By the way, apparently Justin Chadwick, who directed 'The Other Boleyn Girl', is going to be directing that 'Becoming Elizabeth' drama. theforgeentertainment.co.uk/production/becoming-elizabeth/ Oh boy...
@@savagedarksider5934 I have not although I am vaguely aware of it (something about Britain and France helping the Confederates winning Gettysburg and then all the alt history stuff following that going up to the 20th Century if I have got that right?)
yes, Gregory has heavily contributed in spreading doubt about what can be considered real history. The woman is the queen of conspiracy theories and I credit her with playing a huge (nefarious) part in fostering the 'post truth' movement. I do not know why Gregory hates major Tudor era figures so much (e.g. Margaret Beaufort, Anne Boleyn) - maybe she was traumatised by a bad history teacher and has spent her writer's career taking revenge.....
It hurts me that Phillipa Gregory used so many of the negative rumours and cliches for their sheer dramatic value. Such as the accusations of Anne and George having a relationship. (Worse, in the book it happens) Not to mention the ever present portrayal of Thomas Boleyn as a villian.
@@CeciliaCessseeezyCornejo She does seem to backpedal a bit in The Boleyn Inheritance, hinting that Jane lied due to her jealousy of Anne. But that does seem to contradict the book.
The book is even crazier. At least it stayed consistent in regards to time periods, compared to what the movie did. In the book, we actually see Anne and Mary grow up. Same with Mary’s children. I don’t know if we can conclusively prove the paternity of Mary’s children because they didn’t have paternity tests back then. We have to just assume they are her first husband’s kids. That being said, everything else Gregory invented was just that-an invention.
Read some of Alison Weir's Tudor series, she postulates that Jane Seymour was pregnant when they got married and Anne of Cleves actually had a child after being seduced by a cousin before she married Henry.
@@DragonMama-yt3zs To be fair to Alison Weir, she is crystal clear that she made stuff up. She always includes author’s notes at the end on what she made up and what she didn’t, and spots where the record is silent.
Henry being bland seems like a pretty serious flaw for any Tudor project. Surely, whatever you’re focusing on and whatever angle you’re going for, the one thing Henry VIII should never, ever be is bland.
Gotta love PG for taking the affair between Henry and Anne becoming fully sexual and BOTH parties being very much in love and nearing the marriage they had fought for and turning it into RAPE followed by hate before Anne could even be crowned. That's such an insult to how complicated Anne's downfall was when the husband who signed off on her execution was only recently quite in love with her and publicly defending the marriage and their child.
According to contemporary sources, Henry and Anne were jumping each other in France after they got married. There was no source of hatred between them until 1536.
Yup, much as PG is salacious and likes to take liberties, it still reads as a carefully thought-out take on history compared to the absurdity that was this film. The waste of all the great actors in it is a crime. Natalie Portman could've been an amazing Anne Boleyn if they gave her anything to work with.
It’s depressing that the ‘other Boleyn girl’ movie was my very first introduction into Tudor history when I was but a small girl. But it interested me enough to research what the hell I was watching, so it was worth it.
With me it was PG's book, and I was about 20 at the time. I was so immersed in the world she depicted that I got on the internet and started looking stuff up straight away. It was a bit disappointing to find out how many liberties she took but I still can't really hate her. I tried reading one or two other books by her, about Queen Elizabeth, and they definitely didn't make the same impression, so she must've got something right with The Other Boleyn Girl, writing-wise - if it got me to dig for truth, job done. Not sure if it would have been the same with this movie adaptation (yuck) but if it sparked your interest, then so much the better, at least something good came out of its existence (plus when something is that bad, we get good fodder for rants, which is a weird upside) 🙂;-)
Tbf I know it’s not accurate because I’m a history nerd, but I watched it for the first time last night with my boyfriend and it was alright in my opinion and a lil steamy at points. Good for a date night film.
The one thing I liked about the film was probably Catherine of Aragon (inaccurate as she looked), she had a sort of quiet dignity which seems like what the real Catherine would have tried to maintain. The scene where she slaps down Anne and Mary is especially great, pity the rest of the film is so bad
For some reason, I decided to celebrate my fourteenth birthday in February 2008, five months earlier, so as to see this film with my mother and some friends. I remember just gritting my teeth throughout the duration of the film, mumbling about what was "wrong" and how such-and-such didn't happen. My mother just wanted me to have a good time, and neither one of my friends really understood why I was so upset. I was really hoping that it would have been a pleasant experience, and i wanted so badly to like the film, but I couldn't do it, I just couldn't...
I salute you, sir, for you have compelled me to go back to my original critique on this film and do it again. Back then I didn't have the writing skills I have now.
"Then they sent her off to France as punishment" - I cannot think of a worse fate. :O "Fifteen years in France teaches a man how to hate. Fifteen years of wearing perfume! Fifteen years of eating frogs! Fifteen years of saying 'Pardon'! And all because of you!" - Anne Boleyn, upon returning home to England, probably.
This movie was so badly inaccurate and horrible. Mary wasn’t present at the execution and didn’t take Elizabeth with her at the end. As you pointed out, Anne didn’t just go to France for a few months-she had been at the courts of Margaret of Austria then France for years. Ugh 😩
Good review of this movie. I don't think it was ever meant to be historically accurate. You forgot the scene at the end of the movie where Mary comes to take Elizabeth and brings her out to the country to raise with her children. No, I don't think so.
I think we need an anger meter for these rants, or a blood preasure meter. Also Cavalier don't give film makers ideas next they'll Joan of Arc film with the torches with IKEA motto's on them as they burn Joan.
I want mine if they show Joan “s Flawed Side for once I’m not trying to demonize her but she was human most people portray her a perfect little angel 😒
The book is a chocolate...not a truffle, maybe an M&M, but the movie was something that can be the same colour as chocolate, and it ain't chocolate. How did Peter Morgan get away with handing the same screenplay twice? I can't believe no one noticed.
Well, I briefly covered some of season 1 back in Tudor Rant 1 and I feel I should do a bit more of a proper take down of it, no matter how much pain it will cause me!
