“Do atheists exist?” This Christian’s insulting answer
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Christian apologist Frank Turek never fails to use overly-literal interpretations of the bible to paint non-Christians as psychologically broken and morally bankrupt.
Here I respond to a recent video from Frank Turek’s Cross Examined channel. Drawing from Romans 1, he explains his understanding of the psychology of atheism. It’s… rather insulting. From the unfalsifiable nature of his claims, to his apparent outgroup bias, to the fundamentalist-like literalism of his interpretation of the bible, issues abound in his video. This video isn’t meant to proselytize for atheism, but rather to call for complexity and empathy in interfaith dialogue.
Video on outgroup bias in dialogue on religion:
“Why Christian Responses to Deconstruction Are So Predictable”
• Why Christian Response...
Thanks to NonStampCollector for his contribution!
His channel: / nonstampcollector
------------------------------------------FOLLOW------------------------------------------
Twitter: / gm_skeptic
Facebook: / gmskeptic
------------------------------------------SUPPORT------------------------------------------
Patreon: / geneticallymodifiedske...
PayPal: www.paypal.me/...
------------------------------------------Resources for atheists in need------------------------------------------
Find a Secular Therapist: www.secularthe...
Recovering from Religion helps connect those who are leaving or have left their religion with support, resources and community: www.recovering...
Resources for Ex-Mu’s: exmuslims.org/...
This video contains 100% therapeutic grade skepticism.*
*This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA
Thanks to NonStampCollector for his cameo! His channel is an atheist UA-cam classic (in a good way), with tons of hilarious sketches. Here are my favorite videos of his: ua-cam.com/play/PLtKEY3VVqAWZrkTydAUAVrJsaIk6k02MR.html
Look into Nietzsche
For a minute I hoped there was a new @nonstampcollector video that I didn't see... :(
Dude, how could you not care if people become atheists? You seriously don't see the benefit to society when people discard religious BS??
@@179rich It's not enough to discard religion, because non-religious ideologies can have equally harmful effects. Ideology in general must be rejected.
@@Mutantcy1992 OK, but it's a good start, right? I'm referring to all deity-based religions, that's the subject at hand, but sure, other beliefs can be harmful.
Just imagine if the script was flipped: “You can’t really be a Christian, you are just projecting your own needs onto an imaginary being!”
It is unfortunately true that, in the many years before The Flying Spaghetti Monster chose to reveal the truth of their existence to the world, they had touched so many with their noodly appendages, using those people as pawns to spread nonsense and drivel.
/s
Santa Claus, maybe?
Careful, you'll get called a 'le reddit atheist' for saying such obvious facts.
"You're just believing in a fairy tale so you can feel like morals are objective."
@@AnaseSkyrider But atheist don’t exsist. (Joke)
'If you're a genuine atheist, that's god's fault' is such a fun sentence
I also notice what I think is an unintended corollary, which is that if you believe, you didn't have free will in that either. Somehow, I don't think that's a position Turek would want to advocate.
@@martinwood744 That was almost a sentence.
@@martinwood744 If God is an ethereal being with no body there is no gender, it's meaningless to it. I mean, call the imaginary whateveryou want, but labeling it a she is just as ridiculous as labeling it a he.
@@jacobvreeland6147 do you say this to everyone who uses he to refer to god?
@@uncannedspaghetti well technically i suppose it depends on the god they are discussing because a general idea of god isnt necessarily gendered but uf someone referred to the christian god that is a gendered male god
Ironic that an apologetic christian, asserts that Buddhism is about escaping accountability, when Buddhism, is about taking responsibility for your actions, while Christianity is all about Jesus, forgiving your sins and release you from accountability.
yeah I noticed that too, how little these people know about Buddhism or what Buddhists actually believe... or care... :(
Christianity is practically engineered from the ground up to enable horrible people to get away with horrible things without the faintest hint of a consequence. Pretend to say ten Hail Marys and you can literally get away with murder.
Jesus said "By their fruits ye shall know them," and if I may reference Billie Holiday the tree of Christianity bears a strange fruit indeed.
Buddhism: Literally proscribes killing a single insect, so complete is its commitment to nonviolence. Also teaches that redemption for individual wrongdoing is a gradual process undertaken over potentially infinite lifetimes of reincarnation spent doing good.
Christian apologetic: Buddhists just want to get away with things all the time!
Edit: I'm not 100% sure of the former. I believe monks at least do have to adhere to that, on the basis that reincarnation can place a soul in anything from even a fly to a human, and dietary restrictions forbid anything that involves taking the life of an animal.
Buddhism is hardcore frfr
Yea I was about to say something. Just another Bible thumber trying to crap on other religion with no knowledge of it.
I generally explain my atheism to apologists as "God can convince me he's real quite easily. He knows where I live, he knows my phone #. He knows how to convince me. The fact he hasn't bothered implies he's not there or hes fine with my atheism."
Problem is they believe in some kind of "well he has infinite power but he doesn't wanna waste it on individuals. He wants you to come to him of your own free will... Even if you'll end up in his kingdom whether you make the choice or not. DON'T QUESTION IT!!!"
@@VitaeLibraBut “Jesus loves you” why would he just let you go to hell?😭
Consistency really isn’t their thing somehow
@@VitaeLibra it's funny because there are bits in the Bible where Yahweh can be bargained with, such as Abraham bargaining for Sodom and Moses convincing Yahweh not to murder all the Hebrews in Exodus 32. But 30 minutes of his infinite time to ask questions is apparently too much to ask.
@@VitaeLibra "I love you so much my children, that I give you free will. But do exactly as I say anyway or be tortured for eternity"
Wouldn't their reasoning just be that God is using them (the apologists in question) as a tool to reach out and convince you?
It’s really really funny hearing “disobedient to your parents” in the middle of that list with all the other heinous moral failings.
his horizon reaches til his neighbours house lol
@Rawlings actually I have a pretty excellent relationship with my parents
@Rawlings none of that has anything to do with “being disobedient to your parents” included in the middle of that list being hilarious.
@Rawlings why are my religious beliefs or lack thereof relevant in whether I found something funny?
I also find this pretty 'funny' too. My extremely religious and abusive parents basically used this philosophy and verse to control my brother and I's life. They consider any disobedience 'sin' and have said things that Jesus would punish me for hurting their feelings. I'm certain there is historical context on why such a 'rule' was created in the first place, but this verse honestly just irks me to no end.
Yeah, whenever I feel like committing crimes, I just pretend the cops dont exist so I can commit crimes because that makes sense right
Well said
if I close my eyes no one can see me that's how it works right?
That's exactly how it works! Darn it you've figured it out.
Even though I know they exist, I deny it anyway, to myself? Even though I myself know my denial is fake? What? It makes sense, trust me.
Works all the time.
"You're stubbornly defending your God against all reason because it provides you with a substantial income and feeling of superiority. Am I right?"
All the blood drained from the apologist's face.
He was caught.
He was defending an ancient myth for money and self-satisfaction.
Huh, turns out we can do that too.
🤔
Absolutely 🙋🏼♀️
Correct. He also holds on to his morally depraved ideology of vicarious redemption and substituonary attonement via human meat sacrifices and blood magic because he wants to be depraved and a liar and have no accountability.
James 1:26 & Luke 6:37
And everyone clapped.
Good show..
I love how you create an atmosphere where both atheists and religious people can learn and respond to your videos without any disrespect.
Thank you, that’s the goal! I’m glad you think I managed it here
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic
Do you think Religion is a good thing for humanity? I personally think it is quite clear to understand that neither god or religion exists, when you view from a higher perspective humanity just tries to do what's best for us, fine, god exists or doesn't but in the end i would wish people to believe what's the best for them.
@@gokalpkilinc6032here’s the bottom line. There’s no such thing as an atheist, to be atheist one has to not only be 100% certain God does not exist. Not only do they have to be sure but also have verifiable evidence to back it up. There’s only agnostics and theist. There’s no such thing as an absolute truth with atheism just as there is no such thing as objective morality in atheism. How then can a self professed atheist even be trusted when they have no moral background to cling to? Honesty and truth are and have always been a Christians attribute-not an atheist one.
@@gokalpkilinc6032I'm not who you're asking but I will answer myself
I think that religion can be helpful and has probably helped many people through tough times by giving them something to believe and hope for.
However it can go badly very quickly especially when it comes to moral decisions. There have also been many wars based on whose religion is right.
Responding to someone whose opinions you do not respect as if you respect *them* as a person is just being civil, and polite.
Welcome to Canada. 🤣
It’s interesting that he fully believes that non-Christian’s lives also revolve around Christianity. Very much the “everything orbits the earth” type of argument
The problem is he can't (or don't want to) understand there is something called cultural influence, and the catholic religion had impact in many cultures and ways of thinking.
The only reason non-christian lives have any connection to christianity is the endless persecution they receive from christians.
No one ever...! Not even whom you marry! should ever know what you believe about religion. Not one word of religion should escae your lips around strangers or anywhere in public.
@@garyabbott3861 disagree. I'm also atheist.
most major cities in the US have large churches that were the community center for different immigrant groups. now and days we dont need those cultural/community safety nets.@@wertyupanoptikus9787
"You just want to sin!" is such a reductive line. I grew up Christian and came out as gay so I encounter it a lot. I have thin skin so it's actually tremendously hurtful. It cuts right over any consideration of my pain or struggle or thought process.
ah religion sucks. pay the ones who chastise you no heed.
Maybe get some resilience?
bro these are grown men who believe theres an old gramp flying in the clouds (between all the Boeings and ultrasonic jets btw) who watches him masturbate likeeee....
idk if THESE are the types of ppl one would wanna get his affirmation from.
these guys' wet dream is to throw stones at ppl until they die, let that sink in.
I know how you feel I am gay and grew up with Jewish parents, who were not very accepting at first, also my community had issues with it being brought up in an Orthodox Jewish community. , This is not the only reason though that I do not believe in religion, there are many factors that I am still dealing with... (0:
Love isn't supposed to hurt
My boyfriend is an athiest and I am Christian. I adore having talks about the universe and philosophy with him. We don't argue and we both kind of teach eachother different perspectives. However...my Mother keeps driving in that I have to convert him when I have no plan to... Christians have this Savior complex and they think if they yell at u loud enough you will convert. Imagine a world where we just spoke to eachother. It would be lovely
My loved one is a muslima. That's never been a problem. I've visited mosque many times with her at Id ul Fitr. I've heard some good, moving sermons.
my thought process is that the bible implies non beleivers will go to hell. so from a christian perspective being married to an athiest you know someone you love will go to hell. so thats why i struggle to understand christians who wouldn’t want to convert their spouse (or any religion where non-belief is a sin).
@@estergrant6713 if he converts it has to be on his own. He would never do it if i force him. And i think alot of people are like that
Mercy Rose Imagine a world, free of belief systems where everyone uses reason to stays strong , helps other and tries to good for the world 🌎. Could that be possible,,? ^^ 😀. G'day from Australia 🇦🇺. 👀:).
@@redmatters9318 unfortunately i don't think so. Humans are too inquisitive and need explaination for things they don't understand. Even if it wasn't the same way i think there would always be some kind of belief system. But that's a nice thought:) hi from America 🇺🇲
Every time I hear a Christian say "non-Christians just don't want to face accountability for their sins.", my mind cringes. Accountability to a Christian is blaming Satan for being "sinful" and then absolving themselves of any conscience about it by demanding "Jesus's blood washes away my sins!" Christianity is literally avoiding all accountability.
