This is truly a diamond in the rough. I just did the IMS bearing scare replacement on my at 64,000 miles, and the oil looked like new (no metal and not dark brown) and the bearing looked like new that I took out. The GT1 headlights on my car as I call them look modern to me before modern happened. I have a convertible and this car is awesome. I bought a raffle ticket for a new sounder 718 as a PCS member and my plan if I won it was to sell it and buy a 996.2 targa and a 997. That is how great this era of car is!
@@bigmacdaddy1234 new car handles like s*** the suspension is all wrong on it. It sets up 3 inches higher in the front than it does in the back. But you're smart you should know that.
@@terryl9996 I'm comparing stock to stock. Not sure why modified cars would come into the discussion. Regardless, no one is cross-shopping 993s and 996s today since one is valued 2 to 3 times the other. 996 is a great value, and the only 911 that most of us can afford these days.
Nice to see the 996 get some love. These were some of the last built with the smaller ims bearing that had issues, but that can be virtually eliminated with a $2k ims upgrade fix and you can do the clutch at the same time. Small investment for sleeping better at night. This one looks pretty worn out, control arms and bushings for sure will be loose, but some new suspension parts, leather seat repairs, that button in the dash is an easy fix, and a really nice detail job inside and out, headlights buffed out, and these 996.2 still look money driving down the road and handle great 👍
Nope. you can get a 987.1 Boxster S for way less money. And it's as good a car. Different - better in some ways, worse in others. So in pure value terms, the Boxster gives you far more per dollar. SO does a 986 Boxster S. Aagain, not saying it's a better car, but for half the money you get way more than half the car.
@@DoWorkExotics Not really, just because you can get, say, a 987.1 Boxster S for significantly less money and it's very similar to drive. The 3.2 in the 987.1 Boxster S is reasonably reliable, too. It's only the 3.4 of the 987.1 engines that's a real disaster.
@@flat6croc I’d take any 987.2 over any 987.1. Living with IMS fears gets old. Had a buddy lose his Boxster engine. It’s real and not fun. Same with bore scoring risks. 987.2 all day. 987.2 S? Even better.
These offer a driving experience you just can't get new any longer. And there is a level of engagement with these old cars that the new cars also won't give you (outside of spending serious money on something specialty built at a much higher level). And they are one of the few bargains in Porsche left because of the looks and engine worries depressing values. I think these and 987s are the only deals you can still get.
Odd thing about LSD on the 996 Carrera, it was only an option in 1999 and not available any other year. Only the 2004 40th anniversary model had a limited slip, plus the X51 Powerkit (+25hp from cams, heads, intake + exhaust manifolds). They're a bit pricey now, but the 40th anniversary is a potent package thats basically the 996 GTS we never got.
These are great reviews. I especially like the high fidelity sound you record. Gives me a sense of how rickety these old cars are. The media loves to hype these cars up with flowery poetry, but from the sound of chassis and trim rattle, these rusty old relics show their age.
We all do. 🙂You get a real sense of driving feedback with these cars. No exhaust notes being processed through the audio system, or suspension that feels like pudding. If it's there, you are going to feel it. If you see this as a relic showing it's age, this is obviously not the car for you.
Just got a 996.2 to replace my gr86. Definitely a diamond in the rough. Makes sense as I'm not really tracking these days. 997 gt3 shifter is a direct drop in to solve that problem. I appreciate the more classic style cluster, the sound of the engine firing up excites me and yes the steering feel is great. I'm sure I'll miss things abour the 86, but I'm excited for this leg of the journey.
I agree with you on the sloppiness of the shifting. My 996 feels like I'm shifting against a wet sponge. But man, when you are in 2nd or 3rd and hit that gas, that thing throws you back in the seat!
Limited slip was not an option on the .2 C2 cars. Only early .1 cars has LSD as an option. If I am not mistaken, the 40 Jar was the ONLY .2 C2 available with LSD and that was standard on the 1,963 40th Anniversary cars.
Interesting comments about the long gearing. For me, going from 10 mph to over 100 in 3rd is unreal. It’s a joy to behold. I’ve driven loads of 7 speed DSG’s PDk’s or whatever, and tons of modern six speeders, and none give you the thrill of torque then pure BHP as you hit the rev limiter. Perhaps I’m lucky having an x51 996 where the top end is a little fiery!
These and even some high milage 997 are entering my value range now the general used market is chilling out. Hopefully the trend continues into next winter.
My father purchased an '04 40th Anniversary 911 brand new and still owns it to this day. It has ~22k miles and is as clean as can be (also had the IMS done). I own an ND2 Miata and an FL5 Civic Type R, so we like our engaging (somewhat) affordable cars. I will always love the 40th, but I find myself preferring aspects such as the seats, seating position, shifters and steering precision of my cars.
I would be interested in hearing your comparison between your cars and the 996 40th anniv. as far as steering feel. Obviously, the newer cars will have better steering ratio and faster racks overall, but as far as feel, steering feedback/communication and directness goes, I'd like to know how they compare. All three if you can provide that feedback. Probably the light front end of the Porsche in certain dynamic conditions when weight is shifted even more to the rear might work against it in terms of steering feel compared to the other two, but what are your thoughts?
@@Jeff_F7 Just wrapped up "exercising" the 911. It's a 20 year old car (with low miles) and feels like it. The shift throw is long, the steering is fairly slow but communicative and nothing about the car is as "aggressive" as I seem to prefer. Getting back into the Miata felt like sliding into a form-fitting suit - it's lower, tighter, more eager to respond and I never find myself thinking that the steering is somehow less communicative (the car is not stock, FYI). The same goes for the Honda. The 911 doesn't have some magic steering ferry that the other two are missing. I wish I could say that I enjoyed it more but it's #3 in terms of the driving experience for me. With that said, the engine (X51 package, 345 HP) is a sweetheart and the induction noise is wonderful. There is a charm in the things that it lacks over the other two, given that it's now almost a "classic car." So, I've got to keep that in context. It's a great car to drive but if given the option on a long, winding road - it wouldn't be my first choice.
Your Car here seems to be a quite worn out Example! My 996 C4 Cabrio drives precise, shifts excellent (porsche short shifter) an looks great on the Interior with full Leather and even Carbon. I got the X51 Power Upgrade plus Sports Exhaust; love the Car; and the Fried Eggs too! The 996 is still underrated. But dont make a Mistake buying one for 25/30k! Go for the 40k plus Price Range and You will get a great Fun Car with Potential for a new Classic! Cheers from the Home of Porsche, Germany.
