Thank you for listening, you can find impartial explainers, answers and data on the UK tax system here: ifs.org.uk/taxlab Timecodes: 00:00 Raising Taxes 00:00:30 Introduction to the Episode 00:01:00 The Chancellor's Dilemma: Increasing Taxes 00:03:00 Tax Rises Already in Place 00:04:30 Frozen Personal Allowances and Fuel Duty 00:06:00 Challenges of Raising Taxes on Working People 00:08:00 Income Tax or National Insurance: The Big Decisions 00:09:30 Pensions Reform as a Solution 00:12:00 National Insurance on Pensions 00:13:00 Debating Radical Pension Reforms 00:15:20 Capital Gains Tax: Is it Worth Reforming? 00:19:00 Complexities of Changing Capital Gains Tax 00:22:00 How to Fix Capital Gains Tax 00:24:00 Loopholes in Inheritance Tax and Stamp Duty 00:27:00 Wealth Tax: A Flawed Solution? 00:30:00 One-Off Wealth Tax as an Option 00:32:00 Council Tax and Stamp Duty: Major Problems 00:36:00 Why UK Taxes are Lower than Other Countries 00:38:00 Final Thoughts on Raising Revenue 00:41:00 Conclusion and Final Remarks
You could say, that no human being would work as a nurse or teacher or refuge collector if they knew that one day they would have to choose between heating and eating?
Guys.. some feedback. All three speakers were genuinely excellent. Combining clarity, simplicity and excellent technical knowledge (for this amateur). Please can you get Helen Miller on the podcast more! And Paul to host more often as well.
"a government that tries to tax itself into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to lift yourself up with the handle" ~ Winston Churchill ~
@@lentilsoup460the UK government debt is circa 2.7 trillion pounds and the interest payments alone are 74 billion pounds a year, so how do you propose they tax us out of that kind of debt, or even service the debt, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts, I suppose we could start by ending all the stupid and pointless projects which we have going off all over the world
There is nothing wrong with tax, I just begrudge paying to a government that doesn't know how to spend it correctly. We pay out more in foreign aid than we collect in stamp duty. Imagine my joy at buying a house and giving money to the indian space programme, instead of keeping the money for improvements.
On average, 287 million a year goes to India in foreign aid. The government collected 19 billion in stamp duty last year. Though I think there is an argument that India shouldn't receive anything in foreign aid, but the way you write your argument is a bit dishonest.
@@phill6859 it's not dishonest at all. Foreign aid is higher than stamp duty collected. You are incorrect on you figures, stamp duty collected for the tax year 2023/24 was less than 12 billion, the foreign aid budget was over 15 billion for the same tax year.
So if we got rid of stamp duty, why wouldn’t that cost just get added onto the house price, we’re supply constrained. Should the large productive economies of the world not do something to assist development of the rest of the planet - by offering a small fraction of those economies production - do we really not have some responsibility for this?
These frequent tax code changes are disrupting my long-term investment strategies. Are there ways to structure my investments to be more resilient to potential tax code modifications?
I honestly think America needs a completely restructure of their political system. It is just not working. Trump and Biden being elected out of 300 million people to run the country is evidence for that too.
This is why the US should elect more progressive politicians, who know how to manage budgets and give us (yes, pur country's initials literally spell out that pronoun) much better tax credits in return for better public education and better public healthcare. but since these are nonexistent, my husband and I are being guided to finance our retirement and healthcare through a diversified investment portfolio
@@BernardFrederick-tk7un How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financial future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success?
How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financial future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success?
Yes unsustainable for private companies who all closed them down after Gordon Brown over taxed them. But affordability for Government not questioned as they pay them out of current year tax revenues and don't put them on Balance sheet as massive liability as Private Companies would have to.
@@chrisraine4678the local government pension is a fully funded and well run scheme. Labour are making noise about moving this centrally so you can see that will go. Remember that people do sacrifice wages for their pension and we have already had thousands of pounds cut from what we get paid in pensions by moving the date back that you can retire. If people come out of pensions now then the government will have to pay them more money in salaries. Messing with pensions gets people riled up and dosnt do much unless you back date it and that is something that really will have a major strike risk.
@@davideyres955 Yes but suspect they will tinker with the taxing of pension contributions by reducing the 45% and 40% allowance for higher rate tax payers but suspect they will get big push back from NHS as many doctors will be affected by this.
@@chrisraine4678if I were an incompetent bunch on MPs in power like Labour and I’d dug myself into taxation problems by giving away say 10+ million on overseas climate aid and extensive pay rises to the public sector and I needed a simple way to pay for it I’d tax employers pension contribution. People won’t see the loss directly but it will reduce your pension contribution total. Like I said evil but politically less damaging. Since the employers don’t effectively contribute to a public sector pension at source then they won’t have to pay it and you avoid hitting the public sector union paymasters.
Labour were politically foolish. The Tories set a trap by cutting taxes by £20bn and they fell for it. They should have refused to go along and reversed it. £20 bn a year will give them something to work with.
Either that or Labour spent £20 billion on public sector pay increases and £11.5 billion squandered on climate change projects outside the UK and realised they suddenly had a £22 billion blank hole so it must have been the Tories fault.
The doctors' strike needed settling as we were losing them overseas hospitals, and strikes were hurting the country. If Tories were in power, they would have had to settle. The strike had been going for over a year. The Tories did not fix prisons or pay for blood scandal. I wonder why the election was called in July?
All this government is doing is preparing the ground for Reform! They may quote a 10 year plan but they will not get past 5 years. 14 years of Tory corruption and 5 years of the same. Watch for the public to invite the extremists in! Yes it is not unreasonable to means test winter fuel payments. However the hypocrisy of MP’s claiming fuel allowances on a salary of £91k is breathtaking. And all we see from Starmer is whether we should stop smoking in d beer garden! Just more spin, lies, word salad and patronising speeches. The political system in this country is moving into a dangerous place. Labour have an opportunity but to date they are walking on thin ice! 💩💩🐽🐽💩💩
@@carolineobrien3692 assets too, then the thresholds and rates for income can be revised. Unutilised property in particular should have punitive taxation.
It's easy for the middle class to escape the tax, it's the superrich who can't because their assets ownership are in the UK and no matter where they go, they're taxed on it. Unfortunately we do not tax the superrich.
@@henrikalo3379 - That is completely the wrong way around. The richer you are the more mobile you are. You can helicopter in from Monaco / Isle of Man / Jersey, wherever you find to be most favourable to your individual circumstances. I am middle class, I can't afford a helicopter or a studio flat in Monaco.
@@ryank3321 individuals are mobile, but UK based assets which generate the wealth is not. Rich owner of Tesco's who owns lots of commercial land in in UK generating equity appreciation can't move those assets out of UK without selling them. That is where increase in the CGT for high value property/assets could help. Admittedly, tax advisors will find ways around this for those who have much to lose.
@ryank3321 You have to admire how @henrikalo can believe something so obviously dumb, and be so committed to it he feels he needs to tell everyone else. It's an amazing feature of nearly every UA-cam thread. They will confidently tell you that massive immigration doesn't push up house prices, they will confidently state things not understanding how per capita works, they will happily state that socialism has never been tried, or we need rent controls despite it never working anywhere. It is truly a marvellous place.
All this chat about "needing" to raise taxes, yet no discussion about why we "need" to raise taxes? You know it is possible for a government to not spend almost 50% of their nations GDP?
Exactly. Where is the money going? We are paying more but getting less. How can that be? It is quite clear that public sector pensions, severance agreements, expenses and remunerations are out of hand and inconsistent with similar benefits in the private sector and this money is taken directly from the public purse. Kier Starmer’s CPS tax protected pension is just one example. At the same time the Government is outsourcing the vast majority of services to private corporations that used to be managed by public departments. Not only are we not getting good value for money from state mediated monopolies, the profits taken from these services are not reinvested but go into the global financial system or support Kuwaiti wealth funds or French state energy companies. Our Government is literally bleeding state wealth from the economy with shady deals that make a few people rich and the rest of us significantly poorer.
What frustrates me about the notion of removing higher rate pension tax relief is that there is talk about the unsustainability of the state pension and it might be means tested at a future date. The Government should be doing all they can to encourage people to save more into their private pension. Removing the tax relief does the opposite.
Anyone starting work tomorrow, all their NI goes into a private fund for them only, problem of the state pension ponzi is solved gradually over the next 50 years.
I believe a good way to tax the rich is not to treat them as so inevitable. Incentivise better wealth distribution, pushing up the average earner who would then pay more tax and feel good about it.
Saw a video yesterday. Apparently the government try to keep 5000 hotel beds free on standby at all times. Imagine the costs. Instead of cutting ridiculous wastage, they will hammer workers. Wonderful.
I mean, it was the tories who reserved those hotels. And the reason they needed to do that was because they had essentially stopped processing asylum seekers years ago and so had created a massive backlog that needed to be housed in hotels. And so always needed empty hotels to fit the new arrivals into since no old spaces were being freed up. There’s every chance labour will undo that given that they’ve alll ready committed to process the backlog and deport the failed asylum seekers who’ve been filling up hotel rooms at the tax payers expense in some cases for up to a decade.
@WhichDoctor1 yeah, absolutely it was. Red and Blue are identical aside from their media personalities. Tories gave us slow, managed decline. Labour will just take the breaks off. At this point I genuinely believe they all get orders from above.
