I find SITCH AND ADAM's point about minority groups to be bullshit. There are good and bad actors, characters etc of every group in movies yet no one ever says "they put a white guy in this media for representation" even though they do. I'm reminded of that guy that got pissed that Parasite won over Joker. Asmongold himself has said a number of times he wants to play games as a white man. Yet there is this extra level when it comes to POC or women (non sexualized women to be clear). On the topic of reparations I don't think it's going to happen but the idea that it was so long ago is a very bad talking point. I'm about the same age as you and both of my parents were adults when the civil rights act was past. On top of that just because the law changed doesn't mean that the actions did. There have been a number of cases where banks wouldn't give people loans due to their skin color and this is well into the 2010/20. Also I'd bring up the Japanese, the government gave them Reparations in the 80s for what happened in the 40s. And there are a ton of black people that faced Jim crow etc still alive. He says it doesn't make sense for the government too help black families when it was the government power that kept black families from taking part in these programs to begin with, look at what happened to the black people that fought during WW2 they came back and got fucked over by the government. So even if it's not going to happen acting like there isn't reason for it is just dishonest.
A quick glance at the Tavistock Clinic and puberty blockers, Tavistock seems to be a case of them simply being overwhelmed. They were one clinic for the entirety of England. They had waiting lists for YEARS. They probably just became complacent because they were trying to get through that waiting list and didn't follow what Hutch talks about with a more methodical approach. This is what led to situations like Keira Bell. On puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria, the treatment was proposed in the 90s in the Netherlands and by the early 00s there were several patients that had started using them and numbers continued to grow. So, just because it wasn't happening in the US doesn't mean it wasn't happening.
It is incredibly cringe and its made their show way worse in the last couple years. I really do like their show and have listened for 5 years or so, and he has become like fundamentally disrespectful to guests a lot of the time and he is the PRODUCER, he controls which guests he has on, which always aggrivates the fuck out of me. Dont bring someone on if you arent willing to meet them where they are at
@CakesWarden yeah and its shitty because he wasnt always like that. I think he felt jumped by destiny in that conversation, and now absolutely haaaates anyone vaguely near that orbit
@@Grassroots_Hegemon nah it wasn’t Destiny. He was unhinged way before that. See their “debate” with Christian Watson. Disrespectful doesn’t even come close. He’s not well.
10:25 If people are immediately making assumptions the moment they see a woman or LGBT character in media then that is their problem for being consumed by these dumb culture war issues. Any normal, non-terminally online person can easily make the distinction between a well written, authentic character and a character who's persona is second to their identity. If you are spamming "DEI" in chat anytime there's a female protagonist in a video game then you are completely lost in the sauce.
The reason they make these assumptions is because of wokeness. They weren't complaining about these characters until leftist came in and made it an issue
It's funny, I'm rewatching the show Once Upon a Time with my mom, and we just noticed yesterday that (excluding maybe some background characters) in 4 seasons there have been about 5 black people and 4 of them were villains, and the last one is a damsel in distress type who spends most of the arc that she is in literally frozen in ice (fridged.)
Well, I think there’s more at play than simply assuming all of asmongolds chat are legitimately angry about a female protagonist. I’d say probably half of them do, but also it’s the obvious sh*tposty answer to spam DEI in the chat. It’s like reactionary trolling in response to so many companies highlighting diversity and kind of virtue signaling about inclusion. (Blizzard for example often advertises the diversity and inclusion in their games and in the company and asmongolds fans are mostly fans/anti-fans of blizzard)
Hutch you should know that Adam does NOT like being pressed for any kind of details or specifics as we learned when Conor tried to press him multiple times.
@@katzhai0000 that was what actually made me unsubscribe from them. They had been going down hill for awhile but after seeing Adam start picking these fights on Twitter only to refuse to ever talk about it on stream & when he chose to it was only to purity test Connor & call him a fake conservative because he won't bend the knee to trump. Adam was never smart but he was at least fun & willing to have interesting conversations a few years ago. Now he just seems to be an angry ball of spite.
@@iamnotinvolved1309Counter Connor aka Counterpoints. He used to be a regular guest on their show & hangs with Destiny sometimes. He also has a Warhammer 40k channel. He has become very controversial this last year because since he is an anti maga pro America conservative he agreed to help Progressive victory with an event to help people get registered to vote. I highly respect his principled stance & Adam basically burned all his centrist cred in that argument.
Adam is so unbelievably evasive and smug yet clearly triggered by anyone who has a viewpoint to the left of him. This whole "I don't care but clearly the left wing tilts me" attitude is beyond cringy.
The irony thing of the "to make Hutch cry" thing is, when Obama was first running, we had a mock election at our school. I remember having friends say they were gonna "vote against" Obama cuz they wanted to see this kid who said he was gay cry. Now I get that middle schoolers like most kids are kinda asshats, but it's sad seeing how as I grew up the mentality didn't change. I'm almost 30, these folks are older than me, and are acting like the children I knew in middle school. Wow
You should probably not even talk to Adam anymore. He's so disengaged and more concerned bout getting in zingers than actually discussing anything. Sitch at least had a position to discuss, although it was a bad one. His position was essentially "People are conditioned to think any diversity is bad and woke, so you should just stop hiring marginalized people." Hutch pretty much nailed it and they just avoided the question: You are assuming diversity is always just tokenism. How can you ever hire a black or gay actor if even if they're the best for the role based on merit? The assumption is it was a DEI hire and that is inherently bad because people have preconceived notions.
Adam and sitch are unbearable in this. I think they are smart but only because they are actively working to be dishonest during this whole conversation. They create and borrow arguments that people in their audience use to pretend to have integrity or are centrists but that is very far from the truth.
Diversity is only forced if the story is supposed to be a highly realistic time period tale or based on mythology / set identity lore, and when "Woke" means whatever you want it to mean the word ends up meaning nothing at all.
I don’t even agree with your definition of forced. Only crazy people accuse Hamilton of being “forced diversity” because they have black people playing people who were originally white
Only people who treated white Cleopatra as bad as black Cleopatra can complain about accuracy. The right never cared about white Moses, white Egyptian gods, an Irish Zeus and countless more. What they're thinking is "they're taking white jobs" and that's it.
Just wanna make a quick comment as a Transgirl on the idea of taking hormone blockers as a young teenager. I **wish** I had been able to get on blockers younger than I did. I wasn't able to get on them until 22, and it meant there were a lot of things male puberty does that you can't undo that I **hate** about myself. I was raised in a household that made me terrified to even talk about it until I moved out after college (because I wasn't in a household that could afford anything other than the community college, so I did college while still at home). Yet I had signs of being trans as young as 5 that I can personally remember, I knew I was trans by 14, and had basically committed to transitioning by 16. There were people who told me it was a 'phase' or didn't know what I really wanted, and here I am, at 30, still identifying as a woman, and going by the name I prefer and pronouns at work and among friends. (continued in replies to answer some of the other topics brought up in further detail)
Also, to the "Would you take a pill to solve it and not be dysphoric" question, I personally wouldn't take it. While it would fix that issue, first, I don't think it would make me happy. I think it might be one of those things, where removing sadness or pain, doesn't make someone happy. Second, I've learned a lot about myself, and how I view the world from having to deal with my transition, and honestly, its made me a stronger and better person. Now, would I take a pill to transition instantly without the long path for it, hmmm, that's a tougher one, because I think while I would have been happy with it, or at least happier than just not having dysphoria, missing out on growing as a person would have its negative consequences. (Though it would save so much money) I do wish there was a way to reverse the effects of male puberty though, its definitely much harder dealing with it after the fact. Like, I don't think Adam honestly understands how much male puberty does to the body. It changes so much. (Like, a super simple thing that most people forget about, dear god I hate having facial hair and having to shave it daily. Obviously not all men have heavy facial hair growth, but my family line does, and so I have to do it every single day, and still get evening shadow every day. Before puberty, I obviously didn't have facial hair growth, and had I been on blockers before that, I might have avoided this issue. Laser Hair Removal exists, but isn't cheap, and often isn't covered or assisted by insurances since its considered to be a 'cosmetic' surgery in many places and thus not important, despite how damaging it can be to a transwoman's mental state due to dysphoria.) In regards to knowing how I knew before I had gone through puberty, I got dysphoria being compared to boys, being called one, the modern expectations of one, etc. I also personally loved wearing dresses and skirts even then, which obviously men can do, but its different IMO. I also spent a very large amount of time interacting and playing with other girls my age, often over boys if given the chance. When playing games, both irl and in videogames, I almost always picked the female option, even for minor differences, not just to look at a 'sexy' model like some men do (I did it in DND too, I don't think I ever once had a male character in all my DND sessions), and one thing that's a bit less thought of in mainstream conversations, but I **hated** my birthname, even at the age of like, 8, and would use literally anything else, or would try to come up with nicknames that had nothing to do with it to avoid it. I believe at the time I think it was just to get away from it, because I didn't tend to pick female names instead, but there were a few times I tried to go by my incredibly gender neutral middle name instead of my first name, before my attempts were stifled by family. In terms of Trans stuff being put in with Gay stuff, you actually did it justice in talking about why they end up in the same group. The 'explosion' of people coming out of trans, but it being specifically more transmen coming out than transwomen, I think is the societal perception on Female to Male transitions being a much more stigmatized thing. The way young girls form social groups and make friends, it means that the societal pressures of conforming to the norm are much stronger when it comes to things like this. As someone who dealt with the other side of the coin, sure I was feminine, but it was often just put off by people as being socially awkward, or a nerd/geek, rather than being super feminine. But a 'girl' who leans into more masculine tendencies is often ostracized by their peers, or bullied by those who do follow the norms, much more heavily. I'm not saying it doesn't happen on both sides, but it is much more common with transmen than transwomen. Adam seems to make a lot of arguments in bad faith though, specifically off this single clinic, which doesn't encompass the broad spectrum of the way things work. He's far too focused on one thing, and seems to be missing the bigger picture. Like I'm pretty sure EVERY SINGLE clinic and place I went to took multiple visits, therapist visits, constant follow-up visits even after getting on HRT, etc. And this is at AGE 22! Literally a legal adult and living on my own, and they still took their time to make sure I knew what I was signing up for. It seems like this specific clinic had bigger issues, and saying its the norm for the entire system is such an unfair way to argue the topic. Plus, while not my experience, I have trans friends who it took YEARS to get on blockers, between clinics having few staff that actually dealt with trans issues, and thus having month long waiting lists, or some doctors requiring multiple letters from therapists to even SEE a doctor about transitioning medically. Plus, that doesn't even bring up how EXPENSIVE it is. Hormones in general are pretty pricey, especially the blockers, without good insurance, and the surgeries for almost anything you can do for transitioning are incredibly expensive ((like bottom surgery, last I checked a few years ago, is 20k on the LOWEST estimates)), and often require weeks off for recovery, and can require very large travel expenses if nobody in your area does them, which is a pretty common occurrence, at least in the US. At the time when I was looking at it while in highschool, there was ONE doctor in my entire state (and one of the 15 biggest ones) who did transition surgeries, and the next closest was I believe 2 or 3 states over.
Thanks for sharing all that, it's important to hear from someone who didn't have the puberty blockers perspective and the thoroughness of when being assessed. Also the costs of hormones I hadn't considered either. I also agree that Adam & Sitch have a narrow view and gloss over nuance when discussing cultural differences. your post was really informative, thanks for your insight.
