Why my Japanese is so weird / 自分の日本語は何故おかしいのか
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2020
- Learn Japanese pitch-accent and pronunciation from my Patreon Series "Japanese Phonetics"
/ dogen
Dogen / Japanese / Why my Japanese is weird / Why my Japanese is odd / Japanese Pronunciation / Uncle Magnet / 自分の日本語は何故おかしいのか / 日本語 / 日本語の発音 / 日本語 / オヤジ・マグネット / オヤジマグネット / 落語 - Комедії
This video is basically a student explaining to his parents why he got a 99% instead of an 100% but actually being disappointed
I love this analogy. Dead on, friend!
To be fair, 99% is much more disappointing than, say, 95%
when you spend so much time on something you can't really help but be overly conscious of your weaknesses/habits, and it can be very hard to either let go of them or fix them. it's very different from getting 99% on a test you'll forget in a week or so
But my Ling Ling speaks 400% better.
true but i totaly get him...
jokes on you i cant understand japanese
Your username is very relatable, I love it.
"Laziness", haha
Dang, you so lucky D:
lmao
Best comment
Jokes on you, I can't read
Looks like Dogen finished the main game and is now stressing about all those side quests and hunting down small upgrades.
You: complain that you can't beat this hard boss
Dogen: complains that he hasn't been able to one-shot it yet
Learning Japanese is like DQ with expansions.
@@rhadamantesomething3020 😂
He's now min-maxing his character.
Yakuza in a nutshell
This is what overthinking about overthinking looks like...
I'm gonna need some time to think about it.
wait thats illegal
its important to know what you`re doing wrong at a high level to actively go about fixing it sooooo...
“Yeah my Japanese is terrible sometimes” *speaks for 52 minutes non-stop in Japanese covering multiple points*
sometimes
たしかに
His way to shake his hands while speaking japanese is pretty disturbing....
しかしどうなんだろう なんかこ-
It’s the same as Japanese people
When Japanese read a script, they always sound weird
I’m Japanese, but I will sound strange as well when I read a line
Xi?!
What are you doing here?!
@@dejp9619 Hi, I'm from the Communist party and I need you to come with us
3:49 I think rather it means that by having it scripted you don’t say ええと which as everyone knows is the most vital part of japanese fundamentals
I think you are right, when Dōgen uses a script he usually doesn't use that many expletives, while Japanese people like to use them a lot because (I think) it gives them time to think how and what to say
That's what I thought.
Also when he is thinking he doesn't do that either. I do the same mistake with Spanish and other languages. When I'm thinking I do back to a "hã" sound if it makes sense.
I'm Brazilian but my second language is English and I do say "ummm"... but then it took me years to become fluent as I am self taught. I started learning as a child with online translators and just talking to people.
My speaking and listening skills aren't as good as they should be. I'm not that eloquent as I want to be, either. But I have the same problem with Portuguese which is my native language.
My accent is a weird mix of English with Scottish and whatever else.
I guess we always sound good when talking to ourselves but not when speaking to other people.
This is like being in a language class on presentation day and the guy, who is usually the best in class, is suddenly nervous for some reason.
That's because he's got a bomb strapped to his chest.
In this 15 minutes video he didn't misuse any particles including は and が.
I don't think he actually flips a coin. I'm simply amazed.
Thanks Yoko! I think it was just 運が良かった haha
One is a subject and one is an object?
@@RonaldMcPaul oh young child, how I wish I still lived in these blissful times.
@@RonaldMcPaul
No, は and が both mark subjects, を is the object marker particle.
The way it was explained to me is that は and が differ mainly in certainty within a scope/context. For example, say someone is speaking about a variety of things on a desk in front of them. 「これ*は*ぺんです」 is equivalent to "This is *a* pen [without comment on any other thing in this context]." whereas 「これ*が*ぺんです」 is equivalent to "This is *the* pen [among these things, and nothing else in this context is a pen]."
The は example is speaking only about the indicated pen; no comment is made about the other things on the desk. In fact, they could also be pens, the sentence doesn't give any information about them at all.
The が example is speaking about the indicated pen in contrast/opposition to the other things. Among the things in question, only the indicated thing is a pen. The rest of the things are definitely *not* pens.
There are other nuances that I don't understand well enough to articulate (or even be confident that I'm correct about!), but the above explanation helped me.
cure dolly sensei asserts that が is always the subject marker, and only が. Its just that が is often only implied and は is merely a marker of a point of interest within the sentence. Although the point of interest often is the same as the implied が. Using this method of analysis, I don't have any of the usual problems with the two particles.
It does indeed feel "less natural" yet it is because you are perfoming, like you said already. We watch your content and we know you are performing. It doesn't feel less natural, or not in a negative way whatsoever. it isn't something necessarily bad to come off as less natural, for when you are performing a script, it is only natural to sound less natural. I've lost count on how many times i've said less natural
Saying less natural this many times in normal speech sounds...
