Good for you (from a Yorkshireman)! I don't recognise the post 1974 pseudo-counties either. If Lancashire County Cricket Club have their headquarters at Old Trafford, then that is surely in Lancashire.
@@grahamtowers5513 West Yorkshire or West Riding? My wife is from the wrong side of the River Ouse (West Riding, now West Yorkshire); Yeadon, about 3 miles from Otley, but now resides here in the old North Riding (now known as North Yorkshire).
@@portcullis5622 The river ouse runs through Otley! It's West Yorkshire, it was west riding when I was a kid, I spent many happy summers there at my Auntie's
I'm glad you mention the accents, they're one of the most noticeable remnants of the historical counties within Cumbria. The Lancashire-esque accent isn't just restricted to the former exclave, most of South Cumbria sounds somewhat similar to Lancastrian, whereas North Cumbria sounds more similar to Geordie. This difference is significant enough that offcomers can easily pick up on it. I was born and raised in what was Westmorland, but now live in London. A few years ago a girl from Carlisle joined the company I worked for here, and our colleagues were genuinely shocked by how dramatically different her accent was to mine, despite us both being Cumbrians. They thought she sounded like a Geordie, which I don't at all. A similar thing happened when some friends in London met someone I know from South-East Cumbria, the part that used to be in Yorkshire. They were surprised to find that she sounded more like a Yorkshirewoman than like me. Again, her accent was very distinct.
@@AlastairjCarruthersincorrect. Cumbrians come from the county of Cumberland. There’s no such thing as a Cumbrian from Cumbria just like there’s no such thing as greater Mancunian from greater Manchester or a Merseysider from Merseyside. In fact technically you’ve never even been to Cumbria as before it was abolishing last year was only ever an administrative county and not a real historical and geographical county like Lancashire.
@@TheNotoriousMIC I love the idea that the historic county is real, but the more recent one isn't. At come point some bloke drew some lines and decided to give it a name. Then someone else re-drew the lines and gave them another name :)
A lovely part of England. I like to get up those parts at least twice a year. this year we managed to take a trip on the Cumbria Coast Line up to Carlisle, then back down the Settle to Carlisle line. Love those small towns and villages not over developed like our small towns and villages down south. Wall to wall brick boxes all looking the same. Thanks for posting this.
What a brilliant video! Really good presentation, and I love the clear voice over with the views of the towns. Just one small point (and I hope you don't think I'm being picky), but i.e. is a written abbreviation and should always be read aloud as: that is to say.
I didn't know that "i.e." is solely intended for written purposes. Thanks for alerting us to that fact. It occurs to me that you may be the only English-speaking person in the world who is aware of that rule !
I'm surprised that Coniston didn't get a mention. Copper mining, and speed records not withstanding, it's the largest town at the northern extremes of Lancahire. Coniston Old Man used to be the highest point in the county as well.
@@toxictony4230 still is the highest point in the county. Really wish people would get their facts straight before posting this nonsense and maybe we wouldn’t be in such mess right now.
"Barrow" often refers to a grave, it's a common part of many Lancastrian place names, and incidentally "Grange" comes from the French word for a barn associated with a monastery. I´m a Lancastrian immigrant in Spain and the sight of that pie shop on the right entering Grange gave me a huge pang of nostalgia for the English pie. Enjoyed the video, thanks.
I used to work in Florida with a guy from Lancashire. I can’t remember which town though. Great video talking history and showing us the towns. I really enjoyed that.
You managed to make Barrow look nice! That's a skill in of itself. Last time I was there (June this year) it was just as grey and grim as every other time I'd been there! There is an interesting feature in the train station, though. There is a plaque commemorating the men of Barrow who died in WWI and next to it is another plaque noting that the first plaque was damaged by a Luftwaffe bomb in WWII.
@@magnusbruce4051 everywhere that used to be managed by Cumbria council that wasn’t in the national park has just been left in ruins. Hopefully now the administrative county of Cumbria has been abolished Westmorland and Furness council will do a better job.
@@TheNotoriousMIC Fingers crossed they can do something. With Barrow it seems like it's a victim of having just two industries - shipbuilding and drugs. The isolation doesn't help, either. There have been talks for decades about building a bridge across Morecambe bay to connect with North Lancashire but I can imagine how insanely expensive that would be versus how much benefit it would bring both areas.
@ Barrow in Furness is in north Lancashire which is why Barrow FC has the red rose of Lancashire on its club emblem. There was talk of joining barrow with the rest of Lancashire ages ago but nobody really cares anymore. It’s just been left to rot but it’s a massive shame especially where it’s situated so close to the lakes.
@@francisraw9756 As far as I know, nobody has made a tidal barrage that big before. It would probably harm some wildlife (that was a major concern for the Severn barrage plans), but realistically if you want to make an omelette, you have to break some eggs.
As others have commented, there used to be a lot of small exclaves across England. One I find interesting is what is now the county of Rutland. It used to be an exclave of Nottinghamshire, if you go back far enough.
It's not really an exclave, but more of a detatchment. If you check out historic Worcestershire, you'll find it had the most exclaves of any English county.
Not "virtually unheard of". If you look at a copy of John Speed's Counties of Britain, first published in 1611/12, you can find literally dozens of county exclaves across England.
I was about to comment the same. You even look at Moules Maps of the 1830’s and for example Derbyshire had entire parishes surrounded by Leicestershire.
That’s true. Furness is or was probably the largest county exclave, but there was another that had one large town - Dudley was part of Worcestershire even though it was surrounded by Staffordshire. This, too, was an exclave only eliminated in 1974. Historically there were a lot of small enclaves and exclaves. Some were abolished in the 1880s when County Councils were set up and more in (I think) the 1920s as a conscious effort to tidy boundaries. The classic area with a rash of complicated boundaries was in Worcestershire, Warwickshire and Oxfordshire where there was a whole much of mixed up parishes where the counties met.
@ChrisMartin-b7l Add Gloucestershire too. My inlaws live in the county of Warwickshire with a CV Stratford-upon-Avon postal address but live in an old Worcestershire parish and come under a Worcestershire council but across the street some 15 metres away it's Gloucestershire.
It’s not even an enclave as Morecambe bay is in Lancashire and it’s never got any water in it so it isn’t actually split into two it only just looks like that on the map.
Yet another interesting relaxing watch. Ulverston is a really nice place and pleasant town and as you mentioned, birth place of Stan Laurel one half of two legends with a nice museum and pleasant surroundings. Went to Grange-Over-Sands once and found it a nice enough place to visit. Was never struck on Barrow on my visit there. I used to live in Lancashire in well known Blackpool and still a regular destination for me.
I’m a proud Barrovian, it gets a regular whipping from people but it has never done me any harm, lovely countryside, plenty of walks, surrounded by lovely beaches and nice people 😊🤩🦭
I believe originally Lancashire was classed as part of Yorkshire pre-Norman conquest. Most of the Shires are of Saxon origin. From wikipedia - Lancashire was founded in the 12th century; in the Domesday Book of 1086 much of what would become the county is treated as part of Yorkshire and Cheshire. Until the Early Modern period the county was a comparatively poor backwater, although in 1351 it became a palatine, with a semi-independent judicial system.
Not an exclave but related, The western boundary of the town of Dartford, Kent is also the Kent /Greater London Boundary, with the London Borough of Bexley (this can be confusing as Bexley along with Bromley and various other places in that area still use the postal address 'Kent' but are now actually London Boroughs and not administered by or actually part of the present day Kent) There are a couple of cul de sacs or no 'No through roads' , where their entrance /exit is on the county boundary, Clive Avenue being one, so while in Greater London can only be accessed by crossing into Kent, these can be seen on openstreet maps. There is if I remember also the reverse, ie a cul-de-sac in Kent, with boundary across the access, so you can not travel to or from anywhere else in Kent without crossing first into Greater London. Are there any other examples around the country (might even be fairly common?) where a road or street is cut off from its parent county as such, and you need to cross another county to access any other place in the parent county?