I couldn’t even finish watching the first episode! Everything was just so bad...and the names, Lola, Kenna and Bash 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ no it’s just too painful
Kirsty McEneny another thing that annoys me is Jeanne d Albert in the show is reduced to a couple of sentences in one scene concerning the fact she was the bane of Catherine De Medici existence and it was a significant power player at the time and was a Elizabeth sympathizer and they bump up the murder of Mary “s uncle Francis de guise early and her uncle Charles The Cardinal of Lorraine isn’t at all scene and they downplayed the role of the de guise government and give it to a fictional lord I could go on and on but that would take all day .
Grace Futrell it’s really sad that they feel they have to re-write history or that they can make the “story” better! These people played significant roles and their lives are fascinating and dramatic enough they don’t need dumbed down or sexed up or completely erased in some cases.
Even the side saddle was wrong. That's a Victorian style side saddle. 15th century side saddles would have been more of a planchette style or she would have ridden pillion. More practically, many women DID ride astride although it was frowned upon.
I hate Gregory for many reasons, she needs to stop her habit of taking rumors about historical women that were meant to slander them and try and make them empowering. It understand the desire to try and do right by women in history that were done wrong but she sucks at it.
‘Like the Tudors with a Hollywood Budget’ Gotta love critics with no sense of history. So A man for All seasons, Anne of 1000 days, and Mary Queen of Scots ‘71 were all B movie affairs? I saw this in Theaters the same weekend Tudors closed its 2nd season, so I got to see Anne beheaded twice. Redmayne was doing a lot of Tudor films: this, Elizabeth I, and The Golden Age. Ever see the 2003 version of TOBG? Natasha McElihone, Jodi May, Jared Harris, Philip Glienster, and Steven Mackintosh.
I have it on DVD. I started to watch it but was baffled since it looked like it was made in the late 80's/early 90's from the picture quality, even though it was made in 2003!
I mean, Natalie and Scarlett did a great job in this movie but this movie is what I call hysterical fiction, a term here that means a movie or book based on historical time periods that have events that have no bearing on actual history and it makes you laugh more than you can say.
It was the Earl of Ormonde (James Butler). Also, Harry Percy was said to have told Wolsey & his father that "We have gone so far in front of witnesses" (WTTE) that they considered themselves married. Or at least betrothed. But, as usual, Phillipa Gregory takes a story & turns it on its head
I am so glad this exists.....I am fed up to the back teeth of dramas that go nowhere near Elizabeth R or I, Claudius. Not just this but really are fast and loose with fact. Who are these dramas for?
The sad part is, the book describes Mary's life in a way she might have felt. She is a teenager that got married, was a mistress of the king, her husband died and she finds someone she loves. That part was nice to read, since we know so little about her in contrast to Anne.
I wish they ran shipping companies like that these days. "Captain, should we wait like an hour and unload the passengers at a proper port?" "Nah, this rocky beach should be fine. Launch the lifeboats and make them row ashore!"
I gave up on The Other Boleyn Girl when William Carey said he was "to be made a Gentleman of the Privy Council." Did that not sound wrong to anyone in the room?
I could rewatch your vids over and over. I really enjoy watching people moaning about inaccurate historical dramas... What does that say about me, I wonder.
If you want to watch a show with peak historical accuracy in plot and characters watch the 1976 show the devils crown based off the reigns of Henry II, Richard I and John it’s all on UA-cam and is very enjoyable
loved this! Is The Devil's Crown on dvd? I never found it on video years ago. Brian Cox was ace as Henry is, Jane Lapotaire as Eleanor of Aquitaine and my fave John Duttine as King John.
Kate Cooper Eric & myself are both Australian... between ‘Poida’ in ‘Full Frontal’ (I guess it was probably like SNL, but as I’ve never seen the latter, I can only _assume_ so from the sketches people have described), his role in ‘The Castle’, & obviously, ‘Chopper’, he was put on the map.
11:43 - 13:15 is this a Tudor drama or porn film thats being reviewed what is half of that seriously. Also take a shot every time Cavalier makes his angry sound and you will be drunk enough to watch this.
Methinks I see a Gregory fan. It’s not Cavaliers fault that what they make of her writing. She wrote it🤷♀️. You have to be drunk to watch these butcheries of history.
@@mangot589 Well ignoring the fact its baiased, the whole getting in to anne's pants and whole "Bed-hoping part" is just weird to me. How many other reviews have you seen like that? i will accept i'm more of a social puritan but still i'm not watching a history drama or any drama just for that.
I would recommend for you to watch the TV Series Isabel of Castile... it's pretty accurate as far as my limited knowledge of the history of Spain goes. It's in my opinion an example of a good historical drama. Sure, they changed some stuff, but they kinda had to.
I'm finishing up the script for the Quick Review (about 10-15 mins long) soon and will probably recording it in the week some time. I'll probably give it a full hour plus rant at some point in the future.
Am I the only one who found the premise of this movie and book in general a bit sexist I mean the good girl is blonde and just wants to get married and have a family and a bad girl wants to be in charge of her own destiny in a position of power and gets killed because she wasn’t in her place not a good message for women 🤮
I mean...sigh. Listen, I truly get Phillipa wanted the book to be shocking and dramatized, but like....imagine your Anne, and you see that they are making a film about you and its literary every single made up lie that lead up to your death, knowing damn well, you were innocent. I would be furious and heartbroken. It's not like she hasn't been through enough? Smeare campaign that lasted for 500 years and only really recently I would say within the last 100 years, has she had a redemption arch and then theres phillipa lmfao girl let Anne rest in peace 😂
This was absolutely hilarious! Well done! I’ve subscribed to your channel and look forward to more videos of you thoroughly ripping Tudor adaptations apart.
Thanks! This is actually one of my unscripted videos, which are a bit more all over the place compared to my scripted ones. Currently working on the script for Tudor Rant Part 5, looking at the second Season of 'The Spanish Princess'.
Mary Boleyn's descendents that were later prominent courtiers include Lettice Knollys, Henry Carey 1st Baron Hunsdon (a general), Robert Devereux Earl of Essex.