@@andrewb6647 No problem! I feel like a lot of the hate and fear trans people get is often due to lack of actual information, and also from just not knowing anybody who is trans. I had a few coworkers who were transphobic at first, but realized I was just a normal person who just wanted to use a different name and be called a girl, and outside of that I was pretty chill, which made them reconsider what they had thought about trans people a bit. Fear of the unknown is a big thing, and it doesn't help when people push false narratives to promote that fear. I hear the "Transwomen are just men who want to sneak into women's restrooms to assault them" pushed far too much as a talking point. Hate to break it to them, but honestly, anyone going into women's restrooms to do that was going to do it regardless of what gender they want to be, and says more about the person making the argument than actual trans people (like I've heard the argument made by people that if they could have pretended to be a girl to get into women's restrooms as a teenage boy they would and ugh, that's disgusting.) Personally I'm terrified of going into men's bathrooms and being assaulted by men for being trans, which is a constant stressor in certain counties in the US for sure.
"Generations ago" like come on, there are still people alive today that lived through segregation. It's not like we are talking about the witch trails or the crusades here, IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO ACTUALLY.
Women were only allowed to have their own bank accounts in 1974. The stonewall riots were 1969. Gay marriage was only legalized in 2015. Hell, one of the current presidential candidates is claiming that migrants eat pets, something straight from the fucking 1924, and is getting people to go along with that lie. The claim that this shit happened "so long ago" when it's still happening right now in our current lifetimes just shows how absolutely dishonest and full of shit these people are.
6:52 Their concept of what woke is, and why company's put non straight white men as key characters in media is inherently ignorant/bigoted. Make the assumption that a character is shallow/hollow based on their sheer existence? Yeah, that's your personal - most likely politically driven - bias based on feelings, not substance. I find both of these guys - maybe less so Sitch although I do find him to be bias - lack logic in their argument, because the concept of tokenism in this context is really subjective. This isn't some kind of legislated need to give people a lift up due to discrimination, these are deliberate decisions and stories that they are choosing to produce for gaming... They can't fathom that these storylines, people, characters, are valid; qualified; they're simply chosen because of their identities and nothing else. If you can't see how that's ignorant than you really should seek some therapy, to be honest. The lack of even paying attention to what Hutch is saying already shows that they aren't willing to have an honest discussion; just posturing and peddling their perspective with no consideration for the processes at hand - just assumptions that the choices are empty and meaningless without any substantial evidence.
It's not about videos games, TV shows, and movies anymore. Wh1t3s will become a minority in the US by 2045. Right-wing politics is supposed to be downstream from preventing this from happening.
Sitch: People believe they’re sacrificing story for diversity. Hutch: “I don’t think it’s well founded in this case.” Sitch: “Well, we don’t know we haven’t played the game yet.” He’s either biased or an idiot.
I don't even understand the argument against representation in movies, games, etc. Why can't the creator make any storyline they want even if the quality is bad. Is the idea that these creators are making all these decisions with the specific purpose of preventing a white person from getting a job? To me that would be the only possible issue but the idea that is happening is bat shit crazy.
I think it's pretty telling that Adam and sitch can never argue their beliefs alone. They always need to tag team debate any opposition bc they know that they can't do it on their own. They need someone to bail them or change the subject when shits going south bc they are wrong on so many facts of the matter constantly.
Him saying "I was reading chat, I wasn't even paying attention to you" so early on would have tilted me. Fell flat if it was a joke, and I don't think it was
If movie/game/show is good then it’s not woke. If it’s bad then it’s woke and the black characters fault. If lord of the rings show was really good nobody would mention the black elves
Reminds me of the news out of Pixar after the last round of layoffs; Inside out 2 had an entire department whose job it was to "make sure the main character didn't seem gay" as the higher-ups blamed Lightyear's failure on the same-sex kiss that was in that movie (rather than admitting that they made a bad movie.)
@@michaelmaguire4147 You're being disingenuous as hell. We all know that conservatives made a huge culture-war issue out of the same-sex kiss in Lightyear. It shouldn't be surprising that Disney would want to avoid another similar controversy in the future.
Yea but the cringe right literally complains about every single thing now rings of power is actually pretty good. And why is it that when a show with white writers or actors or representation is bad it’s just bad but when any minority is involved at all it’s part of a political agenda? They made samurai champion years and years ago. Before the conservatards were given the idea to shout ‘woke! Dei!’ And pretend they know how to analyze media beyond the depth of their own nose. If that show were bad it wouldn’t be because it was woke. It would just be bad.
Idk why my comment didn’t post but I’m gonna try again This is wrong. If anything with white representation tanks, it tanks. If anything with anything resembling minority representation tanks, it’s DEI, wokeism, tokenism! Even if the writer is Bi or some such bs. They made Afro samurai an era where if it failed it wouldn’t have been a failure of woke culture. It would’ve just failed. Also rings of power is doing good. People on the right complain about literally everything any time there is any minority in a lead role of these big IPs as a knee jerk reaction. You literally start complaining the day the trailer drops. Even if the show was bad, it could just be bad. It’s not inherent to making the choice of having dark elves. All that has been accomplished is that this has given people on the right a canned response to media that lets them pretend like they know anything about analyzing anything and feel smarter. ‘The writing was bad’ okay thank you for your contribution to the conversation
It's just like the concord game, they made like 10 errors with that game but people are just crying woke. Never mind how there are a number of other games out that are the same thing but better, never mind the price point, never mind the live service, nope it's all wokeness.
BLM were protesting aggressive as well as fatal policing, this was during a presidency that encouraged cops to "be a bit rougher when making an arrest." Sitch was too focused on cop related fatality data ignoring the aggressive policing problem at the time.
But even that wasn’t an issue. Black suspects are more likely to resist arrest and assault police, so you’ll of course see more cases of police being “aggressive” with black suspects. And I disagree about what people were “protesting”(rioting) for. They were out there for shootings 99% of the time. To make it even worse, there’s not been a single racially motivated police shooting in years. And basically all of the police shootings people rioted over were justified.
@@darklyripley6138 who is the source of the stats of resisting arrest, the cops? there are videos of them escalating situations with their aggressive approach and arresting people for resisting when it's evident they're not resisting. Black people are more likely to be pulled over, and racial profiling isn't a fallacy. Did trump tell cops to be rougher when making an arrest ? And bc you claim all cop shootings of blacks were justified? Look up Walter Scott or Eric Garner choked for selling loose cigarettes. Also you say the protest was 99% bc of shootings, where did you get that stat? George Floyd protests wasn't bc he was shot? His neck was knelt on for 9 minutes.
That exact black samurai is in Nioh and Sekiro because of how unique and special he is in literal historical context to Japan, Nobunaga had a black guy around, that was insane for the time
The debate around him is if he was an actual samurai or not, dude existed and was a badass but we have no clue if he was actually ever given any sort of rank because of contradictory sources from the period. Problem is the people you see getting upset arent when Shogun is ahistorical and the dumbest part is they are both historical fiction.
Exactly @TheKnizzine almost no fiction is completely historically accurate in any way at all. We are basing it on assumptions that come with our current perceptions.
@@TheKnizzine I actually have a good friend that is pretty well-versed in the subject. He admits that while there isn't a lot of good written records bout his status as a samurai there is enough physical evidence to more or less confirm he was. His armor and chosen weapon from what I understand survive to this day as well a partial remains of the mask he wore into battle. I missed a good chuck of the lecture he gave that day in another friend's stream but it seems most average japanese see Yasuke as samurai.
This viewpoint also contradicts the idea of "ugly women in games". Take stellar blade, is it DEI because you play as a woman or is it fine because the woman is hot?
Stellar Blade was viciously attacked exactly because it refused to play the whole "women in games must be ugly now" woke dogma. Get your facts straight.
@@Mant111 So is it a good game even if you have to play as a woman? Is it not the Feminizing video games even though you have to pick which skirt matches her blouse?
Its crazy to me how much I loved Sitch and Adam. Funny thing is I found Adam on Modern Day Debate, and thought he was cool enough to follow. Then I listened every Sunday, start to finish and anyone who knows how long those shows are knows how crazy I am.. Now, its hard for me to sit through this video. I still like Sitch, but I cannot stand Adam. Not sure why happened to him or he was just good at hiding it
Ever since I heard him, way back when Jordan Peterson was starting his grift, Adam was there to interpret him in the best possible light so I got the gist of his character at that time.
The defining of wokeness as essentially being communism is absolutely wild. Wokeness definitely means “minorities are in it” to some people, but I try to be more charitable to the anti woke side and define it as “promoting left leaning social issues”. If you’re going to define wokeness is anti democratic, fuck it, might as well just define anti-wokeness as racism.
At the 12 minute mark and the best I can summarize Sitch's perspective is that the people who are primed to have reactionary responses to marginalized people are not at fault of their own actions, and instead it's actually the fault of those helping marginalized people. Cause every time he keeps deflecting to "well cause affirmative action exists" even though affirmative action does not subvert merit. It's basically just "it's your fault I'm having a reactionary response," no accountability to the people who are factually wrong and have knee jerk bigoted responses. That's what happened with the live action Little Mermaid, even though the director is quoted with having chosen Halle Bailey because of her skills as a singer. Literally chosen on merit. People like Adam and Sitch know what they're doing, purposely treating the anti-woke response as equal and valid when we already know and see that a majority of the time it is a surface level knee jerk response to seeing any marginalized group. Literally already explained and proven by Hutch at the start with the Ghost of Yotei reactions.
12:30 Hutch rightfully asks for the actual issue to be explained Sitch directly admits that even if the overall product, experience, game, story, etc is not actually negatively effected by the perceived inclusion of "politics", just the fact that these people perceive it as a bad thing is enough. From that alone you shouldn't need to take these people seriously. They just blame others for the the problems they themselves make up, and take no responsibility for their actions.
13:34 Hutch is doing the right thing here pressing them to provide the details. They are the ones claiming DEI is the issue, they should be the ones to bring evidence to support their claim. Hutch rightfully pointed out that they claim to be okay with focusing on diverse hiring, as long as it doesn't negatively effect the result. And instead of collecting evidence along the way to make the claim that DEI is bad, we now see here with Adam that he's starting at the solution "let's find bad writers" and working backwards to find evidence to back his claim. This is the typical fashion of someone who is making a claim without proof.
35:40 These people only ever bring up Appalachia as a response, never as actively showing concern for them. The only time they ever bring up the poor whites is whenever people talk about how disproportionately poor minorities are hurt. And then if you agree with them and bring up the class issue and that we should help all the poor and homeless regardless of race, they'll call it socialism. They don't actually care, it's only ever a talking point for them.
49:00 I mean these guys keep giving the game away with this stuff. Framing it as a needed cultural shift to promote having families, rather than the underlying issue of it's damn expensive to have kids. Child care especially, but extra groceries, baby supplies; their focus on a "cultural change" doesn't necessarily fix the underlying issues especially when right wing framework typical does this false equivalency. Liberals and lefties want better support for these things because it helps people overall, and without needing to frame it as a "cultural change". It's just hiding regressive views within a facade of caring for people.
I actually disagree with his talk about that Last Of Us episode. I think the fact that they weren’t straight greatly changes the dynamics of the beginning of their relationship. It starts with one man meeting another man, each of them thinking they might get killed/robbed. That same dynamic wouldn’t play the same if it was a man and woman. And then the romantic interest starts when one character lets his walls down and accept the fact that he likes men. Again, it’s a big difference between how a hetero couple would have been.
Important to note 2. At the time of the apocalypse in the last of us they woudint have been able to get married (was before the Supreme Court date). So it reflects even more on the theme of that episode that humanity can still be found in the apocalypse (since ther able to do something they codint do openly before the apocalypse) and that due to the apocalypse that humanity is slowly dying.(best shown that before the apocalypse he could get meds to live but now he obviously cant) Them being gay emphasize those themes and put extra contrast to both before and after the apocalypse
@@alim5549 a random woman would be less likely to be able to overpower him. They’re inherently viewed as less dangerous, and the seduction element would be seen as more suspicious imo.
Hey man. Just a head's up for next time anyone brings up "Black Samurai" as some sort of DEI "counter-argument". Tell them about the historical Yasuke. Also, remind them Afro Samurai exists, and nobody threw a tantrum over that. Also, Jinzaemon Kumano from Sekiro, a game that is apparently "woke-free," according to the Woke Detector on Steam.
