Why You Should Be Using Heavy BBs For Airsoft
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Myths, facts, and nerd physics nobody asked for. Acquire a tangible advantage over local players with this one weird trick.
Airsoft Trajectory Project: mackila.com/air...
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio.
This is actually the craziest simplistic breakdown I've ever seen. Great job man
Not simplistic, merely concise.
"Simplistic" denotes over-simplified.
@@animal0motherok
Finally, someone presenting some actual fucking science!
Been playing Airsoft for over 10 years now, and I’ve gotten pretty tired of the same old bullshit “discussions” where people just sit parroting what their favourite UA-camr said, or desperately trying to justify the grand they dumped into their gun on “upgrades” when in actuality it performs practically the same as it did before.
Fantastic video mate. Would be cool to see you break down myths when it comes to range and accuracy too.
Ive literally heard guys say the bb keeps gaining speed for the first 5-10 feet and thats why 0.2s hurt at close range because they fly super fast and pick even more speed making them overpowered
A much needed video, it suprises me how there is very little on this topic considering how fundamental it is to airsoft.
Also suprising how basic math and physics baffle so many people like its black magic.
I came in here with a chip on my shoulder because of knowing how RIFLE ballistics work and assumed at least 90% of it would be true for air based BB rifles, pleasantly surprised to see HOW wrong I was, good work brother
It's quite different isn't it! I was surprised too.
I would assume airsoft ballistics would be closer to muskets as they are smoothbore instead of rifled. True air rifles (.177 cal pellets) have characteristics much more similar to firearms because of their rifled barrels.
I find it funny but am also glad this is still getting discussed, and that the ATP is still being referenced after all these years. Gun Gamers made a video about this like 4 years ago with their testing, and they also basically proved the numbers on the ATP were accurate.
of course rhey would. The Gungamers rock!
Damn, everything I found out for myself, in like 18 years of playing, condensed into 8:48. I feel like I needed this way earlier..... and also I feel old.
As we are woodland players, we needed to know all this because it was always about maximizing range. Tho we didn't know, that they carry speed way better. Only things I use anything below a 0.3g BB is Shell shotguns and ofcourse Smart Shells.
Great vid, thanks!
Yeah, back when I started playing most advice for optimal range was simply “400+ FPS and extended barrel”.
One time someone told me that is gun is so shit, cause it doesn't improved in range: "Man I tried everything, I use a Titan battery and several new motors" ... omg.. he used the same 5yr old JG stock bucking😂
@@di4mondpl4ys45😂😂😂😂
I use the heaviest possible bbs that the hop up can handle in a specific replica. And so the tri-shot cyma shotgun (after Teflonfix on all 3 inner barrels and sealing the nozzle-HU chamber system) sends 0.28g bbs over 50m. The R32 nightstorm army armament (ML 2021 autobot bucking and crazyjet 138mm) has an effective range of 65-70m using 0.4g. Desert eagle L6 WE (with inner barrel 240mm x6.02mm, Mr Hop 2021 ML bucking) 75-80m with 0.4g bbs. L96 well (TM clone), lambda one 500mm, ML bucking, stock spring (in stock gun 420-430fps), heavy piston - 95M with 0.4g bbs.
I would interested to see the joule creep in certain Gas guns. Many of my fields limit joules and I have heard that increasing bb weight can quickly take a TM and have it shooting over field limits
this is where adjustable NPAS come into play. That way you can stay in field limits while using heavier bbs :)
My stock MWS barely has a change in joules, it has a really wide and short inner barrel so it barely creeps
@@codemy666 I have the AKM and I have heard it has an issue with the Joule Creep but I don't know if it's a big deal as an American player.
@@TehPh1L does the NPAS go in the gun or on the mags?
Goes into the gun @@LtStopid
Well presented 👍 The only limiting factor for me is cost of course. I think 0.28g is the best cost/performance (at least with UK prices)
For gamer kids who live and die on ping times: 1 seconds = 1,000ms, 0.5 seconds = 500ms, 0.01 seconds = 10ms etc.. For anyone who hand loads rifle ammo for accuracy, this video is very easy to understand however at the fractional weights and speeds the outcomes are very different than the time in flight vs bucking the wind arguments of combustible accelerate operated weapons (real guns).
