Grafting Series Lesson #9, Rind Grafts, Between Bark and Wood
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2017
- A few variations on Rind, or Bark, Grafting. The Scions are inserted between the bark and the wood of the fruit tree to make the graft.
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Another great instructional video. I feel like a pro after watching your series on Grafting.
Great stuff. Your tutorials are beyond superb. You answer all the questions that we don't know enough to even ask!
Some people actually see that as a negative, but I tend to like to be thorough and answer the questions I know people will have later anyway. That makes for good evergreen content that people can refer back to. I'd like to be making more short concise versions of stuff at the same time, because that is useful too and not everyone has the time or attention span to watch a 10 video series, including me sometimes lol :)
My first year grafting and I've been soaking up every video tutorial I can find for months. This series has been the best by far. thanks!
Cool! I already want to redo and fill in some gaps, but if I do this is just what I need to do to dial it in and understand how to do it better. Build your dream house twice they say... I may try to get Mark Albert to do a budding segment too.
How'd the grafts turn out?
😂 I'm just compelled to finish it! Yup! Can relate!
Fantastic and thorough series. Essential for the beginner. I'm very impressed with all I've been taught so far. Thanks again for the effort.
you're welcome. Thanks again for the support and congrats on your new family member.
Injerto árboles frutales desde hace más de cincuenta años, pero al ver tu video he descubierto detalles importantes para tener mayores probabilidades de éxito. Felicitaciones por tu excelente trabajo! Saludos desde La Plata, Argentina.
Gracias amigo, buena suerte!
This series is absolutely awesome, like all your stuff, the best quality information and insights available on the web. Really fantastic, thank you for making the videos and sharing all your knowledge and experience.
You're welcome. Thanks for your support and good comments :)
Merci beaucoup pour ces techniques et précieuses explications .
Great info
thank you for the great tips.good job.
Thanks
Excellent content. Thanks
you're welcome
Improvised paintbrush is a good example
of can do attitude. Great vid cheers.
Those things are handy. Just using available resources!
Great video!🔝
Very Info video. Thanks
I've had great success using a variant form of bark graft on Citrus. Using the flattest, thinnest scion available, both the inner and outer epidermis is sliced off and tucked under the rootstock opened up on an intact small rootstock (top not removed). The rootstock is prepared a bit like a T-bud, however only the one side flap of T-cut is loosened. The scion is then inserted under the loosed flap and slid as far to the side from the vertical slit as practical. As the flap attempts to heal back onto the rootstock the scion heals and unites on both the wood side cambium as well as the bark side cambium.
This graft makes maximum cambium to cambium contact and has a very high rate of "takes". There is a bit of a vulnerable period until the callus tissue lignifies, especially if there's rapid, tender growth. The vulnerability is that the scion may break off due to wind, birds perching on the scion, etc. Properly wrapping the graft union usually prevents the breaking away of the scion.
Thanks Edholm!
You're welcome B!
Thanks for the video
Welcome
Thanks
The strength of the film stretch wrap is accumulated more wraps for more tight. I have seen shipping cartons crushed by strech wrap.
Definitely the case in wrapping grafts!
About using the biotape: When I do bandageges I hold the roll the other way. Then the roll actually rolls around the limb(pun intended) instead of you having to unroll it in a way. Also makes it easier to thighten. Hope this makes sense.
yes, thank you. I did that sometimes, but not sure it ever stuck. Thanks.
Masking tape alone can work for the securing, and for a paint-on protectant, basic wood glues work well. Parafilm works niceley as a protectant. Btw, just to mention, not that you addressed grapes, but grapes typically don't need protectant for grafting, just securing.
Very interesting, I never thought about using nail. I wish you would show us the growth ending result.
The one aspect of the rind graft that Cornell is recommending that is a slight modification of some of these is that they are recommending a sloped wedge on the scion, where the wedge is thicker on the cut side of the bark and thinned towards were the bark is lifting off the wood. Just another small nuance I suppose. I ended up using almost all rind grafts last week on my frankentree, mostly because the scions I had were tiny and I'd practiced the rind graft so much more since it was the recommended graft in the Cornell protocol for topworking. I do like the alternate grafts you show at the end, its great to see such good footage vs line drawings.
