I'm a taxi driver in The UK and would drive up to 50,000 miles per year. I thought poly bushes were The best thing ever for a number of year's as I would get at the least twice as much life out of the poly bushes that would from the rubber bushes. Until I started to notice that the metal that was in close contact with the bushes was wearing away. The wishbone arms would lose there tightness at holding the bushes to the point that the arms would need replaced so they could properly hold the bushes again. Another thing was the pins and sleeves and would wear and occasionally seize making it very difficult to get the arm apart again. I went back to using the OEM-quality rubber bushes and never had to replace an arm again. Just like to pass on my experiences when using poly bushes at high milage.
You never had to replace arm bushings anymore? I mean as a taxi driver you drive 5 times more than us average road users, Sir, I don't think it's possible you don't have to replace arms anymore. My last replacement was 2018 or early 2019 & I only cover between 8-9k km a year on Polish roads.
@@Sir-Kay Not being harsh, and no but it would help if you wrote a coherent sentence buddy. I genuinely don’t understand what you’re trying to say, can you just read over it and edit your comment?
This is the most realistic, non-bias, &informative vid I've seen on a long time. Most just brag about how new and great everything is, but long-term operation is more important than the initial "wow" factor. Thanks for sharing !!
Try to wrap a single layer of teflon tape around the inner (steel) bush thereafter smear a little silicone grease and you will reduce maintenance drastically (5 years or longer, you’ll see).
It's a pretty tight fit between the inner slave and the bushing, I don't think Teflon tape would have a chance of staying on there as you push it in, there's just not that much clearance by design to keep it nice and firm and have no movement which is the whole point of poly bushings.
@@Toys4Life First time I was told how to I reacted like you, but I tried it out and it really worked. Also it doesn't compromise the working of the PU bushes.
I was going to buy polyurethane bushing with about 10% more stiffness, but they also had the benefit of grease fittings and used red bearing grease. Those would be the best of both worlds I think unless you really want to race on twisty roads all the time.
Nice video, Kenneth. People, keep in mind that your current Fiero's rubber bushing are probably at least 15 to 35 years old. So, it's not firm like it used to be. So, replace it with new rubber bushings & you'd be surprised how firm they are. I see too often people switch to poly, thinking rubber bushings are terrible but they forgot to consider the fact that their rubber bushings are OLD. Most of us probably will never use the track for racing full time or try the track few times doesn't mean you should switch to poly. Nope!
i went polly about 20 or so on my 88 AW11 it was bearly noticable sound wise And there was an apriciable increse in the sensetivity of the car @@SantNolo
Good video, covers the issues with poly bushes nicely. I always avoided them for moving arms and favored press-in vulcanised rubber bushes. After going from a full set of rose-jointed arms to HardRace vulcanised rubber bushes (Nissan 180sx), the handling wasn't quite as crisp with the rubber, but it was decent. Meanwhile, NVH was massively improved. I found the same thing changing from poly rear subframe mounts to nismo vulcanised rubber bushes; no noticeable performance difference but my word the NVH was better with the hardened rubber. The biggest trap imo are polyurethane gearbox bushes for a RWD. The clutch kicks with the poly bush were great, there was no mechanical binding and the gear shift/release didn't stick, but I hated the noise the bush pumped into the cabin so much that I put a stock one back on 2 hours after installation at 10pm. Replaced the factory rubber bush with the Nismo hardened rubber version and it was 80% of the poly bush in terms of performance and only a minor increase in NVH. Personally, I don't think poly is worth it at all, unless it's a dedicated track car and you don't want to keep replacing heim joints. The main reason I think rubber gets ignored for performance is that people don't pay the extra for hardened versions, then they torque the arms with the car on stands. Rubber bushes won't function properly if they aren't torqued at static ride height, as deflection is a component of their function (i.e. internal deflection is what allows their rotation).
Beel looking for an honest answer to this exact question. I've just bought the full quiver of hardened rubber arms for my s13 sil because of the nvh of rose joints on it currently. Thanks for confirming my suspicion with real world experience.
Old video, I know, but one thing i like to add. Some polyurethane bushing manufacturers have different choices of hardness to choose. Usually three from soft to hard on Durometer Hardness Scale A, or ShA for short. Scaling from 0 to 100, where 100 is hardest. For example: Light car, street use - pick a soft bushings. 75 ShA Heavier car, street use - pick mediums. 85 ShA Heavier car with occasional track day use - hard bushings. 90ShA Light car for track or race, pick medium or hard bushings. 85-90ShA. Usually I choose 75ShA bushing, because they give me the best compromise between stock rubber and polyurethane. By the way. I don't know what grease came with PowerFlex polyurethane bushings, but they don't squeak even after 8 years after installing them. Or they use some engineering magic to eliminate squeaking? Also, it depends what car you have. For example BMW e46 has so comfortable ride quality with stock bushings, i replaced all of them with Power Flex and they didn't make the car harsh and don't let too much road feedback to the wheel. And the car is still pretty quiet. But, never put polyurethane to gearbox or engine mounts, it ruins the quality of almost vibration free engine and gear knob. On the other hand, very lightweight Mazda MX-3 will go full "race-mode" when changing the bushings to polyurethane, or you have to find a manufacturer who make very soft ones for you.
I just happened to see another video by a British fellow tell how he tightly wraps his sleeve with overlapping wraps of teflon tape plus the bushing itself and the ends. He said he never gets squeaks this way. He smears a little of that grease on first, wraps it, then adds more lube and installs.
I would consider drilling a small diameter hole through the control arm and the bushing and then tapping the hole in the control arm for the insertion of a zerk grease fitting. You could then pump some silicone grease into the bushing every six months or so. I have that on the polyurethane bushings that are on my upgraded anti-sway bars and I haven't had any issues with the bushings in the four years they've been on the car.
youre a godsend im over here trying to choose betweem replacing my bushings or just getting new control arms all around. this easily just put me over the edge and im just getting new arms all around to avoid instllation hassle.
I filled the stock rubber lower torque mount of my Sentra 2.5 ser spec V with Lepage® Polyurethane construction adhesive in hope of getting it last for more than a year or two (after 3 replacements). It ended up adding a bit of stiffness. 4 years since I did it and the mount is still fine. Total cost: 5$. I'm about to replace the rear axle beam and will probably do the same with thoses bushings, just to try it.
Thank you for the video. I always consider buying these for better handling/performance, but with daily driver going to pass seeing the maintenance. Extremely appreciate your time. I will save a check.
I've never seen rubber bushings fail in less than 10 years, unless they were the cheapest China Amazon crap, then maybe. Get yourself some good moog replacements and they'll last 10 years. In my opinion sir.
I replaced my dog bone with Rodney's solid mount bone. I drive a 2.5 so...you want to talk about vibrations! I replaced the trans mounts, sway bar, end links and control arms with red poly. She rattles like crazy but i love it
Some polyurethane compounds are lower durometer than others so they can be made just as hard or soft as the OE rubber bushings. They are harder for better control as you said and always make sure you use the included silicone grease. They will stay consistent with age and not harden like OE rubber.
I went with the prothane entire suspension poly bushings kit for my SRT-4, and I've been incredibly happy with it, had them in for about 18 months now.
@@Toys4Life My SRT4 is a garage queen these days. 85k miles on her, never driven in the rain anymore. The most water she sees is the car wash from time to time, and never the automatic, only the loving feel of the hand wash bays lol
On the opposite end of the performance spectrum, I put polyurethane bushings on my 98 Ford Ranger. Made a huge difference in handling. Really made the truck a joy to drive. No noticeable increase in NVH, probably because the baseline noise in the vehicle was so high anyway.