This needs to become a "required reading" for new (and most veteran) airsoft players!
Thanks for this outstanding video - as usual!
I'm glad YT suggested this channel to me. Thanks for the work you put into this video. I will be sharing this.
I pretty much use .32g BBs in all my guns. Pistols, 1j SMGs and rifleman class, 1.5j guns. I want to try some .36g BBs, but damn, that price break is just silly.
Same, I also use .32 but I want something that will not be as affected by the wind.
We need more XE videos! Just got back into airsoft and decided to only use gbbrs, love your channel man. Super high quality vids yet simple. Keep it up!!
Still impressed with every single video. Always learning more and more. Thanks
This is almost the same reason why long range cartridges use heavier projectiles. The heavier, match projectiles of a rifle benefit from advanced aerodynamics, but in either case we're talking primarily about the sectional density component of the ballistic coefficient.
A rifle projectile, unlike a BB, isn't a fixed shape, so part of rifle bulket BC is the variable form. Heavier isn't always better, but the best long-range cartridges are usually heavier than ball ammo.
Great video- Have to agree the only reason to use sub .30 bb's is cost at this point. I have had some major residue issues with BLS heavy weight bbs (.32, .40) over the last year or two, which has been frustrating.
Same here 😢
have you tried washing your bls heavy weight bb´s? helped a lot with mine and regular barrel cleaning too
This is a really good breakdown, I experimented with .28s early 2010s before we started getting drop in flat style hop packings. The Japanese were showing stock Marui's reaching 60m with G hops and .28s.
I think .32 for UK 1.14J limits is ever so slightly too heavy, I'd need to run the time to target and energy fall off numbers specifically to see if there was much in it over a .3. Usually find that most sites you struggle to get sight lines or engagements beyond 40m.
But certainly gives food for thought on how to maximise effectiveness in the MG role.
it's crazy .32s has been my go to weight for the last 7 years. We shoulld 1.69 joules and without having any scientific data to back it up, it just felt like the most accurate at any given distance I shot at. Also the whole close up lightweight is faster is so marginal that it makes zero difference when compared to a person's actual reflexes.
Amazing that someone finally made this video. I noticed the same thing on the graphs years ago.
Almost every time I hear someone complaining about "no one is calling hits today"
"What BB weight are you using"
".25s"
The ive noticed with airsoft bb range is no matter what someone else will always have more than me, as such its best to carry a tag launcher to yeet them 400ft
I think where people stop using heavier bbs, is that aegs loose a little bit of joules when you use heavier bbs. For example I measured mine with a few different weights and got the following result:
- 0.28g 1.51 j
- 0.3g 1.51 j
- 0.32g 1.45 j
- 0.36g 1.42 j
- 0.4g 1.39 j
And when people see number go down they think its a bad thing.
Well, it is a bad thing, but .1J loss is nothing. My aeg loses even more, it goes 1.49 at .28 to .7 at .36. My mws on the other hand goes 1.1 at .28 and 1.4 at .36...
that is due to the cylinder/barrel volume ratio being to low for that bb weight, can be corrected
@@arilean it can be from increased back pressure from heavier bb increases the amount of air leakage from air leak spots. Also you need to add more hopup to float the heavier bb which causes more friction and reduces joules.
check all air seal points (piston o ring, air nozzle o ring, cylinder head o ring, nozzle to bucking mating) and r hop or flat hop are recommended for heavier bb
I’m getting 55 metres (not sure what that is in feet) out of my TM with .30g, great accuracy and range
I think there's a big part that we forget and that is joule creep, although this may not apply to the game of airsoft because it will always have to comply with the joule rules, simply changing bb weight still adds joules *meaning* that you in fact *can* continue to go up and up in weight as long as it can hop and you will definitely continue to benefit even at the "shorter" ranges.
This was a GREAT breakdown, and I hope it reaches a wider audience. I've been playing on and off for 9 years, nowadays I play indoor, SpeedQB or tournament format as its known mainly, and I use between 0.2 and .25 on occasion. Indoor there is no benefit to the time on target considering, yeah I am only shooting like 50-100ft at most and no wind. But this video definitely gave me a needed review and new thought process for when I do go outdoor.
i love science in shooting
Charts VS Bullshit talks at the field : as an engineer, a such video made my day !
