Luke, you are THE reference for chinese bike part reviews! When the likes of Shimano and Sram are hitting the clouds with hi tech, high prices, an increasing number of us mortals are looking to you for the more down to Earth affordable alternatives! Keep them coming!!
There is NOTHING hi-tech about bikes. It's all quite lower end technology compared to cars or moto-cycles. It is all just an exercise in excessive marketing.
Yes right I agree...it's the 12-speed arms race that's frustrating...go for the 11-speed mechanical so the indexing isn't so sensitive. 2 x 11 is absolutely fine gearing wise, even with a wide range 11 - 34 as they keep the jumps small down at business end of the cassette. Also good luck with going full-time on the channel...the videos are superb and you've nearly cracked 100k subscribers. Live long and prosper, chief.
Thanks Simon, yeah totally with you. 12 speed on electronic groupsets make sense, on mechanical it's a bit of a marketing gimmick. It can work, and I actually tuned the shifting up a little more after editing this video, so it is pretty much perfect, but it's just so finicky. 11 speed is still where it's at for mechanical groupsets!
It also locks you out of certain gear ranges too if you are on an HG freehub, for Gravel basically it's 50T+ cassette mullet or nothing. I almost made this mistake I had The GRT in the basket, then went looking for a 12 speed HG 11-40 and they don't exist! Ironically having the 1 extra gear would have given me 2 less usable gears.
@@TraceVelo For the crankset I would always buy something used with a (best case) spider Powermeter or a simple Ultegra/105 crankset and a Stages/4iiii left power meter crank. @Trace Velo Are the Shimano based Stages/4iiii left sided power meter cranks compatible with Sensaticx-Cranksets, like the included PR4 crankset from them? This would be phenomenal. From the pictures, it looks very Shimano like. What inner bottom bracket do they actually use in this shimano styled crankset, because they also have real SRAM dub cranksets as I've seen.
@@DanikoLPThat's good timing. I was just servicing my PR4 and happened to have a new Ultegra crank nearby (waiting for a frame to go in) I checked and the arm does fit on the PR4. I put one on my gravel bike during the "parts shortage" (over 16000km on it so far no issues) It uses a standard 24mm spindle the BB I'm running a Hope BSA (road). The PR4 is a little heavy, in many ways its a bit like an old Shimano MTB crank with a narrow Q-Factor, but I see no reason to swap it out for the GRX I originally wanted unless it fails or wears out. By that time I might actually be able to buy a GRX in 165!
I think the corrosion might have to do with galvanic corrosion due to brake dust from the pads. The pads have different metals in them as compared to the nut. When these differently charged metals come into contact an electrochemical process starts, causing the corrosion. This will be accelerated by the presence of salt, acting as a good electronic and ionic conductor.
Also, Shimano paints the bolts and the nuts above the threads as well. Road salt would explain it being on downward side and simply a mild coating that was easily affected. I live by saltwater so galvanic corrosion is a daily condition.
It will be galvanic corrosion from the difference in metals between the calliper and the bolt. One will be steel and the other aluminium. The zinc coating on the bolt will be the sacrificial material. The callipers would dissolve if not.
Couldn't agree more on the 11 speed spec. I can't justify the jump to 12. Also appreciated the look inside the caliper to show the guts. Keep up the great videos 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
@Tracevelo - Brillant videos and work, love the format of your videos and the UA-cam comments from the community also very valuable. Having read near most on this video, it seems to me that: a)divided opinions on need for 12 speed need be investigated in further videos, but I think it should be 10 x 2 vs 11 x 2 vs 12 x1 where the 12 x 1 use a casette like 9-46(xdr drive). ...and b) 12 speed being finicky on the l-twoo shifters to be explored further as good comment suggestions include use of special 12 speed campagnolo cables and use of shimano grx derailleur and caliper.
Trace Velo is definitely up there as one of UA-cam's go-to cycling channels, with all the quality reviews and builds Luke has put up in his videos through the years. Definitely, I would be one to vouch for the knowledge I gained from watching these quirky vids that entertain me so much. No matter what happens Luke, we'll always be here to leave baguettes in the comment section in every upload. 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Hey Luke, it's really touching how upfront you were about whats a stressful move away from 'regular employment'. The community has always admired your willingness to take risks and impart the knowledge (good or bad) that comes with the well documented experience you publish. Congratulations again for following what you believe in🥖❤
🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 Yet again great advice and tips, esp 11 vs 12 speed - we won't get this anywhere else! BTW don't stress. Do what you do best - it will work out😊 Best wishes all round💪💪🤘🥖🏆🤘💪
70mm spacing on the calipers is super weird... that makes it (almost?) impossible to use on postmount frames, which is really unfortunate for gravel conversions using mtb frames for example.
This mimics my experience with the GRT very well. It's very finicky in the harder gears, especially the second hardest. I actually found it worked best with a Sram 12 speed road cassette, a Rival XPLR 10-44, than Shimano spaced 12 speed road (Sram is spaced ever so slightly wider). Keeping portions of the cable that are bare against the plastic/resin of the shifter and derailleur a little lubricated and clean really helps with those downshifts in the harder gears. What's causing the lazy shifting is that the shifter releases the cable fully but resistance along the cable's path, and a lack of strong enough spring tension in the derailleur's lateral movement, keep the cable from being pulled all the way immediately at the derailleur end when there is less cable tension. As you found, keeping tight turns out of the cable housing really helps. I think if L-Twoo just had a stronger spring pulling the derailleur outboard (thus putting more static tension on the cable and pulling on it more strongly from downshifts), the problem would go away and the shifting would be crisp all the way down the cassette. As a point of interest, I'm currently running the shifters with a GRX 810-series rear derailleur, and this has improved the downshift quality immensely. The L-Twoo RX, GRT, and R9 shifters all pull the same cable ratio as Shimano Road 11-speed derailleurs, so it's all full interchangeable :) edited to add: pull the shifter hood cover back and watch the exposed bit of cable as you downshift; you can see it doesn't pull all the way at lower cable tension/harder gears and takes a second to let all the way out
Yes its a parallelogram spring tension issue. 20 year old shimano have this issue with the spring weakening, ltwoo must be using the worse quality spring steel so I think my shifting will get much worse. I'm going to try to tie up 2 or 3 coils to increase the tension with some kevlar thread I have. The high gear limit screw also fouls if you screw it in too far.
