment...is many equals to all...??? But many brahmins used it to subjugate many people...out of getting joy in brutality and who else doesn't want slaves??
@@ansh_u_r Many non-Brahmins have done to. Do you have concrete evidence that Brahmins owned slaves? Do you have hard evidence that Brahmins engaged in violence large scale and subjugated people more than any other group?
Many do many things. That does not mean you start branding an entire community.
In fact the violence is significantly more by other communities. Brahmins are just the whipping boy in this entire debate.
Brahmins probably given their status in society did not do enough to fix the issue. They did not do enough. But that is hardly a reason to lay all the blame at their door. To the extent that it was an issue they should have taken more initiative to fix, they can be blamed.
Manusmriti is not the source of all evil though.
vedas tell you to follow manusmriti. vedas clearly sanction manusmriti
Very nice
I think he is indirectly agreeing with Savarkar on caste.
Only you are. He doesn't have Savarkar's take on non-Hindus. Sanghi, your tricks will backfire just as they are about to against your Ram Raj govt.
@@thewhatorwhywhy you hate hindus are you Andnamazi
Dirtiest people are claiming themselves to be “pure”!!?
Like periyarites and nav budhs of today's era.
Mannar mannan, an uprising scholar from the Thamizh lands, has clearly proven multiple times from the Cholan edicts. that caste and it's by products are brought in by the aryan and their offshoot dravidian tribes who professed vedic social-hierarchy mechanisms to grab power from the Native Tamils. Tamils only had 'Kudi's and not 'Jaathi's which by the way, is an Brahminical construct!
ua-cam.com/video/osuNQARt0P8/v-deo.htmlsi=fkGQngnsCG1pul1U
Outstanding ❤❤❤❤❤.......
A lot of effort to push this narrative hmmm
Your ideas are critical and need much more research and analysis. Need more lies and manipulation. Not enough to justify Brahmins. As you said it's my comment which you desired for.
caste system makes hinduism worst ..like there are thousands of castes and thousands of subcastes and gotras wtf
u haven't studied anything and u questions the system
Keep ❤ Posting
caste system present in sangam period ..
Inequality in society as old as time of hunter-gatherers to today and as some family to families to tribes to clans to cast people always wanted to benefit people closer to their bloodline that's how humans survived, landlords to laborers people rise and fall as time passed there were not just brahmin but mostly middle cast are the one how subjugated people we call dalit today, people blaming just one branmhin or just scripture is stupid, and it's also stupid to just blame one empire or British, it's combinations of everything which shapes society today with laws and enforcement with reverse/positive discrimination today, I hope we get out of this cycle of oppression soon enough
The bad thing about Indian casteism is it divides thd society based on birth not on skills.
@@ansh_u_r Nop birth based identity has been part of human history globally as all ancient forms of govt. recognized it while as you can see in video groups moved up or down during certain periods & contexts.
@@dsbdsb6637 birthbased identities on basis of skill not on the basis of birth and lineage.
Thesis ....
Even if the Caste System was prevalent in King Raja Raja , what’s the use of discussing it now ; Instead , the host should discuss this was present , evolved today like this and how we can Capitalize such caste forces ; In Tamil Nadu only Dalits and Brahmins have no social back up today and left high and dry; Brahmins left for greener pastures based on their Psyche ; The humiliation and attack they suffered in the hands of DK & DMK made them silent and much strong ; Dalits are caught in the web being cheated by their own leaders and Dravisha parties ;
Ironically , with all the dust around , TN had chosen a female Brahmin CM for 4 terms sometimes with brute majority ; To me it appears that , Let the caste system prevail and contribute to the economy in their own ways and wary of political traps ; It is proved for 70 plus years that it can not be eradicated
Looks like thats why TN developed much faster than other states. Besides, any educated person will seek and leave for greener pasture, not just brahmins.