Woke detector is actually wild, I will forever hold that over conservative's heads. If cringe could ever amount to the charge of a human rights violation, it would be that lol.
@alekzgavriel-russo7453 there's more where that came from. There's a "No Alphabets" mod for BG3 that restores it to a "historically accurate medieval aesthetic." This includes gender swapping one member of all gay couples or changing hair colors to natural colors instead of what they perceive as "woke dyes." Needless to say, it doesn't take long to find someone with Hitler as their profile photo in that comment section.
@@MooreGravyif every time you see a black person or woman working and assume they were only hired to improve diversity, what you're saying is you only think white men are qualified for anything.
@@MooreGravyWhat? If you intentionally didn’t hire women for reasons and then you realize that needing to fix it it would require you to intentionally hire women. Im failing to see how there’s two wrongs in here. You don’t have to exclude others while enacting a process that focuses on fixing a problem. So you can still hire men while focusing on recruiting and hiring women.
@@AnnoDomini19XX The way I read it was an individual intentionally wasn't hired because of their gender, skin color, or both. So then, or now, you hire someone BECAUSE of their gender or skin color. How is this not wrong and essentially the same thing? Twice.
Oh god. Adam infuriates me on this. Refuses to define woke & says we don't need to define woke. Now he is disagreeing with the popular definition of woke. Adam cant even define tokenism accurately. Sitch's is at least coherent but I don't think most people would ever subscribe to it. This discourse is so dumb. There is literally no swapping in Ghosts it was never established as a franchise before this. And AC is even dumber AC has never cared about historical accuracy. And the only on controversy around the person they are writing fanfiction for isn't whether he is black or not but whether he was ever given the title of samurai.
Watching these people, that are so far removed from my community, talk about issues that affect my community is eye opening, saddening, frustrating and infuriating. It's like they are having a deep dive discussion about a book they all haven't read but have strong opinions about because they saw the cover art a few times.
Speaking on the generational wealth topic, my go to example is always so many people are effected by their grandpa receiving GI bill benefits and broadly black Americans where not allowed to cash in those same benefits. It makes complete sense to pay those people back
The Sam Jackson example is telling given he's pointing at a time when Hollywood was insanely discriminatory as the shining example of fair unbiased casting. They're just coming at it from the POV that there is absolutely zero white supremacy or discrimination thats worth changing, so every diversity initiative will justly face backlash
It's a bad example because Nick Fury had already been turned into the image of Jackson in the Ultimate universe long before Hollywood cast him in the role.
What happened to Adam? I remember seeing him a few times years ago and he seemed relatively normal and reasonable, and now every time I see him he has this smug af “holier than thou” attitude. It’s really really off putting. I remember thinking “Sitch is kinda crazy but Adam seems normal.” And now it completely flipped.
That's what everyone has been asking. He had been doing poorly on the show for a year now but after the trump assassination attempt he has went full unhinged
Reparations isn’t about specifically “targeting” black people because they’re black. It’s to pay up on a debt that is owed by the government to slaves which was never paid
I like when you asked “is it acceptable to pursue a diverse cast” and they both sort of muttered and mumbled out a “uhh yeah I guess that’s fine” like they hadn’t even considered that some artists might just want that
The Ghost of Yotei stuff I found immensely funny because these anti-woke people defended ghost of tsushima from progressives back when it came out because some people accused it of cultural appropriation while the Anti-woke crowd overlooked how progressive the games plot and characters actually we're. Quite literally one of the main characters is Gay and another one is a Lesbian. The games protag dealt with an internal conflict of going against his conservative upbringing. The first game is woke and that's OK because regardless it was great and this new one looks great.
47:02 lol everyone claims they “mistakes what Peterson has to say” but what you should be asking yourself is if someone who has a base rule in their life such as “be precise in their speech” keeps being mistaken for weird shit, maybe they are either A) saying what they mean or B) aren’t good at being precise
What doesnt make sense about helping a race of people that a country enslaved for hundreds of years and built wealth and infrastructure off of? Its not just the skin color we're talking about hear.
Why are these cis men so obsessed with trans issues. This is the last place people should look to hear this discourse. None of them are informed enough to speak on such issues, none of them are even affected by this shit. And I don't buy such bs as "well, we care about people" or "we don't want these people to experience regrets". Lame part of what turned out to be a pretty lame talk over all. Reminds me of being a teenager and smoking weed w my friends. I guess some people never grow out of that. This is Joe Krogan tier content.
It is always funny to me when these sorts in discussions about things like Representation and Reparations for marginalized people, as they'll always bring up "What about poor white people" and I as the Enlightened Communist would simply answer "If you want to talk about the idea that both white and black people should receive assistance, I advocate for a Socialist System in which all people are made equal." to which these people would scatter away from because they don't actually care about equality.
Any discussion with Adam & Stich has to require a second person to communicate with them. Too often Adam will say shit that Stich will in real time go "Well this is what I think he means" while the sunglasses hut keeps quiet and reads the chat. This show always feels incredibly lopsided with them always going back into their anti-establishment/centrist security blankets.
at the beginning of the debate you should have asked what was cheapened in the story by having a women be the main character? their claim is that the story is only being written the way it is because a women is the main focus of the plot, but the question is if a man was the main character instead but the story line stayed the same would the merit of the story stay the same or increase.
I'm not trying to be mean but I really don't think that these guys are worth your time Hutch. I feel like you constantly have to think of new examples to explain the topic to them. Move on to bigger prey.
I enjoyed the more calm discussion but man Adam really sucks. Sitch seems much more intelligent and willing to move on his position and understands nuance better. Either way, I've been a subscriber since early Machinima days and it's great to have you active on UA-cam again!
I grew up around conservative moral panics all my life, living in the south and maturing in the 90s. Rap music, violence in games and other media, concerns over witchcraft. Hell, the idea that media was making kids gay is still a very recent idea. Nothing about the moral panic here is new. It is all just a repeat of the lefthanded memes: we stopped thinking lefthandedness was a sign of the devil so more people identified as lefthanded. And why wouldn't it make sense that women are more accepting of transitioning? Have these guys looked at voting patterns by gender?
How do you watch Adam when his approach to these conversations is be smug and dismissive and laugh at Hutch and also have some sort of a lackadaisical (I’m so glad I get to use this word in a sentence, it’s so rare) ‘I dont even care that much’ attitude. I actually respect Hutch even more now because I would’ve called Adam out from the get go for his attitude.
@@wren4077 I really like Adam but I personally think he is going thru a bit of a contrarian phase. As an artist living in California (LA I believe) he’s surrounded by very left wing people. I think he’s heard so many progressives talk down to him that he kind of reflexively puts up defenses. I used to live in a very progressive bubble and used to react very similarly when people tried to preach at me. Not really a great quality to have on a political show sure, but he usually takes a back seat during debates and leaves the back and forth to Sitch. Just my opinion as a viewer of theirs for the last few years.
@@Mr.Middleman but it isn’t just a backseat though is it He’s smug about it, only comes in to condescend and patronize. Or almost only for that. A bit late in his life, and culturally, to be going through the anti woke reactionary phase. Also I didn’t know he was an artist. What’s he do?
@@wren4077 Yeah, i can see how he comes off to people who aren’t longtime followers of them, personally I think he’s one of the creators I follow who should get off of twitter (along with Destiny, Pisco and AJW to name a few) Also, he does art like paintings, drawings, stuff like that. All the stuff on his wall behind him is his art I think and I assume he did all of the art for the comic book they’re putting out.
Ok I haven't watched the Acolyte but did Sitch imply that the 'Jedi were the real bad guys' was woke? A big facet of the prequels was how the Jedi...while not 'evil' or maybe 'bad' were definitely lofty, detached and even in some cases actually kind of bad, which Sitch does seem to know to a point. That being said, I haven't seen the Acolyte so maybe they went really ridiculous with it, idk.
I applaud Hutch for being to have an almost 2 hour conversation with two people who think that not thinking is a personality. Every time Adam speaks I straight up lose brain cells. His opinions are incomprehensible
They stand for getting superchats. For a long time they were acting as liberals who thought the left was going too far, whatever that means. After a poll of their audience's political persuasion showed a large majority were right wing, they moved more obviously right but equally uninformed.
Adam saying “there’s a lot of literature” while referencing one book is so hilarious. “there’s a lot of literature” is a phrase that means there are a lot of scientific papers published that back up the claim, its not about fucking books. adam doesn’t understand basic english language
The fact that peolle like sitch and adam immediately think of DEI when they see a woman as a protagonist shows exactly the kind of male as default thinking feminists have been criticising for decades now. Why do the developers need to justify their choice when they make a female protagonist?
These ‘intellectuals’ even in the comments think they can defend their dogshit reactionary takes by saying ‘the writing is bad’ but forgetting that the whining begins the day the trailer drops showing a female lead or whatever else.
Adam and Sitch might think that, but there can also be legitimate reasons to think of DEI when they see that. It is a consequence of DEI. If you have a hiring or writing process that is done, to give roles/jobs to people of a specific race or s'x. Then there is people who is getiing hired becouse of their race or s'x. This means it is hard to tell if someone got the role/job becouse of their marits or becouse of their race or s'x. This in turn means people of that specific race or s'x, who got a role/job becouse of marits will be suspected for getting the role/job becouse thier race or s'x. The writting of stories becomes bad when a moral or political stance becomes too importent in the story, becouse then the political or moral stance take priority over writing a good story and it can easiely become unnatural to the story. This will also be true if someone were to try and prove a consevitive point through a story. The story has to always be the first priority.
@@mikkelsieburg89 no Pushing diversity being the main focus of an endeavor is also valid Not all private companies need to have profit as a goal. If they don’t succeed they don’t succeed. Similarly a tv show doesn’t have to serve the writing. Including diversity in the cast purely for diversity (even though i never see that claim applied validly) is also valid. Inclusive new diverse perspectives, pushing social progress can also be the primary goal and the story just the vehicle If you don’t like it, you can not watch it and not engage with it. If the show doesn’t succeed, they will have less incentive to make it. Which is again assuming that their incentive was success and not the message. All these redditors keep complaining about writing like they have degrees media literacy or filmmaking but the critiques are always ‘bad writing’’forced social messaging’ ‘unnecessary to the story’. Never any depth. Pretty convenient to hide behind these empty remarks and support the status quo. These people make people like me sound like the sjw tankies I hate myself. I hate it.
@@mikkelsieburg89 not to mention, what merits? What is the meritorious criteria of hiring writers? Could it be possible that some writing is more of an art form where one has a unique perspective or contribution to a story than someone else? Not better or worse but different? Like all art, you know? You can dislike it all you want but this crazy idea of ‘hire or merit’ is so weird. Who is being looked over to expressly hire someone for their race or gender? The people that dominate the industry? What about the other writers of the same race and gender? Seems like they didn’t get a job there? Were they not overlooked? Think, Mark. Think.