Interesting.. would have guessed they use sram road pull ratio like Sensah does. Does it shift as well as all GRX now? My Sensah RD gave up on me after a year and I’m running a sram apex one with Sensah shifters. (But the breaking suuuucks)
Thanks @vixxenMTB . Are you basically using L-twoo 12 speed shifters with shimano GRX 11 speed derailleur? Am trying to establish if the pull ration of L-twoo 12 speed shifter is same as shimano 11 speed grx shifter! By the way, this mean lots of upgrade possible, could imagine buying only the l-twoo shifters and buying dérailleurs and calipers from Shimano.
@@MoiseCoulon17 that's actually exactly what's on my main bike, now! Just the L-twoo shifters, a Shimano GRX-RX812 11 speed RD, and Shimano flat mount brake calipers. The L-Twoo brake calipers are fine, just sort of heavy and inelegant with the adapters
@@vixxenMTB Brilliant. For cable pull of the L-twoo 12 speed road shifter, I am trying to work out if it will be the same as the miroshift 12 speed bar-end shifters BS-SR-M12-R which seem to be the only mechanical bar-end shifters for 12 speed in the market. The BS-SR-M12-R are compatible with "SRAM MTB 12 Speed X-Actuation" and I found it (in a forum only) it was likely to be 3.48mm cable pull for that. Another clue ios that L-TWOO also makes MTB 12 speed shifters and all advertised as 1:1 ratio (whcih does not mean much) like SRAM so there is a possibility the L-TWOO 12 speed shifters (road and MTB) will have the same cable pull as the BS-SR-M12-R shifters an the SRAM MTB 12 speed shifters. Anyone knows cable pull (in mm) for the L-TWOO 12 speed ?
🥖🥖🥖 well done another great video. I do hope your further adventures into the realms of UA-cam stardom plays out well. Like you, I too, was a bit nervous about hydraulic plumbing. But recently I bought an e-bike with the brakes the opposite way around to the BS Standard - that is rear on the right. I decided to swap the hydraulic lines over to get the front brake on the right lever. Now i was expecting to have to bleed the system and I bought all the stuff ready to do that. However, I just unscrewed the hydraulic lines and swapped them over. When I took the hydraulic lines out of a few drops of oil we lost. However once I reassembled the line into the opposite leavers, the whole system worked without any additional bleeding or adjustments. Not nearly as scary as I was expecting.
I've heard you can swap in the r7000 rear derailleur, but I've not tried it myself. Mixing and matching groupsets is a complete minefield, especially with these new 12 speed variants...
@@TraceVelo Thanks, I would love to know if they're worth a swap or not. I currently have rear and front R8000 derailleurs with Sensah Teampro Shifters. I would love to upgrade to Hydraulics as I'm currently using cable actuated disc brakes.
Now I feel bad for never sending a message of support so here goes... You are great!!! For next projects, think about doing crazy hack things like pairing a cues derailleur with road shifters and stuff.
🥖🥖🥖 Top Quality video as always Luke!! 🥖🥖🥖 Belated congratulations on going full time! Love your honest and upfront opinions on the alternative options offered in cycling hardware etc Really refreshing and greatly appreciated. Now you're full time, will there be any new additions to your content?
The shifting issues are almost certainly caused by the offset upper pulley wheel on the derailleur. In the big ring the pulley wheel is further away from the cassette causing sluggy shifting in the smaller cogs of the cassette. If you look at 2x derailleurs from SRAM and Shimano, they usually have a pulley wheel move with the cage pivot so the B-gap remains the same in the small and big ring.
This, usually you would see an offset pulley on a 1x derailleur with a more horizontal derailleur cage path, definitely a way for ltwoo to get away with the same derailleur for both 1x and 2x
You're doing a great job, I don't even ride road bikes. I watch because I find you entertaining. I ride mountain bikes but I like to keep up to date on things in the cycling industry and you fit the bill perfectly. 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Keep up.the good work Luke 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 and I do wonder when the electronic Chinese groupsets will come out 🤔 I would love to build a bike but I'm a chicken 😂😂 to buy some random Chinese bike frame
I got the LTwoo RX 12 and I am not happy with shifting, often noisy and not precise. Can I continue use the RX shifters and then install an Ultegra 11speed derailleur with 11 cassett, will it work together?
You know what? I especially waited for the next Trace Velo video for an order at Siroko because Luke gets a bit of that as well. About the group set - can you exchange that oxidising parts for Shimano or similar as well? Maybe it's worth looking for that. I still might convince myself to build a bike in my vacation - just for the experience, mainly, I am not so extreme active that my gravel bike would held me back - and that is another thing pulling me in that direction. Hydraulic breaking for about 200€... 🥖
Really the group set of the people is now 10 speed Tiagra. All the quality and a good price. You could save a couple of hundred going to the 11speed LT group but really is a couple of hundy worth the compromise? Love your videos thank you for your interesting contribution to the cycling product information available on YT.
Luke great review, do you know does the 11 speed hydro L TWOO operate Shimano standard? So for example I keep my R7000 mechs but upgrade to their hydro brakes and levers? As I currently run TRP SLR caliper a that are now needing replacing
Thanks for your videos! I’m already using LTWOO GRT 1x12 groupset. And it’s great ) The main reason I choose 12 speed is 10t on a cassette. So it’s 10% more than 11 speed. I’m and my friends from Russia loves your video! Have a good day 😊
Great content as per usual. Keep up the good work. Have you any plans to do a factory tour of one of these suppliers? That would be interesting to watch.