@mrmeldrew693the British empire ended in 1997, a decline is guaranteed. Many people are still of the mentality that we have a lot of power. We actually had quite a lot of soft power, despite no longer having the empire, before we left the EU. We are basically screwed thanks to that schoolboy error. Thanks leave voters
@phill6859 1997 was when Blair massively ramped up inward movement which lead to wage stagnation, a boom in housing costs and huge pressure on all services. The issues have only been exacerbated in the meantime and we are all far poorer now as a result by every measurable metric. The empire disappeared after the war. Stop making stuff up.
Regarding CGT - Under the scenario you spoke of, if someone who had made a profit on shares and believed the Gov would likely increase CGT in October, so they decide to sell now before the raise. My question is - The tax for your gain would be paid next April so how would you avoid it? Apologies but this was my understanding & may be dumb question, but Ive been PAYE all my life and only started buying shares earlier this year so had no dealings with HMRC on this issue yet.
I don’t think people understand how little a tax increase will help. Let ms say you raise even £20bn, lol that’s making an almost negligible difference
says who? it's 20bn additional, that's a huge, huge investment. the base spending is obviously large (800bn ish) and 20bn is a % small, but most of the 800 isn't discretionary. 20bn is literally a transformative investment for almost all of the big problem areas we have in this country. you don't know what you are talking about.
@@bigbobabc123 Its a huge risk though. Increased taxes can have unforeseen circumstances down the track, considering the UK's already increasing tax takes massively with stealth taxes, the government needs to be careful its not destroying growth (which it probably is tbh). Yes investment is needed but then again you don't really need to balance that on the books? Why increase the taxes when you can just borrow and invest properly anyway in productive areas.
My predictions and I have a few . Increase of sin taxes is cigarettes , alcohol etc. Some form of tax on NHS is £3-£10 cog payments for visits to MD . Property tax on all homes and buildings. What do you think?
If they charge NI on pension withdrawals what happens for people that decide to retire overseas and have to pay for health insurance? Wouldn't it be manifestly unfair to tax people for health insurance that they don't/can't use?
I really enjoyed that exploration of the happy, nerdy world. I thought the explanation of th impact of changes to Pension taxation was really interesting ... and I'd be suprised if we see anything really bold here. Isnt the political consideration really about raising the main rates of tax so close to a cost of living crisis? Maybe that will change over time. I liked Helen's suggested changes to Capital Gains and I have my fingers crossed that Rachel Reeves will act in such a manner. Fixing the glaring problems with council tax (maybe adding a "mansion tax") sounds sensible. Land tax instead of Stamp Duty and removing the loopholes for commercial property exchanges feel right. If government could tie a one-off wealth tax to a one-off reduction in government debt this could work (but I don't think it could be big enough to make a realistic dent).
@@VinceLammas All well and good if you have nothing, you don't lose. Then there is justifying the hit and what that will do to curb people who follow from working hard. I've worked hard all my life to get what I have, I would imagine many others have done so too, so where's the justification, how are you going to sell that to people? People have long memories, Labour will be absolutely finished like the Tories now are, if they do that. Then there's the scenario of people with assets but not much cash. Loads of wealth but all tied up in a multimillion pound home which is mortgaged but they're able to service the debt. They have enough income for that but struggle in other areas to get by.
@@JustTakeAMoment I assume all that is a response to my short "musing" on a wealth tax. I understand the political judgement might be that the pain is not worth the gain. Of course, others might disagree and think a carefully-crafted windfall tax is necessary.
@@VinceLammas Either way people have to wait and see, rather than keep second guessing and trying to steer the conversation one way rather than another. My point still stands however. People have long memories, their reign will be short lived and they're sailing dangerously close to the wind right now. The polls tell you that.
@@VinceLammas To aid you with your education; The term 'windfall tax' is used to describe a one-off tax levied on companies deemed to have made unreasonably high profits, normally due to unusually favourable market factors.
@@JustTakeAMoment Thank you for explaining, and so preceisely, exactly what I had in mind and intended. A one-off wealth tax could, indeed, be levied on some wealthy people on a "windfall" basis. Certain individuals have been able to amass vast fortunes not by deriving profit from their business acumen or smart investments. Instead, these people have been in the fortunate (usually inherited) position to take advantage of unusually favourable conditions in the political and economic environment, using their existing assets to take 'unreasonably large' profits.
my predictions: increase capital gains, change inheritance rules on pensions, require employers to pay some level of NI on pension contributions; reduce the level of tax free cash on pensions, add another level on council tax for very expensive properties + increase VAT on petrol and alcohol and cigs and add vat on private school fees
I agree with removing iht exemption on pensions. However outside of this I think they should leave them alone. People want certainty with their pension. Several of my colleagues don't bother paying in because they believe the government will move the goalposts come their retirement.
At the end of the day that 20 billion will be 40 billion after the ridiculous inflation busting public sector pay rises. So middle income workers, pensioners and business will be hammered. How will all of that create growth?
Andrew Bailey (chair of BoE) implied a lot of the ‘blackhole’ was caused by Civil pay rises. See the August MPC interview transcript on the BoE website
Really useful to listen to this. Sadly none of it chimes with the "painful" rhetoric coming from the PM and therefore comes across as naive rather than contributory. We live in hope though.
In fact many other European countries have higher tax rates than us even now but also have higher standards of living and life satisfaction rates. Of course if you just spent the tax money ooh corrupt contracts for friends and increasing Inefficiencies caused by austerity and Brexit then that’s not going to help. But it is proven by copious evidence that high tax and high spend policies can and often do work for the benefit of the general public
@@WhichDoctor1 What are you talking about. Europe's economies are stagnant. Tax and spend policies only help the government itself. They don't help the people.
Surely the logical thing to do is: all of the (sensible things) above? Reform council tax, close VAT loopholes, reform (rebuild) CGT, reform to inheritance tax, abolish SD (replace with LVT), a modest raise on average earners' income tax
She’s talking nonsense. Tax changes behaviour: you raise more tax in one area and you get less from another. The overall tax take in the UK is near a peak.
I'd say they are losing it. They introduced ir35 so I quit and now work half pay but get the same take home pay that I used to get and benefits. They have lost 40k a year in tax just from me. Also my kid is at private school. Saving the government more money, I told my kid that of labour introduce the school vat that os over as well. Let the government pay for my kid rather than me Saving them. Fk the government constantly robbing, now they are even coming after oap for crying out loud. How long till you get a tax bill at birth you have to pay off over your life 😡😡😡😡😡
Yes, much like Corporation Tax being reduced (pre-Sunak) year on year, encouraged more companies to thrive in the UK and employ more people, thereby increasing both Corp Tax take and income related taxes. I saw it as a short term mistake to increase it again. Tha said, it actually seems like an amazing trick that the Conservatives have pulled off to increase tax brought in, to the highest as a proportion of GDP in 70 years, while the tax paid by most individuals has been reduced. Also bringing the former closer to the levels of other European nations than it was. Using the term Tax "Burden" puts a negative spin on the achievement. Ironically, an achievement that traditional Labour parties would wholeheartedly support. I realise that career politicians see politics as a game to convince (through any spin possible) as many people as possible to vote for them, but it is very frustrating as it doesn't benefit the country. Hence, we have a Labour Chancellor coming in on a pack of lies, that she's now hamstrung by.
If a machine starts struggling to produce the same output, and then you increase the input only for the output to continue declining. Is it a problem with the quantity of input? Or is there something wrong with the machine?
Rather than raise taxes further, it would be nice to see the government do what everyone else has had to do; spend wisely and carefully and cut out anything non-essential. Continually fleecing businesses and the working public has finite options!
its a tricky one... someone did mention that £100bn could be raised if mega corps actually paid anything. so far this does not seem a very popular option with think tanks.
Why are people talking about taxes like it's not going to severely hurt the quality of life of most working class AND increasingly middle class people? Do these people not realise that tax increases ALWAYS lead to slower economic growth? That increased taxes encourages people to LEAVE the country which means your tax base then shrinks? Increased taxes means people spend LESS money and unlikely to start new businesses (why work if the government takes over half of what you earn)? It's not just about budget balancing, the government needs to actually think about the knock-off consequences of squeezing the public dry?
The point is the tax gets spent on services that IMPROVE the quality of life of working class people. Tax is not the biggest brake on growth currently. Low tax is a case of diminishing returns when the public sphere - services and infrastructure - starts to crumble.
The Tories put taxes up to their highest level since the 2nd World War, and also baked in future tax rises, AND left a 20Bn hole that they hid from the OBR. I think you should look at the Tories before you start dissing Labour.
Why do those in power always pick on those with the least not those with the most. This winter if a cold one I am goosed. Could only afford to put my heating on for one hour a day last year.
A lot of what you have said is means testing where does it stop do higher earners pay more for buses train etc. The one you’ve not mentioned is means testing OAPension ??
If I were the Chancellor who had to raise 20+ billion without increasing income tax, national insurance etc I would be pursuing the idea of a new tax. Almost everyone in the UK has a mobile phone and a levy charged via mobile phone contracts and card top ups could raise a considerable amount of new revenue.
One problem with raising council tax in line with property values is that some of us have huge mortgages on those properties. I’d love not to spend that much on a house but London is my home. Personally I’d be keen for more income tax (put each band up 5%…). My family would be significantly worse off but I’d find it fairer as most people were chipping in.
Over years incentives are added to the tax system which seem for good reason but over time they get used only as a means of reducing a companies overall tax. This has resulted in businesses main focus is on managing tax offsetting and not on manufacturing goods people want to buy. I worked for a large group who started in property development and brought companies to offset tax so they brought a shipping company because of the large offset in as the fleet aged. Plenty of other examples. The economy becomes miss directed
The problem with suddenly raising taxes on average earners is that the chronic housing shortage means that many have little spare cash after paying rent/mortgage. Housing costs seem to be much lower in countries with higher taxes. A typical recent graduate on average salary is already paying a marginal tax rate of 42%, rising to 52% if lucky enough to enter the higher tax bracket.