I upgraded the stock anti roll bars on my 370Z with some stiffer Hotchkis sways that have polyurethane bushings. The U shackles for the bushings have zerk grease fittings and so I just shoot some polyurethane grease into them every other oil change, no squeaks after two years.
@@Toys4Life it’s a trade secret. There are other videos on UA-cam that cover it. I stayed away from poly bushings just because of the terrible squeak until I found out about the Teflon trick. It works really well.
@@kolesidisgiannis I never used the energy suspension grease, since most of the forums I read their, bushings started to squeak bad within a year and sounded like a old rocking chair going down the road.
@@hydrophaintconcepts4675 ive been thinking the same but never had real confirmation about this ... ive always use the typical shell red grease for everything and found this white stuff pretty gross to Use on suspensiom
I had someone to replace my torque mount on my 2004 Mazda 6s because the original rubber wore out and I did research on polyurethane car parts. Very big difference having the polyurethane torque mount for long the part will last without the hassle of me worrying about any future wear. My car is equipped with the 5-speed manual transmission and the polyurethane torque mount has been on my car in still new condition for six years.
yeah, I'm contemplating these. Thnx 4 sharing ur experience !! I bet tho, that the squeak is coming from that mystery grease that clearly dried up. Better use a lube that you know will last. One way I can tell is if it is already super old and still good. Like I've found stuff that my dad purchased 40 something years ago. Still good as new. That means its good stuff. Also, a trick I learned is to use silicone glue to seal up things I want the lube to stay inside. Like silicone window seal/aquarium glue. It comes off nice & easy if you want, but doesn't wear out/lasts forever. I think of it like a slippery gasket that will act like a grease once it gets rubbed a bit...
Appreciate your comment, have to be careful though I'm not sure if a petroleum grease would eat the poly or not. I should do a long-term test on an old poly bushing???
You need to add a shim at the end of the tube, the shim OD should be same or slightly less than the inner steel tube. This way the ends of the bushing wont rub on the subframe and no squeaking
You forgot to mention binding in certain situations. I got rid of all my poly in the arms and went del-alum, no more noise or binding. NVH is the same. I have poly swaybar mounts, body mounts and end links.
I've tried to warn people about poly bushings only to have people online flip out and swear they use them and they are the greatest thing of all time. And really if you're happy living with the problems, great, just don't pretend it's a drop in upgrade that is in every way better. The real problem with poly is that on the A-arms it's acting as a bearing and it's not sealed or a great bearing, hence the reason you have to lube them up. There's little too no advantage to poly over a harder rubber compound which is available for some applications. Even better for rigidity would be actual bearings. I think where poly shines is anywhere they aren't expected to act as a bearing. Motor mounts are great, cradle mounts in poly are easier to get harder than rubber but cradle mounts on the Fiero are still better solid mounted.
I put Prothane poly bushings everywhere even the engine cradle and front rear (my own design) sway bars in my 1986 1/2 Fiero GT about 8 years ago, still no squeaking, but the car is never driven in the rain or snow. The handling is way better for the swap, but then the old bushings had 150,000 miles on them. And burning the old bushings out was a PITA.
They say the black poly bushing option bis better because it gets it's black color from having graphite in it and that is a natural lubricant in the black bushing VS Red
@@Toys4Life let me know what they say than thanks. A guy that owns a 4 wheel drive shop used poly bushings alot in lifted trucks he would build and told me that so I'm curious to.
I have had black Energy Suspension bushings in a 1977 F150 4x4 for nearly 15 years and have never had a squeak. It is a daily driver/work truck. My track arm bushing is starting to have play in it again and I was browsing in search of tips. I think I am going to try mixing graphite and silicone when I replace the bushings next time.
The bushing is designed to pivot between the inner sleeve and the bushing. Putting thin soft PTFE tape in there is oing to lead to the PTFE shredding up into little balls (I would think) and I would think it would also allow water to sit inside there and corrode the sleeve. I should test to be sure, but I don't have high faith that would work for a daily driver exposed to the elements over say 5 years....
I ordered Aronix high temperature teflon grease. I'll get my mechanic to use this. I zlos ordered teflon tape for when my Powerflex bushes arrive. I will get the front and rear wishbones by the mechanic, the arb's I'll probably fit myself and the rear beam ones done my rhe mechanic also. I only drive around 6k kilometres a year, if that.
There is an Australian company by the name of superpro. They have a lifetime warranty on their poly bushings against squeaks and other problems. They also claim they will never need maintenance “SuperPro bushings use a proprietary polyurethane mix that allows for the precise control of a poly bushing with very little impact on NVH. They also have internal geometry designed to retain grease, and a proprietary lube which prevents noise. This means they don't squeak, and require no maintenance (as long as you use the included grease). SuperPro offers a lifetime warranty against squeaking or any other failure on these bushings - even if you race the car, which is basically unheard of in the bushing world!”
0:55 "Keeps suspension geometry as intended" - Bushing deflection has been a design parameter for suspensions since at least 30 years. It's called Elasto-kinematics, e.g. toe-in at the rear under braking is commonly used. You lose that with PU bushings, which can be detrimental to handling, even if the car feels "more tight" to drive. If you are having trouble with maintenance on PU bushings, try the teflon tape method!
seems like the non stressed point would still be the same, the deflection (toe in under acceleration and toe out during braking would just move less in either direction vs rubber- no?
@@Toys4Life Depends on how the bushing is designed. Take the rear trailing arm bushing on 90s Honda Civics for example: The Whiteline bushing is slotted in front and behind of the center rod, which allows the bushing to flex. If you go for a solid bushing (Energy Suspension and such), the required flex will be no longer there, and the bushing can even bind up leading to snap oversteer. In that case, the intended behavior of the bushing is "flex" - if you remove that, you are left with the kinematic toe-out under braking and get a very nervous rear end that you can't catch once it goes. If you happen to own the book "The Automotive Chassis: Engineering Principles" by Reimpell et al., there is a great description of that bushing on page 62.
But that designed in deflection is with stock tires. Anyone going to track is going to be using tires much stickier than stock generating much higher deflection forces. Using something stiffer like poly means deflection closer to designed specs in that case. Even on street, most choosing poly will already be running tires wider and softer compound than stock design.
I think water in general, is going to drastically reduce their effectiveness over time. We definitely get a lot of rain and humid days in the summers, that might contribute to it here.
You make a good point. That having been said, If you take a look at the suspension components of a Pontiac fiero compared to something like an '80s Mazda RX7, the fiero is so overbuilt that even with the added stress that the poly would inflict due to its lesser ability to dampen movements to the fiero chassis is negligible compared to how overbuilt it is in my opinion.