Philippa Gregory has novels told from the POV of a fictional person living during these periods and honestly those are the better ones in my opinion. For example "The Queen's Fool" and " her newer series that spans the English Civil war and the Restoration
This was painful. Not one character was recognizable as their historical counterpart nor were the historical events addressed in any real way. Calling this historical is like waving a grape over a bottle of vinegar and calling it wine. Funniest to me was Eric Bana's Henry VIII; why were these two females fighting over this cardboard cutout? I saw nothing attractive, fascinating, majestic, nothing. He's mildly pretty and that's about it. Nothing a girl would risk her neck for. Argh, it's just bloody awful and I wish I could unsee it. Even the other version with Jodie May was better than this tripe. I imagine all the actors in it wish they could erase it from their resumes.
In the book, it was made clear that they didn't go throw with the incense thing. In the book it was more of a see she is that desperate and probably where the rumor came from. I guess. Phillipa Gregory is still one of my guilty please authors. Cringe in fear. I have read far worse.
I think this novel (and I do like it despite its flaws) may have been the start of the Pimp Daddy Boleyn characterization--the idea that Thomas Boleyn actively encouraged his daughters into the king's bed to benefit the family. I don't know if that's all that accurate, since daughters of noble families were most valued for their marriageability, and an illicit affair, even with the king, would damage that. Of course Thomas benefited somewhat from Henry's interest in his daughters, though perhaps not quite so much as legend would have it--he was a respected diplomat even beforehand. And besides, what else COULD a courtier do in a country where one man held absolute power and his favor could be all that stood between your family and ruin? But I don't think it actually would have gone so far as Thomas ordering his daughters to sleep with Henry. This characterization is at its most ridiculous in Mademoiselle Boleyn by Robin Maxwell...Thomas orders Mary Boleyn to sleep with King Francis while in France. How this is going to help the Boleyns' fortunes IN ENGLAND is anyone's guess!
The idea of Thomas Boleyn pimping his daughters goes back to 19th century. Why, I don't know. Most modern historians believe it still but its not true!!
This movie was cringeworthy at best. i don't know how the cast could have filmed this and not laughed every single second cause the dialogue was ridiculous. Oh well, there are some roles actors take that make their career and other roles that pays their bills just saying : / Philippa Gregory I swear looks for just one random, unverified rumor from that era and thinks "yes, I can make a book out of this" and its sad to see a lot of people take this as fact when you can easily go seek verified information like go to Anne Boleyn Files or seek primary sources. Philippa Gregory will one day answer for her crimes smh
May I suggest "Rant de la Medieval" for the White Queen? Sounds more fancy and royal-like... Also, while it was the contended theory at the time, when Philippa Gregory wrote the book (not when it was published, but when she was *writing* the book), Eric Ives' biography - which conclusively proved Anne was born in 1501 and the younger sister - had not come out. So there was room for debate. And, in Philippa's defence, she *does* mention everything in her book - France, Ormond, etc. That's all the people writing the movie that changed it.
Jamestopboy True I think there is more leeway about her age. Although we do not know for certain I don’t think there has ever been any serious disagreement Anne was younger than Mary.
Peter Morgan lowered himself to adapting that atrocious novel?! How desperate for work can one be? Was the man living under a bridge, eating off handouts?! Someone whose talent produced 'the special relationship' and 'years and years' should know better than associate himself with adapting a writer whose output is a cross between Mills & Boons and conspiracy theories.
The Laughing Cavalier Still looking forward to all your upcoming videos. As a fellow history junky, I really enjoy someone pointing the issues with films and shows that claim to be (the worst phrase in media) “a different take the true story”. And I love that someone else also has a problem with the gross inaccuracies of the costumes. There’s just something that rubs me the wrong way about The Six, I would like to see a more studied-up Tudor person take a jab at it. Anyways, love your content on your channel.
Honestly it’s just them dressed up and fancy outfit singing not dramatizing events and I’m used to seeing musicals into acts they stayed the events but they don’t play them out and I love musical theater and they dig right into the stereotype of Anne Boleyn when they said they were trying to break The stereotypes of the six wives but they don’t do a good job at it .
Grace Futrell they did the opposite of what they said they were doing. Yes they were strong women but what the show doesn’t show is their actual strengths. They were deeply religious women living in a troubled time that the music just glosses over. And making Anne Boleyn as nothing more then sex tease is just insulting to her.
You could’ve mentioned Thomas Moore was nowhere to be seen or mentioned which I found annoying considering my mom is one of those people who worships the ground he walked on 😒
To be honest i don't so much mind the "what if every spicy rumour was true?" Take on historical fiction as long as the drama follows a coherent chain of logic, the characters have depth, and the settings and costumes feel at least evocative of authenticity. An excellent of drama like that is Showtime's The Borgias.
1] Henry shows more of his tender and sympathetic side with Mary, whereas he fluctuates between desperately p****-whipped and bitter, vindictive jerk, when he's with Anne. The viewer is meant to believe that Anne's cruelty came from the feeling that she'd been heartbroken and betrayed by her family, and she focused her jaded anger on the one person she could actually hurt with it: Mary. 2] The only thing I like about Philippa Gregory's work is her vividly-detailed writing style. You really feel like you're there, watching the characters from behind a pillar, when you read her stuff. That being said...she seems to treat Anne as if her daily life was a show called "Real Housewives of the Renaissance". She seems to believe that to be a strong woman, who's worthy of admiration, you have to be a nasty b***h. You have to not care who you have to step on, nor the means by which you step on them, in order to achieve your life goals. The movie hints at this very idea at the beginning, when Thomas Boleyn is talking to his wife, Elizabeth, about their daughters' futures. Speaking of Thomas, he and Elizabeth get much kinder treatments in the movie, rather than the incredibly cold-hearted, cynical, mean-spirited people they're portrayed as in the book. 3] I'm pretty sure the lighting has something to do with setting the mood for specific scenes. Big court events are shown with gold tones, because it's supposed to be the peak of decadence and excitement. Meanwhile, scenes with a bluish overlay, like Anne's execution, are meant to be confusing and scary. Side-note about that scene: I couldn't believe that they left out the role Mary's eldest child, Catherine Carey, played as a lady-in-waiting in the Tower, during her aunt's last days. Also, I think they had the crowd fall completely silent in the exact moment Anne died, because they shared a collective astonishment that it actually happened. Both in real-life and in historical fiction, everyone thought this was going to be just one more grand show for Henry, and that he was going to stop the execution at the last minute and send his now-former wife somewhere far away. Those present were stunned when he allowed it to happen, and we can assume that more than a few of them started to question what type of man their country really had on its throne. (5/27/2022)
About the family wanting Mary to marry Henry...in all fairness, in the novel this was put forth as well, and the family planned to claim, and intimidate William Carey into claiming, that the marriage was never consummated and could be annulled.