There's a real need to reform trust law, which currently serves as a major loophole for avoiding inheritance tax. For instance, the Duke of Westminster inherited £9 billion without paying any inheritance tax, highlighting the effectiveness of this method for the ultra-wealthy. Additionally, exemptions like the tax-free inheritance of farms and forests, which have become tools for the rich to evade inheritance taxes, should be reconsidered. These practices not only undermine tax fairness but also reduce the effectiveness of inheritance taxes as a tool for equity.
I think before any pension tax reform is made, an assessment needs to be made on the saving habits of people at the moment. Currently, there is simply not enough data on how well off people who are saving in modern schemes will be when they retire. Will the revenue generated by increasing tax on pensions actually offset how much money the public will be expected to pay for current people when they retire. If they are going to increase tax on pensions, I want a guarantee somehow that the state pension will exist for me.
Start Taxing the large Mulitinationals properly like Amazon, Starbucks ect ect. That they are still "allowed" to pay less Tax than a Worker here on the lowest Tax Bracket is insane.
The other issue with increasing tax on pensions is that it creates less incentive for people to pay into them at a time where the govt is likely to consider doing away with state pension and need private pensions to fill the gap
Doing away with the State Pension? You must be trolling for a Private Pension company. Look at the uproar as a result of stopping Winter Fuel Allowance.
@@justinclayton3022 point is that they did that didn’t they? Government can’t afford the state pension unless something changes, I say this as someone nowhere near retirement and paying into something I may never get
@@justinclayton3022 the governement are spending a fortune on defined benefit pensions for civil servants, their last pay rise for doctors increased the liabity by over £30billion!
Obviously stamp duty annoys you lot because it effects you. Pay capital gains on your property or properties. Farmers own millions of ££ of land but have an income far less than yours. Would you expect them to pay a 1% property tax?
Imagine all those people who voted for a Labour party that stood for election on a policy to tax education being surprised they'd tax other stuff too 😂😂😂
@@jamesholt4449 I don't want to strike, but they can't go against what they stated in their manifesto, we voted based on what they promised - if we were misled then we can't wait 5 years for another election. We have to wait and see what the budget says...
Well let’s see shall we oh and let’s see if we have to then define what they mean by “working people” I truly hope they don’t attack any one that’s worked hard, paid taxes made sacrifices to support their family and invested in their futures so they don’t have to rely on hand outs. Unfortunately it feels like they will.
Employers N.I. on public sector pensions would be interesting. Would cost an absolute fortune, including to NHS. Could they only impose it on private sector pension schemes?
Such a depressing episode. Cancel overseas ‘climate funding’, put Miliband in a mental hospital and get drilling. Suddenly we’re fine. Most people think you should scrap inheritance tax altogether, yet here you are adding pensions onto it…. Cut the size of the state!
Shocking that they were so quick to dismiss a trimming of higher rate relief. It would seem perfectly reasonable to trim 40% relief to 25% and 45% relief to 27.5% or some such. You can extract more than 100K in a single year and pay < 20% tax rate - assuming no other taxable income (and 25% tax free). This is very generous. I don't know the figures, but I'd guess that the average tax relief on the way in is 30+ and the average tax on the way out is in the very low 20s (or even below 20!).
If you did that, why would anyone currently paying higher rate tax save for a pension? If you are not gaining anything in tax relief then why bother at all locking money away that you cant touch? It would collapse the pensions system.
PAYE income is not the same as gains on capital where an investment risk has been taken and the funds invested have probably already been taxed + as was mentioned, inflationary gains are being taxed.
I think between now and end of Oct the fear is enough to make people realise any capital gains, in reality based on the study from HMRC as mentioned in the interview, they will be very unlikely to raise the upper CGT tax rate above 28%
From gov.uk statistics, 40% of 16-24 year olds are economically intactive in the UK. A person is economically intactive if they are, out of work, not actively looking for work, not waiting to start a job, not in full-time education, caring for their family or retired. That is a huge loss in terms of work force and possible tax revenue.
Many people live on a state pension. Lower than most of Europe. The removal of the winter fuel payment, will hurt many elderly people. Therefore, private pension holders,often generous, and enriched by public funds, should pay something too to raise revenue. This would be fair. Either tax or N.I.
Quite interesting. So the argument that taxing the wealthy results in them leaving the UK, and taking their wealth is not true? Not true because they can use legal loopholes to avoid paying tax.
Yes, I spend a lot of time in Germany and taxes are higher. However, life quality is richer. Medical care is good. 2 weeks wait for an operation, from first consultation. Sick pay and support good. Also, special tax bands that aid disabled and young people to keep more of their money. Direct taxation in the UK, though lower, is a false economy in the long term.
Privatisation in the UK without political policies and thought for wider communal impact has caused the devastation in the UK. This has allowed hollowing out of all public services, while shareholder profit supercedes service levels.
It's not scandalous that people use legal ways to avoid inheritance tax, it's scandalous that you have to pay it at all, there's quite a list of countries that don't charge it, are they all scandalous.
If captial gains rate is raised in Oct, will it take effect immediately (unlikley as 'complicated') or on 5th April 2025 ? Anyone have ant thoughts/insight?
In many ways Labour constraining itself on tax is a good thing. It means there will be much more focus on taxing assets and wealth and much less on taxing hard work/income.
I wonder what percentage of Properties (residential or business) are now owned by Foreign people or companies ? I recently visited a Georgian Market town, where I learnt that an entire row of Commercial Properties (7 or 8 of them) had been bought 3-4 years ago by a CHINESE Pension Fund. I hold the view that that should not even be allowed.....but if it is, how about a special Tax on Foreign Property Investors ? Just up Starmer's street I would have thought.
I Hope people can see how broken our government systems and taxation initiatives are. These people are absolutely smart enough to know that giving more money to those that cannot handle it is lunacy. Why is it that there doesn’t seem to be a similar motivation to create more value for money when we spend the tax money that’s taken??? The way the government spend our money is totally reckless.
Reeves week 1 paid herself £310 grand for pleasure, week 2 put in a mps expenses claim for £17 grand, so that's part of the so called black hole . Someone leaked that info
Can't find anything on IPSA or the media in general about that, can you state the source please? To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised, after she was complaining about her £90k salary while receiving £400k in donations.
@SteveFromManchester-di4lf I looked at the website which lists MPs' expenses. Nowhere does it say that Rachel Reeves paid herself £310 grand for pleasure.
Stop giving all new public workers golden handshake (guaranteed) final salary pensions, they don't work most of the private sector ones went bust years ago. Public sector workers used to be paid poorly but get a good pension, now they're paid well and get an amazing guaranteed pension. The future debt to the country for all the current public sector pensions running is 2.64 Trillion.
I’ve worked in the civil service for nearly 20 years and I have never heard of anyone still working service getting a final salary / golden handshake pension. All I’ve seen is people getting 1% pay rises locally or no pay increase
@@Eehonda_again well someone must be getting them to get to the 2.6 trillion future debt from them. Defined benefit pension are way more common in the public sector(lot's of the private sector ones went bust). Your pension is also guaranteed backed by the government(the public) whatever the financial situation, private sector pensions are subject to the ups and downs of the money market. My sister was just about to start using her pension when COVID wiped out 30% of its value. Just because you work in the public sector doesn't mean you shouldn't be subject to the same things the private sector is. When a private sector company is not doing well and is having to borrow money like it's going out of fashion to stay afloat(just like the gov), funnily enough it's not giving out pay rises it's generally getting rid of staff to lower its wage bill.
Why on earth do so many financial "experts' hold on to the idea that removing any remaining incentives for people to invest in private pensions or own any physical asset worth a damn is a good thing? I don't know if it was the intention, but you managed to make the end comment of sticking a couple of pence on income tax sound the most sensible option.
So if you got rid of tax relief on pension contributions, then people would have already paid tax on their pension contributions so how would justify taxing them again, when they go to collect it? That's the same as double billing and there's a law against that. Anyone found double billing would be committing an offence. Therefore, the government would commit an offence if they collect tax from private pensions twice, once at the point of adding contributions and again when they start receiving the pension. The dumbest argument in the world that, the absolute dumbest.
Which court would charge the the Government? Parliament is sovereign, dont you remember how the Tories wanted to pass a law declaring that Rwanda is a safe country when the supreme court ruled against the plan? Rich pensioner have worked hard to earn their money, oh wait, high earning pensioners currently scrounge of current pension payees with their end of salary pensions. Pensions have increased with inflation, wages have not.
The simplest way to reduce is expenditure is to scrap benefits altogether which would immediately force 10 million people to get off their lazy back side and get a job.
@@martynsmith8120pensioners on pension credit and disabled people on universal credit/ESA would not be able to "just get off their lazy asses" if you scrapped benefits. They would probably just die (the conservatives did try this for disabled people)
Putting National Insurance back up to 10p would be the least pain for most people. Although on paper the richest may pay the most in tax, they still have access to lucrative tax loopholes and schemes that normal people working PAYE do not, which means, relatively, they pay less of their income into tax than normal people. That's the problem that needs tackling, so that we're all taxed fairly. Capital gains on shares, stocks, dividends, etc,, lots of unearned wealth. Wealth that's come from just having money to gain wealth from. Not that this should be punitive, but it shouldn't be a method of paying less tax on your income/earnings.
