The term "Christian Nationalism" is a new term in our society, but what does it mean? Hear from Paul Basden on how it is affecting our culture. prestontrail.org
Jesus was a Power mad freak that got nailed to the cross for treason. Jesus followers most likely got him dead from walking over that line in the dirt. Rome was a evil, greedy, sadistic corrupted empire. the only reason Jesus survived is for connections to the ruling class, gold or being roman. Very hard to become a citizen without being roman, rich or connected to influenceable nations that was the case of Arminius that was of the line of jarls who was giving as hostage to Rome. A gifted leader of men who tricked the romans army into a planned ambush that made driving Rome out of the Germanic lands, almost bloodless on the part of the Germanics. Herman the German. Who was assassinated once his use was over by the Germanic kings, who do not share power or Herman just become to corrupted by the romans to be allowed to live and the reason many Germanics were converted later nor earlier. the Romaan empire had no power over the Germanics. The roman Christian emperor had the power to force romans and its conquered nations to convert. Christianity is in a sense the roman empire.
That is theologically and historically false. If what you say is true...there could only be individual no Christian families, or communities. If Jesus Christ is Lord. Then is good and necessary to pass laws in accordance with this end.
@@felixguerrero6062 It is not historically false. Nations are on a much bigger scale then small communities. And operate differently. Lots of people, lots of different POVs lots of thoughts (even if many of sheepified minds).
@@felixguerrero6062 “there has never been a literal Christian nation in this world. The only Christian nation is the gathered communities of Christian believers all over this world” Alexander Campbell American reformer.
It is so refreshing to hear someone speaking the truth about American history. Our country is not and never has been a Christian nation even if the majority is Christian. You are indeed right, a country can not be Christian but people can. The Puritans and the Pilgrims wanted to create a theocracy but they were not among the Founding Fathers. Neither were the Native Americans, the Spaniards in the Southwest, the French in Louisiana, nor the Russians in Alaska. The Founding Fathers founded our nation with no state religion or an establishment of religion of any kind. It is scary to hear people proclaim that we were always a Christian nation because the Founders were devout Christians who founded America on the Bible. It is scary because it is not true but apparently millions think it is true and they feel persecuted that they can not force their version of Christianity on the rest of us. Thank you from a lifelong student of history.
You can also find proof of this simply by looking at the reasons why some of the early settlers came to the United States and the governments that existed in Europe at that time. Some of the first settlers that came to America were coming here due to religious persecution, simply put their version of Christianity wasn't the predominant version that controlled the government. So why would anyone think that they would be okay with the government of their new land following that same path? On top of that the English King that our Founding Fathers were fighting had his position due to the belief of divine right, it was literally the case that he was King because God chose him to be King. And the church was so powerful that they could literally take a person's land simply by excommunicating them. They would never set up a government where any one religion had that much influence or control over the new government. The sad thing is all we have to do is look at Iran and see what happens when a specific religion gains too much power in a secular government. And now these Christian Nationalists want to do the same thing with the United States, just with a different religion.
Thank you so so much. Your video brought me to tears. Part of the reason I left the church was due to what I now understand as Christian Nationalism. I don't understand all the hatred and demonization of anyone who isn't exactly the same, and I am heartbroken.
I agree that the attitudes many Christian groups have towards anyone not like them is a major turn off. However, Christian Nationalism is another discussion entirely.
As a devout Christian I really appreciate this vid..great job! I honestly think far too many American Christians have replaced the Gospel with politics, & it pains me to see so-called Christian leaders promoting politics, it dilutes the Gospel!
Thank you for your reply. There's no doubt that politics is with us to stay, and we have to learn as Christ-followers how to be good citizens and good patriots, while still seeking first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.
They have taken Jesus right out of their beliefs and have replaced Jesus with themselves and their insatiable hunger for power. Christian Nationalism is so anti-Christ its not even funny. Any Christian who believes that they deserve a privileged position in the public space by virtue of being a Christian is following something, but it's not Jesus. Christian Nationalism fear and despise Sharia Law for example, yet seem to have absolutely no problem pushing Christian dogma into Government. I mean, what's it gonna be? You can't have it both ways. In my opinion, the greatest threat to the US right now is the rise in Christian extremism.
@@zZavies wasn’t there somebody that said something about give to Caesar what is Caesar’s? At least to that person religious piety and political participation seemed to be separable. If the suggestion though is that a particular religious morality should be enforced via political power, how do we go about deciding what that looks like exactly? Should we go with Catholicism since this is the largest sect of Christians, and force you and your family to go to mass every Sunday by threat of prosecution? Or should we dissolve the military wholesale and outlaw self-defense in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount teaching that we are not to resist evil with violence?
I can’t rationally call America or Canada Christian nations knowing full well other peoples were here first. It spits in the faces of all First Nations and Native American peoples.
By this logic he can't even call the church Christian. Also, he uses heuristics all the time. It's impossible to get through life without them, so his challenge at the end isn't truly a fair one.
The point is a church is a construct. You can't baptize a church. It cannot learn, confess, or reason. It's an idea. The people inside that church is what makes it christian. A person can be Christian, a church is a concept/name, based on what this PEOPLE believe.
There’s a third story, Pastor Paul. A community of Christians who aren’t ashamed of their nationality (ethnos), who love their country and their countrymen, and who seek to vote and act for the health and well-being of their own people, and who desire to see their own nation, along with all nations, recognize the Authority and Love of Christ in all things, for the good of all people. What should we call that?
Stop conflating with constructive criticism of america and calling out the racism and intolerance with being ashamed of America. There’s always been that in American history lol. When u say you love your fellow country men and women then why is taxes to fund socially beneficial programs seen as unfair or irresponsible but when corporations or military gets billions and mismanage their finances not a single complaint? Last point enforcing the authority of Jesus Christ is laughable in its own. If Jesus is God then why does he need you as a sinner to speak for him. Last I checked if Christianity is truly a personal relationship with God God will reveal himself to them. I mean if u truly believe God is all powerful like the fact u can’t even see the irony in that statement in itself is wild
@@Lightlinefisherman It doesn’t sound like you are truly informed on either the idea of Christian Nationalism or what having a relationship with Jesus looks like. I take it from your last paragraph you also don’t have an understanding of the Biblical God… No condemnation here-I was there too, just lots of basic fallacies in your comment that would be cleared up with some reading.
@@Lightlinefisherman Have you read the Bible? The New Testament specifically? Have you read any “real” literature on Christian Nationalism? Not crackpot ideologues, but true believers.
Thank you so much! I’m your friendly American atheist. I’m the person that keeps her mouth shut to try to get along with my neighbors. I am American too. My parents and grandparents fought against fascism and communism. I value democracy too. I very much appreciated this video. I wish I saw more Christians who believed this way. Thank you for bringing up social media. It’s unfortunate that some people believe almost anything. I like that you gave some useful advice. Thank you.
Jayne, thank you so much for responding to my talk. Thank you also for seeking to be respectful to those who disagree with you (and vice versa). America needs a lot more of that right now. I have several friends who are atheists or agnostics. I respect their viewpoints, but of course I wish they could find a reason to believe in God. Speaking of ... I have 9 brief talks on UA-cam for those who don't believe in God, but are willing to re-consider. The talks are 5-7 minutes long and are entitled "Really Big Questions." I address issues such as why does suffering occur, why believe the Bible, why are Christians hypocritical, etc. I don't appeal to the Bible, assuming that those who watch don't believe it is trustworthy. Instead I appeal to reason. If it sounds interesting, I hope you'll watch one or two and let me know what you think. My best, Paul
I’m an atheist who also thanks you for your honesty. I use to be silent but now proudly say I’m an atheist when I’m asked or if the subject comes up. As a senior I’ve just met too many immoral Christians and too many moral humanists to buy in.
Fair enough, but odd that you would use the word “moral” and give weight to it as a persuasive power. Without God what makes morality moral anyway? Being persuaded by a subjective idea may be. Good enough for you, but the very idea of some kind of objective morality im would indicate some grounding or concrete idea of the concept of good and evil. Without God , I don’t see how good or evil objectively exists . So to accept that morality exists as an objectively reality involving good and evil proves GOD . If it’s subjective , we’ll then who cares it’s just a matter of opinion
Jayne: I am also a friendly American atheist. I agree with you on everything you said. As far as social media, my opinion is that if the cellphone had never been invented, we would not have all of this vitriol and hatred today. I think what most Christians do not understand is that we were once believers, but reason, logic, facts, and evidence led us to obtain better critical thinking skills and, therefore, reject the claims of the supernatural. ☮
“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition. ~George Washington
Paul! Thank you for this. More churches should do this and speak out against Christian Nationalism. I will be honest. The WORST thing for the Christian message has been the rise of Christian nationalism. It is one of the things that made me start questioning my faith and eventually losing it. Again thank you for this and it is great to see more and more church leaders speaking out about the fallacy of Christian Nationalism.