Grammatically correct, B+
@@limerlynx4796 Saying less natural this many times sounds less natural I guess (?)
When he started describing folks noticing an oddity in his style that they could not explain I had flashbacks to a certain 2005 RPG. I then was half expecting the reason to be a former sensei purposefully having trained an exploit into Dogen's Japanese so that they could eventually betray him and take over the channel when the time was right.
Out of the loop, what would that game be?
I was cognizant of the gaming scene in '05, but I don't remember this! I'm also very curious!
He's referring to Jade Emprie. From tvtropes: It is revealed that your master deliberately built in weaknesses into your fighting style, so that he could take you down after revealing that his name, Sun Li The Glorious Strategist was well-earned. The weakness is mentioned repeatedly by various masters, one even suggesting that your technique seems as if it tricks opponents into seeing an opening that isn't there. It was specifically designed by Sun Li in such a way that only he can take advantage of it and no one else.
@@carcrashjayson Goddamn, that is some next-level shit.
It brings warmth to my heart to see that you have kept the basics at heart.
Even the flaws.
I can't believe that all this time I thought your 日本語 was うまい.
Omg i am learing to write and recognize for the past 150 days and i still don't understand your comment 😔
@@8balljunkie you can't read hiragana yet?
@@kittiecandy747 i thought i could but i can't. Still Need loads of practice and patience
@@8balljunkie this has been the best resource if you're still struggling: www.tofugu.com/japanese/learn-hiragana/
I've learned the main hiragana characters in like 3 days (because i couldn't spend as much time as i'd like on it) and am moving on to the combination hiragana and dakuten. seriously, follow their guide/lesson plan exactly and you'll be amazed how much you're retaining. i think ultimately once you're comfortable with all the hiragana and katakana you still need to practice (i'll probably use anki for this) but also just... reading probably counts a lot towards practice and helping you retain the characters. eventually it will become second nature. i'm not there yet, but that's the thing that takes all sorts of extra practice :)
@@8balljunkie it reads “umai” which means delicious.
I'm fluent in Japanese. If I were blind or closed my eyes I wouldn't be able to tell that you were a white American guy speaking Japanese. It sounds native enough you could have fooled me.
Are you Japanese
crissyisajojofan I’m Japanese. His Japanese is really good but it is not native level I guess.
My native speaker friend described his Japanese as "very good but audibly non-native"
I'm lost, what's the need for the "white" in that sentence. Would've made a difference if he were black?
I thought he was half
Doesn't matter how you sound. I'm hear for that sexy hair and that minimalistic background decor. Oh and by the way, would love a full rendition of Uncle Magnet at some point.
Hello, hear!
I'm only 3 minutes into the video.
The point about the script just got raised which reminded me that when I showed a few of your skits to my gf, she suddenly pointed out how she felt that you were reading something. She insisted on it, from what I recall. Then she added "oh but his Japanese is very good".
Edit : made her listen to the video.
Now she added your Japanese is a bit "too beautiful and not broken enough."
If she had never seen you before, she would have believed with a ~70% certitude (whatever that means aha) that you were Japanese.
I guess your narrator side is what stands out the most to (at least some of) your Japanese audience.
Explains why all the variety shows have subtitles built into the video, even for home viewing ;D
This is often what catches out non native speakers. Textbooks always teach you the academic version of a language but they almost never go into how it is actually used on a day to day basis. You can only absorb that information from your environment over time. Sometimes non native speakers simply speak a language more perfectly than native speakers, which makes it easy to identify them as non native.
And the more complicated a language is, the more apparent the difference is. There is almost no way for a non native speaker to pretend they are native speakers in Polish, which is my native language. No matte how long they live her for and how much they learn, this language is so dumb complicated and has so much unnecessary depth, that one word can give you away with 100% certainty, and you might only ever use that word once every 5 years at the most.
Yeah it makes sense every different accent has a different way of reducing its words in a given language then you have to take into account word choice as well. It’s how in English for example you can tell personality aspects or a person’s clique by the tone and word choice. Like for example I was raised speaking English since I was 3 yrs old but many people specifically non Latinos tell me that even though I can pass off as a white person my accent completely gives it away that I’m Latino. And it’s not that my English is bad I have very high fluency, it just has a Latino twinge because I was raised in an English speaking Latino community. It’s interesting, most people will never attain 100% in other languages if they’re multilingual I guess but you can get damn close haha
@@Mike23443 This is particularly a problem in Arabic. Foreigners typically learn Modern Standard Arabic, because it's the uniform standard version of Arabic with lots of learning resources. But this is ''eloquent Arabic'' used for writing, not for speaking. People actually speak dialects of Arabic, like Egyptian Arabic, not MSA. If you walk into a shop and ask for things in MSA, people sometimes think it's hilarious and go and get their friends, saying ''Hey look, this foreign guy speaks Arabic better than you do, make him ask for something again''.