The following pertains to energysuspension bushings. There are a lot of issues with these bushings, some are not manufacturers' fault, others - are. And I am not talking about price - this is something the buyer at least knows in advance. 1. Their claim that all it takes is "some smoke from the bushing to separate the sleeves from rubber" is outright lie. It may be the case with jeep but certainly not with Toyota - you need to torch it for a long time to actually burn rubber off. 2. The fact that they don't provide sleeves with the bushings is simply ridiculous. Especially considering price. In fact, I would not mind paying extra so that I did not have to dicect the old bushings, and the first issue is minor compared to this one. It is pretty common for bolts/sleeves freeze in bushings so it's virtually impossible to separated them from inner bushing sleeves without damaging. It may not be an issue with jeeps and fords because their bushings are replaced on a regular basis but Toyota bushings last so long that it's practically unavoidable to face this. In my case, the truck is 17 yo with 230,000 miles, and the original bushings were still good. The only reason I had to replace them was installation of lift and JBA upper control arms that required alignment that couldn't be performed because - you guessed it - one bolt and one cam sleeve were frozen. After 17 years in the Midwest and N-E, is should not come as a surprise. This condition requires a hell of a lot of heating and pounding, pounding and heating, and then it's a real PITA to attach the [original] washers to most likely damaged bushing sleeves. 3. The last issue is design - there are no lubrication means. And don't tell me it's impossible - just look at JBA upper control arms. I installed grease fitting in control arm ears and drilled holes in the bushings to allow grease flow to inner sleeves. Hope it will work. Overall, bushing material is probably adequate but pure inexcusable greed that prevented the manufacturer from providing lower bushing sleeves and washers (even for extra $$) is beyond ridiculous. Bottom line: if your vehicle is 10+ yo and has spent that time in places where winter happens every year, expect MAJOR (BIGLY!) hassle installing these bushings. Or - MUCH BETTER OPTION - buy from another manufacture that does provide all necessary coponents and does not force to wash and reuse condoms because reusing bushing sleeves is just as ridiculous as reusing condoms.
Just found your channel because I watched your video about headers. Picked up a C5 for a great deal but it has long tube headers that scrape everywhere AND are THE cheapest new ones I could find ($250)!!! So obviously they are garbage and I have to decide if I'm going to spend the money anyway should I just get good long tubes or pay a lot to go back to stock :( ANYWAY great channel keep it up I bet soon you'll get more and more viewers as younger people start being able to afford nice cheap C5s. Also THANK YOU FOR MAKING PLAYLISTS ON YOUR CHANNEL FOR SPECIFIC VEHICLES AND SEPERATING EACH ONE BY APPEARANCE VS MAINTENANCE/PERFORMANCE!!!
I have heard people say that too but - the grease also helps to keep water out and corrosion from forming. Replace it with teflon and it may be squeak free for a while but I would think it would allow water to come in and perform its unpleasant magic.... I just don't see it as a viable solution.
If they gave you the fittings and the channel inside the poly to get to that middle sleeve, it might work but you might want to preheat the lube because it's pretty gooey sticky stuff even at room temp.
Yeah I don’t want to have to do anything like this. I’d rather have the rubber ones and have them fail. So I only have to take it apart once every 7-8 years vs every 2.
So I recently put poly bushings in my rear suspension because it was totally clapped out and I couldn’t find rubber. I have the bushings for the front but I have not installed them and when I took my car for a test drive I find that it feels strange like my car doesn’t conform to bumps in the road. It’s not harsh but it almost feels like the rear wants to slide and when I hit a pot hole I swear that I get some air. Is this normal? I have no idea.
@@gnfanatic9139 thanks, it ended up being an issue with alignment. I had to make a couple adjustments and I’m good now but I really appreciate the information
you dont need to maintance "squeek" every year, if you lern to put around the sleeve teflon tape. Well at least it should got a chance, learned it from different channel when i am interested about to use it as well. You will find more if you start searching for teflon tape and the polyurethane bushings.
Honestly - it seems like a hack fix to me. I can see how you can wrap it around a sway bar and use the split bushing over that. I am not envisioning how y ou drive the sleeve into the control arm bushing without shearing off and leaving the teflon tape outside of the bushing. It is a pretty snug fit. LINK to vid of someone doing it?
@@Toys4Life yeah i will find it for you today and send a link. He was abble to manage it with nece prepared tape around. There is a bit of skill to make it. He did nice and tight wrap around in one of layer.
So I have a question, I can came across your video trying to see what these bushings were about and honestly they fit my bill but the havinbg to re lube them part is getting to me as im looking for rear subframe bushing, not control arms or anything of that sort. Im not trying to remove my rear subframe every two years so its that on all bushings made of this or do I not have to re lube sub frame bushings every two years?
You can buy poly bushings that are with center connected to the poly itself. You get best of both worlds, longevity of poly, maintenance free from rubber world.
Do you not use silicone paste as a lubricant? That's the proper lubricant for polyurethane suspension parts. I don't think silicone paste dries out if I'm not mistaken.
@@Toys4Life Even with using their lubricant, the bushings will start to squeak after a year or two? I can't find rubber bushings for my C5 and really don't want to deal with the squeaking!
@@Toys4Life Energy suspensions default grease is silicone based, I've messaged them when I ran out of the lube doing my rear subframe bushings on my Silvia, they said that any Silicone based grease works just fine like theirs!, I used Brake parts silicone based lube and after 2-3 years no squeaks yet (No winter driving, Sunny Sunday type of car)
Delrin AF is self lubricanting, or for another thousand completely maintenance free you can just go monoball. Get some good shocks. Good for life. 0 maintenance
I heard that if you wrap the bushing with a single layer of Teflon tape and the mounting surface where it mounts on sway bars, you will have no noise. You do that and then apply grease and multiple people report no squeaks a long time after. I think a good strategy would be to first treat the sway bar bushing contact points with a Teflon spray or even a ceramic coating. Then add the tape and the grease and I think if you do this you will have no future issues with noise.
That might work with sway bars, but I don't think the air ambushings, it's more of a press fit as opposed to an open up the bushing and slide it over this way bar fit.
I drilled and added grease fittings to my lower A frame arms and grease the bushings with Lucas Red and Tacky lithium grease. Your bushing will last years longer. It was 10 years since install and its still better than any rubber bushing . Just don’t use petroleum grease. the little tube of silicone grease they give you is a joke. It won’t last long. If you grease the car regularly there is no need for the teflon tape trick.
Energy suspension formula 5 is some tacky sticky stuff. I couldn't find what's in it so I'll take your word for it that's got silicone but it's not like normal silicon grease.
@@Toys4Life Absolutely not. The stock lube is sicilon based and it washes out really fast thats why people start getting squeak sounds after minor use. I've did my homework. People used different techniques to stop it like using teflon and stuff, but this method is the easiest and the most perfect one for long term use. I really hope i helped you and next time, give it a shot mate. You will thank me later :)
I appreciate your efforts! I'm going to go look I think I still have a small tube in my shop of what came in the box. I think it's the same stuff but I'll get back to you.
2:42 the need to maintain the bushes every year or two: thank you, THANK YOU, I'm so glad I found this video and you pointed this out. The 'hate' I got for saying much the same thing (here: ua-cam.com/users/clipUgkxKMmYnfDcpBFwkYXbc71b5KsXAoPoXs1f?si=j-tKXapC1RJxtc8f) - oh boy!
I think cars come with rubber bushings for the majority of people who just want a soft quiet ride. Serious track people will definitely want something harder than rubber like poly or other material to keep the suspension geometry as it should be.
You can't tell that his suspension still moves IN THE INTENDED MANNER ONLY perfectly normal? Damn, better get your eyes checked. The point of stiffer bushings (of any given material) is to prevent FLEX and DEFLECTION. AKA the unwanted movement that misaligns components and causes issues like excessive camber and toe in turns, or wheel hop on acceleration.