@@stephfoxwell462044% is not far off 50% Maybe the UK government could get creative...reduce taxes incentivise investment and entrepreneurship for example jmo
Council tax is a banding system, the bands are used to work out the distribution of the budget costs. Fiddling with them is pointless unless you are going to as additional bands at the top and use that in different areas. But then it isn’t council tax but local double income tax.
Isn't it worth mentioning the possibility that the BoE could stop paying interest on QE reserves held by commercial banks. Estimates range the country could find between 35-55b per year? What are the downsides to doing this? They don't seem to be as clear as the perceived upside.
Downside is... that doesn't create money / value. Just moves it from savers (as banks will have to pay lower interest rates) to taxpayers. So robbing Peter to pay.... Peter. Not even Paul.
Why are we not looking at the real problem, Government is very top heavy, it's whitehall and their spending that needs to be cut. The cost of redundancy and unemployment for them would be overshadowed by the savings created.
She blithely says put up tax on everyone. Just like that, despite whether it is affordable or not to pensioners (paying tax for the first time due to personal allowance freezes also including them despite a lifetime of paying it) and those struggling to afford even the basics. It’s the expectation, and many would say duty, of a Labour government to bring huge disparities in wealth to a halt and focus on wealth distribution. A reminder that Thatcher slashed income tax for the very top earners by as much as 30%. A similar false premise that government expenditure is the same as a household peddled by Thatcher runs through Reeves’ veins. At the same time remind her of her vow to keep within Tory fiscal restraints in place already, which reveals her as - a Tory. .
@@anthonybrown4874 I'm thinking, inflation will boost wages & the tax take, given fiscal drag. Oil duty rises would also give renewables a boost. Good progress on renewables will bring down energy costs. Reform of the energy market to better reflect a higher renewables component would work to reduce inflation. If the gas based generation was replaced over time with grid scale battery storage, the demand will fall away steadily. So the tax increase could be short lived. Trend forecaster Tony Seba makes a case for this to happen surprisingly quickly.
I've an idea! How about Rob everyone of everything and leave them to starve? Oh... its already being implemented with own nothing and be happy..... somehow wef. Everyone's friendly villan minus the cat.
When you talk about taxing pension on the way in / way out of pension schemes you miss (I think) the point that the relief going in is at 40% whereas because income in work is generally higher than in retirement- where I would guess most people are not getting into the 40% bracket. That is why alternating the up front relief might generally be argued to be ‘fair’?
I think they might be playing devils advocate at times for channel engagement to be honest, such is the state of the world and its attention driven economy now that everybody has to essentially become TalkSport.
It was incredibly stupid of the Labour Party to rule out so many option on taxes. It was also politically incompetent to hit pensioners re winter fuel payments as a first measure pre budget. Rachel Reeves will always be remembered for this.
Stevie, spot on. Really dumb. They were scared of a repeat of 1992. Even now, they should swallow their pride and reverse the recent Tory tax cuts of £20bn. The Tories promised no new tax but did just that raising NI and Corporation Tax. As you say, incompetent politically.
Reeves did it pre budget because the qualifying week is September 16-22 and the budget is 30/10/24. It was a heads up for those that wouldn't be eligible. November - December payments cut off on 30/10/24 would not have been received well at all and would have been a scandal level controversy, along with backend government functions wasting time on a terminated scheme. Those born on 23/9/58 or after and don't live in England or Wales are not eligible in '24-'25. It was a tax free benefit where the benefit didn't equal the cost. Those are tough decisions but Reeves thought it necessary.
Yes I understand the timing issue but it was still politically inept. It was not in the manifesto and now Labour MPs will have to explain to folk on little more than £12k a year why they were picked on.
@@stevieguk8014you think people on 12k a year pay a lot of tax😂. You don’t pay any income tax on that. The people who are paying the most are the high middle income earners over 100k and you’re paying 60% tax on your earnings.
One fact that did shock me was when Keir Starmer stated he would move the 1,000 civil servants from working on the Rawanda Scheme to working on his new Border Security Command.....Yes 1,000. That is a lot of staff/ money/ pensions. Most Police Forces don't have 1, 000 officers on duty across their counties on any one day!.
In a country that has lots of different groups that the new gov. could target, why does it always seem to be pensioners, esp. those with small work pensions, who take thet hit. We have lost our winter fuel allowance already, within weeks of them in post. if they start deducting NI.it woll be worse. I paid NI on my wages, for 40 yrs, i.e. Income tax 20 % enployee pension 6% NI 4-8 % , so about 30 % total.of every monthly wage went to the government in taxes. I now pay basis income tax of 20 % on every penny above the first £ 12750 of my pension, just like working people. (Sta te pension is most of that, so I loose 20 % of almost all my work pension already to tax. And all the benefits that are only given to people getting pension credit, results in those who didnt bother to have a work pension being better off than those who have a small work pension ! Why not start the " hard choices" with richer folks or banks?
My mum and I were having this same discussion. My mum is in the same position as you and feels she has been punished for having a pension. Her sister who does not have one is entitled to do much. Just recently had her boiler replaced for free due to pension credit. It's just so unfair that it s very clear I will be facing the same with the the possibility of no state pension. Just not looking forward to this up coming budget.
Thank you for listening, you can find impartial explainers, answers and data on the UK tax system here: ifs.org.uk/taxlab
Timecodes:
00:00 Raising Taxes
00:00:30 Introduction to the Episode
00:01:00 The Chancellor's Dilemma: Increasing Taxes
00:03:00 Tax Rises Already in Place
00:04:30 Frozen Personal Allowances and Fuel Duty
00:06:00 Challenges of Raising Taxes on Working People
00:08:00 Income Tax or National Insurance: The Big Decisions
00:09:30 Pensions Reform as a Solution
00:12:00 National Insurance on Pensions
00:13:00 Debating Radical Pension Reforms
00:15:20 Capital Gains Tax: Is it Worth Reforming?
00:19:00 Complexities of Changing Capital Gains Tax
00:22:00 How to Fix Capital Gains Tax
00:24:00 Loopholes in Inheritance Tax and Stamp Duty
00:27:00 Wealth Tax: A Flawed Solution?
00:30:00 One-Off Wealth Tax as an Option
00:32:00 Council Tax and Stamp Duty: Major Problems
00:36:00 Why UK Taxes are Lower than Other Countries
00:38:00 Final Thoughts on Raising Revenue
00:41:00 Conclusion and Final Remarks
12:29 This is obviously ridiculous. Nobody would save for pensions if they did this.
You could say, that no human being would work as a nurse or teacher or refuge collector if they knew that one day they would have to choose between heating and eating?
Guys.. some feedback. All three speakers were genuinely excellent. Combining clarity, simplicity and excellent technical knowledge (for this amateur). Please can you get Helen Miller on the podcast more! And Paul to host more often as well.
Council tax is the worst tax I have to as a single person.
Me too, it's a massive chunk of my meagre budget
Thanks for the straightforward talk.
"a government that tries to tax itself into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to lift yourself up with the handle"
~ Winston Churchill ~
@@eightiesmusic1984 I think you're rather missing the point
Not really the same thing though, the government is trying to tax itself out of debt and austerity, not into prosperity.
@@lentilsoup460how to tax out of austerity?
@@lentilsoup460the UK government debt is circa 2.7 trillion pounds and the interest payments alone are 74 billion pounds a year, so how do you propose they tax us out of that kind of debt, or even service the debt, I'd be happy to hear your thoughts, I suppose we could start by ending all the stupid and pointless projects which we have going off all over the world
@@leehowson440Rejoining the EU would be an excellent start.
There is nothing wrong with tax, I just begrudge paying to a government that doesn't know how to spend it correctly. We pay out more in foreign aid than we collect in stamp duty. Imagine my joy at buying a house and giving money to the indian space programme, instead of keeping the money for improvements.
On average, 287 million a year goes to India in foreign aid. The government collected 19 billion in stamp duty last year. Though I think there is an argument that India shouldn't receive anything in foreign aid, but the way you write your argument is a bit dishonest.
@@phill6859 it's not dishonest at all. Foreign aid is higher than stamp duty collected. You are incorrect on you figures, stamp duty collected for the tax year 2023/24 was less than 12 billion, the foreign aid budget was over 15 billion for the same tax year.
Weirdly it makes me feel better about that stamp duty payment, assumed it was just going to Tory peers on ppe contracts.
So if we got rid of stamp duty, why wouldn’t that cost just get added onto the house price, we’re supply constrained. Should the large productive economies of the world not do something to assist development of the rest of the planet - by offering a small fraction of those economies production - do we really not have some responsibility for this?
@@edc1569 or pensioner winter fuel allowance
These frequent tax code changes are disrupting my long-term investment strategies. Are there ways to structure my investments to be more resilient to potential tax code modifications?
I honestly think America needs a completely restructure of their political system. It is just not working. Trump and Biden being elected out of 300 million people to run the country is evidence for that too.
This is why the US should elect more progressive politicians, who know how to manage budgets and give us (yes, pur country's initials literally spell out that pronoun) much better tax credits in return for better public education and better public healthcare. but since these are nonexistent, my husband and I are being guided to finance our retirement and healthcare through a diversified investment portfolio
@@BernardFrederick-tk7un How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financial future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success?
How can I participate in this? I sincerely aspire to establish a secure financial future and am eager to participate. Who is the driving force behind your success?
Annette Marie Holt is the licensed advisor I use. Just search the name. You’d find necessary details to work with to set up an appointment.
For the first 3/4 of this interesting discussion I was shouting out 'what about council tax!'. Thank you for addressing it.
What about civil service pensions? They must cost us billions. Why don't they switch to DC pensions?