🤔 so are you arguing that an entity/corporation cannot be a Christian, and only individuals? Ok , but an organization can build upon the precepts of Christ or Christianity as they understand it and can be called a “Christian organization” just as much as Saudi Arabia can be considered a “Muslim” nation. It’s splitting hairs. This national founders understood that inalienable rights must have ontological grounding beyond the epistemic limitations of state or human assertion , that grounding was declared to be endowed by our “Creator”. To suggest that the founders believed this creator to allah , Buddha or harryKrishna would be laughable. Whether someone believes in Christ or not , I cannot imagine Christian nationalists disregarding the rights of others when the rights of the atheist , Jew, or otherwise have rights grounded and given by God .
Irish man here, so no dog in this fight but when a man makes a historical argument and tries to back it up with “I’ve got an advanced degree IN THE AREA of history”…be suspicious and when he doesn’t respond to logical critiques of his position (see comments) be even more suspicious.
@@valeriebreathet741 I am aware of that, but I am specifically referring to modern nation-states. As far as I know, the Confederacy did not have as strong of a unifying national identity as nations generally do. The word "nation", like the word "country", is used in multiple ways. For example, I am from India, and some older literature (from the colonial period) uses the word nations to describe what we would regard as ethnicities today. Even if the definition would apply, I believe that the nations weren't exactly precursors of the United States, which has a fairly distinctive identity that is shaped by a particular territory and constitutional values.
@@MrPeaceGuy54 There are times that individual American states act as if they were independent nations! Some are hard to distinguish from “third world banana republics!” The American Revolution destroyed the Confederacy of the Six Nations - with different Nations being divided by the border between the new United States and British North America! I found a recent article in “Canada’s History” magazine on explorer Alexander Mackenzie being the first European to cross North America overland from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific! Obviously, he did not travel solo! The author gave a great deal of background information on the aboriginal peoples and their networks of well established trade routes!
@@valeriebreathet741 Thank you for the fascinating comment. Identities are indeed malleable, even if there is an underlying permanence. Our perspectives should therefore be nuanced.
It’s actually a mix of both stories really. This nation was undeniably founded by both Christians and some who where on the fringes of fundamental Christian beliefs (but still viewed Christian morality in high regard) BUT none the less founded country on Christian principles. Just because some didn’t claim Christianity (overwhelmingly most did) doesn’t mean we were founded on principles that are divorced from biblical foundations. They established our government so we didn’t have a particular denomination on purpose as the head of government in order to avoid another catholic church style situation in England. This allowed for denominations and religious liberties to thrive (even non Christian religions). It boils down to this.. government makes laws - do we want a government founded on morality found in scripture? Or a morality found in …something… else? It’s not about turning all of the US Christian and rewarding only Christian’s but returning foundations of government to Christian principles so religious liberties can thrive. The countries with the most freedoms today were founded on Christian beliefs. It’s a no brainer.
Gary DeMar, America's Christian Founding. Or, Stephen Wolfe's The Case for Christian Nationalism- please let me know if you've interacted with these elsewhere.
Thank you for this video. You give me hope for Christianity. I'm a strong Spiritual Christian Mystic, and it's my full unabashed Truth. I wish more authoritarian Evangelicals believed like you. It's infecting our great nation. Blessings.
Nonsense: Christian Nationalism can simply be a lover of Christ and country IN THAT ORDER. His position is puerile and he knows it which is why he’s leveraging is ‘degrees’ to bolster it. A sufficient number of individual Christians can make a Christian nation,just as Jesus Christ’s famous last words. Matthew 28 19-20.
The founders did not make American laws with the purpose of enforcing their own beliefs on the country. Therefore, it is irrelevant what religion they were. America is NOT a Christian nation. The 10 Commandments and The Constitution are drastically contradicting documents. 1st Amendment of the Constitution: There will be freedom of speech. 10 Commandments: Thall shall not speak the Lord's name in vain. Constitution: There will be freedom of religion. 10 Commandments: Thall shall not worship any god before me. Constitution: Freedom of expression 10 Commandments: Thall shall make no graven images. Constitution: All people are EQUAL. There shall be no slaves. 10 Commandments: Thall shall not covet your neighbor's slaves. Constitution: No such labor laws. 10 Commandments: You may not work on the Sabbath. Constitution: Everyone is entitled to a trial. No thought crimes. 10 Commandments: Simply desiring your neighbor's possessions (like his wife - a possession) is a crime. Or his other slaves or possessions.
So two questions for you as you ask people not to pass on information that has not been verified. How did you come to know about Christianity? how exactly did you verify Christianity?
Can you be a fundamentalist without being Christian Nationalist? In all sincerity, I'm asking as a Progressive Democrat, and this isn't the first time this question has occurred to me, because of my former experience playing in the music ministry of the Charismatic Group in the Catholic Church. So, was I a Christian Nationalist (in today's terms) or a Fundamentalist (by membership, at least?
If I’m paying attention to vocal, progressive representatives, if you believe that, your rights are bestowed upon you by God instead of the state, then you are indeed a Christian nationalist if you live in America in this constitutional republic
I vote for progressive adminstrations because I believe in their political goals. If I'm a Christian Nationalist, then I'm not a very faithful one.@@jennyturner3174
Ben Franklin wasn't a deist, because deists don't believe that God is involved in human affairs, and Franklin said "The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men.” The same could be said about George Washington. Deists also reject all scripture and divine inspiration, which means that Thomas Jefferson wasn't a deist. The only founding father who could truly be called a deist was Thomas Paine. When people say that America is a Christian nation, they're not saying that the nation is an entity that identifies itself as a Christian. They're saying that our heritage is based on Christian values, and that our Constitution was influenced by Scripture, and that the vast majority of our populace has historically identified as Christians. The same would be the case if you referred to Iran as a Muslim nation, despite the fact that there are many Christians in Iran. You could also refer to Italy as a Catholic nation, or pre-war Korea as a Buddhist nation. So yes, America is a Christian nation. That has been changing over the past half century, and may no longer be the case by the end of this century, but for now most Americans identify as Christians, Christmas and Easter are national holidays, and the bible is a bestseller because we are a Christian nation.
Christian Nationalism is a natural result of the Great Commission: Christ is King and reigns right now. Christ is the greatest nationalist that ever walked the earth. Re-read His final statement in Matthew. It is now. All nations will be Christian. All leaders must bend the knee. There is no other right perspective.
Let me preface my comment by stating that I am a relatively "novice" Christian... I have only been attending church as an adult for the past two years, and there is a lot I still need to learn about scripture. One of our pastors recently gave a sermon warning about nationalism and idolatry, that it is basically a zero-sum game in terms of honoring Christ versus loving one's country, for example. And that got me thinking, it is really a zero-sum game? Can we not fully honor Christ while still honoring our mother and father, and by extension our family, our community, and our nation? Did the Great Commission not command Christians to literally disciple the nations of the world? Some would argue that nations themselves can't be "Christian nations" since they don't have immortal souls and cannot be Christian... if that is true, why did Jesus tell us to do it? Pastor Doug Wilson makes a compelling argument along these lines. I am aware of the criticisms of the man that are floating around the Internet, but focusing simply on theology and ignoring that stuff, I'd be curious to hear a rebuttal to his theological argument on the matter, which seems very well reasoned. Thank you. ua-cam.com/video/z3xnRKs3CHY/v-deo.html
Chris, great point. I agree that "either/or" thinking is not helpful for complex topics. In Luke 20:20-26, Jesus called out his enemies for offering him an "either/or" question when the topic was far too important to limit to a simple Yes or No. Keep up the good work, Paul
I'm just a high school graduate and I love history.I took 4 years out of my life to study all the american presidents from Washington to Eisenhower. I love my Lord and savior Jesus and wanted America to be a christen nation, but I came to the same conclusion as you. Thanks for agreeing with me...lol a lot of my friends didn't. Thanks again Grace and Peace to you.