Finally proper Airsoft lore !
Loves the video and was simple enough for my brain to understand
basic physics are now understood as "lore" 👍Wait till you find that physics work exaclty the same way in all other topics.
Excellent video!
I use .32's in both my AEG's and GBBP's exclusively. Best accuracy at mid range (up to 50 - 65 meters). If I need longer ranges, I can switch to my SSG10 shooting.46's.
This video is very very underrated! We need more views on this. It is an "Eye opening".
Fellow airsoft tech and Physics major. You hit ever point on the head my freind 🙌
Great video. I should probably share this with my friend who said that . 28-.30 where what you want for DMRs
Somebody give this guy a medal. Fantastic breakdown. My brain just got a wrinkle.
Lightest BB weight I’ve ever used is .28s and using .32s on my DMR. Recently I’ve started using the .32s for pretty much everything other than my LMG and pistols. LMG mainly because of cost. I’ll tend to go through approximately 2,000 rounds an hour with it. Will have to look at how costs compare now. Been a bit since I stocked up on BBs, might be worth switching to .32s there as well. Will definitely look into heavier BBs for my M14 though.
Regarding the note at 0:35 I knew the first line but you could've fooled me with the second. I guess it comes from my favorite gun, the WE Scar-H + ML goodies, I use it with 0.4 BLS and the BB flies for so long I guess by the end it almost hovers, and I also have an LPVO on the gun so I can see the BB flying for so freaking long. Still doesn't fly as far as my sniper friends' BBs.
I figured out .36s were my go to a while ago for my particular setup/playstyle. This may help me convince my cousin he doesnt need .43s in his 1.5J setup though. Thabks for the excellent breakdown.
My last time on the field I switched from .25 to .32 and holy crap it made such a huge difference. I made some shots that I am still shocked about. It shoots flatter and my range is noticeably better. Absolutely worth it. Thank you so much for this breakdown.
0.32g is pretty much what I run in everything that isn't a DMR above 1.7j.
(I'm in Sweden and our dmr class is 1.71-2.4J.)
There is not really many science videos on airsoft. This is refreshing
Incredible breakdown. I learned some stuff that I didn't know, even after 8 years of playing.
I can attest to running heavier bbs. I recently switched from .32 too .40 here’s my setup so you know what I’m working with
Vfc416 polarstar kythera Mapleleaf 290’mm 6.01 mm crazy jet Combat union HopUp Mapleleaf 70 degree MR HOP bucking Maple leaf omega nub I run field max fps on .32 1.62 Jules 325-320 fps and on .40bbs I try to run 1.62 Jules @ 295 fps mind you this is with a 25’ MED any thing below this I revert to my secondary pistol. That being said with .32 i can get 150-200’ kills but when I switch too .40 bbs these 200’ shots became extremely regular and I was shocked when I pushed as far out as 280’ and got back to back kills. Mind you I was not shooting flat but could aim slightly over the players head and get a chest shot. I completely agree that with a well tuned gun and .40 bbs you can cost effective shoot less bbs and get the same if not more hits at better ranges. I’ve noticed my shot count go down considerably when I switched from .32 too .40 bbs btw my home field is ballahack
Reminds me of when I stuck .43's in my 1 joule cm045 with an el-cheapo shs rubber, friend of mine saw the bb's and wondered what sort of monster sniper rifle I had brought with me.
That was the single most accurate replica i've ever used, thing shot like a frickin laser beam, at the cost of a dreary time to target.
I cant agree more, I'm a sniper and ppl stil think that the reason i can shoot 100 meters is that i have very strong spring, which I don't have, I use only M150. I shoot .48g or .45g BBs 120m/s and 3.3 Joules. BTW if you want to have high joules forget about light weight pistons and make them heavier by wraping a wire around. Even thought you will trade a little m/s you will gain joules and you have to use heavier BBs in AEG usually .36g plus your range will increase.
in mexico we have also noticed that the lighter bbs usually tend to be the ones that will puncture skin or draw blod, we think this might be realted to the higher FPS but its all theories, care to chime in?