I have never understood why so much "historical" fiction is such trash. My personal favorite examples are "Gladiator" and "Alexander the Great". Neither is from the Tudor period, but you seem to have that base covered quite well.
I read the book well before there was any news about adapting it, and frankly I wasn't mad about it. Too coarse and vulgar, and the incest scene is just...urgh! I thought Eric Bana was badly cast but I thought Natalie Portman was quite a good choice but as you say, her portrayal was off. And why get all these americans playing English people?
You could tackle Nicholas and Alexandra, with The Fourth Doctor as Rasputin... Not that it's "lesser-known" as such, but it does seem to be overshadowed by Dr. Zhivago.
Dear Laughing Cavalier! Do you really think that "The Other Boleyn Girl" (ugh, at least in russian localization that sounds bit more meaning) deserves a proper Rant from you? With Phillipa Gregory, wooden lead and incest? Seriously, why so much inbreeding? WHY??? Are you sure you want to make a rant? Wait, that doesn't sound... ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO MAKE A RANT? Thank you!
@@The_Laughing_Cavalier I'd be really upset if you'll waste your time and ranting talent on this. If I've been granted a choice to hear a rant from you about "The other Boleyn girl" and rant about Nazi-made equivalent of "Night to Remember", I rather have you ranting about Nazis on boat. From what I've heard, Nazis put in that film more effort than Julian Fellows.
The movie is being judged as historically inaccurate, but I don't think neither book nor film was ever meant to be seen as depicting what really took place. It's loosely based on historical events, that's all. Aside from that, both book and film are rather bad imo :P
Hello thank you for this video............... well this film is one of the worst it’s mainly about the Boleyn sisters and the Boleyn Family you’ve got Thomas Boleyn Who pawn out his daughters you’ve got Mary Boleyn who is betrayed as sweetness and light she was anything but.. then you’ve got Anne Boleyn Who in this film is crafty cruel and manipulative and will stop at nothing. 😂 this film is from Philippa Gregory‘s novel The other Boleyn girl his 😂............kim🇬🇧
Anne of a Thousand days was abysmal. The dialogue could have been written by a ten year old, (I’ve sent her to Northumberland. As far north as I could send her since we don’t OWN Scotland) or (My God, I really got it in the face that time) it’s terribly over dramatic and Richard Burton is awful as Henry V111. But Bujold was very good as Anne Boleyn and the costumes were beautiful. Of course, the historical accuracy is, as usual, non existent.
By the way, apparently Justin Chadwick, who directed 'The Other Boleyn Girl', is going to be directing that 'Becoming Elizabeth' drama.
theforgeentertainment.co.uk/production/becoming-elizabeth/
Oh boy...
The Laughing Cavalier 🤦♀️
NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
For all these dramas for the Tudor Dynasty; One would think they'll make A movie or TV Series about Mary Tudor AKA " Bloody Mary. "
I know this is A unrelated question but have you read the Southern Victory Series ?
@@savagedarksider5934 I have not although I am vaguely aware of it (something about Britain and France helping the Confederates winning Gettysburg and then all the alt history stuff following that going up to the 20th Century if I have got that right?)
I’ve always said that Philippa Gregory never heard a salacious historical rumor that she didn’t take as absolute fact.
yes, Gregory has heavily contributed in spreading doubt about what can be considered real history. The woman is the queen of conspiracy theories and I credit her with playing a huge (nefarious) part in fostering the 'post truth' movement. I do not know why Gregory hates major Tudor era figures so much (e.g. Margaret Beaufort, Anne Boleyn) - maybe she was traumatised by a bad history teacher and has spent her writer's career taking revenge.....
@@stephanieking4444 She seems to particularly hate the protestant historical figures. Maybe she's catholic?
@@mittenista possibly. Her religious education might be something to look into
😂😂😂😂
She is the worst author ever. Pity that they make her stupid books into movies and series. Always disappointing.
It hurts me that Phillipa Gregory used so many of the negative rumours and cliches for their sheer dramatic value. Such as the accusations of Anne and George having a relationship. (Worse, in the book it happens) Not to mention the ever present portrayal of Thomas Boleyn as a villian.
It actually happens in the book ?? 🤢🤢
@@CeciliaCessseeezyCornejo She does seem to backpedal a bit in The Boleyn Inheritance, hinting that Jane lied due to her jealousy of Anne. But that does seem to contradict the book.
The book is even crazier. At least it stayed consistent in regards to time periods, compared to what the movie did. In the book, we actually see Anne and Mary grow up. Same with Mary’s children. I don’t know if we can conclusively prove the paternity of Mary’s children because they didn’t have paternity tests back then. We have to just assume they are her first husband’s kids. That being said, everything else Gregory invented was just that-an invention.
Read some of Alison Weir's Tudor series, she postulates that Jane Seymour was pregnant when they got married and Anne of Cleves actually had a child after being seduced by a cousin before she married Henry.
@@DragonMama-yt3zs To be fair to Alison Weir, she is crystal clear that she made stuff up. She always includes author’s notes at the end on what she made up and what she didn’t, and spots where the record is silent.
Henry being bland seems like a pretty serious flaw for any Tudor project. Surely, whatever you’re focusing on and whatever angle you’re going for, the one thing Henry VIII should never, ever be is bland.
This isn't just any sword. This is a french sword, held by a expert swordsman specially sought out for beheading the former Queen of England.
Also, Anne didn’t cry. According to eyewitnesses, she was very composed and stoic. Whenever she did cry, it was only in front of her ladies.