@@wren4077 Hey Thanks for the replay. I found that vary interesting. To your first comment as to how everything works I actually agree with you on almost everything if not everything you wrote. Our desagreements lies more in what is good or bad. I completely agrre that companies are free to do and priorities anything they wish and if I don't like the product from them i don't have to buy/watch it. A company lives and dies depending on how good they are to make profit. A company that has it's focus on make profit has an advantege over companies who don't. which means the companies who don't is more likely to die. In order for a company to meke the best products the company needs the most talented people it can get. So if a company is racist and don't want to hire the clearly talanted black person over a white man the will loose out, and the compitetion can hire that person instead. This means the company that is racist is comprimising it's ability to make money over being racist, and is therefore more likely to close. This effect is the same with DEI hiring. If you hire someone for being black over a more talented white person you will lose out as well. So over time the company. About incentive. The incentive will always be succes to some extent if they are not succesfull then they will not just be less incentive to send that message they will not have the money to do it. I think their incentive is to succed and their idea of what will bring about that succes is sending that messege. If sending that messege become more importent the the plot of the show, then the quality of the plot will drop and that is what all these people is complaining about. They don't care about the message they care about the plot. Now while this is all interesting is has little to do with what my comment was about. :) Mot to your 2nd. comment. What I ment by merit was not something specific it is just whatever talent they need to do the work they are suppost to. It is to apply it broadly. "What is the meritorious criteria of hiring writers?" Writing. Thier ability to write good storys. There is such a thing as good and bad writers. Writing is a art. Some art do have a unique perspective. But not all art are equally good, somthing is difrent but good some are different but bad. Not all art is going to be top art. I also disagree that DEI bring different perspectives. It is different from 50 years ago sure, but they are all simelar to each other. Wich is why they are so easy reconiseble and becouse they prefer the perspective over the story telling some people dislike it. Nobody likes to have politict pushed down your throat. And now fanally to something that actually adress what a wrote :) My point is a logical one. DEI is there to hire people of different gender or race. If everyone is hired on the bases of their talent. Then the DEI does nothing. The moment DEI hire someone based on gender or race. They don't do so becouse of their talant. You say this. "Who is being looked over to expressly hire someone for their race or gender? The people that dominate the industry?" This is vary telling of your possition. You view people as a collective rather than indiveduals. Yes it is the people that are dominating the industry that is harmed by this. On a cellectiv view it may not seems so bad they are dominating alread right. On a indivedual perspetive hower this is terrible. You didn't get the job not becouse you did not have the talants to make it, but becouse you had the wrong skin color and/or wrong gender. Why should you give a crap about other people with same race and gender having succes in industry. "What about other people with the same gender and race are they been overlooked?" It is being overlook but it is being discrinated agenst, and no they are not being discriminated agenst on bases of gender or race becouse they have the same gender or race. When you understand the critisism this question does not make sense. Why do you call me Mark? :) The point with my oreginal comment was about, how DEI brings negative the social reactions to people DEI is suppost to hire.
Gosh I internally flinch everytime I remind myself that I used to watch Sitch's content pretty regularly. My general skeptism about a lot of stuff insulated me against falling down the pipeline though I get queasy when I remember that I thought he was rather entertaining.
Personally, I don't care for this distinction between the ideas of "Collectivism" versus "Individualism" because society is the result of Collective Action. Society only exists when people work together. But we also treat people as individuals within society, as we punish crime, or as we elevate people for their success. To me, it's not "Collectivist" to want people to pay into a Social Security system, because it benefits people both as a group as well as the individuals within the group. It's also typically better to help entire groups as opposed to simply helping individuals, because elevating groups provides better outcomes for everyone, whereas helping individuals only helps those individuals.
Hey Hutch, small pushback on what you've said. What makes the gay couple story in the Last of Us great is actually that it wouldn't be the same if you swaped genders. The reason why they were both able to easily trust each other so quickly was that both were men and were both physically capable of defending themselves. If you would put woman in the same position you would have a more "creepy" situation where one party is reliant on the other to a bigger extent.
You were supposed to talk about "woke culture in media" but all you ever get with Sitch and Adam is "anti white racism and trans topics" there formula got stale fast
Never heard of these guys before but why is Adam being such an asshole to you? Isn't this his show, why would he treat his guests so disrespectfully? So unprofessional lmao
What this has made me learn that Adam and sitch are just very light grifters who are not as far any way as i thought. I also think the positions they sit on in an attempt to "gotcha" is kinda all they have... Its just a lot weaker all around then i thought.
The problem with anti woke, is that it’s so vague, and no one when you really ask them about it can come up with a specific definition what woke is and why it bothers them. Which is why you spoke about loads of other topics instead of taking about what wokeness is and weather it’s a good thing or a bad thing
Also not too long ago all rolls where white rolls. Even b4 that all rolls was male white rolls. I guess it was DEI when woman could play woman and someone actually black/ brown/ Indian/ natives/Asians could play themselves. WOKENESS!
Except the right misuses the term "tokenism" all the time. A good example is Youngrippa, who will acknowledge that Miles Morales is a well-written, interesting character who adds value to the stories he appears in, but still insists on repeatedly calling him a "token" black character because...Spider-Man is "supposed to be" white or something like that.
@@homelander7742 true. The multiverse is DEI to them. Twisting up terms is very much a right wing mental gymnastics gimmick. From woke, DEI, socialism, just terms to be abused and manipulated to their benefit.
I think what happened to the word woke is that it changed it's meaning(specifically refering to right wing meaning of woke) Because I think in the past, it was more concrete and basically meant something like "if something is woke, it's anti egalitarian aka sexist/racist towards majority groups, aka white cis males by trying to portay those majority groups poorly, while portraying minority groups well" but eventually it became "any progressive ideology/politics in media" aka how Synthetic Man describes woke Another way to describe first definition of woke is kinda how some progressives defined racism, some progressives defined it as racism=prejudice+power, well original woke in right wing circles meant woke=progressive politics+prejudice/hate/streotyping towards majority groups. But eventually the "prejudice towards majority group" part got dissolved, by probably several factors, like the rise of far right like Nick Fuentes who benefit from the term woke being ill defined and vague, to the fact that imho, as a right winger I gotta admit that media made by progressives got better, it slowly started to be less prejudice to majority groups in a good way(even if I think some parts linger) Hence why the original definition of woke is rarely used because it's impossible to argue that a simple inclusion of, say trans flag in Hat in time game, is somehow negative towards majority group, I mean there are even right wingers who are pro trans to some extent so... As for second definition, it's vague but I do think occasionally it's technically correctly used, remember when progressive and conservative have a debate about diversity in media, one of the arguments of progressive is that "diversity is good because it helps normalise marginalised minorities, so they get less hate etc" plus many progressives say the line "all media is political" so technically if someone, say Sweet Baby inc, heavily encourages a developer to add a minority into the game, that's them exercising their politics aka promoting diversity to normalise minorities which leads less hate towards them, so technically you can say that the games are woke if consultant was Sweet Baby Inc. I personally don't use the second definition of woke(and I know some right wingers also don't use second definition), or at least try not to, but just wanted to share my two cents on the topic 😅. Also there's also a ton of grey area in the discussion of what is woke, but my comment is already long enough so hope what I wrote was interesting 😅
This was close to unwatchable, and I try to say that constructively. Woke means something amazingly simple: alert to and concerned about social injustice and discrimination. 3 white guys who refuse to simply accept the definition of the term from the community that coined it is mind boggling, especially Hutch, representing the liberal perspective. Come on Hutch! Black communities created the term. Accept their definition and quit trying to cozy up to other white streamers. It’s an awful look.
@@Mant111 I’m a white guy. It wasn’t meant as a negative. It was meant to differentiate between the community that invented the term and those discussing it in this video.
Just from this convo it’s clear there definition of woke is this nebulous thing you can infer onto anything and extrapolate malicious political messaging from. Sitch’s reasoning for why acolyte was woke was a massive reach.
Re trans: It is really annoying listening to people talk about something they know nothing about (Sitch). At least Hutch had the sensibility to say he didn’t know and would leave it to the people involved.
“YOUR ARGUMENT SUCKS!” Abortion Debate Gets Heated On Twitter Spaces
ua-cam.com/video/11oWenp4Q88/v-deo.html
I find SITCH AND ADAM's point about minority groups to be bullshit. There are good and bad actors, characters etc of every group in movies yet no one ever says "they put a white guy in this media for representation" even though they do. I'm reminded of that guy that got pissed that Parasite won over Joker. Asmongold himself has said a number of times he wants to play games as a white man. Yet there is this extra level when it comes to POC or women (non sexualized women to be clear). On the topic of reparations I don't think it's going to happen but the idea that it was so long ago is a very bad talking point. I'm about the same age as you and both of my parents were adults when the civil rights act was past. On top of that just because the law changed doesn't mean that the actions did. There have been a number of cases where banks wouldn't give people loans due to their skin color and this is well into the 2010/20. Also I'd bring up the Japanese, the government gave them Reparations in the 80s for what happened in the 40s. And there are a ton of black people that faced Jim crow etc still alive. He says it doesn't make sense for the government too help black families when it was the government power that kept black families from taking part in these programs to begin with, look at what happened to the black people that fought during WW2 they came back and got fucked over by the government. So even if it's not going to happen acting like there isn't reason for it is just dishonest.
A quick glance at the Tavistock Clinic and puberty blockers, Tavistock seems to be a case of them simply being overwhelmed. They were one clinic for the entirety of England. They had waiting lists for YEARS. They probably just became complacent because they were trying to get through that waiting list and didn't follow what Hutch talks about with a more methodical approach. This is what led to situations like Keira Bell.
On puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria, the treatment was proposed in the 90s in the Netherlands and by the early 00s there were several patients that had started using them and numbers continued to grow. So, just because it wasn't happening in the US doesn't mean it wasn't happening.
Adam tries so hard to play the "too cool 2 care 😎 " vibe and it's Elon levels of pathetic.
Lmfao! Right? It's like bro.. you wanna conversation or not? Such a fckin loser.
It is incredibly cringe and its made their show way worse in the last couple years. I really do like their show and have listened for 5 years or so, and he has become like fundamentally disrespectful to guests a lot of the time and he is the PRODUCER, he controls which guests he has on, which always aggrivates the fuck out of me. Dont bring someone on if you arent willing to meet them where they are at
Adam is the reason I don’t watch their show anymore.
@CakesWarden yeah and its shitty because he wasnt always like that. I think he felt jumped by destiny in that conversation, and now absolutely haaaates anyone vaguely near that orbit
@@Grassroots_Hegemon nah it wasn’t Destiny. He was unhinged way before that. See their “debate” with Christian Watson. Disrespectful doesn’t even come close. He’s not well.
10:25 If people are immediately making assumptions the moment they see a woman or LGBT character in media then that is their problem for being consumed by these dumb culture war issues. Any normal, non-terminally online person can easily make the distinction between a well written, authentic character and a character who's persona is second to their identity. If you are spamming "DEI" in chat anytime there's a female protagonist in a video game then you are completely lost in the sauce.
Bingo. Rare if ever is one gonna be able to spot that shit right off the bat.
The reason they make these assumptions is because of wokeness. They weren't complaining about these characters until leftist came in and made it an issue
I’m around the same part. These guys are saying people assume things and if they can make that assumption it’s bad. It’s such a dumb argument
It's funny, I'm rewatching the show Once Upon a Time with my mom, and we just noticed yesterday that (excluding maybe some background characters) in 4 seasons there have been about 5 black people and 4 of them were villains, and the last one is a damsel in distress type who spends most of the arc that she is in literally frozen in ice (fridged.)
Well, I think there’s more at play than simply assuming all of asmongolds chat are legitimately angry about a female protagonist. I’d say probably half of them do, but also it’s the obvious sh*tposty answer to spam DEI in the chat. It’s like reactionary trolling in response to so many companies highlighting diversity and kind of virtue signaling about inclusion. (Blizzard for example often advertises the diversity and inclusion in their games and in the company and asmongolds fans are mostly fans/anti-fans of blizzard)
Hutch you should know that Adam does NOT like being pressed for any kind of details or specifics as we learned when Conor tried to press him multiple times.
Jenga-spine pilled
@@katzhai0000 that was what actually made me unsubscribe from them. They had been going down hill for awhile but after seeing Adam start picking these fights on Twitter only to refuse to ever talk about it on stream & when he chose to it was only to purity test Connor & call him a fake conservative because he won't bend the knee to trump.
Adam was never smart but he was at least fun & willing to have interesting conversations a few years ago. Now he just seems to be an angry ball of spite.
@@AspiringDevilWho's Connor? Does he have a channel or whats his full name on the internet, I'd like to see this
@@iamnotinvolved1309Counter Connor aka Counterpoints.