Heard of solid metal bushings? Used in race cars. Zero deflection, but suspension still articulates. Think of a motorcycle chain. Its just a bunch of tiny metal bushings. Moving around a lot faster and more often than any suspension. Poly attempts to be middle ground between solid bushings that works by friction, and rubber bushings that work by stretching. The video does an excellent job describing how well they accomplish that, and the compromises involved.
Why they don't is beyond me. I need to look into that further. Would need a dedicated small grease gun for the special non petroleum grease but that is no biggie compared to the current re-lube procedure!!!
im going with polyurethane because im going to be putting my car on coilovers an slamming the shit out of it lol. though i am just doing it for the rear suspension on a 98 toyota XLS . i was trying to replace the trailing arms on it an the bolt had seized with the old bushing so i cut that shit an burnt the old bushing out ahah
I believe it's possible on most applications to drill, tap and install a zerk fitting. There are some poly bushings that incorporate the grease fitting.
I don't reckon this is a very good review. Let me have a go, cause I use PU in every day drivers, and thank god the stuff became available. First, PU is much more cost effective and preserves ride quality. Rubber bushings are really expensive and deteriorate quickly. Especially on bad roads, and especially if you have a heavy car or truck. Anyone who changes their own bushings knows the exorbitant price of a bit of crap rubber from Mexico or China. PU bushings are cheaper in the first place - opften a quarter or a third of the cost - and last for ages. Converting to PU leaves SO MUCH MORE MONEY IN YOUR WALLET. Especially when you just buy the PU and use the original inserts and sleeves. Rubber bushings can crack straight up, especially if some guy has had them in his shop for ages. You know you are driving around with good bushings with the PU, even if you hit a pothole wanted to push your strut through the bonnet first day you put them in. They give you confidence. You can get different hardness too, for example from Shore 40 to Shore 80, so if you found the ones you installed make a rough ride you don't like, buy or make some softer ones. You are pulling your car apart to change bushings all the time anyway if you go with rubber, so the service interval for the PU is no hassle. You want to be pulling steering and suspension apart that often anyways to check everything is A1. The only downsides are that they are not available for all cars, and that you have to make your own sometimes; that the liquid form isn't something you want to be sucking the fumes off while you are working; and that parts will have to be modified in some cases because the busing is not bonded to the insert or sleeve to prevent lateral movement. A final advantage is that if you do make your own custom sleeves and press or weld them in, changing the bushings next time around requires a lot less effort because you only have to pop the soft part in and out, not press sleeves.
Yep, you're not the first one to bring up the PTFE tape trick. I may try it but I have serious doubts about how well it will hold up in real world daily driving.
I'm a taxi driver in The UK and would drive up to 50,000 miles per year. I thought poly bushes were The best thing ever for a number of year's as I would get at the least twice as much life out of the poly bushes that would from the rubber bushes. Until I started to notice that the metal that was in close contact with the bushes was wearing away. The wishbone arms would lose there tightness at holding the bushes to the point that the arms would need replaced so they could properly hold the bushes again. Another thing was the pins and sleeves and would wear and occasionally seize making it very difficult to get the arm apart again. I went back to using the OEM-quality rubber bushes and never had to replace an arm again. Just like to pass on my experiences when using poly bushes at high milage.
That's some good feedback right there, thank you!!
You never had to replace arm bushings anymore? I mean as a taxi driver you drive 5 times more than us average road users, Sir, I don't think it's possible you don't have to replace arms anymore. My last replacement was 2018 or early 2019 & I only cover between 8-9k km a year on Polish roads.
@@Sir-Kay your comment doesn’t make sense. He said he doesn’t have to replace arms anymore, only the arm bushings.
@@TM-fx5le don't need to be harsh. Need a hug?
@@Sir-Kay Not being harsh, and no but it would help if you wrote a coherent sentence buddy. I genuinely don’t understand what you’re trying to say, can you just read over it and edit your comment?
This is the most realistic, non-bias, &informative vid I've seen on a long time. Most just brag about how new and great everything is, but long-term operation is more important than the initial "wow" factor.
Thanks for sharing !!
Thank you!
This convinced me to go with simple rubber for the daily driver. Thanks for saving me a lot of grief.
You made the right choice 100%
Try to wrap a single layer of teflon tape around the inner (steel) bush thereafter smear a little silicone grease and you will reduce maintenance drastically (5 years or longer, you’ll see).
It's a pretty tight fit between the inner slave and the bushing, I don't think Teflon tape would have a chance of staying on there as you push it in, there's just not that much clearance by design to keep it nice and firm and have no movement which is the whole point of poly bushings.
@@Toys4Life just try it, have done it for years and learned it from a tuner.
@@frankpeutz9106 I'll give it a whirl the next time I've got one squeaking. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@Toys4Life First time I was told how to I reacted like you, but I tried it out and it really worked. Also it doesn't compromise the working of the PU bushes.
What about that thick yellow Teflon tape for gas lines
You ever try that
I was going to buy polyurethane bushing with about 10% more stiffness, but they also had the benefit of grease fittings and used red bearing grease. Those would be the best of both worlds I think unless you really want to race on twisty roads all the time.
What brand?
Lucas Marine grease is what I use @@Toys4Life
Nice video, Kenneth.
People, keep in mind that your current Fiero's rubber bushing are probably at least 15 to 35 years old. So, it's not firm like it used to be. So, replace it with new rubber bushings & you'd be surprised how firm they are.
I see too often people switch to poly, thinking rubber bushings are terrible but they forgot to consider the fact that their rubber bushings are OLD.
Most of us probably will never use the track for racing full time or try the track few times doesn't mean you should switch to poly. Nope!
Good points,. Agreed!
im one of those suckers :(
just made an uninformed buy of a prothane total kit for my AW11, oh well...
i went polly about 20 or so on my 88 AW11 it was bearly noticable sound wise And there was an apriciable increse in the sensetivity of the car
@@SantNolo
This is by far the best advice for the majority of Street driven Cars.
Right along with “ Why do you need Carbon Fibre Brake Brake Rotors ?”
I put poly in my car's suspension to reduce damping and the car just floats over bumps now.
Good video, covers the issues with poly bushes nicely. I always avoided them for moving arms and favored press-in vulcanised rubber bushes. After going from a full set of rose-jointed arms to HardRace vulcanised rubber bushes (Nissan 180sx), the handling wasn't quite as crisp with the rubber, but it was decent. Meanwhile, NVH was massively improved. I found the same thing changing from poly rear subframe mounts to nismo vulcanised rubber bushes; no noticeable performance difference but my word the NVH was better with the hardened rubber.
The biggest trap imo are polyurethane gearbox bushes for a RWD. The clutch kicks with the poly bush were great, there was no mechanical binding and the gear shift/release didn't stick, but I hated the noise the bush pumped into the cabin so much that I put a stock one back on 2 hours after installation at 10pm. Replaced the factory rubber bush with the Nismo hardened rubber version and it was 80% of the poly bush in terms of performance and only a minor increase in NVH.
Personally, I don't think poly is worth it at all, unless it's a dedicated track car and you don't want to keep replacing heim joints. The main reason I think rubber gets ignored for performance is that people don't pay the extra for hardened versions, then they torque the arms with the car on stands. Rubber bushes won't function properly if they aren't torqued at static ride height, as deflection is a component of their function (i.e. internal deflection is what allows their rotation).
Beel looking for an honest answer to this exact question. I've just bought the full quiver of hardened rubber arms for my s13 sil because of the nvh of rose joints on it currently. Thanks for confirming my suspicion with real world experience.