Unmatched fun driving experience for the money (ND Miata is a close second if you need something more modern). Had a '99 C4 few years ago, sold it, bought a new '23 BRZ and sold it after 8 months to buy another 996. The whole time driving the BRZ (which is a great car for the money too) I was longing for the character and feel of the 996. So happy back in one. The mid-range in 2nd & 3rd is just so much fun. I have since also picked up a base 991.1 PDK which I love but the 996 is more fun to drive as the 991 is more of a GT feeling. In the past I've had a base 997.1 which was my favorite Porsche I've had but the 996 is 90% of the same driving experience for half the cost (still do love the 997 styling). A 996 is a perfect daily or weekend car, and unless you put on big miles it won't lose any value which helps reduce the high repair & maintenance costs.
Now on my second 996 almost traded for the Turbo which got away from me and turned down a C4S because with the mods done on mine (exhaust, muffler and headers) I just could not trade it for any other one … it’s irreplaceable. Now I need to get my 1998 highly modified (headers, straight pipe, short throw and lowered) Boxster back on the street.
@Zygrene Nice review. Glad to hear that the 996.2 is still as visceral, analogue and engaging as what I hear about the 996.1 with its supposedly even lighter weight and cable-throttle (don't know what the huge deal is with cable-throttle vs electronic throttle, but that's what I always hear from those that are obsessed with the 996.1 (1999 models specifically) who try to dissect every quality of the 996.1 that supposedly make it the best 996 for its undistilled analogue experience compared to even the 996.2 in their opinions). I think as far as the interior quality issues, the full leather option where MOST of the dash was covered in leather (not sure if the center stack where the HVAC and stereo was was leather-covered but I don't think it was unfortunately) took care of alot of the issues in terms of appearance (and feel of the dash top, but not the buttons unfortunately) at least. Full leather option plus the optional painted (same color as the exterior) center console, optional aluminum-look shifter and handbrake and optional aluminum-look (silver) gauge faces gave the interior a decent boost in quality as far as appearance IMO. I always liked the overlapping gauge arrangement of the instrumentation in the 996, which started the trend of that feature, appearing in all 911's after that. It was a more modern take on the classic 911 five gauge arrangement. As far as exterior styling, I do agree that the 996.2 is better looking than the 996.1, but I never found the 996.1 to be bad to look at, especially with a slightly lower stance and 18" turbo twists or carrera II wheels like on the car in the video. Some 996 enthusiasts actually like the yellow lenses found on some early 996.1's but I do prefer the clear lenses for a 996.1. Question: you mention that modern 911's like the 991 have taken away alot of the rear-engine-placement feel of a 911. I think the 997 was still a great 911 with good proportions and somewhat analogue as well, yet quite a bit faster than the 996 I assume. I think? you reviewed one. Where does the 997 fall in your opinion when compared to the 996 and 991? Maybe exactly what one might think: exactly in the middle between the two?
997 drives almost the same, still feels rear-engined & analog, only a bit more power. I had a base 997.1 C2 and loved it (esp. the Fister exhaust). The 996 is 90% of the same driving experience for 50% of the cost. The current cost difference is not at all worth it although I do prefer the 997 styling. The interior is a toss-up - both have pros & cons but the biggest issue is the seats - the 997/987 seats have a ridiculous lower back bulge that I can't stand. I greatly prefer 996 seats although the one I bought last year had heated seats with too much lower back bulge (if no heated seats then no bulge). I had an auto upholstery shop shave it down for like $300 and all is well now. I put in a 997 stock shifter in my 996 which helps shift feel a lot (and many people go further with shifter upgrades). I actually like the 996 interior (on my third one plus a 986 years ago). The 997/987 interior is better but still has plenty of issues and feels dated too. You really have to step up to the 981/991 if you want truly modern feeling interior. I wouldn't consider the 997 for driving experience reasons but rather for styling (in & out), slightly more modern features and rarity/desirability. Also bore-scoring seems to be much more common on the 997.1 vs 996. The 996 makes a wonderful daily or all-purpose car to use and park without any concern as it's low-value vs the 997. I'm kind of baffled by how people discount the 996 due to the interior -- have they ever been in an air-cooled 911? The 996 interior has tons of character (good & bad) and feels like a spaceship compared to the air-cooled ones. It's functional, ergonomic and great for daily driving.
to the question of "how does it compare to other $25k sports cars" I think you have alot of options in that price category especially if you're willing to accept the risk of repair bills of Porsche ownership. $25k will get you a Z4M, s2000, C6 corvette, 987.1 Cayman, or an ND2 Miata. The point is that there are alot of options at that price point and while none of them have the cache of "I own a 911." Its worth noting that given the option, the owner of this channel chose the 987.1 cayman.
Excellent review as usual. However, interesting no bore scoring was mentioned. A far worse issue than IMS, that can be easily, and not too expensively dealt with. As much as I like it, I would never take the chances on those and face the astronomical premium Porsche specialists charge to sleeve it. I do some minor work, but sleeving it is something far out of my league.
I’ve driven a 356 , 1973 911 , 2018 GT3 , 2019 GT3 RS , 993 , GT4 RS & I like driving my 996.2 and have for many years ..clean car at a decent price & if it’s wrecked it’s not the end of the world . I like the size of the 996.2 compared to newer cars & still like a manual shift. If you don’t like the headlights or interior don’t buy one. There are lots of cars I don’t want & I really never think about them.
No slop in my steering, have a 996.2 cabriolet, change oil every 3000 km, replace ims bearing is a waste of $$ drive the car often and it will reward you. Dont garage queen these cars, bearing will fail typically at infant mortality stage as shaft is hollow bringing car up to temp and cooling each time creates a vacuum deteriorating tye seal on the bearing leaking the sealed grease. If you leave the plastic on ims resting becomes brittle keep driving or daily drive it as these cars are asking you to push hard. If your handy these cars are fun to work on, roof down flat 6 at 100 mph best experience ever! What a great sounding engine. I have a tip, be aware of buying a stick, as many borderline redline these engines and abuse. I keep to under 4000rpm. Just take care of it simple as that. I don't plan to sell so dont care about tip resale value being lower than stick. You posted a great video bud!!!