He used to be a regular guest on their show & hangs with Destiny sometimes. He also has a Warhammer 40k channel.
He has become very controversial this last year because since he is an anti maga pro America conservative he agreed to help Progressive victory with an event to help people get registered to vote.
I highly respect his principled stance & Adam basically burned all his centrist cred in that argument.
@@AspiringDevil Thanks
Adam is so unbelievably evasive and smug yet clearly triggered by anyone who has a viewpoint to the left of him. This whole "I don't care but clearly the left wing tilts me" attitude is beyond cringy.
You're cringe. There is a reason he is that way. Think about it.
Being left wing is cringy
@@chrisbartolini1508 better than being weird
@@minizombie88 dead meme
@@chrisbartolini1508you wish
"I'm gonna vote Trump based on principle that it will make Hutch cry." Facts over feeling crowd when your candidate is a 34 times felon.
Misinformed you are
35* he bribed a voter last week
Now, without looking, name any of the laws he broke and what he was convicted on..
@@bigdick1267 Why? If someone was convicted for murder I couldn't tell what is the name of the law they broke without looking. :D
So what did trump do? @@Extraterrestrial-Bilu
The irony thing of the "to make Hutch cry" thing is, when Obama was first running, we had a mock election at our school. I remember having friends say they were gonna "vote against" Obama cuz they wanted to see this kid who said he was gay cry. Now I get that middle schoolers like most kids are kinda asshats, but it's sad seeing how as I grew up the mentality didn't change. I'm almost 30, these folks are older than me, and are acting like the children I knew in middle school. Wow
At least middle schoolers have to study & pass tests based on middle school level civics
I think people underestimate how much right-wing support is just edgy contrarians wanting to "own the libs".
You should probably not even talk to Adam anymore. He's so disengaged and more concerned bout getting in zingers than actually discussing anything. Sitch at least had a position to discuss, although it was a bad one. His position was essentially "People are conditioned to think any diversity is bad and woke, so you should just stop hiring marginalized people." Hutch pretty much nailed it and they just avoided the question: You are assuming diversity is always just tokenism. How can you ever hire a black or gay actor if even if they're the best for the role based on merit? The assumption is it was a DEI hire and that is inherently bad because people have preconceived notions.
Adam and Sitch: "You have to stop having diversity so diversity can be ok."
My God!
It’s a little cringe but this video reminds me of the phrase: “There’s two races: white and political.”
There’s two genders. Male and political
It's not at all cringe. It aptly describes the ideology of anti-woke warriors.
Two genders: straight male with beard and gay
@@BigLeafyTree its a lotta bit cringe
Yes it's a very cringe phrase used by stupid people. We're in the era where tv shows are casting black women to be viking Jarls. Genuinely insane.
Adam and sitch are unbearable in this. I think they are smart but only because they are actively working to be dishonest during this whole conversation. They create and borrow arguments that people in their audience use to pretend to have integrity or are centrists but that is very far from the truth.
Sitch might be smarter than he pretends to be. But Adam must be sub 90 IQ
The fact that Adam tries to pretend to be centrist at this point is Tim Pool levels of bullshit.
Adam and Sitch being unbearable is like water being wet.
@@crazymonk27 You leave Sitch out of this okay
Jesus every single time you try to get them to stand by a single vague thing they say they run away back to "can we focus on this other thing"?
Diversity is only forced if the story is supposed to be a highly realistic time period tale or based on mythology / set identity lore,
and when "Woke" means whatever you want it to mean the word ends up meaning nothing at all.
I don’t even agree with your definition of forced. Only crazy people accuse Hamilton of being “forced diversity” because they have black people playing people who were originally white
So would troy be considered woke?
Only people who treated white Cleopatra as bad as black Cleopatra can complain about accuracy. The right never cared about white Moses, white Egyptian gods, an Irish Zeus and countless more. What they're thinking is "they're taking white jobs" and that's it.
It's just like Hutch said, to right wing dimwits, it basically just means anybody that is not white, male cis or het. That's it.
Adam never outgrew the 2016 UA-cam mentality and it shows
Is Adam seananners?
Adam and Sitch are happily relegated to being nobodies because of L takes like this.
Adam cries about people being condescending while simultaneously being the most condescending person know to man🙄
Just wanna make a quick comment as a Transgirl on the idea of taking hormone blockers as a young teenager. I **wish** I had been able to get on blockers younger than I did. I wasn't able to get on them until 22, and it meant there were a lot of things male puberty does that you can't undo that I **hate** about myself. I was raised in a household that made me terrified to even talk about it until I moved out after college (because I wasn't in a household that could afford anything other than the community college, so I did college while still at home). Yet I had signs of being trans as young as 5 that I can personally remember, I knew I was trans by 14, and had basically committed to transitioning by 16. There were people who told me it was a 'phase' or didn't know what I really wanted, and here I am, at 30, still identifying as a woman, and going by the name I prefer and pronouns at work and among friends. (continued in replies to answer some of the other topics brought up in further detail)
Also, to the "Would you take a pill to solve it and not be dysphoric" question, I personally wouldn't take it. While it would fix that issue, first, I don't think it would make me happy. I think it might be one of those things, where removing sadness or pain, doesn't make someone happy. Second, I've learned a lot about myself, and how I view the world from having to deal with my transition, and honestly, its made me a stronger and better person. Now, would I take a pill to transition instantly without the long path for it, hmmm, that's a tougher one, because I think while I would have been happy with it, or at least happier than just not having dysphoria, missing out on growing as a person would have its negative consequences. (Though it would save so much money) I do wish there was a way to reverse the effects of male puberty though, its definitely much harder dealing with it after the fact. Like, I don't think Adam honestly understands how much male puberty does to the body. It changes so much. (Like, a super simple thing that most people forget about, dear god I hate having facial hair and having to shave it daily. Obviously not all men have heavy facial hair growth, but my family line does, and so I have to do it every single day, and still get evening shadow every day. Before puberty, I obviously didn't have facial hair growth, and had I been on blockers before that, I might have avoided this issue. Laser Hair Removal exists, but isn't cheap, and often isn't covered or assisted by insurances since its considered to be a 'cosmetic' surgery in many places and thus not important, despite how damaging it can be to a transwoman's mental state due to dysphoria.)
In regards to knowing how I knew before I had gone through puberty, I got dysphoria being compared to boys, being called one, the modern expectations of one, etc. I also personally loved wearing dresses and skirts even then, which obviously men can do, but its different IMO. I also spent a very large amount of time interacting and playing with other girls my age, often over boys if given the chance. When playing games, both irl and in videogames, I almost always picked the female option, even for minor differences, not just to look at a 'sexy' model like some men do (I did it in DND too, I don't think I ever once had a male character in all my DND sessions), and one thing that's a bit less thought of in mainstream conversations, but I **hated** my birthname, even at the age of like, 8, and would use literally anything else, or would try to come up with nicknames that had nothing to do with it to avoid it. I believe at the time I think it was just to get away from it, because I didn't tend to pick female names instead, but there were a few times I tried to go by my incredibly gender neutral middle name instead of my first name, before my attempts were stifled by family.
In terms of Trans stuff being put in with Gay stuff, you actually did it justice in talking about why they end up in the same group. The 'explosion' of people coming out of trans, but it being specifically more transmen coming out than transwomen, I think is the societal perception on Female to Male transitions being a much more stigmatized thing. The way young girls form social groups and make friends, it means that the societal pressures of conforming to the norm are much stronger when it comes to things like this. As someone who dealt with the other side of the coin, sure I was feminine, but it was often just put off by people as being socially awkward, or a nerd/geek, rather than being super feminine. But a 'girl' who leans into more masculine tendencies is often ostracized by their peers, or bullied by those who do follow the norms, much more heavily. I'm not saying it doesn't happen on both sides, but it is much more common with transmen than transwomen.
Adam seems to make a lot of arguments in bad faith though, specifically off this single clinic, which doesn't encompass the broad spectrum of the way things work. He's far too focused on one thing, and seems to be missing the bigger picture. Like I'm pretty sure EVERY SINGLE clinic and place I went to took multiple visits, therapist visits, constant follow-up visits even after getting on HRT, etc. And this is at AGE 22! Literally a legal adult and living on my own, and they still took their time to make sure I knew what I was signing up for. It seems like this specific clinic had bigger issues, and saying its the norm for the entire system is such an unfair way to argue the topic. Plus, while not my experience, I have trans friends who it took YEARS to get on blockers, between clinics having few staff that actually dealt with trans issues, and thus having month long waiting lists, or some doctors requiring multiple letters from therapists to even SEE a doctor about transitioning medically. Plus, that doesn't even bring up how EXPENSIVE it is. Hormones in general are pretty pricey, especially the blockers, without good insurance, and the surgeries for almost anything you can do for transitioning are incredibly expensive ((like bottom surgery, last I checked a few years ago, is 20k on the LOWEST estimates)), and often require weeks off for recovery, and can require very large travel expenses if nobody in your area does them, which is a pretty common occurrence, at least in the US. At the time when I was looking at it while in highschool, there was ONE doctor in my entire state (and one of the 15 biggest ones) who did transition surgeries, and the next closest was I believe 2 or 3 states over.
Thanks for sharing all that, it's important to hear from someone who didn't have the puberty blockers perspective and the thoroughness of when being assessed. Also the costs of hormones I hadn't considered either.
I also agree that Adam & Sitch have a narrow view and gloss over nuance when discussing cultural differences.
your post was really informative, thanks for your insight.
@@andrewb6647 No problem! I feel like a lot of the hate and fear trans people get is often due to lack of actual information, and also from just not knowing anybody who is trans. I had a few coworkers who were transphobic at first, but realized I was just a normal person who just wanted to use a different name and be called a girl, and outside of that I was pretty chill, which made them reconsider what they had thought about trans people a bit. Fear of the unknown is a big thing, and it doesn't help when people push false narratives to promote that fear. I hear the "Transwomen are just men who want to sneak into women's restrooms to assault them" pushed far too much as a talking point. Hate to break it to them, but honestly, anyone going into women's restrooms to do that was going to do it regardless of what gender they want to be, and says more about the person making the argument than actual trans people (like I've heard the argument made by people that if they could have pretended to be a girl to get into women's restrooms as a teenage boy they would and ugh, that's disgusting.) Personally I'm terrified of going into men's bathrooms and being assaulted by men for being trans, which is a constant stressor in certain counties in the US for sure.
"Generations ago" like come on, there are still people alive today that lived through segregation. It's not like we are talking about the witch trails or the crusades here, IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO ACTUALLY.
Women were only allowed to have their own bank accounts in 1974. The stonewall riots were 1969. Gay marriage was only legalized in 2015. Hell, one of the current presidential candidates is claiming that migrants eat pets, something straight from the fucking 1924, and is getting people to go along with that lie.
The claim that this shit happened "so long ago" when it's still happening right now in our current lifetimes just shows how absolutely dishonest and full of shit these people are.
6:52 Their concept of what woke is, and why company's put non straight white men as key characters in media is inherently ignorant/bigoted. Make the assumption that a character is shallow/hollow based on their sheer existence? Yeah, that's your personal - most likely politically driven - bias based on feelings, not substance.
I find both of these guys - maybe less so Sitch although I do find him to be bias - lack logic in their argument, because the concept of tokenism in this context is really subjective. This isn't some kind of legislated need to give people a lift up due to discrimination, these are deliberate decisions and stories that they are choosing to produce for gaming... They can't fathom that these storylines, people, characters, are valid; qualified; they're simply chosen because of their identities and nothing else.
If you can't see how that's ignorant than you really should seek some therapy, to be honest.
The lack of even paying attention to what Hutch is saying already shows that they aren't willing to have an honest discussion; just posturing and peddling their perspective with no consideration for the processes at hand - just assumptions that the choices are empty and meaningless without any substantial evidence.