Yes and no. Sure "Satan made me do it" is a real catch cry that some Christians use. But the point is, does God buy that line. For a Christian to be absolved of their sins, they have to have genuine contrition for the act. So in a sense they are allowing themselves to be accountable for their actions
@@glenchapman3899kinda. They do have to acknowledge 'internally" that they've sinned but it's pretty clear the whole sacrifice of Jesus was to take accountability for that sin. So you don't necessarily have to change your behavior so long as you are ashamed of your behavior
@@glenchapman3899Odd how their behavior never changes after absolving themselves of their wrongdoing yet the continue to use the line.
Or funny enough you're told you have to pay a tithe(just straight money to the church).
@LucaFox I think you're have the wrong notion what repenting means.
That's the incorrect way of repenting your describing.
You ask for forgiveness and repenting for sins known or unknown.
However once you become consciously aware of your sins, any repeated attempts is outright disobedience. People who commit the same sin and repent repeatedly arent actual repentful.
That's detail people miss. Yes you ask for forgiveness but you need to truly mean it and try.
“My book says you believe my god is real.”
“I don’t believe your god is real.”
“LIAR!”
- real aytheists ain1t not exist, sayeth da lawrd. Yoo hear me?
- No. I cannot. I don't exist, remember?
“My book says you believe my god is real.”
“I don’t believe your god is real, and I don't care what your book says."
“LIAR! My book says you're a liar, so you MUST BE A LIAR.”
"Your book could tell you birds don't exist and dolphins are fish, and I still wouldn't care."
It's pretty obvious somebody is obviously lying. But it's irony if the liar is calling other people liars. Then again, that is also what mental disabled people do.
"Because of Obi-wan?"
They just made "Thank God I'm an atheist" into a real thing!
I prefer "thanks to no god I'm an atheist."
Or....thank the imaginary "god(s)" I'm a DEVOUT atheist.
@@robertaldaron8617 For all we know there could be gods, just a forgotten religion's god or gods, maybe the old folklore of 'demons' were gods but butchered because humans hate anything stronger than them unless it's man
While we're on the topic of lack of understanding tell us how nothing can create everything and given enough time rocks and talk and mud can breathe ...class dismissed.@@robertaldaron8617
@@spyderxx6309 One God only and his book is the Torah
"Oh no, I don't think you're disingenuous now! I just think you used to be so disingenuous for so long that now you're just sincerely horrible."
Thanks for the olive branch, Frank.
You're being unreasonably generous, Prophet of Zod.
@@phoebeflanders I think he was being duly sarcastic.
My favorite viewpoint about atheists is this one: “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all - the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs and act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that god commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right."
“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say 'I pray that God will help you’. Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say 'I will help you.'”
What a great comment and understanding and conveying in such a short amount of time. Thank you for your comment here..I needed to hear it
This made me tear up 😢 thank you
This is a cut above. I can't help but notice the quotation marks and ask who is this Master you reference? I am impressed.
I have been an atheist since about age seven. I’ll be 75 in March. I have reasons to believe that I might not be around that much longer. For the last few days, I have been binge-watching atheist programs on UA-cam because they bring me a lot of comfort. This is the first thing I have watched of yours. Really like what you do. Subscribed so I can see more. Thanks.
Hello Mr. Since we don't know how much longer we will have you here. I want to ask if you could share something very important. What's your favorite song and movie? Also PS hope that you have many years to come :)
@@chachawho435I hope you’ve watched lots of Christopher Hitchens by now!
"Binge-watching atheist programs"? One would think you'd have outgrown the need by now. OK, so there's no God and all that religious stuff is nonsense. Once you're sure, what more is there to be said? You're totally comfortable with it, so how do more such videos bring you comfort? Wouldn't you want to move on to something that does exist?
@@BrianStanleyEsq I do it because I enjoy it. Probably the same reason you run around being an angry internet troll.
Then what do you have to lose? Give the bible another try. Look at the historical evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But it is much more than just an intellectual question. Of course our faith in God is based on evidence (historical, scientific, philosophical, personal experience...), but it is much more than that. Surely these atheist programs didn't leave you with a sense of meaning and purpose. Open your heart. Ask God to reveal himself to you. "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."
I have said this before, and I'll say it again: Frank Turek is omniscient. He knows more about cosmology than cosmologists, he knows more about evolution than biologists, he understands human psychology better than any psychologist, and he even knows what you're thinking and why.
And what do you do when your interlocutor knows everything? Is it even worth having the discussion? His mind can't be changed. Frank isn't open to being wrong about anything, even if it's not asking much of him to correct some positions that he will admit don't present problems for his Christianity.
I know many lovely Christians. Whenever I talk to one about religion (which is itself rare), I'm more interested in changing my beliefs than changing theirs. I'm not advocating everyone be this way exactly, but let's all at least listen to one another if conversation means anything. There is no point in arguing with real people when you could argue with the ones you invent.
Please, Christians, atheists, Buddhists, everyone: Don't be like Frank Turek.
Hey, I thought that was the description of Ken Ham, the guy from Answers in Genesis.
@@marknieuweboer8099 Oh, that presents an interesting problem - it already takes some questionable tapdancing to square an omniscient being with the concept of free will, so what kind of complexity would be present if there were two beings with both free will and omniscience?
@@khill8645 hypothetically you don’t even need two. If there were one being with omniscience, even that being wouldn’t have free will.
@@gregslingland3576 That's one of the things "questionable tapdancing" was meant to allude to, especially given that omniscience in a universe with Heisenberg's uncertainty principle would need to be demonstrated - it's at least counterintuitive, if not logically contradictory.
I was more just musing about the complexities of multiple omniscient beings coexisting, something that seems illogical here but might be perfectly cromulent in a fantasy setting and could make for a wonderful topic in a tabletop campaign...
"He knows more about cosmology than cosmologists, he knows more about evolution than biologists, he understands human psychology better than any psychologist"
He does. He knows they didn't come about on their own.
How did they get around the first verses of the bible with God creating and giving life?
Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We KNOW these laws. We have NO doubts about them. We also KNOW that the laws of nature can't come about without a Lawgiver, God.
Life only comes from life. Law of biogenesis.
God is the reason for us and all we have.
ua-cam.com/video/JiMqzN_YSXU/v-deo.html
The odds are NOT there.
ua-cam.com/video/W1_KEVaCyaA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/yW9gawzZLsk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/ddaqSutt5aw/v-deo.html
"Atheists just pretend they don't believe in god" There are a lot of terrible theist arguments but this is hands down the worst. Why would I voluntarily throw myself into the pits of hell?
Even if christian God existed and it was proven you could find it shameful to worship him considering some of his actions depicted in the Bible. At least you would boil in hell with your head held high.
@@mateuszwiazowski3124 Well said.. this is the mind of most atheists...
@@mateuszwiazowski3124 Well said.. this is the mind of most atheists...
It's an interesting statement, especially when the same people accuse other Christians of "Not being real Christians" because they have different ideology. If only atheists committed crimes and all Christians never did they would be happy but because that isn't the reality they have to pretend they know what everyone really believes. It's annoying but I don't feel insulted because I know it's the only way they can maintain their delusion
Why atheists won’t admit god is real:
1) fear of accountability & truth (it would be scary to know a hell exists since most people like to sin & don’t want to stop)
2) your pride & ego won’t let you admit you’re wrong (these a “logic” & “science” based atheists that think science & logic are absolute truth but even Einstein said the scientist is a poor philosopher
3) it would hurt your emotions to believe that there IS God because then you’d have to accept that the bad things that have happened to you are his “fault”. It’s easier for a hurt child to cut off & ignore their parent than to admit their parent hurt them
I was raised by my grandparents. My grandmother was Lutheran and my grandfather was Catholic. After I was adopted by them, they made the decision to not give me any religious teachings unless I sought it out.
When I was seven, one of my classmates was talking about a God character. I asked "what is God?" and they gave me the simple childlike answer. "God is everything and everywhere."
I remember thinking that was stupid and denied that, and she understandably grew upset.
When I got home, I asked my grandparents what God was, and they decided to show me one of their Bibles and gave me a rough description of their beliefs, and I attempted to read, but ended up giving up reading. I did not feel interested and did not feel it was important.
Today, being more educated, I would describe myself as an agnostic atheist.
From my perspective, there was no truth revealed to me that a higher power exists, and I really feel that you have to have been raised in a dogmatic manner or have strong input from a believer in order to believe.
If God's existence is evident in intelligent design around us, then why must missionaries be sent to spread the word of God?
Surely, if intelligent design is evidence that God exists, then missionaries and conversions must serve no point.
I’m so relieved to find out (from Frank Turek) that I’m not lying, but just delusional due to my intense desire to remain a sinner.
Turek has forgotten Mark 11:25 " and when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them so that your Father in heaven may forgive your sins."
''sponge bob screaming meme'' I FREAKING LOVE SINNING, I GO TO BAD AND WAKE UP EVERYDAY THINKING ABOUT SIN
I know your statement is hyperbole, but if Frank told me the sky was blue, I would assume he is being his usual dishonest self and then wonder what the long con was when I checked for myself it really was blue.
He is such an utterly dishonest POS human being that no one should believe anything he says.
Now I feel bad, because I kind of suck at sinning. Can I blame my age? It's just a lot harder to work up the motivation for a good bout of sin once you pass 50. I can't even remember the last time I stole anything... ☹
What makes this so much worse is that Christians sin all the time and they actually believe God exists. That makes them worse than being delusional, that makes them hypocrites. This means they believe God exists and that God has set out rules of what not to do and that God is all knowing and can't be wrong and they want to act in accordance with God, but then they just keep sinning anyway.
That seems to debunk that the reason atheists don't want to believe in God because they just want to sin.
"She's a Buddhist now because she wants no moral accountability", does this man know what Buddhism is?
The arrogance of Turek is astounding. It's nauseating hearing him talk.
They dont even understand or believe in the bible, they just pick and choose parts of it when its convenient
Of course this man does not know what Buddhism is I guess he is believing that Buddha was some kind of god.... ah the stupidity of religious fanatics!
Buddhism is all about self-restraint.
@@enterpassword3313 Fair enough. Most of them don't even know the apocryphal books exist.
Someone saying that atheists are wrong is better than saying they're liars
It just means they don't agree
Saying they're liars just invalidates everything they say
I watched the video a little bit and it's a bit worse than i thought
I'd say they are trying to invalidate everything atheists say, but agree with the point you are making. "You just want to sin." Crap like that.
@@godassasin8097 Yeah, unfortunately, that was giving them even more credit than they actually deserved before finishing the video. Guys like Turek are THAT bad that you can't even give them the benefit of the doubt even if you want to.
Beyond that: If you're trying to convince someone that what you believe is true, telling them they're liars, isn't a great way to go about it. All *that* does, is tell the subject that the apologist has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Because there's a lot of things I don't know, but I've been with me 24/7 for 56 years. I'm pretty much the leading expert on me, so attacking ME, is attacking the one thing I DO know for sure and that tells me for sure, they are clueless. However, apologists who do that aren't really trying to convince me despite their claim. They're trying to prop up the faith of their flock.
The apologists are doing their best to avoid engaging with any argument the atheists might make.
Speaking as an elderly atheist who deconverted from Christianity over 50 years ago, I've never had a single regret about losing all religious belief. I grew out of it like people grow out of their belief in Santa Claus. As a child, each Christmas my parents maintained the Polish tradition that presents were brought by an angel on Christmas Eve - we were shut up in our bedroom while my father snuck out and rang the doorbell a few times while my mother distributed presents under the tree. Eventually I learned where presents actually come from!