I have been a Christian for many years and am exploring the meaning of Christian nationalism. It was mentioned that a county cannot be Christian, only people can be Christians. Question: Is Israel a Jewish state? Is Sadie Arabia a Muslim county? Is China a Communist county? Etc.
The work of the Gospel is to make peace between men and God, and wherever a heart surrenders to God the spirit of militarism and *nationalism* must go. {November 26, *1896* -- PTUK}
@@paulbasden8431 It was a Christian publication out of the UK. Also, plenty of Biblical evidence. Regarding militarism: We are called to be a witness (martyr). The Greek word for witness is martyrion. This is hardly known or respected. Also, Romans 12:9-21 is clear regarding our relationship to mankind. Love is harmless (Romans 13:10). On nationalism: Sadly, Israel failed to go to all nations and spread the gospel. They thought God was only about the nation of Israel, but Jesus showed them He was the Savior of the WORLD. We are told that we’re “strangers and pilgrims on earth” (Hebrews 11:13-16), and we are to have the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:5). Therefore our “kingdom is not of this world” and we are not to fight except to exercise the fight of faith (John 18:36; 1 Timothy 6:12). Blessings
It is true that we weren’t founded as a Christian nation, but I believe every elected official who claims to be a Christian has a moral obligation before God to carry out his word.
As well as non-Christians, because they are made in the image of God, and they are accountable to God as well. You’re not allowed to be an oppressor and deny peoples rights if you claim to be a non-Christian. You can’t get away with it because you claim not to be a Christian.
I’m listening to various UA-cam videos on Christian Nationalism and was bracing for some propaganda. Thank you for not spreading disinformation and encouraging others to question/verify what they post.
I do have a deep sadness with how the indigenous people here were treated by many of our ancestors, and I know not all our ancestors were intentionally terrible , but nobody can deny that the indigenous peoples were largely treated terribly. Unfortunately some are still are treated terribly. I think we all have a responsibility to do our part to make sure we treat ALL people with dignity and respect. Period.
They treated one another horrendously. Before anyone got here, they are covered at one another’s land. They all had borders, and they didn’t warn you if you crossed into their border, they killed you. They didn’t build any schools or churches are hospitals, why feel sorry for them?
George, in my opinion, the union of religion and state in Islamic countries is far more absolute than the vision of Christian Nationalism in America, where separation of church and state is still being practiced.
So does this mean that the Christianity of early America, and since that time, had no influence on our country's morality, politics, polices, cultural issues, etc.? I honestly think if there hadn't been so much of Christianity's influences, our country would not have had all the freedoms it has enjoyed. Freedom is a CHRISTIAN ideal - our laws are based on Christian principles. Without that we would literally have so much more atheism, humanism, secularism, and all that comes from those false worldviews than we already do. Certainly we have come a long way from what we once were in terms of morality and freedoms once enjoyed, but Christ is still KING and He REIGNS now over all the earth. We need another GREAT AWAKENING like we had in our past. The widespread preaching of the gospel is so needed now more than ever.
Hey, there, really glad to see more churches speaking out about this issue. I do think it's important to mention some of the more insidious aspects of Christian Nationalism such as racism and sexism. Still, lots of really salient points here. Thanks and God bless.
I appreciate your response. It reminds me of two things that are important. First, every "ism" is idolatry, i.e., we worship something other than God (e.g., secularism, liberalism, materialism, etc.). Second, idolatry always leads to dehumanizing others (read any of the Prophets in the Old Testament). Worshiping the Canaanite god Baal always led to injustice and violence. So, it's no surprise that as an "ism," Christian Nationalism can lead to racism and sexism.
@@fivebrosstopmos You are right that "ism" points to "belief in." What I'm saying is that every "ism" I know of goes beyond simple belief to a deep belief that leads to worship, meaning dedicating one's life to that entity. For example, Communism leads to worship of state-controlled economics; capitalism leads to worship of the free market; ditto for Marxism, humanism, Darwinism, etc. And by "worship," I mean building your life around something and finding ultimate meaning in it. Therefore, "nationalism" means building one's life around one's nation and finding ultimate meaning in it. Nationalism has happened throughout world history in countries on every continent. Since Jesus said, "Seek first God's Kingdom and his righteousness" (Matthew 6:33), I believe nationalism is dangerous and sinful, and must be avoided. We can love our country, but if we are Jesus-followers, we may not worship it ... or anything/anyone other than Jesus. Hope that makes sense. Thanks for commenting.
@@paulbasden8431 That's the way some isms go, in absence of a higher belief, but that is not the way they are required to go. Jesus says seek ye first, which means we may have something second, such as nationalism, especially when we are a prophesied nation.
Great overview of the facts of American religious history. It should be re-released now, in time for the 2024 election system. Christian nationalist should also read 1 Sammuel Chapter 8.
I agree that a nation nor a business cannot be Christian and the push to make it so today comes out of fear and the desire to protect against the “anything goes” destructive immorality that’s gotten out of hand in our society.
Businesses are not the arm of the government unless owned by the government thus business can turn such places into living breathing profit making churches or a giant toilet seat.
I am a born-again Christian. Not bragging by any stretch. That is just me. This guy is right on target. My home in Heaven is not assured by my citizenship. Pilgrims came here for religious freedom. The separation of Church and State is important. For example, my heart is all for a Christian coach reading Scripture before a football game to his players. But...my blood would boil for a Muslim coach to read from the Koran. You get my point. I don't want teachers praying with my kids, but they better not keep my kids from praying over their noon meal. Mr. Basden is a smart dude. True story...in 1988 while providing security as a young Army NCO in the Honduras, my Food Service SGT came dragging a Catholic priest to me complaining about the priest stealing the garbage. The issue was the regulations state that trashed food remnants must not be consumed. The priest was taking our garbage 3 kilometers to his starving village. The priest left with my blessings to take all of our garbage, with some sacks of potatoes that were more than we could use, every day. Yes, I violated Amy Regulations. I think the priest was a true servant of God, even though I was a devout Baptist.
I have to respectfully disagree. Not only is what he said historically untrue but to think that God didn’t want to use this country to spread His name good works just unbelievable. Not only was the this continent founded by Christians, settled by Christians, governed by Christian for centuries. We’re all the founding fathers Christian, by all means no. But a majority of them were, so were the settlers who were puritan, and the constitution based on biblical principals. John Adams stated: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” How can you think this government was meant to be secular? Do you think this quote applied to Islam, no. How about Hinduism, no. It applied to Christianity, hence our Ten Commandments was displayed in law courts, churches were the centers of the communities, etc. If you believe Christian is the truth why wouldn’t you want country that embraces that true or at dictates itself on those principals. Look at your comment section, most of the people applauding are the atheist (no offense to them).
Shawn, thank you for speaking up. In eight minutes, I couldn't say ALL that I believe on this subject. To one of your points, I agree that the goal of the founding fathers was not a secular government. You are using the two options of secular and religious. I was using the two options of religious and specifically Christian. Since the vast majority of our early settlers in the colonies came from England, they were religious. England had a state church, as well as many non-conformist churches like Congregational, Baptist, and Presbyterian. And no doubt many who came to the New World were deeply dedicated Christians who loved God fervently. But I don't think America's founding documents, whether the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, reflect a consensus that America should be a nation "legally" committed to the Christian faith. In fact, there were intentional attempts to keep church and state from intermingling too much.
So in your view, it's okay to BELIEVE in Christ so long as I leave that belief in the sock drawer when I go vote? I'm not sure if you simply misunderstand us, or if you are intentionally mischaracterizing us. It really sounds from out here in the cheap seats like you believe we should simply surrender the culture war.
"A nation cannot be Christian." But, it CAN be founded on Biblical principles. Thomas Jefferson is the one who wrote "endowed by our Creator." He capitalized the word "Creator" on purpose. Let's follow that logically..... Oh, I guess that makes most of the founders CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS.
..... Thomas Jefferson wasn't even Christian. He was a deist, as were many of the others. That's when you believe there is a god, but reject organized religion. In fact, Thomas Jefferson is extremely famous for his rejection of Christianity. He believed that Jesus was a mortal man to the point that he edited the Bible to remove all of the miracles, the supernatural, and Jesus's divinity. That's right, America was founded on Heresy. Bet they didn't teach you that one in school.
The proper duty of government is irrelevant to how such a government was founded. If you are confused that the purpose of the State should be to promote the role of the Church in a proper Church-State relationship, then you should probably read St. Justinian.