I've been running Shimano 12s mechanical on my two mountain bikes for a couple of years now, including the incredibly brutal Convict 100 XC marathon last month. NO issues at all with inconsistent shifting - I never have to adjust it, ever. So I think the comments on the reason why Shimano went all-electronic are speculative. I will say that the old-school cable routing used on L-Twoo is a pain in the ass with collecting grit and contamination in wet conditions and is a deal-killer for me, as replacing the cable outer down there after every wet ride is going to get old real fast. i'm glad to have gotten rid of my last bike with that system a few months ago. I much prefer the "Shadow+" routing that Shimano now uses, which uses gravity to minimise the amount of contamination that accumulates down there and messes with your shifting. Also less prone to having wear n the pivios affect shifting accuracy.
I think you are a true asset to the biking community on UA-cam. I have been using your recommendations for years for my parts selections with great success. Keep it up :0)
Hey Luke, Cheers from Brazil. Love thee content and I see you are a tinkerer. I've asked about their RD leverage ratio and received a response! It's 1:1 ratio, or as SRAM and Shimano latest 12s for MTB! If you are interested in making a video about it, feel free! Also about the indexing, I would call the laziness on downshifting on the cassete. If you can, try a Shimano cassete and chain. Cheers!
You are one of the most friendly and honest guys here at UA-cam. If someone should do this full time then it’s you. Looking forward to you next video. Cheers from Munich
From 8:30 to 8:53 anyone who's really going fot it knows how important those 4-5-6-7 shifts, sprinting all the way down to your 12t are. When the shifts are hanging up, even for half a second, there goes your PB right there. I would be playing with my barrel adjustments the whole ride.
Great to know that ur gonna focus on making videos, I always wished I could watch more of ur videos but they were quite rarely made ( 1 per week if Im not mistaken). Warm hug from Brazil 🤗.
I'm not suprised with you saying how finicky the 12 speed mechanical is. I've heard the same thing about Ekar with its 13 speeds. It works wonderfully but is very finicky about setup. Just too little room for error as you stated. As for your videos, you are about the only one who I immediately click to watch the video the moment one comes out. I've been watching your videos from the start and always enjoy them. And I will in all probability never buy a budget frame or groupset. Although, I do toy with the idea from time to time for the experience and to satisfy my curiosity. It would make for a fun bike for the trainer or for just messing about.
Nice one. I felt you speaking directly to me when you were talking about trepidation toward setting up / bleeding hydraulic brakes. Looks like I need to go watch another video. Thanks again for the great content! 🥖🥖🥖
These reviews and just your content in general are 10x more entertaining, informative, thorough, and fair than channels like GCN. AND your level of production is so good too!!! I wish there were more channels like yours since I always find myself wanting more!! Keep up the amazing work, Luke!! 🥳
The problem with this "cheap" set is: Shimano gives you cranks and chain+cassette at a very competitive price. Once you add it up, price difference isnt so pronounced. Also, weight difference kinda dissapears. Despite Shimano is aluminium.
Well, for the crankset I would always buy something used with a (best case) spider Powermeter or a simple Ultegra/105 crankset and a Stages/4iiii left power meter crank. @Trace Velo Are the Shimano based Stages/4iiii left sided power meter cranks compatible with Sensaticx-Cranksets? This would be phenomenal.
@@veganpotterthevegan whether or not the weight difference is sizable or not depends on your point of view. My bike and I come in at just over 100kg. A 500g saving on a groupset is about half a percent of the total mass. Half of percent is probably significant for a serious racer (pro) but for your average rider like me it's really neither here nor there. That said if somebody wants to spend that money on it, who am I to say otherwise.
@Five Minute Velo that weight difference is big when we're talking groupos. Plus you have the fact that this happens to be a lot cheaper while being lighter. That's atypical in the market.
Excellent longevity follow-up video. Hopefully the QA issues will be solved down the road. As for the anxiety and nervousness of diving into something that may or may not work out, I know how that feels. Keep at it Luke! 🥖
I bought the R9 version first, and loved it. After about 3 months I succumbed to 12 speed envy... Both are great, but my R9 group shifts better so it's back on the roadie 😁 going to build a gravel 1x soon with the 12 speed pieces.. Love the channel! 🥖🥖🥖
Flat mount is an open standard by Shimano, just like centerlock, SRAM's UDH and i think T47. So that doesn't have anything to do with why the brakes have to use that weird adapter.
Keep providing awesome content as long as you find it fulfilling and enjoyable and I hope the channel continues to support you both personally and financially. 🥖🥖 Thanks for all of the entertaining and informative perspectives on bike maintenance and parts.
I made the mistake of renting a full carbon road bike last week with a hydraulic groupset. Now I must have it! Videos like this go a long way in helping those of us on the fence about the more expensive aliexpress stuff (I have a couple of almost 100% aliexpress parts mountain bikes already, its so much fun building them!) But I have not done any road bike upgrades yet.
Rocking the Ltwoo GR9 on my gravel bike. Pulled the trigger after watching your video a while back. I agree that 11sp is definitely where its at for mechanical. Thanks for all your hard work and super helpful insight!
I find 12 speed quite appealing for larger cassettes and 1x configuration, even for road. So, for me: a 12 speed cassette (11-36) with 38 teeth oval in front, and first three cogs 11, 12, 13 and I'm fine. I don't sprint, I don't get very high speeds, why not enjoying 1x config? So, I'm fully open to 12 speeds. P.S. Those green brake calipers, they rule!
I’ve been running this groupset now for 6 weeks and overall I’m pretty happy. Yes tuning took a bit to get right but good now. The only problem I had was a faulty left shifter. The brake lever was very stiff and wouldn’t release quickly. I’m glad to say the Aliexpress store replaced it fairly promptly. I agree with you on 11sp option purely for the amount of parts available. I had to compromise on certain aspects of the build. I’d give it a 7.5 out of 10 so far.
I got this set after your reviews. very happy with the purchase, thank you for the review. your videos are great. good luck with your art. you are the only blogger whose video I watch immediately (IMMEDIATELY) after the appearance. The main thing is to be happy.
Dude. Your awsome. I've been telling every one of my bike friends about the great bike parts from china. I'm glad that someone like yourself is able to show everyone on UA-cam how great these parts are.