Yet folk like Frank Turek want to have a go at people like me, because I grew out of my religious belief. He wants to claim I'm wilfully denying it, that secretly I know that Turek is right. But no, it's actually losing a need to believe in a god, because it adds nothing to my understanding of the universe and my place in it. And which god, out of the thousands that humans have worshipped?
I appreciate that some folk prefer the metaphysical security religious belief may provide them, and find it hard to understand how someone can live without it. But I'm atheist that same way I'm a cis gay male - it's an inherent part of my character and nature, and none of it was a choice. It's the path I had to follow, and couldn't deviate even if I wanted to. This is why I find the Tureks of the world cold and callous, the opposite of everything I used to think worthwhile about Christianity. And he thinks he's an ambassador and exemplar for his religion? Hah!
So how long before your "deconversion?" Even Judas lasted 3 years.
@@cosmicskeptic7886Did you not read what he said?
it never stops to amaze me when christians talk about "the perfect design" all while wearing glasses.
🤓
Their usual excuse is that we are imperfect beings, which is all a part of god's perfect design plan, for he is a master of deception and his machinations lay undetected for generations... oh wait, that's King Dragon, my bad.
@@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa 🤣🤣🤪
God is in Big Dentistry's pocket
I had to pay $400 to extract 4 godawful teeth that would've implode my jaw bone otherwise
@@matheussanthiago9685 the perfect design 👌
My mother constantly tells me that she knows that one day I will believe again, so I feel this one. I barely see my family because they continue to belittle my beliefs by discounting them entirely and then proceeding to push religion on me. The ironic part is that I put in a TON of effort learning about the historicity and philosophy of religion, more than they ever did, and yet still they tell me I’m wrong 😂
My favorite is when my christian family who has never read the bible attacks my non-belief that I got from reading the bible.
Ugh, my mom got Me with the good old "once a Christian always a Christian" that and the ever more popular trick I like to call the layman's Pascal's wager, "I guess you'll just see what happens to you when you die, won't you"
@@Theoldenmage The answer to that is "Well, I remember what happened before I was born, so I have some experience with the state."
@@Theoldenmage You realise that we are more restrained than those believers in Eternal post-mortem bliss who gloat over what we find out when we die. We can hardly gloat about their finding it's not there, because they won't be able to tell.
@@havable Or the ones who think they have to shout in upper case what Paul of Tarsus wrote, as if we hadn't read it or be persuaded if we hadn't.
14:48 This hit hard for me because my father-in-law would often begin arguments with his son based on Frank Turek’s and Ken Ham’s teachings. That argumentation led to alienation, which culminated in his son’s suicide.
Said father-in-law continued to repeat Frank Turek’s talking points at his own son’s funeral, totally oblivious (or in denial) to the damage Turek had caused.
Then that father also genuinely believed his son was burning in hell...
and he kept blaming him for it...
Don’t let a hypocrite stand between you and God that means he’s closer to God than you are!
Holy shit, that's *horrifying* :o
@@AegixDrakan it's horrifying in the extreme.
@@jjphank If Heaven's full of Christians Hell's the place for me. You make me miserable just from.spending five minutes with you, so why on God's green fuck would I want to spend eternity surrounded by you?
The only thing someone needs to be a good, honest, genuine, righious person is - EMPATHY!
but empathy dosen't exist guiIt dosen't exist moraIity dosen't exist 🤓 🤓
@@ajharris2690nice strawman
@@Sure-wj1vf wow useing ad homineeem i sweihaem 🤓 🤓
The problem is: psychopaths have no empathy at all, and they rule as CEOs and bosses over the rest.
@@ajharris2690 nope
How could an all merciful all benevolent God "give up" on someone lol
Right?
Ikr
Cuz their god isn’t all merciful or all benevolent 🥲😅
He isn't all merciful and all benevolent, he is also just and will execute perfect justice in the end. You wouldn't want a murderer or child abuser to get away with it right? God is the perfect judge, and none of us will get away with anything in our lifetime. We will all have to face God in the end and answer for what we've done and God doesn't miss anything, ever. Where his mercy comes in is that he actually took the punishment upon himself for what we've done and provided a way for us to be pardoned, but he also gave us free will, it is our choice to make. And that choice can only be made during this lifetime. If we miss it, or reject him, it will be too late.
@@elkhuntr2816 Hate to be the one to break it to you, but murderers and child abusers get away with it all the time. There is no justice but that which we make for ourselves, in our lives.
Yep that clip of Frank claiming that Buddhism is about dodging moral accountability is still the biggest eyeroll.
seems to only be capable of assuming and talk shi1t
Yeah I got pissed when he said that
Just shows he's dishonest and/or utterly ignorant of what Buddhism is. He probably think Buddhists think Buddha is their "Jesus" messiah figure.
I'm not even sure that Christians understand what moral accountability means. To them it can mean confessing your sins to a catholic priest or to Jesus in a prayer and then feel forgiven afterwards. The actual person or persons that you have hurt or cheated on? Well, they don't even seem to matter in the Christian understanding of moral accountability.
I'll take the "atheist" version of moral accountability any day, where you actually feel obliged to apologize for your transgression to the people you've hurt.
I remember one time a friend of mine evangelized to me and we came to a wall when I explained that even if I *wanted* to believe in God, my relationship with Him would be starting off in dishonesty because I simply don't believe in Him right now and "faking it til you make it" seemed like a bad way to actually build a relationship with Him. My friend couldn't really comprehend the idea that I was already being truthful and for me to take the path of the faithful I would have to start by lying to myself.
No thats fair faking it is probably a worse idea than not
@THE LEFT ARE NOT RIGHT I was under the impression lying was a pretty significant sin. Attempting to do anything for God while not believing He exists (or even really understanding what it means for a timeless, spaceless, disembodied mind to exist) is implicitly based on a lie or done in "bad faith" so either way I'll be going to hell.
Same here. I’ve looked at it thoroughly and just don’t believe the claims. We don’t need to be dishonest with ourselves.
That reasoning is a thing of beauty.
May I add that regularly participating in religious ceremonies without belief makes them a lot more disingenuous in the eyes of the beholder.
Put an atheist through mandated Quoran readings for a year and see if they wouldn't spot just how often hell is mentioned.
It's almost like there's some fearmongering going on from a young age or something.
I'm a vetarin of war . The saying : there are no Athiests in foxholes .
If I said the identical things about a god they didn't believe in, they would find it ridiculous and unconvincing
Never argue faith vs fact. You cannot win. They literally are irrational, and therefore cannot be rationally debated.
No, do it! Literally the only argument they have is they personally believe it... the ONLY argument.
@@elsushi8704 Stay on topic, never let them shift away from it- and take breaks lmao. You’re never gonna change their mind in one session, it’s gonna be a while.
Like believing we come from rocks and nothing created everything I totally agree.
But the fact is that christians don't argue against fact. The nonexistence of God is not a fact. The big bang is not a fact.
Trying to argue with logic against irrationality is like playing chess with a pigeon.
Only a mind that has been so deeply malnourished of logic and reasoning could make a bible based argument that contradicts their own bible based argument and not see a problem.
bro this guy believes in a flying old man who watches him masturbate, i dont think "mind" is the appropriate term
Frank Turik is a just another used god salesman. He will say anything to make more book sales, he isn't about truth in the slightest.
To the question “do arrogant Christians exist?”, the answer is a clear yes.
Am I arrogant?
How did you get around the first verses of the bible with God creating and giving life?
Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We KNOW these laws. We have NO doubts about them. We also KNOW that the laws of nature can't come about without a Lawgiver, God.
Life only comes from life. Law of biogenesis.
God is the reason for us and all we have.
ua-cam.com/video/JiMqzN_YSXU/v-deo.html
The odds are NOT there.
ua-cam.com/video/W1_KEVaCyaA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/yW9gawzZLsk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/ddaqSutt5aw/v-deo.html
As a catholic, i feel like both catholic, and christian churches are corrupt failures, it dissapoints me
Arrogant people exist from all walks of life, but lets be honest, its most deeply entrenched in atheists.
@@JesusSavesSouls Why? By what metric are atheists inherently more arrogant than others? Give me an example of an atheist who is a terrible, narcissistic person and I could give you five christians who are just as or more terrible.
Not saying that Christianity is inherently evil or wrong but that it is much easier to foster a feeling of superiority when your beliefs state that a omniscient being says you are morally superior.
And even if that wasn’t true what quality of being Atheist makes a person more likely to be terrible besides them not sharing your beliefs? Even the average christian realizes that non-christians can be better people than many Christians are, and vice versa, that being a christian doesn’t automatically make you a good person.
Arrogant Christians encompass basically all fanatical Christians - which is a good fraction of them in the US from what I have noticed on UA-cam.
Has it ever occurred to them, that the final straw that drives people away from Christianity could be the arrogance, lies, hypocrisy and hatefulness of apologetisists like this one! It certainly helped drive my journey away from Christianity and religion as a whole!
Apologetic is a short term business model. It only has to enrich the apologetic. He doesn't care about Jesus and Christianity in general.
Imagine being a parent who believes that while they will be in Heaven for eternity can expect their child to suffer in Hell for eternity. The cognitive dissonance that must trigger in the parent ought to be enough to have most of them take desperate and likely very illogical actions/arguments to save their child.
I can confirm this
Sources: personal experience
Oh better than that. Thinking that God called those children in Uvelda to his side in Heaven.
Come to think of it, this pretty much debunks the 'you don't lose anything by believing' argument. You lose your peace of mind. That must be like watching your kid do drugs while being powerless to help them.
@@rhokesh4391 let’s make this a little clearer.
Being addictive to drugs and not being able to help them.
Just doing drugs is not a bad thing necessarily
Those who use and manipulate spirituality to teach people paranoia and reactionary hatred are ultimately responsible for the harm done in such scenarios.
I never understood the "you're rejecting God because you want to sin" argument. If I believe God existed and I wanted to sin, I'd accept God. His followers can sin as much as they want and still go to heaven if they repent. Non-believers could live a life free from sin and still go to hell. How does rejecting God make sin easier?
Because if God exists, sin is wrong. If He doesn't, then it doesn't matter.
@@FrenchLegitimist that assumes I can choose whether or not God exists based on whether or not I want sin to be wrong. That's not a very logical calculation.
Besides, it's easier to ask God for forgiveness than people you actually hurt in life for real transgressions, so it's not a very practical calculation either.
@@SuperWikiMannot just illogical, but self-serving as well.
@@FrenchLegitimistHumans don't need God to consider certain actions to be wrong and worthy of punishment. If you need to believe in God and fear eternal torment in order to not commit wrongdoings, what does that say about you?
@@miaomiaochan
You competely missed the point.
The point is : if God doesn't exist, then there is no objective, universal and rational higher standard on which to objectively and rationally base morality.
Long story short : if God doesn't exist, you can only say that something is wrong, but you can't objectively prove it. Thus, what is wrong is only a matter of opinion and ... why should I care what you think ?
To put it in a different way : if God doesn't exist, then we're only matter ; and cells have no morality.
If God doesn't exist, then we are only animals, and the only moral law for animal is the law of the jungle : survival, might makes right.
In order to define something as good or bad, you have to got a higher standard.
To quote Doestoïevsky (in "The Karamazov Brothers") : "if God doesn't exist [...], then everything is permitted".