So my take in things is the pilgrims did want to start a Christian nation. This was far before 1776. That background training in Holland and the Mayflower contract and more. So perhaps the uniqueness and exceptionslism of America is where I land in this. That Christian principles are required for a successful nation. And that God will bless a nation that follows him. This video may explain a bit where I stand. ua-cam.com/video/1p-CnfnsxK8/v-deo.html
Well, THAT wasn't what I expected! I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation, Sir. It wasn't hazy or maybe. It was verifiable. I'm not a Christian: it's a choice I've made. But it's disappointing to realize, from acquaintances, that so many Christians don't understand the New Testament is about the spiritual, not the corporeal.
They all seem to have forgotten that Jesus teaches us to hate the sin and love the sinner. If you hate the sinner they will never see the love of God. But that doesn't fit with their narrative, you can't love people and be a bully at the same time. For some reason that just doesn't work.
Thank God. I'm not a theist, but I appreciate you speaking the truth. I'm terrified at the theocratic arm of the Right, and I'm hoping more moderate Christians speak up! I have a whole family of Christians who are pro-choice. Maybe you can talk about the history of abortion - how the clergy played a big role in opening up the first legal abortion clinic in New York! Really interesting how religious leaders helped women get abortions back in the day - they focused on showing compassion to women in troubling circumstances.
How about being a Christianized people? The Pilgrims as well as the Puritans had a profound impact upon the Colonization of the country. Your point is well made but it falls short because of the influence of Christianity in early America. Christian denominations came and flourished with their Protestant work ethic. What we have now is secularism, it’s getting hard for businesses to find help. We were a Christianized people, we are no more
by your no Christian school logic, there would be no Christian families either. Sorry, nations have a duty to submit to Christ. You see God addressing nations over and over in Scripture. He speaks to them as people that can repent as if a person and that they have Christian duties just like the individual.
Quite true. America was not founded as a Christian nation. But neither was it founded as a nation neutral towards religion…and most certainly not as a secular nation. It was founded as a theistic nation. Or basically, as we would describe it today, a Judeo-Christian nation. So, of your two tales, the former is indeed mythological, but the latter is outright historical revisionism. Our founding was far closer to aligning with Christian Nationalism than Secular Nationalism. It’s just a fact.
If founded as a Christian nation (ie. Tribalism) - then why did they treat the Native Americans so poorly? Why wouldn't those founders have wanted to treat them with love and compassion under Christ? I cannot see a nation (ie. physical land-mass tribal construct claiming natural resources for themselves) try to base laws on religion at all. I just don't get the aspects of how Christian and Jewish are all based on land (controllable resources) when isn't the glory to be found in Heaven based on how we treat each other here? Currently "Christian" Nationalists (ie. simply Nationalists) want to put up walls, lock people out and take away rights and base it on writings of sometimes one man who was inspired to write 2000 or less years ago. If Jesus didn't say it - I sometimes don't want to hear it. I am wondering where Jesus said "put up walls, own the land, keep others out and use armed services to ensure tribal success and be sure to tax everyone as much as possible to pay for it all (and don't forget to give 10% to your church as well)."
@@johnmcvicker6728. Your reply, while outwardly appealing, seems unnecessarily naive. Every single country (and semi-autonomous territory) on the face of the earth either has a standing army or is protected by a colonial power or military alliance (like NATO). Everyone has borders, many of them with fences or walls. Pretty much everyone keeps certain people out and prioritizes its own citizens. This is how the world is run. And it is how it has always run.
@@johnmcvicker6728. And my guess is that you are a Christian “Familiyist.” And by that I mean that you have a fence around your house (or a lock on your door). Certain people are let in and others are kept out. If this is not so, publish your address, and my family and I will come squat in your house. But don’t worry, we will thank you profusely for your marvelous personal model of Christian charity!
@@hanssvineklev648 It's great if we like tribalism and that helps us keep economy growing (defending and supporting nationalism times 160 countries). Will this planet ever evolve into a one-tribe world?
@@johnmcvicker6728. My goodness! Would you want it to?? Such a scenario scares me more-much more-than some goofy, redneck white supremacists taking over our country. There would be literally nowhere to flee. A One World government is going to have a particular worldview in order to be stable. And woe to them who think differently! I’m not sure I can think up anything worse than such an eventuality.
It has bugged me for a while just how attached Christians in America are to the idea of America being a Christian nation. When I was younger I was still thinking through the programming that had been put into me from my younger years. I have concluded that most American "Christians" who want to force Christianity on others are not actually followers of Christ. If they were, they would have taken Him saying that His kingdom is not of this world more seriously. Jesus never wanted to force people to become Christians, or to enforce His will onto others. He wants people to choose Him willingly. He wants people to follow His example, being salt and light in the world. Because that is how we become lights that reflect Christ, guiding people toward Him. Forcing our beliefs onto others through legislation and force has done more damage to the world's view of us as a whole than anything the Devil could do alone. Quite frankly, I think that many of the "Christians" that are pushing Christian nationalism are working for the Devil. Much alike those who started the crusades and tried to "convert" the natives of many lands. It isn't a new concept, it is just as destructive and horrific a thought process as ever. I am glad that there are more Christians recognizing the danger that Christian Nationalism poses. We should all be aware and wary. We can't let this thought process proliferate. It must be fought, or we face horrors that could equal or surpass those of the past.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding misunderstanding of Christian Nationalism. Christian Nationalists do not want to force-convert nonbelievers, but we do want to enforce basic Biblical morality onto them, and squash evil pagan religion.
I disagree. As Christians, we are to preach the gospel. God has his people in every nation, not just America! Why do you think churches send missionaries all over the world? Go into ALL the nations, Jesus said. Something to think about!
Jesus said that Christians should teach and make disciples of all nations.
Jesus was a Power mad freak that got nailed to the cross for treason. Jesus followers most likely got him dead from walking over that line in the dirt. Rome was a evil, greedy, sadistic corrupted empire. the only reason Jesus survived is for connections to the ruling class, gold or being roman. Very hard to become a citizen without being roman, rich or connected to influenceable nations that was the case of Arminius that was of the line of jarls who was giving as hostage to Rome. A gifted leader of men who tricked the romans army into a planned ambush that made driving Rome out of the Germanic lands, almost bloodless on the part of the Germanics. Herman the German. Who was assassinated once his use was over by the Germanic kings, who do not share power or Herman just become to corrupted by the romans to be allowed to live and the reason many Germanics were converted later nor earlier. the Romaan empire had no power over the Germanics. The roman Christian emperor had the power to force romans and its conquered nations to convert. Christianity is in a sense the roman empire.
Thank you, Pastor. I found your video and realized that your church is only 15 minutes from me. I will be joining you for Easter.
"A nation cannot be Christian. Only persons can be Christians." A accurate, yet profound statement thats is sadly lost on most ears these days.
America and most of Europe did it for hundreds of years.
That is theologically and historically false.
If what you say is true...there could only be individual no Christian families, or communities.
If Jesus Christ is Lord. Then is good and necessary to pass laws in accordance with this end.
@@felixguerrero6062 It is not historically false. Nations are on a much bigger scale then small communities. And operate differently. Lots of people, lots of different POVs lots of thoughts (even if many of sheepified minds).
@@Windrake101 The principles is true irrespective of scale.
@@felixguerrero6062 “there has never been a literal Christian nation in this world. The only Christian nation is the gathered communities of Christian believers all over this world” Alexander Campbell American reformer.
It is so refreshing to hear someone speaking the truth about American history. Our country is not and never has been a Christian nation even if the majority is Christian. You are indeed right, a country can not be Christian but people can. The Puritans and the Pilgrims wanted to create a theocracy but they were not among the Founding Fathers. Neither were the Native Americans, the Spaniards in the Southwest, the French in Louisiana, nor the Russians in Alaska. The Founding Fathers founded our nation with no state religion or an establishment of religion of any kind. It is scary to hear people proclaim that we were always a Christian nation because the Founders were devout Christians who founded America on the Bible. It is scary because it is not true but apparently millions think it is true and they feel persecuted that they can not force their version of Christianity on the rest of us. Thank you from a lifelong student of history.
the christians that came to this land, didn't want religion in politics. That's why this country built on
From kenya🇰🇪.... America needs to get back to its roots,the church needs to be vigilant and stand up
And I trust you can't forget how we also dragged the church through the filth of politics in 2022 campaigns.