The thing you are saying about 12speed mechanical is totally false. Shimano is well capable of doing mechanical perfect shifting. They have been done this for years on the mountain bike groupsets. And the same is Sram. And Campagnolo on road groupsets. And Campagnolo even on 13speed groupsets. This groupset is just BAD, if it shift like you shown in your video. By the way, what do you expect from not even having proper matching chain, chainring and cassette? This Chinese groupset is not even a groupset... you have to rely on other manufacturer for the mentioned missing but CRUCIAL components. It's not a thing like "it's beyond human possibilities to have reliable mechanical shifting on 12 speed". Clearly you are biased in favour of Chinese groupset, if you think so.
Luke. I'm catching up with your videos. Just wanted to endorse what others are saying. You are a fantastic broadcaster. Your videos are detailed, impartial, humerous and interesting. Please keep up the great work. Thank You.
It's true, Luke. Well Done. Wonder if you would be planning to do anything about bicycle locks and security? I'm currently in the process of looking to buy a good one. Cheers
I love my 12 speed and definitely look forward to 13 speed. I'd have 13 now if I liked the Ekar cassette ranges but I don't. I have 5 drop bar bikes and only 1 is 1x. With 13sp, I'd probably only have 2x on one of them.
Do L-Twoo and the like do any more budget friendly 8 or 9 speeds? If so, would you take a look at them in a vid? Sort of like an ultra budget vid. Thanks. 🥖🥖🥖
Hi, Luke. Im planning to buy this groupset from ltwoo official shop. would you still recommend this or should i spend the extra cash for a shimano 105? thank you
Love your stuff Luke and have just taken the plunge and am waiting for a Sensah SRX Pro 1x11 and L-Twoo GR9 1x11 set up to arrive,with respective Senicx cranksets for my CX and Gravel bikes.🥖🥖🥖 Do you know if the 28.9mm Senicx BBs take a standard sized SRAM DUB bearing? Keep up the good work.
Hi Luke, I have the RX 2x12 speed and yes, after 11 months and 3500 km the front deraillor lever snapped in two when shifting to the big ring. 😢. Do you think the rear deraillor is compatible with Shimano 105 12-speed shifters?
Are there LTWOO RX groups for mechanical breaks? I am asking because I am fine with my brakes but was thinking about changing the drive for a 2x12. I've seen some RX groups tagged as "rim breaks" is there any way to know if the brifters will work with mechanical brakes? Edit: Upon actually watching the video like a normal human being, I'll probably goo with the 2x11 R9, I still don't know if there are mechanical and hydraulic versions though. :)
Thank you for the review, Trace Velo. You Rock!! Question for you: I'm in the market to buy 2x11 shifters (my 105 shifters need replacement) Which one would you choose for a mechanical shifter pair: The Ltwoo R9 or the Sensah Team Pro? Thanks again
Luke, you are THE reference for chinese bike part reviews! When the likes of Shimano and Sram are hitting the clouds with hi tech, high prices, an increasing number of us mortals are looking to you for the more down to Earth affordable alternatives! Keep them coming!!
Thanks Andy! Yeah now I just need to get my hands on the ERX electronic groupo from L-TWOO!!!!
@@TraceVeloIsn't a 105 di2 even cheaper?
There is NOTHING hi-tech about bikes. It's all quite lower end technology compared to cars or moto-cycles. It is all just an exercise in excessive marketing.
@@rosomak8244indeed but its interesting to see cheap stuff coming out of China
There is me, just a mortal going trek Emonda ALR with SRAM red axs and axs dropper (building myself)
Yes right I agree...it's the 12-speed arms race that's frustrating...go for the 11-speed mechanical so the indexing isn't so sensitive. 2 x 11 is absolutely fine gearing wise, even with a wide range 11 - 34 as they keep the jumps small down at business end of the cassette. Also good luck with going full-time on the channel...the videos are superb and you've nearly cracked 100k subscribers. Live long and prosper, chief.
Thanks Simon, yeah totally with you. 12 speed on electronic groupsets make sense, on mechanical it's a bit of a marketing gimmick. It can work, and I actually tuned the shifting up a little more after editing this video, so it is pretty much perfect, but it's just so finicky. 11 speed is still where it's at for mechanical groupsets!
It also locks you out of certain gear ranges too if you are on an HG freehub, for Gravel basically it's 50T+ cassette mullet or nothing. I almost made this mistake I had The GRT in the basket, then went looking for a 12 speed HG 11-40 and they don't exist! Ironically having the 1 extra gear would have given me 2 less usable gears.
@@TraceVelo For the crankset I would always buy something used with a (best case) spider Powermeter or a simple Ultegra/105 crankset and a Stages/4iiii left power meter crank. @Trace Velo Are the Shimano based Stages/4iiii left sided power meter cranks compatible with Sensaticx-Cranksets, like the included PR4 crankset from them? This would be phenomenal. From the pictures, it looks very Shimano like. What inner bottom bracket do they actually use in this shimano styled crankset, because they also have real SRAM dub cranksets as I've seen.
I have a Ratio Technology 12sp ratchet in old 11sp Red shifters and the indexing is extremely simple and I'm not doing regular adjustments.
@@DanikoLPThat's good timing. I was just servicing my PR4 and happened to have a new Ultegra crank nearby (waiting for a frame to go in) I checked and the arm does fit on the PR4. I put one on my gravel bike during the "parts shortage" (over 16000km on it so far no issues) It uses a standard 24mm spindle the BB I'm running a Hope BSA (road).
The PR4 is a little heavy, in many ways its a bit like an old Shimano MTB crank with a narrow Q-Factor, but I see no reason to swap it out for the GRX I originally wanted unless it fails or wears out. By that time I might actually be able to buy a GRX in 165!
Trace Velo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GCN
I think the corrosion might have to do with galvanic corrosion due to brake dust from the pads. The pads have different metals in them as compared to the nut. When these differently charged metals come into contact an electrochemical process starts, causing the corrosion. This will be accelerated by the presence of salt, acting as a good electronic and ionic conductor.
