#10MinuteTalk
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- We see a lot of misinformation/confusion on the interwebs about co-witnessing red dots and holographic sights with the iron sights on AR’s or pistols. Are you supposed to line up your red dot with your irons? Can you use your irons to sight in your red dot? What’s the point of co-witnessing in the first place and how important is it really? Rob Morell joins Jimmy and Mark in this episode to debunk some myths we’ve seen about this topic!
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"Put the thing on the thing, pull the thing" - Perfect summary of a red dot, and in "dad speech" too!
Precisely! 😂
When using 1/3 your iron sights and optic don't line up having 2 different cheek welds when switching between irons and optic... where as with absolute if your optic dies just flip up your sights and keep shooting without adjustment.
Or better yet use the rear sight as a ghost ring and get close enough for a combat scenario…
I feel like the absolute co-witness is only an issue when you visually look down the optic and your rear sight is up. In my opinion, keep your front sight up, back sight down, and focus on the dot not the front sight.
For a red dot on a pistol, I don't care about absolute cowitness, I care if my irons are obstructed by the design of the red dot in case I need the backup sighting method. When shtf, I care about aiming accurate shots to stop the threat, not whether everything lines up.
Absolute co-witness doesn’t change the fact that the optic is used two eyes open so you won’t see the front sight unless you choose to focus on it. The point of co-witnessing, to me at least, is that you can use the window of the red dot(eotech in my case) as a giant ghost ring for the front sight (fixed front sight) and make accurate enough shots within 50m without needing to stop and flip up the rear sight based simply on muscle memory and consistent cheek weld 🤔…
Oh yeah, you can also use the co-witness to re-zero your optic if you have to remove the optic and put it back on. Lastly I can then transition from one gun with an optic to a different gun that has only iron sights and not have to worry about which cheek weld I’m supposed to use. Co-witness for the win 🥇…
Amazing explanation. Thank you!
This really helped. I out a red dot on a beretta 1301 and I kept wanting to have the dot be right where my front sight was, but the red dot always seemed to be moving. Ended up spending more time trying to line up the irons and red dot rather than actual shooting. It was really frustrating. I wish I could just take the blade sight off the front of this thing.
Nice conversation. Suggestion topics for ideas id like to hear about is the 10 min talk on the 7mm-08 Rem and also 6.5 creedmoor vs .264 win mag. Awesome podcast 👊
Very helpful. Thanks!
Thanks for covering the flip up rear sight deal.... I have noticed this. Typically only use it at longer range on a bright day. Maybe I should just turn it down but even low power it does improve the clarity.
Love my Strikefire II on my Saint Pistol. Great podcast.
Love my $150 crossfire. I’ve dropped it downstairs, had it next to my driver seat and caught it directly w my boot getting in, and also getting out, and so far, even w only one mounting screw, still holds my zero.
I do an absolute on my front sight post rifles, BUT my rear sights fold down and out of the way. So therefore I can keep the same cheek weld. But when my rear sight is down, I don't even focus on my fsp, I literally only focus on my fsp if my rear sight is up.
That's how it is supposed to be. I tell people they have to "ignore" the front post while using the red dot. If it feels too weird to ignore the front post - then it needs to be changed out for a front flip up, and keep it flipped down.
Awesome thanks guys!
Great discussion and explanation
On both of my firearms, one rifle, one pistol. Neither one of them line up with the back-up irons. But both dots do sit just to the left when my irons are lined up. I trust them both independently.
When I was sighting in my red dot, when I was finished I noticed it was sitting right on top of my front sight post
I have Daniel Defense V7 SLW with Daniel Defense rear & front iron sights, which vortex red dot should I get to have absolute co-witness
I have gone to the range, realized my shake-awake red dot battery was dead, then just started shooting with my fixed backup irons. I imagine the same scenario could play out in a life and death situation. I now keep backup batteries in the grip, but backup fixed irons are durable and always ready.
Thanks guys 👍🏼
I got a psa rifle and it came with a fixed a2 front sight. Is there anyway to put a scope on it without having to take off that front a2 sight? With the pins and having to have a gas system and everything, would it be possible to mount a lpvo? Maybe offset or anything? Because I really want a scope without having to buy all that stuff to add and take off things to add an actual scope. They cannot be offset or cowitnessed could they?
