Shop built dust collection vs Oneida Dust Deputy (1/2) - HNB #8
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2017
- See how this simple and easy cyclone separator compares to the Oneida Dust Deputy. We put the DIY dust collector and the Dust Deputy though a series of tests to see which one performs best.
You can build this DIY cyclone collector with a few dollars worth of PVC pipe fittings and some scrap plywood. The Dust Deputy can be purchased from many online retailers including Amazon (amzn.to/2vGyK2h). - Навчання та стиль
I've made some modifications to the simple cyclone and conducted a 2nd experiment using a Thein Baffle. Check out the results here: ua-cam.com/video/S5ryW5Fm_Sc/v-deo.html
I use the size 1 and 1/0 Mustad hooks to freeline for snook ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxzXmlErSqVAEGWFEKO530BvTqFDw53QW3 and they have been fantastic. The points are super sharp, and the hook is small enough to blend with my baitfish, yet large enough to land fish 30" or more. I also use these hooks when I'm pier or surf fishing with my kids. They tend to catch tons of smaller snapper, whiting, and catfish, and we get far fewer gut hooks with these Mustad in-lines, which means more of them survive after release. I was actually using these hooks when I caught my friend too, but I think that had more to do with the bait I was using ;-)
It sure does suck! 😆
Thank you for your diligent testing. It really helps
Glad you found it helpful, thanks for watching!
I'm just now starting my investigation of a future purchase of dust deputy. I appreciate you taking the time to demonstrate the dust deputy against the DIY you made for this video.
Glad you found it helpful, Mike! Other than being out $50, you can't really go wrong with the Dust Deputy.
Thanks for the video. I look forward to more in the future.
You got it scoop! More like this to come soon, hopefully. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Very well done, thank you!! I'm trying to get away from a high dust system and it tipping over on job site.
Check out the Thien baffle design, it is a similar design to what I presented but it adds a baffle on the bottom which solves the problem of dust swirling around. I plan on building something like that, and if it works as well as the Dust Deputy, I'll switch to that.
good luck on your channel you already have some great content. thanks for taking the time to make this video and welcome to youtube
Thanks Chris, glad you're enjoying the videos.
As the bucket gets full it degrades the cyclone .. where as on the other hand the deputy always has its cyclone space available.
I look forward to the rematch!
It's in the works! Thank you for your support, cheers!
Great test!
Thanks bud!
Very interesting and helpful. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the feedback, glad you found it helpful!
As a note, the Dust deputy inlet is on the side of the "barrel" which aids in creating a vortex. On ur DIY version you had the inlet in the top, so the dust just drops in the bucket. This may explain the drop in performance at half full, because there is no vortex, so the existing dust will potentially suck back up preventing further suction.
In addition the Dust Deputy vortex chamber is in addition to the collection bucket. The diy version the vortex and collection happen in the same unit. Again, a potential explanation for the drop in DIY performance, since the vortex created hasn't got enough clear height to form properly and deposit the dust. Just my observations, hope they help.
Yes, and when the stack of sawdust gets high enough it's close enough to the hose inlet that the hose just sucks it up. It is a pretty beefy vac! Thanks for watching!
Good test and video!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
This is a good comparison, mostly. The one thing I noticed was that the bucket was not in the same spot on the scale each time it was weighed. This was evident when you did the measuring when the bucket was partial full. You zeroed out the scale when the lip of the bucket was hanging over the scale and partially over the led screen. After you vacuumed up the sawdust, the bucket lip was at the edge of the scale plate. This difference in center of gravity shift alters the readings. You should have placed a block of wood or something on the scale and placed the bucket on that so that it was in the same place each time it was measured.
In both times, with the bucket empty and partially full, you didn't have to keep cycling the vacuum and/or recapture sawdust that didn't make it into the unit when using the homemade version. With the prefab unit, you had to re-vacuum several times to get all of it collected. This is something you did not mention in your review. If debris is being left in the hose and not being collected, over time it will cause a larger obstruction in the hose and completely cut off the vacuuming ability to pick up debris.
The homemade version didn't have a problem with picking up and delivering the contents to the bucket. This alone would give the homemade version an advantage, even if some of the debris ends up in the shopvac canister. You wouldn't have to worry about hoses getting clogged up.
I think there needs to be a re-evaluation of these two units and give them a proper review.
Good suggestions. I'll keep these in mind for my next video. Thanks for watching, cheers!
The purpose of any cyclone addon is not to just pic up the sawdust, but to keep it out of the shop vacuums itself! that fine dust will eventually clog the filter and cause the motor to overheat and shorten its life. The real test is to start with its can empty, then vacuum up the measured saw dust and see how much made it through the cyclones to the shop vac itself! The Dust Deputy does a really good job of preventing most of it.