やっぱり母語じゃないと不自然なところが話に出てくるんですよね。私の場合は、日本人友達と話してる時は常に「この話題について俺の意見は、日本語でこうやって正しく言える」ってそれを言う数秒か前からもう既に考えてある。でもその間に話しの話題が変わったら大変なことになる。クリス大丈夫？とか、クリスさっきから黙ってんだけどどうした？って聞いてくる。黙ってるわけじゃないよただ次何言おうか考えてんだよ！って言いたい．．．話し方がギクシャクしがちです。このせいで通訳者の夢はもう無理と判断し諦めました。悔しくて落ち込んでしまうときもある。でもDogenさんの動画を見て少しでも勇気がもらえます。いつもありがとうございます頑張ります！長文失礼しました。
私は日本人ですが、私自身日本語を話すとき、たまに間違った使い方や発音などをして指摘される場合があります。
論文等ではあまりしないミスですが、会話となるとまた違ってきます…英語も同じような気がします。
とはいえとはいえドーゲンさんの日本語は日本人と然程違和感はないように感じます！(上から目線に感じられてしまったらすみません)
I'm Japanese but I've never felt your Japanese bad.If you keep studying even more, you should be a newscaster.
にゃんあいあん 英文苦手だから日本語ですまそ。母語が違うのに日本語がペラペラなのは凄いと思うけどやっぱりどこか発音とか違う気がする。普段ならスーッと入ってくる言葉も何回か聞き直すみたいな。道元さんは訛ってる日本人レベルに近い気がするから対して問題ないけどね🌟
the tone shift actually is pretty noticeable having "uncle magnet" and casual speech so close together. you sound like you're memorizing a presentation. much more calculated lmao
私の感性としてにはなりますが、まず台本に関して。Dogenさんの作られる文章は小説的な語り方と日常的な言い回しが合わさった表現をよく聞くような気がします。通常、小説的な語り方はお笑い芸人のコントであってもシュールな場面でのみしか使われません。日常表現でも使わないので、その辺りの珍しさが表現者のDogenさんと聞いた日本人との乖離があるのじゃないかな、と思います。ただ、私としても少し変とは感じますが、嫌な壊れ方じゃないと言いますか、お笑い芸人の千鳥の表現として表すなら、クセが強い。になるので、それはそれでDogenさんの魅力ある個性なんじゃないですかね。
発音に関しては、英語の発音がまだ残っていて完全には切り替わり切れていないんじゃないかと思います。私は英語を話せませんが、いざ英文を発音すると気にし過ぎて全然ネイティブスピーカーに対して伝わらないんじゃないかって不安感に駆られます。意識し過ぎて分からなくなると言いますか、その迷いさえ自然な英語発言の邪魔になってしまうというか？日本語の発音で英語を話すとやっぱりネイティブに近くなりませんし、同じように英語の発音を応用して自然な日本語は話せないんじゃないのかなと。なのでもし自然な日本語を話したいとすれば、(私からすれば自然な日本語を話すのは)気軽に出来るようなものじゃないので、地道に現地の人との会話の量を増やして、音を聞いて真似てみたりとか発音する回数を増やすしか今のところないんじゃないのかなって。
正直、日本人を笑わせるお笑い芸人の日本語って結構適当なことが多いんですよ。Dogenさんの作りたい文章は噺家とか、落語家とかの系統に近いと思います。面白いです。これからも日本語と戦って葛藤するDogenさんも、完璧になったDogenも見たいです。 長文失礼しました。
一番！ Those are some big bags under your eyes, Dogen-san. Please take care of yourself!
I didn't notice anything off! But yes, I hope he's sleeping and eating right :)
What a genuinely self-reflective video, thanks for bringing this to us Dogen. I can hear the 'shift' between your regular conversational tone and your acting tone, but it is subtle, so it's great that you have been able to recognize it. I love your videos and will keep watching them regardless of any slight shifts (Please do the rest of your Uncle Magnet skit, I was quite enjoying it). What steps do you think you'd like to take to correct what you've now identified?
Less coffee
Dogen more heroin!
