Porsche 911 Turbo (996) 2002 vs 911 Carrera (992) 2022 | Fifth Gear 20th Anniversary
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- To celebrate 20 years (yes, 20 years!) of Fifth Gear, Jason Plato is behind the wheel of a Porsche 911 Turbo (996) - which was first featured on the show in October 2002 - against the modern Porsche 911 Carrera (992)! Make sure you are subscribed for more 20th anniversary shoot-outs coming soon!
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Make sure you're subscribed for more 20th anniversary shoot-outs coming soon!
Yes more of this! Saw a Z in it... Better be one of them lol
Guys it makes 440 stock, and Carrera S does 520, Porsche lies about the numbers ;)
We still want to see a shootout between the 996 Turbo vs the 992 Turbo S (just for laughs, since we already know the results)
@@8359s Why would Porsche under value it's power? Surely they'd do the opposite?
@@sukhdevr3489 Don't know why, but now they do in case of 992, this is also the case regarding Macan S/GTS, they are also doing the same with 0-60 times but for much longer.
The 996 Turbo has a timeless look, can't believe it's already 20 years old
Maybe its just because I was a kid when this model came out but I simply ADORE the front fascia on the 996 turbo.
Same, it's my 2nd favorite 911 of all time after the 996 GT3.
996 Turbo is still a great looking car in my (unpopular) opinion
Probably the best value in super cars today
@@jimsteinway695 eh, a lot less so now at these current prices 😬
It’s definitely grown into its looks! Something the 992 can only hope for!
@@jameswillard1 what you say the average price is for one of these in today's standards?
And what'd it actually worth?
I think it looks better than every 911 that came afterwards. The best thing the new ones have going is the 80s styled break light, the front is bland as f.
The difference in transmission performance alone is a massive advantage for the 992.
Is the manual box that much better?
@@jamsxr The 992 is PDK and the 996 is manual and not Tiptronic.
Yes pdk is my faster then a manual. More fun. No much less. I have both.
It won't be a proper celebration of the anniversary without Tiff.
Tiff is old enough to break a hip during automotive shenanigans..
@@Leonidae nonsense, yes he’s old but he’s still an amazing driver
Don't try to tell other people what to do.
Let haters hate the 996 so I can have a 996 Turbo S for me to love it all I want, that's how much I love the 996 generation.
It's a great car. And to be honest it's the one with the most character probably.
The 996TT hate has subsided ... prices have almost doubled in last several years.
Yeah same , I’ve had 2 of em , starting to appreciate in price now unfortunately.
@@LarryBishop69 at least that's a proof that 996 are awesome
@@lgz2006 The car was sorted when I got it and had virtually no problems during my time with them , 2006-2014.
Should have got the manuel 992 to make it a bit more comparable and fair. The PDK box makes the new ones rapid. The 0-60 on the stock carrera is actually more like 3.8 seconds with the pdk not 4.4 as stated here. Significantly faster than they let on. Its probably got more power than they are letting on too! Im sure people have dyno'd these things to confirm that and all.
The 996 has loads more character. The 992 is just as exciting as a modern fridge.
Yep
+ 996 is 100% Porsche and 992 Volkswagen 😅
Plato is great at this, zero BS.
The 996 turbo never had the fried egg headlights neither did the 996.2, it was 996.1 (non-turbo trims) that had the shape and the amber indicators gave it a fried egg look.
Thank you. They always get it wrong, and the reason people criticised the Mk1 996 3.4 is because the cheaper Boxter had the same headlights, but the Boxter never had those headlights.
Nice comparison but the 996 is on outdated rubber which makes a big difference. However I'm in no doubt the 992 is still the quicker car.
The 996 is a one of the most beautiful and distinctive bodies in all 911 history. Still love it a lot
No, its the ugliest 911. And thats a fact.
@@castroorstad8215 your momma is ugliest one, but 996 is beautiful one. It's a fact
@@pablos3563 Ha ha, you dont know that and thats a fact. 99% of people think 996 is ugly, and that is also a fact.
@@castroorstad8215 OK, you right. And now I wish you good luck on therapy in your mental hospital. Or hospice
@@castroorstad8215 talk for yourself
996 turbo still looks gorgeous
996 Turbo & 959 are my favorites 911.
Totally agree and the 996 gt2 clubsport in silver is perfect
I think I prefer the look of the 996 with the fried egg headlights and all. Its the perfect size.
I prefer the shape and look of the 996, but that's just me I suppose.