Very interesting! I may have to do a deep dive on that at some point. I'd imagine there are a few quirks like that around Dartford due to there being little, if any, green belt land separating it from London. The Essex-London border towards the eastern end of the Central Line springs to mind as well.
Pentreheyling is in Shropshire. You can't drive very far from it without driving into Wales. While staying in England, you can drive about 2km to the east to a junction; there's a nearby farm in Wales which can only be reached via that junction.
Talking of strange borders Birmingham Airport is mostly in the Borough of Solihull except for the northern section ot the runway which is in Birmingham. So if you are arriving into BHX from the north you land in Birmingham but when you get off the plane you in Solihull!
Interesting film. I visited BAES many times on business over the last 20 yrs but reckon the Barrovian accent is quite different ftom Lancashire's. Thought the Three Shire Stone might have figured?
Appreciate is Welsh, but when thinking of county exclaves, my first thought is always Flint, because we had an old wooden county jigsaw when I was a kid. And the tiny other bit of Flint was always getting stuck under the rim of the lid 🤣
@@borderlands6606 it was once yes but it hasn't been for centuries. In fact at one time Flintshire and Cheshire made up the semi independent Earldom or Palatinate of Chester
Furness is not an exclave ‘only accessible a few days in the year over the sands’. In good weather it is generally possible to walk over the sands at low tide with a guide, although heavy rain will deepen the channels and make the mud precarious. Prior to 18th/19th century drainage of the bogs/mosses between Levens and Grange-over- Sands, the over- the-sands route would have been the main access to the Furness peninsular for anyone coming from the south, other than by boat. Also, the Furness peninsular is no longer in Cumbria, which has been abolished as an administrative county, but is part of Westmorland and Furness.
An excellent accidental discovery thrown up by UA-cam - thanks. My grandmother was born (or at least registered, I think it was actually a nearby village) in Ulverston. Her mother was by then living in West Yorkshire, but all her 12 siblings were born in historic Lancashire, as my great-grandmother apparently went back to HER mother's for every birth! Only the first few of this enormous brood were born while great-grandmother still lived near Ulverston. Quite a journey in the late 19th/early 20th century. The family had been predominantly iron miners but moved to work in the woollen mills near Bradford as presumably the iron ore was giving out. I live in South Wales where I was born and haven't been back to the area for many, many years - should make the effort!
I've long resented the change although with 2 big cities like Manchester and Liverpool in your county and a big dense area I guess the pressure was huge. I've recently found the Peninsulas an interesting destination starting at Sizergh Castle and Levens Hall, the Motor Museum and Lakeside Railway. Interesting hear the origins of the area.
Hi Alex, up till 1974 there were two exclaves near me, the historical county of Denbighshire had two exclaves of Flintshire the first had the village of Marford and the second was a bit bigger which had Is-y-Coed, Bangor on Dee and Marchwiel. In 1974 Denbighshire and Flintshire be came Clwyd and from that day the people did not like this new county until it changed in 1996 as the old counties returned so Clwyd became not two counties but now three and a bit, the bit is now Conwy as most of it was Gwynedd the return of Flintshire and Denbighshire and the new county, which was the biggest town ( known as capital of North Wales ) is the County and city of Wrexham. before 1974 Wrexham was in Denbighshire but those exclaves of Flintshire were near Wrexham and were address as nr Wrexham all tho they were a part of Flint. Today those exclave villages now are in the county of Wrexham. Great video, thanks
I remember in the 60s/70s the weather forecast on Radio 4 (the Home Service, as was), worked its way round the UK and always mentioned 'Cumberland, Westmorland and the Furness district of Lancashire', which always sounded, to me, as a bit complicated!
Some very pretty towns there. I watched a documentary once which didn't paint a particularly good picture of Barrow-in-Furness because it seems so disconnected from everywhere else, so opportunities aren't great.
The county carve up of April Fool's Day 1974 was a real travesty in so many places. The notion that faceless bureaucrats had the power suddenly to dispossess people of their cherished county allegiances was naive at best. Some of the damage (such as the creation of the highly contrived 'counties' of Avon, Hereford & Worcester and Humberside) has thankfully been reversed but alas much of it lives on.
The original proposals were a good deal more radical than the watered-down version adopted by the Heath government. Avon was an eminently sensible creation, scrapping the absurd county boundary between Bristol and adjacent areas; Humberside was perhaps a more optimistic amalgamation, but Herefordshire was just too small to be a county-level authority and had to go somewhere. Today's tangle of pseudo-"regions", two-tier counties, unitary areas and lower-level districts is just a mess: local government can't thrive in the 21st century on the basis of glorified parish councils and obsolete ancient boundaries unrelated to modern realities.
@@davepx1 I think for most people they don't mind how local and regional services are organised - they simply want to maintain their time-honoured historic county boundaries. I agree with you that we have a terrible tangle today.
@@LostsTVandRadio People care though if their council's inadequate for the task, or if administration's chaotic because there's a county boundary running through their conurbation. I do think the reformers of the 1960s-70s (and even the 1880s) erred in overwriting the ancient counties: it would have been better to retain the historic area for (very) limited ceremonial purposes alongside the new administrative one. But the old counties had to go as administrative units: it's a shame that half a century on, the structure needs ripping up again.
As someone born in Barrow, Lancashire, in the late sixties, I can say that most people, certainly when I was growing up, felt a stronger affinity to the other industrial towns of Lancashire than they did to the smaller, more agricultural areas of the lake district. Much like other, bigger Lancastrian towns in the region, a good deal of the population of Barrow are third or fourth generation immigrants, mainly descended from the Scots and Irish who came to find work in the factories, which also distinguishes them culturally from the rest of Cumbria, and may well explain the accent difference too.
As someone born/raised in West Cumbria, I never got the whole "accent sounds Geordie" line - we and they sound as different as Manchester and Leeds to me, but to anyone from South of Carnforth it appears we all blend into one generic accent!
Very good, interesting and informative. My only slight issue is being a very proud Lancastrian, I've always heard the term Palatine pronounced as you would the river Tyne. Pala Tyne if you like. Otherwise, excellent.
Thank you. To be honest, I've never actually heard the word 'palatine' said out loud, so I'm happy to take your word for it on the pronunciation front!
@AlexinGreatBritain Many thanks. If you have never actually heard it spoken, then I can fully understand why you went for the pronunciation that you did, but I can assure you that certainly whenever I've heard it quoted, it has been pronounced as if written as Tyne at the end.
I can see how a mild Carlisle (pronounced ‘Caarlaal’) accent could get mistaken for a Teeside accent, but certainly not a Geordie one. Whereas a strong Carlisle accent can be pinpointed straight away. Very different from nearby Penrith which has a gentler, rural, sing-songy twang to it. Unsurprisingly, The Kendal accent sounds like Penrith with a hint of Lancashire. The South Cumbria accent (formerly North Lancs o’t’ sands of course) sounds Lancashire with a hint of Cumbrian!
Lancashire itself was a cobbling-together of three different areas: Lonsdale-Furness (including Lancaster itself), Amounderness (the Fylde) and the big southern lump "between the Ribble and the Mersey" which subsequently came to contain by far the greater part of the population until the two main conurbations were detached in 1974. Just as odd as the Furness/North Lonsdale exclave is the peripheral location of the county town, a legacy of the shire's tangled origins.
The Government at that time stated that the "new counties" were administrative areas only, and that the boundaries of traditional counties such as Lancashire had not been changed. Unfortunately, the media refer to these administrative areas all too frequently and ignore the fact that places such as Barrow-in-Furness, Liverpool, Manchester, Warrington, etc. are still in Lancashire. If administrative areas had not been called counties much of this confusion would have been avoided
The original Lancastrian lands were all ocean facing, it surrounded a bay. It makes sense when you remember a lot of places around the U.K. were once more accessible by boat than by road. Goods weren’t carted cross country and eventually into large cities things were carted down to the nearest boat access and sailed to the cities.
Indeed, and one of the smallest towns in the country at that. I filmed all the footage in this video in a single day, and couldn't quite fit Broughton-in-Furness into the itinerary.