You can also find proof of this simply by looking at the reasons why some of the early settlers came to the United States and the governments that existed in Europe at that time. Some of the first settlers that came to America were coming here due to religious persecution, simply put their version of Christianity wasn't the predominant version that controlled the government. So why would anyone think that they would be okay with the government of their new land following that same path? On top of that the English King that our Founding Fathers were fighting had his position due to the belief of divine right, it was literally the case that he was King because God chose him to be King. And the church was so powerful that they could literally take a person's land simply by excommunicating them. They would never set up a government where any one religion had that much influence or control over the new government.
The sad thing is all we have to do is look at Iran and see what happens when a specific religion gains too much power in a secular government. And now these Christian Nationalists want to do the same thing with the United States, just with a different religion.
Thank you so so much. Your video brought me to tears. Part of the reason I left the church was due to what I now understand as Christian Nationalism. I don't understand all the hatred and demonization of anyone who isn't exactly the same, and I am heartbroken.
I agree that the attitudes many Christian groups have towards anyone not like them is a major turn off. However, Christian Nationalism is another discussion entirely.
You are welcome. I hope you can return to a church and find one that's full of grace and truth. "Both/and" ...
I'm an agnostic Buddhist but i grew up in the Baptist church. You make me want to visit a church like yours and listen again.
I'm honored! If you do, I hope you find what you're looking for ...
Figures an atheist
Christian nationalism does not sound like a good thing for me no matter how lovely this guy was
He’s not advocating for Christian Nationalism. This video was a critique of it.
I am a strong atheist. and I was happy to share this video.
That's not a good thing.
If the infidels are spreading your message, you probably got something wrong.
As a devout Christian I really appreciate this vid..great job! I honestly think far too many American Christians have replaced the Gospel with politics, & it pains me to see so-called Christian leaders promoting politics, it dilutes the Gospel!
Thank you for your reply. There's no doubt that politics is with us to stay, and we have to learn as Christ-followers how to be good citizens and good patriots, while still seeking first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.
@@paulbasden8431 Amen!
They have taken Jesus right out of their beliefs and have replaced Jesus with themselves and their insatiable hunger for power. Christian Nationalism is so anti-Christ its not even funny. Any Christian who believes that they deserve a privileged position in the public space by virtue of being a Christian is following something, but it's not Jesus. Christian Nationalism fear and despise Sharia Law for example, yet seem to have absolutely no problem pushing Christian dogma into Government. I mean, what's it gonna be? You can't have it both ways. In my opinion, the greatest threat to the US right now is the rise in Christian extremism.
The Gospel is the message of Christ kingdom. Everywhere Paul went riots broke out. You cannot separate politics from morality.
@@zZavies wasn’t there somebody that said something about give to Caesar what is Caesar’s? At least to that person religious piety and political participation seemed to be separable.
If the suggestion though is that a particular religious morality should be enforced via political power, how do we go about deciding what that looks like exactly? Should we go with Catholicism since this is the largest sect of Christians, and force you and your family to go to mass every Sunday by threat of prosecution? Or should we dissolve the military wholesale and outlaw self-defense in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount teaching that we are not to resist evil with violence?
I rarely comment on anything, but just stumbled across this video and really appreciate it!
Thanks Paul! This is great, wish You could be heard on every Christian radio station in America, and in every evangelical church!
Thanks for that encouragement!
Christian Nationalism feels like believers rendering unto Caesar that which belongs to God.
I can’t rationally call America or Canada Christian nations knowing full well other peoples were here first. It spits in the faces of all First Nations and Native American peoples.
By this logic he can't even call the church Christian.
Also, he uses heuristics all the time. It's impossible to get through life without them, so his challenge at the end isn't truly a fair one.
The point is a church is a construct. You can't baptize a church. It cannot learn, confess, or reason. It's an idea.
The people inside that church is what makes it christian. A person can be Christian, a church is a concept/name, based on what this PEOPLE believe.
Are there not many non-believers who attend church? Yes. There are. So, no, a building can't be Christian. Lol
If laws benefit Christians, then laws will benefit everyone else!
There’s a third story, Pastor Paul. A community of Christians who aren’t ashamed of their nationality (ethnos), who love their country and their countrymen, and who seek to vote and act for the health and well-being of their own people, and who desire to see their own nation, along with all nations, recognize the Authority and Love of Christ in all things, for the good of all people.
What should we call that?
You should check this video out… it counters his points perfectly. More like fills in the holes in his logic.
ua-cam.com/video/7dN5KQGEuI8/v-deo.html
Stop conflating with constructive criticism of america and calling out the racism and intolerance with being ashamed of America. There’s always been that in American history lol.
When u say you love your fellow country men and women then why is taxes to fund socially beneficial programs seen as unfair or irresponsible but when corporations or military gets billions and mismanage their finances not a single complaint?
Last point enforcing the authority of Jesus Christ is laughable in its own. If Jesus is God then why does he need you as a sinner to speak for him. Last I checked if Christianity is truly a personal relationship with God God will reveal himself to them. I mean if u truly believe God is all powerful like the fact u can’t even see the irony in that statement in itself is wild
@@Lightlinefisherman It doesn’t sound like you are truly informed on either the idea of Christian Nationalism or what having a relationship with Jesus looks like. I take it from your last paragraph you also don’t have an understanding of the Biblical God… No condemnation here-I was there too, just lots of basic fallacies in your comment that would be cleared up with some reading.
@@atschram fallacies? what am i missing here? please explain.
@@Lightlinefisherman Have you read the Bible? The New Testament specifically?
Have you read any “real” literature on Christian Nationalism? Not crackpot ideologues, but true believers.
Thank you so much! I’m your friendly American atheist. I’m the person that keeps her mouth shut to try to get along with my neighbors. I am American too. My parents and grandparents fought against fascism and communism. I value democracy too.
I very much appreciated this video. I wish I saw more Christians who believed this way.
Thank you for bringing up social media. It’s unfortunate that some people believe almost anything. I like that you gave some useful advice.
Thank you.
Jayne, thank you so much for responding to my talk. Thank you also for seeking to be respectful to those who disagree with you (and vice versa). America needs a lot more of that right now. I have several friends who are atheists or agnostics. I respect their viewpoints, but of course I wish they could find a reason to believe in God. Speaking of ... I have 9 brief talks on UA-cam for those who don't believe in God, but are willing to re-consider. The talks are 5-7 minutes long and are entitled "Really Big Questions." I address issues such as why does suffering occur, why believe the Bible, why are Christians hypocritical, etc. I don't appeal to the Bible, assuming that those who watch don't believe it is trustworthy. Instead I appeal to reason. If it sounds interesting, I hope you'll watch one or two and let me know what you think. My best, Paul
I’m an atheist who also thanks you for your honesty. I use to be silent but now proudly say I’m an atheist when I’m asked or if the subject comes up. As a senior I’ve just met too many immoral Christians and too many moral humanists to buy in.
Fair enough, but odd that you would use the word “moral” and give weight to it as a persuasive power. Without God what makes morality moral anyway? Being persuaded by a subjective idea may be. Good enough for you, but the very idea of some kind of objective morality im would indicate some grounding or concrete idea of the concept of good and evil. Without God , I don’t see how good or evil objectively exists . So to accept that morality exists as an objectively reality involving good and evil proves GOD . If it’s subjective , we’ll then who cares it’s just a matter of opinion
Jayne: I am also a friendly American atheist. I agree with you on everything you said. As far as social media, my opinion is that if the cellphone had never been invented, we would not have all of this vitriol and hatred today. I think what most Christians do not understand is that we were once believers, but reason, logic, facts, and evidence led us to obtain better critical thinking skills and, therefore, reject the claims of the supernatural. ☮
Democracy is evil
It must be tough telling the truth while living in a hot bed of Christian Nationalism like Dallas, TX. Keep up the good work.
FULL AUDIO: "The Statement on Christian Nationalism & the Gospel" ua-cam.com/video/AurH6DAgNTo/v-deo.html
Thank you for evidencing what Christianity is about.You are a blessing.
“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition.
~George Washington
Excellent. I have independently verified the points you are making and I will share this video. Thank you.
Paul! Thank you for this. More churches should do this and speak out against Christian Nationalism. I will be honest. The WORST thing for the Christian message has been the rise of Christian nationalism. It is one of the things that made me start questioning my faith and eventually losing it. Again thank you for this and it is great to see more and more church leaders speaking out about the fallacy of Christian Nationalism.