Flip the backups down and its not an issue
The front sight post is a hard guide for me and it being a 1/3, I don't have to put it down to really use my sight.
Romeo5 or romeo7s ? Trying to decide. Most of my flashlights use AAA so I since I have a bulk of them I'm leaning towards the 7s. Is that a good call?
Very well explained and thanks. I’m new to AR’s and have MBUS rear sight with F marked front site. I wanted to go with lower third red dot sighting but wasn’t sure. You’ve answered my question and confirmed where I wanted to go. Thanks again. You’ve got a new “Subscriber” here. 🙌🏼
Maybe this is an edge case, but if you have severe astigmatism an absolute co-witness with a peep sight of sufficiently small aperture size will allow you to eliminate light bloom. Particularly at lower brightness settings.
(Such as with a fixed front sight and slimline A2 rear sight on an AR)
co witnessing is an initial action before firing the gun and actually zeroing in the red dot in the range
No no you’re supposed to sight red dot to irons red dot goes down and have to use irons you know you are going to hit the same spot and this is per the U.S Army infantry handbook
I'd love to here about the cheytac rounds
Awesome Gentlemen! Thanks
Thanks for tuning in!
How does it defeat the purpose if I cowittness and just flip the sights down? They are backup right?
I totally agree. I don’t see the point in giving up all that real estate in my reflex window. After all it’s only 33 * 23 mm. If I need my irons off it comes.
Should the dot be located in center of optic when zeroing?
I use my iron sights on. My edc to find the red dot quickly after I see the red dot I disregard the iron sightx,also I use both eyes
Just Bought the Ruger carbine decided to go with the 1/3 co witness .
Just the free up my ability of not resting my cheek on the stock
I can hit things from a reasonable distance with my Gen 5 Glock 34 with both the iron sights and the RMR but, they are not co-witnessed. The irons are in the lower third of the RMR window and when I have the red dot centered on the target, it does not line up with the sights and I have learned to use them independent of one another. I don’t understand what I did wrong but, I’ve learned to work with what I have.
Hearing this discussion while adding the account of a lazer from inside the chamber would help my mind wrap around this whole thing, possibly.
If I understand correctly - the lazer and red dot sight would align above the 1/3'rd co-witness without the backup rear sight. With the rear sight flipped up the lazer would now lollipop on the front sight and the red dot would be aligned at a distance above that???
GREAT VIDEO. One question. This “absolute” co-witness thing is new to me. During my time as a grunt we ran CCO optics on our M4’s. Never ran the rear irons with it just lolipoped the red dot with the front A2. Is there even a need for the rear irons at all? Call me old school but I’d keep my rear iron down “pop ups” but still have it installed in case of battery or equipment failure. I see too many wannabe operators all teched out & if their equipment shits the bed, they’re out of the fight. Thoughts?
A big part of the purpose of a red dot is speed of aiming. When using a red dot, you need to "ignore" the front post. Do not take even a split second to try to align it and "lolipop" the red dot onto the front post. If it just feels "too weird" to try to ignore the front post, then change it out for a flip up front sight and flip it down when using the red dot.
The front post is for use in conjunction with the rear flip ups - if or when the red dot cannot function (battery, broken, or loss of zero for any other reason). If the red dot goes out, you should be able to aim, using the iron sights (front and rear) while looking through the glass of the red dot.
With absolute co-witness, if you have the red dot on, and both irons up - they will align. But don't try to use the red dot as if it was your rear iron sights, in conjunction with your front sight.
Relatively new to AR’s and red dot sights, but not new to shooting and firearms. Is it necessary to have iron sights mounted if you have a red dot? I’d rather just have the red dot and magnifier and do away completely with iron sights. Like you mentioned, I’m not worried about battery life with advances in them and me personally, it’s not for home defense but mainly sport.
If its strictly for sport i would say just red dot is fine. But with how cheap and light weight and out of the way magpul mbus sights are, id run back up irons anyway just incase u happen to need that gun for some bad shit.
As one with astigmatism, i tried the peep cowitness thing, it dies work. However, prism or lvpo is the obvious answer.