Gotta love PG for taking the affair between Henry and Anne becoming fully sexual and BOTH parties being very much in love and nearing the marriage they had fought for and turning it into RAPE followed by hate before Anne could even be crowned. That's such an insult to how complicated Anne's downfall was when the husband who signed off on her execution was only recently quite in love with her and publicly defending the marriage and their child.
According to contemporary sources, Henry and Anne were jumping each other in France after they got married. There was no source of hatred between them until 1536.
Yup, much as PG is salacious and likes to take liberties, it still reads as a carefully thought-out take on history compared to the absurdity that was this film. The waste of all the great actors in it is a crime. Natalie Portman could've been an amazing Anne Boleyn if they gave her anything to work with.
It’s depressing that the ‘other Boleyn girl’ movie was my very first introduction into Tudor history when I was but a small girl.
But it interested me enough to research what the hell I was watching, so it was worth it.
With me it was PG's book, and I was about 20 at the time. I was so immersed in the world she depicted that I got on the internet and started looking stuff up straight away. It was a bit disappointing to find out how many liberties she took but I still can't really hate her. I tried reading one or two other books by her, about Queen Elizabeth, and they definitely didn't make the same impression, so she must've got something right with The Other Boleyn Girl, writing-wise - if it got me to dig for truth, job done. Not sure if it would have been the same with this movie adaptation (yuck) but if it sparked your interest, then so much the better, at least something good came out of its existence (plus when something is that bad, we get good fodder for rants, which is a weird upside) 🙂;-)
Tbf I know it’s not accurate because I’m a history nerd, but I watched it for the first time last night with my boyfriend and it was alright in my opinion and a lil steamy at points. Good for a date night film.
The one thing I liked about the film was probably Catherine of Aragon (inaccurate as she looked), she had a sort of quiet dignity which seems like what the real Catherine would have tried to maintain. The scene where she slaps down Anne and Mary is especially great, pity the rest of the film is so bad
I also like the Carherine of Aragon from the Tudors, I thought she conveyed the quiet steadfastness of her character pretty well.
For some reason, I decided to celebrate my fourteenth birthday in February 2008, five months earlier, so as to see this film with my mother and some friends. I remember just gritting my teeth throughout the duration of the film, mumbling about what was "wrong" and how such-and-such didn't happen. My mother just wanted me to have a good time, and neither one of my friends really understood why I was so upset. I was really hoping that it would have been a pleasant experience, and i wanted so badly to like the film, but I couldn't do it, I just couldn't...
I completely understand how you felt. I felt exactly the same way about Elizabeth, with Cate Blanchett, when I saw it.
I salute you, sir, for you have compelled me to go back to my original critique on this film and do it again. Back then I didn't have the writing skills I have now.
"Then they sent her off to France as punishment" - I cannot think of a worse fate. :O
"Fifteen years in France teaches a man how to hate. Fifteen years of wearing perfume! Fifteen years of eating frogs! Fifteen years of saying 'Pardon'! And all because of you!" - Anne Boleyn, upon returning home to England, probably.
When it comes to heaving bosoms, Sara Bolger as Princess Mary won the award.in The Tudors.
If Phillipa Gregory didn't act as if she is some historian it wouldn't bother me
This movie was so badly inaccurate and horrible. Mary wasn’t present at the execution and didn’t take Elizabeth with her at the end. As you pointed out, Anne didn’t just go to France for a few months-she had been at the courts of Margaret of Austria then France for years. Ugh 😩
Good review of this movie. I don't think it was ever meant to be historically accurate. You forgot the scene at the end of the movie where Mary comes to take Elizabeth and brings her out to the country to raise with her children. No, I don't think so.
I think we need an anger meter for these rants, or a blood preasure meter. Also Cavalier don't give film makers ideas next they'll Joan of Arc film with the torches with IKEA motto's on them as they burn Joan.
I want mine if they show Joan “s Flawed Side for once I’m not trying to demonize her but she was human most people portray her a perfect little angel 😒
Except Shakespeare.
The book is a chocolate...not a truffle, maybe an M&M, but the movie was something that can be the same colour as chocolate, and it ain't chocolate. How did Peter Morgan get away with handing the same screenplay twice? I can't believe no one noticed.
I can’t believe Cromwell had one line😂Like he played a big part in Anne’s downfall😭😭
“The Other Boleyn Girl” is like the “Titanic (1943)” of Tudor dramas.
Reign??? why bother? They didn't even get all the names correct. Much less the story, time line or costumes
Well, I briefly covered some of season 1 back in Tudor Rant 1 and I feel I should do a bit more of a proper take down of it, no matter how much pain it will cause me!
The Laughing Cavalier honestly i cant wait
I couldn’t even finish watching the first episode! Everything was just so bad...and the names, Lola, Kenna and Bash 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ no it’s just too painful
Kirsty McEneny another thing that annoys me is Jeanne d Albert in the show is reduced to a couple of sentences in one scene concerning the fact she was the bane of Catherine De Medici existence and it was a significant power player at the time and was a Elizabeth sympathizer and they bump up the murder of Mary “s uncle Francis de guise early and her uncle Charles The Cardinal of Lorraine isn’t at all scene and they downplayed the role of the de guise government and give it to a fictional lord I could go on and on but that would take all day .
Grace Futrell it’s really sad that they feel they have to re-write history or that they can make the “story” better! These people played significant roles and their lives are fascinating and dramatic enough they don’t need dumbed down or sexed up or completely erased in some cases.
Even the side saddle was wrong. That's a Victorian style side saddle. 15th century side saddles would have been more of a planchette style or she would have ridden pillion. More practically, many women DID ride astride although it was frowned upon.
I hate Gregory for many reasons, she needs to stop her habit of taking rumors about historical women that were meant to slander them and try and make them empowering. It understand the desire to try and do right by women in history that were done wrong but she sucks at it.
‘Like the Tudors with a Hollywood Budget’ Gotta love critics with no sense of history. So A man for All seasons, Anne of 1000 days, and Mary Queen of Scots ‘71 were all B movie affairs?
I saw this in Theaters the same weekend Tudors closed its 2nd season, so I got to see Anne beheaded twice.