@@kumar.193 yes yes very well developed ; Liquor / Drugs / Cinema / Sand / Granite / Real Estate etc all are in black ; Well appreciated;
@@maniaphobia4719 Talk about facts statistics. Emotions won't help.
@@kumar.193 What facts ??? Mumbai , Gujarat are ahead ; UP is fast catching up ; Healthy competition is always good ; paralell economy and mafias are not good ; Caste politics is dangerous ; If u r improved , compare with Singapore , Malaysia , Dubai etc ; North have demographics and illegal immigration problems posing burden to the public utilities
@@maniaphobia4719 Compare based on human development indicators and industrialization as well. Tamilnadu's development is more broad-based and a lot more even. There is no other state better than TN that has a better mix of good ranking in both industrialization and human development indicators.
Still this is largely misinterpreted. I don't understand why interpret, instead just serve truth na. Oh ok, for that one needs to know truth, for that they need to have clarity of perception instead if trusting the works of so called "scholars" which largely comes with so much of corruption. Ultimately a person expects truth from media, but i can understand there will be some mixing on the way but atleast the intent should be to convey truth and not to be politically correct. Then this can be termed as true journalism.
Blah blah, can you dispute single point with a counter argument? Show us what is misinterpreted exactly.
Untouchables were Buddhists and they're not part of caste system, infact there is no fifth Varna. There are only 4 varnas, do not include them in that caste hierarchy.
Janehudari Brahmins gave up beef eating and sacrificing cows to gain upper hand over Buddhism and they spread a false propaganda against the Buddhists, that they're untouchables because they consume beef of cow that died naturally.
The real untouchables are janehudari Brahmins not Dalits or SC.
dude Buddhists are absolutely against eating any meat, it is one of the main parts of Buddhism is to stop harming life, and in Buddhist countries like Japan, South Korea, Sri Lanka, China, and Tibet the people who are involved in hunting and butchering, executors, workers in a graveyard became untouchables, and it is clearly recorded that these communities became untouchable only after the rise of Buddhism, the untouchability in these countries was as worse as untouchability in Kerala and treatment of untouchable Cagots in France, the Christian Missionaries in South Korea, Japan are literally using this to convert them to Christianity, and there is a high chance the untouchability in India started due to Buddhism
Japan: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin
Sri Lanka: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodiya
Tibet: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_Tibet#Ragyabpa_%E2%80%93_Untouchables
South Korea: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekjeong
China: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanka_people
"gave up beef eating and sacrificing cows to gain upper hand over Buddhism " Bull s^&t. Adi Shankara defeated Budhists in open debate. They did not dominate due to beef. In tharka method of debate, Budhist way could not stand up to Vedic system.
@@indieboy1033 There is no proof Adi Shankara defeating Buddhists in open debate. That is just a false propaganda by the janehudari Brahmins, infact Buddhists were massacred, their Buddhists temples were destroyed and Brahmanical temples were constructed over them and the Buddhists who were against Brahmanism, caste system were labelled as untouchables.
@@deepand1798 People accepted buddhism from all backgrounds Brahamis, ksatrys, sudras etc. so it's a falsehood to claim Buddhist are lower castes. Buddha himself was a kastrya.
And generally Buddhist and jains are pure vegetarians.
Hindus left beef eating for agricultural reasons and for vegetarianism not for castism.
@@SidhantDhagare-gw3fj Buddhism, advocated nonviolence but they had beef or meat of cow which suffered a natural death.
lord Buddha never advocated vegetarianism,infact Buddha on his alms round had whatever was put in his bowl, including meat.
Brahmins social position was down during Buddha, because these janehudari brahmins sacrificed cow's which was an important animal for agricultural society.
Buddha ridiculed these sacrifices and he was held in high esteem among the masses.
These Brahmins gave up cow sacrifices and became vegetarian to gain upper hand over Buddhism.