When I haad a 1994 300ZX with manual transmission, I drove it by putting my left hand on the top of the steering wheel and keeping my right hand on the shifter. Isn't this the proper way to drive a manual?
This is a good representation of a well worn 150k mile car. Before driving, nothing was mentioned of types of tires, tire pressure, etc. Just assume it was spec. Yet I have found tires make a huge difference on the 996 from brand to brand driving the same type of roads.
I had 5 "fun cars" in the stable and think my well-maintained 996.2 C4S was the least fun of all of them. I pretty much never grabbed the keys unless I was going to a PCA event. Despite installing a Numeric shifter, the transmission was super unsatisfying. That's no bueno in a "sports car" with a poor interface you touch hundreds of times on a drive! Plus, all the switchgear felt awful, as you mention. It felt like you'd break the turn or light stalks right off. Also, even if the car is "cheap," parts and maintenance are not cheap; you still have to pay the "Porsche tax." I have zero regrets about cutting it loose.
Thanks for the review. Can't believe they sold these things in the US with plastic dash and door cards. Yuck! Still, these cars are fabulous drives. Performance gap over the 3.4 feels more than 20hp. The 3.4 always slightly disappoints for performance, but the 3.6 has just enough. To me the body feels a bit more rigid. Not sure if they did anything to stiffen the shell on the 996.2, but it feels like it. They're relly nice cars, anyway, these .2 Carreras. Underrated.
The full leather interior option where most of the dash was covered in leather helped alot though, especially if the interior color was lighter. Full leather option with the optional painted center console (the area around the shifter and handbrake between the seats) and leather airbag cover on the steering wheel actually classed up the 996 interior quite a bit IMO.
I actually like the interior. It is a bit quirky for sure but it is functional. A way better in gen 2 than gen 1 in terms of quality. And it got me to rediscover my 90s CD collection 😅
Love the sound of that flat six even if it's only 3.4L, just enough power to have fun .. get through gears > 2nd. This is before porsches got bloated, rwb, i appreciate the flat sided classic style a lot more now. The interior looks as low rent as my Cayman 987 WTF 😮.
understeer can be managed by adjusting alignment and installing GT3 sway bars to control front to rear balance; also what is never mentioned is the 911 needs to be trail braked into fast corners to rotate probably - it's a different driving style - it's not mid engine but you can late brake and trail your way into a corner and when you get back on the throttle you rotate the back end and power away - many interviewers miss this because other mid engines cars don't require this driving style or just have tremendous front end grip - technique makes all the difference but I agree an untuned 911 driven like a non 911 does have understeer
@@silverP911Spot on! I’ve had driver coaching multiple times at different circuits in my 997 and trail braking into the corner gives you the front end grip. Then powering out of the corner rotates the car as you say. This doesn’t just apply to 911s, but with their rear weight bias it especially benefits high performance driving in them.
Almost bought the 1999 .1 C2 cab (non drive by wire). Test drove it twice love it both time. It's not a modern car; shifter is long and not precise; steering ratio is slow; brakes are marshmallow. But it can go fast at the same time with tons of feedback, beautiful engine note pass into cabin. Also turned around with that style (wife as not car person does hate the fried eggs lol). End up not buying because both nearby porsche mechanics against an early M96. Bought the next best thing as that price range a 987.2 boxster. More modern car but similar emotion. Someday I may get the 996 turbo!
I was the second owner of a 1988 911. Purchased in 1993, and sold it in 2012, for a LOT less than they sell for now. It was noisy, tall-happy, useless A/C... I miss that car every day. There's no way I can afford to buy (or maintain) one those air-cooled classics now, but these Gen2 cars are starting to pique my interest.
Very good value car IMHO. 993 is overpriced although it is admittedly very beautiful. My choice for a budget sports car is either a >2004E46 M3 or a 996.2 Carrera C2S.
These are great cars, if you can get over the interior and accept that a $30k car can quickly cost $60k, but that’s okay, because 4.0L stroker kits exist for these 😊
I got a 2,000, 996.1 at the beginning of the "panicdemic", $23,000 with 33,000 miles. 6 speed with many extras in Zenith Blue. Cable throttle, hydrophilic steering, lightest most arrow dynamic dream catcher ever! Le Mans Headlights rule. I drove a 914 for decades, the feel was low, light, and nimble. Go Carting thrills is my pursuit, not status. My car cost $85,000 in the year 2,000, adjusted for inflation that's $144,500 in today's money worth of Porsche for $23,000?! I will never sell this car, the driving thrills depends on the pilot!
I think the reliability scare of that motor is somewhat justified - you are buying the car as much as buying the previous owner. Being a 20+ year old car now, these have probably traded hands many times, and the current buyer may not know how well previous owners treated the car. Definitely recommend getting a detailed purchase inspection w/ bore scope from the sump. Everything else outside of the motor is very stout and easily replaceable. There’s no such thing as a cheap Porsche. Do your homework.
The old Porsche craze is getting expensive now. All the low hanging fruit has been picked. Now you have bucket of bolts showing up and they are just not worth rehabbing, and the prices are crazy!
I had this car and it's not worth the current asking price. The interior is an embarrassment with plastic everywhere. Seats are not supportive. The drive is nothing special to write home about. Terrible gas mileage. The exterior is nice - but you will always have to apologize for the headlights. For $30K you can do much, much better. If you must have one don't pay over $20K and put aside a few dollars to get the IMS and AOS done.
Yeah it's $25K but so is the engine rebuild with nickies sleeves and IMS. Shame on Porsche peddling those engines from 1998 to 2009. This is the generation we were supposed to be driving now, that blue collar workers were supposed to be able to finally afford as their dream sports cars, but they are financial black holes
They are also cheap since many were made, approx. 180K over 6 years. Nice review. I own a 2002 Targa for 5 years and put 10K miles per year. Love it, but don't track it.
Not a fan of this gen. I think era for era, and to this day, the better buy is the e46 M3. More usable, more reliable (especially these days where permanent fixes exist for the big three major problems), better looking inside and out, and around the same price now. I think you get a 996 for the sake of getting a 911. 993 and 997 are significantly more desirable, and even a 987 boxster/cayman I think is a better buy. The engine issues plus the interior just kill this too much imo
Problem for me with the E46 M3 is that it's not actually that great to drive. Steering isn't great, pedals aren't great, shift isn't great. Then it's more saloon / sedan than sports car - the seating position is quite high. The engine is a little light on torque, too. The 996.2 is far more of a driver's car than the E46 M3 for me, way, way better. Miles better steering and pedals. In some ways it drives better than the 997 Carrera, it's purer and more engaging. The interior is OK so long as it has extended leather, too. But, yes, the engine is a total liability. But the 997.1 engine is just as bad.