I agree, the Dust Deputy works great. I still use it as my primary means of dust collection. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Add a Thien baffle and your DIY setup will perform much better. It will also work much better if you make a tangential entry vs a 90 degree fitting. Less turbulence means much better separation and less pressure drop.
Also, the Dust Deputy will increase its lead if you move to finer dust. Corn starch is good for testing fine particle performance. Once you run dust through the cyclone, don't pull it out and retest it because the cycloned dust doesn't contain much of the the finest dust and that will skew your results.
Even the best cyclone designs are less than 50% efficient for particles under 0.5 microns. Those are the particles that get deepest into your lungs and cause the most health issues. For that reason, always use a good filter downstream of the cyclone (which it sounds like you did). I say that because I tested one without using a filter downstream and was very surprised to see the super high particle count (using a laser particle counter) in my shop even though I couldn't see or smell the dust.
It definitely would Tony. I am going to try something like that as soon as I can get around to it.
Hack 'n Build check out the last vacuum system hack that Marius Hornberger did. It's one of the best I've seen so far.
Thanks for posting your build and test results. I've built quite a few separators now and I always appreciate those who take the time to share their builds. .. especially the few that post test results. Thumbs up!
If you find a way for the outlet of the home made to suck the air downward maybe with a 180 elbow or by putting the end part of the pipe inside a margarine pot held in place with four pieces of wood I think it would solve the problem.
Check out my 2nd revision of the DIY dust collector. Thanks for watching. Cheers!
I think its the distance to your intake and outlet pipes from the greater of the bottom of the bucket or the top of the wood shavings. For the diy the max distance is the height of the bucket. For the cyclone its the height of the bucket plus another 16 inches to the height of one of the intake/outlet pipes. Engineer a taller container for the DIY version and performance will be comparable. Over versions use two buckets stacked on one another. They do it specifically to avoid the collector filling up too quickly.
Let me know how it goes if you try it!
you can try extend the piping outward the lid , see how that will work out.
Check out my follow-up video, Aron - I changed up the design and improved it a bit. Thanks for watching, cheers!
I have the same vac, and had to do a hack job with the vac hoses. They have some weird sizes for connections
Hey if it works....
Nice comparison, but I would just vacuum straiht from the container without dumping on the ground, as that way any dirt on the ground doesn't affect your results and you will collect all the saw dust that is being tested.
Yep. It would have been better to not dump it out. Good catch.
The dust deputy would not work if it was half full either. You made a separator, put it on top of a separate storage bin and it will continue to work better. The reason it works better is volume. It has time/space for the air to spread out and slow down and the particles to fall away down the wall. Cut out most of the bottom and screw it down to a wooden disc with a similar hole, gasket or sealant. And it will function great. I have made a large version with a 55 and 35 gallon poly drum, works great, I put a bag in the lower drum and pull out the bag at clean out time...
Actually, it works just as well when the bucket is nearly full as you can see in the experiment. The problem is with the single-stage system once the saw dust pile gets high enough, it just starts getting vacuumed up. Thanks for watching, cheers!
I like the effort but, in my only opinion, the real concern is keeping fine dust out of the filter. I could care less if the larger chunks end up in the bottom of my shop-vac. It's all about a cleaner filter and if the cyclone consistently does that it's always going to be the clear winner. I have two dust deputies, one for each shop-vac. Expensive...sure, but I like them a lot, I just wish I could reduce some of the bulk of my setup.
I don't disagree, event adding a baffle as I did in my next experiment you still see that fine dust is making into the vacuum and presumably the filter.
It fails as it gets fuller because the 90 becomes a obstruction of the flow. It deflects the cyclone action. Notice the cyclonic kinetic energy is A: taking place prior to entering the bucket and B: not being deflected. As that elbow deflects the dust inside the bucket it slows it down resulting in the path of least resistance, your filter.
This is one suggestion I've read a lot. It would be interesting to see how much performance could be improved by altering the radius of the intake port.
That video was really interesting cuz I'm planning to build myself 8 dust collector but now you got me thinking of buying one made awesome
Glad you found it helpful! Thanks for watching, cheers!
could you convert the DIY to a thein baffle and re-run this? I was contemplating making one and would be interested in seeing how it compares to a dust deputy.
Nick, planning on doing that or something pretty close to it. Stay tuned!
The difference at 50% full situation obviously comes from the height of the separator. Once the dust reaches the surface in the DIY version, it will be sucked to the center tube. If the there would be more height, suction would not be able to pull the dust up. To be fair, the DIY version should have same height as the dust deputy + bucket total height.
That's just how I designed them. If you make a video comparing the other approach feel free to drop the link here and I'll post it in the description.