どうも初めまして いつも楽しく動画拝見させていただいてます
あえて台本を読む部分以外で感じた違和感（感じた違和感って正しい日本語？）をお伝えしたいです
「不自然/なのか」「日本語/の中の」「文章/の/冒頭/を」など、日本人は切らないところで、言葉が区切られているのが気になりました
話す速度が速いのに区切れが多くなるので、ﾀﾀﾝ ﾀﾀﾝ ﾀﾀﾀﾝと日本語っぽくないリズムになってしまっているような気がします
「ただの日本人が勉強されている外国の方に指摘なんて何様だ」と自分でも思いますが、
Dogenさんの成長の0.00001%の助けにでもなればと思いコメントさせていただきましたm(__)m
道元さんの日本語お上手すぎて日本語吹き替え見てる錯覚に陥る
まじよ
こんなの感じたことない
まさしく！台本なしの、今回みたいなときの方が、圧倒的に自然です！
よかったです！
You just addressed Tkyosam's recent comment heads on!
Respect for bravely putting this video out... I know you've got nothing to hide or you wouldn't have uploaded this.
Thumbs up!
Wasn't aware of said comments, but Sam is a cool dude. Cheers!
what comment?
What did Sam comment
おかしくないと思う私の日本語がおかしいのか？
めちゃくちゃ上手
それなｗｗｗｗｗ
若干外人さんのイントネーションかなっては思いますが、文法とかは完璧ですよね！
Dougenさんのイントネーションそんなにひどいですか？アメリカから来た人にしてはすごく良いと思います。ってか、もう９5％日本人じゃないですかねｗ
あと外人じゃなくて外国人って言ってください(>_
As a native speaker, I did notice a bit of a stronger nasal accent in some of the other videos (like “nga” rather than “ga”) but not so much on this one. Of course some Japanese, especially the elder ones would do that too so I didn’t find any problems with that at all
If I wasn't aware of the japanese people being polite, I would assume he has made you a compliment and not just called you old, Dōgen :ь
Ah, I talk like this. Some of the first shows I was watching when I first started studying were made at the end of Showa era, so I have quite old-fashioned habits...
@@a.m.bosworth Watch modern anime if you want to polish your accent. Just be careful you don't develop a hero/villian tone to your voice, but then again, it is quite hilarious/awesome when someone transforms into a bad ass tone of voice when speaking japanese.
@@rich1051414 Examples? which characters would that be?
@@default632 any of them
The best kind of Dogen video is an unscripted Dogen video
boi boi I agree.
Yessss
I feel the same way when I speak either French or Spanish, Dogen-sensei. It certainly doesn't help that there are so few people in my area to correct me whenever my faults arise. Thank you for addressing something I didn't know needed addressing.
Creo que uno de los mayores problemas en el aprendizaje de lenguajes es el hecho de que cuando alguien te corrije, te explica cómo hacerlo de la manera "correcta" a pesar de que la gran mayoría de las personas suele hablar de manera gramaticalmente incorrecta en el día a día.
I can say it in English too if you need
@@MaxAim It gets worse when ur fluent already and tries to speak with a native speaker. U know u got some mistakes and that's perfectly normal, they will correct you if needed. But as a native, it's very hard to know why it's wrong, just feels wrong jajajajaja
@@shira7155 and that's why you should take natives explanation of why something is wrong with a grain of salt; they're really good at telling when something is wrong, but not necessarily why
私Dogenさんの日本語上手いと思っています。発音もちゃんとあってるし問題ないって言う意見です。I’m half Japanese and half Iranian, but born and raised in Italy. I started studying Japanese from an early age but at a certain point I stopped and seeing your videos makes me want to study all kanji well. You have a nice pronunciation, you should just be more confident while talking!❤️
この動画、とっても面白かった！Uncle Magnet、楽しみ！
細かいかもしれませんが、｢なんでかって言って～｣という言葉の繋ぎに関西在住の私は違和感を感じてしまいます。しかし同時に、英語をできないなりに話す私はそれ以上の違和感を英語を母語とする私の会話の相手に感じさせているので、結論、Dogenさんの日本語は｢日本は長いのですか?｣と聞かれるに価すると思います。
I honestly find it so inspiring and amazing that your Japanese has become way proficient since you’ve left the states. How was that transition? I think that your Japanese is absolutely stellar already and mistakes are always a part of anything. Been subbed for a while now! You’re always amusing and I appreciate all of the nuances within your videos. Always glad to see your videos in my recommended as well. Keep up the great work and the great videos!
You are so inspirational. The fact that your Japanese is so good and you still work everyday to get better. I think that's very admirable and one day I want to be able to speak as fluidly as you.
Brave of you Dogen! Liked!