I think you're the most compassionate of the atheist youtubers. And often a lot more compassionate than your christian counterparts. Thank you for doing what you're doing.
QUESTION: What's he actually doing??
ANSWER: He is 'fooling' all you ignorant self professing atheists into 'rejecting' the God who sacrificed His 'sinless' life to save you from what you so 'richly' deserve!!
And where there are 'idiots'... he will find 'followers' who are 'foolish enough to 'reject' the ONLY name given under heaven by which they might be saved!
THEREFORE: You can "thank" him in person while you both agonize in hell. Your time is short!
The pandemic shut down made Athiests in name only . More people are afraid of the government and the virus , than God . Their religion is being woke .
Their commandments are social distancing and wear a face diper .
They get their daily preaching from their cellphone .
Their baptism is the vacin .
Their messiah is George Floyd ... Athiests are practicing pandemic people .
On this note, I often question who these apologists are trying to convince or win over? Did they drop the notion of winning the world over for winning the argument? They seem overly combative to me.
@@mainely8007 You must understand that I do NOT give a 'rip' what you decided to "believe"! What you do... will have absolutely no impact on me! I am already saved by the 'sinless' blood of Jesus the Messiah. But if you do not 'want' the forgiveness that Jesus the Messiah sacrificed His 'sinless' life to attain... for 'YOU'... then no one is going to "force" His forgiveness upon you. You are free to pay for your own sin.
And as you already know, the wages of sin... is death!
Heaven or hell is YOUR choice! NOT Gods!!
@@jimhappnin1425 I must say the idea of sinning is strange to me. What do you mean by 'sins'?
I used to be a Christian. I lost that faith due to the hypocrisy, immorality, and dishonesty of the leaders of the religion.
I'm sorry for your expierence when that happened... Those leaders aren't really godly and used by Satan in order to make division and ruining faith in others... Those are from Satan God doesn't want hypocrisy and any bad thing...
Jesus just want love for anybody...not this... I hope it doesn't ruin your faith in relationship with Jesus.
Be blessed.
Much as I genuinely love watching you politely rip Turek's arguments apart, listening to the clips with him in them makes me feel like I'm twelve years old again, listening to my grandmother rant and rave about gay people and non-Christians existing. It's really chilling how similar the experiences are.
He has to find weak believers to pick on because he can't even handle BASIC science, nor can you.
How did you get around the first verses of the bible with God creating and giving life?
Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We KNOW these laws. We have NO doubts about them. We also KNOW that the laws of nature can't come about without a Lawgiver, God.
So if you want to pretend to be smart, please give me the laugh by giving your science how creation really happened by natural means. Also, throw in how we got the laws of nature, naturally.
Life only comes from life. Law of biogenesis.
God is the reason for us and all we have.
ua-cam.com/video/JiMqzN_YSXU/v-deo.html
The odds are NOT there.
ua-cam.com/video/W1_KEVaCyaA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/yW9gawzZLsk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/ddaqSutt5aw/v-deo.html
I think they fall into the SS DD category. They have a limited number of turds to throw so we see frequent(constant?) repeats. I do see your point. The I'm always right attitude radiates from Turek. Never in my life have I seen self-righteousness as a virtue.
I'm an atheist but don't agree about LGBTQ pedo life styles
Not even two minutes in, but Turek's notion that Buddhism entails spiritual belief without ethical imperatives is deeply insulting. Honestly, many of these evangelists wouldn't recognize an ethical principle if it slapped them in the face.
Real ethical the far yeasts, lol!
Buddhism is none of it. And it's distinctly superior to the Abrahamic religions for exactly this reason. Spiritual belief is not foundational to Buddhism, there is no premise of a deity of any kind, and the notion of any authoritarian ethical imperative is seen to be nonsensical when we are the authority for our own experience.
@@starfishsystems So you want a jungle. Is that what you want? Everybody does what they want. That is nots.
@@cowsmuggler1646 why do you need religion to base your ethics? In the abrahamic religions you are literally just doing good, so that good will come back to you. How is that ethical? You dont need religion to tell you everything in this world, you can base your actions on many other factors. Also, dont judge all of Buddhism on a 55 word long youtube comment.
@@cowsmuggler1646 Seems to me that the more Abrahamic religion following nations are the most violent. South America, Africa, the Middle East. Seems like Christ, God, and all the rest don't seem to care about murder and crime among their followers.
I’ve always thought the most frustrating thing about being an atheist is that you’ll never be able to tell people “I told you so” when they die. There will be nothing so they wont know they were wrong.
@TP The Free Thinker The afterlife
Please, don't worry about (or be frustrated by) proving people wrong. it's not worth the hassle on your part, and it doesn't really matter in the long run.
I mean laughing is an option regardless
@@RyokoRHM Not saying I dwell on it. It’s more funny than anything.
@TP The Free Thinker Nah man, I'm pretty sure religios people believe in the afterlife
As an atheist from a family that has been atheist for generations, the reasoning these believers use is baffling.
So give us the evidence and proof that atheism is accurate and correct. Whats baffling is you cannot. And spare us the myriad bullshit definitions and philosophy. Show me your evidence.
This actually adds context to the awful movie "God's Not Dead". I was always baffled by their portrayal of the "atheist" antagonist. In the big climactic moment, he declares that he hates God. That's... not atheism. Religious trauma, sure, but not atheism.
I hated that our youth director screened it for the group. It just feeds harmful misconceptions about people that don't share the same faith.
Yea like he's christian, he literally believes that god exist lol
I literally thought that movie was supposed to satirical. What the hell.
@@ellerymerrilycelery Theres 5 of these movies believe it or not. The third one involves some weird plot where a guy throws a stone through a church window, it somehow hits a gas value, and when another character goes and turns on a light theres a gas explosion killing him and the church goes up in flames and the entire movie pivots to.. the university trying to take over the land that the now destroyed church resides on and expand their land? The guy that threw the stone has a crisis of faith about not wanting to go to prison for (accidentally) causing another person to die. Meanwhile the preacher somehow gets the criminal charges dropped?
The fourth one has a social services person show up unannounced, determine that the homeschooling in the movie doesn't meet common core requirements, and they're given a week to prove that home schooling is sufficient, which somehow ends up in front of a sub-committee of Congress about how vital home schooling is to preserving Christian way of life and ideology against public school atheist brainwashing?
Yup, just another dishonest and/or ignorant christian propaganda brainwash. It's disgusting
I'm always specific about being an anti theist, more than just an atheist
Whenever someone tells me something like that, I just tell them they only claim to believe in Jesus because they're afraid of death. That tends to shut the conversation up pretty quick.
You fear deth. That is why you make up nun cens. Because you fear the afterlife and what is coming to you.
@@cowsmuggler1646 Learn to form coherent sentensus and stop speaking nun cens. Where does the bible talk about Hell? It only talks about deth.
@@cowsmuggler1646 so instead, I would rather believe that there's nothing but... Nothing, after death? Makes no sense my dude
@@pandora4704 Don't you know what you are on about. Maybe put the bong down and then type dude.
@@cowsmuggler1646 Bro, you can barely even form sentences properly, shush.
Every time I see one of these videos, I'm simultaneously filled with dread and excitement. Dread over the sheer nonsense I'm sure to hear from the apologists, but excitement over hearing Drew address it calmly with insight and compassion. Atheism needs more of this. Keep it up, Drew-cifer!
The part where he said he was sleeping with his girlfriend points that out for me quite humorously. No Frank when I am out of here my boyfriend and I are going to go out on the town get high, joke about how inept your sermon was and see if we can not get a third or fourth to join us in bed, god hath giveth me up to iniquity. Hail Satan.
Good one Allan🤣👍
Evolutionist have no facts to back up their worldview, in fact all the facts are on the Bibles side!
God of the Bible has left evidence in every category, so that you are without excuse!
MAPPSSD manuscript evidence archaeology prophecy psychology statistics probability science and DNA
@@n0etic_f0x Do you have requirements for who gets to be your third or fourth in bed?
Attention atheists! You will experience unbearable suffering "for eternity" in your afterlife. There's no reason to worry about your friends and family that are or will be in Heaven as they'll be living their best lives and you'll be forgotten in Heaven except by God... for your failure to acknowledge, worship, and ultimately love God (the creator and sustainer of the universe). Your afterlife/s will be Hell... actual Hell. That's the truth. Don't blame God or anyone else for "your choice" to go to Hell and be seperated from God, that's obtusely moronic and hypocritical. In the end It's actually "your fault." This comment is a warning from your Heavensent and Heavenbound buddy. No need to thank me, I just thought I'd remind you of your "soon to be" horrendous and insufferable afterlife. I don't pity you atheists because you all deserve your fate/s... especially this guy in the video. He's going to get it real bad, atheist influencers will get it the worst for their purposeful misguidance of others, atheists alike are all damned anyways so have fun with that thought... like I do. No sympathy nor empathy for your objective and subjective evil deeds. This truth may hurt your feelings, in that case, welcome back to reality. 😇
This is the second one of your videos I have watched, and it made me step back and look at how I might behave in a religious discussion. I realized that I need to be more about the discussion rather than being right, and that is a good thing.
I’m glad to be of any help!
It's easy to get so preoccupied with "winning" that you forget that the point of the argument is to help both parties see a new perspective and way of thinking... After all, there's 8 billion people, and every single one has different ideas and beliefs about stuff.
I love the whole; "She's not a Buddhist now because she thinks it's true, she's a Buddhist now because she wants to say she's spiritual and not have any moral accountability."
Anyone that knows more about Buddhism than a meditation class knows that when you figure in karma, you are made aware that you have the ultimate in "moral accountability." I wonder about this form of Christianity's theology that states you can do whatever you wish, confess it to Jesus, and be forgiven no questions asked; talk about no "moral accountability."
I mean it’s obvious he could care less to know what the other religions and stuff are.
According to him everyone that isn’t catholic is demon. We all know your not supposed to negotiate or else they will trick you somehow
I’m assuming when he said christians he meant catholics. Still same line of reasoning regardless
You complain about him misinterpreting Buddhism while you misinterpret his Christianity. It's funny how people who dislike Turek are often so similar to him.
@@martinsoukup562 He said "I wonder" implying that he doesn't know for certain. That alone invalidates your argument.
@@a.m.hofmeister725 no it does not.
@@martinsoukup562 "while you misinterpret his Christianity"
Bible literally says the only thing you have to do is say with your mouth that you believe in Jesus and then you will be saved. In fact, it makes a *point* of arguing that "acts" are meaningless and that all you need is faith. So, good acts? Bad acts? Entirely irrelevant. All you have to do is agree that a human sacrifice was all that was needed to get you into heaven and that you agree with that sacrifice and are grateful for it. You don't actually have to *do* anything, esp not when official doctrine throws scorn on "acts".
I just can't get over their attitude of: "This is how it happened, this is how it was, and this is how it is! If you choose not to believe it then you're all going to hell...end of story!"
this is exacty how churches did that in medieval times
And then you get to the “Pearly Gates” and ask for entry…
“No. You remember that incident in the office with your coworker?. Not good!”
“But Father James forgave me for that!”.
“Aaahh. Father James. We need to have a chat with him too!”.
Spanish inquisition lore
As a Christian, I seriously despise people like the dude you just talked about. The worst way to concert someone is to behave in such a way that alienates them. I support your cause, Drew and crew. Empathy and understanding are achievable, and should be the ultimate goal for everyone. Bur first, the disrespect between groups needs to be dealt with.
"I support your cause, Drew and crew."