@@flat6croc fair enough. Agreed on steering and pedals, for a hydraulic system it really doesn’t have as much feel as you’d expect. And the pedals are slightly offset (or the seat, either way awkward driving position), but the shifter on a pre 991/981 gen really isn’t that great either. Just a difference of opinion I guess but I do think the e46 M3 is a better driver’s car even with all that. It’s a high revving engine so of course one shouldn’t expect a whole lot of torque, but it still gives you an analog driving experience while being a nicer place to be in. 996 feels more raw than a 997 but for me, I’d go for a 993/964 if I was looking for that kind of experience. 997 for a more dual-duty thing, and so the 996 just ends up being the ‘meh’ middle ground to me.
@@itspronouncedjello Yeah, it is all subjective. I don't own a 996, so I obviously don't love them enough to buy one. But I could understand someone buying one over a 997 Carrera. I'd say the 996.2 Carrera is strictly a better driver's car than a 997 Carrera and comfortably so over the E46 M3, which for me has a nice engine and does skids but lacks focus. Given its rep as a driver's car, the primary controls on the E46 M3 really are pretty crap. And yes, agree the pre 9x1 shift quality isn't great from the factory. Can be improved quite a bit. I assume / hope that's the case on the E46. I've only driven a couple of fairly stock E46 M3s and the steering, shift and pedals were a big disappointment. Very poor for a car with such a rep. I would say very poor for an M car, but I've yet to drive a BMW with a really nice shift and a proper brake pedal.
@@flat6croc yeah the good news is that, just like with Porsches, a shifter solution does exist for the e46 M3 that brings shifter feel close to what a brz/86 feels like. Brake feel can be significantly improved with just a refresh (it is a 20yr old car) tho many go the BBK route while they’re at it. S2000 is still my standard for shift feel, and unfortunately I haven’t come across a non-Honda that’s remotely close even with mods haha
996/997 vs E46 is an interesting topic. Agreed that the E46 doesn't have great inputs (steering, pedals, shifter) but the way it drives near the limit is just intoxicating. Stay tuned for my M3 generations comparison video!
Nope. As a former 996 owner I can attest, the entire 996 platform is the worst 911 made and the prices reflect it. The fact that Porsche engineers thought it was a good idea to install a sealed greased bearing inside an engine constantly bathed in engine oil alone is a major red flag. Never like the looks outside or inside interior as well. The M96 engine may gi down in history as one of the most poorly designed engines made.
As a current 996 owner I disagree. The platform IMO is well balanced. It’s the lightest 911 ever made. The engine problems only occurred in 8% of the total productions. Changing out the IMS is not costly on these cars.
A 987.2 base car is a great buy for a modern Porsche, but you're spending more like 45k if you want a nice Cayman S. Much more reliable engine, but I will say the non DFI motors have an interesting quality and character to them (mostly the noise) that is lost when they moved to direct injection.
all the guys I know who track both cayman and 911 end up selling the cayman - the 911 is more satisfying to drive if you learn how - that's just an observation over my last 20 years at the track - cayman is fun - but it's a different flavor and easier to drive
False! People back then said the same thing about the 964 that I was the worst generation and look at it now…. 996 drives like a pure 911 in all aspects and does better than any air cooled car which are highly overpriced. 997 has too many tech features that take away from the raw driving experience.
@@user-io4vx2pn4i so far it’s money well spend my friend 😉. No issues or problems. Chassis is 124K and newer motor is 40K. Which 911 is not junk to you? Cause ALL 911 have issues and flaws yet we still buy them and love them…
Well I’ve owned a couple Cayennes, as far as SUVs go they’re probably my favorite. As far as the rest you mentioned they’re all cheesy soccer mom mobiles, no different than buying an Audi or BMW. Except for the fact that you’ll lose even more money when you sell them.
This is truly a diamond in the rough. I just did the IMS bearing scare replacement on my at 64,000 miles, and the oil looked like new (no metal and not dark brown) and the bearing looked like new that I took out. The GT1 headlights on my car as I call them look modern to me before modern happened. I have a convertible and this car is awesome. I bought a raffle ticket for a new sounder 718 as a PCS member and my plan if I won it was to sell it and buy a 996.2 targa and a 997. That is how great this era of car is!
If there's slop in that car's steering, it's that particular car. My 996 is super sharp.
Agree 100%
Same here
I have my suspension done it handles like a supercar
@@wesleycarusos8225 Um, no. It never handled like a supercar. Not even when new.
@@bigmacdaddy1234 new car handles like s*** the suspension is all wrong on it. It sets up 3 inches higher in the front than it does in the back. But you're smart you should know that.
996.2 had the best aero 5-spokes of all the generations
Still dogshit compared to the 993
Just lighter, more powerful, faster and with an actual working heater. Total dogshit. 🙄
@@afoolandhismoneychannel Wrong. All the the most potently tuned 911's across the world are built on the 993
@@terryl9996 I'm comparing stock to stock. Not sure why modified cars would come into the discussion. Regardless, no one is cross-shopping 993s and 996s today since one is valued 2 to 3 times the other. 996 is a great value, and the only 911 that most of us can afford these days.
@@afoolandhismoneychannelWas referring to the potential of each. the 996 was also just a lazy rear engine rendition of their gay spiderman 986
Nice to see the 996 get some love. These were some of the last built with the smaller ims bearing that had issues, but that can be virtually eliminated with a $2k ims upgrade fix and you can do the clutch at the same time. Small investment for sleeping better at night. This one looks pretty worn out, control arms and bushings for sure will be loose, but some new suspension parts, leather seat repairs, that button in the dash is an easy fix, and a really nice detail job inside and out, headlights buffed out, and these 996.2 still look money driving down the road and handle great 👍
Another great Porsche review! Really enjoy the execution of your videos. No fluff, all buff 💪.
great review and the car looks so good especially from the rear.
Love your reviews! keep them coming
It's the best 911 Porsche you can buy value-wise, for the price you pay and what you get...
I’d say that’s actually a 987.2 Cayman or Boxster.