いつも楽しく見させてもらっています。まだ動画は最後まで見きっていないのですが、コメントさせていただきます。
意識せずに聞けばほとんどネイティブにしか聞こえませんが、あえて指摘するのならば、全体的に何となく鼻にかかったような印象があります。ただ、客観的に見てこれ以上改善する(ネイティブらしさを追求する)必要があるとは思いませんし、今のお話のされ方も非常に魅力的であると思います。
コメントをありがとうございいます。以前にも鼻音について言われたことがありますので、これから少しだけ、意識してみます。今後ともよろしくお願いします！
Dogen 日本に住んでる外国人ですが、日本の男の声は年齢によらずみんな声の出し方が近い気はしませんか。そしてその声の出し方を真似すために、自分のキャラクターを変えなければならないと感じるから、自分なりの声のままでいます。主観的な考えですが、その日本男性らしい声は鼻音よりも白人の声に少ない薄い口音が特徴だ(白人より子供の声に近いって言えるかなぁ)と思います。それにDogenさんのアメリカ人らしいエナジーのある口調じゃなくもっと落ち着いている感じがします。
自分もアメリカ人なのでtake it with a grain of saltですが、鼻にかかってる感じが一番の問題だなって私も思いました。そして、いつもの動画ではそんなに問題ではないですが、この動画ではたまに片言になっちゃうのがやっぱり少し不自然に感じます。（変なタイミングに間を置いたり噛んだりするなど）
それなーーーーー！！！！(゜口゜)
道元さんの動画のおかげで言語学習に興味が出て、今までになく英語学習が楽しいです ありがとう
These are actually some of my favourite videos of yours.
Sure, as a native speaker I do notice some "incorrect" pitch accents, slightly off vowel and consonant sounds, overenunciation and other non-standard features here and there, but I believe they could be boiled down to small idiosyncrasies in speech rather than downright wrong or anything. Personally I greatly prefer your speech over supposedly "perfect" NHK announcers' pronunciation and intonation. I'm afraid you might've internalised a bit of prescriptivism that seem to be so prevalent among the Japanese, though it literally sounds like 釈迦に説法 and I guess you've already been through this a thousand times.
I'm no accent expert or a person with a career in performance art so I don't really have much to say about which of your scripted performance and spontaneous speech sounds more "natural" since as others have pointed out a lot of non-professional speakers, myself included, sound odd or at least somewhat different when they're reading from a script, be it with a note or from memory.
As a bookworm however, I spot a number of peculiar word choices in your stories which are by no means ungrammatical nor do they fail to get your point across, but nonetheless sound a tiny bit awkward because they don't fall neatly under either of the colloquial or formal/literary register. They are neither flat-out flowery and archaic nor do they come off as witty; In my opinion they sort of belong to some strange nooks and crannies of 国語辞典. Then again, it could be those exact combinations of words that give your prose your own character so I wonder if changing them would turn your uniquely Dogen performance into another unimaginative Japanese stand-up. Or they could transform into something entirely different, for the better. I'm not really sure.
You don't have to be an "accent expert" to judge how an accent in your own language sounds. That's like saying you need to be a chef to know whether food tastes good.
@@corasundae No it's like implying that you'd need to be a food expert to judge exactly which ingredient or process that made a meal not taste quite as good as when a professional chef makes it. That takes some skill. Same goes for judging what it is that's off about someones accent
Cmon he is native that’s why he’s accent is not perfect sometimes!
@@CicoinTokyo777 no
damn dude, if you're japanese then your english is freaking amazing
It's so good to hear you struggle that much, I love it 😂
I respect you so much for making this video. It takes courage to be open and vulnerable about one's own shortcomings. Thank you for sharing with us!
I feel reluctant using Japanese in my videos because even if my grammar is fine my pitch is all over the place. However, watching your videos on Patreon has helped a lot and I'm much better at hearing the differences now, even if I can't always mimic them correctly myself.
おかしくないよ
カタカナ発音も上手だよ
たぶん話し方が堅いんだと思う
話し言葉と書き言葉は違うからね
話すときに書き言葉を使ってしまうことは日本語を勉強する人の間違えガチかなと思います。
大人に対して読むほうが楽だし、ゆっくり読んでも問題ないからですね。
道元さんの場合とは思わないけど、僕の友達が話す言葉を気にせずに勉強しています。
I like seeing your true personality unfiltered sometimes. You’re awesome. And I do enjoy videos like this without scripts. It feels genuine.
まだ全部見てないけど日本語は意外と発音難しいですよね
完璧に話せる、だとそうですね、かなり難しいです。
@@Dogen でもDogenさんのはあとから学習した人としてはすごく自然に聞こえる日本語だと思います。 I want my English to be that level too
確かに普段話してる時は気にならないのに、朗読したりスピーチの場に立ったりすると急にイントネーションや滑舌が気になりだすことってありますよね！笑
Dogenさんの日本語は、朗読している時より普通に話をしている時の方が少し自然な感じがしました。それでもやっぱり日本語がお上手なのでどちらにしろ不自然さは気にならない程度ですが😅
私は日本人ですが滑舌が悪く、日常会話でも上手く単語が言えなかったり文法を間違えたりすることがしょっちゅうあるので、本当に尊敬します😭笑
日本人ですが(?)いつも動画楽しみにしてます！これからも応援してます🙇🏻♂️
長文で日本語失礼しました…
eagerly waiting for the next part of uncle magnet!