Funny, I thought of that while editing in between the first segment and shooting the supplemental, "other rind grafts" segment at the end. People probably didn't notice, but I ended up rounding the one for the scion that is centered in the slit, although after, I was wondering about just cutting two flat facets instead, like a flattened V. I've had really good luck with rind grafts except for the side style for some unknown reason. Possibly because I've mostly tried to use it in large trees. If there is a place where it matters a lot, cutting a sideways slope on the style I did in the beginning where you set the scion to one side, which sounds like the style they recommend and you are probably using? That makes sense to prevent having a big gap in there. I'll probably do it next time if I don't forget between now and next grafting season, which seems likely haha. Really, I've had such good luck with them that I think of it as a really forgiving graft. I think the place people will go wrong, besides the usualy not-flat-eough cuts, is not securing them well enough since there is no woody structure to hold the graft together like the wood on wood methods. The link you gave me to the cornell stuff was dead. Is it public? or do you have special access? If not, maybe you can post it here. Or if it's a PDF, maybe you can mail it to me. I'd like to see what they are recommending. Good luck with your grafts. I hope you got suntan, as it's reputed to be an amazing keeper, it's quite late blooming, just before my latest, and is outstanding and uniquely flavored. Now I want to convince you to start crossing Court Pendu Plat with stuff and growing out seedlings :).
blogs.cornell.edu/plantpathhvl/files/2015/02/12-3-Hoying-NYFQ-grafting-28tz2tf.pdf
Hopefully that will work. I'll shoot you an email too.
That one works. thanks.
Hi , thanks for your information do you have video t budding and cheep budding for tree and rose would you please.thanks a lot.
There are so many techniques that I have wanted more information on. I think there's chip budding (I heard that's typically done late season), bridge grafting and inarch grafting. I think that there's more, but I don't remember their names.
Names are not reliable anyway. I'm going to do a video on some other grafts, breaking rules and making stuff up. I won't be covering summer slip budding, but I might rally a friend to do one for us to put in the series. It is not very hard and with the background from this series I'm sure you can easily pick up what you need on the internet. If you want to completely geek out on grafting and get a full treatment, pick up the grafting handbook. It's fairly exhaustive on all types of grafting. Here is an amazon link amzn.to/2r6ke0D It's really not necessary for the average grafter, but like I said, if you want the full treatment...
I love this seriies, thanks for sharing. My question is when is the best time to do all these graphs I assume anytime in the growing season.
Yeah, I somehow didn't make that obvious enough. for dormant wood best is just before bud break if it's not too cold, through the bloom. You can graft later, but the scions will sometimes grow slowly, or even not at all til the following year.
These videos are amazing! I've tried grafting before with zero success; these have given a lot more insight into what is happening. A quick question- how short can the scion be, and how does the length affect it's success? Thanks!
Thanks :). It can be very short if necessary. I've done under 2 inches, with only one good bud. I prefer them longer, but if you have limited scions or just stubby short scions from weak or old or overgrown trees that haven't been pruned in a long time. You can make stuff work sometimes. It depends on how easy the tree is to graft too of course.
A couple of times you appeared to reverse the scion orientation with the short slope towards the stock by mistake
I'd love to have that little hammer in my collection
what a useful series on grafting, thanks a lot for that Mr. SkillCult! I went straight out after watching your series and grafted plums on a cherry blum tree using the rind graft. I know it depends on many factors, but from your experience, how long does it take before you know if you succeded ?
If you see the buds extending beyond 3/8 inch, it is probably good to go. Occasionally they will extend an then die, but not usually. Make sure to seal the top well so no water can get into the graft area. Plums are usually not too hard, but you never know.
ok, thanks for the comprehensive answer. I did see some leaves start to pop out of the buds but it seems they stopped in the middle of the process. It was not really done according to the rules as the scions were not cut when they were dormant and were stored outside until they were grafted onto the tree. So I try to manage my expactation though I'm almost dying of excitement to see if it all works out :)
Great video. Quick question - can you perform this graft on an apple anytime you are able to split the bark effectively (IE late winter) or do you need to wait until the bark is really slipskin like when you bud graft? Apples are pretty forgiving so I am thinking this will work anytime you would do any other type of graft. Ive just done clefts and whip and tongue to date.
I'm not sure. I would probably wait a bit till at least early spring, but you're right, they are very forgiving, so it could work. Might depend on what type of budding you are doing, or if you are doing this type of scion grafting.
With that graft (vid 2:30) how do you control the uplifted cambium and air flow into the cambium layer - wax, tar ? Or was this just a demo, and the smaller graft would have been vastly thinner and longer ... to not uplift so much cambium ?
Would you then incut the actual wood, allowing the slip to be inside the cambium circle and keep the cambium layer tight and snug.
Great videos. Thanks for sharing. One question: In case you nail the scion, how long do you keep the nail in the tree?
You just leave it.
Might piss off someone 50 years from now, but oh well :)
An aluminium nail won't harm a chipper later on.