And they don’t actually care about tokenism. That’s pretty obvious. It’s just an argument they know they can make with plausible deniability.
It's not about videos games, TV shows, and movies anymore. Wh1t3s will become a minority in the US by 2045. Right-wing politics is supposed to be downstream from preventing this from happening.
Sitch: People believe they’re sacrificing story for diversity.
Hutch: “I don’t think it’s well founded in this case.”
Sitch: “Well, we don’t know we haven’t played the game yet.”
He’s either biased or an idiot.
I don't even understand the argument against representation in movies, games, etc. Why can't the creator make any storyline they want even if the quality is bad. Is the idea that these creators are making all these decisions with the specific purpose of preventing a white person from getting a job? To me that would be the only possible issue but the idea that is happening is bat shit crazy.
Oh no, they disagree with me, they must be bigots...
I think it's pretty telling that Adam and sitch can never argue their beliefs alone. They always need to tag team debate any opposition bc they know that they can't do it on their own. They need someone to bail them or change the subject when shits going south bc they are wrong on so many facts of the matter constantly.
You realize if you look that the timestamps, that a large majority of this was just stich and hutch talking without input from Adam correct?
Sitch would be ok solo Adam is the one who often needs his hand held throughout debates.
Adam is audience-captured, Sitch is audience-hostaged
🤣
Sitch had nothing but good points that Hutch had no answer to...
Adam barely contributed anything to this conversation
Thats adam in a nutshell. Sitch could leave him and not lose anything
@@zenbear9952He would lose his "bad cop" he say the more extreme or edgy shit and stich says the more centeristy civility politics style shit.
Him saying "I was reading chat, I wasn't even paying attention to you" so early on would have tilted me. Fell flat if it was a joke, and I don't think it was
@@VarvadrossIf it was supposed to be a joke it was delivered terribly
@@zenbear9952 Sitch going his own way would probably be a net positive for him tbh, Adam is so often a ball-and-chain.
If movie/game/show is good then it’s not woke. If it’s bad then it’s woke and the black characters fault. If lord of the rings show was really good nobody would mention the black elves
Reminds me of the news out of Pixar after the last round of layoffs; Inside out 2 had an entire department whose job it was to "make sure the main character didn't seem gay" as the higher-ups blamed Lightyear's failure on the same-sex kiss that was in that movie (rather than admitting that they made a bad movie.)
@@michaelmaguire4147 You're being disingenuous as hell. We all know that conservatives made a huge culture-war issue out of the same-sex kiss in Lightyear. It shouldn't be surprising that Disney would want to avoid another similar controversy in the future.
Yea but the cringe right literally complains about every single thing now
rings of power is actually pretty good.
And why is it that when a show with white writers or actors or representation is bad it’s just bad but when any minority is involved at all it’s part of a political agenda? They made samurai champion years and years ago. Before the conservatards were given the idea to shout ‘woke! Dei!’ And pretend they know how to analyze media beyond the depth of their own nose. If that show were bad it wouldn’t be because it was woke. It would just be bad.
Idk why my comment didn’t post but I’m gonna try again
This is wrong.
If anything with white representation tanks, it tanks. If anything with anything resembling minority representation tanks, it’s DEI, wokeism, tokenism! Even if the writer is Bi or some such bs.
They made Afro samurai an era where if it failed it wouldn’t have been a failure of woke culture. It would’ve just failed.
Also rings of power is doing good. People on the right complain about literally everything any time there is any minority in a lead role of these big IPs as a knee jerk reaction. You literally start complaining the day the trailer drops. Even if the show was bad, it could just be bad. It’s not inherent to making the choice of having dark elves.
All that has been accomplished is that this has given people on the right a canned response to media that lets them pretend like they know anything about analyzing anything and feel smarter.
‘The writing was bad’ okay thank you for your contribution to the conversation
It's just like the concord game, they made like 10 errors with that game but people are just crying woke. Never mind how there are a number of other games out that are the same thing but better, never mind the price point, never mind the live service, nope it's all wokeness.
Two guys convinced they're raging against the machine and its just them whining about pop culture and mainstream media while defending the status quo.
BLM were protesting aggressive as well as fatal policing, this was during a presidency that encouraged cops to "be a bit rougher when making an arrest."
Sitch was too focused on cop related fatality data ignoring the aggressive policing problem at the time.
But even that wasn’t an issue. Black suspects are more likely to resist arrest and assault police, so you’ll of course see more cases of police being “aggressive” with black suspects. And I disagree about what people were “protesting”(rioting) for. They were out there for shootings 99% of the time. To make it even worse, there’s not been a single racially motivated police shooting in years. And basically all of the police shootings people rioted over were justified.
@@darklyripley6138 who is the source of the stats of resisting arrest, the cops? there are videos of them escalating situations with their aggressive approach and arresting people for resisting when it's evident they're not resisting. Black people are more likely to be pulled over, and racial profiling isn't a fallacy. Did trump tell cops to be rougher when making an arrest ? And bc you claim all cop shootings of blacks were justified? Look up Walter Scott or Eric Garner choked for selling loose cigarettes. Also you say the protest was 99% bc of shootings, where did you get that stat? George Floyd protests wasn't bc he was shot? His neck was knelt on for 9 minutes.
That exact black samurai is in Nioh and Sekiro because of how unique and special he is in literal historical context to Japan, Nobunaga had a black guy around, that was insane for the time
The debate around him is if he was an actual samurai or not, dude existed and was a badass but we have no clue if he was actually ever given any sort of rank because of contradictory sources from the period. Problem is the people you see getting upset arent when Shogun is ahistorical and the dumbest part is they are both historical fiction.
Exactly @TheKnizzine almost no fiction is completely historically accurate in any way at all. We are basing it on assumptions that come with our current perceptions.
It's funny to me that Japanese media has been using him for like 60 years as a Samurai but now it's a problem.
@@TheKnizzine I actually have a good friend that is pretty well-versed in the subject. He admits that while there isn't a lot of good written records bout his status as a samurai there is enough physical evidence to more or less confirm he was. His armor and chosen weapon from what I understand survive to this day as well a partial remains of the mask he wore into battle. I missed a good chuck of the lecture he gave that day in another friend's stream but it seems most average japanese see Yasuke as samurai.
@@TheShuumanadmits 😅
This viewpoint also contradicts the idea of "ugly women in games". Take stellar blade, is it DEI because you play as a woman or is it fine because the woman is hot?
It's the bad faith version of intersectionality 😂
There is an old Destiny video right before The Last Of Us 2 came up where he highlight's how gamers only value women in so far as they are fap bait.
@@greyjedi1272 it's basically true. If gamers can't masturbate to a character they're badly designed
Stellar Blade was viciously attacked exactly because it refused to play the whole "women in games must be ugly now" woke dogma. Get your facts straight.
@@Mant111 So is it a good game even if you have to play as a woman? Is it not the Feminizing video games even though you have to pick which skirt matches her blouse?
Its crazy to me how much I loved Sitch and Adam. Funny thing is I found Adam on Modern Day Debate, and thought he was cool enough to follow. Then I listened every Sunday, start to finish and anyone who knows how long those shows are knows how crazy I am.. Now, its hard for me to sit through this video. I still like Sitch, but I cannot stand Adam. Not sure why happened to him or he was just good at hiding it
Ever since I heard him, way back when Jordan Peterson was starting his grift, Adam was there to interpret him in the best possible light so I got the gist of his character at that time.
The defining of wokeness as essentially being communism is absolutely wild.
Wokeness definitely means “minorities are in it” to some people, but I try to be more charitable to the anti woke side and define it as “promoting left leaning social issues”.
If you’re going to define wokeness is anti democratic, fuck it, might as well just define anti-wokeness as racism.
been watching since WaW sniping tutorials and now into political commentary, the character development has been phenominal and im all for it
At the 12 minute mark and the best I can summarize Sitch's perspective is that the people who are primed to have reactionary responses to marginalized people are not at fault of their own actions, and instead it's actually the fault of those helping marginalized people. Cause every time he keeps deflecting to "well cause affirmative action exists" even though affirmative action does not subvert merit.
It's basically just "it's your fault I'm having a reactionary response," no accountability to the people who are factually wrong and have knee jerk bigoted responses.
That's what happened with the live action Little Mermaid, even though the director is quoted with having chosen Halle Bailey because of her skills as a singer. Literally chosen on merit.
People like Adam and Sitch know what they're doing, purposely treating the anti-woke response as equal and valid when we already know and see that a majority of the time it is a surface level knee jerk response to seeing any marginalized group. Literally already explained and proven by Hutch at the start with the Ghost of Yotei reactions.
12:30 Hutch rightfully asks for the actual issue to be explained
Sitch directly admits that even if the overall product, experience, game, story, etc is not actually negatively effected by the perceived inclusion of "politics", just the fact that these people perceive it as a bad thing is enough. From that alone you shouldn't need to take these people seriously. They just blame others for the the problems they themselves make up, and take no responsibility for their actions.
13:34 Hutch is doing the right thing here pressing them to provide the details. They are the ones claiming DEI is the issue, they should be the ones to bring evidence to support their claim.
Hutch rightfully pointed out that they claim to be okay with focusing on diverse hiring, as long as it doesn't negatively effect the result. And instead of collecting evidence along the way to make the claim that DEI is bad, we now see here with Adam that he's starting at the solution "let's find bad writers" and working backwards to find evidence to back his claim. This is the typical fashion of someone who is making a claim without proof.
19:34 Just more proof that every anti-woke person has a different definition of what "woke" means.
35:40 These people only ever bring up Appalachia as a response, never as actively showing concern for them. The only time they ever bring up the poor whites is whenever people talk about how disproportionately poor minorities are hurt. And then if you agree with them and bring up the class issue and that we should help all the poor and homeless regardless of race, they'll call it socialism. They don't actually care, it's only ever a talking point for them.
49:00 I mean these guys keep giving the game away with this stuff. Framing it as a needed cultural shift to promote having families, rather than the underlying issue of it's damn expensive to have kids. Child care especially, but extra groceries, baby supplies; their focus on a "cultural change" doesn't necessarily fix the underlying issues especially when right wing framework typical does this false equivalency.
Liberals and lefties want better support for these things because it helps people overall, and without needing to frame it as a "cultural change". It's just hiding regressive views within a facade of caring for people.
My biggest problem with adam and snitch is they pretend to be smart but cant either define or find evidence for their own side
I actually disagree with his talk about that Last Of Us episode. I think the fact that they weren’t straight greatly changes the dynamics of the beginning of their relationship.
It starts with one man meeting another man, each of them thinking they might get killed/robbed. That same dynamic wouldn’t play the same if it was a man and woman.
And then the romantic interest starts when one character lets his walls down and accept the fact that he likes men. Again, it’s a big difference between how a hetero couple would have been.
I think in that setting I would be just as sussed out at a random woman. It's the apocalypse.
Important to note 2. At the time of the apocalypse in the last of us they woudint have been able to get married (was before the Supreme Court date).
So it reflects even more on the theme of that episode that humanity can still be found in the apocalypse (since ther able to do something they codint do openly before the apocalypse) and that due to the apocalypse that humanity is slowly dying.(best shown that before the apocalypse he could get meds to live but now he obviously cant)
Them being gay emphasize those themes and put extra contrast to both before and after the apocalypse
@@alim5549 a random woman would be less likely to be able to overpower him. They’re inherently viewed as less dangerous, and the seduction element would be seen as more suspicious imo.
Yeah no in the zombie apocalypse you stop looking at women as non threats. You'd die if you didn't.
@@fishbiter9409 not a 'non threat', just less of a threat.
Always been a fan of yours since the machinima days, also a S&A fan, I admire your patience and your cool approach with all of this
Hey man. Just a head's up for next time anyone brings up "Black Samurai" as some sort of DEI "counter-argument". Tell them about the historical Yasuke. Also, remind them Afro Samurai exists, and nobody threw a tantrum over that. Also, Jinzaemon Kumano from Sekiro, a game that is apparently "woke-free," according to the Woke Detector on Steam.
