MUFF vs FUZZ: What's the Difference? | Too Afraid To Ask
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- They're both hairy, chewy, filthy dirt boxes - but what's the difference between a Muff and a Fuzz? We take a look at each circuit to find out so that you don't have to be Too Afraid To Ask.
Big Muff - thmn.to/thopro...
Fuzz Face - thmn.to/thopro...
Learn how to build a Fuzz here: • DIY Fuzz Face & Circui...
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They're both hairy, chewy, filthy dirt boxes - but what's the difference between a Muff and a Fuzz? We take a look at each circuit to find out so that you don't have to be Too Afraid To Ask.
Big Muff - thmn.to/thoprod/191809?offid=1&affid=367
Fuzz Face - thmn.to/thoprod/309741?offid=1&affid=367
Learn how to build a Fuzz here: ua-cam.com/video/cagEeiq3u98/v-deo.html
More details on how Science of Loud implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure
#fuzzpedal #bigmuff #scienceofloud
More from Science of Loud:
Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/csguitars
Join Science of Loud Discord - discord.gg/uJHFgJRunb
Buy Science of Loud Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store
Website - www.csguitars.co.uk
Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk
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*Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for Science of Loud at no additional cost to you.*
I still say your d I y fuzzface looks like a puppy face with those 90 degree patch cables plugged in. They be the ears. #fuzzpuppy
How do attenuators really work?
Muff IS a fuzz.. This is not new, nor a mystery. Youre asking to compare coke to cola
@@chrise.3814 You should try watching the video before commenting...
It's genuinely astounding the amount of people who see a video title phrased as a question and think the creator of the video is seeking answers...
The question in the title is the one being ANSWERED by the video.
For some people this IS new information - including for you, because you clearly don't have a decent understanding of the nuances here.
The argument over whether a Big Muff is a fuzz or not is like arguing if a tomato is a fruit or vegetable - the answer is that it depends on who you ask
If you're a chef, a tomato is a vegetable and if you're a musician, a Big Muff is a fuzz.
Conversely, to a gardener, a tomato is a fruit, and to an engineer, a Big Muff is an overdrive.
Of these four disciplines, gardening is definitely my weakest - I just dig the holes where I'm told.
A fantastic analogy: The Muff would be used in the same sonic contexts as a fuzz, so no matter the engineering, 'technically correct' definition - it's a fuzz for any practical applications.
What about a biologist?
The biologist is too busy colouring in to answer the question
By definition the tomato is a fruit, and the big muff is a fuzz, there's no arguing with any of those
@@whatisthis__95 Tomato is also a vegetable, as its definition is "An edible part of a plant"
would love to hear the differences between 10 inch and 12 inch and 15 inch guitar speakers and the science behind it.
Absolutly
Thanks for explaining how the Big Muff utilizes soft clipping to get fuzz. I hadn't realized that it did until Robert Keeley released the "Angry Orange" Distortion/Fuzz that had both hard clipping (Boss DS-1) and soft clipping (EHX Big Muff).
Not enough DS-1 inspired pedals these days imo.
TATA: Soft clipping vs hard clipping. I know what they mean in theory sound-wise, but what are they actually?. If clipping is gain exceeding headroom, how is there a soft and a hard version? Is it that there is clipping that allows some of the wave to still pass through? Or is it a matter of how square it makes the wave, with hard clipping chopping it off at the shoulders and soft clipping giving a bit of a haircut?
While the signal can be distorted by exceeding the headroom of amplifiers (like in the case of the Fuzz Face) when talking about hard clipping vs soft clipping we are usually referring to the use of diodes to clip the signal while it is still well within headroom of the amplifier: diode clipping is a kind of artificial distortion which copies what would happen to the signal IF it was amplified beyond headroom.
It is indeed a matter of how square the waveform becomes after clipping: Hard clipping arranges the diodes so that any part of the signal that is above a certain voltage gets clipped, whereas soft clipping arranges the diodes so that they are only clipping within the upper most part of the waveform.