The instructions in the last paragraph will help a LOT of people who aren't familiar with doing this!
Just installed some on my front lca in my 15’ STI and man. The car feels solid. No more wobble feel when going over uneven roads. Feels great!
Old video, I know, but one thing i like to add. Some polyurethane bushing manufacturers have different choices of hardness to choose. Usually three from soft to hard on Durometer Hardness Scale A, or ShA for short. Scaling from 0 to 100, where 100 is hardest. For example:
Light car, street use - pick a soft bushings. 75 ShA
Heavier car, street use - pick mediums. 85 ShA
Heavier car with occasional track day use - hard bushings. 90ShA
Light car for track or race, pick medium or hard bushings. 85-90ShA.
Usually I choose 75ShA bushing, because they give me the best compromise between stock rubber and polyurethane.
By the way. I don't know what grease came with PowerFlex polyurethane bushings, but they don't squeak even after 8 years after installing them. Or they use some engineering magic to eliminate squeaking? Also, it depends what car you have. For example BMW e46 has so comfortable ride quality with stock bushings, i replaced all of them with Power Flex and they didn't make the car harsh and don't let too much road feedback to the wheel. And the car is still pretty quiet. But, never put polyurethane to gearbox or engine mounts, it ruins the quality of almost vibration free engine and gear knob. On the other hand, very lightweight Mazda MX-3 will go full "race-mode" when changing the bushings to polyurethane, or you have to find a manufacturer who make very soft ones for you.
Thank you for the info and your experiences, much appreciated!
@@Toys4Life And I want to thank you, for your hard work and very informative videos. 🍻
Wow - thanks for sharing that. Wasn't aware of the increased need for maintenance.
Happy to help!
I just happened to see another video by a British fellow tell how he tightly wraps his sleeve with overlapping wraps of teflon tape plus the bushing itself and the ends. He said he never gets squeaks this way. He smears a little of that grease on first, wraps it, then adds more lube and installs.
Interesting I've heard that a few times now in the comments here, must be some merit to it 🙂
I would consider drilling a small diameter hole through the control arm and the bushing and then tapping the hole in the control arm for the insertion of a zerk grease fitting. You could then pump some silicone grease into the bushing every six months or so.
I have that on the polyurethane bushings that are on my upgraded anti-sway bars and I haven't had any issues with the bushings in the four years they've been on the car.
i've done the same with sway bar bushings, but also used a dremel to make small circumferential channels (grooves) on the insides of the bushings
@tommyZ06 That's a very good idea and something that had occurred to me before as something one would want to do to get the grease evenly distributed.
youre a godsend im over here trying to choose betweem replacing my bushings or just getting new control arms all around. this easily just put me over the edge and im just getting new arms all around to avoid instllation hassle.
I filled the stock rubber lower torque mount of my Sentra 2.5 ser spec V with Lepage® Polyurethane construction adhesive in hope of getting it last for more than a year or two (after 3 replacements). It ended up adding a bit of stiffness. 4 years since I did it and the mount is still fine. Total cost: 5$. I'm about to replace the rear axle beam and will probably do the same with thoses bushings, just to try it.
That's pretty interesting 🤔
@@Toys4Life
drive.google.com/file/d/1NZFRL-oCh4dWMaPpzhJZLyhJJ2bT2Zd4/view?usp=drivesdk
@@Toys4Life
Rear axle beam replacement on ice. "Canucks style". 🤷♂️🇨🇦
Thank you for the video. I always consider buying these for better handling/performance, but with daily driver going to pass seeing the maintenance. Extremely appreciate your time. I will save a check.
Thank you! If it is a dedicated performance toy - I would go for it. Daily driving in all conditions - I would consider the maintenance. Cheers!
Aftermarket rubber bushings will fail in one to two years. When you see the price of factory bushings, poly starts to look like a great deal.
I've never seen rubber bushings fail in less than 10 years, unless they were the cheapest China Amazon crap, then maybe. Get yourself some good moog replacements and they'll last 10 years. In my opinion sir.
I replaced my dog bone with Rodney's solid mount bone. I drive a 2.5 so...you want to talk about vibrations! I replaced the trans mounts, sway bar, end links and control arms with red poly. She rattles like crazy but i love it
That's what I want to do this weekend relube my bushings.
Squeaking pretty good?
Some polyurethane compounds are lower durometer than others so they can be made just as hard or soft as the OE rubber bushings. They are harder for better control as you said and always make sure you use the included silicone grease. They will stay consistent with age and not harden like OE rubber.
I went with the prothane entire suspension poly bushings kit for my SRT-4, and I've been incredibly happy with it, had them in for about 18 months now.
Curious, What state do you live in, and you drive it year round including wet weather? Glad you're working out for you!
@@Toys4Life My SRT4 is a garage queen these days. 85k miles on her, never driven in the rain anymore. The most water she sees is the car wash from time to time, and never the automatic, only the loving feel of the hand wash bays lol
On the opposite end of the performance spectrum, I put polyurethane bushings on my 98 Ford Ranger. Made a huge difference in handling. Really made the truck a joy to drive. No noticeable increase in NVH, probably because the baseline noise in the vehicle was so high anyway.
I upgraded the stock anti roll bars on my 370Z with some stiffer Hotchkis sways that have polyurethane bushings. The U shackles for the bushings have zerk grease fittings and so I just shoot some polyurethane grease into them every other oil change, no squeaks after two years.
The inner sleeve should be wrap in Teflon, and use a full synthetic wheel bearing grease. This will prevent the squeaky terrible sound for years.
Where did that come from?
@@Toys4Life it’s a trade secret. There are other videos on UA-cam that cover it. I stayed away from poly bushings just because of the terrible squeak until I found out about the Teflon trick. It works really well.
@@hydrophaintconcepts4675 What about the use of bearing grease versus the Energy Suspension sticky stuff? Your opinion based on experience?
@@kolesidisgiannis I never used the energy suspension grease, since most of the forums I read their, bushings started to squeak bad within a year and sounded like a old rocking chair going down the road.
@@hydrophaintconcepts4675 ive been thinking the same but never had real confirmation about this ... ive always use the typical shell red grease for everything and found this white stuff pretty gross to
Use on suspensiom
I had someone to replace my torque mount on my 2004 Mazda 6s because the original rubber wore out and I did research on polyurethane car parts. Very big difference having the polyurethane torque mount for long the part will last without the hassle of me worrying about any future wear. My car is equipped with the 5-speed manual transmission and the polyurethane torque mount has been on my car in still new condition for six years.
Did you notice much additional vibration with the poly for this application?
@@Toys4Life No.
yeah, I'm contemplating these. Thnx 4 sharing ur experience !! I bet tho, that the squeak is coming from that mystery grease that clearly dried up. Better use a lube that you know will last. One way I can tell is if it is already super old and still good. Like I've found stuff that my dad purchased 40 something years ago. Still good as new. That means its good stuff. Also, a trick I learned is to use silicone glue to seal up things I want the lube to stay inside. Like silicone window seal/aquarium glue. It comes off nice & easy if you want, but doesn't wear out/lasts forever. I think of it like a slippery gasket that will act like a grease once it gets rubbed a bit...
Appreciate your comment, have to be careful though I'm not sure if a petroleum grease would eat the poly or not. I should do a long-term test on an old poly bushing???
You answered all my questions, im gonna stick with rubber on the daily. Thank you. Subbed.
Appreciate the comment & sub - thanks!