2.6 Trillion yes TRILLLION but it's funny isn't it that we never hear these are unsustainable. Funny that eh .
Yes unsustainable for private companies who all closed them down after Gordon Brown over taxed them. But affordability for Government not questioned as they pay them out of current year tax revenues and don't put them on Balance sheet as massive liability as Private Companies would have to.
@@chrisraine4678the local government pension is a fully funded and well run scheme. Labour are making noise about moving this centrally so you can see that will go.
Remember that people do sacrifice wages for their pension and we have already had thousands of pounds cut from what we get paid in pensions by moving the date back that you can retire. If people come out of pensions now then the government will have to pay them more money in salaries.
Messing with pensions gets people riled up and dosnt do much unless you back date it and that is something that really will have a major strike risk.
@@davideyres955 Yes but suspect they will tinker with the taxing of pension contributions by reducing the 45% and 40% allowance for higher rate tax payers but suspect they will get big push back from NHS as many doctors will be affected by this.
@@chrisraine4678if I were an incompetent bunch on MPs in power like Labour and I’d dug myself into taxation problems by giving away say 10+ million on overseas climate aid and extensive pay rises to the public sector and I needed a simple way to pay for it I’d tax employers pension contribution. People won’t see the loss directly but it will reduce your pension contribution total. Like I said evil but politically less damaging.
Since the employers don’t effectively contribute to a public sector pension at source then they won’t have to pay it and you avoid hitting the public sector union paymasters.
Labour will join the Tory’s in the political abyss..
Labour were politically foolish. The Tories set a trap by cutting taxes by £20bn and they fell for it. They should have refused to go along and reversed it. £20 bn a year will give them something to work with.
Either that or Labour spent £20 billion on public sector pay increases and £11.5 billion squandered on climate change projects outside the UK and realised they suddenly had a £22 billion blank hole so it must have been the Tories fault.
The doctors' strike needed settling as we were losing them overseas hospitals, and strikes were hurting the country. If Tories were in power, they would have had to settle. The strike had been going for over a year. The Tories did not fix prisons or pay for blood scandal. I wonder why the election was called in July?
All this government is doing is preparing the ground for Reform! They may quote a 10 year plan but they will not get past 5 years. 14 years of Tory corruption and 5 years of the same. Watch for the public to invite the extremists in! Yes it is not unreasonable to means test winter fuel payments. However the hypocrisy of MP’s claiming fuel allowances on a salary of £91k is breathtaking. And all we see from Starmer is whether we should stop smoking in d beer garden! Just more spin, lies, word salad and patronising speeches.
The political system in this country is moving into a dangerous place. Labour have an opportunity but to date they are walking on thin ice! 💩💩🐽🐽💩💩
@@JustTakeAMoment Should the lowest-paid workers in the railway industry continue to have their wages cut every year then? Is that what you're saying?
What about taxing all UK income in the UK regardless of where the owner is registered?
It would break international tax agreements.
Tax assets not income.
@@carolineobrien3692 assets too, then the thresholds and rates for income can be revised. Unutilised property in particular should have punitive taxation.
I wish the government would be held to account for their broken promises
And their wars of making people lives around the world a living hell.
But that won't happen because they're a criminal racket.
No one can or will hold them to account other than the People.
@@YakovShanitechnically it’s the job of the opposition. But they’re beyond useless too.
by who? the elctorate should stop voting for these clowns
Not with this useless monarch we have today.
‘We want people to save for their own pensions ‘ … then they start attacking them
Push and pull politics. You will hear what you choose and they can’t be wrong. Been going on for a while…
Only one thing is certain in the UK taxes will be unfair for most. Just look at the history. I mean remember the Scottish window tax FFS.
Screw your taxes, I quit working in this economy so London can tax my middle finger.
It's easy for the middle class to escape the tax, it's the superrich who can't because their assets ownership are in the UK and no matter where they go, they're taxed on it.
Unfortunately we do not tax the superrich.
@@henrikalo3379 That makes literally no sense.
@@henrikalo3379 - That is completely the wrong way around. The richer you are the more mobile you are. You can helicopter in from Monaco / Isle of Man / Jersey, wherever you find to be most favourable to your individual circumstances. I am middle class, I can't afford a helicopter or a studio flat in Monaco.
@@ryank3321 individuals are mobile, but UK based assets which generate the wealth is not. Rich owner of Tesco's who owns lots of commercial land in in UK generating equity appreciation can't move those assets out of UK without selling them. That is where increase in the CGT for high value property/assets could help. Admittedly, tax advisors will find ways around this for those who have much to lose.
@ryank3321 You have to admire how @henrikalo can believe something so obviously dumb, and be so committed to it he feels he needs to tell everyone else. It's an amazing feature of nearly every UA-cam thread. They will confidently tell you that massive immigration doesn't push up house prices, they will confidently state things not understanding how per capita works, they will happily state that socialism has never been tried, or we need rent controls despite it never working anywhere. It is truly a marvellous place.
All this chat about "needing" to raise taxes, yet no discussion about why we "need" to raise taxes? You know it is possible for a government to not spend almost 50% of their nations GDP?
We need them as labour has a black hole of spending they want to do and give money to all thier rich union pals.
Reduce the number of MPs from 650 to 100. 100 MPs could make just as rubbish decisions as 650.
Lots of old boomers retiring and putting pressure on the system? Seems like some of them should be taxed more.
Exactly. Where is the money going? We are paying more but getting less. How can that be?
It is quite clear that public sector pensions, severance agreements, expenses and remunerations are out of hand and inconsistent with similar benefits in the private sector and this money is taken directly from the public purse. Kier Starmer’s CPS tax protected pension is just one example. At the same time the Government is outsourcing the vast majority of services to private corporations that used to be managed by public departments. Not only are we not getting good value for money from state mediated monopolies, the profits taken from these services are not reinvested but go into the global financial system or support Kuwaiti wealth funds or French state energy companies. Our Government is literally bleeding state wealth from the economy with shady deals that make a few people rich and the rest of us significantly poorer.
They are "needed" for Labour to do what their supporters want them to do
What frustrates me about the notion of removing higher rate pension tax relief is that there is talk about the unsustainability of the state pension and it might be means tested at a future date. The Government should be doing all they can to encourage people to save more into their private pension. Removing the tax relief does the opposite.
Anyone starting work tomorrow, all their NI goes into a private fund for them only, problem of the state pension ponzi is solved gradually over the next 50 years.
Basically we are screwing over young people yet again (i.e. the pensioners of 30 years time).
I believe a good way to tax the rich is not to treat them as so inevitable. Incentivise better wealth distribution, pushing up the average earner who would then pay more tax and feel good about it.
Saw a video yesterday.
Apparently the government try to keep 5000 hotel beds free on standby at all times.
Imagine the costs.
Instead of cutting ridiculous wastage, they will hammer workers. Wonderful.
I mean, it was the tories who reserved those hotels. And the reason they needed to do that was because they had essentially stopped processing asylum seekers years ago and so had created a massive backlog that needed to be housed in hotels. And so always needed empty hotels to fit the new arrivals into since no old spaces were being freed up. There’s every chance labour will undo that given that they’ve alll ready committed to process the backlog and deport the failed asylum seekers who’ve been filling up hotel rooms at the tax payers expense in some cases for up to a decade.
@WhichDoctor1 yeah, absolutely it was. Red and Blue are identical aside from their media personalities.
Tories gave us slow, managed decline. Labour will just take the breaks off.
At this point I genuinely believe they all get orders from above.
Or due to increased demand
@mrmeldrew693the British empire ended in 1997, a decline is guaranteed. Many people are still of the mentality that we have a lot of power. We actually had quite a lot of soft power, despite no longer having the empire, before we left the EU. We are basically screwed thanks to that schoolboy error. Thanks leave voters
@phill6859 1997 was when Blair massively ramped up inward movement which lead to wage stagnation, a boom in housing costs and huge pressure on all services.
The issues have only been exacerbated in the meantime and we are all far poorer now as a result by every measurable metric.
The empire disappeared after the war.
Stop making stuff up.
What I would like to see is a restraint on spending by MPs and Westminster overall. If we have to do our bit then they must do better.
Regarding CGT - Under the scenario you spoke of, if someone who had made a profit on shares and believed the Gov would likely increase CGT in October, so they decide to sell now before the raise. My question is - The tax for your gain would be paid next April so how would you avoid it?
Apologies but this was my understanding & may be dumb question, but Ive been PAYE all my life and only started buying shares earlier this year so had no dealings with HMRC on this issue yet.
I don’t think people understand how little a tax increase will help.
Let ms say you raise even £20bn, lol that’s making an almost negligible difference
Especially if they give it away to more migrant hotel contracts and help fund another war elsewhere.
says who? it's 20bn additional, that's a huge, huge investment. the base spending is obviously large (800bn ish) and 20bn is a % small, but most of the 800 isn't discretionary.
20bn is literally a transformative investment for almost all of the big problem areas we have in this country. you don't know what you are talking about.
@@bigbobabc123 Its a huge risk though. Increased taxes can have unforeseen circumstances down the track, considering the UK's already increasing tax takes massively with stealth taxes, the government needs to be careful its not destroying growth (which it probably is tbh). Yes investment is needed but then again you don't really need to balance that on the books? Why increase the taxes when you can just borrow and invest properly anyway in productive areas.
My predictions and I have a few . Increase of sin taxes is cigarettes , alcohol etc. Some form of tax on NHS is £3-£10 cog payments for visits to MD . Property tax on all homes and buildings. What do you think?
If they charge NI on pension withdrawals what happens for people that decide to retire overseas and have to pay for health insurance? Wouldn't it be manifestly unfair to tax people for health insurance that they don't/can't use?