We’ll done sir!
🤔 so are you arguing that an entity/corporation cannot be a Christian, and only individuals? Ok , but an organization can build upon the precepts of Christ or Christianity as they understand it and can be called a “Christian organization” just as much as Saudi Arabia can be considered a “Muslim” nation. It’s splitting hairs.
This national founders understood that inalienable rights must have ontological grounding beyond the epistemic limitations of state or human assertion , that grounding was declared to be endowed by our “Creator”. To suggest that the founders believed this creator to allah , Buddha or harryKrishna would be laughable.
Whether someone believes in Christ or not , I cannot imagine Christian nationalists disregarding the rights of others when the rights of the atheist , Jew, or otherwise have rights grounded and given by God .
You are 100% correct. Thank you for speaking the truth--in love.
I need this and I thank you so much!!! I know what I needed to know now! God bless you!
So glad!
I really appreciate this perspective, thank you!
Irish man here, so no dog in this fight but when a man makes a historical argument and tries to back it up with “I’ve got an advanced degree IN THE AREA of history”…be
suspicious and when he doesn’t respond to logical critiques of his position (see comments) be even more suspicious.
Excellent!! Thank you so much!!
I'm glad you liked it ...
Politics is not a substitute for the gospel. What do you think of psalm 72:17 where nations will bless and be blessed by Jesus the Messiah
What about the Red Indian's religion Don't u think they were the actual founder of US
There's a difference between a civilisation and a nation.
@@MrPeaceGuy54
Have you ever studied the Confederacy of Six Nations?
@@valeriebreathet741 I am aware of that, but I am specifically referring to modern nation-states. As far as I know, the Confederacy did not have as strong of a unifying national identity as nations generally do. The word "nation", like the word "country", is used in multiple ways. For example, I am from India, and some older literature (from the colonial period) uses the word nations to describe what we would regard as ethnicities today.
Even if the definition would apply, I believe that the nations weren't exactly precursors of the United States, which has a fairly distinctive identity that is shaped by a particular territory and constitutional values.
@@MrPeaceGuy54
There are times that individual American states act as if they were independent nations! Some are hard to distinguish from “third world banana republics!” The American Revolution destroyed the Confederacy of the Six Nations - with different Nations being divided by the border between the new United States and British North America! I found a recent article in “Canada’s History” magazine on explorer Alexander Mackenzie being the first European to cross North America overland from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific! Obviously, he did not travel solo! The author gave a great deal of background information on the aboriginal peoples and their networks of well established trade routes!
@@valeriebreathet741 Thank you for the fascinating comment. Identities are indeed malleable, even if there is an underlying permanence. Our perspectives should therefore be nuanced.
It’s actually a mix of both stories really. This nation was undeniably founded by both Christians and some who where on the fringes of fundamental Christian beliefs (but still viewed Christian morality in high regard) BUT none the less founded country on Christian principles. Just because some didn’t claim Christianity (overwhelmingly most did) doesn’t mean we were founded on principles that are divorced from biblical foundations. They established our government so we didn’t have a particular denomination on purpose as the head of government in order to avoid another catholic church style situation in England. This allowed for denominations and religious liberties to thrive (even non Christian religions). It boils down to this.. government makes laws - do we want a government founded on morality found in scripture? Or a morality found in …something… else? It’s not about turning all of the US Christian and rewarding only Christian’s but returning foundations of government to Christian principles so religious liberties can thrive. The countries with the most freedoms today were founded on Christian beliefs. It’s a no brainer.
I wish this video could be shown in every church. Thank you for posting this. 🙏
you are welcome! Keep seeking ...
Gary DeMar, America's Christian Founding. Or, Stephen Wolfe's The Case for Christian Nationalism- please let me know if you've interacted with these elsewhere.
Thank you for this video. You give me hope for Christianity. I'm a strong Spiritual Christian Mystic, and it's my full unabashed Truth. I wish more authoritarian Evangelicals believed like you. It's infecting our great nation.
Blessings.
Thanks for the insight.
Nonsense: Christian Nationalism can simply be a lover of Christ and country IN THAT ORDER. His position is puerile and he knows it which is why he’s leveraging is ‘degrees’ to bolster it. A sufficient number of individual Christians can make a Christian nation,just as Jesus Christ’s famous last words. Matthew 28 19-20.
The founders did not make American laws with the purpose of enforcing their own beliefs on the country. Therefore, it is irrelevant what religion they were.
America is NOT a Christian nation.
The 10 Commandments and The Constitution are drastically contradicting documents.
1st Amendment of the Constitution: There will be freedom of speech.
10 Commandments: Thall shall not speak the Lord's name in vain.
Constitution: There will be freedom of religion.
10 Commandments: Thall shall not worship any god before me.
Constitution: Freedom of expression
10 Commandments: Thall shall make no graven images.
Constitution: All people are EQUAL. There shall be no slaves.
10 Commandments: Thall shall not covet your neighbor's slaves.
Constitution: No such labor laws.
10 Commandments: You may not work on the Sabbath.
Constitution: Everyone is entitled to a trial. No thought crimes.
10 Commandments: Simply desiring your neighbor's possessions (like his wife - a possession) is a crime. Or his other slaves or possessions.
So two questions for you as you ask people not to pass on information that has not been verified. How did you come to know about Christianity? how exactly did you verify Christianity?
💯💯💯✝️✝️✝️.... thank u for standing for Truth
Can you be a fundamentalist without being Christian Nationalist? In all sincerity, I'm asking as a Progressive Democrat, and this isn't the first time this question has occurred to me, because of my former experience playing in the music ministry of the Charismatic Group in the Catholic Church. So, was I a Christian Nationalist (in today's terms) or a Fundamentalist (by membership, at least?
If I’m paying attention to vocal, progressive representatives, if you believe that, your rights are bestowed upon you by God instead of the state, then you are indeed a Christian nationalist if you live in America in this constitutional republic
I vote for progressive adminstrations because I believe in their political goals. If I'm a Christian Nationalist, then I'm not a very faithful one.@@jennyturner3174
Ben Franklin wasn't a deist, because deists don't believe that God is involved in human affairs, and Franklin said "The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men.” The same could be said about George Washington. Deists also reject all scripture and divine inspiration, which means that Thomas Jefferson wasn't a deist. The only founding father who could truly be called a deist was Thomas Paine.
When people say that America is a Christian nation, they're not saying that the nation is an entity that identifies itself as a Christian. They're saying that our heritage is based on Christian values, and that our Constitution was influenced by Scripture, and that the vast majority of our populace has historically identified as Christians. The same would be the case if you referred to Iran as a Muslim nation, despite the fact that there are many Christians in Iran. You could also refer to Italy as a Catholic nation, or pre-war Korea as a Buddhist nation. So yes, America is a Christian nation. That has been changing over the past half century, and may no longer be the case by the end of this century, but for now most Americans identify as Christians, Christmas and Easter are national holidays, and the bible is a bestseller because we are a Christian nation.
Christian Nationalism is a natural result of the Great Commission: Christ is King and reigns right now. Christ is the greatest nationalist that ever walked the earth. Re-read His final statement in Matthew. It is now. All nations will be Christian. All leaders must bend the knee. There is no other right perspective.
Let me preface my comment by stating that I am a relatively "novice" Christian... I have only been attending church as an adult for the past two years, and there is a lot I still need to learn about scripture. One of our pastors recently gave a sermon warning about nationalism and idolatry, that it is basically a zero-sum game in terms of honoring Christ versus loving one's country, for example. And that got me thinking, it is really a zero-sum game? Can we not fully honor Christ while still honoring our mother and father, and by extension our family, our community, and our nation? Did the Great Commission not command Christians to literally disciple the nations of the world? Some would argue that nations themselves can't be "Christian nations" since they don't have immortal souls and cannot be Christian... if that is true, why did Jesus tell us to do it? Pastor Doug Wilson makes a compelling argument along these lines. I am aware of the criticisms of the man that are floating around the Internet, but focusing simply on theology and ignoring that stuff, I'd be curious to hear a rebuttal to his theological argument on the matter, which seems very well reasoned. Thank you.
ua-cam.com/video/z3xnRKs3CHY/v-deo.html
Chris, great point. I agree that "either/or" thinking is not helpful for complex topics. In Luke 20:20-26, Jesus called out his enemies for offering him an "either/or" question when the topic was far too important to limit to a simple Yes or No. Keep up the good work, Paul
I'm just a high school graduate and I love history.I took 4 years out of my life to study all the american presidents from Washington to Eisenhower. I love my Lord and savior Jesus and wanted America to be a christen nation, but I came to the same conclusion as you. Thanks for agreeing with me...lol a lot of my friends didn't. Thanks again Grace and Peace to you.
keep up the good work!