Soft clipping happens in the negative feedback of an amplifying element so that it affects only the difference between the input and output of the amplifier.
Hard clipping happens after all the amplification has been completed, chopping the waveform down to a specific height no matter how much it was amplified.
@@ScienceofLoud Thank you!
Yayyyy Colin's TATAs are always so fun
I love Colin's tatas
Very cool to see the actual differences of the circuits. I’ve always thought of them as similar tools for different jobs. Basically, fuzz face for rhythm and big muff for lead.
I use my Big Muff for rhythm, but only as I wanted a Big Muff on my pedal board
For a wild time, play the fuzz face *into* the Big Muff.
With the Fuzz Face's gain maxed, roll back your guitar's volume until you're in overdrive territory, then step on the Muff. Keep the gain on the Muff on the lower end, though. No higher than noon; start at zero and then turn up the knob until its *just* at the point where it almost wants to sputter out.
Also works really well with other vintage type fuzzes that are super dependent on being the first pedal in the chain like ColorSound/Macaris style pedals.
Thanks for the excellent explanation. I knew you would be able to answer this question 😁
Thanks for asking it!
Definitely a couple of fun pedals. I like both, but the fuzzface circuit is my favorite of the two. I prefer the unpredictability it has as well. Finding the right spot at the point of no control is a bit challenging, but well worth it for some of the crazy tones you can get out of it. Cheers Colin!
5:00 Wolfmother! Hell yeah brother, cheers from Canada!
Thank you! Was wondering what the differences were, this was perfect.
That's a really tight explanation, thank you. Massive kudos and gratitude.
I distinguish between overdrive, distortion, and fuzz, based on how much of the note's duration contains the harmonic content added by the circuit. Overdrive will certainly add "bite", by exaggerating the harmonic content of the initial pick attack. But as the note sustains, it reverts towards the basic note fundamental. "Distortion" will prolong the additional harmonic content beyond what overdrive does, but what we call "fuzz" will sustain that added harmonic content even longer, such that one could slide a note around, moving your fret finger up and down the string, and still hear the added harmonic content.
Now, all of that is distinct from the means by which it is achieved. Pretty much any overdrive can sound like a distortion, and occasionally like a fuzz, if you feed it a boosted signal. The EHX Muff Fuzz is a basic silicon Fuzz Face, but with low enough gain that it sounds like an overdrive, and occasionally like a distortion, if you push it hard enough. But the EHX Double Muff pedal puts two Muff Fuzzes in series, that ends up yielding a very identifiable "fuzz". It's all in the cascaded gain of stages driving other stages.
Ayooo. I want more TATA's like this! I love discerning differences between pedals of the same kind of effect with their own reverence in the community.
I always loved the rams head muff. I wish there was a way it could react more to the volume knob, like a fuzz face.
Thanks for all this information . You are a legend
I feel like it's obvious but i think the big muff is more "modern" and the fuzz face is more "classic/vintage". To call one better than the other seems a bit ridiculous, like saying a a strat or a Les Paul is better than the other. I like the fuzz face better for certain solo-y stuff and the big muff better for rhythm. As many here are aware, the big muff is half of what makes the sound of Siamese Dream, and I love that album and that sound.
I like the fuzzface for how simple and easy to mod it is. Also personally prefer the transistor overdrive compared to clipping diodes because it's closer to how an actual amplifier behaves. Both are legendary circuits and sounds we've heard for as long as guitars have had distortion
That Wolf Mother “Woman” riff caught me extremely off guard
Super nice playing 👍🏻
To me the Fuzz has a "barbwire and glass shards"-sound and the Muff has a "very strong coffee with entirely too much sugar"-sound. But I can certainly see why playing rhythm guitar on the Muff would let the lead guitar stand out more with a Fuzz. "Too much of a good thing" does exist, and the pain of barbwire is only pleasurable if dosed correctly.