@@AlexinGreatBritain I was a youth in 1974 when Lancashire was butchered in the reorganisation. We lost our two biggest cities and slice of the Lake District. A sad day indeed.
great video! i'm from Barrow-in-Furness and i very much regard our town as being part of Lancashire, as you point out our accent is completely different to the Cumbrian brogue and in football i do not regard Carlisle United as being rivals in the true sense, Carlisle is miles away whereas Morecambe is much closer and they are our true rivals, sadly like many similar towns Barrow has declined significantly, the town centre is now dreadful but it is still a nice town to live in if one is working and living in one of the better parts, i suppose one could say that about any town, some of my friends are militant Lancastrians and still put the suffix of Lancashire on correspondence and do not accept the concept of Cumbria
It is a bit of a myth that County boundaries hardly changed before "that nasty act of 1974 changed everything":) In reality we have acts of parliament and similar that got rid of enclaves etc several times in the 19th century - e.g. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_(Detached_Parts)_Act_1844. Later have entities like Huntingdonshire and the Soke of Peterborough, which disappeared in the 60's - the latter apparently only having been created in the 1880s. Reality is that once the borders were often not so important, but as the world became more "modern" they distinctly are now.
I grew up in Lancashire until the 1974 changes put me in Merseyside. I now live in the even newer 2023 county of Westmorland and Furness... I'm surprised you didn't mention Three Shires Head in Little Langdale where the old counties met. As for accents, I woudl say that where I am in the north end of the Lakes, the accent is 'Cumbrian' and is a bit like a Lancashire accent but distinctly not the same as a Lancashire accent
Building work started in 1882, the local sandstone was not strong enough to support the weight of the tower so it had to be partially rebuilt. Finally opening in 1887 for the golden jubilee.
Historically, transport by water was often easier than by land, especially when that land is the Cumbrian mountains, so Furness probably had more communication with the rest of Lancashire than it did with Kendal or Carlisle
I believe in relation to the English county boundaries immediately prior to the April 1974 changes Lancashire lost more territory than any other county.
That sounds very plausible, assuming you're referring to those that still exist today as ceremonial counties. It's ironic that Lancashire actually gained a little territory from Yorkshire of all places!
@@GingerLBCThat's interesting, Lincolnshire lost its Northern part including second and third largest towns of Scunthorpe and Grimsby, To Humberside which then in 1996 in turn reverted to a new North Lincolnshire and North East Lincolnshire, which are still separate from the original Lincolnshire, but part of the historical cerimonial country!.
@@AlexinGreatBritainThe original article I read (sorry can't remember where now) was referring to territory that transfered from pre April 1974 Lancashire to other present day administrations, eg Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Cumbria etc, as opposed to the cerimonial county.
@@AlexinGreatBritain Sorry, but no! Lancashire didn't "gain" territory from Yorkshire - we Lancastrians just got back what was rightfully ours anyway! 😂 Seriously though, excellent video and I thank you bigly for covering my beloved home county. 👍 By the way, I was 9 years old in 1974 but I remember my parents being absolutley furious about this, so much so they never voted Labour ever again. And that wasn't just for traditional/sentimental reasons either; those county border changes striped away the most lucrative parts of the county, and in the very midst of the 'Cod Wars', our costal town wasn't doing well as it was. It was a real hammer-blow.
My understanding is that the old "West Coast" route to Scotland was over the sands - neither over Shap as now nor even up towards Kendal and across. Thus the "King's Guide to the Sands" to help people across. With this in mind, Furness and Carmel do not really form an exclave. Good video though.
Dudley is another case. It used to be in Worcestershire even though it was surrounded by what was Warwickshire but is now West Midlands. It was many miles north of the rest of Worcestershire.
@@AlexinGreatBritain Even to me as a South Cumbrian, people from Carlisle sound a bit like Geordies. Not identical, but similar, and definitely different from around my area.
I think it's just to people who aren't Geordies. Probably in a similar way that as someone from south County Durham, if I speak to someone from further south (including North Yorkshire, they say I have a Geordie accent (which I definitely don't, even though I love the Geordie accent), if I go to Scotland, some think I might be from North Yorkshire. People from the North East are usually better at placing the accents. I guess it's the same with this. I wouldn't think a Carlisle accent sounded Geordie, but I guess it sounds more Geordie than someone from further south. A bit more washed out Geordie, like our County Durham accents. Northumbrian Dialect probably plays a part in that too.
Cumbria is no more as an administrative county. It has been split into two unitary authorities, the first being a re-created Cumberland and the second being "Westmorland and Furness". The latter, though, contains a large of chunk of what used to be part of Cumberland pre-1974.
It was a result of Westminster attempting to reduce the power of the northern powerhouse and replacing it with a divided county . It had 68 MPs in its day largest of any county the county still exists only the administrative boundary was changed .
Part of Newham since 1965. I suppose it still counts as "ancient" Kent, but I don't think that has any practical application. But the foot-tunnel survives!
Harking back to ww2 and the German bombing, my father was a 12/13 year old boy at the time. His best friend was killed in one raid when an incendiary bomb hit his house, went through the roof, the bedroom ceiling... then through his friend and the bed he was sleeping in.
I believe it can refer to man-made hills (such as burial mounds), though I haven't seen much evidence of those in the immediate area... unless you count the old industrial slag heaps.
KEPN says this Barrow means hill-island, not "bare island". Most other Barrows mean "grove of trees". Meanwhile a barrow in the landscape is a burial mound.
I am a Kendalian by birth, we have a few places in and around Kendal with Barrow in the name, Kirk (meaning Church) Barrow (Hill) Underbarrow (Underhill) and on near Grange, Backbarrow. Interesting, for me, this array of certain meaning for Norwegian words. Keep up the discussions.
I was forced into an enclave unwillingly yonks ago, brought up In Royal Berkshire, the 'Authorities' decided Thomas Hardy and I were incorrect and grabbed a huge chunk to incorporate in to lowly Oxfordshire , only known for the Christminster development! Ancient Brits travelled the Ridgeway in Berkshire once but now their descendants walk the same road in Oxfordshire, the border squirrelled away approx 8 miles northwards to lie on the bottom of the boring River Thames! Progress?, my arse!
Alex. I confess to being an ignorant American. What factors drove the change in county borders in 1974? Population for seats in parliament? But as usual thanks for the education
Not ignorant at all! It's a very niche topic, even over here. I believe the idea was to streamline the structure of local government, and to better govern the densely populated urban areas by creating the metropolitan counties (Greater Manchester, Merseyside, West Midlands etc). Some of it may have been a bit of general housekeeping, like adjusting a few borders to deviate from rivers which used to split towns into two counties in a few cases. Us Brits are typically resistant to change though, so many take the newer counties with a pinch of salt when it comes to identity.
@@AlexinGreatBritain I think I remember, as a 16 year old in 1975, that certain functions eg education, were governed by Preston and that Liverpool and Manchester chafed against this. So Merseyside and Greater Manchester became separate unitary authorities with all local government functions under one roof.
The key thing is that even by the 1960s counties (or shires) were important units of local government and yet the boundaries of these counties had remained almost unchanged for a thousand years. A lot of population growth and change had occurred and so Parliament was trying to create a new system of local government that better fitted 1970s England. The previous system also had lots of tiers of local government with different powers, the 1974 reforms essentially created a streamlined structure to local government with counties (the largest upper tier authorities) and districts within those counties providing more local services
@@thereunionparty it was more complicated than that. Back then, there were county boroughs (a town had to have a population of at least 50,000 to qualify) and these had some autonomy from the “rural districts” and other towns, for services such as policing. So a town like Blackburn, for example, was a county borough with its own police force. The surrounding rural areas - Blackburn Rural District (these now form part of the Ribble Valley) - were policed by the Lancashire Constabulary county force. A similar situation with looking after roads, and so on. Eventually, the county borough system was scrapped in the 1974 local government reorganisation.