Thats absolutely correct, velocity results in more penetration over weight.
The easiest but not entirely analogous example to explain this is in anti armor weapons, any modern effective AT platform will have a large external diameter projectile sure, but when it hits it uses a shaped charge to fire a 6 or 8MM wide jet of molten metal into the tank cabin. Where as on a modern tank even a 20mm is likely to bounce off
reason for this has to do with how energy is distributed, if you have the same total amount of energy, a lighter projectile moving faster gives a surface less time to "flex" in response, in the case of skin a 30g is going to be less likely to draw blood because the skin has more time to flex with the impact as opposed to the 20
Nice Video! Could you please include ft and meter? Its a bit of a hustle to convert each measurement
Another benefit to heavier BBs, though I personally haven't seen any data on the subject and my evidence is purely anecdotal, is that heavier BBs seem to have tighter groups, especially at longer ranges. Hop and barrel quality seems to have a greater effect though.
You convinced me to go from .25s to .28 on my 1.15 gun. On a m100 spring
Upon re watch, you convinced me to go to .30s, also im buying a m115 spring for closer to 1.4-1.55j and i would go to .32s but in my country price goes waaay too high waaay too fast.
I like madbull .46s in black because I can hit a coke can over them there mountains with both eyes closed (but actually because it's in an srs and they're a little harder for players to dodge)
This reminds me of a comment i read years ago from a CQB player, rarely had an engagement over 10m...they used .12s
Great video, bookmarked ! Audio engineer here, did you take into account the speed of sound, specificaly the target hitting to the microphone if the mic is next to the gun ? Will not matter for the end results but that tiny segment got me thinking.
Embarrassingly, we did not, and this error was pointed out to us by a friend shortly after upload. At 100ft this imposes a delay of .09s, which when subtracted from our measured time-to-target of 0.52s gets us significantly closer to the theoretical value.
Catgut the Legend!!
Interesting, thank you for the new knowledge about BBs Traversal
i see why my friend recommending .30g for AEGs since i played mostly outdoors with my 1.2js M4
Cool to see the Ballahack airsoft field in yalls video.
In Europe, we usually use heavier bb. For example I use my pistol at 0.8j with 0.32 and my gun with 0.4 at 1.6j
Something I can't find data for is 0.5 joule (the german limit for anything full auto/ joule output of most AEPs) I'm currently using 0.25g BBs.
Its a really good informative vid on the basics. Never heard dumber reasoning against hevier bb than the target can dodge it, 99% of the time the target dosnt even know he been targetet at all...
definitely switching to a heavier BB over .25s. Thank you sir!
I generally use .28s for outdoor games, I might start using it in general for indoor use as well if it means I don't have to mess with the hopups of my gun and easier logistics. .3s are not common in the UK
As far as I can tell from my guns, there isn't a huge discernible difference in terms of performance, and often around the UK easier to find cheaper than .32s though your mileage may vary.
Use what works but always consider heavier (up to a point) if going for outdoor, and lighter if you're not too concerned about range, especially in close quarters, or if you're performing a support role where volume of fire is more useful
Nice Work done Here!
I Run my 1,6J ICS with 0,36g
My HPA at 1,8J with 0,43g cuz of Bush Penetration and range
I totally agree I’ve been using .28 things I might have to make the move to .3 or .32 to how much more improvement I can get
I have ALL my guns from my cappa to my bolt actions installed with a 70° bucking and tuned for .32s up to .49s for my sniper rigs. Heavier BBs have much better accuracy and travel than lighter ones.
Very well explained video, in France we have "chef Pan-Pan" who also explains the usefulness of using heavy bbs.
This is by far the most badass airsoft channel. Well done!
I got to try 0.30 BB recently and oh god it was a joy to do. I basically made my K/D ratio better, even got to do 4 out on a 4v4 round
EE out here exsposing the secrets.
Most AEG can only properly handle .20g and .25g out of the box due to air volume and hop up
Well done man! Just what I needed. Cheers!!!