I have a similar plastic cyclone and I make a 4 sided tapered to the bottom box with a flat lid and a window/door air seal strip under it. My dust collection is almost 100% with alliuminum, sanding, planing, drop saw, general vacuuming and sucking up leaves and dust from my driveway. The top of my box is also a tight fit for a plastic rubbish bag so I can empty all the dust straight out. The only thing to watch is when cutting wet timber watch for build-up on the entry point of the cyclone. I won't use a bucket as my vacuum will suckered it to pieces if the hose blocks. The corners on the box are all mitred sealed and taped on the outside but I can still see flexing in the 18mm sides when using a reduced hose size. What I'd like to see is someone use a drain pipe with a cyclone on one end mounted to a wall with a clear plastic rubbish bag tied to the bottom. I know the bag would suckered into the pipe but I thing as the rubbish built up the bag would drop down each time the vaccum stopped.
I'd be worried about the bag too. I bet you could do something with a spring loaded mechanism that releases a trap door when the bucket gets full.
Hack 'n Build its a similar way to how a purpose made concrete floor sanding vaccum works. As the dust builds up it keeps the bag lower down.
Hack 'n Build I just looked it up by searching concrete dust collection. They use a purging system that basically you collect the dust in the extractor and every 5mins the extractor drops the dust into the bag. I'd still like to try it with just a bag. I realise there'd be lag while the bag sucks up but if you're using it for multiple cuts or planing etc this wouldnt be an issue. Also it'd work best with a flanged end where the bag attach's. I've been keeping an eye out for a large diameter drain pipe off cut to try it my self. My original idea was to do pretty much what you've done using the pipe bends but the intake would be about 2/3 the way up a 1m drain or what ever was required to get above the bag when it was sucked in and either have out take centre at the top or off to one side. Which ever increased the cyclone action. But using a cyclone the pipe could be wroughly the height of the cyclone shorter. All of this would be in aid of safely removing the dust. I tried to just line my before mentioned box with a bag by making sure the box was sealed from the outside, it worked a little but to work properly I'd need to have a constant vaccum outside the bag as well as in. This could be achievable by looping the outtake hose from the cyclone to the bottom or the box and out again using a fine meshed off area at the base of the box but I haven't tried it yet.
Sounds like an interesting thing to experiment with. Let me know if you try it out!
Thanks
You're welcome, Robert!
The DIY version has both attachments(exhaust and suction) on the top. So it blows straight down and stirs up the dust inside he bucket so it's sucked into the vacuum. If the suction hose came in from the side and at an angle you would get much better results from the DIY version.
P ar, I don't think that wouild make a difference since it is already using a 90 elbow and so is "coming in on an angle". I did a 2nd version where I added a baffle, which does help some (ua-cam.com/video/S5ryW5Fm_Sc/v-deo.html). If you do an experiment with a 90 intake vs a straight intake on the side, let us know how it goes! I probably won't make any more dust collectors of this variety since they just don't perform as well as true 2-stage cyclone. Thanks for watching, cheers!
what are your exact dementions of plywood circles for dust deputy for 5 gal plastic bucket ?
Good question. I want to say it was around 7-7/12" inches. What I did to figure it out was use a pair of dividers, measured the diameter and divided by two. For the top circle I made it slightly biger than the outside of the lip.
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Two 5 gallon buckets are most effective.
I found it impossible to get hose that matched the ports on the plastic cyclones.
The standard 2.5" hose fit snugly for me. I also purchased an adaptor kit, which works with the smaller diamater sizes. What is the inner diamater on the hose you're using?
that's my point, I couldn't get hoses that fit. I've since bought a 2nd hand SIP collector, it has 4in hoses !!! It has massive suction and works very well
what size hole saw for dust deputy plywood /?
2.5"
But, collecting 186g from 200g... 93%, I consider it "not perfect. Though, it's good for the information and to find better ways to collect it. Thanks.
I did repeat the experiment off-camera a few times and got the full 200g with the Dust Deputy. I think depending on the way the hoses were plugged in some dust got caught up around the edges of the hose which accounted for the shortage. For all practical purposes, as long as you remember to empty out the bucket when it starts to get full you're good to go: You won't have to empty the vacuum or clean/change the filter.
It would have been nice if you would have cleaned the inside of the vacuum first, then show the after results for each system. Would either system be better at collecting fine dust?
The filter was cleaned and the vacuum emptied before beginning the experiment. Based on the results of the first few tests, there wasn't any sawdust in the bucket or clogging the filter until we tested the "full" bucket with the simple DIY cyclone. So, perhaps the quarter full test would have performed better had the filter been cleaned out. Good thought for a future video!