Are you using scion wood that’s been stored in the fridge for these grafts? So the tree is full on leafed out and growing, but the scion is still dormant?
Yes, exactly. it is cut in January here, or February many places and stored in refrigeration in sealed bags. One of these video series covers that.
I don't do quite the same way I use a sloping cut on the inside, so you have a church window above the stock, I have seen good calusing at this area which would strengthen the graft compared to the 90 deg cut you use. Which I've used myself I would like to see some video of that particular graft.
I think I understand what you mean.
It seemed clear when I wrote it lol
When doing the single bark cut side bark graft, what about the air gap between the flap of bark and the heart wood along side the scion under the bark flap? It just fills up with cambium tissue over time?
That's a good question. I don't think I ever really paid enough attention to notice what all happens in there. I should cut one open sometime.
I was wondering if we could bark graft without cutting the branch off? All the branches on my pear tree are very high and i was hoping to graft on another pear variety lower down on the main stem without cutting it down. Any advice is very appreciated :)
There is one method in the last third of this video for side grafting into a vertical branch. Actually a couple.
Great work ,can you please show us some grape grafting and when regards frank
I don't graft grapes. I've only grown them from cuttings. I don't have much reason to choose specific rootstocks for them and they are super easy to grow from cuttings. Just stick them in the ground basically. I think they are chip budded, which is pretty easy usually. I'm sure there is good info on that.
Do the nails not cause damage to the tree over time? I always thought putting nails into to tree will damage it over time?
When do you remove the tapes?
if using pine pitch is it still ok to paint the scion as you do with paint @ 17:00?
I haven't tried, but I"d guess it's okay.
I will be attempting one of these in a year or two on the large pawpaw i dug up. Can you cut the "rootstock" at an angle instead of level. There is a strip of dead bark running down one side. I cant decide if i should cut it down to good bark or try an inarch graft on the dead bark and rind grafts on the side with good bark to restart the upper portion of the tree. Would that even heal up in a positive manner? Its had so much trauma recently idk if anything will even help.
I've seen one style in the grafters handbook (which I'll talk about in the tie up video when we get there), but it's on a smaller stock. I wouldnt' do too much of a slope on a large cut. If you cut a large branch to a strong angle and leave it, I think the high part is more likely to develop necrosis and die back on the high side. Do pawpaw's stump sprout? you may want to establish it, and then actually cut it down and regrow a new tree from the roots. I just don't know if it's that kind of tree or not. Not sure about inarching. I've never used it and I'm not sure exactly what your situation is. If it's a special variety, Maybe just graft it out onto seedlings. If not, I'm not sure. If it's alive lower down, maybe cutting it lower and growing a new top??
Thanks for videos. How many years do you leave the surplus scions on the bark graft? I have many problems with them: 1) a perpendicular surface does not heal well. If I place my "keeper" scion at noon (best position for max growth from my experience) then saw off the stock corner below it, then the healing closes in from the sides much faster than keeping the entirely perpendicular cut surface.. 2) If I pinch back the surplus scions- as several authorities say- not much healing takes place and I don't see how a large cut would ever heal. . Sometimes I leave the surplus scions on for a year just for added leaf surface, then saw them off at an angle but then worry that removing part of the branch weakens it.
I leave them on until the surface is mostly healed. or well on it's way. I will usually cut the extras back after the first year of growth and let the dominant one run. Interesting to hear your experience. maybe I'll experiment with that. thanks.
A question...Can I use the graft toward the end of the video where you come out on the side of the trunk as a scaffold branch? thanks
I've tried that a few times and the graft either fails or wont' grow. I actually have one other thing to try if the graft takes, which is to ring around the entire trunk, right above it with a saw, barely into the wood. I know most would say that will kill the tree, but I've done it and the tree healed and grew back. I had a couple of grafts into a stub on a trunk that would just ever grow. when I did that, they grew like crazy. I'm going to try that some more. the thing is that the big scaffolds will take all the resources and stunt a small graft like that. It just wont' get the signal or resources to grow. But also, that is a hard graft to make and has a pretty high failure rate for me, and i think even higher on a trunk.
Ok, thanks. Grafting in a particular spot on a 2-3 year old tree was really plan B. I have notched right above a bud where I want the scaffold to grow out (plan A). I am attempting to train the tree as a modified central leader. Also trying to find a mail order nursery to purchase a maiden. Found some in the UK but none in the US. Odd! Anyway, thanks for all the info.
@@joecrocco5501 Well don't get too hung up on perfection either. It's a okay to have branches closer together here and there, or you an bend branches around to point in another direction and stuff like that. If the tree is not too large in diameter, you might get away with a chip bud if you can find a really fat scion. but there is the same problem getting it to grow.