I feel the same way! I was brought to the United States at age 15 and somehow was able to pick up the language and lose my accent in a very "convincing way" but sometimes I say words in a different pattern or with a slightly odd accent. People have told me I don't sound foreign at all but they can pick up on a couple of things I say in a different way.
Katherine Martinez hell, English is my native language, but I say things wrong all the time too
@@chinesemimi yes but not in a way where it's obvious that there is influence from another language
Do you always feel ドキドキ when speak japanese without script?
Only when I have too much coffee
@@Dogen 珈琲
I just feel that your constants are sharp because of your focus on clear pronunciation.
朗読で噛まない所が凄いと思いました。自然な会話の日本語もDogenさんが深く追求されてて、とても熱心な方だなと思いました。
That script was fantastic (uncle magnet).... I was able to visualize it all so well in my mind
Thanks for sharing this reflection!
Also, I’m not learning Japanese but I really enjoy listening to you tell stories. Your voice is really soothing 😄
Keep up the good work !!!
I like these types of content as much as the scripted comedy videos, you should do more of em. :)
I'm looking forward to the rest of this story!
One thought in addition to some I found in the comments - if you listen to one word or line of speech specifically to find out if it sounds odd, it will end up sounding odd. Always. Especially when repeated.
I've started wanikani. As of 3 days ago I am beginning a 1 year commitment to actually finally learn Japanese. A patreon sub coming your way once I am confident enough to speak more.
Appreciate it!
どっちも好きです
This video was refreshing, as I feel like we got to see a bit more of your personality compared to your other videos.
Dogen definitely had some 'coffee' right before recording this.
I’ve been binge watching your videos all weekend (having just found them as distraction from all the US political ...goings-on). Your awareness of pitch-accent and your facility with Japanese literature seems to have lead you into a fascinating rabbit-hole of perfectionism that gets in the way of ability to *converse*, but as a heritage speaker of Japanese (my parents raised me speaking (Showa-era) Japanese at home, but the vast majority of my education is in American English) - I’m envious of your learned facility, where I have the reduced-vocabulary babbling of someone who doesn’t have the university education, nor the daily adult life experience, that people would expect. (I.e. I never worry about my pronunciation but I have barely any keigo and no modern katakana Japanese at all). I finally understand why you assess Chris Broad so highly; he’s rather at the other end of the native English-speaker in Japan mode. Confident and willing to just piece together communication, as opposed to able to polish and rehearse elegant phrasing until it’s utterly unnatural. I’ve never seen the hyperpronounced, educated and wry fluent-foreigner version of Japanese until now, and it’s fascinating. (I see it a lot in English, and worked to avoid it in myself as someone who learned English from Nice Church Ladies as a child.)
Anyway. Thank you so much for all the “advanced Japanese lessons” videos especially. It’s improving my own Japanese, so that I might one day escape the “この人ちょっと何かへんですね” of being accentless but ignorant of modern Japanese *culture*. I don’t mind sounding odd in the other languages (non-English, non-Japanese) I’ve managed to learn, but when you don’t have the hakujin token to play...
Interesting self-analysis! So, according to that theory, some people would find any rehearsed speech by a person who didn't grow up speaking that language as 'weird,' I guess?
To be honest I wish I could listen to you reading from your short stories more! I know you strive to perfection, but really I think I've never heard a foreigner with such an amazing pronunciation and with the ability to explain such difficult topics in a language that it's not his main one. Keep up the good work!
To me you speak splendid! I love how you try and try to make it better 👍👏💪
My first time to comment.... Want to say I really resonate with this. nice work.
I think the “forced” and rigid aspect of the delivery actually makes the videos funnier !
I loved it!
With my intermediate knowledge of Japanese, I could actually understand almost everything you were saying without the script.
I would really like if you could post these freestyle speech videos more often.
たまたま見た動画ですが、自分も大分在住なので親近感湧きました。
シュールなコメディ面白かったです、応援してます！w
I’m autistic, (aspie more specifically,) so 99% of my life is speaking English in a highly-scripted manner. (I've read it’s more common with aspie women than men, and I'm certainly an argument in that direction, I suppose.) So I totally get what you’re saying on that part.
One thought that ran through my mind while you were talking about how you normally edit your comedy videos was that, if, say, line 1 is from take B but line 2 is from C and 3 from A, it could start to sound odd because how you said line 2 in C was probably based on how you said line 1 in C and line 3 on how you said 1 and 2 in A? (Or maybe I’m misinterpreting.) Even for something as silly as signing a check, if I don’t fill it out all at once, I can see tiny differences in my handwriting based on which parts I filled out when. (Even with the same pen, my positioning and such may be different. The positioning part could absolutely transfer over to speech, IMHO.)