Then you're some sellout 'christian.' You support a dolt who has his head up his A$$.
How did Drew get around the first verses of the bible with God creating and giving life?
Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We KNOW these laws. We have NO doubts about them. We also KNOW that the laws of nature can't come about without a Lawgiver, God.
Life only comes from life. Law of biogenesis.
God is the reason for us and all we have.
ua-cam.com/video/JiMqzN_YSXU/v-deo.html
The odds are NOT there.
ua-cam.com/video/W1_KEVaCyaA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/yW9gawzZLsk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/ddaqSutt5aw/v-deo.html
Exactly. The world has made more progress in eliciting these behaviors between different countries, races, sexualities, etc., And yet still often refuses to use those constructive mindsets in Religion and let's be real politics.
"The worst way to concert someone is to behave in such a way that alienates them."
Official church has been off its rocker for decades if smearing everyone who doesn't go to their church is any indication. They want converts but they constantly insult those who don't believe as they do or worship as they do. They don't even have respect for fellow believers. They hate Muslims even tho Muslims worship the same god they do. Not only do they hate Muslims they begged Dubya Bush for a Crusade and they cheered as babies were being bombed in Baghdad. All of this over a lie. And when the lie was proven they didn't even reject the liar Dubya Bush but instead elected him again so he could murder more Believers Who Don't Believe Like Them.
A friend with the world is an enmity with Christ, you can't stand with people that make mockery of Christ and claimed you're Christian. I stand with Frank
@@solidground338 You stand here and mock the rest of us, while pretending your religion is about love.
"A friend with the world is an enmity with Christ" - What does that mean? The world is the only thing we have here. That you're so willing to throw out the world makes me wonder why you are so scared of death.
Nearly every fan base of fantasy books become toxic after enough time. The Bible just has had way more time for this effect to happen.
And the books of your beloved Marx, Mao and Dawkins haven't...?
@@edus9636 Haven't read any of those. Also I do not believe any of those books are claimed to be written by a magical sky person who I guess mind controlled some dudes a long time ago to make a manifesto about how everyone needs to love him or get tortured forever.
@@taigenraine The mind controlling and manipulation in education, media and politics using the ideologies of Marx, Mao, Dawkins (among others) make worse manifestos that fantasy books. Hundreds of millions of killed and billions of enslaved people are enough proof of that.
@@edus9636Do yourself a favour, and don't make assumption of what people like.
@@taigenrainei appreciate your humor and also agree xd
Tfw when you’re from one of the least religious countries on earth and are, according to Turek and his ilk, supposed to buy into the ludicrous notion that every person I’ve ever met has willingly been through a process of self inflicted gaslighting.
Goes to show these people rely on their USA-centric view on top of their religiously mandated presuppositions
Absolutely. The US - and particularly the South - is such an inredible outlier. In some respects its a century or more behind the rest of the industrialise world. Despite being up to the mark or even ahead of the curve in others.
Similarly, I'm an atheist who was raised Jewish. I've ignored every single thing written in the New Testament for my entire life.
@@mikeharrison1868 this helps me feel better about having lived in the bible belt all my life. Just gotta bide my time until I can afford to move far, far away; where people won't demand that I can't have the same rights as them because of a religion I don't follow in a country with supposedly separation of church and state. One day at a time...
Attention atheists! You will experience unbearable suffering "for eternity" in your afterlife. There's no reason to worry about your friends and family that are or will be in Heaven as they'll be living their best lives and you'll be forgotten in Heaven except by God... for your failure to acknowledge, worship, and ultimately love God (the creator and sustainer of the universe). Your afterlife/s will be Hell... actual Hell. That's the truth. Don't blame God or anyone else for "your choice" to go to Hell and be seperated from God, that's obtusely moronic and hypocritical. In the end It's actually "your fault." This comment is a warning from your Heavensent and Heavenbound buddy. No need to thank me, I just thought I'd remind you of your "soon to be" horrendous and insufferable afterlife. I don't pity you atheists because you all deserve your fate/s... especially this guy in the video. He's going to get it real bad, atheist influencers will get it the worst for their purposeful misguidance of others, atheists alike are all damned anyways so have fun with that thought... like I do. No sympathy nor empathy for your objective and subjective evil deeds. This truth may hurt your feelings, in that case, welcome back to reality. 😇
@@mikeharrison1868 Saw a comedian once who said some places in the US, people might say they believe in God as "sort of a... force, or spirit, of, like, goodness and stuff". But in the deep South, they'll firmly declare that Jesus is "white, about 30, 6'1", lean but in good shape, like a swimmer, drives a Ford F150, and hunts with a Model 70 Winchester."
Will never understand how some people think "A wizard did it" is a better explanation for anything than literally any other explanation.
It all boils down to this one question: "Who made God?"
The only real answer I ever get is that God is a higher being who always existed as a universal constant, but meanwhile the universe has to have had a creator because it exists. They fail to understand the disparity.
Let me guess you have Santa syndrome; you know when you first found out Santa wasn't real you became an atheist. Either that or extra drippy ice-cream when you were a kid.
@@EspartanicaI've wondered about that and concluded that I'm gonna have to wait and ask. If I die before U I'll try and come back and tell you
@@Asageun If there is an afterlife, that is
@@Espartanica I believe in one, so if there isn't, that answers the god question doesn't it?
Oh man, this is how my parents have been towards me. My family often says I know the truth, I’m just choosing this because of bad experiences with Christian’s. It’s absolutely ridiculous…
you know one thing that's NOT true: that your family are good people who respect you. that's all they've taught.
belief IS sometimes a choice, and the cruel, loveless, delusional behavior you've been put through has given you the perspective to choose not to believe in their bullshit. that's what they don't see.
you ARE choosing this because of bad experiences with christians. and you do know the truth. it's just that the truth you learned to choose to accept due to those experiences is that their cult is bullshit and a nightmare.
and then they won't even allow you the agency to disagree in a way that counts as real.
i don't think there's a hell, but if there is, i strongly suspect they'll be the ones ending up there, not you.
The funny thing is that by insisting you're not a Christian because of bad experiences with Christians, they are creating bad experiences with Christians. So even if they were correct, they're just adding to the problem.
There is a single verse that mentions "Christian" and it says to hate them. Congrats you never read the book and blessed you are to get what you deserve.
Thereby ironically adding to your bad experiences with christians.
truth isnt something you can hear, truth is not something you can told. truth is something you have to see for yourself.
google "sermon on the mount" and yes do read it, takes a good minute to read all of it. then ask yourself "is this the truth?", and if you keep thinking about that for the day, week, or even month, thats god or jesus, and nothing is more truthful than god and jesus.
The notion that God gives up on someone is a deeply unchristian belief in my opinion, a lot of apologetic teaching and rhetoric are so contradictory to the actual teachings of Christ
Contrary to the handful of populist views endorsed by Jesus that everyone likes to bring up over and over. In reality, Jesus' more lovely quotes are also his least original. The parts that actually differentiate him are not so nice.
“Do atheist exist?”
Every Atheist: “Bruh” **disappears**
Yes I'm one of billion
let me be clear
Atheists do not exist they are all paid actors owned by NASA.
One of the major tragedies of being human is that we're smart enough to understand the evolutionary psychology of outgroup bias but unable to escape the evolution that imparted this psychology upon us en masse. All this sound and fury, signifying nothing more than the primal fear of difference.
Translation, we are the smartest dumb creature on the planet.
Humanity: where the rising ape meets the falling angel. Smart enough to see and understand our flaws, not (typically) strong enough to overcome them for long.
An excellent antidote to this sort of bigotry is to travel.
@@starfishsystems True, but that's a luxury not everyone can afford. I've only traveled overseas once, and man, it was expensive. Not something I can do often.
Sooo... god's a quitter then. That explains a lot actually. Thanks Frank.
He's just out to get cigarettes.
Quran [32:12] If only you could see the wicked hanging their heads
˹in shame˺ before their Lord, ˹crying:˺ “Our Lord! We have now seen and heard, so send us back and we will do good. We truly have sure faith ˹now˺!”
@@SasukeUchiha-mp2wh My dude, the only thing that has less worth when it comes to teaching morality at me then the bible... would be the quran. Do yourself a favor, sit the hell back down.
He loves his children with all his heart, but is perfectly content with abandoning them to hellfire for all eternity if they have a rebellious streak for a couple decades.
@@Raptorman0205 So... he's an abusive quitter, he abandons them and tells them it their fault.
Huh, thanks Raptor.
2 Atheists knocked on my door.
They didn't want anything.
Hahaha
The most offensive thing a Christian has said to me is that "I've learned there's no such thing as a real atheist." I was like "Right here for ya!" He just told me I was lying.
It’s like the people who don’t believe bisexuals exist. Dude. Honey. Punkin. You don’t get a vote in what other people think and feel.
There is no such thing as a honest theist.
They are all lying with everything they say.
Would be a great response to them claiming you are lying about being an atheist ^^
@@BestAnimeFreak Idk if they're all lying, but the ones I've debated are doing serious mental gymnastics. Isn't it more reasonable just to admit that the bible is wrong than it is to warp everything to make the world fit within it?
No, it's much easier to believe the bible than to assume the world created itself
@@michaeltorah4002 We know the world didn’t create itself. We also know God didn’t create it. To believe either is a delusion.
14:20 I'm a Progressive Christian and have had Fundamentalists use this on me. "You don't believe exactly the way I do because you want to sin". Responding that there are many different Christian traditions and that many of us do not believe as they do is just met with the no true Scotsman fallacy (or being called an atheist or a Satanist).
Jesus told us he hates those zealots
ua-cam.com/video/WmczFdBeu2c/v-deo.html
@@herzkine Satanism revolves around the idea of not being a (commonly) male genital sometimes referred to as a "shaft" and being your own god. They don't worship Satan.
My mom was Christian, but she was also a genius who questioned everything.
Then sought out her own answers.
When I was young, around 5 or 6 I asked my mom what religion I was.
She said, well I'm a protestant, because that's the church she had been takin to as a child.
But she always wondered if she would still believe.
If not for her parents making her go as a child.
So she let me choose for myself, and never tried to influence me. One way, or the other.
So for me. It was kinda scary at first.
Because I simply didn't know.
My first question to her was, who made God?
She replied, he just always was.
Oh I didn't like that. I was young, but I knew you couldn't get anything from nothing.
"No Chicken, No Eggs"
"Strike one"
Then. I started thinking about the adults that didn't believe in Christianity. Native Americans before 1492 never heard if it.
Aboriginals in Australia same, and most of Africa.
Then I asked my mom did all those people have to go hell because they didn't believe in God. She replied, "I don't know"
"Strike Two"
Then later when I was teenager, still flopping back and fourth, it hit me.
We have invented over 2,000 different deti's over the course our existence,
Christianity is just another failed attempt at trying to explain our existence.
And there was
"Strike Three"
And now I don't fear my own death. Weird right.
"And now I don't fear my own death. Weird right."
This was my exact first reaction when I realized that religion is a scam.
Logical and beautiful
And then everyone clapped
@@Next7Big7Thing7 A personal revelation.
🐸
It is something I have pointed out many times. There have been thousands of Gods in human history. Gods explained things, why crops grow, why it rains, lightning, love and so on. Even an underworld. Then we end up with one God. Yet religion is passed through conquest. Why is the west Christian. I would offer the Roman Empire. When the emperor of the Roman empire took on Christianity so did Rome and then the empire.
I think what Christians dont understand is that we dont really think about how god doesn't exist when doing most things.