Nope. you can get a 987.1 Boxster S for way less money. And it's as good a car. Different - better in some ways, worse in others. So in pure value terms, the Boxster gives you far more per dollar. SO does a 986 Boxster S. Aagain, not saying it's a better car, but for half the money you get way more than half the car.
@@DoWorkExotics Not really, just because you can get, say, a 987.1 Boxster S for significantly less money and it's very similar to drive. The 3.2 in the 987.1 Boxster S is reasonably reliable, too. It's only the 3.4 of the 987.1 engines that's a real disaster.
@@flat6croc I’d take any 987.2 over any 987.1. Living with IMS fears gets old. Had a buddy lose his Boxster engine. It’s real and not fun. Same with bore scoring risks. 987.2 all day. 987.2 S? Even better.
@@DoWorkExotics I was talking about the 911 model...
These offer a driving experience you just can't get new any longer. And there is a level of engagement with these old cars that the new cars also won't give you (outside of spending serious money on something specialty built at a much higher level). And they are one of the few bargains in Porsche left because of the looks and engine worries depressing values. I think these and 987s are the only deals you can still get.
Luv this vids man
I drive a 996.2 GT3 Clubsport. An absolut dream
Odd thing about LSD on the 996 Carrera, it was only an option in 1999 and not available any other year. Only the 2004 40th anniversary model had a limited slip, plus the X51 Powerkit (+25hp from cams, heads, intake + exhaust manifolds). They're a bit pricey now, but the 40th anniversary is a potent package thats basically the 996 GTS we never got.
I remember seeing 996’s in the $10k range pre covid. Crazy! Now they’re $25k for a good one getting close to $30k for solid ones
These are great reviews. I especially like the high fidelity sound you record. Gives me a sense of how rickety these old cars are. The media loves to hype these cars up with flowery poetry, but from the sound of chassis and trim rattle, these rusty old relics show their age.
We all do. 🙂You get a real sense of driving feedback with these cars. No exhaust notes being processed through the audio system, or suspension that feels like pudding. If it's there, you are going to feel it. If you see this as a relic showing it's age, this is obviously not the car for you.
Great Review
Just got a 996.2 to replace my gr86. Definitely a diamond in the rough. Makes sense as I'm not really tracking these days.
997 gt3 shifter is a direct drop in to solve that problem.
I appreciate the more classic style cluster, the sound of the engine firing up excites me and yes the steering feel is great.
I'm sure I'll miss things abour the 86, but I'm excited for this leg of the journey.
I agree with you on the sloppiness of the shifting. My 996 feels like I'm shifting against a wet sponge. But man, when you are in 2nd or 3rd and hit that gas, that thing throws you back in the seat!
Love my 996 ❤
Limited slip was not an option on the .2 C2 cars. Only early .1 cars has LSD as an option. If I am not mistaken, the 40 Jar was the ONLY .2 C2 available with LSD and that was standard on the 1,963 40th Anniversary cars.
Interesting comments about the long gearing. For me, going from 10 mph to over 100 in 3rd is unreal. It’s a joy to behold. I’ve driven loads of 7 speed DSG’s PDk’s or whatever, and tons of modern six speeders, and none give you the thrill of torque then pure BHP as you hit the rev limiter. Perhaps I’m lucky having an x51 996 where the top end is a little fiery!
The video I was looking for! Subscribing
These and even some high milage 997 are entering my value range now the general used market is chilling out. Hopefully the trend continues into next winter.
My father purchased an '04 40th Anniversary 911 brand new and still owns it to this day. It has ~22k miles and is as clean as can be (also had the IMS done).
I own an ND2 Miata and an FL5 Civic Type R, so we like our engaging (somewhat) affordable cars. I will always love the 40th, but I find myself preferring aspects such as the seats, seating position, shifters and steering precision of my cars.
I would be interested in hearing your comparison between your cars and the 996 40th anniv. as far as steering feel. Obviously, the newer cars will have better steering ratio and faster racks overall, but as far as feel, steering feedback/communication and directness goes, I'd like to know how they compare. All three if you can provide that feedback. Probably the light front end of the Porsche in certain dynamic conditions when weight is shifted even more to the rear might work against it in terms of steering feel compared to the other two, but what are your thoughts?
@@Jeff_F7 Good timing, as I drove the Honda all day yesterday and will be driving the ND2 and 911 today. I will report back.
@@Jeff_F7 Just wrapped up "exercising" the 911. It's a 20 year old car (with low miles) and feels like it. The shift throw is long, the steering is fairly slow but communicative and nothing about the car is as "aggressive" as I seem to prefer. Getting back into the Miata felt like sliding into a form-fitting suit - it's lower, tighter, more eager to respond and I never find myself thinking that the steering is somehow less communicative (the car is not stock, FYI). The same goes for the Honda. The 911 doesn't have some magic steering ferry that the other two are missing. I wish I could say that I enjoyed it more but it's #3 in terms of the driving experience for me. With that said, the engine (X51 package, 345 HP) is a sweetheart and the induction noise is wonderful. There is a charm in the things that it lacks over the other two, given that it's now almost a "classic car." So, I've got to keep that in context. It's a great car to drive but if given the option on a long, winding road - it wouldn't be my first choice.
Your Car here seems to be a quite worn out Example!
My 996 C4 Cabrio drives precise, shifts excellent (porsche short shifter) an looks great on the Interior with full Leather and even Carbon.
I got the X51 Power Upgrade plus Sports Exhaust; love the Car; and the Fried Eggs too!
The 996 is still underrated.
But dont make a Mistake buying one for 25/30k!
Go for the 40k plus Price Range and You will get a great Fun Car with Potential for a new Classic!
Cheers from the Home of Porsche,
Germany.
Unmatched fun driving experience for the money (ND Miata is a close second if you need something more modern). Had a '99 C4 few years ago, sold it, bought a new '23 BRZ and sold it after 8 months to buy another 996. The whole time driving the BRZ (which is a great car for the money too) I was longing for the character and feel of the 996. So happy back in one. The mid-range in 2nd & 3rd is just so much fun. I have since also picked up a base 991.1 PDK which I love but the 996 is more fun to drive as the 991 is more of a GT feeling. In the past I've had a base 997.1 which was my favorite Porsche I've had but the 996 is 90% of the same driving experience for half the cost (still do love the 997 styling). A 996 is a perfect daily or weekend car, and unless you put on big miles it won't lose any value which helps reduce the high repair & maintenance costs.