There's usually a reciprocating agreement between countries that involves money or tax breaks.
Your mistake is including the words tax and fair in the same sentence.
Their problem for moving abroad.
I really enjoyed that exploration of the happy, nerdy world. I thought the explanation of th impact of changes to Pension taxation was really interesting ... and I'd be suprised if we see anything really bold here.
Isnt the political consideration really about raising the main rates of tax so close to a cost of living crisis? Maybe that will change over time.
I liked Helen's suggested changes to Capital Gains and I have my fingers crossed that Rachel Reeves will act in such a manner. Fixing the glaring problems with council tax (maybe adding a "mansion tax") sounds sensible. Land tax instead of Stamp Duty and removing the loopholes for commercial property exchanges feel right.
If government could tie a one-off wealth tax to a one-off reduction in government debt this could work (but I don't think it could be big enough to make a realistic dent).
@@VinceLammas All well and good if you have nothing, you don't lose. Then there is justifying the hit and what that will do to curb people who follow from working hard.
I've worked hard all my life to get what I have, I would imagine many others have done so too, so where's the justification, how are you going to sell that to people?
People have long memories, Labour will be absolutely finished like the Tories now are, if they do that.
Then there's the scenario of people with assets but not much cash. Loads of wealth but all tied up in a multimillion pound home which is mortgaged but they're able to service the debt. They have enough income for that but struggle in other areas to get by.
@@JustTakeAMoment I assume all that is a response to my short "musing" on a wealth tax.
I understand the political judgement might be that the pain is not worth the gain. Of course, others might disagree and think a carefully-crafted windfall tax is necessary.
@@VinceLammas Either way people have to wait and see, rather than keep second guessing and trying to steer the conversation one way rather than another. My point still stands however. People have long memories, their reign will be short lived and they're sailing dangerously close to the wind right now. The polls tell you that.
@@VinceLammas To aid you with your education;
The term 'windfall tax' is used to describe a one-off tax levied on companies deemed to have made unreasonably high profits, normally due to unusually favourable market factors.
@@JustTakeAMoment Thank you for explaining, and so preceisely, exactly what I had in mind and intended. A one-off wealth tax could, indeed, be levied on some wealthy people on a "windfall" basis.
Certain individuals have been able to amass vast fortunes not by deriving profit from their business acumen or smart investments.
Instead, these people have been in the fortunate (usually inherited) position to take advantage of unusually favourable conditions in the political and economic environment, using their existing assets to take 'unreasonably large' profits.
How much per year could be saved from stopping illegal migration? not just putting people in hotels but the cost to the nhs?
@hawkslayers1 About £6.4bn according to the government. But no way of stopping the boats without a returns agreement or Rwanda style deal.
@@SGIQ7 There's a very easy way to stop boats, but no political party apart from *Reform* have the balls to do it.
Billions
Cancel Brexit. Pre Brexit we had 30 ppl crossing per day, post brexit 800+.
@@glostergloster6945 Brexit is not the cause of illegal immigration. The failure to implement Brexit is the cause.
my predictions: increase capital gains, change inheritance rules on pensions, require employers to pay some level of NI on pension contributions; reduce the level of tax free cash on pensions, add another level on council tax for very expensive properties + increase VAT on petrol and alcohol and cigs and add vat on private school fees
I agree with removing iht exemption on pensions. However outside of this I think they should leave them alone. People want certainty with their pension. Several of my colleagues don't bother paying in because they believe the government will move the goalposts come their retirement.
100% correct who on earth would invest in a pension that the Government changes every 5 minutes.
Same, why lock money up that can be robbed in the future. I'd rather they Rob me now when I needed it.
@@stuartregan1627they can't change it every 5 minutes.
Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore with this guy
At the end of the day that 20 billion will be 40 billion after the ridiculous inflation busting public sector pay rises. So middle income workers, pensioners and business will be hammered. How will all of that create growth?
@@tzrgazza get a job a tescos it pays more
It won’t. The country can no longer sustain state mediated growth initiatives.
@@Robtaylor1975 Great idea even longer waiting times
Andrew Bailey (chair of BoE) implied a lot of the ‘blackhole’ was caused by Civil pay rises. See the August MPC interview transcript on the BoE website
It wont / isn't the liebor economy is flatlining now not likely to improve
Really useful to listen to this. Sadly none of it chimes with the "painful" rhetoric coming from the PM and therefore comes across as naive rather than contributory. We live in hope though.
Tax us into growth, it may just work this time although it has never worked before.
In fact many other European countries have higher tax rates than us even now but also have higher standards of living and life satisfaction rates. Of course if you just spent the tax money ooh corrupt contracts for friends and increasing Inefficiencies caused by austerity and Brexit then that’s not going to help. But it is proven by copious evidence that high tax and high spend policies can and often do work for the benefit of the general public
odd how we keep ignoring ireland where the corporation tax is LOW so lots of companies based there and the irish get MORE tax money
@@WhichDoctor1 What are you talking about. Europe's economies are stagnant. Tax and spend policies only help the government itself. They don't help the people.
@@crown9413Try looking at Scandinavia
@@snakeplissken5480Ireland is in the EU, there are more advantages to be in the EU than the UK thanks to Brexit.
Surely the logical thing to do is: all of the (sensible things) above? Reform council tax, close VAT loopholes, reform (rebuild) CGT, reform to inheritance tax, abolish SD (replace with LVT), a modest raise on average earners' income tax
She’s talking nonsense. Tax changes behaviour: you raise more tax in one area and you get less from another. The overall tax take in the UK is near a peak.
Source?
I'd say they are losing it. They introduced ir35 so I quit and now work half pay but get the same take home pay that I used to get and benefits. They have lost 40k a year in tax just from me. Also my kid is at private school. Saving the government more money, I told my kid that of labour introduce the school vat that os over as well. Let the government pay for my kid rather than me Saving them. Fk the government constantly robbing, now they are even coming after oap for crying out loud. How long till you get a tax bill at birth you have to pay off over your life 😡😡😡😡😡
Getting on for 50% of GDP🙄
They're all talking nonsense. Utterly devoid of any ideas of how to grow the economy to increase the size of the pie.
Yes, much like Corporation Tax being reduced (pre-Sunak) year on year, encouraged more companies to thrive in the UK and employ more people, thereby increasing both Corp Tax take and income related taxes. I saw it as a short term mistake to increase it again.
Tha said, it actually seems like an amazing trick that the Conservatives have pulled off to increase tax brought in, to the highest as a proportion of GDP in 70 years, while the tax paid by most individuals has been reduced. Also bringing the former closer to the levels of other European nations than it was. Using the term Tax "Burden" puts a negative spin on the achievement. Ironically, an achievement that traditional Labour parties would wholeheartedly support. I realise that career politicians see politics as a game to convince (through any spin possible) as many people as possible to vote for them, but it is very frustrating as it doesn't benefit the country. Hence, we have a Labour Chancellor coming in on a pack of lies, that she's now hamstrung by.
If a machine starts struggling to produce the same output, and then you increase the input only for the output to continue declining. Is it a problem with the quantity of input? Or is there something wrong with the machine?
Rather than raise taxes further, it would be nice to see the government do what everyone else has had to do; spend wisely and carefully and cut out anything non-essential. Continually fleecing businesses and the working public has finite options!
its a tricky one... someone did mention that £100bn could be raised if mega corps actually paid anything. so far this does not seem a very popular option with think tanks.
Why are people talking about taxes like it's not going to severely hurt the quality of life of most working class AND increasingly middle class people? Do these people not realise that tax increases ALWAYS lead to slower economic growth? That increased taxes encourages people to LEAVE the country which means your tax base then shrinks? Increased taxes means people spend LESS money and unlikely to start new businesses (why work if the government takes over half of what you earn)? It's not just about budget balancing, the government needs to actually think about the knock-off consequences of squeezing the public dry?
The point is the tax gets spent on services that IMPROVE the quality of life of working class people. Tax is not the biggest brake on growth currently. Low tax is a case of diminishing returns when the public sphere - services and infrastructure - starts to crumble.
How can i avoid NI on money added to my sipp, do i need to incorporate or something?
The long and short of it is, we're going to get shafted. Same old Labour, tax and spaff. Here comes the taxes and the spaff is on the way.
The Tories put taxes up to their highest level since the 2nd World War, and also baked in future tax rises, AND left a 20Bn hole that they hid from the OBR. I think you should look at the Tories before you start dissing Labour.
Why do those in power always pick on those with the least not those with the most. This winter if a cold one I am goosed. Could only afford to put my heating on for one hour a day last year.
Those pensioners with the least will still get Winter Fuel Allowance.
A lot of what you have said is means testing where does it stop do higher earners pay more for buses train etc. The one you’ve not mentioned is means testing OAPension ??
If I were the Chancellor who had to raise 20+ billion without increasing income tax, national insurance etc I would be pursuing the idea of a new tax. Almost everyone in the UK has a mobile phone and a levy charged via mobile phone contracts and card top ups could raise a considerable amount of new revenue.
We need to make these people actually accountable on how the money is spent. They waste money left right and centre...
One problem with raising council tax in line with property values is that some of us have huge mortgages on those properties. I’d love not to spend that much on a house but London is my home.
Personally I’d be keen for more income tax (put each band up 5%…). My family would be significantly worse off but I’d find it fairer as most people were chipping in.
Im not sure but i do think we are also taxed indirectly via higher property prices.
Cost of living in Uk is much higher than those countries mentioned as having higher taxes.
Why not address the issue of why politicians are unable to stop the civil service from spend spend spending our money
The civil service only spend what budget the government allocate.