Our family priest and my mother (both hardcore Catholics in terms of their faith) tried very hard to get me to become a priest - even though they KNEW I didn't believe in god. I would point out that an atheist priest was a pretty obvious contradiction in terms. These were highly intelligent, educated, loving people who cared deeply about me and respected my intellect and my humanity - so their answers never ceased to both vex and amuse me. Things like: "But you know more about god than most priests I know." or "You know how to speak compassionately to the dying and those in fear of it.", etc.
They were absolutely acknowledging that a self-proclaimed atheist could have a strong moral compass, commitment to compassion, well thought out ethics, etc. And they never actually said they didn't believe that I didn't believe. I'm not sure, then, (and will never be as both have passed,) whether they were more concerned with the principles I would bring to their religious table regardless of my godlessness, or that they really thought I still did believe (or god was still acting through me or something.) Either way, they never insulted me, pushed me away, or tried to tell me what was REALLY in my heart, etc. This meant that our differences of faith/no faith were never allowed to damage our relationships. And I can more than respect that from them.
Plenty of priests don't actually believe in God.
it would be nice if the world worked likethat where the christians and the other monotheistic religions would be rational and not insult non believers. but that will never happen. i would have no issue with christianity if they just kept it to themselves and practiced it at home, not in public and didnt try to get anyone else to follow their religion. if the only way theirgod can convert people is by shoving it down peoplesthroats, acting like fools in public and not respecting other peoples boundaries and whumanity then that god is not all powerful, all knowing, all loving or everywhere at once. a 6 year old that is intelligent could figure out that their god either isnt real or is nothing like the bibvle says, as easily as they would recognize that 1+1 does not equal 3
@@hukmanshaves6939 I'm Christian, but I'm not a preacher.
good then, be a good inspiration and tell your friends to not talk to anyone about jesus and to mind their business and you'll be doing something good
@@SunIsLost
@@royromano9792the current pope has hinted he doesn't believe a word of the bible he uses words like allegorical
Turek's insults left out a few things, such as "your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries".
I fart in your general direction, you son of a silly person!
At least he didn't turn us into a Newt.
Begone, or I will taunt you a second time!
If you want me to believe on god....I shall require...A SECOND HERRING!
@@mnomadvfx i got better...😂
All this messaging does is make it harder for former Christians to have relationships with our families because it enables them to make unfounded claims about who we are and what we believe. Thank you for rebutting this garbage 💙💙
I'm lucky that my entire family has always been atheist and science based - I can't imagine how hard it would be if that wasn't the case, as I would simply cut those people out of my life - which is easier said than done. But you have to take care of you so I hope you are and if you need to cut people out who are toxic then I hope you have the support around you to be able to do that.
@@ross-carlson currently cutting these toxic ppl out of my life. Amidst all the gaslighting and passive aggression, it’s hard to not feel like the crazy one. I’m glad to hear that people have functional family systems based on truth haha
Whackynesss is on the Rise,
and some people who believe sutff like the War-on-Christmas
or Autism-is-Evil or Trump-is-God are literally multiplying
AND running for Office.
So I say: Hbomberguy Fans should check out Telltale and Vice-Versa.
And not to forgot Flat-Earth-Debunkers, which is a whole thing on YT.
Have Fun, learn, inform yourself, and do it all at the same Time.
@NOT BLACK BUT ISRAELITES prove it.
Attention atheists! You will experience unbearable suffering "for eternity" in your afterlife. There's no reason to worry about your friends and family that are or will be in Heaven as they'll be living their best lives and you'll be forgotten in Heaven except by God... for your failure to acknowledge, worship, and ultimately love God (the creator and sustainer of the universe). Your afterlife/s will be Hell... actual Hell. That's the truth. Don't blame God or anyone else for "your choice" to go to Hell and be seperated from God, that's obtusely moronic and hypocritical. In the end It's actually "your fault." This comment is a warning from your Heavensent and Heavenbound buddy. No need to thank me, I just thought I'd remind you of your "soon to be" horrendous and insufferable afterlife. I don't pity you atheists because you all deserve your fate/s... especially this guy in the video. He's going to get it real bad, atheist influencers will get it the worst for their purposeful misguidance of others, atheists alike are all damned anyways so have fun with that thought... like I do. No sympathy nor empathy for your objective and subjective evil deeds. This truth may hurt your feelings, in that case, welcome back to reality. 😇
As an atheist for past 60 years, I've avoided dealing with fanatical believers who just want to stroke each other.
You are such a great speaker. I love how thought-provoking and gentle your content is. The world needs more respectful fact-based discourse.
Amen.
Gentle - you're so right Katie, he's gentle and I really love that about him.
After having read the Bible cover to cover multiple times, I came to the conclusion that it is a manual on how to run a totalitarian dictatorship, based on a cult of personality.
I'm so sorry you wasted all that time.
When I read Romans 1:18-20 now, I actually see Paul alluding to a "look at the trees" type of argument. What he's really saying is that he's so convinced that God exists that it appears obvious to him, and since it's so obvious to him, it must therefore be obvious to everyone else. Thus, everyone believes.
That’s how I tend to read it too. Not much different than how many religious people think today
tfw the ''self-evident thesis'' is more ''self'' than ''evidence''
Ah yes, Paul, the poster boy of Cognitive Dissonance.
It makes me wonder, then, why it is necessary to "spread the gospel."
I think this is one of the biggest issues when believers try to convince non-believers. To a believer God is self evident, within everything and impossible to miss, while this simply isn’t the case for a non-believer. Of course you can’t “prove” God, it’s a matter of faith, that’s why they call it belief and why trying to convert or deconvert someone based on evidence is futile.
I'm an atheist, married to a Christian girl, I go with her to church most weekends (about five years now). I don't mind their teachings because they're generally just telling ppl to do good etc. There are some elders that I don't agree with and I totally switch off and I find that they're the more pushy/hard selling type, calling everything in the bible as facts, god telling us to do etc etc... And there's no other way to think. I can understand why some religions can tell ppl to strap a bomb to themselves in the name of god. It can be quite manipulative if taken in the wrong direction. Religions to me are just moral guides invented thousands of years ago to control people.
My favorite part of Christianity is how God is all knowing, all powerful, and ever-present but it’s the devil’s fault when anything bad happens
My favorite part is how god decided to punish the devil for rebelling by locking him in hell..... later. He gets a few thousand years to mess everything up first.
I think it’s more like, humanity is given free will but their choices come with consequences we wouldn’t have to face if we were still completely beholden to God like angels.
@@billfox847 Ah, so not free will at all. 'Worship me or suffer, your choice" isn't a real choice, it's a threat.
@@lulzdragon7339 thing is, you’ll suffer no matter what haha. We’re human so we will do wrong and karma will get us back. But you can choose to turn to God if you want. Or not
@@lulzdragon7339 that is exactly what one of my teachers once said. You get free will, but you will get punished for exercising it...
Turek is one of those christians who would never agree that Christianity is false no matter what. So when people criticize Christianity people like turek would only see the criticizers as "liers", "ignorants","hiding the truth" etc since they can't accept that their beloved religion is false 👀
his livelihood depends on it , no?
@@gidmanone Obviously
Cognitive dissonance is a b*tch...
Newly born christians are all about love and compassion towards others. But when their beliefs become logically inconsistent, they must become stubborn, or else they lose their faith.
I chose not to become stubborn.
@@ovelhoranzinza4021 That's generally before they've encountered the less desirable parts of Christianity, at least as it is relevant to them. No advertiser of the faith brings up the difficult parts of Job, where God lets Satan ruin his faithful follower's life for a bet and treats him like garbage when Job asks why, or the part where some children were killed for making fun of a bald prophet.
As a Christian, I want to say thank you. I appreciate the coherent explanation and tone of your discussion. You have exhibited more Christianity in your dialogue than the vast majority of Christians I know.
The christians i know are all alright, we are talking mostly about bible throwing, self centered evangelical zealots here. The type Jesus warned us they would come using his name.
thats because Christianity takes away peoples morality
if you like i can prove that with substantial logical and imperial evidence
@@jamesfiebig8802 Not necessary. Anyone who has accepted religiosity must also suspend the rational process that evolved which causes us to be moral. The Christian religion is politics and as such creates in groups and out groups.In groups that use all means of violence to prove they are right. Faith has no proof. A Christians foundation for his life must be pure belief that Jesus is who he said he is. Very few people have accepted the faith necessary to be free of violence of proof. I have no proofs for God other than Christ crucified, a scandal and a stumbling block. Ironically Christ is the only true Nietzschian I know.
@@herzkine Anyone who believes that punishment consists of being literally burned with fire, endlessly, is evil.
When I was 15 to 17, I read the Bible twice, from Genesis to Apcalypse, only skipping over boring genealogies. At the end of the process, I was an atheist.
Atheist: Does god know what it would take in order for me to believe He exists?
Christian: Yes! In fact, he’s already provided that evidence.
A: Really? Then why don’t I believe?
C: You do believe. You just suppress the truth in unrighteousness because you want to escape accountability for your sins.
A: If I want to escape accountability for my sins, shouldn’t I become a Christian?
C: ………
Good one😂😂😂😂
ouch. that hits hard
It seems like child abusers have done exactly that
I've asked my (Christian) parents about this fallacy before I knew it was a widespread thing atheists knew about, and their response was along the lines of "No, that's not what being a true Christian is about. It's about Jesus." Sooo they completely avoided talking about it and just circled back to the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Attention atheists! You will experience unbearable suffering "for eternity" in your afterlife. There's no reason to worry about your friends and family that are or will be in Heaven as they'll be living their best lives and you'll be forgotten in Heaven except by God... for your failure to acknowledge, worship, and ultimately love God (the creator and sustainer of the universe). Your afterlife/s will be Hell... actual Hell. That's the truth. Don't blame God or anyone else for "your choice" to go to Hell and be seperated from God, that's obtusely moronic and hypocritical. In the end It's actually "your fault." This comment is a warning from your Heavensent and Heavenbound buddy. No need to thank me, I just thought I'd remind you of your "soon to be" horrendous and insufferable afterlife. I don't pity you atheists because you all deserve your fate/s... especially this guy in the video. He's going to get it real bad, atheist influencers will get it the worst for their purposeful misguidance of others, atheists alike are all damned anyways so have fun with that thought... like I do. No sympathy nor empathy for your objective and subjective evil deeds. This truth may hurt your feelings, in that case, welcome back to reality. 😇
ive been an atheist for around 8 years since my sister told me that what my school taught me was false by dismantling it in one sentence. this channel has helped me understand exactly why this is the case and defend myself against annoyed christians who want to try an dissuade me when i dont have a concise answer. i do still have respect for religious people, just not ones who try and force their ideas on me. Thanks.
as an agnostic person, I'm rather curious what sentence your sister said. Mind sharing?
@@sams-hx7hm It was a while back, I dont exactly remember what it was, but it was to do with Adam and Eve. I think it was relating to stuff as to "how the f did we come from 2 people when incest is a thing"
@@1eel99 interesting how you think you should be athiest due to that. Why are you conflating mythology and religion with god??
@@1eel99 perfect creation dumbing down.
The idea is that Adam and Eve were biologically perfect, so the deformities that would/could have arose would be far less significant.
Over time, our genetics got worse.