If you die intestate in any of the towns you feature, and no heir can be found, then your inheritance can still be claimed by the Duke of Lancaster as a consequence of you living in the old county palatine. Your property in practice becomes part of a fund, the incorporated Duchy of Lancaster, which pays an income to the King of England as Duke of Lancaster which is distinct from the Civil List. His Grace cannot lay hands on the capital of this fund, so it is an estate in tail which resembles the modern interest in possession trust. The accounts of the Duchy of Lancaster are not filed at Companies House, but are published by placement in the House of Commons Library. They can also be found on the Duchy’s website. Note that apparent income from a series of reversions of property to the Duchy is not treated in these accounts as headline income. It isn’t.
The borders actually aren't that strange; even when you can't walk across Morecambe Bay, you can take a boat across it and that was probably the most common way of reaching Furness from elsewhere in Lancashire before the rails came, and probably even after. (There aren't any ferries to Barrow from south Lancs now though; I checked.)
The real question that needs to he asked is why? Why was Lancashire broken up following the Maud Redcliffe Report? What were the real motivations of the Heath Government?
The Redcliffe Maud report was commissioned by the 1st Wilson Labour government. The recommendations made by the Heath government resulting in the 1972 act were influenced by the earlier report but were in many cases not as drastic for example Redcliffe Maud proposes that England was to be divided into provinces and the Metropolitan counties were to be a lot larger
County exclaves and enclaves are not that rare. Before county borders were reorganised several times in the 19th and 20th centuries there were many especially in the Midlands.
I remember well having to show papers to cross Duddon bridge, we've never accepted the meaningless Cumbria and long for the days when Cumberland people could light watch fires and keep out stray Lancastrians, ah the good old days.
The enclave was not contiguous with the rest of lancashire a term i learned of.tv on eggheads.Dave myers the Hairy Biker adopted a geordie type accent.I am guessing because of si being his good ..mate!But in doing this ,i think he betrayed his Barrow in Furness origins..i .am saying this without trying to be disrepectful to dave R.I.P
It was also on that date in 1974 when Yorkshire rose above Lancashire with the latter's loss of the Old Man of Coniston, where three counties met, as its highest point at 2,633 feet. Henceforth, Yorkshire's highest point, Mickle Fell, at 2,585 feet was to overshadow the best that Lancashire could do, Green Hill, at a mere 2,060 feet.
@@TheNotoriousMIC Not according to the government. Coniston is now entirely in Cumbria. Take up the argument with them. The Historic Counties are exactly as the name suggests; historical boundaries. That's fine if it suits your purposes, but it means that Battersea would still be in Surrey and Abingdon would be in Berkshire. So I am not incorrect, I'm just using current definitions. You on the other hand are being deliberately abstruse, confrontational or even rude.
@ incorrect again. You’re being rude by calling my home by the wrong name and now you’re continuing to be rude and disrespectful by continuing to call my home by the wrong name even though you’ve just been corrected. Maybe you need to take it up with the government. "The new county boundaries are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change despite the different names adopted by the new administrative counties.” Government statement issued on 1st April 1974 and printed in the Times newspaper In future to comment on subjects you don’t understand.
@TheNotoriousMIC you are simply obnoxiously confrontational. Yes, I am talking of administrative counties. They once mirrored historic countily boundaries, but no longer. I should add also, they are the current boundaries shown on current Ordnance Survey maps, and also the recognised postal counties. So, within the very obvious context of this video, I am correct. I am only incorrect in the definition of county you chose to use, but then you didn't care to qualify, but preferred to act like a dick. That you can do of course, but then choosing to be an arrogant oaf is a personal choice you have made. So, instead of being civilised and nuanced you prefer the pig-headed approach. Incidentally, county boundaries have changed through time, not just in April 1974.
@Gerard_2024 yeah, it's just cyanide in the soup, right? Kinda hard to appreciate anything when you're too busy avoiding the gangs. You better build yourself a Trump.😜
@Gerard_2024 btw imagine what a 10? year old girl nailed to a tree looks like. They really don't like women learning to read. Hey how long do you think the child screamed? It takes hours to die, remember?
@@gandalfstormcrow8439 The topic of this video is exclaves in England, in case you hadn't noticed. While the points you make are certainly and worthy of interest, I do not think that this is the correct forum in which to discuss them.
I'm still a Lancastrian, I refuse to accept Greater Manchester
Good for you (from a Yorkshireman)!
I don't recognise the post 1974 pseudo-counties either. If Lancashire County Cricket Club have their headquarters at Old Trafford, then that is surely in Lancashire.
I don’t recognise Merseyside I was born in Lancashire
@@portcullis5622 Confesion, my mother was from Otley!
@@grahamtowers5513 West Yorkshire or West Riding? My wife is from the wrong side of the River Ouse (West Riding, now West Yorkshire); Yeadon, about 3 miles from Otley, but now resides here in the old North Riding (now known as North Yorkshire).
@@portcullis5622 The river ouse runs through Otley! It's West Yorkshire, it was west riding when I was a kid, I spent many happy summers there at my Auntie's
I'm glad you mention the accents, they're one of the most noticeable remnants of the historical counties within Cumbria. The Lancashire-esque accent isn't just restricted to the former exclave, most of South Cumbria sounds somewhat similar to Lancastrian, whereas North Cumbria sounds more similar to Geordie.
This difference is significant enough that offcomers can easily pick up on it. I was born and raised in what was Westmorland, but now live in London. A few years ago a girl from Carlisle joined the company I worked for here, and our colleagues were genuinely shocked by how dramatically different her accent was to mine, despite us both being Cumbrians. They thought she sounded like a Geordie, which I don't at all.
A similar thing happened when some friends in London met someone I know from South-East Cumbria, the part that used to be in Yorkshire. They were surprised to find that she sounded more like a Yorkshirewoman than like me. Again, her accent was very distinct.
Incidentally, we were all born post-1974, so officially none of us has ever been anything but Cumbrian.
@@AlastairjCarruthersincorrect. Cumbrians come from the county of Cumberland. There’s no such thing as a Cumbrian from Cumbria just like there’s no such thing as greater Mancunian from greater Manchester or a Merseysider from Merseyside. In fact technically you’ve never even been to Cumbria as before it was abolishing last year was only ever an administrative county and not a real historical and geographical county like Lancashire.
I live in Whitehaven. It's Cumberland and it's never been Cumbria!
@ spoken like a true Cumbrian from the county of Cumberland. 🙌
@@TheNotoriousMIC I love the idea that the historic county is real, but the more recent one isn't. At come point some bloke drew some lines and decided to give it a name. Then someone else re-drew the lines and gave them another name :)
A lovely part of England. I like to get up those parts at least twice a year. this year we managed to take a trip on the Cumbria Coast Line up to Carlisle, then back down the Settle to Carlisle line. Love those small towns and villages not over developed like our small towns and villages down south. Wall to wall brick boxes all looking the same. Thanks for posting this.
What a brilliant video! Really good presentation, and I love the clear voice over with the views of the towns. Just one small point (and I hope you don't think I'm being picky), but i.e. is a written abbreviation and should always be read aloud as: that is to say.
I didn't know that "i.e." is solely intended for written purposes. Thanks for alerting us to that fact. It occurs to me that you may be the only English-speaking person in the world who is aware of that rule !
I.e. is short for "id est", which is Latin for "that is to say".
There is no rule against saying i.e. or e.g. in speech, although I appreciate the argument that stylistically it's better not to.
Brilliant video. Thank you.
I'm surprised that Coniston didn't get a mention. Copper mining, and speed records not withstanding, it's the largest town at the northern extremes of Lancahire. Coniston Old Man used to be the highest point in the county as well.
@@toxictony4230 still is the highest point in the county. Really wish people would get their facts straight before posting this nonsense and maybe we wouldn’t be in such mess right now.
Which county ?
"Barrow" often refers to a grave, it's a common part of many Lancastrian place names, and incidentally "Grange" comes from the French word for a barn associated with a monastery. I´m a Lancastrian immigrant in Spain and the sight of that pie shop on the right entering Grange gave me a huge pang of nostalgia for the English pie. Enjoyed the video, thanks.
I'm from Barrow and live here again now, love a nice meat and potato pie from the local pie shop 😊
I used to work in Florida with a guy from Lancashire. I can’t remember which town though. Great video talking history and showing us the towns. I really enjoyed that.