With a fuzz (face) its often a good idea to take the edge off the distortion sound by running it into a second (mild) distortion stage, like a pushed tube amp. The compression and filtering tames the high frequencies a bit. Muffs are already heavily compressed and filtered so they don‘t need this and in fact sound not that good (well it‘s a matter of taste really but what isn‘t😉) with dist after it (too much of a good thing again like you said).
Great job! I really appreciate the topology comparison as well. I've had people try to tell me that they're the same circuit, and I knew better, but couldn't explain why. The clipping diodes in the BM were a surprise to me, too, but it makes sense.
Here's an idea. Run a FF and BM in parallel. Back off the distortion a bit (at least at first), and make it so that the FF sit in the midrange (no bass, treble to taste) of BM's scooped mids. If you dial it in right, you can even play jazz chords and hear their qualities clearly; or, you can crank both and get threatened with eviction (even if you own your house).
🤘😈🎸
I think you just helped me realize that it’s not all fuzz I don’t like but just the muff type fuzz witch is too compress for my liking. Thanks
Man, that was a great video. Thank you very much for clarifying it!
I love this channel!
Keep it loud!
Def out of the two always like the fuzz face in the ways it reacts to dynamics over the muff, really great comparison with what you played.
Holy crap!
Video production looks crisp!!
Upgrade⬆️🏄🙌
Great topic to explore!
The Fuzz Face is actually clone of the Tonebender MK1.5. The original Tonebender was based on the Maestro FZ-1, the first Fuzz pedal.
Great comparison and explanation.
Big fan of the Metal Muff. Add a BBE Sonic Maximizer and it’s magic to me.
The thing I love Muff for is almost infinite sustain it gives. Playing with Muff set to max sustain and low gain just gives you the creamiest lead. Pair it with a boost or tube screamer and let it flow. Especially if you run your Big Muff INTO the TS.
awesome video. would be cool to see the same with a fuzz bender, octavia, superfuzz, op amp fuzz...
YAY, SENSAI IS BACK!!!
Never was a big fan of a low tone/trebble presence.
I'm starting to use these as a base for layering my distortion tone though.
Thankzzz
For me as a rhythm player I prefer the Big Muff. Running a Tubescreamer ahead of a Big Muff is also a fantastic sounding tone too!
I thought I didn't lik fuzz. Now I realize it's the Big Muff fuzz kind I don't like. Every fuzz I've tried had that BM sound.
Thanks for that.
Yeah, it sounds like the guitar is replaced with someone farting into a microphone with so much power that it clips the input of your amp.
The tone control seems to be the cause of the problem, as I've heard muff circuits that have been modified to use a different tone circuit and it really elevated the sound to simply being average instead of offensively bad.
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 the big muff tone stack is a big "delete mids" knob. So, unless you're the only guitar in the mix or you're doing something to boost the mids back up (e.g. running a Tubescreamer into the Muff), it WILL suck
Id love to see a video on exactly how transistors create distortion
Fuzz face sounds really great at the end of the video.
Has anyone ever tried a LSTR? I have a Crown of Horns & I don't like it nearly as much as my Pharaoh. It's not bad. The artwork is cool & the eyes light up. The Pharaoh definitely sounds way better.
To me, the fuzz face is more about the player and less about the pedal and the BMP is more about the pedal and less about the player. What I mean is that two players can use the FF and they'll sound differently, while with big muffs the type of big muff is what determines the sound.
The Muff is just tough.
Fuzz face was trying to recreate the distorted channel strip sound. Big muff is more amp like gain. How I hear them anyway.
Not a single demo of them stacked together? c'mon man!
Are Flanger, Chorus, & Delay all the same effect just different lengths of delay time?
A delay could be without modulation in the wet signal. The other two require the modulation even if some are static (fixed filter, micropitch, or dimension style). An EQ is also a delay.
You could debate on what is a fuzz...
Big muff is high gain pedal with diode clipping (soft).