Looking forward to the rest of the story! Bonus if we hear you sing again 😜
I'm aspie girl,
Liked your comment.
That was what I thought.
I think that when you cut out takes it could sound a little weird cause it was based in something else, let alone if is scripted, wich per se sounds already weirder than natural.
(sorry for the english=
僕も「アスピー」なね。だから、日本語は少し古代でした。英語もスペイン語も古代ですね。Meaning, that anyone with an odd way of learning can seem unnatural in speaking regardless. Especially if they are thinking excessively while speaking. In all language I speak, I've always been told that it sounds archaic and a bit odd, even if my words are correct. In Japanese and English, it's because I use words that I've been told are only used in writing or just aren't used anymore, but I don't feel a need to update my language. Your idea is also probably correct, but he does also sometimes use unique phrasing. I always thought it was part of the joke.
演技から戻った瞬間が一番自然に感じた
audibleとかでdogenさんが自分の好きな小説を朗読したら絶対買うのに、、！
dogenにも「視聴者」の発音が難しいよね、、、分かる
「結論から言いますと」がパワーワードですね
子供の頃から喋ってるネイティブと大人の学習者との間には
絶対に超えられない壁があると思う。
大人の学習者だって必死で努力すりゃネイティブを超えることがあるかもよ。
@@airo6629 あ、うん、Dogenさんはもう超えてると思いますｗ今回の動画でホントそう思いました。でも努力だけではなく才能もあると思います。
I've taken Japanese classes for three years in high school and I visited Japan for 2 weeks, one week with a host family on my own. I could be flat out wrong, especially because i haven't taken a lesson in years, but to me the way you talked in that skit reminded me of a train announcement or the way a teacher would talk while narrating a history book. It is very properly paced. Looking back to your phonetics episode 59, I do agree that each "syllable" has the same timing and none of them have particular stress (like how we speak in English). However when I visited to japan and conversed with my host family, I found that they didn't stress syllables but instead whole words and sentences themselves. I noticed that when excited, they spoke very quickly. Then as the conversation went on, the speed of their speech changed to fit the context. For example when explaining something very carefully (especially to a foreigner) they slow down and use simpler words. Additionally to me it also seemed like they had a different speech pattern for when explaining context. This tends to be quick, like when getting excited, but instead keep it at a more dulled tone. Like I said I haven't properly studied in years so I could be explaining this incorrectly, or completely wrong, but that is what I think. Thank you for your content Dogen.
多くの場合、台本がある演技であれば、日本人でも日常のフリートークとは違う話し方になります。なので、ポイントは全く別の部分だと思います。たとえばラリルレロの舌の位置や形、促音の弱さ、不要な長音（ex.おーかしい、ふーしぜん）、子音/摩擦音の強調、その他イントネーションなど。でも、そもそも気にし過ぎだと思います。
自分の言いたいことが全部ある。それな。
「えー」「あー」みたいなのがかなり日本人っぽいです。
あとDogenさんの演じるおばあちゃんが好きです。
Wow, watching natural Japanese Dogen makes me feel so much better about my own Japanese language ability. I always felt like he was 日本語上手すぎる, but natural Dogen I feel like I could have a real conversation with. This was a nice vid!
このビデオは最高‼︎ありがとうございます。 字幕を読むことは余所にする。 I am always looking for casual videos in Japanese to train my listening practice and understanding and this is just great. I love your other videos too but they are so short and it is so sad when they end. But thank you thank you for your content, it is so enjoyable
This is my experience with English, which is my second language (my first is Indonesian). I could speak the language just fine, but since several years ago I decided that I should follow one consistent way of pronunciation; RP in my case (known as the so-called 'BBC English', even though nowadays the broadcasters speak many different regional accents). Constantly being aware of your pronunciation of words was... quite an odd experience. Sometimes I was too concious on how to say things that I forgot the thing that I wanted to say!
Your sudden stops and repeating the same points over and over again are things that I experienced as well.
I think many advanced second language learners can relate to your experience.
Dogen, first of all, thank you for all your videos which are not only entertaining but also very interesting. This video was particularly good to me, but maybe a little bit "out of reach". I'm a Theater comedian in France, and I'm also a student in Japanese studies, so I can assure you that your videos has answered or maybe reopened questions I sometimes have regarding several topics like "acting ; pronunciation ; orality ; body gestures..." I do think that it is pretty normal not to feel 100% natural while acting, because what you're doing in your other videos is a lot of work (getting to what you want to express, the way you want your sentences and mimics to be done...) and putting so much effort is like crystallising your speech bringing it to a different level out of what we call natural. It is perfectly normal. When I'm listening to French youtubers, or comedians, their French isn't the one they are using on daily basis, and thanks god, because acting, is exactly that. Bringing messages, mimics, gestures to another level so that the content can be stronger. Of course this video sounded more natural, but I can find this kind of natural contents everywhere, what you usually do, is mastering a language in a funny way, and that's beautiful because some of us knows all the work behind. Thank you again, and sorry for that long comment.