Also, Shimano paints the bolts and the nuts above the threads as well. Road salt would explain it being on downward side and simply a mild coating that was easily affected. I live by saltwater so galvanic corrosion is a daily condition.
It will be galvanic corrosion from the difference in metals between the calliper and the bolt. One will be steel and the other aluminium. The zinc coating on the bolt will be the sacrificial material. The callipers would dissolve if not.
Couldn't agree more on the 11 speed spec. I can't justify the jump to 12. Also appreciated the look inside the caliper to show the guts. Keep up the great videos 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Yeah with any mechanical groupset, I wouldn't bother right now, stick with 11 for sure!
Wow I just ordered it the 12 speed before watching this video ! Hopefully it be fine !
@Tracevelo - Brillant videos and work, love the format of your videos and the UA-cam comments from the community also very valuable. Having read near most on this video, it seems to me that: a)divided opinions on need for 12 speed need be investigated in further videos, but I think it should be 10 x 2 vs 11 x 2 vs 12 x1 where the 12 x 1 use a casette like 9-46(xdr drive). ...and b) 12 speed being finicky on the l-twoo shifters to be explored further as good comment suggestions include use of special 12 speed campagnolo cables and use of shimano grx derailleur and caliper.
Trace Velo is definitely up there as one of UA-cam's go-to cycling channels, with all the quality reviews and builds Luke has put up in his videos through the years. Definitely, I would be one to vouch for the knowledge I gained from watching these quirky vids that entertain me so much. No matter what happens Luke, we'll always be here to leave baguettes in the comment section in every upload. 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
exactly. also his enthusiasm is so nice to watch. you don't get that scamaroni feeling you get from many other channels
😊
Trying brand named bike gear during Holliday's??what a disappointment 😂😂😂 the baguette army will get you 🥖🥖🥖🥖
Thanks for your videos!
Hey Luke, it's really touching how upfront you were about whats a stressful move away from 'regular employment'. The community has always admired your willingness to take risks and impart the knowledge (good or bad) that comes with the well documented experience you publish. Congratulations again for following what you believe in🥖❤
🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Yet again great advice and tips, esp 11 vs 12 speed - we won't get this anywhere else!
BTW don't stress. Do what you do best - it will work out😊
Best wishes all round💪💪🤘🥖🏆🤘💪
Cheers JibbaJabber!!!! Have an official Trace Velo baguette on the house 🥖
70mm spacing on the calipers is super weird... that makes it (almost?) impossible to use on postmount frames, which is really unfortunate for gravel conversions using mtb frames for example.
Ps regarding your message at the end - I think we all forget that you don’t know us as well as we think we know you! Good luck with it mate 🥖
Cheers Alex! You folks are all strangers, but I love the support, really keeps me moving forward!
This mimics my experience with the GRT very well. It's very finicky in the harder gears, especially the second hardest. I actually found it worked best with a Sram 12 speed road cassette, a Rival XPLR 10-44, than Shimano spaced 12 speed road (Sram is spaced ever so slightly wider).
Keeping portions of the cable that are bare against the plastic/resin of the shifter and derailleur a little lubricated and clean really helps with those downshifts in the harder gears. What's causing the lazy shifting is that the shifter releases the cable fully but resistance along the cable's path, and a lack of strong enough spring tension in the derailleur's lateral movement, keep the cable from being pulled all the way immediately at the derailleur end when there is less cable tension. As you found, keeping tight turns out of the cable housing really helps.
I think if L-Twoo just had a stronger spring pulling the derailleur outboard (thus putting more static tension on the cable and pulling on it more strongly from downshifts), the problem would go away and the shifting would be crisp all the way down the cassette.
As a point of interest, I'm currently running the shifters with a GRX 810-series rear derailleur, and this has improved the downshift quality immensely. The L-Twoo RX, GRT, and R9 shifters all pull the same cable ratio as Shimano Road 11-speed derailleurs, so it's all full interchangeable :)
edited to add: pull the shifter hood cover back and watch the exposed bit of cable as you downshift; you can see it doesn't pull all the way at lower cable tension/harder gears and takes a second to let all the way out
Yes its a parallelogram spring tension issue. 20 year old shimano have this issue with the spring weakening, ltwoo must be using the worse quality spring steel so I think my shifting will get much worse. I'm going to try to tie up 2 or 3 coils to increase the tension with some kevlar thread I have.
The high gear limit screw also fouls if you screw it in too far.
Interesting.. would have guessed they use sram road pull ratio like Sensah does. Does it shift as well as all GRX now? My Sensah RD gave up on me after a year and I’m running a sram apex one with Sensah shifters. (But the breaking suuuucks)
Thanks @vixxenMTB . Are you basically using L-twoo 12 speed shifters with shimano GRX 11 speed derailleur? Am trying to establish if the pull ration of L-twoo 12 speed shifter is same as shimano 11 speed grx shifter! By the way, this mean lots of upgrade possible, could imagine buying only the l-twoo shifters and buying dérailleurs and calipers from Shimano.
@@MoiseCoulon17 that's actually exactly what's on my main bike, now! Just the L-twoo shifters, a Shimano GRX-RX812 11 speed RD, and Shimano flat mount brake calipers. The L-Twoo brake calipers are fine, just sort of heavy and inelegant with the adapters
@@vixxenMTB Brilliant. For cable pull of the L-twoo 12 speed road shifter, I am trying to work out if it will be the same as the miroshift 12 speed bar-end shifters BS-SR-M12-R which seem to be the only mechanical bar-end shifters for 12 speed in the market. The BS-SR-M12-R are compatible with "SRAM MTB 12 Speed X-Actuation" and I found it (in a forum only) it was likely to be 3.48mm cable pull for that. Another clue ios that L-TWOO also makes MTB 12 speed shifters and all advertised as 1:1 ratio (whcih does not mean much) like SRAM so there is a possibility the L-TWOO 12 speed shifters (road and MTB) will have the same cable pull as the BS-SR-M12-R shifters an the SRAM MTB 12 speed shifters. Anyone knows cable pull (in mm) for the L-TWOO 12 speed ?