I have been a Christian for many years and am exploring the meaning of Christian nationalism. It was mentioned that a county cannot be Christian, only people can be Christians. Question: Is Israel a Jewish state? Is Sadie Arabia a Muslim county? Is China a Communist county? Etc.
I am amazed to find someone who actually understands the truth, that there is no such thing a Christian nation.
Look up the origins of thanksgiving. It is a day to give thanks to God for His kind care and protection.
The work of the Gospel is to make peace between men and God, and wherever a
heart surrenders to God the spirit of militarism and *nationalism* must go. {November 26, *1896* -- PTUK}
What book is this?
John, What is PTUK? Paul
@@paulbasden8431 It was a Christian publication out of the UK. Also, plenty of Biblical evidence. Regarding militarism: We are called to be a witness (martyr). The Greek word for witness is martyrion. This is hardly known or respected. Also, Romans 12:9-21 is clear regarding our relationship to mankind. Love is harmless (Romans 13:10). On nationalism: Sadly, Israel failed to go to all nations and spread the gospel. They thought God was only about the nation of Israel, but Jesus showed them He was the Savior of the WORLD. We are told that we’re “strangers and pilgrims on earth” (Hebrews 11:13-16), and we are to have the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:5). Therefore our “kingdom is not of this world” and we are not to fight except to exercise the fight of faith (John 18:36; 1 Timothy 6:12). Blessings
@@JohnJakeWilliam Back at you!
You sound like an Adventist....
Cool. You’re not all nuts. Good to know 👍🏼
It is true that we weren’t founded as a Christian nation, but I believe every elected official who claims to be a Christian has a moral obligation before God to carry out his word.
As well as non-Christians, because they are made in the image of God, and they are accountable to God as well. You’re not allowed to be an oppressor and deny peoples rights if you claim to be a non-Christian. You can’t get away with it because you claim not to be a Christian.
THANK YOU! Excellent summary
I’m listening to various UA-cam videos on Christian Nationalism and was bracing for some propaganda. Thank you for not spreading disinformation and encouraging others to question/verify what they post.
The US was not a Christian nation. It was a place of religious freedom for all.
I to am an atheist, and really appreciate this gentleman's comments.
I support christians who are rational decent and support including all regardless of beliefs.
Gooodness when you have to lie to cope
Thank you for this great video! Very informative.
Can nations be Islamic?
I do have a deep sadness with how the indigenous people here were treated by many of our ancestors, and I know not all our ancestors were intentionally terrible , but nobody can deny that the indigenous peoples were largely treated terribly. Unfortunately some are still are treated terribly. I think we all have a responsibility to do our part to make sure we treat ALL people with dignity and respect. Period.
They treated one another horrendously. Before anyone got here, they are covered at one another’s land. They all had borders, and they didn’t warn you if you crossed into their border, they killed you. They didn’t build any schools or churches are hospitals, why feel sorry for them?
Confused...what's so different about Christian nationalism and sharia law? Worshiping the correct God?
George, in my opinion, the union of religion and state in Islamic countries is far more absolute than the vision of Christian Nationalism in America, where separation of church and state is still being practiced.
Well done! A very practical and succinct explanation of Christian Nationalism. Thank you!
I personally wonder how well the speech would go over at any Native American reservation.
So does this mean that the Christianity of early America, and since that time, had no influence on our country's morality, politics, polices, cultural issues, etc.? I honestly think if there hadn't been so much of Christianity's influences, our country would not have had all the freedoms it has enjoyed. Freedom is a CHRISTIAN ideal - our laws are based on Christian principles. Without that we would literally have so much more atheism, humanism, secularism, and all that comes from those false worldviews than we already do. Certainly we have come a long way from what we once were in terms of morality and freedoms once enjoyed, but Christ is still KING and He REIGNS now over all the earth. We need another GREAT AWAKENING like we had in our past. The widespread preaching of the gospel is so needed now more than ever.
I agree with so much of what you wrote above. Thank you for sharing it.
I agree and applaud. The earth is the Lords and everything that's in it
Hey, there, really glad to see more churches speaking out about this issue. I do think it's important to mention some of the more insidious aspects of Christian Nationalism such as racism and sexism. Still, lots of really salient points here. Thanks and God bless.
I appreciate your response. It reminds me of two things that are important. First, every "ism" is idolatry, i.e., we worship something other than God (e.g., secularism, liberalism, materialism, etc.). Second, idolatry always leads to dehumanizing others (read any of the Prophets in the Old Testament). Worshiping the Canaanite god Baal always led to injustice and violence. So, it's no surprise that as an "ism," Christian Nationalism can lead to racism and sexism.
Racism is not a facet of Christian Nationalism, that's White Nationalism.
Sexism is enshrined in the Bible as clear as day.
@@paulbasden8431 Ism simply means belief in, not worship of.
@@fivebrosstopmos You are right that "ism" points to "belief in." What I'm saying is that every "ism" I know of goes beyond simple belief to a deep belief that leads to worship, meaning dedicating one's life to that entity. For example, Communism leads to worship of state-controlled economics; capitalism leads to worship of the free market; ditto for Marxism, humanism, Darwinism, etc. And by "worship," I mean building your life around something and finding ultimate meaning in it. Therefore, "nationalism" means building one's life around one's nation and finding ultimate meaning in it. Nationalism has happened throughout world history in countries on every continent. Since Jesus said, "Seek first God's Kingdom and his righteousness" (Matthew 6:33), I believe nationalism is dangerous and sinful, and must be avoided. We can love our country, but if we are Jesus-followers, we may not worship it ... or anything/anyone other than Jesus. Hope that makes sense. Thanks for commenting.
@@paulbasden8431 That's the way some isms go, in absence of a higher belief, but that is not the way they are required to go.
Jesus says seek ye first, which means we may have something second, such as nationalism, especially when we are a prophesied nation.
Great overview of the facts of American religious history. It should be re-released now, in time for the 2024 election system. Christian nationalist should also read 1 Sammuel Chapter 8.
I agree that a nation nor a business cannot be Christian and the push to make it so today comes out of fear and the desire to protect against the “anything goes” destructive immorality that’s gotten out of hand in our society.
Businesses are not the arm of the government unless owned by the government thus business can turn such places into living breathing profit making churches or a giant toilet seat.
This didn't go where I expected!
These are frightening times, so I am delighted that you are speaking up.
Did not Jesus commission his Apostles to "go and make disciples of all nations"? I would suggest that Jesus disagrees with your assessment.
I am a born-again Christian. Not bragging by any stretch. That is just me. This guy is right on target. My home in Heaven is not assured by my citizenship. Pilgrims came here for religious freedom. The separation of Church and State is important. For example, my heart is all for a Christian coach reading Scripture before a football game to his players. But...my blood would boil for a Muslim coach to read from the Koran. You get my point. I don't want teachers praying with my kids, but they better not keep my kids from praying over their noon meal. Mr. Basden is a smart dude. True story...in 1988 while providing security as a young Army NCO in the Honduras, my Food Service SGT came dragging a Catholic priest to me complaining about the priest stealing the garbage. The issue was the regulations state that trashed food remnants must not be consumed. The priest was taking our garbage 3 kilometers to his starving village. The priest left with my blessings to take all of our garbage, with some sacks of potatoes that were more than we could use, every day. Yes, I violated Amy Regulations. I think the priest was a true servant of God, even though I was a devout Baptist.
I have to respectfully disagree. Not only is what he said historically untrue but to think that God didn’t want to use this country to spread His name good works just unbelievable. Not only was the this continent founded by Christians, settled by Christians, governed by Christian for centuries. We’re all the founding fathers Christian, by all means no. But a majority of them were, so were the settlers who were puritan, and the constitution based on biblical principals. John Adams stated: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” How can you think this government was meant to be secular? Do you think this quote applied to Islam, no. How about Hinduism, no. It applied to Christianity, hence our Ten Commandments was displayed in law courts, churches were the centers of the communities, etc. If you believe Christian is the truth why wouldn’t you want country that embraces that true or at dictates itself on those principals. Look at your comment section, most of the people applauding are the atheist (no offense to them).