Social segregation was due to epidemic breakout
The actual start of caste discrimination in Tamilnadu is after the fall of Pandiya dynasty in 1536 A.D after the sibling of Sadayavarman Pandiyan 3 went to malik kafur and asked his support to win over his brother who was the king. Outside kingdoms utilised it and exploited tamils using caste discrimination.
Wrong on many accounts.
Just went way too far with your lies...🤭
Rig Veda 9.10-Purush Sukta
baraahmano.asy mukhamaaseed baahoo raajanyah krt: |
oorootadasy yad vaishyah padbhyaan shoodro ajaayat ||
As per above verse, Brahmans come from the mouth, Kshatriya come from the arms, Vaishyas come from the thighs and the Shudras come from the feet.
Furthermore in the Brihad Araṇyaka Upaṇiṣad discusses the concept of the four divisions of society and says that Brahma created the Brahmā (Brahmanhood or spiritual power) but he could not flourish so he created the principle of kṣatra or temporal power represented by the gods Indra, Varuna, Soma, Rudra, parjanya, Yama, Mrtyu and Iśāna. - yet still he could not flourish so he created the principle of viś which means a settlement of agriculturalist and herders represented by the groups of gods known as the Vasus, Adityas (among them Vishnu), Vishvedevas and Maruts. The rig veda has these verses about varna system and rig veda is considered the oldest of texts. How is it then Caste is explained as if it was dropped off from ''heaven'' or from a tree top without any social group curating this idea along with theism...?
We are talking about rigid caste system this caste system is not rigid.
@@SidhantDhagare-gw3fj it's not about the rigidity or the flexibility...! It's about the idea of caste, its root Varna and its origin is etched in the rig Veda. It's based on birth. It's considered a book for theistic beliefs in this land.
the previous mantra 31.10. It asks a question - Who is mouth? Who is hand? Who is thigh and who is leg?
The next mantra gives the answer - Brahmin is the mouth. Kshatriya is hand. Vaishya is thigh and Shudra becomes the legs.
Note that the mantra does not say that Brahmin “takes birth” from mouth…It says Brahmin “is” mouth. Because if the mantra would mean “takes birth” it would not answer the question in previous mantra “Who is mouth?”
For example, if I ask “Who is Dashrath?” An answer like “Rama is born from Dashrath” would be meaningless!
The actual meaning is: In society, Brahmins or intellectuals form the brain, head or mouth that think and speak. Kshatriyas or defense personnel form the hands that protect. Vaishyas or producers and businessmen form the thigh that support and nurture (note that thigh bone or femur produces blood and is the strongest bone). In Atharvaveda, instead of Uru or Thigh, the word “Madhya” is used meaning that it also denotes the stomach and central part of the body. Shudra or Labor force forms the legs that lay the foundation and make the body run.
The next mantras talk of other parts of this body like mind, eyes, etc. The Purush Sukta describes the origin and continuation of creation including human society and states ingredients of a meaningful society.the dignity of labor is equally emphasized in Vedas, and hence, there is no element of discrimination.
@@subhodeepmaji2975 caste system is birth based as your caste is defined by your karma yoga and nothing else
For caste system 'Manushmruthi' is the base. And of course it started in tamil nadu from cholas empire. Before that there was no caste system in tamil nadu.
It was started only during vijayanagar empire in tamilnadu before that all north were following it..tamilnadu never accepts manusmrithi
@@raghuls1515 Tamil badu accepted manusmriti that's why caste system started in first place.
@@SidhantDhagare-gw3fj all those caste discrimination came in last few centuries not during ancient & medical times
@@raghuls1515 Yes but they came after accepting manusmriti.
@@raghuls1515 bro don't be delusional, it was there even during sangam age and it strengthened during Chola age. During Vijayanagara age nothing spectacular happened except few Telugu castes also getting added up to the list.