Original fuzzes are 2 transistors, at first germanium (low gain) then silicon. Then some pedal makers modify the schematic, adding more transistors, then diode clipping. You have more or less 5 basic circuits.
2 transistors, 3 transistors, 4 transistors, 2,3 or 4 transistors with clipping (soft or hard). When it stops to be a fuzz ?
I think that fuzz is a sound, what ever makes it...
So interesting timing for these videoz as i've been thinking about getting a Fuzzface and multitracking with my muff, think the two will blend well?
Man I miss my LBM. It was higher gain than other muffs when it came out.
I'm curious on your take of the op-amp muff and how it relates to both fuzz and the "regular" big muff, since it doesn't have 4 transistors, just two op-amps (I believe).
You wear that fuzz face well Colin
Hi Colin, I have a question regarding using a digital model of a fuzz. You already explained in the first fuzz face video, that the guitar is part of the circuit and therefore should come first on the pedal board. But does that also apply to digital models? For example using a compressor pedal in front of an HX Stomp in my case. Thanks for scientifying the gear world for us ❤
I find it highly unlikely that the people programming digital versions of these effects will include simulated impedance interactions depending on effect placement. That seems like a lot of work for no good reason.
Place your digital fuzz where ever you want, it is unbound from the foibles of physical reality.
They have different circuits?
4:15 Is this what happens when you bypass the tone control in the Tone Wicker Muff? Or is it more complicated?
I don't have any hands on experience with the Tone Wicker Muff, but from what I can see about it from the product page online: Yes - assuming that it is disengaging the entire tone control and twin filter arrangement, without introducing other filtering elsewhere, then it would produce a full range distortion that would look more or less symmetric square wave on the scope.
@@ScienceofLoud That's what it sounds like
Now I’m not sure what the difference between a fuzz and a muff is but I sure do like a fuzzy muff
No one’s laughing 😢
So, I have what may be an apples to apples comparison question(where both red delicious and golden delicious are both apples, but taste nothing alike), but what is the difference circuit wise between the more traditional Muffs and the Op Amp Muff? Obviously I understand one uses an op amp and the other uses diodes(if I’m wrong about that, I apologize), but is there a big difference in the circuit topology?
What about single transistor Bass Fuzz or Bazz Fuss circuit.?
what kind of tones could you get from a guitar that has a gibson humbucker in the bridge, a danelectro lipstick single coil in the middle position, and a fender p90 in the neck. with the ability to have all three pickups on at the same time.
Since the Fuzz Face is 2 BJT Transistors cascading into each other, would replacing the 2 with 1 Darlington Transistor (and with correcting for bias) do the same thing?
I'm going to say no: Darlington pairs connect the emitter of Q1 to the base of Q2, which isn't the arrangement used in the Fuzz Face - where the Q1 collector is connected to Q2 base.
It's been a long time since I've read up on Darlington pairs, but I believe the intention is that they behave as one transistor to achieve higher current gain - with their collectors tied together - so it wouldn't be possible to bias them differently to achieve the effect we get with the Fuzz.
The fact that I've never seen a Darlington Transistor used in a fuzz before is probably telling that it's not a viable option.
What do the 12 stages in a phaser mean?
how do guitar tuners work?
Tuners as in tuning machines?
Or Tuners as in a pedal that displays the pitch of the note being played?
@@ScienceofLoud Colin, I have to ASSuME that the question is about pedals, or equal, used to display the pitch of the note being played. A question about tuning machines seems too far off-topic, I think.
... Okay, but which one of these is gonna give me more gain going into clean channel of my Peavy 6505 or my Besa Boogie Dual? I need all the gain.
Muff. Fuzz Face likes a slightly dirty amp.
This is a magnificent callback!
@@ScienceofLoud All this time and a lovely rebrand later, I still regularly reference the first two videos I saw here. 'clean channel, cheap drive pedal!' in particular is a shorthand amongst a number of my friends for situations where expensive equipment is being badly mishandled or let down by something cheap up or downstream.
fuzz face has two transistors...big muff has three transistors. (JHS pedals channel covered this a couple years ago.)