🥖🥖🥖 well done another great video. I do hope your further adventures into the realms of UA-cam stardom plays out well.
Like you, I too, was a bit nervous about hydraulic plumbing. But recently I bought an e-bike with the brakes the opposite way around to the BS Standard - that is rear on the right. I decided to swap the hydraulic lines over to get the front brake on the right lever. Now i was expecting to have to bleed the system and I bought all the stuff ready to do that. However, I just unscrewed the hydraulic lines and swapped them over. When I took the hydraulic lines out of a few drops of oil we lost. However once I reassembled the line into the opposite leavers, the whole system worked without any additional bleeding or adjustments. Not nearly as scary as I was expecting.
🥖🥖🥖Hey Luke, great video as always! I'd love to see a video on what tools and equipment you need to have to build up a bike from scratch. 🥖🥖🥖
Would it be possible to swap the derailleurs with Shimano ones? Referring to Ultegra R8000 or 105 R7000. Assuming that you get the 11 Speed version.
I've heard you can swap in the r7000 rear derailleur, but I've not tried it myself. Mixing and matching groupsets is a complete minefield, especially with these new 12 speed variants...
@@TraceVelo Thanks, I would love to know if they're worth a swap or not. I currently have rear and front R8000 derailleurs with Sensah Teampro Shifters. I would love to upgrade to Hydraulics as I'm currently using cable actuated disc brakes.
Now I feel bad for never sending a message of support so here goes... You are great!!!
For next projects, think about doing crazy hack things like pairing a cues derailleur with road shifters and stuff.
Another cracker Luke, can't wait until you 🥖 on with your next video! You're already smashing it out of the park into someone's front room. 👍
Has Sensah done a hydraulic setup yet? It feels like L-TWOO have stolen a bit of a march on them recently.
Yeah they have one, but it looks pretty ugly, and it's not hit mass production yet. I'll try and get my hands on one as soon as it's available!
🥖🥖🥖 Top Quality video as always Luke!! 🥖🥖🥖
Belated congratulations on going full time! Love your honest and upfront opinions on the alternative options offered in cycling hardware etc Really refreshing and greatly appreciated.
Now you're full time, will there be any new additions to your content?
The shifting issues are almost certainly caused by the offset upper pulley wheel on the derailleur. In the big ring the pulley wheel is further away from the cassette causing sluggy shifting in the smaller cogs of the cassette. If you look at 2x derailleurs from SRAM and Shimano, they usually have a pulley wheel move with the cage pivot so the B-gap remains the same in the small and big ring.
This, usually you would see an offset pulley on a 1x derailleur with a more horizontal derailleur cage path, definitely a way for ltwoo to get away with the same derailleur for both 1x and 2x
Excellent video as per usual. Thanks for what you do. I've purchased gear because of your testing. 🥖
You're doing a great job, I don't even ride road bikes. I watch because I find you entertaining. I ride mountain bikes but I like to keep up to date on things in the cycling industry and you fit the bill perfectly. 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Keep up.the good work Luke 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 and I do wonder when the electronic Chinese groupsets will come out 🤔 I would love to build a bike but I'm a chicken 😂😂 to buy some random Chinese bike frame
I got the LTwoo RX 12 and I am not happy with shifting, often noisy and not precise. Can I continue use the RX shifters and then install an Ultegra 11speed derailleur with 11 cassett, will it work together?
As always, what quality video, keep up the good work, and never doubt you have done the right thing. 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
You know what? I especially waited for the next Trace Velo video for an order at Siroko because Luke gets a bit of that as well.
About the group set - can you exchange that oxidising parts for Shimano or similar as well? Maybe it's worth looking for that. I still might convince myself to build a bike in my vacation - just for the experience, mainly, I am not so extreme active that my gravel bike would held me back - and that is another thing pulling me in that direction. Hydraulic breaking for about 200€...
🥖
you make really good content. the editing is top notch 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
It’s great to see these updates. Not many (if any) reviewers actually use the products for a good while!
This is my favorite bike channel by far 🥖🥖🥖
Really the group set of the people is now 10 speed Tiagra. All the quality and a good price. You could save a couple of hundred going to the 11speed LT group but really is a couple of hundy worth the compromise? Love your videos thank you for your interesting contribution to the cycling product information available on YT.
Love your detailed reviews, Luke. And no, this won't go down in flames. Missed the intro music though. 🥖
🥖🥖🥖 yes Luke, very brave decision to go full time, I feel your worry but you're smashing it.
Luke great review, do you know does the 11 speed hydro L TWOO operate Shimano standard? So for example I keep my R7000 mechs but upgrade to their hydro brakes and levers? As I currently run TRP SLR caliper a that are now needing replacing
Thanks for your videos!
I’m already using LTWOO GRT 1x12 groupset. And it’s great )
The main reason I choose 12 speed is 10t on a cassette. So it’s 10% more than 11 speed.
I’m and my friends from Russia loves your video!
Have a good day 😊
Great content as per usual. Keep up the good work. Have you any plans to do a factory tour of one of these suppliers? That would be interesting to watch.
🥖🥖🥖 You're awesome Luke! Keep it up and the sky's the limit
Congrats on the full time channel. I been watching for a few years now even though I cant afford to build a bike lol 🥖🥖🥖
I've been running Shimano 12s mechanical on my two mountain bikes for a couple of years now, including the incredibly brutal Convict 100 XC marathon last month. NO issues at all with inconsistent shifting - I never have to adjust it, ever. So I think the comments on the reason why Shimano went all-electronic are speculative.
I will say that the old-school cable routing used on L-Twoo is a pain in the ass with collecting grit and contamination in wet conditions and is a deal-killer for me, as replacing the cable outer down there after every wet ride is going to get old real fast. i'm glad to have gotten rid of my last bike with that system a few months ago.
I much prefer the "Shadow+" routing that Shimano now uses, which uses gravity to minimise the amount of contamination that accumulates down there and messes with your shifting. Also less prone to having wear n the pivios affect shifting accuracy.