A Boxster of the same year offers a better driving experience for half the money.
Now on my second 996 almost traded for the Turbo which got away from me and turned down a C4S because with the mods done on mine (exhaust, muffler and headers) I just could not trade it for any other one … it’s irreplaceable. Now I need to get my 1998 highly modified (headers, straight pipe, short throw and lowered) Boxster back on the street.
@Zygrene Nice review. Glad to hear that the 996.2 is still as visceral, analogue and engaging as what I hear about the 996.1 with its supposedly even lighter weight and cable-throttle (don't know what the huge deal is with cable-throttle vs electronic throttle, but that's what I always hear from those that are obsessed with the 996.1 (1999 models specifically) who try to dissect every quality of the 996.1 that supposedly make it the best 996 for its undistilled analogue experience compared to even the 996.2 in their opinions). I think as far as the interior quality issues, the full leather option where MOST of the dash was covered in leather (not sure if the center stack where the HVAC and stereo was was leather-covered but I don't think it was unfortunately) took care of alot of the issues in terms of appearance (and feel of the dash top, but not the buttons unfortunately) at least. Full leather option plus the optional painted (same color as the exterior) center console, optional aluminum-look shifter and handbrake and optional aluminum-look (silver) gauge faces gave the interior a decent boost in quality as far as appearance IMO. I always liked the overlapping gauge arrangement of the instrumentation in the 996, which started the trend of that feature, appearing in all 911's after that. It was a more modern take on the classic 911 five gauge arrangement. As far as exterior styling, I do agree that the 996.2 is better looking than the 996.1, but I never found the 996.1 to be bad to look at, especially with a slightly lower stance and 18" turbo twists or carrera II wheels like on the car in the video. Some 996 enthusiasts actually like the yellow lenses found on some early 996.1's but I do prefer the clear lenses for a 996.1.
Question: you mention that modern 911's like the 991 have taken away alot of the rear-engine-placement feel of a 911. I think the 997 was still a great 911 with good proportions and somewhat analogue as well, yet quite a bit faster than the 996 I assume. I think? you reviewed one. Where does the 997 fall in your opinion when compared to the 996 and 991? Maybe exactly what one might think: exactly in the middle between the two?
997 drives almost the same, still feels rear-engined & analog, only a bit more power. I had a base 997.1 C2 and loved it (esp. the Fister exhaust). The 996 is 90% of the same driving experience for 50% of the cost. The current cost difference is not at all worth it although I do prefer the 997 styling. The interior is a toss-up - both have pros & cons but the biggest issue is the seats - the 997/987 seats have a ridiculous lower back bulge that I can't stand. I greatly prefer 996 seats although the one I bought last year had heated seats with too much lower back bulge (if no heated seats then no bulge). I had an auto upholstery shop shave it down for like $300 and all is well now.
I put in a 997 stock shifter in my 996 which helps shift feel a lot (and many people go further with shifter upgrades).
I actually like the 996 interior (on my third one plus a 986 years ago). The 997/987 interior is better but still has plenty of issues and feels dated too. You really have to step up to the 981/991 if you want truly modern feeling interior.
I wouldn't consider the 997 for driving experience reasons but rather for styling (in & out), slightly more modern features and rarity/desirability. Also bore-scoring seems to be much more common on the 997.1 vs 996. The 996 makes a wonderful daily or all-purpose car to use and park without any concern as it's low-value vs the 997.
I'm kind of baffled by how people discount the 996 due to the interior -- have they ever been in an air-cooled 911? The 996 interior has tons of character (good & bad) and feels like a spaceship compared to the air-cooled ones. It's functional, ergonomic and great for daily driving.
the sloppy center in the steering is definitely due to wear. the 996 usually is incredibly neutral and precise in the center.
the moment i’ve all been waiting for 🤠 base model peasant feeling 04 rich is the only way to own a Poorsche
to the question of "how does it compare to other $25k sports cars" I think you have alot of options in that price category especially if you're willing to accept the risk of repair bills of Porsche ownership. $25k will get you a Z4M, s2000, C6 corvette, 987.1 Cayman, or an ND2 Miata. The point is that there are alot of options at that price point and while none of them have the cache of "I own a 911." Its worth noting that given the option, the owner of this channel chose the 987.1 cayman.
Excellent review as usual.
However, interesting no bore scoring was mentioned.
A far worse issue than IMS, that can be easily, and not too expensively dealt with.
As much as I like it, I would never take the chances on those and face the astronomical premium Porsche specialists charge to sleeve it.
I do some minor work, but sleeving it is something far out of my league.
7:01 you mean this bore scoring?
@@d.nakamura9579at least 5 people did not listen carefully, evidently
I’ve driven a 356 , 1973 911 , 2018 GT3 , 2019 GT3 RS , 993 , GT4 RS & I like driving my 996.2 and have for many years ..clean car at a decent price & if it’s wrecked it’s not the end of the world . I like the size of the 996.2 compared to newer cars & still like a manual shift.
If you don’t like the headlights or interior don’t buy one. There are lots of cars I don’t want & I really never think about them.
No slop in my steering, have a 996.2 cabriolet, change oil every 3000 km, replace ims bearing is a waste of $$ drive the car often and it will reward you. Dont garage queen these cars, bearing will fail typically at infant mortality stage as shaft is hollow bringing car up to temp and cooling each time creates a vacuum deteriorating tye seal on the bearing leaking the sealed grease. If you leave the plastic on ims resting becomes brittle keep driving or daily drive it as these cars are asking you to push hard. If your handy these cars are fun to work on, roof down flat 6 at 100 mph best experience ever! What a great sounding engine. I have a tip, be aware of buying a stick, as many borderline redline these engines and abuse. I keep to under 4000rpm. Just take care of it simple as that. I don't plan to sell so dont care about tip resale value being lower than stick. You posted a great video bud!!!
When I haad a 1994 300ZX with manual transmission, I drove it by putting my left hand on the top of the steering wheel and keeping my right hand on the shifter. Isn't this the proper way to drive a manual?
Can you do a 996.2 Tiptronic ??? I'm going to be in the market soon for a 996.2 or 996.1 (Tiptronic)
This is a good representation of a well worn 150k mile car. Before driving, nothing was mentioned of types of tires, tire pressure, etc. Just assume it was spec. Yet I have found tires make a huge difference on the 996 from brand to brand driving the same type of roads.