Shawn, thank you for speaking up. In eight minutes, I couldn't say ALL that I believe on this subject. To one of your points, I agree that the goal of the founding fathers was not a secular government. You are using the two options of secular and religious. I was using the two options of religious and specifically Christian. Since the vast majority of our early settlers in the colonies came from England, they were religious. England had a state church, as well as many non-conformist churches like Congregational, Baptist, and Presbyterian. And no doubt many who came to the New World were deeply dedicated Christians who loved God fervently. But I don't think America's founding documents, whether the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, reflect a consensus that America should be a nation "legally" committed to the Christian faith. In fact, there were intentional attempts to keep church and state from intermingling too much.
So in your view, it's okay to BELIEVE in Christ so long as I leave that belief in the sock drawer when I go vote? I'm not sure if you simply misunderstand us, or if you are intentionally mischaracterizing us. It really sounds from out here in the cheap seats like you believe we should simply surrender the culture war.
Hi, thank you for this excellent lecture. However, you could have said a lot more.
"A nation cannot be Christian." But, it CAN be founded on Biblical principles. Thomas Jefferson is the one who wrote "endowed by our Creator." He capitalized the word "Creator" on purpose. Let's follow that logically..... Oh, I guess that makes most of the founders CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS.
..... Thomas Jefferson wasn't even Christian. He was a deist, as were many of the others. That's when you believe there is a god, but reject organized religion.
In fact, Thomas Jefferson is extremely famous for his rejection of Christianity. He believed that Jesus was a mortal man to the point that he edited the Bible to remove all of the miracles, the supernatural, and Jesus's divinity.
That's right, America was founded on Heresy. Bet they didn't teach you that one in school.
The Founding Fathers were NOT all Christians. Way too many people believe they were.
By this logic Isreal is not a Jewish Nation.
If more Christians were like this I wouldn’t shudder every time someone tells me they’re Christian.
This needs to be taught in every church.
Now this is the type of Christian that makes me, as an atheist, proud to be an American. Thank you.
Should show you those woketard values are not Christian
Powerful message ty sir
wow, this is a wise man
Atheist here... please, please, please... speak loudly and often.
Also, you can call out David Barton freely.
Literally cannot disagree with anything in this video. Accurate, truthful and eloquent.
I really liked your second point.
The proper duty of government is irrelevant to how such a government was founded. If you are confused that the purpose of the State should be to promote the role of the Church in a proper Church-State relationship, then you should probably read St. Justinian.
So my take in things is the pilgrims did want to start a Christian nation. This was far before 1776. That background training in Holland and the Mayflower contract and more. So perhaps the uniqueness and exceptionslism of America is where I land in this. That Christian principles are required for a successful nation. And that God will bless a nation that follows him.
This video may explain a bit where I stand.
ua-cam.com/video/1p-CnfnsxK8/v-deo.html
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
Was founded on the Constitution. Separation of church and state.
I wonder if seminaries can be Christian?
Well, THAT wasn't what I expected! I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation, Sir. It wasn't hazy or maybe. It was verifiable. I'm not a Christian: it's a choice I've made. But it's disappointing to realize, from acquaintances, that so many Christians don't understand the New Testament is about the spiritual, not the corporeal.
I'm glad you were pleasantly surprised! There are several other talks in this series that might also surprise you.
My best, Paul
They all seem to have forgotten that Jesus teaches us to hate the sin and love the sinner. If you hate the sinner they will never see the love of God. But that doesn't fit with their narrative, you can't love people and be a bully at the same time. For some reason that just doesn't work.
Thank God. I'm not a theist, but I appreciate you speaking the truth. I'm terrified at the theocratic arm of the Right, and I'm hoping more moderate Christians speak up! I have a whole family of Christians who are pro-choice. Maybe you can talk about the history of abortion - how the clergy played a big role in opening up the first legal abortion clinic in New York! Really interesting how religious leaders helped women get abortions back in the day - they focused on showing compassion to women in troubling circumstances.
How about being a Christianized people? The Pilgrims as well as the Puritans had a profound impact upon the Colonization of the country. Your point is well made but it falls short because of the influence of Christianity in early America. Christian denominations came and flourished with their Protestant work ethic. What we have now is secularism, it’s getting hard for businesses to find help. We were a Christianized people, we are no more
by your no Christian school logic, there would be no Christian families either. Sorry, nations have a duty to submit to Christ. You see God addressing nations over and over in Scripture. He speaks to them as people that can repent as if a person and that they have Christian duties just like the individual.
Quite true. America was not founded as a Christian nation. But neither was it founded as a nation neutral towards religion…and most certainly not as a secular nation. It was founded as a theistic nation. Or basically, as we would describe it today, a Judeo-Christian nation.
So, of your two tales, the former is indeed mythological, but the latter is outright historical revisionism. Our founding was far closer to aligning with Christian Nationalism than Secular Nationalism. It’s just a fact.
If founded as a Christian nation (ie. Tribalism) - then why did they treat the Native Americans so poorly? Why wouldn't those founders have wanted to treat them with love and compassion under Christ? I cannot see a nation (ie. physical land-mass tribal construct claiming natural resources for themselves) try to base laws on religion at all. I just don't get the aspects of how Christian and Jewish are all based on land (controllable resources) when isn't the glory to be found in Heaven based on how we treat each other here? Currently "Christian" Nationalists (ie. simply Nationalists) want to put up walls, lock people out and take away rights and base it on writings of sometimes one man who was inspired to write 2000 or less years ago. If Jesus didn't say it - I sometimes don't want to hear it. I am wondering where Jesus said "put up walls, own the land, keep others out and use armed services to ensure tribal success and be sure to tax everyone as much as possible to pay for it all (and don't forget to give 10% to your church as well)."
@@johnmcvicker6728. Your reply, while outwardly appealing, seems unnecessarily naive. Every single country (and semi-autonomous territory) on the face of the earth either has a standing army or is protected by a colonial power or military alliance (like NATO). Everyone has borders, many of them with fences or walls. Pretty much everyone keeps certain people out and prioritizes its own citizens. This is how the world is run. And it is how it has always run.
@@johnmcvicker6728. And my guess is that you are a Christian “Familiyist.” And by that I mean that you have a fence around your house (or a lock on your door). Certain people are let in and others are kept out.
If this is not so, publish your address, and my family and I will come squat in your house. But don’t worry, we will thank you profusely for your marvelous personal model of Christian charity!
@@hanssvineklev648 It's great if we like tribalism and that helps us keep economy growing (defending and supporting nationalism times 160 countries). Will this planet ever evolve into a one-tribe world?
@@johnmcvicker6728.
My goodness! Would you want it to?? Such a scenario scares me more-much more-than some goofy, redneck white supremacists taking over our country.
There would be literally nowhere to flee. A One World government is going to have a particular worldview in order to be stable. And woe to them who think differently! I’m not sure I can think up anything worse than such an eventuality.
Well said, humbly and peacefully.
Thank you. That's encouraging to me.
Great video - an American atheist.
It has bugged me for a while just how attached Christians in America are to the idea of America being a Christian nation. When I was younger I was still thinking through the programming that had been put into me from my younger years. I have concluded that most American "Christians" who want to force Christianity on others are not actually followers of Christ. If they were, they would have taken Him saying that His kingdom is not of this world more seriously.
Jesus never wanted to force people to become Christians, or to enforce His will onto others. He wants people to choose Him willingly. He wants people to follow His example, being salt and light in the world. Because that is how we become lights that reflect Christ, guiding people toward Him. Forcing our beliefs onto others through legislation and force has done more damage to the world's view of us as a whole than anything the Devil could do alone. Quite frankly, I think that many of the "Christians" that are pushing Christian nationalism are working for the Devil. Much alike those who started the crusades and tried to "convert" the natives of many lands.
It isn't a new concept, it is just as destructive and horrific a thought process as ever. I am glad that there are more Christians recognizing the danger that Christian Nationalism poses. We should all be aware and wary. We can't let this thought process proliferate. It must be fought, or we face horrors that could equal or surpass those of the past.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding misunderstanding of Christian Nationalism.
Christian Nationalists do not want to force-convert nonbelievers, but we do want to enforce basic Biblical morality onto them, and squash evil pagan religion.
I disagree. As Christians, we are to preach the gospel. God has his people in every nation, not just America! Why do you think churches send missionaries all over the world? Go into ALL the nations, Jesus said. Something to think about!