Ok paid propaganda obviously we know which party
caste system is not bad... in army marcos and bsf are different... but birth based caste system is wrong... if bsf works harder then he can be a marcos and if a marcos doesn't work hard he won't be a marcos anymore...
that what we need now....if caste system ends then who will direct 1.4 billion population??? if anything is wrong then it is HIERARCHY
You are mixing up organization and a stratified soceity. In caste system, one cant escape inspite of knowledge and performance. Wealth and power made some change to individuals but not a systemic change.
Shivaji was denied coronation but due to his wealth and power, he was coronated as chatrapathi. But, later is descendents were religated to lower caste.
@@ViswaMitranndo you even have proper knowledge about Chhatrapati Shivaji maharaj or just making up things by yourself being a Marathi this example seems completely incorrect and if you want to know what actually happened during coronation of Chhatrapati Shivaji maharaj you can watch video of Ashish Bharatvanshi .
@@neelkoli3319 I would have choose a different profession if I have vivid imagination to make up such a thing.
I do remember reading this in a well-known well read Marathi.
@@ViswaMitrann now people want to identify as lower caste🤡🤡
and you know the reason.....
@lmfaodude are you talking about EWS poor earning 8lakh/year? - I just took the liberty to make a tongue-in-the-cheek response.
On a serious note, If you cut through all the noise, in the end, it is all about those who assume that the status quo is beneficial and those who think change is better.
What we need is a deliberative, consensus-building political class. You and I don't have time to do that full-time. But, by equipping ourselves with the right knowledge, facts, and principles, we can play a balancing role and set a better level playing field. It is not an us vs them. It is us and them.
can you make a video about untouchability that exist in different religions that existed all around the world and the similarity between them
like
Japan: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin
Sri Lanka: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodiya
Tibet: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_Tibet#Ragyabpa_%E2%80%93_Untouchables
South Korea: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekjeong
China: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanka_people
France and Spain: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot
Europe: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people
Yemen: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muhamash%C4%ABn
I would recommend the film Origin based on the book. No point reinventing the wheel they could develop those ideas
@@user-rc8br5sw6j the movie tried to combines Untouchability with Slavery, both of which are two entirely different concept which existed in society parllelly at the same time, this makes zero sense
@@saisrinivasv.d136 The writer doesn't specifically espouse crticial race theory which has become a bogeyman catch all term easily replaced by woke culture and all sorts. The book isn't that dense but I struggled finishing it. You can google it if interested. The main crticism she got was from Germans and Jews who felt their suffering was unique. Everybody feels that way about suffering. But in the film its simplified to a close reading of minutes of a 1934 precursor to plans for the holocaust citing German theorists own links with the American thesis underpinning their treatment of slaves and former slaves including the Crow laws. And her thesis is that all these what you term different concepts are underpinned by views of racial superiority. Its well argued and I dont' think one paragraph gives the film justice which is a simplification of a very large book if you are interested. She's not a critical race theory academic which approached things from law departments originally. And it certainly does make sense in the film as she rebuts the critiques of others in it via simple dialogue
@@saisrinivasv.d136 again it is impossible to post anything to a highlighted comment on youtube all the best
@@user-rc8br5sw6j even then the movie tried to combine slavery and Untouchability two entirely different concept that excited in same society in the same time, even in India slavery and Untouchability existed parllel to each other at same time, the Untouchables in India are more similar to Cagots in Europe than Jews, Jewish discrimination is more similar to Shiya and Sunni conflict and Jews were economically and politically far more powerful than Cagots and Untouchabiles in India ever were, combined religious and economic prosperity made them a hated community, Jews believe themselves to be superior to others and God chosen people not inferior race, and slavery is entirely different concept, there were slaves from every race, And Romas are the worst case of Untouchability they literally forced from one country to other,
🤣🤣🤣 propaganda artists & lazy free hoarders... getting creative & making up evidences...
🪔 The intent is important,... if it is for the better of all,... No evidence from land & sky are needed.
Have you read "The Beautiful Tree" by Dharampal... based on British archives & records...
🪔🚩🇮🇳