I went with a 45 deg offset red dot and iron sights at 0 deg on all my AR setups. 45 deg offset iron sights and 0 deg red dot is another similar option. I say skip the entire co-witness setup, I see no benefit over using an offset setup but only cons with the co-witness .
That's what I'm thinking! Red Dot is my primary and then back up Troy 45 degree folding, offset irons. Plus it is darn fun tilting the AR and shooting with the 45 degree irons. 😄
I've done it with two ar 15 and keep thinking my rail is loose when it's not lined up. It makes me just want 1x8 or 10 red dot 45 degree just use a red dot and iron separate or it will drive you nuts.
You are SUPPOSED to use the red dot - or - irons.... separate. You EITHER focus on the dot, while ignoring the front post, or you turn off the dot, and flip up the rear.
If what you mean is that you have a front post and it's too weird to ignore it while using the red dot - then you should switch it out for flip up front irons.
Good ten
So I have a vortex strike fire 2 on my colt le6920..it's been a great sight but when sighting in it was hitting extremely high. Eventually I adjusted the red dot down to meet with the front iron and it was absolutely tits on! But the question is why wasn't the red dot hitting right without the iron being lined up? To hit right it's got to b on the iron and I'm not sure that's right? Been thinking about calling vortex but figured I'd try here-might b a simple fix
So you sighted the red dot in, but it was hitting really high? It sounds like it wasn't sighted in, in that case. Once adjusting the red dot to match up with your point of impact, the rounds should go directly where your red dot is pointed. Once it's in that position, it's certainly possible it may be right in line with your irons, but that's not necessarily a guarantee that it will be. This is something that is actually more easily explained over the phone if you'd prefer to give us a call! 800-426-0048 Extension 5
@@VortexNation I didn't realize I sight the dot to the point of impact..I will try that-thanks!
@@VortexNation This. I always thought this concept was completely stupid. I use matech and knights adjustable rears. Why would I remove the capability of a rear adjustable by setting it to "cowitness" which is good only for a specific range. On a non-adjustable rear, the only way I can get the aperture to co-witness perfectly is to adjust the mount through shimming or changing mounts. If you don't have an adjustable rear for elevation you're just SOL or money to try multiple mounts you are just SOL. I'd rather shoot an adjustable rear sight the way it was intended, and be able to adjust and engage at multiple ranges.
what about a 45 offset red dot? can you not have the best of both worlds? irons and dot separately?
Irons and red dot ARE uses separately. EITHER line up both the rear and front irons (looking through the glass, with the red dot turned off) - OR - Just focus on the target and put the red dot on target, while IGNORING the front post, with the rear irons flipped down.
If it just feels too weird to try to ignore the front post - then switch it out for a flip up front iron - and flip it down when using the red dot.
So the dot should be a tad under the iron dot ?
Try not to think as much of the dot's location, but rather where the front sight lands in the window.
Guys it's just preference
I used a bore sight and overlapped it’s dot with the red dot from my sight. I haven’t shot it yet. How close do you think it will be?
What distance did you bore sight at and what distance are you planning on zeroing?
Can you help me please ?!. I'm 63 & brand new to the AR platform. Santa brought me a brand new S&W M&P 15 22 model 12722. It came with an M&P-100 red / green dot optic with no sights. I added UTG 755 & 955 sights. They co-witness 100%. My goal is to obtain 1/3 co-witness. What height riser should I order to obtain the 1/3 co-witness as Amazon has UTG risers in .5", 083", & 1 inch. I just don't know ! Great video / very informative ! Thank You & Hello from Pittsburgh, Pa. area...
When I bought my AR, it only had a front post sight. I decided hey , I’ll go buy a red dot to put on her, and it’ll be alright. The one I bought, when you look through it, the front sight is in the freaking way. Then I looked up front sight AR removal. That requires punches or a gunsmith, and another video I saw he used a grinder to grind the ends off of one of the pins, then pushed them out. Until I do that, I’m just pretending the front sight isn’t there. I have her zeroed in at 50 yards and it works great. Either the front sight is coming off or I’m getting a flip up rear sight
Can't you just get a riser mount.
@@derekfrey3671 that’s what I ended up doing
Too many people. Just draw what you mean on a whiteboard.
Homie it is literally a podcast