Redmayne was doing a lot of Tudor films: this, Elizabeth I, and The Golden Age.
Ever see the 2003 version of TOBG? Natasha McElihone, Jodi May, Jared Harris, Philip Glienster, and Steven Mackintosh.
I have it on DVD. I started to watch it but was baffled since it looked like it was made in the late 80's/early 90's from the picture quality, even though it was made in 2003!
I mean, Natalie and Scarlett did a great job in this movie but this movie is what I call hysterical fiction, a term here that means a movie or book based on historical time periods that have events that have no bearing on actual history and it makes you laugh more than you can say.
It was the Earl of Ormonde (James Butler). Also, Harry Percy was said to have told Wolsey & his father that "We have gone so far in front of witnesses" (WTTE) that they considered themselves married. Or at least betrothed. But, as usual, Phillipa Gregory takes a story & turns it on its head
"Someone pissed on the Camera".... 😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I cant
I am so glad this exists.....I am fed up to the back teeth of dramas that go nowhere near Elizabeth R or I, Claudius. Not just this but really are fast and loose with fact. Who are these dramas for?
There’s a thing called a dock yard… hahah just found your channel. Love it!!
Oh yeah and Cromwell’s one line I was like …. Shees
Can’t wait for “The White Queen” rant!!
Absolutely seconded. Really curious of his take on characters such as the Nevilles and George!
I’m looking forward to hearing the thoughts on The Spanish Princess cuz that one reallyyyyyy upset me multiple times lol
I find him annoying. The narrator.
The sad part is, the book describes Mary's life in a way she might have felt. She is a teenager that got married, was a mistress of the king, her husband died and she finds someone she loves. That part was nice to read, since we know so little about her in contrast to Anne.
beach-landing picture shown
*ANGRY CAVALIER NOISES*
I wish they ran shipping companies like that these days.
"Captain, should we wait like an hour and unload the passengers at a proper port?"
"Nah, this rocky beach should be fine. Launch the lifeboats and make them row ashore!"
@@The_Laughing_Cavalier bahaha sounds about right
I gave up on The Other Boleyn Girl when William Carey said he was "to be made a Gentleman of the Privy Council."
Did that not sound wrong to anyone in the room?
"I must go and see my constituants, oh heres two of them now" haha that made my day
I could rewatch your vids over and over. I really enjoy watching people moaning about inaccurate historical dramas... What does that say about me, I wonder.
I only discovered you the other day and I absolutely love your videos. You Do cheer me up 😂
If you want to watch a show with peak historical accuracy in plot and characters watch the 1976 show the devils crown based off the reigns of Henry II, Richard I and John it’s all on UA-cam and is very enjoyable
Edward Hyde I had just commented the same a couple of days ago! Great minds...lol
loved this! Is The Devil's Crown on dvd? I never found it on video years ago. Brian Cox was ace as Henry is, Jane Lapotaire as Eleanor of Aquitaine and my fave John Duttine as King John.
Is Thomas Boleyn the same actor who played Cromwell in Wolf Hall?
Yes, he is indeed played by Mark Rylance.
2:14 Language sir, language!
Also, where the hell is Eric Bana? Did giant spiders from his homeland get him?
Rad Spencer
I can assure you- our spiders only _look_ giant.... it’s the drop-bears you have to worry about... & you know- everything else...
I don’t know where Eric Bana is from, but from your comment, I’m assuming Australia.
Kate Cooper
Eric & myself are both Australian... between ‘Poida’ in ‘Full Frontal’ (I guess it was probably like SNL, but as I’ve never seen the latter, I can only _assume_ so from the sketches people have described), his role in ‘The Castle’, & obviously, ‘Chopper’, he was put on the map.
Missed this video when it came out,
HOW WILL I LIVE THROUGH THE SHAME
😭😭😭
Why does no-one ever wanna get into MY heavily-embroidered pants *sob* 😫
11:43 - 13:15 is this a Tudor drama or porn film thats being reviewed what is half of that seriously. Also take a shot every time Cavalier makes his angry sound and you will be drunk enough to watch this.
Methinks I see a Gregory fan. It’s not Cavaliers fault that what they make of her writing. She wrote it🤷♀️. You have to be drunk to watch these butcheries of history.
@@mangot589 I'm not a Gregory thats heresy
josh thomas-moore, So, out of curiosity, what’s the problem with the critiques? He didn’t write the press reviews. He just read them.
@@mangot589 Well ignoring the fact its baiased, the whole getting in to anne's pants and whole "Bed-hoping part" is just weird to me. How many other reviews have you seen like that? i will accept i'm more of a social puritan but still i'm not watching a history drama or any drama just for that.
josh thomas-moore I think that’s the point he was making. But, aside from LC, Henry DID want to desperately get into Anne’s knickers.
I would recommend for you to watch the TV Series Isabel of Castile... it's pretty accurate as far as my limited knowledge of the history of Spain goes. It's in my opinion an example of a good historical drama. Sure, they changed some stuff, but they kinda had to.
Loved it to bits. Agree.
Ah, Anne Boleyn stories...they all end the same way.
I can’t wait to hear your rant on the Channel 5 drama, Ann Boleyn!
I'm finishing up the script for the Quick Review (about 10-15 mins long) soon and will probably recording it in the week some time. I'll probably give it a full hour plus rant at some point in the future.
Don’t forget Part II of your reviews of Waterloo and Sink the Bismarck 😉
Yes, as I said the rants will be between those and other videos depending on how things pan out.
Am I the only one who found the premise of this movie and book in general a bit sexist I mean the good girl is blonde and just wants to get married and have a family and a bad girl wants to be in charge of her own destiny in a position of power and gets killed because she wasn’t in her place not a good message for women 🤮
I mean...sigh.
Listen, I truly get Phillipa wanted the book to be shocking and dramatized, but like....imagine your Anne, and you see that they are making a film about you and its literary every single made up lie that lead up to your death, knowing damn well, you were innocent. I would be furious and heartbroken. It's not like she hasn't been through enough? Smeare campaign that lasted for 500 years and only really recently I would say within the last 100 years, has she had a redemption arch and then theres phillipa lmfao girl let Anne rest in peace 😂
This was absolutely hilarious! Well done! I’ve subscribed to your channel and look forward to more videos of you thoroughly ripping Tudor adaptations apart.