Can you wrap with jute after the new stuff ?
sure, you can wrap with anything really. Just remember, immobilize the grafts whatever it takes and cut the wrapping free before it really starts to constrict. People used to use string a lot, then they used Raffia, because it's flat. The real advantage to plastics are they stretch really tight, but if they are thin enough, they also stretch a little with growth, so you can leave them on longer. But if you can immobilize the graft and don't let it strangle, you can use whatever.
Can you use bees wax to seal afterwards?
the old grafting waxes are usualy some mixture of wax, fat and pine pitch I have tried parafin wax candles, but it is pretty awkward to put the wax on and I think it is too brittle when cold to work really well. You might be able to manage it though.
that grafting tape is the fake one, its more like food wrap than a grafting tape. the real one is parafilm. its not cheap its tougher and better.
Do you do anything for pest control?
No, except thinning and picking up fallen fruits.
One question I had that you didn't address is how careful do you need to be about sanitation in grafting. Do you ever sanitize your knife with rubbing alcohol or take any other precautions?
Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Bottom line is that disease is spread by cuts, so if you're switching trees or varieties during grafting it's safest to sterilize. I use hydrogen peroxide in a squirt bottle, others use bleach water or alcohol.
@@SkillCult Hello. I’ve just came across your very thoughtful and Informative grafting videos. I haven’t yet tried to graft anything, but we do have a few apple trees, and I am interested in attempting to graft this spring. Excuse the newbie question, but In theory and if practicing, could I cleft graft or whip and tongue graft an Apple scion to one of our Crap Apple trees? Thanks for the the teaching videos.
Steve
@@MrFungi2012 Yep, crab apples are often used as rootstock for apple trees.
@@SkillCult Ok. Thank you. Even a 20-something yr old gnarly Crab?
I will collect a few dormant apple scions this winter and store them in fridge until spring per your suggestions for storage. I have a Honey Crisp, a Stayman’s Winesap, a Wealthy, and an unknown variety to work with. But first, I look forward to practicing my cuts on other non apple branches. Your grafting series is the best and easiest to understand teaching tool I have found thus far. And I have ordered the Grafter’s Handbook by Garner.
Thank you again.
@@MrFungi2012 genetically it's compatible. logistics, size, strategy are a different thing. I don't have any vids of doing super tangly trees, but this might help understand how I approach frameworking. ua-cam.com/video/MkbZfkl64tQ/v-deo.html
Could i use lithium grease (used for bearings and stuff)?
dunno. Doesn't seem like the best choice, but it might work. Latex paint works and it's easy to get. Less messy too.
thanks for replying, i have some latex wall paint.. guess might be okay since its water based. Your videos are inspiring, today i marked branches i want to try grafting with next spring, keep up being a good teacher! Like how you said its a good techinque to have in your tool box :)
I am not sure if you will se or answer this, but I am not finding where to get an answer. I have grafted apples to pears using the modified cleft graft. They took pretty well but have 1 problem on several. If I do graft pretty far on the rootstocks edge it takes well but does not want to cover the rootstock limb and grows on the outside of the limb with a thin attachment layer. With rapid growth it will shoot 6 or more feet then when bird lands on it will break off. I have a few idea on grafts to add to it to give it more strength sort of like a wrap around or drill thru the 2 pieces with a new scion that hopefully will take to all and act like a weld. Any one ever see any grafts like I am talking of? I have 1 now trying out I grafted to rootstock and approach graft to last years graft. I am changing over flowering pears to fruit stocks and also trying to save some old apples from my childhood days
One way to handle that is stop using cleft grafts and use bark/rind grafts instead. If the stock is large, put several around the outside and cut some off when the stock is healed over. Also, yes, wrap a lot and tight.
@@SkillCult I have had some of the bark grafts also do much the same. I have been told these two can never graft together at some other graft groups. yet I currently have at least 15 great grafts of apples to bradford pear. But once these grafts do a scab over and only a mild bond to the host tree. My question is a second graft? You think it is possible to join these last year grafts with a second scion that connects host and last year scion? I understand from a looks issue it will be a little odd but if all these on this frankenstein tree take can pick and choose later. I really appreciate your reading and answer of my question. I often put your channel on and let it run most of the day as I go about doing other things and often catch something I missed the first dozen times LOL
Can I use wood glue instead of white glue?
yep. as far as I know it is basically the same. thick latex paint is probably better than either though.
@@SkillCult I went to home depot and they didn't have latex paint. So I used white glue (Elmer) for my bark grafting yesterday. Let's see how they will turn out :).