💯 African/Caribbean & Asian cultures have always had high appeal in action-packed media. On both ends.
Woke detector is actually wild, I will forever hold that over conservative's heads. If cringe could ever amount to the charge of a human rights violation, it would be that lol.
@alekzgavriel-russo7453 there's more where that came from. There's a "No Alphabets" mod for BG3 that restores it to a "historically accurate medieval aesthetic." This includes gender swapping one member of all gay couples or changing hair colors to natural colors instead of what they perceive as "woke dyes."
Needless to say, it doesn't take long to find someone with Hitler as their profile photo in that comment section.
@@vladsaioc6269 Jesus christ, these people need better hobbies.
You have to intentionally hire a woman or a black woman it’s because people have intentionally left them out in the first place.
Are you saying that being wrong before validates being wrong now? Two wrongs don't make a right applies here IMO.
@@MooreGravyif every time you see a black person or woman working and assume they were only hired to improve diversity, what you're saying is you only think white men are qualified for anything.
@@MooreGravyWhat? If you intentionally didn’t hire women for reasons and then you realize that needing to fix it it would require you to intentionally hire women. Im failing to see how there’s two wrongs in here. You don’t have to exclude others while enacting a process that focuses on fixing a problem. So you can still hire men while focusing on recruiting and hiring women.
@@AnnoDomini19XX that was very well put
@@AnnoDomini19XX The way I read it was an individual intentionally wasn't hired because of their gender, skin color, or both. So then, or now, you hire someone BECAUSE of their gender or skin color. How is this not wrong and essentially the same thing? Twice.
Oh god. Adam infuriates me on this. Refuses to define woke & says we don't need to define woke. Now he is disagreeing with the popular definition of woke. Adam cant even define tokenism accurately.
Sitch's is at least coherent but I don't think most people would ever subscribe to it.
This discourse is so dumb. There is literally no swapping in Ghosts it was never established as a franchise before this.
And AC is even dumber AC has never cared about historical accuracy. And the only on controversy around the person they are writing fanfiction for isn't whether he is black or not but whether he was ever given the title of samurai.
So they dont care about details, they care about vibes. Got it.
ANAKIN SKYWALKER TURNED INTO DARTH VADER! What is this insane idea that Jedi are immune to the dark side?
And Count Dooku 😂
Watching these people, that are so far removed from my community, talk about issues that affect my community is eye opening, saddening, frustrating and infuriating. It's like they are having a deep dive discussion about a book they all haven't read but have strong opinions about because they saw the cover art a few times.
Adam is a waste of space
Why is Adam even here
Speaking on the generational wealth topic, my go to example is always so many people are effected by their grandpa receiving GI bill benefits and broadly black Americans where not allowed to cash in those same benefits. It makes complete sense to pay those people back
The Sam Jackson example is telling given he's pointing at a time when Hollywood was insanely discriminatory as the shining example of fair unbiased casting. They're just coming at it from the POV that there is absolutely zero white supremacy or discrimination thats worth changing, so every diversity initiative will justly face backlash
It's a bad example because Nick Fury had already been turned into the image of Jackson in the Ultimate universe long before Hollywood cast him in the role.
What happened to Adam? I remember seeing him a few times years ago and he seemed relatively normal and reasonable, and now every time I see him he has this smug af “holier than thou” attitude. It’s really really off putting. I remember thinking “Sitch is kinda crazy but Adam seems normal.” And now it completely flipped.
That's what everyone has been asking. He had been doing poorly on the show for a year now but after the trump assassination attempt he has went full unhinged
Reparations isn’t about specifically “targeting” black people because they’re black. It’s to pay up on a debt that is owed by the government to slaves which was never paid
"I'm above all of this" insists Adam, who is very clearly not above all of this.
I like when you asked “is it acceptable to pursue a diverse cast” and they both sort of muttered and mumbled out a “uhh yeah I guess that’s fine” like they hadn’t even considered that some artists might just want that
Damn man. Hutch is a good addition to the space. A moderate and sensible voice.
Who is priming these people to have this knee jerk reaction? It doesn’t come out of nowhere
Bingo
The black people getting roles and media, according to these guys. Everyone but the influencers like asmongold and these dudes
Content creator and media pundits.
@@hutchexactly! If you ever speak to these two again make sure you hit them on that!
Boomers and foreign social media moneys
Adam is just full stop bad faith. I don't know how anyone could have a conversation with him, unless it's in a style where you're just dunking on him.
I am so happy to have these to listen to at work. Big thanks Hutch!
Enjoy!
That Adam guy contributed zero to this conversation.
The Ghost of Yotei stuff I found immensely funny because these anti-woke people defended ghost of tsushima from progressives back when it came out because some people accused it of cultural appropriation while the Anti-woke crowd overlooked how progressive the games plot and characters actually we're. Quite literally one of the main characters is Gay and another one is a Lesbian. The games protag dealt with an internal conflict of going against his conservative upbringing. The first game is woke and that's OK because regardless it was great and this new one looks great.
47:02 lol everyone claims they “mistakes what Peterson has to say” but what you should be asking yourself is if someone who has a base rule in their life such as “be precise in their speech” keeps being mistaken for weird shit, maybe they are either A) saying what they mean or B) aren’t good at being precise
Or C) those people aren't mistaken but intentionally lying about his speech, then fools like Hutch fall for said lies, never investigating them.
What doesnt make sense about helping a race of people that a country enslaved for hundreds of years and built wealth and infrastructure off of? Its not just the skin color we're talking about hear.
Conservatives are incapable of systemic analysis and historical contextualization.
Crazy that our lives crossed paths again, love this new channel arc Hutch
Why are these cis men so obsessed with trans issues. This is the last place people should look to hear this discourse. None of them are informed enough to speak on such issues, none of them are even affected by this shit. And I don't buy such bs as "well, we care about people" or "we don't want these people to experience regrets". Lame part of what turned out to be a pretty lame talk over all. Reminds me of being a teenager and smoking weed w my friends. I guess some people never grow out of that. This is Joe Krogan tier content.
It is always funny to me when these sorts in discussions about things like Representation and Reparations for marginalized people, as they'll always bring up "What about poor white people" and I as the Enlightened Communist would simply answer "If you want to talk about the idea that both white and black people should receive assistance, I advocate for a Socialist System in which all people are made equal." to which these people would scatter away from because they don't actually care about equality.
Being woke means to be awake or aware of systemic injustices
Any discussion with Adam & Stich has to require a second person to communicate with them. Too often Adam will say shit that Stich will in real time go "Well this is what I think he means" while the sunglasses hut keeps quiet and reads the chat. This show always feels incredibly lopsided with them always going back into their anti-establishment/centrist security blankets.
Adam just acts like a petulant child who doesn't want to be there. Not sure what value he thinks he adds.
He thinks he’s funny. He’s not.
at the beginning of the debate you should have asked what was cheapened in the story by having a women be the main character? their claim is that the story is only being written the way it is because a women is the main focus of the plot, but the question is if a man was the main character instead but the story line stayed the same would the merit of the story stay the same or increase.
its so gross that its always "did they deserve to be somewhere" when its colour, LGBTQ and/or women.
but honestly you did so well hutch lol they equal woke with LGBTQ and women 100% lol
Nothing is cheapened by having women be the main characters - so long they're there for artistic reasons and not woke agendas.
Actually have grown to hate both sitch and adam over this woke shit
Treating Adam with respect is actually heinous behavior
I'm not trying to be mean but I really don't think that these guys are worth your time Hutch. I feel like you constantly have to think of new examples to explain the topic to them. Move on to bigger prey.
12:03 what adam did here is hugely disrepctful.
He does it all the time as a “power move” to people he disagrees with to try to get a reaction
S&A's standard tactic is for Sitch to be put forward as a genuine good faith debater while Adam snipes from the sidelines like a coward.
I used to watch them like 4 years ago, I can't believe how pathetic Adam has become. Taking little pot shots and hiding behind "I'm just joking"
I enjoyed the more calm discussion but man Adam really sucks. Sitch seems much more intelligent and willing to move on his position and understands nuance better.
Either way, I've been a subscriber since early Machinima days and it's great to have you active on UA-cam again!
I grew up around conservative moral panics all my life, living in the south and maturing in the 90s. Rap music, violence in games and other media, concerns over witchcraft. Hell, the idea that media was making kids gay is still a very recent idea. Nothing about the moral panic here is new. It is all just a repeat of the lefthanded memes: we stopped thinking lefthandedness was a sign of the devil so more people identified as lefthanded.
And why wouldn't it make sense that women are more accepting of transitioning? Have these guys looked at voting patterns by gender?
Because women are more socially inclined and thus more inclined to fall for social contagion. That's why. And it's bad.
Watched this live on the Sitch and Adam channel. Thank you Hutch for having a good faith discussion, I enjoyed hearing your takes!
How do you watch Adam when his approach to these conversations is be smug and dismissive and laugh at Hutch and also have some sort of a lackadaisical (I’m so glad I get to use this word in a sentence, it’s so rare) ‘I dont even care that much’ attitude.
I actually respect Hutch even more now because I would’ve called Adam out from the get go for his attitude.
@@wren4077 I really like Adam but I personally think he is going thru a bit of a contrarian phase. As an artist living in California (LA I believe) he’s surrounded by very left wing people. I think he’s heard so many progressives talk down to him that he kind of reflexively puts up defenses. I used to live in a very progressive bubble and used to react very similarly when people tried to preach at me. Not really a great quality to have on a political show sure, but he usually takes a back seat during debates and leaves the back and forth to Sitch.
Just my opinion as a viewer of theirs for the last few years.
@@Mr.Middleman but it isn’t just a backseat though is it
He’s smug about it, only comes in to condescend and patronize. Or almost only for that.
A bit late in his life, and culturally, to be going through the anti woke reactionary phase.
Also I didn’t know he was an artist. What’s he do?
@@wren4077 Yeah, i can see how he comes off to people who aren’t longtime followers of them, personally I think he’s one of the creators I follow who should get off of twitter (along with Destiny, Pisco and AJW to name a few) Also, he does art like paintings, drawings, stuff like that. All the stuff on his wall behind him is his art I think and I assume he did all of the art for the comic book they’re putting out.
Ok I haven't watched the Acolyte but did Sitch imply that the 'Jedi were the real bad guys' was woke? A big facet of the prequels was how the Jedi...while not 'evil' or maybe 'bad' were definitely lofty, detached and even in some cases actually kind of bad, which Sitch does seem to know to a point. That being said, I haven't seen the Acolyte so maybe they went really ridiculous with it, idk.
Its incredible to watch someone for their COD content then T-hunt, chess and now politics, all in different points in my life.
I applaud Hutch for being to have an almost 2 hour conversation with two people who think that not thinking is a personality. Every time Adam speaks I straight up lose brain cells. His opinions are incomprehensible
These two clowns talk in circles around every point, constantly hiding their beliefs and intentions. I have no idea what these guys stand for at all
They stand for getting superchats. For a long time they were acting as liberals who thought the left was going too far, whatever that means.
After a poll of their audience's political persuasion showed a large majority were right wing, they moved more obviously right but equally uninformed.
Adam saying “there’s a lot of literature” while referencing one book is so hilarious. “there’s a lot of literature” is a phrase that means there are a lot of scientific papers published that back up the claim, its not about fucking books. adam doesn’t understand basic english language
over 90 minutes of conversation and nobody was moved on a single point whatsoever xD discourse!
I feel like Trump supporters admitting they vote for Trump to bother other people would be as intellectually honest as they're gonna get.
The fact that peolle like sitch and adam immediately think of DEI when they see a woman as a protagonist shows exactly the kind of male as default thinking feminists have been criticising for decades now.
