To add some thoughts because I left a comment before I got to the really juicy stuff... If there is a core message to the Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones saga, it would be about how your actions will define your legacy. It always bothers me when people talk about how this series is about how the world is ruled by evil, conniving bastards and if you're going to make it you'll have to be as corrupt and evil as the rest of the world is, but it's really not. Game of Thrones is about how your actions define who you are, it doesn't matter if your intentions are good or evil, what you do is going to define how you will be remembered. We see this contrasted with Tywin and Ned. Tywin's a shrewd, effective ruler who views ruthlessness as a virtue. But in actuality, he's a narcissist who wants to dominate others to his whim, including his own family. His tendency to step over others and ignoring their basic rights meant he was little loved, and his empire died with him. Ned might have made some fatal miscalculations that cost him his life, but there are people who are willing to fight, die, or even worse punishment from the Boltons to help his children (or who they think are his children.) Being good might lead to some blind spots that a more ruthless person like Tywin wouldn't make, but it also means that you'll have people who will have your back, even after you die. The Lannisters might have won the battle against The Starks, but they lost the war.
I totally agree with your overall point and especially your commentary about Tywin and Ned. Very well said. You might say, then, that the main theme is akin to that famous Heraclitus quote "Man's character is his destiny." Jeez, you could probably make a full video about this: e.g. "What A Song of Ice and Fire Is Really About," etc. I get lots of flack from friends for saying that GRRM is the greatest modern fantasy author. In fact, there's a video out there with Christopher Ruocchio, the author Dave Butler, and me, and the guys seemed really surprised that GRRM is my favorite, essentially for the reasons you mention. I'm going to have to pin this comment because I agree that, while Ned made some fatal miscalculations, he leads with integrity and moral clarity and sets an example for the people who love and follow him. They're willing to fight and die for him.
@@iWizard Yes, I think what's so subversive about Game of Thrones is that Martin isn't afraid to show that the world can be an inherently unfair and cruel place, where decent people die for banal reasons and good doesn't always save the day. But he's also illustrating why such traits as integrity and loyalty are so important. Would you rather have people who will fight beside you and die for you or would you rather scheme and connive your way to the top? Martin's answer is very clear, even through all of the horrible things that happens to our main good guy characters. Damn that really should be a video. Hahaha. Also thanks for the pin, was truly touched.
Yes, I think that has something to do with the way the fantasy genre is viewed by the literary world at large. As far as fantasy goes, though, his work is about as good as it gets. I agree, it's odd that anyone would call it "pulp." If anything, it's got the feel of one of those sprawling 19th century family dramas.
Hey man, don't know if you were serious last night-I couldn't respond in real time-but I'd love to have you do some beta reading for me. Let me know if you're still interested! If you are, shoot me an email-jahill0912@gmail.com!
I do love your chemistry with your wife, and an interesting pick for the best fantasy novel of the 21st Century. I personally would give it to American Gods from Neil Gaiman, just an incredible book and it's still my favorite fantasy novel ever. I personally prefer A Game of Thrones in terms of A Song of Ice and Fire, I still can't get over how George sets up the typical fantasy story and then he flips it on its head completely. Aside from The First Law, I haven't seen anything like that since I first read A Game of Thrones. Brilliant stuff. My favorite is still Tyrion!
To add some thoughts because I left a comment before I got to the really juicy stuff...
If there is a core message to the Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones saga, it would be about how your actions will define your legacy. It always bothers me when people talk about how this series is about how the world is ruled by evil, conniving bastards and if you're going to make it you'll have to be as corrupt and evil as the rest of the world is, but it's really not. Game of Thrones is about how your actions define who you are, it doesn't matter if your intentions are good or evil, what you do is going to define how you will be remembered.
We see this contrasted with Tywin and Ned. Tywin's a shrewd, effective ruler who views ruthlessness as a virtue. But in actuality, he's a narcissist who wants to dominate others to his whim, including his own family. His tendency to step over others and ignoring their basic rights meant he was little loved, and his empire died with him. Ned might have made some fatal miscalculations that cost him his life, but there are people who are willing to fight, die, or even worse punishment from the Boltons to help his children (or who they think are his children.) Being good might lead to some blind spots that a more ruthless person like Tywin wouldn't make, but it also means that you'll have people who will have your back, even after you die.
The Lannisters might have won the battle against The Starks, but they lost the war.
I totally agree with your overall point and especially your commentary about Tywin and Ned. Very well said. You might say, then, that the main theme is akin to that famous Heraclitus quote "Man's character is his destiny." Jeez, you could probably make a full video about this: e.g. "What A Song of Ice and Fire Is Really About," etc. I get lots of flack from friends for saying that GRRM is the greatest modern fantasy author. In fact, there's a video out there with Christopher Ruocchio, the author Dave Butler, and me, and the guys seemed really surprised that GRRM is my favorite, essentially for the reasons you mention. I'm going to have to pin this comment because I agree that, while Ned made some fatal miscalculations, he leads with integrity and moral clarity and sets an example for the people who love and follow him. They're willing to fight and die for him.
@@iWizard Yes, I think what's so subversive about Game of Thrones is that Martin isn't afraid to show that the world can be an inherently unfair and cruel place, where decent people die for banal reasons and good doesn't always save the day. But he's also illustrating why such traits as integrity and loyalty are so important. Would you rather have people who will fight beside you and die for you or would you rather scheme and connive your way to the top? Martin's answer is very clear, even through all of the horrible things that happens to our main good guy characters.
Damn that really should be a video. Hahaha. Also thanks for the pin, was truly touched.
It’s so funny that twenty years ago Martins books, even ASOIAF was considered “pulp” lit.
Yes, I think that has something to do with the way the fantasy genre is viewed by the literary world at large. As far as fantasy goes, though, his work is about as good as it gets. I agree, it's odd that anyone would call it "pulp." If anything, it's got the feel of one of those sprawling 19th century family dramas.
Hey man, don't know if you were serious last night-I couldn't respond in real time-but I'd love to have you do some beta reading for me. Let me know if you're still interested! If you are, shoot me an email-jahill0912@gmail.com!
So sorry I couldn't join you guys! Next time, for sure.
Sounds great, man! Also, cheers to your meteoric success of late. As ever, you remain the GOAT.
I do love your chemistry with your wife, and an interesting pick for the best fantasy novel of the 21st Century. I personally would give it to American Gods from Neil Gaiman, just an incredible book and it's still my favorite fantasy novel ever.
I personally prefer A Game of Thrones in terms of A Song of Ice and Fire, I still can't get over how George sets up the typical fantasy story and then he flips it on its head completely. Aside from The First Law, I haven't seen anything like that since I first read A Game of Thrones. Brilliant stuff.
My favorite is still Tyrion!