Thats really not what matters here, the Big Muff has soft clipping diode distortion (as explained in the video), whereas the Fuzz Face is class a transistor distortion (similiar to a tube amp actually), also the Biggie has 4 not 3 transistors.
I think you maybe mistook it for the difference between Fuzz Face and Tone Bender, because here that statement would be true and they‘re basically the same circuit otherwise. ( to be precise the FF is a stripped down version of the TB mk1 or a blatant rip off of the very rare TB Mk 1.5)
@@erlannderrantem6972 Maybe you might go watch the JHS Pedals video on the subject?
Muff has 4
For an untrained ear like me it sounds like there is less treble from the Big Muff.
But the Big Muff has a tone control, so I am not sure that the difference is from the tone-settings or the inherently difference in the construction.
Stack em!
TATA: Will a heavily down tuned guitar sound good through a bass amp or cabinet? Will the natural high frequencies of the guitar damage the bass cabinet speakers or amp?
I'm running guitar and bass (tuned to B) through an Orange bass amp+cab, usually with some overdrive or distortion. Even with a very hot EHX Metal Muff or MT2 clone both instruments still sound awesome, however I never had to crank the amp past 40% so I got plenty of headroom.
Don't think it would damage your equipment, unless it is some dirt cheap "beginner practice amp". If it does, you'll usually hear the amp/cab giving up before you reach the desired volume.
Actually fuzz face is my favorite
Especcialy after listening Jimi Hendrix
Imo both used in their original version are horrible if used alone:)
1) fuzz face have no tone control and usually even with volume maxed it's not much of a boost, gain knob is fairly useless, only viable if you have really high output pickups. Everybody just uses volume on guitar for gain. Which is nice, but why don't you put that on a pedal and some of the manufactures have done exactly that and added tone control. the simple toleration of components makes it sound different, i think there is one potenctionmeter inside, which is there just to dial in the correct value between resistors, they work differently in higher temperatures (germanium ones), ...
2) big muff has horrible tone control, that in neutral position sucks mids and both filters are really meh, so if there was no tone stack and you would have to use some eq after, it would be much easier, now it's tinkering, but newer models have different tone and/or added switches and copies address this too. I have this exact problem with DS-1 which have the same or mostly the same tonestack. On the other hand big muff sustain is great, maybe even overkill, but it cannot be cleared with guitar volume like fuzz face.
Fuzz people are little bit crazy, instead of clarifying things, they seem to find new ways of destroying the sound, like adding octave or bias ...
I don't know if this is the place to make TATA questions, but I can't find an answer anywhere online no matter how hard I've tried. The question is, is it possible to make a 4x12 16 ohms by wiring 2 sets of 2 speakers in series and then wiring the 2 sets in parallel? if my calculations are correct, 2 speakers of 8ohms in series gives me 16 ohms, 2 sets of them gives me 32 in total but wiring the sets in parallel divides the whole load. Thanks in advance and cheers from Puerto Rico \m/
Yes: if you have two pairs of series speakers, then wire those in parallel, you can achieve a total load which is equal to the load of the individual speakers (assuming all are the same impedance)
For example: If you have four 8 ohm speakers - create two pairs in series (8+8=16)
Now you have the equivalent of two 16 ohm speakers.
Wiring those 16 ohm pairs in parallel will result in a total impedance of 8 ohms (1/16+1/16=1/8)
If you want to find this answer online, simply search: "how to wire 412 cabinet"
That will return you diagrams of exactly this arrangement.
I prefer the sound of the Fuzz Face.
Stating my opinions ahead of watching the video:
A Muff is a Muff, a fuzz is a fuzz. They are two inherently different things, but I understand why people conflate the two.
Edit: after watching the video my opinion still stands. The combination of particular quad transistor staging and unique tone stack is why I consider a Muff-style distortion to be its own thing.