Thank you!
You managed to make Barrow look nice! That's a skill in of itself. Last time I was there (June this year) it was just as grey and grim as every other time I'd been there!
There is an interesting feature in the train station, though. There is a plaque commemorating the men of Barrow who died in WWI and next to it is another plaque noting that the first plaque was damaged by a Luftwaffe bomb in WWII.
@@magnusbruce4051 everywhere that used to be managed by Cumbria council that wasn’t in the national park has just been left in ruins. Hopefully now the administrative county of Cumbria has been abolished Westmorland and Furness council will do a better job.
@@TheNotoriousMIC Fingers crossed they can do something. With Barrow it seems like it's a victim of having just two industries - shipbuilding and drugs. The isolation doesn't help, either. There have been talks for decades about building a bridge across Morecambe bay to connect with North Lancashire but I can imagine how insanely expensive that would be versus how much benefit it would bring both areas.
@@magnusbruce4051Perhaps it could incorporate Tidal Generators to provide free energy for? Wouldn't want it to harm the wildlife though.
@ Barrow in Furness is in north Lancashire which is why Barrow FC has the red rose of Lancashire on its club emblem. There was talk of joining barrow with the rest of Lancashire ages ago but nobody really cares anymore. It’s just been left to rot but it’s a massive shame especially where it’s situated so close to the lakes.
@@francisraw9756 As far as I know, nobody has made a tidal barrage that big before. It would probably harm some wildlife (that was a major concern for the Severn barrage plans), but realistically if you want to make an omelette, you have to break some eggs.
Really enjoyed your film, great!
Another great video, thank you!
Thanks for watching!
As others have commented, there used to be a lot of small exclaves across England. One I find interesting is what is now the county of Rutland. It used to be an exclave of Nottinghamshire, if you go back far enough.
Ditto the Peterborough area; the former Soke of Peterborough was an exclave of Northamptonshire.
@IndigoJo The Soke wasn't actually an exclave as it was physically attached to the main county but administered separately
Crown Court hearings from cases in Barrow are still held in Preston, Lancashire
My mum was born in a cottage in Coniston and her birth certificate stated Lancashire… which I thought was an oddity.
Great video.
Liked and sub’d.
It's not really an exclave, but more of a detatchment. If you check out historic Worcestershire, you'll find it had the most exclaves of any English county.
Good video, well presented...County boundaries now changed again
Possibly the strangest county boundary is between Kent and Essex in the neighbourhood of Woolwich....
Not any more, sadly, since North Woolwich's 1965 incorporation in Newham. But the foot tunnel's still a reminder of the old connection.
Not "virtually unheard of". If you look at a copy of John Speed's Counties of Britain, first published in 1611/12, you can find literally dozens of county exclaves across England.
I was about to comment the same. You even look at Moules Maps of the 1830’s and for example Derbyshire had entire parishes surrounded by Leicestershire.
That’s true. Furness is or was probably the largest county exclave, but there was another that had one large town - Dudley was part of Worcestershire even though it was surrounded by Staffordshire. This, too, was an exclave only eliminated in 1974. Historically there were a lot of small enclaves and exclaves. Some were abolished in the 1880s when County Councils were set up and more in (I think) the 1920s as a conscious effort to tidy boundaries. The classic area with a rash of complicated boundaries was in Worcestershire, Warwickshire and Oxfordshire where there was a whole much of mixed up parishes where the counties met.
@ChrisMartin-b7l Add Gloucestershire too. My inlaws live in the county of Warwickshire with a CV Stratford-upon-Avon postal address but live in an old Worcestershire parish and come under a Worcestershire council but across the street some 15 metres away it's Gloucestershire.
Kent (back in the 1800s, when Kent extended well up into present day South East London) had an exclave in North Woolwich, North of the Thames.
It’s not even an enclave as Morecambe bay is in Lancashire and it’s never got any water in it so it isn’t actually split into two it only just looks like that on the map.
Yet another interesting relaxing watch. Ulverston is a really nice place and pleasant town and as you mentioned, birth place of Stan Laurel one half of two legends with a nice museum and pleasant surroundings. Went to Grange-Over-Sands once and found it a nice enough place to visit. Was never struck on Barrow on my visit there. I used to live in Lancashire in well known Blackpool and still a regular destination for me.
I’m a proud Barrovian, it gets a regular whipping from people but it has never done me any harm, lovely countryside, plenty of walks, surrounded by lovely beaches and nice people 😊🤩🦭
Never visited, but it looks nice in this video.
Keep it under your hat, one of the best kept secrets. We don’t wish hordes of ‘incomers’ visiting, spoiling the tranquility!
Surprisingly, in the Domesday Book Dalton is recorded as being in the county of Yorkshire.
I believe originally Lancashire was classed as part of Yorkshire pre-Norman conquest. Most of the Shires are of Saxon origin. From wikipedia - Lancashire was founded in the 12th century; in the Domesday Book of 1086 much of what would become the county is treated as part of Yorkshire and Cheshire. Until the Early Modern period the county was a comparatively poor backwater, although in 1351 it became a palatine, with a semi-independent judicial system.
Not an exclave but related, The western boundary of the town of Dartford, Kent is also the Kent /Greater London Boundary, with the London Borough of Bexley (this can be confusing as Bexley along with Bromley and various other places in that area still use the postal address 'Kent' but are now actually London Boroughs and not administered by or actually part of the present day Kent) There are a couple of cul de sacs or no 'No through roads' , where their entrance /exit is on the county boundary, Clive Avenue being one, so while in Greater London can only be accessed by crossing into Kent, these can be seen on openstreet maps. There is if I remember also the reverse, ie a cul-de-sac in Kent, with boundary across the access, so you can not travel to or from anywhere else in Kent without crossing first into Greater London.
Are there any other examples around the country (might even be fairly common?) where a road or street is cut off from its parent county as such, and you need to cross another county to access any other place in the parent county?
Very interesting! I may have to do a deep dive on that at some point. I'd imagine there are a few quirks like that around Dartford due to there being little, if any, green belt land separating it from London. The Essex-London border towards the eastern end of the Central Line springs to mind as well.
I think there's a cul-de-sac in Chester which can be only accessed by going through Wales.
Pentreheyling is in Shropshire. You can't drive very far from it without driving into Wales. While staying in England, you can drive about 2km to the east to a junction; there's a nearby farm in Wales which can only be reached via that junction.
Talking of strange borders Birmingham Airport is mostly in the Borough of Solihull except for the northern section ot the runway which is in Birmingham. So if you are arriving into BHX from the north you land in Birmingham but when you get off the plane you in Solihull!
Fascinating video. Thanks.
Interesting film.
I visited BAES many times on business over the last 20 yrs but reckon the Barrovian accent is quite different ftom Lancashire's.
Thought the Three Shire Stone might have figured?
Appreciate is Welsh, but when thinking of county exclaves, my first thought is always Flint, because we had an old wooden county jigsaw when I was a kid. And the tiny other bit of Flint was always getting stuck under the rim of the lid 🤣
Haha, nice! Yeah, I might look into Flintshire and Denbighshire at some point.
Flintshire was my first thought. Not only a county exclave, but a country one.
@@borderlands6606 both parts of Flintshire were in Wales but seperated by Denbighshire not England
@@pedanticradiator1491 The separate part of Flintshire was across the River Dee, which was the historic boundary between England and Wales.
@@borderlands6606 it was once yes but it hasn't been for centuries. In fact at one time Flintshire and Cheshire made up the semi independent Earldom or Palatinate of Chester
Cartmel - home of the original sticky toffee pudding, apparently ☺
The Sharrow Bay Hotel alongside Ullswater also claims to have invented it
Furness is not an exclave ‘only accessible a few days in the year over the sands’. In good weather it is generally possible to walk over the sands at low tide with a guide, although heavy rain will deepen the channels and make the mud precarious. Prior to 18th/19th century drainage of the bogs/mosses between Levens and Grange-over- Sands, the over- the-sands route would have been the main access to the Furness peninsular for anyone coming from the south, other than by boat. Also, the Furness peninsular is no longer in Cumbria, which has been abolished as an administrative county, but is part of Westmorland and Furness.