Over years incentives are added to the tax system which seem for good reason but over time they get used only as a means of reducing a companies overall tax. This has resulted in businesses main focus is on managing tax offsetting and not on manufacturing goods people want to buy. I worked for a large group who started in property development and brought companies to offset tax so they brought a shipping company because of the large offset in as the fleet aged. Plenty of other examples. The economy becomes miss directed
I pay £200,000 per year in tax and I’m already thinking about leaving the uk
Same, I used to pay 150k at my peak. Now I pay just 15k cos I took a low skilled job. Not worth the hassle staying here working to be robbed.
Like me paying a bit more won’t hurt as much as taking more from someone on £15000 but they get enough from us already.
What the hell do you do for a living?
@@stuartmc18 as little as f…ing possible
Traitors
Do you know how much the pension heating allowance cost the government a year ?
The problem with suddenly raising taxes on average earners is that the chronic housing shortage means that many have little spare cash after paying rent/mortgage. Housing costs seem to be much lower in countries with higher taxes. A typical recent graduate on average salary is already paying a marginal tax rate of 42%, rising to 52% if lucky enough to enter the higher tax bracket.
"Housing costs seem to be much lower in countries with higher taxes. "
- Provide evidence for this.
There's a real need to reform trust law, which currently serves as a major loophole for avoiding inheritance tax. For instance, the Duke of Westminster inherited £9 billion without paying any inheritance tax, highlighting the effectiveness of this method for the ultra-wealthy. Additionally, exemptions like the tax-free inheritance of farms and forests, which have become tools for the rich to evade inheritance taxes, should be reconsidered. These practices not only undermine tax fairness but also reduce the effectiveness of inheritance taxes as a tool for equity.
I think before any pension tax reform is made, an assessment needs to be made on the saving habits of people at the moment.
Currently, there is simply not enough data on how well off people who are saving in modern schemes will be when they retire. Will the revenue generated by increasing tax on pensions actually offset how much money the public will be expected to pay for current people when they retire.
If they are going to increase tax on pensions, I want a guarantee somehow that the state pension will exist for me.
Start Taxing the large Mulitinationals properly like Amazon, Starbucks ect ect.
That they are still "allowed" to pay less Tax than a Worker here on the lowest Tax Bracket is insane.
I never hear anyone talking about cost cutting in public sector.
Could you discuss the reasons why considerarion of long term debt like a specific emergency bond sale wouldn't be considered?
The other issue with increasing tax on pensions is that it creates less incentive for people to pay into them at a time where the govt is likely to consider doing away with state pension and need private pensions to fill the gap
Doing away with the State Pension? You must be trolling for a Private Pension company. Look at the uproar as a result of stopping Winter Fuel Allowance.
@@justinclayton3022 point is that they did that didn’t they? Government can’t afford the state pension unless something changes, I say this as someone nowhere near retirement and paying into something I may never get
@@justinclayton3022 the governement are spending a fortune on defined benefit pensions for civil servants, their last pay rise for doctors increased the liabity by over £30billion!
Obviously stamp duty annoys you lot because it effects you. Pay capital gains on your property or properties. Farmers own millions of ££ of land but have an income far less than yours. Would you expect them to pay a 1% property tax?
Imagine all those people who voted for a Labour party that stood for election on a policy to tax education being surprised they'd tax other stuff too 😂😂😂
I would happly vote labour again. Everyone knew taxs are going up and labour made clear wont affect the "working people"
@@jamesholt4449
And if the tax rises do end up affecting 'normal working people' then we call a general strike...
@warfish0r no, cause that just stupidty. What's changed why didn't you want a strike under the conservatives
@@jamesholt4449
I don't want to strike, but they can't go against what they stated in their manifesto, we voted based on what they promised - if we were misled then we can't wait 5 years for another election. We have to wait and see what the budget says...
Well let’s see shall we oh and let’s see if we have to then define what they mean by “working people” I truly hope they don’t attack any one that’s worked hard, paid taxes made sacrifices to support their family and invested in their futures so they don’t have to rely on hand outs. Unfortunately it feels like they will.
Employers N.I. on public sector pensions would be interesting. Would cost an absolute fortune, including to NHS. Could they only impose it on private sector pension schemes?
Such a depressing episode. Cancel overseas ‘climate funding’, put Miliband in a mental hospital and get drilling. Suddenly we’re fine.
Most people think you should scrap inheritance tax altogether, yet here you are adding pensions onto it….
Cut the size of the state!
This is the way
Unfortunately because of Brexit we need a larger state the manage everything
Shocking that they were so quick to dismiss a trimming of higher rate relief. It would seem perfectly reasonable to trim 40% relief to 25% and 45% relief to 27.5% or some such. You can extract more than 100K in a single year and pay < 20% tax rate - assuming no other taxable income (and 25% tax free). This is very generous. I don't know the figures, but I'd guess that the average tax relief on the way in is 30+ and the average tax on the way out is in the very low 20s (or even below 20!).
If you did that, why would anyone currently paying higher rate tax save for a pension? If you are not gaining anything in tax relief then why bother at all locking money away that you cant touch? It would collapse the pensions system.
PAYE income is not the same as gains on capital where an investment risk has been taken and the funds invested have probably already been taxed + as was mentioned, inflationary gains are being taxed.
I think between now and end of Oct the fear is enough to make people realise any capital gains, in reality based on the study from HMRC as mentioned in the interview, they will be very unlikely to raise the upper CGT tax rate above 28%
From gov.uk statistics, 40% of 16-24 year olds are economically intactive in the UK. A person is economically intactive if they are, out of work, not actively looking for work, not waiting to start a job, not in full-time education, caring for their family or retired. That is a huge loss in terms of work force and possible tax revenue.
I thought 16-18 year olds had to be 'doing something'.
Many people live on a state pension. Lower than most of Europe. The removal of the winter fuel payment, will hurt many elderly people.
Therefore, private pension holders,often generous, and enriched by public funds, should pay something too to raise revenue. This would be fair. Either tax or N.I.
Windfall taxes could balance the books in one swoop. Stop giving massive tax breaks to these companies.
Quite interesting. So the argument that taxing the wealthy results in them leaving the UK, and taking their wealth is not true? Not true because they can use legal loopholes to avoid paying tax.
Rises in council tax payments could help local communities mend some local service provision.
Yes, I spend a lot of time in Germany and taxes are higher. However, life quality is richer. Medical care is good. 2 weeks wait for an operation, from first consultation. Sick pay and support good. Also, special tax bands that aid disabled and young people to keep more of their money.
Direct taxation in the UK, though lower, is a false economy in the long term.
Privatisation in the UK without political policies and thought for wider communal impact has caused the devastation in the UK. This has allowed hollowing out of all public services, while shareholder profit supercedes service levels.
It's not scandalous that people use legal ways to avoid inheritance tax, it's scandalous that you have to pay it at all, there's quite a list of countries that don't charge it, are they all scandalous.
IHT should be near 100%, maybe a small 50k allowance. Dead people don't need it, it's nothing but a way to keep the wealthy wealthy and the poor poor.
If captial gains rate is raised in Oct, will it take effect immediately (unlikley as 'complicated') or on 5th April 2025 ? Anyone have ant thoughts/insight?
Every time the woman speaks I think I’m on 1.5 x speed 😅
Yes isn’t it terrible.
In many ways Labour constraining itself on tax is a good thing. It means there will be much more focus on taxing assets and wealth and much less on taxing hard work/income.
I wonder what percentage of Properties (residential or business) are now owned by Foreign people or companies ? I recently visited a Georgian Market town, where I learnt that an entire row of Commercial Properties (7 or 8 of them) had been bought 3-4 years ago by a CHINESE Pension Fund. I hold the view that that should not even be allowed.....but if it is, how about a special Tax on Foreign Property Investors ? Just up Starmer's street I would have thought.
I Hope people can see how broken our government systems and taxation initiatives are. These people are absolutely smart enough to know that giving more money to those that cannot handle it is lunacy. Why is it that there doesn’t seem to be a similar motivation to create more value for money when we spend the tax money that’s taken??? The way the government spend our money is totally reckless.
Reeves week 1 paid herself £310 grand for pleasure, week 2 put in a mps expenses claim for £17 grand, so that's part of the so called black hole . Someone leaked that info
The 20 billion black hole?
Citation needed
Can't find anything on IPSA or the media in general about that, can you state the source please? To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised, after she was complaining about her £90k salary while receiving £400k in donations.
OMG!
@SteveFromManchester-di4lf I looked at the website which lists MPs' expenses. Nowhere does it say that Rachel Reeves paid herself £310 grand for pleasure.
The thing is with pensions ,the pensioners tend to spend that money anyway, and that gets taxed through vats, etc.....
Stop giving all new public workers golden handshake (guaranteed) final salary pensions, they don't work most of the private sector ones went bust years ago. Public sector workers used to be paid poorly but get a good pension, now they're paid well and get an amazing guaranteed pension. The future debt to the country for all the current public sector pensions running is 2.64 Trillion.
I’ve worked in the civil service for nearly 20 years and I have never heard of anyone still working service getting a final salary / golden handshake pension. All I’ve seen is people getting 1% pay rises locally or no pay increase
@@Eehonda_again well someone must be getting them to get to the 2.6 trillion future debt from them. Defined benefit pension are way more common in the public sector(lot's of the private sector ones went bust). Your pension is also guaranteed backed by the government(the public) whatever the financial situation, private sector pensions are subject to the ups and downs of the money market. My sister was just about to start using her pension when COVID wiped out 30% of its value. Just because you work in the public sector doesn't mean you shouldn't be subject to the same things the private sector is. When a private sector company is not doing well and is having to borrow money like it's going out of fashion to stay afloat(just like the gov), funnily enough it's not giving out pay rises it's generally getting rid of staff to lower its wage bill.