Ya. I am not seeing 3 full seconds in such a small lap. Nordschleife Times are more like 10-15 seconds difference but that is a 7 1/2 to 8 min track. Extrapolate that the way you want, but no where near this difference (and this is comparing old tire tech on the 996 vs new on the 992 which would dramatically narrow that difference). I’m not even a huge 996 fan, but this info is a little odd
I have both but let me tell you I enjoy more the 996 the 992 too much electric assistances .
Actually most of the metzger motor WAS carried over. The block still has 993 part numbers. Unlike the regular 911 water cooled motors. It was basically the air cooled motor with water jacketed heads. Much better motor than the regular 996 911. So did the GT cars. I had a 996 GT3. There were 993 part numbers (air cooled) still on the motor. That’s why the 996s weren’t total flops because the turbo and gt cars had excellent engines
That's news to me. I always thought that the M96/72 'Mezger' engines were derived from the fully-water-cooled 962 and GT1 race cars.
They did have an engine with water cooled heads and air-cooled block - in the 935/78.
I had a 996 X50 Turbo. 450hp, very capable car.
*Mezger!
The 996 TT is a bargain by today’s standards.
It was a bargain 7 years ago……bought a manual for £18k!
@@ianjames3078 fkin hell that was a bargain!
Turbo please.
Wow! I wasn’t expecting that. 60kg less, but with all the extra safety, emissions, and electronics required 2 decades later, is astonishing in itself. But for a 2WD to beat a 4WD, by that margin, and the power difference….What was most astonishing of all, was seeing Jason Plato looking a lot like Harry Enfield’s ONLY ME man 😂
The size difference is shocking!
3 seconds is significant. Hopefully the Turbo has a new set of tyres, as even 5 year old tyres can affect lap times significantly.
Really depends on how used they are
@@napalmhotdog4365 And the age, 5+yrs is hard (slippery) rubber!
996 Turbo S with good tires. Then we would see. Ceramic brakes and 50hp more. Also a 2 min cobb tune for over 500hp. Well then, newer 911 toast for sure
3 seconds on a track that short is huge. I’m not seeing that kind of delta between these variants. It does appear that the 992 is PDK. Perhaps the 996 has 20 year old tires? Let’s compare manuals AND run same exact specific tire set up. The 992 is probably still quicker, but not by that massive amount.
996 still looks the best
I'd be curious to know what tires are on the 996? And how old are they. Nevertheless, it did pretty well!! Really enjoyed the video
Agree. The 996 likely had older compound. To make the race fair both should have been fitted with new identical rubber (sans the dimensions)
@@RS-jb1lf Yes, she's on period correct tyres - it would be closer on the same tyres for sure! - Miles - HPC Classics.
@@MilesHardy My same thought - without knowing what tires the Turbo was wearing it is impossible to assess the lap times.. Modern tires vs whatever the 996 Turbo was wearing could make a huge difference.
I bet 2 out of those 3 seconds is down to suspension upgrades. Did they run the Turbo with 20 year-old tires too? LOL
Manual 996 TTs (as GT2) will explode in value imho
They already have.
Tell me about it. I owned a 996 Turbo with the X 51 package, 996 GT2, 996 GT3, 997 GT3RS, and a Carrera GT. Bought very one of them new. If I still had them I would be (on paper) much richer than I am today.
Manual vs super fast dual clutch auto is not a fair comparison. A straight line race would've been be good too. Still, enjoyed the video.
You can't get the 992 Carrera with a stick (only the Carrera T or Carrera S, if we are talking about a fairly base model). You can be lucky that it's not a 996 turbo with Tiptronic. The PDK is great, but the manual versions aren't bad either.
Mine was the 996th like!
The 996 looks better from all angles.
3 seconds in 20 years, shows you how unbelievable that 996 still is today!
It's old top spec vs current "base" model. Try bring in a 992 Turbo (or a 996 Carrera) and we'll see the different. 🙂
I guess you missed the part where Jason is driving the 2002 Turbo vs the 2022 base Carrera ("base" means the cheapest and least powerful), If he had compared the 2002 most powerful (996 Turbo) versus 2022 most powerful (992 Turbo S), you would not have written this comment.
Exactly! My Fiesta ST is less than 3 seconds slower to 60 than a Hellcat , basically nothing!
@@sidesauce but there is MUCH more performance improvement potential with the 996TT vs 992. The 996TT Mezger engine hp can easily be doubled and remain reliable... the 992 engine cannot. The performance bang for the buck is with the 996TT... a stock car with $20K of mods becomes monsterously fast.
I still prefer my 996tt but they’re all great cars... now I’ll be counting the days til track season returns😑
I just finished a comparison between a 2003 996 turbo X-50 and a 2020 992 turbo S. Both cars belong to my boss and he had me drive the one car 300 miles to his vacation home where I parked it and drove the other one 300 miles back.