I get the problem, but disagree that it is an actual problem when you don’t confine God into basic things
@@handhelder823 Huh, interesting way of thinking about it that I've never considered. Originally 2 people, then a few generations down the line there's minor genetic mutations which allow incest to be a thing. To be clear, I am still an athiest and believe in the modern scientific theory because of the evidence I have been presented with. It's interesting though to see the reasoning behind some of it. I might ask a few of my Christian friends about their reasoning and maybe do some research into some gray areas I'm not sure about. Thanks for sparking my curiosity in this topic (probably quite accidentally lol).
Wow... In Turek's mind, I have to either: A. Know God exists but just want to sin, or B. Not know God exists because I used to be A and God gave up on me.
There's tons of people raised in places dominated by non-Christian cultures. Where even just *finding* a Christian Bible is completely impossible, let alone a practicing congregation to join and learn from.
Hell, there's even people in the world who have never heard of Christianity at all because of how remote they are. Cultures that don't believe in ANY God. Cultures that just believe in ancestral spirits and stuff, where the concept of a "god" is downright abstract.
It's like he truly can't wrap his head around the idea that the world doesn't revolve around his highly specific religion.
He probably can't even wrap his head around the idea that the world revolves in the first place
So people like me, who was raised by a loving minister; me who respects other peoples religion because i saw the BEAT religion can give people as well as the worse, but due to their own exploration of the world, figured out quite quickly that goes doesnt exist…. I just want to sin???
Lol. Other than the “not believe in god” think, i doubt i have an sins on my list. Cause im sooooo boring.
It does though.
@@tanyanguyen3704 I hated when I finally was able to say I was atheist because I didn't want to disappoint my pastor, and I still, years later, haven't had the heart to tell him. He was a family friend before he became a minister, and was the man who headed the funeral services of plenty of my family. Genuinely good man, and that makes it tons of times harder to just have a normal conversation with him at family events.
Getting saved is real somehow, but it’s unprovable, quite the dilemma, some people it will trigger mental illness, unless give yourself over completely, but nobody has done that, well maybe mother Theresa, but she would not brag about it
Before original sin, Adam and Eve lived in paradise. They lived without sin. But they weren't the ones who invented Evil. Evil was already present in the paradise created by God. It was this Evil that persuaded Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Therefore, Evil is a creation of God.
I’ve thought of myself as an atheist for 6-7 years now. I’ve always felt bad about it because I was raised Christian. Thanks for helping me feel more comfortable with my atheism.
Lifelong unbeliever here, never felt bad about it. But yeah, being Dutch can be an advantage.
Grew up Christian, decided God was not real in 2018 cause even if he was he's basically a horrible being that is hypocritical and not also all powerful either to prevents the things that occur. However really he is just a man made concept that people never grew up from cause for some reason we believe ancient people were more knowledged than us with today's science... don't feel bad. Feel relieves you aren't sheep.
@TechSpectrum you grew up Christians and later found out that Something came out Nothing lol🤣🤣 atheist are funniest people
@@DevTechSpectrum I like the way you put that, “a concept people never grew up from” and clearly this solid ground guy did not grow up
@@solidground338 yeah the magic man that walks on water and cures the blind is also pretty funny.
Gotta love how their banner in the back there says, "persuading with the truth". Truth isn't trying to persuade. It just gives the facts as we know them.
You don't have any facts. Just lyes.
@@cowsmuggler1646 And yet here you are lying.
@@cowsmuggler1646 is your whole universe consisting of a chemical workshop or something? Where DO you live, if you only have lyes around you?! o.O (Hope you can still find some acidic solutions around, to neutralize those lyes, since otherwise they'd be really corrosive!)
@@irrelevant_noob dad?
This is exactly the kind of approach to religious discourse that we *need* right now. Convincing someone on either side to convert to the other isn't just difficult, it also isn't something we should be striving for IMO. The emphasis should be on respect and reaching a mutual understanding. If there were more people with this attitude, the climate around religion wouldn't be so hostile and polarizing. You're doing good work.
I guess I participate in this form of discourse to combat the kind of christian who is working hard to see a christian nationalist theocracy put in place. They are beyond hostile and polarizing; they are as dangerous as SA brownshirts.
I agree. I’m so tired of Christians trying to tell me who I am or what I believe.
Well, Jesus did say he came to divide and not unify. And there definitely are some things that I would NOT compromise with. Sometimes there is absolutely no room for mutual understanding. Would you seek mutual understanding with someone who insists the world is flat and won't budge on his position? I wouldn't. You can't compromise and say the world is a cylinder.
I understand that all types of religious people, without exception, want you to join their particular club and observe their particular rules, and believe in their particular fairy tales. Some of them are just more violent in their desire to impose their will on other people.
Why should I want to respect and understand a Moslem fanatic who wants to kill people who give up the Moslem faith, or a deep south Christian evangelist lunatic who wants to ban not only abortion, but even birth control advice to teenagers. You can't reason with these people, because THEY KNOW THEY ARE RIGHT!
I find it difficult to respect any one who wants me to change my attitudes and lifestyle to meet their imaginary requirements.
The type of Christianity today is not open to that! They want to co-opt everyone's existence!
I love how he's saying scientists cannot explain why we exist, yet his explanation is "god made us in 1 day" what about evolution?
The problem is “why” is the wrong question. It’s based on a humanocentric, arrogant view of the Universe that presumes there has to be a REASON why humans exist. It’s inconceivable to them that we exist because of trillions of random factors across an incredibly vast universe could result in people. It’s a failure of imagination, really, and an inability to comprehend cosmic scale.
@@Wud-f2r It is impossible for us to truly comprehend how big space is and how many solar systems there are out there. The duration of the universe so far is an amount of time so big that we can't really grasp how long it really is compared to our limited existence.
@@loganmedia1142 and I think this is part of the fundamental problem - the sheer scale of both space and time is something they can’t wrap their heads around, so they retreat to a more primeval view of the universe, putting humanity at the center of all things to stroke their egos.
It was actually 6 days and one day to rest except he was wrong about space planets and dinosaurs and evolution
A few months after my family found out I was an atheist, I had to go to the ER for gallstones. I ended up having to be rushed into emergency surgery once they realized I was in a very life threatening situation.
Anyway, my mom took me to the hospital in the middle of the night. This was by far the worst pain I had ever experienced in my entire life and it had been going on for hours at this point. My mom heard me repeating something like "fucking please. God. Fuck. Please. Fuck. God please. Fuck," the entire time. Finally we get to the ER and into a room. I'm given morphine and apparently mom was scared the nurses and doc would think I was high because I could barely answer their questions due to the pain. As soon as they left my room and I was sitting there enjoying the first few moments of not being in pain, she says "I guess you do believe in God."
I was fuming. I was in an extremely vulnerable position that very nearly killed me and she decided to bring this up. I tried to explain to her the I don't believe in God. I "cursed god" while I was in pain because I live in a culture where that is a norm regardless of religious belief. She eventually dropped it, but it made me so angry.
I understand exactly what you mean. My mother was brought up in a convent run by nuns from age 5 and was quite religious. She tried to indoctrinate us with it, I resented her for it for many years.
Atheist women say omg in the throes of passion .😀
People say Jesus Christ !
This is not nessercerarly a sign of belief in god any more than when one says f*\®ing hell! means one believes in hell and therefore heaven.
@@julianwaugh8221 For emphasis, I'd like an opportunity to say "by Aphrodite's tits!" But By Jove is more acceptable.
@@julianwaugh8221 Lol!.To be honest, I think cursing God is a much stronger sign of belief than prayer! That's just me, I freely admit.
@@julianwaugh8221
I say it just to upset the religious. During the holidays, after everyone says a prayer over the food, I yell out ...and HAIL SATAN, just to see their faces contort lmao
I became atheist by trying to prove the religion....through honest research and study.
you returned to be an atheist. I mean, you were born NOT believing in any deity.
anyway, welcome to the word of sane adults
@@istvansipos9940 you mean insane adults. You have to turn on auto correction
@@michaeltorah4002 no. I meant sane adults. It is insane to believe that a deity exists. Especially the abrahamic gods, which are impossible by definition.
That's why nobody can define them in a reasonable way. Nobody has ever presented ONE testable claim about them or about their magic. Thus, we cannot even hope to start any process towards any evidence about any deity.
feel free to give it a try, though.
@@istvansipos9940 That's neuroscientifically untrue. Stop repeating this.
@@dharmadefender3932 then please, do go into the details.
How is it sane to believe magic? With 0 testable claims about magic, we cannot even hope to start looking for evidence. And we already have a lot of evidence that magic is fiction, and that the bible is wrong.
how is it sane to believe the bible then?
(it is not)
If they didn’t have a bible as ‘evidence,’ they would have no argument to present
You underestimate a fanatic's ability to fabricate nonsensical arguments
It’s funny that you’re dismissing the most read collection of books ever, filled with historical eyewitness accounts as a lack of evidence seeing as how that more than meets the legal requirements to sentence a man to life in prison or to the death sentence. Are you saying that our legal system in the US is a bunch of nonsense? Hope your claim never gets used against you in court. 😂
@@DrJoshuaPerry It's not because some books in the bible contain /some/ elements that relate to history (most notably to the history of the Jews and Judea), that it offers any evidence for the existence of a god. Deep down you know this, but you will never admit it, so why am I even taking the trouble of responding...
By your logic, if Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code - with its inclusion of some facts about Da Vinci - ever becomes more popular than the Bible, you would take this entire book as historical truth.
@@AH-te5gs You know full well the only historical fact that even matters is the resurrection of Jesus, and we have hundreds of eyewitnesses to that fact in the Bible and elsewhere, and deep down you know that’s all the evidence we need to show that the God proven by the cosmological proof is this God of the Bible, unless you’re arguing that E =mc^2 and the Second Law of Thermodynamics are nonsense. How about a little intellectual honesty?
my dad gave me a Turek book to try and talk me out of being atheist. I didn't have the heart to tell him I've already listened to dozens of hours of his drivel and it did nothing but embolden me.
I'll let him know my thoughts after I read it..
I'm always amused (and I use that term loosely) by people who tell me why I'm an atheist, especially those who say I just want to sin or that being a Christian was too much work or whatever.
I fought HARD to hold on to my faith. HARD. I converted to Christianity of my own free will as a teenager, so it wasn't like I was indoctrinated from infancy. I wanted to stay a Christian. But when the doubts came in, people kept telling me to pray and read my Bible. So I did. I'd already read the Bible once, and I read it again as someone having a crisis of faith. By the time I'd finished, I wasn't a Christian anymore for a number of reasons, but I did still believe in a god of sorts. And I tried for so, so long to keep believing. But eventually, I realized there was no one listening. There was no one there. The day I finally said, "I'm an atheist," was the most freeing day of my life. Not because I could go forth and sin like crazy, but because I could finally stop fighting. I could finally stop losing sleep over Hell and the Rapture. It wasn't that I could finally sin -- it was that I could finally BREATHE.
It's been over 15 years now, and I'm still quite happily an atheist. But Lord, the people who decide I took the easy road... SMH.
How was the rspture a nightmare zif You ever loved Jesus Would it not have been the one thing you looked forward to
@@ptk8451 Because when the Rapture is being sold to you alongside "if you step out of line, you'll be left behind/burn in hell"... that creates some serious anxiety for the young Christian who's terrified they're not believing hard enough or being a good enough Christian or whatever. I went through periods of having doubts and asking questions, which made that fear burn even hotter. I had literal nightmares about the Rapture happening while I was trying to sort out what I believed, and being left behind because I was still figuring out my faith.