Dogenの日本語雰囲気あって好きだよ
この動画、他の動画より確かに自然だと思う。ていうか十分すぎるくらい上手いし、ネイティブレベルだと思う。
I've always seen your videos like a very unique type of Rakugo.
Audiobooks are very distinct in their enunciation as well, and they can sound 'unnatural' but I do think it has to do with the difference between acting/telling a story and everyday speech.
dogen is very hard on himself...there are always things we can improve upon
That....that was a really well-described story.
It was oddly satisfying.
This video felt much, much more natural.
wow as a fairly new student to the japanese language, for the furst time i can actually understand a lot of what you say :)
"え…" Translating to "Let's see..." is so good.
Crunchyroll subs in a nutshell
外国語勉強しているので、これだけ日本語を完璧に喋れるドーゲンさんを本当に尊敬してます...
Im gonna b honest this helps me feel a lot better about the way my voice sounds when i speak japanese.
Ive been interested in the language and attempting to learn since i was 12, but i havent made much progress in the 9 years its been a hobby of mine until the last year or so where i really started to try and dedicate myself to it.
When i try and speak, because i get so little practice, i pause and stumble a lot in a similar way that you do. I suppose it gives me hope that i can get much better and am not just a moron, because i have faith that youre not.
People often have different ways of speaking depending on the situation. News presenters, professors, Shakespearean actors; their form of address and intonation are distinct but appropriate for their purposes. When speaking with my friends I have certain tones and phrasing tjat are completley different from giving a work presentation, but that doesn't make one more correct than the other. I appreciate that your way of speaking in your comedic videos is in the vein of performing/presenting, as would be appropriate for skits and shows. Your accent is amazing btw :)
+Dogen This video really puts into perspective how much effort goes into your comedy shorts. I only found your channel a month ago, and have been binging your content since then. However, this particular contrast that you wanted to show between your edited and unedited content makes me respect your effort expended on your shorts even more so. Hats off to you, Dogen.
As a side note: the crispness of your expressions and delivery in your shorts is what really sells them for me. While I can appreciate how that would seem stilted or slightly off to a native Japanese speaker, the fact that your videos and humor while delivered in fluent Japanese transcend the translation/transliteration barrier for English speakers as well is why you deserve a much larger audience. I look forward to seeing you grow, dude.
Actually whenever I record myself playing piano, I often end up messing up things I never would because of this "acting switch" you mentioned. Maybe it's something completely different but I often feel more fluid when I'm performing live or just improvising.
I died when I heard Morning Musume… but on a Japanese language learning, you are one of the UA-camrs based in Japan, that are foreigners that make me strive to learn Japanese - and maybe go go to language school in Japan. Doubt you’ll see this over two years after posting! Keep up the amazing videos - love from Scotland 🏴
Yeah, it makes sense when it's because your reading, especially since written form and spoken language are rarely a direct equivalent! I don't speak Japanese, but if I look away and just listen to you talk I can definitely hear the difference in your delivery
ahhhh, it's so pleasant hearing you laugh!!! you're right, on your comedy videos you sound quite stiff (I believe everybody can notice, whether they know japanese), but (you're right on this too) in "today's" part you sounded way more loose. maybe talking to the camera for a while without a script helped you to warm up? when I have to do a presentation, I try talking as much as I can before entering the room, and then I talk a little bit to the audience before going into the actual performance that I had to memorice, and I feel this helps a lot, at least I percieve myself way more confident in my presentations since I do that hahaha
We need an Uncle Magnet full skit please!
wait, your 日本語 isn't 上手？
it was, as the kids say, 上手じゃない
まだまだです
Dogen 「いつから日本に住んでる？」
I can't read japanese but I could actually hear this comment
@@Dogen
私も日本人ですが、まだまだです、敬語間違えますし、電話が苦手です😅
Translation:
I'm Japanese but I'm not satisfied with my Japanese. I sometimes misuse Keigo, and I'm not good at talking on the phone😅
めっちゃおもろいやんけ
私はDogenさんの大ファンなのでこのコメントが届くかわからないのですが
今回のビデオが今までで一番自然だと思いました。今までの動画も大好きですがあまりにも完璧すぎてなにか違和感を感じるんだと思います。（文脈や表現力がうますぎる）
ちなみに、お世辞でもなんでもなくてシナリオを読んでいてもセリフなしで話している日本語も本当に怖いくらい違和感ないです。本当に日本人じゃないんですか？冗談です。
これからも応援しています。