I bought a Chinese copy of the Dust Deputy for twenty-something dollars. I just couldn't see spending $70 (at the time), for a piece of plastic. It works really well, but as expected a small amount of fine dust manages to find its way to the vacuum filter. I think part of the problem is that my vacuum has a lot of power and not all of the fine dust goes into the bucket. It looks like your vacuum is really powerful as well. It's the fine dust that clogs the filter, not the big pieces.
Yeah, that vacuum is a beast. Honestly, it's so big it's a little unwieldy but the extra power is nice.
one separates waste above the collection point the other uses the collection container.. results are going to be different
Yeah, I was really hoping the simple dust collector would be better. I did make some improvements to it though to get a bit more performance out of it.
the oneida has the height of two buckets i think is not a fair comparison
Good point Jose. I think the lack of performance with the fuller bucket had more to do with the fact that the dust in the bucket gets swirled around every time the vacuum comes on and eventually piles up on the sides. Making the bucket taller as you suggest would allow more room for the dust to accumulate and still allow the cyclone action to happen. A quick an easy way to do this would be to just stack a 2nd bucket below and cut a hole in the top. Another way would be to add a plywood baffle.
Nice video! Good Info. The Oneida should earn few more points for having more pros than cons in addition to being a bit more long-term reliable with higher capacity. Although with the increased amount of material the Oneida can retain in the co-bucket, I can imagine how the increased weight of the bucket can be a con.
Overall, I am happy with the Dust Deputy. Still using it too. That may change as a refine my DIY setup, though.
You never zeroed out your scale to account for the container you weighed the sawdust with. When you got your 186 out of 200 some of that difference was the container.
It was zeroed out, just done off camera. Note the scale reads -56 and not 0. 56g is the weight of the container within a couple of grams. You can verify this by watching one of the segments where I zero out the scale and then remove the full container. The scale reads -56g.
I do see that now. Thank you for taking the time to reply. I like your video. You did well composing everything and video work is good. Thanks for the info.
Glad you liked it! There's another dust collection video coming soon, so stay tuned!
I look forward to it. I've reached the point at my home shop that the dust is out of control. I'm going to be making a system here soon. Hence the reason I found your vid. I quite often like to make the simple things rather than buy them. Thanks for the content!
Why not vacuuming from cup?! Why dump on floor!
Vacuuming up piles of sawdust isn't a realistic use case for dust collection.
On the home made unit both pipes should have an elbow and they should not be facing each other so this test was bogus and I say it from experience I built one many years ago and it works fantastic to this day but it does loose performance at almost full witch is expected so I have a plexiglass window in mine so I can se when to empty put an elbow on the other pipe and test again
The tests were run with the pipes shown at 1:24. I suspect adding 90 degree elbow to the vacuum side would decrease performance since you're adding an extra bend which would result in decreased airflow. Feel free to run your own experiment and let us know!
Hack 'n Build my comment stated it works and does not decrease the flow
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This isn't a correct reading. If the suction can lift one partical of dust it should be able lift all of it. It should be a reading of the amount of weight the suction can lift dead.
What would you do differently, Mitch?
I think you are biased on your review since you have owned the dust deputy for a few years. I am not sold on the dust deputy being better.
I am not trying to convince, just sharing my experience and observations 😎
By the way, check out the sequel to this video. I improved the DIY dust collector a bit. ua-cam.com/video/S5ryW5Fm_Sc/v-deo.html
not 200grams as you forgot to take weight of tunb off.! should have used empty pot .zero to scales first then weighed sawdust out
not accurate readings
I did do that. It's done by using the tare function on the scale. You'll notice when that's done the unladen scale reads -56g, the weight of the container.
Test really proves nothing. The numbers mean very little. Look at the video, where did the sawdust not in the tub go. There was nothing visible left on the floor. If it is in the house ribs, it will either be sucked up next emptying cycle or be left I. those. Either way, the sawdust is off the floor and collected, which was the goal. Seems the $10 option just as effective as the $40 one. The real test is how much was carried to main vacuum canister and what was condition of its filter. A 2 stage vacuum system is meant to keep the more expensive last filter from clogging!
Terra, it's safe to assume that the dust either ends up in the vacuum or not. Since both tests were done the same way, I think it's a pretty fair comparison. I did a follow-up video to this where I made some design imporvements, but it's still not as good as a true 2-stage system. Thanks for watching, cheers!
Maybe have some music playing softly throughout and then edit in your narration over top. The dead air gaps were annoying.
I'd like to start adding music to future videos but haven't decided on anything yet. Thanks for watching.
Really? This is getting VERY anal about his video. The brief moments when he wasn't speaking were annoying? How do you watch TV ever?? Lol
Get a bigger bucket.
Could do that, but hen I would need a bigger shop too!
Seriously? These two systems are not even close to being the same, let alone comparable! Smh!
Well, I compared them! How do you like them apples? 🍎🍏