You need to add a shim at the end of the tube, the shim OD should be same or slightly less than the inner steel tube. This way the ends of the bushing wont rub on the subframe and no squeaking
That might work, very thin stainless steel shim perhaps?
@@Toys4Life Yes Sir !
zerk fitting? Drill into one side. Able to inject goo into the bearing portion from the outside as well as push contaminants out.
You forgot to mention binding in certain situations. I got rid of all my poly in the arms and went del-alum, no more noise or binding. NVH is the same. I have poly swaybar mounts, body mounts and end links.
This was super helpful! Thank you so much for concise and thorough explanation.
Yes the noise can get loud,but a world of difference in movement.
Especially if you are tracking it or accelerating rapidly to put those increased forces on it!
I've tried to warn people about poly bushings only to have people online flip out and swear they use them and they are the greatest thing of all time. And really if you're happy living with the problems, great, just don't pretend it's a drop in upgrade that is in every way better.
The real problem with poly is that on the A-arms it's acting as a bearing and it's not sealed or a great bearing, hence the reason you have to lube them up. There's little too no advantage to poly over a harder rubber compound which is available for some applications. Even better for rigidity would be actual bearings.
I think where poly shines is anywhere they aren't expected to act as a bearing. Motor mounts are great, cradle mounts in poly are easier to get harder than rubber but cradle mounts on the Fiero are still better solid mounted.
Excellent analysis sir! Thanks for taking the time to chime in!
Thank you for the video! Why don’t you use 80 or 95 shore A? Not only the durability, but also the handing will improve
No reason in particular.
I put Prothane poly bushings everywhere even the engine cradle and front rear (my own design) sway bars in my 1986 1/2 Fiero GT about 8 years ago, still no squeaking, but the car is never driven in the rain or snow. The handling is way better for the swap, but then the old bushings had 150,000 miles on them. And burning the old bushings out was a PITA.
& smelly
@@Toys4Life Yup!
Had poly on my GTP it was so loud didn't matter if they made noise and that W body needed everything it could to stiffen up.
Didn't know W bodys were so flimsy!
@@Toys4Life
They're not that terrible.
Shouldn't there be grease fittings on the bushings to do while they are on the car?
They say the black poly bushing option bis better because it gets it's black color from having graphite in it and that is a natural lubricant in the black bushing VS Red
That sounds plausible. Maybe I'll call energy suspension and see if they can validate that? If true, that would make it a no-brainer to go with black.
@@Toys4Life let me know what they say than thanks. A guy that owns a 4 wheel drive shop used poly bushings alot in lifted trucks he would build and told me that so I'm curious to.
I have had black Energy Suspension bushings in a 1977 F150 4x4 for nearly 15 years and have never had a squeak. It is a daily driver/work truck. My track arm bushing is starting to have play in it again and I was browsing in search of tips. I think I am going to try mixing graphite and silicone when I replace the bushings next time.
Can you try the PTFE tape lube trick?
The bushing is designed to pivot between the inner sleeve and the bushing. Putting thin soft PTFE tape in there is oing to lead to the PTFE shredding up into little balls (I would think) and I would think it would also allow water to sit inside there and corrode the sleeve. I should test to be sure, but I don't have high faith that would work for a daily driver exposed to the elements over say 5 years....
Cheers, definitely not going to buy the poly's for my Subaru outback, thanks for this video 👍
Glad to help
I ordered Aronix high temperature teflon grease. I'll get my mechanic to use this. I zlos ordered teflon tape for when my Powerflex bushes arrive. I will get the front and rear wishbones by the mechanic, the arb's I'll probably fit myself and the rear beam ones done my rhe mechanic also. I only drive around 6k kilometres a year, if that.
There is an Australian company by the name of superpro. They have a lifetime warranty on their poly bushings against squeaks and other problems. They also claim they will never need maintenance
“SuperPro bushings use a proprietary polyurethane mix that allows for the precise control of a poly bushing with very little impact on NVH. They also have internal geometry designed to retain grease, and a proprietary lube which prevents noise. This means they don't squeak, and require no maintenance (as long as you use the included grease). SuperPro offers a lifetime warranty against squeaking or any other failure on these bushings - even if you race the car, which is basically unheard of in the bushing world!”
Your a good mechanic.
I do high performance on the road all the time with my gy6 scooter.
OCD triggered: all that cleaning and prep and not a single rattle can of Rust-Oleum and black paint for the control arm? 🤷♂️
What’s the Over / Under on you saying ‘’I’m gonna go ahead’’
I'm going to go ahead and say 5 minutes.
0:55 "Keeps suspension geometry as intended" - Bushing deflection has been a design parameter for suspensions since at least 30 years. It's called Elasto-kinematics, e.g. toe-in at the rear under braking is commonly used. You lose that with PU bushings, which can be detrimental to handling, even if the car feels "more tight" to drive.
If you are having trouble with maintenance on PU bushings, try the teflon tape method!
seems like the non stressed point would still be the same, the deflection (toe in under acceleration and toe out during braking would just move less in either direction vs rubber- no?
@@Toys4Life Depends on how the bushing is designed. Take the rear trailing arm bushing on 90s Honda Civics for example: The Whiteline bushing is slotted in front and behind of the center rod, which allows the bushing to flex. If you go for a solid bushing (Energy Suspension and such), the required flex will be no longer there, and the bushing can even bind up leading to snap oversteer.
In that case, the intended behavior of the bushing is "flex" - if you remove that, you are left with the kinematic toe-out under braking and get a very nervous rear end that you can't catch once it goes.
If you happen to own the book "The Automotive Chassis: Engineering Principles" by Reimpell et al., there is a great description of that bushing on page 62.
But that designed in deflection is with stock tires. Anyone going to track is going to be using tires much stickier than stock generating much higher deflection forces.
Using something stiffer like poly means deflection closer to designed specs in that case.
Even on street, most choosing poly will already be running tires wider and softer compound than stock design.
isn't it the opposite? toe out under braking (and toe-in under acceleration)?
@tommyZ06 Not in the rear, there are very few situations where you would want any amount of rear toe-out at all.
Nice presentation Toys. You did a great job at giving the pros and cons.
Appreciate that Sir!
4:40 compressed air gun would clean the bushing ey?
remember that only in abrasive climates. In aussie land we have no salt or heavy corosion (unless right next to sea) and polys last a very long time.
I'm guessing that helps. Even though I live in the Midwest of the United states, this car pretty much never gets driven in winter.
@@Toys4Life maybe I stand corrected then, at least in my experience, nearly all my polls lasted 10yrs but I wasn’t racing and had low mileage.
I think water in general, is going to drastically reduce their effectiveness over time. We definitely get a lot of rain and humid days in the summers, that might contribute to it here.
If deflection of PU bushings is about 1/3 of rubber bushings forces will be a lot stronger on the chassis. Are the long term damages to be expected?
You make a good point. That having been said, If you take a look at the suspension components of a Pontiac fiero compared to something like an '80s Mazda RX7, the fiero is so overbuilt that even with the added stress that the poly would inflict due to its lesser ability to dampen movements to the fiero chassis is negligible compared to how overbuilt it is in my opinion.
Piston skirt anti friction coating on bushing inserts.
The following pertains to energysuspension bushings.
There are a lot of issues with these bushings, some are not manufacturers' fault, others - are. And I am not talking about price - this is something the buyer at least knows in advance.