Thanks! This is actually one of my unscripted videos, which are a bit more all over the place compared to my scripted ones. Currently working on the script for Tudor Rant Part 5, looking at the second Season of 'The Spanish Princess'.
@@The_Laughing_Cavalier OOF Spanish Princess I will have to bust out my popcorn for that one. Can't wait to hear you thoughts!
Mary Boleyn's descendents that were later prominent courtiers include Lettice Knollys, Henry Carey 1st Baron Hunsdon (a general), Robert Devereux Earl of Essex.
And Nelson, Churchill, Ralph Vaughan Williams and since the late Queen Mother, most of the Royal Family and Me !!!!
Would also recommend the Anne Boleyn Files if anyone's interested in myths about the Boleyns
What do you think about the Anne Boleyn Casting at Channel 5 some people are throwing hissy fits
ua-cam.com/channels/dgTg98yxCDSGg3mAVC3nsQ.htmlcommunity?lb=Ugz4iOVO_8ZVx3zilkJ4AaABCQ
Save yourself the pain and review By the Sword Divided.
Come back to House Stuart dear boy!
Speaking of House Stewart are you going to review The favorite about Queen Anne even though it’s pretty sensationalized .
Philippa Gregory has novels told from the POV of a fictional person living during these periods and honestly those are the better ones in my opinion. For example "The Queen's Fool" and " her newer series that spans the English Civil war and the Restoration
This was painful. Not one character was recognizable as their historical counterpart nor were the historical events addressed in any real way. Calling this historical is like waving a grape over a bottle of vinegar and calling it wine. Funniest to me was Eric Bana's Henry VIII; why were these two females fighting over this cardboard cutout? I saw nothing attractive, fascinating, majestic, nothing. He's mildly pretty and that's about it. Nothing a girl would risk her neck for. Argh, it's just bloody awful and I wish I could unsee it. Even the other version with Jodie May was better than this tripe. I imagine all the actors in it wish they could erase it from their resumes.
Can we ask the film company to burn all copies?
Brutal insight. ¿Are you going to review A Man for All Seasons (1966)? :)
Yes, I will do a quick review at some point this year hopefully, I recently got it on DVD as well!
In the book, it was made clear that they didn't go throw with the incense thing. In the book it was more of a see she is that desperate and probably where the rumor came from. I guess. Phillipa Gregory is still one of my guilty please authors. Cringe in fear. I have read far worse.
I think this novel (and I do like it despite its flaws) may have been the start of the Pimp Daddy Boleyn characterization--the idea that Thomas Boleyn actively encouraged his daughters into the king's bed to benefit the family. I don't know if that's all that accurate, since daughters of noble families were most valued for their marriageability, and an illicit affair, even with the king, would damage that. Of course Thomas benefited somewhat from Henry's interest in his daughters, though perhaps not quite so much as legend would have it--he was a respected diplomat even beforehand. And besides, what else COULD a courtier do in a country where one man held absolute power and his favor could be all that stood between your family and ruin? But I don't think it actually would have gone so far as Thomas ordering his daughters to sleep with Henry. This characterization is at its most ridiculous in Mademoiselle Boleyn by Robin Maxwell...Thomas orders Mary Boleyn to sleep with King Francis while in France. How this is going to help the Boleyns' fortunes IN ENGLAND is anyone's guess!
The idea of Thomas Boleyn pimping his daughters goes back to 19th century. Why, I don't know. Most modern historians believe it still but its not true!!
This movie was cringeworthy at best. i don't know how the cast could have filmed this and not laughed every single second cause the dialogue was ridiculous. Oh well, there are some roles actors take that make their career and other roles that pays their bills just saying : / Philippa Gregory I swear looks for just one random, unverified rumor from that era and thinks "yes, I can make a book out of this" and its sad to see a lot of people take this as fact when you can easily go seek verified information like go to Anne Boleyn Files or seek primary sources. Philippa Gregory will one day answer for her crimes smh
May I suggest "Rant de la Medieval" for the White Queen? Sounds more fancy and royal-like...
Also, while it was the contended theory at the time, when Philippa Gregory wrote the book (not when it was published, but when she was *writing* the book), Eric Ives' biography - which conclusively proved Anne was born in 1501 and the younger sister - had not come out. So there was room for debate.
And, in Philippa's defence, she *does* mention everything in her book - France, Ormond, etc. That's all the people writing the movie that changed it.
That may be so, but most historians have always thought Anne was the younger. Gregory seems to put a unique spin on what facts we do know.
@@brontewcat True, but at the time we didn't have concrete facts on their ages. Even *now* we don't know how old Anne truly was!
Jamestopboy True I think there is more leeway about her age. Although we do not know for certain I don’t think there has ever been any serious disagreement Anne was younger than Mary.
Peter Morgan lowered himself to adapting that atrocious novel?! How desperate for work can one be? Was the man living under a bridge, eating off handouts?! Someone whose talent produced 'the special relationship' and 'years and years' should know better than associate himself with adapting a writer whose output is a cross between Mills & Boons and conspiracy theories.
Please review the Six musical
I'll see. I never watch musicals and I have a long list of other stuff to cover first mind you.
The Laughing Cavalier Still looking forward to all your upcoming videos. As a fellow history junky, I really enjoy someone pointing the issues with films and shows that claim to be (the worst phrase in media) “a different take the true story”. And I love that someone else also has a problem with the gross inaccuracies of the costumes. There’s just something that rubs me the wrong way about The Six, I would like to see a more studied-up Tudor person take a jab at it. Anyways, love your content on your channel.
Honestly it’s just them dressed up and fancy outfit singing not dramatizing events and I’m used to seeing musicals into acts they stayed the events but they don’t play them out and I love musical theater and they dig right into the stereotype of Anne Boleyn when they said they were trying to break The stereotypes of the six wives but they don’t do a good job at it .