How about normalising all income into one tax structure?
Why on earth do so many financial "experts' hold on to the idea that removing any remaining incentives for people to invest in private pensions or own any physical asset worth a damn is a good thing? I don't know if it was the intention, but you managed to make the end comment of sticking a couple of pence on income tax sound the most sensible option.
Why don’t they go after tax avoidance practices in oversea shell company property ownership and inheritance tax for over £5 mil?
So if you got rid of tax relief on pension contributions, then people would have already paid tax on their pension contributions so how would justify taxing them again, when they go to collect it?
That's the same as double billing and there's a law against that. Anyone found double billing would be committing an offence. Therefore, the government would commit an offence if they collect tax from private pensions twice, once at the point of adding contributions and again when they start receiving the pension.
The dumbest argument in the world that, the absolute dumbest.
Which court would charge the the Government?
Parliament is sovereign, dont you remember how the Tories wanted to pass a law declaring that Rwanda is a safe country when the supreme court ruled against the plan?
Rich pensioner have worked hard to earn their money, oh wait, high earning pensioners currently scrounge of current pension payees with their end of salary pensions. Pensions have increased with inflation, wages have not.
#Labour
The simplest way to reduce is expenditure is to scrap benefits altogether which would immediately force 10 million people to get off their lazy back side and get a job.
@@martynsmith8120pensioners on pension credit and disabled people on universal credit/ESA would not be able to "just get off their lazy asses" if you scrapped benefits. They would probably just die (the conservatives did try this for disabled people)
Tax relief on pension contributions just means that your taxable income is reduced by whatever amount you put into your pension.
Putting National Insurance back up to 10p would be the least pain for most people. Although on paper the richest may pay the most in tax, they still have access to lucrative tax loopholes and schemes that normal people working PAYE do not, which means, relatively, they pay less of their income into tax than normal people.
That's the problem that needs tackling, so that we're all taxed fairly. Capital gains on shares, stocks, dividends, etc,, lots of unearned wealth. Wealth that's come from just having money to gain wealth from. Not that this should be punitive, but it shouldn't be a method of paying less tax on your income/earnings.
If you dont include Gov borrowed money in GDP figures, tax is almost 50% of gdp. GDP less Gov Spending £850 billion is raised out £1.1 Trillion.
GDP is £2,700 billion.
Borrowing is £140 billion.
Taxes raised are £1,150 billion.
So no.
Taxes are about 44% of GDP.
@@stephfoxwell462044% is not far off 50%
Maybe the UK government could get creative...reduce taxes incentivise investment and entrepreneurship for example jmo
Council tax is a banding system, the bands are used to work out the distribution of the budget costs. Fiddling with them is pointless unless you are going to as additional bands at the top and use that in different areas. But then it isn’t council tax but local double income tax.
Isn't it worth mentioning the possibility that the BoE could stop paying interest on QE reserves held by commercial banks. Estimates range the country could find between 35-55b per year?
What are the downsides to doing this? They don't seem to be as clear as the perceived upside.
Downside is... that doesn't create money / value.
Just moves it from savers (as banks will have to pay lower interest rates) to taxpayers.
So robbing Peter to pay.... Peter. Not even Paul.
that reduces the effictness of monetary policy
I’m sure if we keep following Canada and LA there will be a carbon tax of some form on the way and a pay per mile for road users also on the way .
Why are we not looking at the real problem, Government is very top heavy, it's whitehall and their spending that needs to be cut. The cost of redundancy and unemployment for them would be overshadowed by the savings created.
Raynor's top heavy. When she gets sacked she can get a job in a cresche breastfeeding babies
Wrong government to be looking at reduction in spending. Labour part of tax and spend.
Get rid of the House of Lords and get rid of 550 MPs.
She blithely says put up tax on everyone. Just like that, despite whether it is affordable or not to pensioners (paying tax for the first time due to personal allowance freezes also including them despite a lifetime of paying it) and those struggling to afford even the basics. It’s the expectation, and many would say duty, of a Labour government to bring huge disparities in wealth to a halt and focus on wealth distribution. A reminder that Thatcher slashed income tax for the very top earners by as much as 30%. A similar false premise that government expenditure is the same as a household peddled by Thatcher runs through Reeves’ veins. At the same time remind her of her vow to keep within Tory fiscal restraints in place already, which reveals her as - a Tory.
.
What is scandalous is there being an inheritance tax at all.
it's really not
it's not, it makes society more equal
Did Prince Charles pay Inheritance tax on his inherited estate from the Queen?
Shock Horror!! Tax for thee, but not for me!!
@@nowisthetime6093pretty sure abolition of monarchy is a different discussion.
@@edc1569
Equal taxation or none at all was my point!
Only you mentioned abolition.
When taxes goes up it means we struggle to get our hands on oil/wind/nuclear. It is a way to stop production together with other meassures..
How about going after Microsoft, Google etc
What about changing import export duties?
More tax on imports is liable to raise inflation and industry would not support export taxes to make them less competitive.
@@anthonybrown4874 I'm thinking, inflation will boost wages & the tax take, given fiscal drag. Oil duty rises would also give renewables a boost. Good progress on renewables will bring down energy costs. Reform of the energy market to better reflect a higher renewables component would work to reduce inflation. If the gas based generation was replaced over time with grid scale battery storage, the demand will fall away steadily. So the tax increase could be short lived.
Trend forecaster Tony Seba makes a case for this to happen surprisingly quickly.
@@emmaatkinson4334 Inflation also increases pressure on public finances so is a double edged sword.
I've an idea! How about Rob everyone of everything and leave them to starve?
Oh... its already being implemented with own nothing and be happy..... somehow wef.
Everyone's friendly villan minus the cat.
When you talk about taxing pension on the way in / way out of pension schemes you miss (I think) the point that the relief going in is at 40% whereas because income in work is generally higher than in retirement- where I would guess most people are not getting into the 40% bracket. That is why alternating the up front relief might generally be argued to be ‘fair’?
The low esteem in which I held the IFS has now sunk into the abyss. Dimmer than Rachel Reeves.
I think they might be playing devils advocate at times for channel engagement to be honest, such is the state of the world and its attention driven economy now that everybody has to essentially become TalkSport.
Talk to people in Scandinavia and they say they like paying tax as they feel they are getting something back for what they pay. Not so in the UK.
Does the 22 billion black hole really exist
1% wealth tax on assets over £3m would raise £24bn. Problem solved.
@@martynsmith8120Did you watch the video?
As someone on 30k I don't mind paying a bit more tax IF they close all the loopholes the rich are exploiting first.
It was incredibly stupid of the Labour Party to rule out so many option on taxes. It was also politically incompetent to hit pensioners re winter fuel payments as a first measure pre budget. Rachel Reeves will always be remembered for this.
Stevie, spot on. Really dumb. They were scared of a repeat of 1992. Even now, they should swallow their pride and reverse the recent Tory tax cuts of £20bn. The Tories promised no new tax but did just that raising NI and Corporation Tax. As you say, incompetent politically.
Reeves did it pre budget because the qualifying week is September 16-22 and the budget is 30/10/24. It was a heads up for those that wouldn't be eligible. November - December payments cut off on 30/10/24 would not have been received well at all and would have been a scandal level controversy, along with backend government functions wasting time on a terminated scheme.
Those born on 23/9/58 or after and don't live in England or Wales are not eligible in '24-'25.
It was a tax free benefit where the benefit didn't equal the cost. Those are tough decisions but Reeves thought it necessary.
Yes I understand the timing issue but it was still politically inept. It was not in the manifesto and now Labour MPs will have to explain to folk on little more than £12k a year why they were picked on.
@@stevieguk8014you think people on 12k a year pay a lot of tax😂.
You don’t pay any income tax on that. The people who are paying the most are the high middle income earners over 100k and you’re paying 60% tax on your earnings.
No I am well aware of the tax bands etc The issue is that those pensioners on very low incomes will be deprived of their winter fuel payment.
One fact that did shock me was when Keir Starmer stated he would move the 1,000 civil servants from working on the Rawanda Scheme to working on his new Border Security Command.....Yes 1,000. That is a lot of staff/ money/ pensions. Most Police Forces don't have 1, 000 officers on duty across their counties on any one day!.
In a country that has lots of different groups that the new gov. could target, why does it always seem to be pensioners, esp. those with small work pensions, who take thet hit. We have lost our winter fuel allowance already, within weeks of them in post. if they start deducting NI.it woll be worse. I paid NI on my wages, for 40 yrs, i.e. Income tax 20 % enployee pension 6% NI 4-8 % , so about 30 % total.of every monthly wage went to the government in taxes. I now pay basis income tax of 20 % on every penny above the first £ 12750 of my pension, just like working people. (Sta
te pension is most of that, so I loose 20 % of almost all my work pension already to tax.
And all the benefits that are only given to people getting
pension credit, results in those who didnt bother to have a work pension being better off than those who have a small work pension !
Why not start the " hard choices" with richer folks or banks?
My mum and I were having this same discussion. My mum is in the same position as you and feels she has been punished for having a pension.
Her sister who does not have one is entitled to do much. Just recently had her boiler replaced for free due to pension credit.
It's just so unfair that it s very clear I will be facing the same with the the possibility of no state pension. Just not looking forward to this up coming budget.
Why shouldn't you pay NI on your income? The fact you paid it for 40 years is irrelevant.