I had 5 "fun cars" in the stable and think my well-maintained 996.2 C4S was the least fun of all of them. I pretty much never grabbed the keys unless I was going to a PCA event. Despite installing a Numeric shifter, the transmission was super unsatisfying. That's no bueno in a "sports car" with a poor interface you touch hundreds of times on a drive! Plus, all the switchgear felt awful, as you mention. It felt like you'd break the turn or light stalks right off. Also, even if the car is "cheap," parts and maintenance are not cheap; you still have to pay the "Porsche tax." I have zero regrets about cutting it loose.
Thanks for the review. Can't believe they sold these things in the US with plastic dash and door cards. Yuck! Still, these cars are fabulous drives. Performance gap over the 3.4 feels more than 20hp. The 3.4 always slightly disappoints for performance, but the 3.6 has just enough. To me the body feels a bit more rigid. Not sure if they did anything to stiffen the shell on the 996.2, but it feels like it. They're relly nice cars, anyway, these .2 Carreras. Underrated.
I actually prefer the 996.2 interior plastic (and how they have aged) over the paint-peeling crusty 997.1 and 987.1 plastics
The full leather interior option where most of the dash was covered in leather helped alot though, especially if the interior color was lighter. Full leather option with the optional painted center console (the area around the shifter and handbrake between the seats) and leather airbag cover on the steering wheel actually classed up the 996 interior quite a bit IMO.
I actually like the interior. It is a bit quirky for sure but it is functional. A way better in gen 2 than gen 1 in terms of quality. And it got me to rediscover my 90s CD collection 😅
Great car
The 997.1 was the sweet-spot.
Looks modern inside and out (especially with PCCM+) and the inevitable bore scoring means prices aren’t silly.
My son has a 996 Carrera 4S, sub 30k miles , IMS done, immaculate and drives beautifully
Is that shifter from an 18-wheeler?
Love the sound of that flat six even if it's only 3.4L, just enough power to have fun .. get through gears > 2nd. This is before porsches got bloated, rwb, i appreciate the flat sided classic style a lot more now. The interior looks as low rent as my Cayman 987 WTF 😮.
This one is a 3.6, no?
Might be an old car but still a 911
lol the 911 from 60 70s is still better looking than some modern models
How’s the understeer? I don’t hear much about it but it is a very present characteristic of the earlier 911’s.
It's definitely present, but it bothers me a lot less than it used to
understeer can be managed by adjusting alignment and installing GT3 sway bars to control front to rear balance; also what is never mentioned is the 911 needs to be trail braked into fast corners to rotate probably - it's a different driving style - it's not mid engine but you can late brake and trail your way into a corner and when you get back on the throttle you rotate the back end and power away - many interviewers miss this because other mid engines cars don't require this driving style or just have tremendous front end grip - technique makes all the difference but I agree an untuned 911 driven like a non 911 does have understeer
@@silverP911Spot on! I’ve had driver coaching multiple times at different circuits in my 997 and trail braking into the corner gives you the front end grip. Then powering out of the corner rotates the car as you say. This doesn’t just apply to 911s, but with their rear weight bias it especially benefits high performance driving in them.
Almost bought the 1999 .1 C2 cab (non drive by wire). Test drove it twice love it both time. It's not a modern car; shifter is long and not precise; steering ratio is slow; brakes are marshmallow.
But it can go fast at the same time with tons of feedback, beautiful engine note pass into cabin. Also turned around with that style (wife as not car person does hate the fried eggs lol).
End up not buying because both nearby porsche mechanics against an early M96. Bought the next best thing as that price range a 987.2 boxster. More modern car but similar emotion. Someday I may get the 996 turbo!
Early m96 is the more stout and reliable engine.
@@tuul75One mechanic told me the block isn't as strong? I know the IMS is better but the weak block (if true) and bore score got me worry.
I was the second owner of a 1988 911. Purchased in 1993, and sold it in 2012, for a LOT less than they sell for now. It was noisy, tall-happy, useless A/C... I miss that car every day. There's no way I can afford to buy (or maintain) one those air-cooled classics now, but these Gen2 cars are starting to pique my interest.
Damn bro, it’s not a Dakar (the mud)!
You lost me at tall gearing. Haha
Very good value car IMHO. 993 is overpriced although it is admittedly very beautiful. My choice for a budget sports car is either a >2004E46 M3 or a 996.2 Carrera C2S.
These are great cars, if you can get over the interior and accept that a $30k car can quickly cost $60k, but that’s okay, because 4.0L stroker kits exist for these 😊
I got a 2,000, 996.1 at the beginning of the "panicdemic", $23,000 with 33,000 miles. 6 speed with many extras in Zenith Blue. Cable throttle, hydrophilic steering, lightest most arrow dynamic dream catcher ever! Le Mans Headlights rule. I drove a 914 for decades, the feel was low, light, and nimble. Go Carting thrills is my pursuit, not status. My car cost $85,000 in the year 2,000, adjusted for inflation that's $144,500 in today's money worth of Porsche for $23,000?! I will never sell this car, the driving thrills depends on the pilot!
Lets not promote the 996 as the next big thing.. otherwise.. forget the 20-30k car... fork out 40-50..
bro.. people love the fried eggs now,
I think the reliability scare of that motor is somewhat justified - you are buying the car as much as buying the previous owner. Being a 20+ year old car now, these have probably traded hands many times, and the current buyer may not know how well previous owners treated the car. Definitely recommend getting a detailed purchase inspection w/ bore scope from the sump. Everything else outside of the motor is very stout and easily replaceable. There’s no such thing as a cheap Porsche. Do your homework.
The old Porsche craze is getting expensive now. All the low hanging fruit has been picked. Now you have bucket of bolts showing up and they are just not worth rehabbing, and the prices are crazy!
20 more HP but more IMS failures AND the 3.6 is a lot more susceptible to bore scoring.
996 📈
Buy the car for enjoyment not investment. 😅😅
Why are you parking it in the mud? 🙂
Yeah, that thing needs a short shifter in the worst way
go install a 997 "S" sport shifter - Porsche OEM and you'll love it!
I had this car and it's not worth the current asking price. The interior is an embarrassment with plastic everywhere. Seats are not supportive. The drive is nothing special to write home about. Terrible gas mileage. The exterior is nice - but you will always have to apologize for the headlights. For $30K you can do much, much better. If you must have one don't pay over $20K and put aside a few dollars to get the IMS and AOS done.