This concept of using heavy weight ammo and using silicone oil for Gas blow back pistols are the two most often given tips I give to new airsofters. Used to think that I needed to upgrade my hop as a new airsofter when the reality is I could get away with running stock hop up and just using heavier ammo.
Stock hop up units are often fine unless you want to go for an ultra consistent DMR build. But for most assault just plonking in a better rubber with a better nub allready gives you around 10 meters range extra over the stock hop up rubber when using the appropriate bbs.
Stop recommending silicone oil. Reasoning is covered in the GBB 101/102 videos. Basically youre just getting lubricant everywhere lubricant isnt meant to be, and nowhere its supposed to be. Just lube the gun with grease and run the gas dry.
I just stick to what the manual recommends me to on my Marui. I would like to try some heavy BB's on a shotgun - mind.
I was missing such videos with such to-the-point topics and specific numbers. Amazing!
tried to explain this to some friends, they still insist on using .28g in 1.5j replicas and only go up to .32g on firlds where 2j is allowed for rifles, where i already use .4g
I usually tune all my AEGs to shoot .3s (smgs at 1J or less, rifles at 1.5J, DMRs at 1.8) For sidearms I use .2-.25s because I need that fast travel at close range. The sniper rifles I have are tuned to 2.8 (field limit) and I usually use .36s-.4s with them. I definitely see the time to target decrease, but the consistency and range make it a good trade off.
After watching this video, I may have to retune my Rifles for even better performance.
Try to use .48 bbs in sniper, travel time is not much worst, but bb have much more flat trajectory and is more accurate.
Hello guys. What do you all think about the idea, that the airsoft could switch from smoothbores shooting roundballs, to the polygonal rifled barrels shooting cilindrycal roundnose pellets. Same materials of both, as they are now, same energy output to the target, but just ditching the hop up, and instead, adding the gyroscopic stabilisation of the pellets?
Given that 2/3 or even more of the replicans' ranges are due to hop up. It won't be useful. You might have greater accuracy but range to about 20 meters most (like with hop up off) .
And you might need much heavier ammo to be actually more precise. And then is the question to actually make the round spin. If done as in real firearms through friction (and no other method comes to mind) then you'd need much heavier spring to even get to normal muzzle velocities (loses due to the friction). And the spin of the round might still not be good enough to stabilize it.
The cost of shooting this RPK just went up alot lol
Finnaly sombody told that! Most airsofters thinks i am crazy shooting 0.3bbs from my hi-capa.
Recently went from .28s to .32s when i noticed how flat some people shot with their rifles and even a stock power MWS can put some built guns to shame because they use the wrong weight
Really nice video man, I totally agree with everything said in this video. Nice breakdown for new players, should make it easy for people to understand and make better choice of BB weights.
Airsolf guns should have a toggle to swap ammo type. One for farther hit and the other cheaper for spray and pray
This video is amazing. Wish I saw this 10 years ago
Cool video. I like ballistics whether it’s airsoft or bullets.
Been looking for scientific content like this for ages. Thanks a lot
That oddly looks exactly like the smp field I go to in the beginning
Would you go beyond a 36? You definitely want to take barrel to cylinder volume ratio into account because that will cause energy drop off. There are some things you can do to mitigate that like going with the tire board bear like I recommend a lambda one ak47 inner barrel because thats enough to run .45's. I actually took the time to do the math and the numbers I got were definately higher and matched tah of shorter barrels of their 6.03 counterparts. A 450mm is only 2.5 shorter than a 509mm (20 in). And even if you had a tracer on there it won't strike the bear unless you put an absurd amount of hop on qith super light ammo but i Don't know why you would use less than a 36 and a DMR.
I will be sharing this a lot, thank you for this!
Great video breakdown.
0.3g is my minimum using anything in Taiwan, usually pistols and SMG/PDWs where I tend to get through more ammunition.
For the VFC FAL, PSG-1 and anything else long barreled I use 0.48g because small magazine capacity and long boi barrels, and the desire to make every round count. 👌
Yeah. They are marginally slower, but you can hear the THWACK of them hitting tree trunks or plate carriers over the sound of your own awesomeness...😂
THWACK!!!!!!