And when I started to question my faith and ultimately pull away from Christianity, that fear intensified because if I was wrong, I was going to be left behind. Which is exactly the point of that fear-based dogma: to make people afraid to question anything or doubt what they're being told, because at ANY moment, the Rapture could hit and you're left behind. It was honestly the thing that had me holding on to being a Christian the longest -- not because I actually believed it, but because the thought of NOT believing it and being wrong scared me.
The fear finally went away when I walked away from Christianity.
@@ptk8451how can you love an omnipotent omniscient being who will torture you for eternity if you don't love him?
I lovr an omnipotent God who loved me do much thst He gave His only begotten Son to take my punishmrnt so that I will escape the eternal torture that His justice demands
@@ptk8451 Congrats, I guess? As for me, I can't reconcile any of that with love. There is nothing loving about creating imperfect beings, punishing them for being imperfect, funneling that torture onto someone else, and then demanding love and appreciation for that sacrifice or else you get to be tortured after all.
That's like having a kid, setting impossibly high standards, then shooting the family dog in front of the kid so the dog can take the kid's punishment, and then demanding the kid love you for it or else. You could've just adapted your standards to the creature you created who you KNEW couldn't meet them, but no, this is the much more loving approach.
No, thanks. At its core, that dogma is all about fear of Hell and punishment, not love or gratitude. You can keep it.
A nice examination. As an ex-Methodist preacher who still has strong links with the Franciscans and Jesuits: Your approach was measured and respectful.
I became more open regarding 'The Big Guy' when I lost faith in those who claimed to believe in him.
Being able to get people to sit down and calmly consider things is a challenge these days, especially when many in the US have nailed themselves to a man who cannot cite a single verse of the Bible and openly does everything they rise and rally against from their pulpits.
Back when I was a Christian, I was taught that all non-Christians are essentially bad people, and that they refuse to follow God because they want to be evil. I was never comfortable with this perspective. Trying to come up with my own solution to this was one of the factors that led me to abandon Christianity.
Christians are bad people too. The prophets were deeply flawed and that was the point. God took broken and flawed people and raised them up. We are all wicked by our sin nature but God is the ultimate morality and some people reject that for lustful pleasures of the flesh instead of accepting the free gift of salvation.
I am a Christian, and I absolutely love your points, Drew!
I had a conservative Christian teacher in high school very similar to Frank Turek. I believe the decline of my mental health and eventual need of counseling was at least partially due to my interactions with Frank Turek-like attitudes throughout highschool. So, I'm glad to see you calling out this type of toxic Christianity.
Oh, also based on my limited study just now, I'm actually not sure if Romans is even referring to Atheists. At this time some sort of polytheism would have been the most likely alternative to belief in the one Hebrew God. So God-haters could refer simply to haters of the Hebrew God. This also makes much more sense in regards to verses 28-32, since other pagan religions during this time did participate in many vile, repulsive and disgusting sexual acts. I am a Christian, and I've noticed that for some reasons Christians are quick to think that everything negative in the Bible is about seculars or atheists, when in reality the Bible puts forth a lot of negative rebukes against even the Israelites and in Bible prophecy the main focus of the Bible is on Churches that act selfish, prideful, manipulative, and judgmental.
Yea
There is not a lot of evidence for these "vile acts" that polytheists allegedly performed. The Romans accused Christians of ritual cannibalism and eating babies. It seems that Christians in the early period had similar misconceptions regarding those around them.
You make some good points!
Many “ pagan” religions also engaged in behavior that involved kindness, decency, and mutual respect. Most historically weren’t “God-haters” and many believed that a person’s spiritual beliefs - Christian or otherwise - were their own business and respected those of other faiths as long as they were in turn respected. Please don’t assign to “pagans” (a blanket category that tends to mean “any religion but my own”) an inherent tendency toward repulsive or degenerate acts…you know, like abusing altar boys. Or engaging in ritualistic symbolic cannibalism.
So as someone who was indoctrinated, the guilt feelings still arise. This pastor's sanctimonious tone while only discussing emotional aspects of belief, rather than logical aspects, is frustrating and sometimes scary. It is so easy for Christians to write off someone's beliefs as arrogant and "sinful". "Oh you just don't believe in god because you want to sin"... or when I mention some stuff in the bible that doesn't make sense... "Oh so you think you can understand god's divine plan? That's arrogance". What's worse is the punishment for not going along with their ideas is eternal suffering in hell -- another scare tactic.
I'm grateful the people in my life are amazing people and we still have lovely relationships despite religious disagreements but it is unfortunate that when you step foot into one of these churches, these are the typical arguments you'll hear. Also I'm agnostic but I respect everyone's right to believe what they wish. If someone finds Buddhism, great. If someone finds Christianity, great. If someone finds Islam, great. As long as they find that the religion's worldview allows them to live a life full of love, kindness, and respect for others.
We aren't guaranteed anything in life. We aren't guaranteed money, we aren't guaranteed we will live long, we aren't guaranteed we'll be born without deficiencies. We aren't guaranteed we'll have parents who love us. We aren't guaranteed we'll find a life partner. We aren't guaranteed anything after death.
With all this in mind, all I can do is try to be kind to those around me and find things I am passionate about doing and try to help others. All I can do is be honest and seek the truth in our current understanding of the universe. If that means I'm arrogant and deserve hell, well, I'm only human... I'm doing my best.
"Oh, you just want to sin." So, why exactly would that be a problem? They want to do a thing that this group's morality system says isn't okay, so they're leaving to be with people who are okay with it. That's a perfectly reasonable, healthy alternative to damaging repression of normal, healthy human desires. So even if the idiot fundies were right... it still wouldn't be anything worth criticizing! Even if they're right, they're wrong!
I’m here to discuss the evidence for the Bible that’s why I’m a believer. God has left evidence in every category so that mans without excuse so pick a category, let me show you! I want you saved and going to heaven instead of going to hell!
What were you church of Christ or Pentecostal?
Whenever i hear that God's plan can't be understood, or that God works in mysterious ways, all i can think of is "he so loved us that he created us dumb".
The point being, i don't know any parents that wish their kids were dumb, because when you love somebody you don't wish that for them.
@@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear Yeah. That's always such a BS argument. God may work in mysterious ways, but I can only see and judge actions based on the senses and understanding that _he supposedly gave me._ So yes, if God's actions seem evil and unloving I will call them that, and if he wanted them to not be construed that way he oughtn't have made people who cannot perceive his super amazing totally awesome for sure plan.
Attention atheists! You will experience unbearable suffering "for eternity" in your afterlife. There's no reason to worry about your friends and family that are or will be in Heaven as they'll be living their best lives and you'll be forgotten in Heaven except by God... for your failure to acknowledge, worship, and ultimately love God (the creator and sustainer of the universe). Your afterlife/s will be Hell... actual Hell. That's the truth. Don't blame God or anyone else for "your choice" to go to Hell and be seperated from God, that's obtusely moronic and hypocritical. In the end It's actually "your fault." This comment is a warning from your Heavensent and Heavenbound buddy. No need to thank me, I just thought I'd remind you of your "soon to be" horrendous and insufferable afterlife. I don't pity you atheists because you all deserve your fate/s... especially this guy in the video. He's going to get it real bad, atheist influencers will get it the worst for their purposeful misguidance of others, atheists alike are all damned anyways so have fun with that thought... like I do. No sympathy nor empathy for your objective and subjective evil deeds. This truth may hurt your feelings, in that case, welcome back to reality. 😇
"Bad Faith" takes on a completely different meaning with Turek and his ilk. The fact that not only do these people exist, but other people actually listen to them is simply horrifying.
Why no successful atheist country? They all fail.
If Romans 1:20 is true, then the "Great Commandment" to go make disciples is utterly meaningless.
I think it depends on how Rom 1:20 is interpreted. Later in Romans, Paul writes about how faith comes from what is heard (10:14-17). Whatever Rom 1:20 means, it's unlikely that Paul is contradicting his point later in the same letter where making disciples isn't meaningless to him.
Attention atheists! You will experience unbearable suffering "for eternity" in your afterlife. There's no reason to worry about your friends and family that are or will be in Heaven as they'll be living their best lives and you'll be forgotten in Heaven except by God... for your failure to acknowledge, worship, and ultimately love God (the creator and sustainer of the universe). Your afterlife/s will be Hell... actual Hell. That's the truth. Don't blame God or anyone else for "your choice" to go to Hell and be seperated from God, that's obtusely moronic and hypocritical. In the end It's actually "your fault." This comment is a warning from your Heavensent and Heavenbound buddy. No need to thank me, I just thought I'd remind you of your "soon to be" horrendous and insufferable afterlife. I don't pity you atheists because you all deserve your fate/s... especially this guy in the video. He's going to get it real bad, atheist influencers will get it the worst for their purposeful misguidance of others, atheists alike are all damned anyways so have fun with that thought... like I do. No sympathy nor empathy for your objective and subjective evil deeds. This truth may hurt your feelings, in that case, welcome back to reality. 😇
The cosmological argument (for the existence of God) is the ultimate version of a long series that started when some cave man dutifully explained to his companions that lightning strikes could only be explained by a supranatural entity, or a whole bunch of them. Acknowledging ignorance has always been difficult for the human race
Turek is the same guy who will claim that you have more faith than he does, which makes you less intelligent and less moral than him, then turn around and claim that because he has faith and you don't, you're less intelligent and less moral than him. This is par for the course for that dude.
The author probably didn't think there WOULD BE a 2000 years later. He probably expected the kingdom to come very soon.
The Abrahamics rule the roost. Before, only Juice prayed to God. A minuscule minority. Now you doll and dooders people are the small minority. Because it is the Kingdom of God.
@@cowsmuggler1646 Oh yeah, Antiochus must have really not liked Juice, he must have rathered Coke like a big boy. Oh no, I'm a doll and dooler, whatever shall I do?!!😢
@@irish_deconstruction You love arte, don't you? Maybe you love your Celtic heritage. You are idyll warships. But it since it is the Kingdom of God. You can't openly admit to loving your cartoons and dolls.
@@cowsmuggler1646 Your grammar is brilliant, where did you learn it from?
@@irish_deconstruction Why don't go pray to your Irish dolls, I mean "preserve" your history and heritage.
you are clear, calm, articulate and not smug. We need more people like you
@Caitlyn Carvalho "on the contrary he believes ALL HOLLYWOOD FILMS have strong Christian themes, even Harry Potter"
While not all of them do, a great many of them do - especially superhero films.
The reason is pretty simple.
Hollywood targets first and foremost the domestic US audience - which has a significant percentage of Christians lapsed or otherwise for whom Christian themes and imagery will resonate consciously or subconsciously.
It's actually a very clever marketing trick designed to weaponise religion into a built in audience that is likely to pay to see their films.
And yes even Harry Potter - strip away the magic part and consider the strong imagery of Harry Potter's mother sacrificing her own life to give protection to her infant son which effectively defeats Voldemort aka "wizard Satan".
Then in the final film Harry Potter does exactly the same thing, only his sacrifice affords protection to all of his friends from wizard Satan and he is himself cleansed by the act and 'reborn' to defeat wizard Satan once more.
Superman fFilms like Man of Steel and Superman Returns just about bash you over the head with it because their writers have ZERO SUBTLETY - even showing Superman fly up and in front of the sun forming a cross with their body before flying back down to Earth.
The entire speech of Jor El in the 1978 Superman film is 1 million percent aimed at Christians:
"I am sending you, my only son Kal El......."
So ye - love it or despise it Hollywood are definitely using Christians to fund their industry, best get used to the idea because they've been doing it for longer than you have been alive.