A guitarist once said "The Big Muff listens to what you play, throws it away, and substitutes its own version."
The Fuzz/Strat comes on like Hendrix, The Muff rather like Black Sabbath/Alvin Stardust/Deep Purple(?). I like the Fuzz/Strat more, I´m a Strat Clone Guy.
What about the tone bender style fuzz?
Tone Bender and Fuzz Face are essentially identical circuits - everything you'd want to know about the Tone Bender you can find out by watching my Fuzz Face video: ua-cam.com/video/cagEeiq3u98/v-deo.htmlsi=RP8z12kFAhNfbh4v
They both behave very differently to the guitars volume control. Fuzz faces give a great clean tone, especially with single coils, big muffs stay gnarly, just quiter
I like Big Muffs and I cannot lie...
What is “sag” in a tube amp and how is it used. I’ve heard the term but I have no idea what it is (I’ve probably heard it and didn’t realize what I was hearing)
Sag happens when the output tubes in the amp momentarily need to draw more power than the amplifier has to give - this sudden demand causes the rectifier voltage to briefly collapse and slowly recover.
While the Rectifier is 'sagging' the Plate Voltage delivered to the output valves drops and the amplifier is unable to maintain its full volume and headroom.
Sonically this results in a spongy, compression-like volume sag on the loudest parts of the signal, particularly the initial attack of notes.
It's an effect that really only makes itself apparent when you have a low wattage valve rectified amplifier being driven near maximum volume.
Thank you!
Apparently if you play active bass you're supposed to play a muff. Because a fuzzface needs to be part of the pickup circuit. Can anyone explain this?
I explained part of this in my previous video on the Fuzz Face: ua-cam.com/video/cagEeiq3u98/v-deo.htmlsi=mNymXstvT5L3Lto7
It's about buffers and input impedance: Neither the Fuzz Face nor the Big Muff are buffered, but the Muff does have a resistor on the input that sets the impedance low. This will pair better with active pickups - and any losses the impedance mismatch causes with passive pickups will go completely unnoticed due to how much the rest of the circuit is mutilating the sound.
@4:00 fortunately not everyone watching trained as an electronic engineer , if they did they'd be screaming about why the hell both sides of the tone control are connected to ground *coff* ... whoops!
Considering about 5 seconds previously, the full tone filter circuit was on screen, and there was a verbal call to action to watch a video dedicated to the subject, and the '*extremely simplified circuit' disclaimer on the graphic itself - I'd imagine they'd all have perfectly well understood what's going on.
I like a fuzzy muff myself. 😅
Mudhoney choose both of 'em !!
👍🏿🤘
Face or bender?
Team Big Muff
Muff sounds better to me…
even though I am old school (65 years old), I still don't like fuzz.
It's rarely used in a tasteful way, much like 'heavy distortion'. Gotta tune it like the instrument, appropriately for each instance required.
You're totally right. Fuzz is rarely used tastefully. In this kind of vids you see (or hear) guys playing standard Rock riffs through them. Pointless. Whereas when you listen to 65-67 Garage Bands, they are used for a messy 20 sec solo, and that was it. That's where there magic lies.
how did you get through this video without once giggling when you said "muff"? clearly a lot more mature than me :3
People have been making the same Muff jokes since 1971 - I'm well over it at this point
Is it just me, or does these pedals sound like just distortion, but the speaker is covered by a few pillows?
60s 70s fuzz face
90s big muff
???
Is there a question here, or are you just confused generally?
@@ScienceofLoud just pointing out a potential quick and dirty way of ‘identifying’ what is what- 60s stuff in my head (Hendrix) tends to sound like fuzz face and 90s for sure sounds like Big Muff (being a ‘young gen X and growing up on grunge)
Shouldn't this be NATA? Not Afraid To Ask
So, I hate them both. I have NEVER liked fuzz distortion
Who cares, they both distort, end of.