Grace Futrell they did the opposite of what they said they were doing. Yes they were strong women but what the show doesn’t show is their actual strengths. They were deeply religious women living in a troubled time that the music just glosses over. And making Anne Boleyn as nothing more then sex tease is just insulting to her.
You could’ve mentioned Thomas Moore was nowhere to be seen or mentioned which I found annoying considering my mom is one of those people who worships the ground he walked on 😒
Trust me, I could have rant for an hour about what was wrong and what they left out with this movie!
Have you thought of making a discord m8?
Not really no, I've never used discord before and I don't really have a reason to use it now.
To be honest i don't so much mind the "what if every spicy rumour was true?" Take on historical fiction as long as the drama follows a coherent chain of logic, the characters have depth, and the settings and costumes feel at least evocative of authenticity.
An excellent of drama like that is Showtime's The Borgias.
I love this movie!!! Great cast!!
1] Henry shows more of his tender and sympathetic side with Mary, whereas he fluctuates between desperately p****-whipped and bitter, vindictive jerk, when he's with Anne. The viewer is meant to believe that Anne's cruelty came from the feeling that she'd been heartbroken and betrayed by her family, and she focused her jaded anger on the one person she could actually hurt with it: Mary.
2] The only thing I like about Philippa Gregory's work is her vividly-detailed writing style. You really feel like you're there, watching the characters from behind a pillar, when you read her stuff. That being said...she seems to treat Anne as if her daily life was a show called "Real Housewives of the Renaissance". She seems to believe that to be a strong woman, who's worthy of admiration, you have to be a nasty b***h. You have to not care who you have to step on, nor the means by which you step on them, in order to achieve your life goals. The movie hints at this very idea at the beginning, when Thomas Boleyn is talking to his wife, Elizabeth, about their daughters' futures. Speaking of Thomas, he and Elizabeth get much kinder treatments in the movie, rather than the incredibly cold-hearted, cynical, mean-spirited people they're portrayed as in the book.
3] I'm pretty sure the lighting has something to do with setting the mood for specific scenes. Big court events are shown with gold tones, because it's supposed to be the peak of decadence and excitement. Meanwhile, scenes with a bluish overlay, like Anne's execution, are meant to be confusing and scary. Side-note about that scene: I couldn't believe that they left out the role Mary's eldest child, Catherine Carey, played as a lady-in-waiting in the Tower, during her aunt's last days. Also, I think they had the crowd fall completely silent in the exact moment Anne died, because they shared a collective astonishment that it actually happened. Both in real-life and in historical fiction, everyone thought this was going to be just one more grand show for Henry, and that he was going to stop the execution at the last minute and send his now-former wife somewhere far away. Those present were stunned when he allowed it to happen, and we can assume that more than a few of them started to question what type of man their country really had on its throne. (5/27/2022)
About the family wanting Mary to marry Henry...in all fairness, in the novel this was put forth as well, and the family planned to claim, and intimidate William Carey into claiming, that the marriage was never consummated and could be annulled.
Also in terms of actors the Boleyn sisters being played by Natalie Portman and Scarlet Johansson
I have never understood why so much "historical" fiction is such trash. My personal favorite examples are "Gladiator" and "Alexander the Great". Neither is from the Tudor period, but you seem to have that base covered quite well.
I read the book well before there was any news about adapting it, and frankly I wasn't mad about it. Too coarse and vulgar, and the incest scene is just...urgh! I thought Eric Bana was badly cast but I thought Natalie Portman was quite a good choice but as you say, her portrayal was off. And why get all these americans playing English people?
I love how you review lesser known historical films. I hope you also consider non-english language historical films too
You could tackle Nicholas and Alexandra, with The Fourth Doctor as Rasputin... Not that it's "lesser-known" as such, but it does seem to be overshadowed by Dr. Zhivago.
I enjoyed the book for what is was a Novel but this was pure Crap. I enjoyed your commentary on the movie though
R÷=÷=#f$$$$$$f$$#case
That movie (The Other Boleyn Girl 2008) is terrible.
Dear Laughing Cavalier!
Do you really think that "The Other Boleyn Girl" (ugh, at least in russian localization that sounds bit more meaning) deserves a proper Rant from you? With Phillipa Gregory, wooden lead and incest? Seriously, why so much inbreeding? WHY???
Are you sure you want to make a rant?
Wait, that doesn't sound...
ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO MAKE A RANT?
Thank you!
At the moment, I have it planned to be Tudor Rant 7 or something like that so it is a way off yet
@@The_Laughing_Cavalier
I'd be really upset if you'll waste your time and ranting talent on this. If I've been granted a choice to hear a rant from you about "The other Boleyn girl" and rant about Nazi-made equivalent of "Night to Remember", I rather have you ranting about Nazis on boat. From what I've heard, Nazis put in that film more effort than Julian Fellows.
The movie is being judged as historically inaccurate, but I don't think neither book nor film was ever meant to be seen as depicting what really took place. It's loosely based on historical events, that's all.
Aside from that, both book and film are rather bad imo :P
Glorious, trash! By Philippa Effing Gregory!
Hello thank you for this video............... well this film is one of the worst it’s mainly about the Boleyn sisters and the Boleyn Family you’ve got Thomas Boleyn Who pawn out his daughters you’ve got Mary Boleyn who is betrayed as sweetness and light she was anything but.. then you’ve got Anne Boleyn Who in this film is crafty cruel and manipulative and will stop at nothing. 😂 this film is from Philippa Gregory‘s novel The other Boleyn girl his 😂............kim🇬🇧
This movie base on book so made up
Anne of a Thousand days was abysmal. The dialogue could have been written by a ten year old, (I’ve sent her to Northumberland. As far north as I could send her since we don’t OWN Scotland) or (My God, I really got it in the face that time) it’s terribly over dramatic and Richard Burton is awful as Henry V111.
But Bujold was very good as Anne Boleyn and the costumes were beautiful. Of course, the historical accuracy is, as usual, non existent.
Borley Nun. I thought he was better in that part than when he had to play Thomas Beckett against foppish Peter O’Toole.🤦♀️. I love Peter. But OMG.
Watch the BBC version much better
This movie is terrible and offensive to historians.