So, this will be a bit of a strange position to take, but one of the reasons I've always shied away from using heavier BBs was that I was of the opinion that heavier BBs hurt more, and I've always been really against hurting other players if I can help it.
That being said, I'm going to experiment more with BB weights, because as much as not hitting any other player (because .2s don't have the range) definitely won't hurt them, it's also not as much fun for me.
It's a valid concern, heavier BBs bleeding less energy over distance means you'll hit someone harder, skin has to absorb more energy and that impact travels a bit deeper into tissue.
However, provided you're muzzle energy is within the site limits you've got to bear in mind we all signed a waiver where being hit point blank is a possibility. Soon as your BB leaves the barrel you're bleeding energy off.
Basically, if you're only ever in CQB sites, stick to lighter BBs, if you're typically hitting people at more than 20m, go heavy.
@@AidanMyne Thank you for the thoughtful advice. I mostly play outdoors in the UK, so FPS tends to be lower anyway. I might try heavier BBs and... I guess just see how it feels when I get hit, knowing if someone is using their own heavy bbs.
Thank you! Nice, simple, and easy to understand
This is a much-needed video, thank you and great job!
I still remember that time i ask about aerodynamic properties of the bb, and my teacher said that if you could make the bbs like miniatures golf balls, they will be much more stable. I still think it's an idea ti test too see if it works in airsoft
I think a few people have tried that at times. Not perfect dimples but I don't believe it helped. Been years since I heard of that idea and could be wrong though
@@Stryker200000 man ,that would be cool if some video exists.Thanks
@@JoseMr57 it was on two old forums if I remember correctly. Airsoft Core and Airsoft Retreat. One of those "back in my days" sort of things hehe
@@Stryker200000 thank you!
People at the - now defunct - Airsoft Mechanics forums tried out that and several non-spherical bbs (including custom chambers to fire said bbs). There was some potential to non-spherical, but getting those made with proper materials was the bottleneck to further testing. Golf ball dimples had a negative effect on the hop up performance (mainly consistency) and wasn't really worth it.
To make shure that nobody doges your bb use green/black bbs
My Standard for my 2J gun used to be 0.32g...will order heavier Stuff now :D
however, the country where i live has law that only 0.2g or lighter is legal.😢
Meanwhile my local field has 0.25 limit for whatever reason
Cries in gbbr which would benefit even more from heavier bbs
I've been using 4s in my 1.1j guns for about a year now
After doing a test in my TM MP7 GBB 32s Vs 4s I have never looked back since
I use them in my wolverine MTW 10" snipers hate me lol
Looks at local laws: 1.2 J max and indoor max weight of 0.25 well that was good info to bad I can't use it :|
What about grouping?
My primary and secondary replicas get the best grouping right at 0.35
Thank you for this, now i only have to wait for 3 bags (around 12000rnds) of 0.28's to run out.... then i can buy 0.32's
I just use .22lr
After a while your enemies might build up immunity so you should up to 5.56
It's still a lot cheaper than paintball if you get the heavier bbs
Some fields in Europe (indoor) limit at 0.25
Outdoor its less of an issue. In my rebuild VFC 416 I completely worked around the 0.32-0.33 as a benchmark. Not the FPS. No what bbs that thing can lift. And let me tell you... 40-60m range. With ease.
Sounds good. I would recommond an E&C or Specna Arms 416 clone, those are good too and cheaper. Also, the 0,25 g rule in indoor fields sounds reasonable. I don´t think that too many players will be sniping with their 1,2 joule airsoft guns in cqb. For outdoor heavier bbs are the key for consistency. Just hope you can use your 416 in a 1,5 joule threshhold, then you should be able to play everywhere.
i use .28 in my .9-1.2j aeg's cause theyre the best price to performance bb you can get. I might see if .33 does any better as i have some left from when i started using my DMR and see how that goes though
Hey. Love your videos. If you ever get the chance, it would delight my cold little heart if you could make a video about the Umarex S&W M29. I hear lots of inconsistencies with performance, shell compatibility, and more. Your desert eagle video is legendary, something similar for the Dirty Harry gun would be amazing. It seems like it would be a somewhat * viable revolver with a HopUp. Thanks. Either way, look forward to your next videos