1. Their claim that all it takes is "some smoke from the bushing to separate the sleeves from rubber" is outright lie. It may be the case with jeep but certainly not with Toyota - you need to torch it for a long time to actually burn rubber off.
2. The fact that they don't provide sleeves with the bushings is simply ridiculous. Especially considering price. In fact, I would not mind paying extra so that I did not have to dicect the old bushings, and the first issue is minor compared to this one. It is pretty common for bolts/sleeves freeze in bushings so it's virtually impossible to separated them from inner bushing sleeves without damaging.
It may not be an issue with jeeps and fords because their bushings are replaced on a regular basis but Toyota bushings last so long that it's practically unavoidable to face this. In my case, the truck is 17 yo with 230,000 miles, and the original bushings were still good. The only reason I had to replace them was installation of lift and JBA upper control arms that required alignment that couldn't be performed because - you guessed it - one bolt and one cam sleeve were frozen. After 17 years in the Midwest and N-E, is should not come as a surprise.
This condition requires a hell of a lot of heating and pounding, pounding and heating, and then it's a real PITA to attach the [original] washers to most likely damaged bushing sleeves.
3. The last issue is design - there are no lubrication means. And don't tell me it's impossible - just look at JBA upper control arms. I installed grease fitting in control arm ears and drilled holes in the bushings to allow grease flow to inner sleeves. Hope it will work.
Overall, bushing material is probably adequate but pure inexcusable greed that prevented the manufacturer from providing lower bushing sleeves and washers (even for extra $$) is beyond ridiculous.
Bottom line: if your vehicle is 10+ yo and has spent that time in places where winter happens every year, expect MAJOR (BIGLY!) hassle installing these bushings. Or - MUCH BETTER OPTION - buy from another manufacture that does provide all necessary coponents and does not force to wash and reuse condoms because reusing bushing sleeves is just as ridiculous as reusing condoms.
Agreed. Only use these for a dry warm weather toy. What is the other manufacturer you speak of?
@@Toys4Life Toyota.
So who makes GOOD aftermarket poly bushings in multiple hardnesses, then?
@@Drunken_Hamster If I knew, I would've bought them.
Just found your channel because I watched your video about headers. Picked up a C5 for a great deal but it has long tube headers that scrape everywhere AND are THE cheapest new ones I could find ($250)!!! So obviously they are garbage and I have to decide if I'm going to spend the money anyway should I just get good long tubes or pay a lot to go back to stock :( ANYWAY great channel keep it up I bet soon you'll get more and more viewers as younger people start being able to afford nice cheap C5s. Also THANK YOU FOR MAKING PLAYLISTS ON YOUR CHANNEL FOR SPECIFIC VEHICLES AND SEPERATING EACH ONE BY APPEARANCE VS MAINTENANCE/PERFORMANCE!!!
Glad you found the channel and thanks for the kind words - much appreciated!
Do the bolt also excluding the threads.
Note poly bush's are bad news in dusty conditions the dust sticks to the lube and makes a grinding paste and wears them out in no time.
I heard Teflon tape eliminates squeaks but never tried it.
I have heard people say that too but - the grease also helps to keep water out and corrosion from forming. Replace it with teflon and it may be squeak free for a while but I would think it would allow water to come in and perform its unpleasant magic.... I just don't see it as a viable solution.
i had mines on 8 years no noise still
Wow, that's totally different than my experience. Do they ever see rain or snow, how many miles do you suppose you have on the car during that time.?
But where are your zerk fittings for re-greasing?
If they gave you the fittings and the channel inside the poly to get to that middle sleeve, it might work but you might want to preheat the lube because it's pretty gooey sticky stuff even at room temp.
Yeah I don’t want to have to do anything like this. I’d rather have the rubber ones and have them fail. So I only have to take it apart once every 7-8 years vs every 2.
You think it would be a good idea to use caliper pin grease? Maybe last longer?
Not sure, worst thing that could happen would be if it attacked the poly, but maybe it be okay.
So I recently put poly bushings in my rear suspension because it was totally clapped out and I couldn’t find rubber. I have the bushings for the front but I have not installed them and when I took my car for a test drive I find that it feels strange like my car doesn’t conform to bumps in the road. It’s not harsh but it almost feels like the rear wants to slide and when I hit a pot hole I swear that I get some air. Is this normal? I have no idea.
I wouldn't think so.
Thats called Binding. I am not sure what kind of vehicle you have but in certain instances poly is no good.
@@gnfanatic9139 thanks, it ended up being an issue with alignment. I had to make a couple adjustments and I’m good now but I really appreciate the information
Wonder if hi temp marine grease would work better???
Possibly, so long as it doesn't attack the Polly?
I suppose I'll be there one to say it, 🙄
Damn nice vice you got there boss 💪🏻🇺🇸😎
I have a 1983 280ZX, I stick with stock rubber bushings. I don't do track driving (no turning left all day in an oval nonsense)
you dont need to maintance "squeek" every year, if you lern to put around the sleeve teflon tape. Well at least it should got a chance, learned it from different channel when i am interested about to use it as well.
You will find more if you start searching for teflon tape and the polyurethane bushings.
Honestly - it seems like a hack fix to me. I can see how you can wrap it around a sway bar and use the split bushing over that. I am not envisioning how y ou drive the sleeve into the control arm bushing without shearing off and leaving the teflon tape outside of the bushing. It is a pretty snug fit. LINK to vid of someone doing it?
@@Toys4Life yeah i will find it for you today and send a link.
He was abble to manage it with nece prepared tape around. There is a bit of skill to make it. He did nice and tight wrap around in one of layer.
So I have a question, I can came across your video trying to see what these bushings were about and honestly they fit my bill but the havinbg to re lube them part is getting to me as im looking for rear subframe bushing, not control arms or anything of that sort. Im not trying to remove my rear subframe every two years so its that on all bushings made of this or do I not have to re lube sub frame bushings every two years?
Correct, since the subframe isn't moving, the bushings won't squeak.
Good choice using road america in your video. Donyou live near RA?
I'm about 5 hours away, I should visit that place. I've never been there, yet!!!
This is really informative- thanks for posting. As rubber absorbs, or deflects more, and polies don't; could polies cause metal fatigue at the mounts?
Unlikely IMO in a gm product. I have seen some really flimsy control arms on some 80's Mazda's that I would think it may be a possibility.
You can buy poly bushings that are with center connected to the poly itself. You get best of both worlds, longevity of poly, maintenance free from rubber world.
Sounds interesting, link?
What if you want less noise and vibration than stock
Rubber is going to be about the softest bushing material that will do the job I would think...
Wrap Teflon tape around the Bushing and metal sleeve along with that clear sticky grease and you shouldn't have squeaky bushings again EVER!!!
لماذا مصانعين البولي يوريثان لا يجعلونها مثل المطاطية تماماً بالشكل ؟
آسف لكنني لست متأكدا.
i did not know this. And her ei was about to take my 12yr old car and about to get rid of all the bushings... I guess now I'll just do a few bushings
Yeah, I would go rubber unless you got some that are under tremendous Force.
Do you not use silicone paste as a lubricant? That's the proper lubricant for polyurethane suspension parts. I don't think silicone paste dries out if I'm not mistaken.
Yes, I believe so. I use energy suspensions poly lube which works great for about a year or three depending on conditions.
@@Toys4Life Even with using their lubricant, the bushings will start to squeak after a year or two? I can't find rubber bushings for my C5 and really don't want to deal with the squeaking!