Cumbria is still a county for ceremonial, police and fire purposes
An excellent accidental discovery thrown up by UA-cam - thanks. My grandmother was born (or at least registered, I think it was actually a nearby village) in Ulverston. Her mother was by then living in West Yorkshire, but all her 12 siblings were born in historic Lancashire, as my great-grandmother apparently went back to HER mother's for every birth! Only the first few of this enormous brood were born while great-grandmother still lived near Ulverston. Quite a journey in the late 19th/early 20th century. The family had been predominantly iron miners but moved to work in the woollen mills near Bradford as presumably the iron ore was giving out. I live in South Wales where I was born and haven't been back to the area for many, many years - should make the effort!
I've long resented the change although with 2 big cities like Manchester and Liverpool in your county and a big dense area I guess the pressure was huge. I've recently found the Peninsulas an interesting destination starting at Sizergh Castle and Levens Hall, the Motor Museum and Lakeside Railway. Interesting hear the origins of the area.
Excellent video, so clear and precise. Fascinating, thank you!
Interestingly, no one ever says this with regards to Yorkshire and its cities Leeds, Sheffield, Bradford , Hull etc.
@timelord5920 if West Yorkshire was called Greater Leeds they might.
I wonder if they ever finished counting the holes in Lancashire? 🧐 🤓 😛
Great video as always!
😀🎶 "Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall...." 🎵
I remember when I was growing up the Isle of Wight was part of Hampshire.
Hi Alex, up till 1974 there were two exclaves near me, the historical county of Denbighshire had two exclaves of Flintshire the first had the village of Marford and the second was a bit bigger which had Is-y-Coed, Bangor on Dee and Marchwiel. In 1974 Denbighshire and Flintshire be came Clwyd and from that day the people did not like this new county until it changed in 1996 as the old counties returned so Clwyd became not two counties but now three and a bit, the bit is now Conwy as most of it was Gwynedd the return of Flintshire and Denbighshire and the new county, which was the biggest town ( known as capital of North Wales ) is the County and city of Wrexham. before 1974 Wrexham was in Denbighshire but those exclaves of Flintshire were near Wrexham and were address as nr Wrexham all tho they were a part of Flint. Today those exclave villages now are in the county of Wrexham. Great video, thanks
Cheers, yeah the North Wales border counties are probably a worthy topic for a future video at some point!
Halesowen was an exclave of Shropshire iirc
Thank you for the video very interesting
Very interesting I didn't know about this before.
I remember in the 60s/70s the weather forecast on Radio 4 (the Home Service, as was), worked its way round the UK and always mentioned 'Cumberland, Westmorland and the Furness district of Lancashire', which always sounded, to me, as a bit complicated!
This was interesting, didn't know much about Barrow, despite the fact I can see it across a bit of sea from Blackpool.
Some very pretty towns there. I watched a documentary once which didn't paint a particularly good picture of Barrow-in-Furness because it seems so disconnected from everywhere else, so opportunities aren't great.
The county carve up of April Fool's Day 1974 was a real travesty in so many places.
The notion that faceless bureaucrats had the power suddenly to dispossess people of their cherished county allegiances was naive at best.
Some of the damage (such as the creation of the highly contrived 'counties' of Avon, Hereford & Worcester and Humberside) has thankfully been reversed but alas much of it lives on.
The original proposals were a good deal more radical than the watered-down version adopted by the Heath government. Avon was an eminently sensible creation, scrapping the absurd county boundary between Bristol and adjacent areas; Humberside was perhaps a more optimistic amalgamation, but Herefordshire was just too small to be a county-level authority and had to go somewhere. Today's tangle of pseudo-"regions", two-tier counties, unitary areas and lower-level districts is just a mess: local government can't thrive in the 21st century on the basis of glorified parish councils and obsolete ancient boundaries unrelated to modern realities.
@@davepx1 I think for most people they don't mind how local and regional services are organised - they simply want to maintain their time-honoured historic county boundaries. I agree with you that we have a terrible tangle today.
@@LostsTVandRadio People care though if their council's inadequate for the task, or if administration's chaotic because there's a county boundary running through their conurbation. I do think the reformers of the 1960s-70s (and even the 1880s) erred in overwriting the ancient counties: it would have been better to retain the historic area for (very) limited ceremonial purposes alongside the new administrative one. But the old counties had to go as administrative units: it's a shame that half a century on, the structure needs ripping up again.
@@davepx1 Agreed!
As someone born in Barrow, Lancashire, in the late sixties, I can say that most people, certainly when I was growing up, felt a stronger affinity to the other industrial towns of Lancashire than they did to the smaller, more agricultural areas of the lake district. Much like other, bigger Lancastrian towns in the region, a good deal of the population of Barrow are third or fourth generation immigrants, mainly descended from the Scots and Irish who came to find work in the factories, which also distinguishes them culturally from the rest of Cumbria, and may well explain the accent difference too.
As someone born/raised in West Cumbria, I never got the whole "accent sounds Geordie" line - we and they sound as different as Manchester and Leeds to me, but to anyone from South of Carnforth it appears we all blend into one generic accent!
Very good, interesting and informative.
My only slight issue is being a very proud Lancastrian, I've always heard the term Palatine pronounced as you would the river Tyne. Pala Tyne if you like.
Otherwise, excellent.
Thank you. To be honest, I've never actually heard the word 'palatine' said out loud, so I'm happy to take your word for it on the pronunciation front!
@AlexinGreatBritain Many thanks. If you have never actually heard it spoken, then I can fully understand why you went for the pronunciation that you did, but I can assure you that certainly whenever I've heard it quoted, it has been pronounced as if written as Tyne at the end.
@@AlexinGreatBritain Trust me, ‘palatyne’ (not ‘palateen’) is the correct pronunciation.
Simonline 🏴🤔😀👍
There were 204 exclaves of all types in England and Wales alone.
Not after 1844 - and fewer still after 1888. Lancashire's northern outpost was a late survivor, even if only semi-detached.
@davepx1 which is why I used the past tense.
Twyford east of Reading in Berkshire was an exclave of Wiltshire prior to 1830
I can see how a mild Carlisle (pronounced ‘Caarlaal’) accent could get mistaken for a Teeside accent, but certainly not a Geordie one. Whereas a strong Carlisle accent can be pinpointed straight away. Very different from nearby Penrith which has a gentler, rural, sing-songy twang to it. Unsurprisingly, The Kendal accent sounds like Penrith with a hint of Lancashire. The South Cumbria accent (formerly North Lancs o’t’ sands of course) sounds Lancashire with a hint of Cumbrian!
*North Lancs o’t’ sands
**Lancs North o’t’ sands! (I didn’t have my coffee this morning 🤦♂️)
There are plenty of exclaves. Bedlingtonshire and Flint
Lancashire itself was a cobbling-together of three different areas: Lonsdale-Furness (including Lancaster itself), Amounderness (the Fylde) and the big southern lump "between the Ribble and the Mersey" which subsequently came to contain by far the greater part of the population until the two main conurbations were detached in 1974. Just as odd as the Furness/North Lonsdale exclave is the peripheral location of the county town, a legacy of the shire's tangled origins.
The Government at that time stated that the "new counties" were administrative areas only, and that the boundaries of traditional counties such as Lancashire had not been changed. Unfortunately, the media refer to these administrative areas all too frequently and ignore the fact that places such as Barrow-in-Furness, Liverpool, Manchester, Warrington, etc. are still in Lancashire.
If administrative areas had not been called counties much of this confusion would have been avoided
The original Lancastrian lands were all ocean facing, it surrounded a bay. It makes sense when you remember a lot of places around the U.K. were once more accessible by boat than by road. Goods weren’t carted cross country and eventually into large cities things were carted down to the nearest boat access and sailed to the cities.
Being new to Cumbria i knew of the geographical history of the county but not the reason why it was shaped like this.
What about Broughton-in-Furness? That was in Lancashire until the re-organisation in 1974.