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I think you are a true asset to the biking community on UA-cam. I have been using your recommendations for years for my parts selections with great success. Keep it up :0)
Great video Luke! Have an extra Baguette 🥖 for going pro! 💪😎
Hey Luke, Cheers from Brazil. Love thee content and I see you are a tinkerer.
I've asked about their RD leverage ratio and received a response! It's 1:1 ratio, or as SRAM and Shimano latest 12s for MTB! If you are interested in making a video about it, feel free!
Also about the indexing, I would call the laziness on downshifting on the cassete. If you can, try a Shimano cassete and chain.
Cheers!
You are one of the most friendly and honest guys here at UA-cam. If someone should do this full time then it’s you.
Looking forward to you next video. Cheers from Munich
From 8:30 to 8:53 anyone who's really going fot it knows how important those 4-5-6-7 shifts, sprinting all the way down to your 12t are. When the shifts are hanging up, even for half a second, there goes your PB right there. I would be playing with my barrel adjustments the whole ride.
Great to know that ur gonna focus on making videos, I always wished I could watch more of ur videos but they were quite rarely made ( 1 per week if Im not mistaken). Warm hug from Brazil 🤗.
You're doing a great job... 😁👌🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Thanks for another great review. It looks like you tried a lot of cassette variations. Which Chinese made cassette would you say performed the best?
I'm not suprised with you saying how finicky the 12 speed mechanical is. I've heard the same thing about Ekar with its 13 speeds. It works wonderfully but is very finicky about setup. Just too little room for error as you stated.
As for your videos, you are about the only one who I immediately click to watch the video the moment one comes out. I've been watching your videos from the start and always enjoy them. And I will in all probability never buy a budget frame or groupset. Although, I do toy with the idea from time to time for the experience and to satisfy my curiosity. It would make for a fun bike for the trainer or for just messing about.
Absolutely, I was thinking about the 13 speed stuff yesterday actually. The indexing must be SO finiky
Use a 12s Shimano cassette and 12s Shimano chain with Ltwoo: it works better
I think people would watch your channel Luke no matter you were testing👍
Nice one. I felt you speaking directly to me when you were talking about trepidation toward setting up / bleeding hydraulic brakes. Looks like I need to go watch another video. Thanks again for the great content! 🥖🥖🥖
These reviews and just your content in general are 10x more entertaining, informative, thorough, and fair than channels like GCN. AND your level of production is so good too!!! I wish there were more channels like yours since I always find myself wanting more!! Keep up the amazing work, Luke!! 🥳
Thanks Shaan, what an awesome comment! I always put my all into these videos, so glad that is coming across!
Great level of detail (and entertainment) as usual!
The problem with this "cheap" set is: Shimano gives you cranks and chain+cassette at a very competitive price. Once you add it up, price difference isnt so pronounced. Also, weight difference kinda dissapears. Despite Shimano is aluminium.
I agree, sort of. Things are not always straightforward and the buyer needs to be canny: ua-cam.com/video/IgfcaWE7Nb8/v-deo.html
Well, for the crankset I would always buy something used with a (best case) spider Powermeter or a simple Ultegra/105 crankset and a Stages/4iiii left power meter crank. @Trace Velo Are the Shimano based Stages/4iiii left sided power meter cranks compatible with Sensaticx-Cranksets? This would be phenomenal.
Weight difference is sizeable when you add any Shimano crank that's not Dura Ace.
@@veganpotterthevegan whether or not the weight difference is sizable or not depends on your point of view. My bike and I come in at just over 100kg. A 500g saving on a groupset is about half a percent of the total mass. Half of percent is probably significant for a serious racer (pro) but for your average rider like me it's really neither here nor there. That said if somebody wants to spend that money on it, who am I to say otherwise.
@Five Minute Velo that weight difference is big when we're talking groupos. Plus you have the fact that this happens to be a lot cheaper while being lighter. That's atypical in the market.
Excellent longevity follow-up video. Hopefully the QA issues will be solved down the road. As for the anxiety and nervousness of diving into something that may or may not work out, I know how that feels. Keep at it Luke! 🥖
Informative and entertaining. Thank you!
Great video's Luke. Keep 'em coming great to hear your comments on all the chinese kit that is available on-line these days!
12 speed is pointless for 2 by. 12 speed for 1 by is a must.
Top man Luke all the best going forward look forward to more of your in-depth informative vids
I bought the R9 version first, and loved it. After about 3 months I succumbed to 12 speed envy... Both are great, but my R9 group shifts better so it's back on the roadie 😁 going to build a gravel 1x soon with the 12 speed pieces.. Love the channel! 🥖🥖🥖
22:10
strangers? whatdoyoumean? i'm subscribed, you are are family.
Thanks yurimow!!! ❤️
Really enjoy your content. Thanks Luke. I've learned a lot watching you. And I love a good budget build. Great work. 🥖
Flat mount is an open standard by Shimano, just like centerlock, SRAM's UDH and i think T47. So that doesn't have anything to do with why the brakes have to use that weird adapter.
Yeah from doing a bit of reading around this, you are right, it is an open standard... The plot thickens 🤔
Keep providing awesome content as long as you find it fulfilling and enjoyable and I hope the channel continues to support you both personally and financially. 🥖🥖 Thanks for all of the entertaining and informative perspectives on bike maintenance and parts.
Great as always... but no need for a new groups at the moment 🥖🥖🥖
We need the ERX groupset review!!!
Luke thank you for your work!!! You are a great 🥖!!!
You're killing it!! Definitely my favourite channel for a weekly uplift and happy that you're happy!!🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
Great video. Thank you Luke
I made the mistake of renting a full carbon road bike last week with a hydraulic groupset. Now I must have it! Videos like this go a long way in helping those of us on the fence about the more expensive aliexpress stuff (I have a couple of almost 100% aliexpress parts mountain bikes already, its so much fun building them!) But I have not done any road bike upgrades yet.
Rocking the Ltwoo GR9 on my gravel bike. Pulled the trigger after watching your video a while back. I agree that 11sp is definitely where its at for mechanical. Thanks for all your hard work and super helpful insight!