@@Toys4Life Energy suspensions default grease is silicone based, I've messaged them when I ran out of the lube doing my rear subframe bushings on my Silvia, they said that any Silicone based grease works just fine like theirs!, I used Brake parts silicone based lube and after 2-3 years no squeaks yet (No winter driving, Sunny Sunday type of car)
Warmth and minimal moisture seems to help for sure!
What about Poly with infused graphite?
Link?
I really appreciate this video, thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful!
Delrin AF is self lubricanting, or for another thousand completely maintenance free you can just go monoball. Get some good shocks. Good for life. 0 maintenance
I think I would only use those if I was going to track the car as it's main use. As it is, my C5 is 99% Street.
Where to buy those bushing?
Summit racing.
The hi tek word for the gooey stuff is POOKY. :)
Well ding dang it... I learned sy today! Thanks for that!!
Can I take a 3800 series 2 out of anything?
Pretty much.
Another trick to avoid squeaking is permatex ceramic brake grease (the purple stuff). It's not cheap, but it works.
How did somebody try that, interesting?
I heard that if you wrap the bushing with a single layer of Teflon tape and the mounting surface where it mounts on sway bars, you will have no noise. You do that and then apply grease and multiple people report no squeaks a long time after. I think a good strategy would be to first treat the sway bar bushing contact points with a Teflon spray or even a ceramic coating. Then add the tape and the grease and I think if you do this you will have no future issues with noise.
That might work with sway bars, but I don't think the air ambushings, it's more of a press fit as opposed to an open up the bushing and slide it over this way bar fit.
@@Toys4Life this guy has a great explanation on what to do:
ua-cam.com/video/rdZ1EZcGMS0/v-deo.html
Thanks for making this video!
Thanks for the thanks! If it helps a few people out, it makes it worth it!
thak you you have save my life
I drilled and added grease fittings to my lower A frame arms and grease the bushings with Lucas Red and Tacky
lithium grease. Your bushing will last years longer. It was 10 years since install and its still better than any rubber bushing . Just don’t use petroleum grease. the little tube of silicone grease they give you is a joke. It won’t last long. If you grease the car regularly there is no need for the teflon tape trick.
I do at least the sway bar links
Agreed - especially if you add a rear SB as well to the 84-87 Fiero. They didn't come with one for some reason! The 88 did.
Thank you
Very welcome! Thanks for commenting!
Good review!
Thank you sir!
That clear grease for anyone wondering is silicone grease.
Energy suspension formula 5 is some tacky sticky stuff. I couldn't find what's in it so I'll take your word for it that's got silicone but it's not like normal silicon grease.
Bro, use Formula 5 to grease these. You will never ever hear any squeak again.
No teflon needed.
Hope it helps
Pretty sure that is the "lube" they come with.
@@Toys4Life Absolutely not. The stock lube is sicilon based and it washes out really fast thats why people start getting squeak sounds after minor use. I've did my homework. People used different techniques to stop it like using teflon and stuff, but this method is the easiest and the most perfect one for long term use.
I really hope i helped you and next time, give it a shot mate. You will thank me later :)
I appreciate your efforts! I'm going to go look I think I still have a small tube in my shop of what came in the box. I think it's the same stuff but I'll get back to you.
2:42 the need to maintain the bushes every year or two: thank you, THANK YOU, I'm so glad I found this video and you pointed this out. The 'hate' I got for saying much the same thing (here: ua-cam.com/users/clipUgkxKMmYnfDcpBFwkYXbc71b5KsXAoPoXs1f?si=j-tKXapC1RJxtc8f) - oh boy!
Nice video!
Thanks big Jay!
Do you notice less vibration from poly bushings over time or stays the same? Basically curious if they “break in” at all
I don't believe they break in.
Suspension is intended to MOVE, which is what rubber allows, and what poly does not. That's why cars come with rubber bushes.
I think cars come with rubber bushings for the majority of people who just want a soft quiet ride. Serious track people will definitely want something harder than rubber like poly or other material to keep the suspension geometry as it should be.
You can't tell that his suspension still moves IN THE INTENDED MANNER ONLY perfectly normal? Damn, better get your eyes checked. The point of stiffer bushings (of any given material) is to prevent FLEX and DEFLECTION. AKA the unwanted movement that misaligns components and causes issues like excessive camber and toe in turns, or wheel hop on acceleration.
Heard of solid metal bushings? Used in race cars. Zero deflection, but suspension still articulates.
Think of a motorcycle chain. Its just a bunch of tiny metal bushings. Moving around a lot faster and more often than any suspension.
Poly attempts to be middle ground between solid bushings that works by friction, and rubber bushings that work by stretching. The video does an excellent job describing how well they accomplish that, and the compromises involved.
Thanks for this video. Now I'm sure, I'll stick with rubber.
These are perfect only for subframes, not control arms.
Get black poly, not red, its got graphite in it to prevent squeaks
To bad they can't install some Zerc heads on those bushings instead of taking them apart all the time.
Why they don't is beyond me. I need to look into that further. Would need a dedicated small grease gun for the special non petroleum grease but that is no biggie compared to the current re-lube procedure!!!
im going with polyurethane because im going to be putting my car on coilovers an slamming the shit out of it lol. though i am just doing it for the rear suspension on a 98 toyota XLS .
i was trying to replace the trailing arms on it an the bolt had seized with the old bushing so i cut that shit an burnt the old bushing out ahah
We just need a lube port to squeeze out the old grease with new grease in 30 seconds.
I believe it's possible on most applications to drill, tap and install a zerk fitting. There are some poly bushings that incorporate the grease fitting.
I don't reckon this is a very good review. Let me have a go, cause I use PU in every day drivers, and thank god the stuff became available.
First, PU is much more cost effective and preserves ride quality.
Rubber bushings are really expensive and deteriorate quickly. Especially on bad roads, and especially if you have a heavy car or truck. Anyone who changes their own bushings knows the exorbitant price of a bit of crap rubber from Mexico or China. PU bushings are cheaper in the first place - opften a quarter or a third of the cost - and last for ages.
Converting to PU leaves SO MUCH MORE MONEY IN YOUR WALLET. Especially when you just buy the PU and use the original inserts and sleeves.
Rubber bushings can crack straight up, especially if some guy has had them in his shop for ages. You know you are driving around with good bushings with the PU, even if you hit a pothole wanted to push your strut through the bonnet first day you put them in. They give you confidence.
You can get different hardness too, for example from Shore 40 to Shore 80, so if you found the ones you installed make a rough ride you don't like, buy or make some softer ones.
You are pulling your car apart to change bushings all the time anyway if you go with rubber, so the service interval for the PU is no hassle. You want to be pulling steering and suspension apart that often anyways to check everything is A1.
The only downsides are that they are not available for all cars, and that you have to make your own sometimes; that the liquid form isn't something you want to be sucking the fumes off while you are working; and that parts will have to be modified in some cases because the busing is not bonded to the insert or sleeve to prevent lateral movement.
A final advantage is that if you do make your own custom sleeves and press or weld them in, changing the bushings next time around requires a lot less effort because you only have to pop the soft part in and out, not press sleeves.
Thanks for your input!
So the only downside is noise, bought about by the fact that you didn't know about the PTFE tape trick that has been known about for decades...
Yep, you're not the first one to bring up the PTFE tape trick. I may try it but I have serious doubts about how well it will hold up in real world daily driving.
I was under the impression these were fit and forget self lubricating
No sir. That would be the stock rubber style.