Indeed, and one of the smallest towns in the country at that. I filmed all the footage in this video in a single day, and couldn't quite fit Broughton-in-Furness into the itinerary.
@@AlexinGreatBritain I was a youth in 1974 when Lancashire was butchered in the reorganisation. We lost our two biggest cities and slice of the Lake District. A sad day indeed.
great video! i'm from Barrow-in-Furness and i very much regard our town as being part of Lancashire, as you point out our accent is completely different to the Cumbrian brogue and in football i do not regard Carlisle United as being rivals in the true sense, Carlisle is miles away whereas Morecambe is much closer and they are our true rivals, sadly like many similar towns Barrow has declined significantly, the town centre is now dreadful but it is still a nice town to live in if one is working and living in one of the better parts, i suppose one could say that about any town, some of my friends are militant Lancastrians and still put the suffix of Lancashire on correspondence and do not accept the concept of Cumbria
all change again in 2023 Cumbria became split in two... Cumberland, and, Westmorland & Furness, really we should just use the traditional counties.
It is a bit of a myth that County boundaries hardly changed before "that nasty act of 1974 changed everything":) In reality we have acts of parliament and similar that got rid of enclaves etc several times in the 19th century - e.g. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_(Detached_Parts)_Act_1844. Later have entities like Huntingdonshire and the Soke of Peterborough, which disappeared in the 60's - the latter apparently only having been created in the 1880s. Reality is that once the borders were often not so important, but as the world became more "modern" they distinctly are now.
@@johnforrest695True but the considerable and often disliked by many 1974 changes are the biggest in living memory.
That would bring back all the exclaves that still existed in 1974, but still won't put Peteborough back in its true county, Northamptonshire.
The 1974 changes were comparatively mild when you look at what they might have been had the Radcliffe-Maud report been implemented
Westmorland and Furness includes a large part of historic Cumberland (Penrith, Alston and the lower Eden Valley) plus the Sedbergh area of Yorkshire
Very interesting....thank you!
Much appreciated!
I grew up in Lancashire until the 1974 changes put me in Merseyside. I now live in the even newer 2023 county of Westmorland and Furness...
I'm surprised you didn't mention Three Shires Head in Little Langdale where the old counties met.
As for accents, I woudl say that where I am in the north end of the Lakes, the accent is 'Cumbrian' and is a bit like a Lancashire accent but distinctly not the same as a Lancashire accent
That 'town hall' was probably built well before the 1880's. I suggest the near four years 'construction' was in fact a renovation.
Building work started in 1882, the local sandstone was not strong enough to support the weight of the tower so it had to be partially rebuilt. Finally opening in 1887 for the golden jubilee.
Carlisle accent is nothing like Newcastle.
Historically, transport by water was often easier than by land, especially when that land is the Cumbrian mountains, so Furness probably had more communication with the rest of Lancashire than it did with Kendal or Carlisle
I believe in relation to the English county boundaries immediately prior to the April 1974 changes Lancashire lost more territory than any other county.
That sounds very plausible, assuming you're referring to those that still exist today as ceremonial counties. It's ironic that Lancashire actually gained a little territory from Yorkshire of all places!
Berkshire had some big losses too. Strangely they lost their historic county town to Oxfordshire.
@@GingerLBCThat's interesting, Lincolnshire lost its Northern part including second and third largest towns of Scunthorpe and Grimsby, To Humberside which then in 1996 in turn reverted to a new North Lincolnshire and North East Lincolnshire, which are still separate from the original Lincolnshire, but part of the historical cerimonial country!.
@@AlexinGreatBritainThe original article I read (sorry can't remember where now) was referring to territory that transfered from pre April 1974 Lancashire to other present day administrations, eg Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Cumbria etc, as opposed to the cerimonial county.
@@AlexinGreatBritain Sorry, but no! Lancashire didn't "gain" territory from Yorkshire - we Lancastrians just got back what was rightfully ours anyway! 😂 Seriously though, excellent video and I thank you bigly for covering my beloved home county. 👍
By the way, I was 9 years old in 1974 but I remember my parents being absolutley furious about this, so much so they never voted Labour ever again. And that wasn't just for traditional/sentimental reasons either; those county border changes striped away the most lucrative parts of the county, and in the very midst of the 'Cod Wars', our costal town wasn't doing well as it was. It was a real hammer-blow.
My understanding is that the old "West Coast" route to Scotland was over the sands - neither over Shap as now nor even up towards Kendal and across. Thus the "King's Guide to the Sands" to help people across. With this in mind, Furness and Carmel do not really form an exclave. Good video though.
I'm from north Wales. 2 historic counties here had "exclaves" too...Caernarfonshire (Llysfaen) and Flintshire (English Maelor).
Dudley is another case. It used to be in Worcestershire even though it was surrounded by what was Warwickshire but is now West Midlands. It was many miles north of the rest of Worcestershire.
Dudley was surrounded by Staffordshire not Warwickshire and is only a few miles north of the rest of Worcestershire
I always call it Grange over Grass, the days of sands being there are long gone since the spartina grass arrived.
Interesting thanks 😊
I’m from Newcastle and I’ve been to Carlisle they sound much different to round here
Oh I've no doubt there are plenty of differences - it's just that the relation to Newcastle seems very evident in the Carlisle accent.
@@AlexinGreatBritain Even to me as a South Cumbrian, people from Carlisle sound a bit like Geordies. Not identical, but similar, and definitely different from around my area.
I think it's just to people who aren't Geordies. Probably in a similar way that as someone from south County Durham, if I speak to someone from further south (including North Yorkshire, they say I have a Geordie accent (which I definitely don't, even though I love the Geordie accent), if I go to Scotland, some think I might be from North Yorkshire. People from the North East are usually better at placing the accents. I guess it's the same with this. I wouldn't think a Carlisle accent sounded Geordie, but I guess it sounds more Geordie than someone from further south. A bit more washed out Geordie, like our County Durham accents. Northumbrian Dialect probably plays a part in that too.
That’s my home town! Dalton-In-Furness 💜
anyone else spot the Floral & Hardy florist in Ulverston? 😁
One of the best shop names in the country, that!
Wokingham, now in Berkshire, was once an exclave of Wiltshire.
Part of the town was.
I contract for the NHS in this area, and they still use the old county borders for services.
Cumbria is no more as an administrative county. It has been split into two unitary authorities, the first being a re-created Cumberland and the second being "Westmorland and Furness". The latter, though, contains a large of chunk of what used to be part of Cumberland pre-1974.
It is still a ceremonial county.
I'm feom Worcestershire and we used to have the most enclaves and exclaves
Thanks!
Thanks, Dianne. Much appreciated! :)
It was a result of Westminster attempting to reduce the power of the northern powerhouse and replacing it with a divided county . It had 68 MPs in its day largest of any county the county still exists only the administrative boundary was changed .
I remember when North Woolwich was the only bit of Kent north of the Thames. Is it still so? I doubt it.
Part of Newham since 1965. I suppose it still counts as "ancient" Kent, but I don't think that has any practical application. But the foot-tunnel survives!
@@davepx1 Thanks!
If you think us Carlisle folk sound like Geordies, you need to give yer head a long and vigorous shake.
That dig at manchester town hall😂
Harking back to ww2 and the German bombing, my father was a 12/13 year old boy at the time. His best friend was killed in one raid when an incendiary bomb hit his house, went through the roof, the bedroom ceiling... then through his friend and the bed he was sleeping in.
Always thought Barrow meant Hill.
I believe it can refer to man-made hills (such as burial mounds), though I haven't seen much evidence of those in the immediate area... unless you count the old industrial slag heaps.
KEPN says this Barrow means hill-island, not "bare island". Most other Barrows mean "grove of trees". Meanwhile a barrow in the landscape is a burial mound.
I am a Kendalian by birth, we have a few places in and around Kendal with Barrow in the name, Kirk (meaning Church) Barrow (Hill) Underbarrow (Underhill) and on near Grange, Backbarrow.
Interesting, for me, this array of certain meaning for Norwegian words. Keep up the discussions.