Why do the developers need to justify their choice when they make a female protagonist?
These ‘intellectuals’ even in the comments think they can defend their dogshit reactionary takes by saying ‘the writing is bad’ but forgetting that the whining begins the day the trailer drops showing a female lead or whatever else.
Adam and Sitch might think that, but there can also be legitimate reasons to think of DEI when they see that. It is a consequence of DEI. If you have a hiring or writing process that is done, to give roles/jobs to people of a specific race or s'x. Then there is people who is getiing hired becouse of their race or s'x. This means it is hard to tell if someone got the role/job becouse of their marits or becouse of their race or s'x. This in turn means people of that specific race or s'x, who got a role/job becouse of marits will be suspected for getting the role/job becouse thier race or s'x.
The writting of stories becomes bad when a moral or political stance becomes too importent in the story, becouse then the political or moral stance take priority over writing a good story and it can easiely become unnatural to the story. This will also be true if someone were to try and prove a consevitive point through a story. The story has to always be the first priority.
@@mikkelsieburg89 no
Pushing diversity being the main focus of an endeavor is also valid
Not all private companies need to have profit as a goal. If they don’t succeed they don’t succeed.
Similarly a tv show doesn’t have to serve the writing. Including diversity in the cast purely for diversity (even though i never see that claim applied validly) is also valid. Inclusive new diverse perspectives, pushing social progress can also be the primary goal and the story just the vehicle
If you don’t like it, you can not watch it and not engage with it. If the show doesn’t succeed, they will have less incentive to make it. Which is again assuming that their incentive was success and not the message.
All these redditors keep complaining about writing like they have degrees media literacy or filmmaking but the critiques are always ‘bad writing’’forced social messaging’ ‘unnecessary to the story’. Never any depth. Pretty convenient to hide behind these empty remarks and support the status quo.
These people make people like me sound like the sjw tankies I hate myself. I hate it.
@@mikkelsieburg89 not to mention, what merits?
What is the meritorious criteria of hiring writers?
Could it be possible that some writing is more of an art form where one has a unique perspective or contribution to a story than someone else? Not better or worse but different? Like all art, you know?
You can dislike it all you want but this crazy idea of ‘hire or merit’ is so weird. Who is being looked over to expressly hire someone for their race or gender? The people that dominate the industry? What about the other writers of the same race and gender? Seems like they didn’t get a job there? Were they not overlooked?
Think, Mark. Think.
@@wren4077 Hey Thanks for the replay. I found that vary interesting.
To your first comment as to how everything works I actually agree with you on almost everything if not everything you wrote. Our desagreements lies more in what is good or bad. I completely agrre that companies are free to do and priorities anything they wish and if I don't like the product from them i don't have to buy/watch it.
A company lives and dies depending on how good they are to make profit. A company that has it's focus on make profit has an advantege over companies who don't. which means the companies who don't is more likely to die. In order for a company to meke the best products the company needs the most talented people it can get. So if a company is racist and don't want to hire the clearly talanted black person over a white man the will loose out, and the compitetion can hire that person instead. This means the company that is racist is comprimising it's ability to make money over being racist, and is therefore more likely to close. This effect is the same with DEI hiring. If you hire someone for being black over a more talented white person you will lose out as well. So over time the company.
About incentive. The incentive will always be succes to some extent if they are not succesfull then they will not just be less incentive to send that message they will not have the money to do it. I think their incentive is to succed and their idea of what will bring about that succes is sending that messege. If sending that messege become more importent the the plot of the show, then the quality of the plot will drop and that is what all these people is complaining about. They don't care about the message they care about the plot.
Now while this is all interesting is has little to do with what my comment was about. :)
Mot to your 2nd. comment.
What I ment by merit was not something specific it is just whatever talent they need to do the work they are suppost to. It is to apply it broadly.
"What is the meritorious criteria of hiring writers?" Writing. Thier ability to write good storys. There is such a thing as good and bad writers.
Writing is a art. Some art do have a unique perspective. But not all art are equally good, somthing is difrent but good some are different but bad. Not all art is going to be top art. I also disagree that DEI bring different perspectives. It is different from 50 years ago sure, but they are all simelar to each other. Wich is why they are so easy reconiseble and becouse they prefer the perspective over the story telling some people dislike it. Nobody likes to have politict pushed down your throat.
And now fanally to something that actually adress what a wrote :)
My point is a logical one. DEI is there to hire people of different gender or race. If everyone is hired on the bases of their talent. Then the DEI does nothing. The moment DEI hire someone based on gender or race. They don't do so becouse of their talant.
You say this.
"Who is being looked over to expressly hire someone for their race or gender? The people that dominate the industry?"
This is vary telling of your possition. You view people as a collective rather than indiveduals. Yes it is the people that are dominating the industry that is harmed by this. On a cellectiv view it may not seems so bad they are dominating alread right. On a indivedual perspetive hower this is terrible. You didn't get the job not becouse you did not have the talants to make it, but becouse you had the wrong skin color and/or wrong gender. Why should you give a crap about other people with same race and gender having succes in industry.
"What about other people with the same gender and race are they been overlooked?"
It is being overlook but it is being discrinated agenst, and no they are not being discriminated agenst on bases of gender or race becouse they have the same gender or race. When you understand the critisism this question does not make sense.
Why do you call me Mark? :)
The point with my oreginal comment was about, how DEI brings negative the social reactions to people DEI is suppost to hire.
Gosh I internally flinch everytime I remind myself that I used to watch Sitch's content pretty regularly. My general skeptism about a lot of stuff insulated me against falling down the pipeline though I get queasy when I remember that I thought he was rather entertaining.
Really enjoyed this conversation Hutch, shoutout to the editor.
Thanks for watching!
Personally, I don't care for this distinction between the ideas of "Collectivism" versus "Individualism" because society is the result of Collective Action. Society only exists when people work together. But we also treat people as individuals within society, as we punish crime, or as we elevate people for their success.
To me, it's not "Collectivist" to want people to pay into a Social Security system, because it benefits people both as a group as well as the individuals within the group. It's also typically better to help entire groups as opposed to simply helping individuals, because elevating groups provides better outcomes for everyone, whereas helping individuals only helps those individuals.
16:00Adam realizing that he doesn't have an argument that doesn't make him look racist and trying to back out is hilarious.
Im genuinely curious how white=bad and minority=DEI is any different
Because one is made up, the other is a stated intent.
28:59 Sitch trying to pose George Floyds Death as a false narrative catalyst and justify it was really not a good look
Was he wrong, though?
@@Mant111yep
Hey Hutch, small pushback on what you've said. What makes the gay couple story in the Last of Us great is actually that it wouldn't be the same if you swaped genders. The reason why they were both able to easily trust each other so quickly was that both were men and were both physically capable of defending themselves. If you would put woman in the same position you would have a more "creepy" situation where one party is reliant on the other to a bigger extent.
You were supposed to talk about "woke culture in media" but all you ever get with Sitch and Adam is "anti white racism and trans topics" there formula got stale fast
Never heard of these guys before but why is Adam being such an asshole to you? Isn't this his show, why would he treat his guests so disrespectfully? So unprofessional lmao
He has been doing this all year & no one knows. Adam used to at least pretend to be good faith.
Short answer, Twitter broke him.
They had a spat on twitch, him and Hutch. That's why. "No one knows", that guy is a liar.
Been loving the vids hutch, do you stream on UA-cam or only twitch?
This is my first time on this channel & that Adam bloke comes across as a monumental disrespectful helmet.
He unfortunately is
What this has made me learn that Adam and sitch are just very light grifters who are not as far any way as i thought. I also think the positions they sit on in an attempt to "gotcha" is kinda all they have...
Its just a lot weaker all around then i thought.
sitch doesnt seem to know that nick fury became black in the comics before sam jackson was cast
The problem with anti woke, is that it’s so vague, and no one when you really ask them about it can come up with a specific definition what woke is and why it bothers them. Which is why you spoke about loads of other topics instead of taking about what wokeness is and weather it’s a good thing or a bad thing
Because wokeness is a religion, and good luck finding a short precise definition for a religion.
Tokenism. Like the commonly joined " token black guy", like a game token at Chucky cheese, is a character for diversity but has no value.
Also not too long ago all rolls where white rolls. Even b4 that all rolls was male white rolls. I guess it was DEI when woman could play woman and someone actually black/ brown/ Indian/ natives/Asians could play themselves. WOKENESS!
Except the right misuses the term "tokenism" all the time. A good example is Youngrippa, who will acknowledge that Miles Morales is a well-written, interesting character who adds value to the stories he appears in, but still insists on repeatedly calling him a "token" black character because...Spider-Man is "supposed to be" white or something like that.
@@homelander7742 true. The multiverse is DEI to them. Twisting up terms is very much a right wing mental gymnastics gimmick. From woke, DEI, socialism, just terms to be abused and manipulated to their benefit.
The right is the recipient of the biggest DEI that ever existed : the electoral college
I think what happened to the word woke is that it changed it's meaning(specifically refering to right wing meaning of woke)
Because I think in the past, it was more concrete and basically meant something like "if something is woke, it's anti egalitarian aka sexist/racist towards majority groups, aka white cis males by trying to portay those majority groups poorly, while portraying minority groups well" but eventually it became "any progressive ideology/politics in media" aka how Synthetic Man describes woke
Another way to describe first definition of woke is kinda how some progressives defined racism, some progressives defined it as racism=prejudice+power, well original woke in right wing circles meant woke=progressive politics+prejudice/hate/streotyping towards majority groups.
But eventually the "prejudice towards majority group" part got dissolved, by probably several factors, like the rise of far right like Nick Fuentes who benefit from the term woke being ill defined and vague, to the fact that imho, as a right winger I gotta admit that media made by progressives got better, it slowly started to be less prejudice to majority groups in a good way(even if I think some parts linger)
Hence why the original definition of woke is rarely used because it's impossible to argue that a simple inclusion of, say trans flag in Hat in time game, is somehow negative towards majority group, I mean there are even right wingers who are pro trans to some extent so...
As for second definition, it's vague but I do think occasionally it's technically correctly used, remember when progressive and conservative have a debate about diversity in media, one of the arguments of progressive is that "diversity is good because it helps normalise marginalised minorities, so they get less hate etc" plus many progressives say the line "all media is political" so technically if someone, say Sweet Baby inc, heavily encourages a developer to add a minority into the game, that's them exercising their politics aka promoting diversity to normalise minorities which leads less hate towards them, so technically you can say that the games are woke if consultant was Sweet Baby Inc.
I personally don't use the second definition of woke(and I know some right wingers also don't use second definition), or at least try not to, but just wanted to share my two cents on the topic 😅.
Also there's also a ton of grey area in the discussion of what is woke, but my comment is already long enough so hope what I wrote was interesting 😅
adam is way too smug for someone who debates like him
Adam is incredibly unintelligent
This was close to unwatchable, and I try to say that constructively.
Woke means something amazingly simple: alert to and concerned about social injustice and discrimination.
3 white guys who refuse to simply accept the definition of the term from the community that coined it is mind boggling, especially Hutch, representing the liberal perspective. Come on Hutch! Black communities created the term. Accept their definition and quit trying to cozy up to other white streamers. It’s an awful look.
The fact that you would denote them being "white" as a negative tells all you need to know about you and the woke ideology in general.
@@Mant111 I’m a white guy. It wasn’t meant as a negative. It was meant to differentiate between the community that invented the term and those discussing it in this video.
Just from this convo it’s clear there definition of woke is this nebulous thing you can infer onto anything and extrapolate malicious political messaging from. Sitch’s reasoning for why acolyte was woke was a massive reach.
That "Last of Us" episode was one of the best pieces of "TV" ever.
Re trans: It is really annoying listening to people talk about something they know nothing about (Sitch). At least Hutch had the sensibility to say he didn’t know and would leave it to the people involved.