Wishing you all the best! Love your channel!
I find 12 speed quite appealing for larger cassettes and 1x configuration, even for road.
So, for me: a 12 speed cassette (11-36) with 38 teeth oval in front, and first three cogs 11, 12, 13 and I'm fine. I don't sprint, I don't get very high speeds, why not enjoying 1x config?
So, I'm fully open to 12 speeds.
P.S. Those green brake calipers, they rule!
Luke! I am……….in awe of your legendary oriental bike part’s knowledge and skills ✊🏾👌🏾👌🏾🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖
This man walks so we can all run
I’ve been running this groupset now for 6 weeks and overall I’m pretty happy. Yes tuning took a bit to get right but good now. The only problem I had was a faulty left shifter. The brake lever was very stiff and wouldn’t release quickly. I’m glad to say the Aliexpress store replaced it fairly promptly. I agree with you on 11sp option purely for the amount of parts available. I had to compromise on certain aspects of the build. I’d give it a 7.5 out of 10 so far.
I got this set after your reviews. very happy with the purchase, thank you for the review. your videos are great. good luck with your art. you are the only blogger whose video I watch immediately (IMMEDIATELY) after the appearance. The main thing is to be happy.
1x11 gr 9 groupset )
Very good advice to stick to 11 speed for mechanical shifting. Great video as always. 🥖🥖🥖
I'm running all XTR 😂
Awesome! One of my favorite YT channels 💯👍🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 Support from The Philippines 💯
Keep going Luke 🎉🎉🎉
Keepup the good work!
Been watching since 2020 and learned a ton of stuff. More power to you!
Dude. Your awsome. I've been telling every one of my bike friends about the great bike parts from china. I'm glad that someone like yourself is able to show everyone on UA-cam how great these parts are.
The thing you are saying about 12speed mechanical is totally false. Shimano is well capable of doing mechanical perfect shifting. They have been done this for years on the mountain bike groupsets. And the same is Sram. And Campagnolo on road groupsets. And Campagnolo even on 13speed groupsets. This groupset is just BAD, if it shift like you shown in your video. By the way, what do you expect from not even having proper matching chain, chainring and cassette? This Chinese groupset is not even a groupset... you have to rely on other manufacturer for the mentioned missing but CRUCIAL components. It's not a thing like "it's beyond human possibilities to have reliable mechanical shifting on 12 speed". Clearly you are biased in favour of Chinese groupset, if you think so.
Ya let them chase 12 speed market... It make 11 speed system more affordable n lots of choices.. Always looking forward to your videos...
Great intensive review again Luke! I always learn allot from watching your vids! Both entertaining and informative
Luke. I'm catching up with your videos. Just wanted to endorse what others are saying. You are a fantastic broadcaster. Your videos are detailed, impartial, humerous and interesting. Please keep up the great work. Thank You.
Thanks so much William, what an awesome comment!!! I really try my best with these episodes, so glad that is coming across! 😁
It's true, Luke. Well Done. Wonder if you would be planning to do anything about bicycle locks and security? I'm currently in the process of looking to buy a good one. Cheers
I really appreciate your positive attitude even when things aren't perfect. Cycling should always be fun! Long time subscriber.
Nice job Luke, always great. I certainly don't know what the need is for 12 speeds or even 13. 11 is plenty, plus indexing is less of an issue.
I love my 12 speed and definitely look forward to 13 speed. I'd have 13 now if I liked the Ekar cassette ranges but I don't. I have 5 drop bar bikes and only 1 is 1x. With 13sp, I'd probably only have 2x on one of them.
Do L-Twoo and the like do any more budget friendly 8 or 9 speeds? If so, would you take a look at them in a vid? Sort of like an ultra budget vid. Thanks. 🥖🥖🥖
Not really. They make this in 10 speed tho, which is as low as it's reasonable, because going even lower isn't going to make it any cheaper.
@@michaelmechex thanks
This guy does fantastic reviews and is so genuine!
Hi, Luke. Im planning to buy this groupset from ltwoo official shop. would you still recommend this or should i spend the extra cash for a shimano 105? thank you
Our boy was in Lanzarote for some holidays 💁🏽♀👏🏼👏🏼🥖
Nice Video ... but even the R9 costs currently between 285 - nearly 400€ ...I stay with my Tiagra 4600 🤷♂
Love your stuff Luke and have just taken the plunge and am waiting for a Sensah SRX Pro 1x11 and L-Twoo GR9 1x11 set up to arrive,with respective Senicx cranksets for my CX and Gravel bikes.🥖🥖🥖
Do you know if the 28.9mm Senicx BBs take a standard sized SRAM DUB bearing?
Keep up the good work.
Luke, because of you my new/old MTB project has some lovely looking ZRace cranks on it. 🥖🥖🥖Keep going! 🥖🥖🥖
Hi Luke, I have the RX 2x12 speed and yes, after 11 months and 3500 km the front deraillor lever snapped in two when shifting to the big ring. 😢. Do you think the rear deraillor is compatible with Shimano 105 12-speed shifters?
🥖🥖🥖 What's your recommendation for a leightweight but durable 11s cassette? Love your channel and your humor. You're it!
Been watching all your videos....your doing a great job! 🥖🥖🥖
Are there LTWOO RX groups for mechanical breaks? I am asking because I am fine with my brakes but was thinking about changing the drive for a 2x12. I've seen some RX groups tagged as "rim breaks" is there any way to know if the brifters will work with mechanical brakes?
Edit: Upon actually watching the video like a normal human being, I'll probably goo with the 2x11 R9, I still don't know if there are mechanical and hydraulic versions though. :)
This may seem like a very American thing for me to say, but I think Luke would make a great Doctor Who.
Thank you for the review, Trace Velo. You Rock!!
Question for you: I'm in the market to buy 2x11 shifters (my 105 shifters need replacement)
Which one would you choose for a mechanical shifter pair:
The Ltwoo R9 or the Sensah Team Pro?
Thanks again