I was forced into an enclave unwillingly yonks ago, brought up In Royal Berkshire, the 'Authorities' decided Thomas Hardy and I were incorrect and grabbed a huge chunk to incorporate in to lowly Oxfordshire , only known for the Christminster development! Ancient Brits travelled the Ridgeway in Berkshire once but now their descendants walk the same road in Oxfordshire, the border squirrelled away approx 8 miles northwards to lie on the bottom of the boring River Thames! Progress?, my arse!
(not an enclave)
Alex. I confess to being an ignorant American. What factors drove the change in county borders in 1974? Population for seats in parliament? But as usual thanks for the education
Not ignorant at all! It's a very niche topic, even over here. I believe the idea was to streamline the structure of local government, and to better govern the densely populated urban areas by creating the metropolitan counties (Greater Manchester, Merseyside, West Midlands etc). Some of it may have been a bit of general housekeeping, like adjusting a few borders to deviate from rivers which used to split towns into two counties in a few cases. Us Brits are typically resistant to change though, so many take the newer counties with a pinch of salt when it comes to identity.
@@AlexinGreatBritain I think I remember, as a 16 year old in 1975, that certain functions eg education, were governed by Preston and that Liverpool and Manchester chafed against this. So Merseyside and Greater Manchester became separate unitary authorities with all local government functions under one roof.
The key thing is that even by the 1960s counties (or shires) were important units of local government and yet the boundaries of these counties had remained almost unchanged for a thousand years. A lot of population growth and change had occurred and so Parliament was trying to create a new system of local government that better fitted 1970s England. The previous system also had lots of tiers of local government with different powers, the 1974 reforms essentially created a streamlined structure to local government with counties (the largest upper tier authorities) and districts within those counties providing more local services
As the change resulted in the centre of mass of Lancashire being further south, the hope was the weather would be better.
@@thereunionparty it was more complicated than that. Back then, there were county boroughs (a town had to have a population of at least 50,000 to qualify) and these had some autonomy from the “rural districts” and other towns, for services such as policing. So a town like Blackburn, for example, was a county borough with its own police force. The surrounding rural areas - Blackburn Rural District (these now form part of the Ribble Valley) - were policed by the Lancashire Constabulary county force. A similar situation with looking after roads, and so on. Eventually, the county borough system was scrapped in the 1974 local government reorganisation.
The Lake District was spread across 3 counties
If you die intestate in any of the towns you feature, and no heir can be found, then your inheritance can still be claimed by the Duke of Lancaster as a consequence of you living in the old county palatine. Your property in practice becomes part of a fund, the incorporated Duchy of Lancaster, which pays an income to the King of England as Duke of Lancaster which is distinct from the Civil List. His Grace cannot lay hands on the capital of this fund, so it is an estate in tail which resembles the modern interest in possession trust.
The accounts of the Duchy of Lancaster are not filed at Companies House, but are published by placement in the House of Commons Library. They can also be found on the Duchy’s website. Note that apparent income from a series of reversions of property to the Duchy is not treated in these accounts as headline income. It isn’t.
Manchester pre dates Lancashire by several centuries, I refuse to accept Lancashire. Manchester is my city and Greater Manchester is my county.
I'm from South Lakeland, which has recently been squished in with Furness to form Westmorland and Furness. Lancaster can have it back...
South Lakeland district included most of the Furness and Cartmel area anyway
@ They can take that and all!
Nice to see towns which haven't been destroyed by 20th century developments.
The borders actually aren't that strange; even when you can't walk across Morecambe Bay, you can take a boat across it and that was probably the most common way of reaching Furness from elsewhere in Lancashire before the rails came, and probably even after. (There aren't any ferries to Barrow from south Lancs now though; I checked.)
The real question that needs to he asked is why? Why was Lancashire broken up following the Maud Redcliffe Report? What were the real motivations of the Heath Government?
The Redcliffe Maud report was commissioned by the 1st Wilson Labour government. The recommendations made by the Heath government resulting in the 1972 act were influenced by the earlier report but were in many cases not as drastic for example Redcliffe Maud proposes that England was to be divided into provinces and the Metropolitan counties were to be a lot larger
@pedanticradiator1491 I'm well aware of that and it was the Heath Government that implemented it.
@@WildOwlFilms actually when the 1972 act changes were implemented in 1974 Labour under Wilson had recently returned to power
@pedanticradiator1491 Given the complexity of stopping the changes, wheels already in motion hardly surprising.
They still are in Lacashire
A Carlisle accent sounds nothing like a Newcastle accent.
County exclaves and enclaves are not that rare. Before county borders were reorganised several times in the 19th and 20th centuries there were many especially in the Midlands.
😮 The Carlisle accent sounds nothing like the Newcastle accent! Wash your ears out! 😂
Lancashire over the sands.
I remember well having to show papers to cross Duddon bridge, we've never accepted the meaningless Cumbria and long for the days when Cumberland people could light watch fires and keep out stray Lancastrians, ah the good old days.
British Michigan.
The enclave was not contiguous with the rest of lancashire a term i learned of.tv on eggheads.Dave myers the Hairy Biker adopted a geordie type accent.I am guessing because of si being his good ..mate!But in doing this ,i think he betrayed his Barrow in Furness origins..i .am saying this without trying to be disrepectful to dave R.I.P
Haematite is not a high grade iron ore, it is a low grade ore. The principal high grade ore of iron is magnetite.
It was also on that date in 1974 when Yorkshire rose above Lancashire with the latter's loss of the Old Man of Coniston, where three counties met, as its highest point at 2,633 feet. Henceforth, Yorkshire's highest point, Mickle Fell, at 2,585 feet was to overshadow the best that Lancashire could do, Green Hill, at a mere 2,060 feet.
Incorrect. The old man of Coniston is still the tallest mountain in Lancashire. It never was in Cumbria.
@@TheNotoriousMIC Not according to the government. Coniston is now entirely in Cumbria. Take up the argument with them. The Historic Counties are exactly as the name suggests; historical boundaries. That's fine if it suits your purposes, but it means that Battersea would still be in Surrey and Abingdon would be in Berkshire.
So I am not incorrect, I'm just using current definitions. You on the other hand are being deliberately abstruse, confrontational or even rude.
@ incorrect again. You’re being rude by calling my home by the wrong name and now you’re continuing to be rude and disrespectful by continuing to call my home by the wrong name even though you’ve just been corrected.
Maybe you need to take it up with the government.
"The new county boundaries are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change despite the different names adopted by the new administrative counties.”
Government statement issued on 1st April 1974 and printed in the Times newspaper
In future to comment on subjects you don’t understand.
@TheNotoriousMIC you are simply obnoxiously confrontational. Yes, I am talking of administrative counties. They once mirrored historic countily boundaries, but no longer. I should add also, they are the current boundaries shown on current Ordnance Survey maps, and also the recognised postal counties.
So, within the very obvious context of this video, I am correct. I am only incorrect in the definition of county you chose to use, but then you didn't care to qualify, but preferred to act like a dick. That you can do of course, but then choosing to be an arrogant oaf is a personal choice you have made.
So, instead of being civilised and nuanced you prefer the pig-headed approach.
Incidentally, county boundaries have changed through time, not just in April 1974.
Mickle Fell was moved into County Durham in 1974
Ta
Ge0 engineering skies, chemmtrails.
Sad.
Not interested until you handle immigration.
Bit narrow-minded in our interests, are we ?
@Gerard_2024 yeah, it's just cyanide in the soup, right?
Kinda hard to appreciate anything when you're too busy avoiding the gangs. You better build yourself a Trump.😜
@Gerard_2024 btw imagine what a 10? year old girl nailed to a tree looks like. They really don't like women learning to read.
Hey how long do you think the child screamed? It takes hours to die, remember?
I'm guessing Gerard has never seen a little girl crucified for learning to read.
I have.
I wonder how long she screamed.
@@gandalfstormcrow8439 The topic of this video is exclaves in England, in case you hadn't noticed. While the points you make are certainly and worthy of interest, I do not think that this is the correct forum in which to discuss them.