Yeah it's $25K but so is the engine rebuild with nickies sleeves and IMS. Shame on Porsche peddling those engines from 1998 to 2009. This is the generation we were supposed to be driving now, that blue collar workers were supposed to be able to finally afford as their dream sports cars, but they are financial black holes
That thing is a beater 996. Mine have been in amazing condition inside. I’ve owned 5 love them.
I still see fried eggs. You can’t subdue them.
Is Sally 996.1 or 996.2？
Definitely a .2 based on the headlights!
996.9 for Lightning McQueen!😂
Only 996.1 had wire acceleration
They are also cheap since many were made, approx. 180K over 6 years. Nice review. I own a 2002 Targa for 5 years and put 10K miles per year. Love it, but don't track it.
Not a fan of this gen. I think era for era, and to this day, the better buy is the e46 M3. More usable, more reliable (especially these days where permanent fixes exist for the big three major problems), better looking inside and out, and around the same price now. I think you get a 996 for the sake of getting a 911. 993 and 997 are significantly more desirable, and even a 987 boxster/cayman I think is a better buy. The engine issues plus the interior just kill this too much imo
Problem for me with the E46 M3 is that it's not actually that great to drive. Steering isn't great, pedals aren't great, shift isn't great. Then it's more saloon / sedan than sports car - the seating position is quite high. The engine is a little light on torque, too. The 996.2 is far more of a driver's car than the E46 M3 for me, way, way better. Miles better steering and pedals. In some ways it drives better than the 997 Carrera, it's purer and more engaging. The interior is OK so long as it has extended leather, too. But, yes, the engine is a total liability. But the 997.1 engine is just as bad.
@@flat6croc fair enough. Agreed on steering and pedals, for a hydraulic system it really doesn’t have as much feel as you’d expect. And the pedals are slightly offset (or the seat, either way awkward driving position), but the shifter on a pre 991/981 gen really isn’t that great either. Just a difference of opinion I guess but I do think the e46 M3 is a better driver’s car even with all that. It’s a high revving engine so of course one shouldn’t expect a whole lot of torque, but it still gives you an analog driving experience while being a nicer place to be in. 996 feels more raw than a 997 but for me, I’d go for a 993/964 if I was looking for that kind of experience. 997 for a more dual-duty thing, and so the 996 just ends up being the ‘meh’ middle ground to me.
@@itspronouncedjello Yeah, it is all subjective. I don't own a 996, so I obviously don't love them enough to buy one. But I could understand someone buying one over a 997 Carrera. I'd say the 996.2 Carrera is strictly a better driver's car than a 997 Carrera and comfortably so over the E46 M3, which for me has a nice engine and does skids but lacks focus. Given its rep as a driver's car, the primary controls on the E46 M3 really are pretty crap. And yes, agree the pre 9x1 shift quality isn't great from the factory. Can be improved quite a bit. I assume / hope that's the case on the E46. I've only driven a couple of fairly stock E46 M3s and the steering, shift and pedals were a big disappointment. Very poor for a car with such a rep. I would say very poor for an M car, but I've yet to drive a BMW with a really nice shift and a proper brake pedal.
@@flat6croc yeah the good news is that, just like with Porsches, a shifter solution does exist for the e46 M3 that brings shifter feel close to what a brz/86 feels like. Brake feel can be significantly improved with just a refresh (it is a 20yr old car) tho many go the BBK route while they’re at it. S2000 is still my standard for shift feel, and unfortunately I haven’t come across a non-Honda that’s remotely close even with mods haha
996/997 vs E46 is an interesting topic. Agreed that the E46 doesn't have great inputs (steering, pedals, shifter) but the way it drives near the limit is just intoxicating. Stay tuned for my M3 generations comparison video!
You parked in a mud hole, nice car though
Nope. As a former 996 owner I can attest, the entire 996 platform is the worst 911 made and the prices reflect it. The fact that Porsche engineers thought it was a good idea to install a sealed greased bearing inside an engine constantly bathed in engine oil alone is a major red flag. Never like the looks outside or inside interior as well. The M96 engine may gi down in history as one of the most poorly designed engines made.
As a current 996 owner I disagree. The platform IMO is well balanced. It’s the lightest 911 ever made. The engine problems only occurred in 8% of the total productions. Changing out the IMS is not costly on these cars.
My favorite 911 generation, besides the interior lol. Love the .2 headlights.
Come drive mine. It’s a 64k mile minter.
First like
I personally rather have a 987.2. Better driving, handling, significantly more reliable, etc. but to each their own
A 987.2 base car is a great buy for a modern Porsche, but you're spending more like 45k if you want a nice Cayman S. Much more reliable engine, but I will say the non DFI motors have an interesting quality and character to them (mostly the noise) that is lost when they moved to direct injection.
all the guys I know who track both cayman and 911 end up selling the cayman - the 911 is more satisfying to drive if you learn how - that's just an observation over my last 20 years at the track - cayman is fun - but it's a different flavor and easier to drive
@@TheBucketOfTruth non DFI is the reason you go 911? Lol
@@silverP911 and I’ve heard the opposite. But to each their own.
exactly! the noise of the 996 rocks... the 3.4 sounds especially good with the porsche sport exhaust... it's that good@@TheBucketOfTruth
I've been a Porsche mechanic for over 35 years, all I have to say is Junk.
Yes, very. It's the worst 911 ever made and the only reason it gets attention is due to it having the lowest entry price.
False! People back then said the same thing about the 964 that I was the worst generation and look at it now….
996 drives like a pure 911 in all aspects and does better than any air cooled car which are highly overpriced. 997 has too many tech features that take away from the raw driving experience.
@@C4S911 It's your money my friend. I personally will never own one again
@@user-io4vx2pn4i so far it’s money well spend my friend 😉. No issues or problems. Chassis is 124K and newer motor is 40K.
Which 911 is not junk to you? Cause ALL 911 have issues and flaws yet we still buy them and love them…
Not underrated. Worst car Porsche ever made next to the 924.
Seems that you have forgotten the Cayenne, Macan, Panamera, Taycan......
Well I’ve owned a couple Cayennes, as far as SUVs go they’re probably my favorite. As far as the rest you mentioned they’re all cheesy soccer mom mobiles, no different than buying an Audi or BMW. Except for the fact that you’ll lose even more money when you sell them.
@dondo