I love the 996 because I had one and I’ve been caring for this one for 14 years. It’s smaller, more nimble and engaging to drive as a 6 speed manual.
However, the 992 turbo S is an amazing machine.
So fast!
So refined!
The perfect GT car!
Just two pedals. Go and stop!
The engine transmission combo work in concert that’s remarkable in that one can comfortably cruise at 100 mph and punch it for immediate acceleration! The car is so planted and delivers a heightened sense control with all the technology that makes it so.
If I could pick only one, the 996 most definitely!
That 996 Turbo looks brand new inside and out.
She's a great example - available for sale if you like it! HPC Classics
The turbo headlights are NOT the fried egg ones! Those were on the 996.1 cars: GT3 and Carreras.
I wonder what tires the Turbo had on it, that's one thing. Secondly, the driving feel in a 996 it's way better and more analog then any 992, OK, maybe a GT3 will be better. For me after 10+ years of owning a 996 Turbo there is no contest. Did I mentioned what crazy power levels can you get with a simple flash from the most iconic/ race winning-est engine in the world? (Yeah, that would be the Mezger, do the math).
The 996 has definitely aged better than JP or was this a deliberate point to make him look like a an old farmer?
Very interesting video. I love all the 911 versions. But I have a 2021 carerra specced similar to the car in the video, just added sport Chrono and the S sized wheels. It is truly wonderful. Very balanced package. All I could ever want for the road. Love it to bits.
3 seconds is impressive. That 996 is a beast.
🍎 TO 🍊
The 996 turbo in this comparison was manual, while the base 992 is dual clutch auto. Huge difference
3.6L vs 3.0L huge difference. Wonder what boost levels were on both as well as turbo size.
@@peckerpeter2078996 about 0.9 bar
Those lights look great now, as all other 911s have round lights.
But it’s hard to make up for the uninterrupted feel of the earlier Porsches. As I get on in age I’d take feel over speed every time.
Uninterrupted how exactly? Just curious what you’re referring to?
@@jameswillard1 just less nanny technology between the driver and the car which can often take away the driving feel.
@@gryphon123456 oh gotcha 👍🏻
Should we even mention the S word? Steering? The new electric steering is garbage. And when the 996 turbo is selling for $200,000 on the used market 10 years from now, the new one with the phony simulated steering and slush box will be handily depreciating.
@@Bmwguy2011 $200,000? Where? A good 996 Turbo does about 1/4 of that a great one about half. I love the 996TT (I had one, but your prices are a bit off)
996 Turbo M ❤ A ❤ N ❤ U ❤ A ❤L
Tire width and grip (because of newest tech) is the big factor.
Also what tyres are on the turbo compared to the brand new 992.
@@liamjohnhawkins4212 Completely agree. Tires can make a huge difference.
Great little video from Fifth Gear! I have to admit that the 996 has aged well and has grown into its looks, as for the 992…..maybe we will be saying the same thing in 20 years time? Looks wise, the rear end is voluptuous, sadly, in a Kardashian kind of way; they’ve both overdone it a little! Also, the silhouette of the 992 has gone a little too much Cayman for my liking!
I don't care but I love the front end of the 996 mk2.
That was awesome! Love watching Jason flog those 911s around! Such great cars! I’d happily take either of those!
So many things are wrong on that video when you want to compare time for time... BUT, what I see is how incredible a 20 years 9ld car hold on compared to a 2022 911... Beautiful !
If someone as experienced as Jason excites something, You know that this is special
Chevrolet Corvette since 1953 , is actually the longest continuous sports car line . Just saying. P.S I’m not a Yank either 😂😂😂😂😂
Wheres Tiff?
No Tiff, bye bye F. Gear
Excellent. I’ve a 996 Turbo pushed to 500 bhp. Mind you, I can’t afford a 992. For £90k you can get a 991 Turbo which would be my choice at that price. My 996 cost £110k new. It’s cost me about £38k all in over three years.
Old car is cheaper than brand new car shocker!
Paid £18k 7 years ago……they really shot up after that.
20 year old tyres on that 996TT?? Or new? Can't take this very serious without that kind of information....
20yr old tyres in the UK, with our heat cycles? They would be perished and delaminated. They must have recent rubber on that 996 just for safety's sake?
That 996 being a nearly 20 years old, must have lost a lot of horsepower, 996 with some light tuning vs actual 992 may be a much more interesting fight.
Modern tires + pdk = most of those three seconds
I doubt the 996 was on 20 year old tyres 😂
Hardly a surprising result. The base PDK car driven would gain half a car length for each gearchange in comparison to the 20yr old manual. The interesting question is:- On the short circuit driven, how many gearchanges did the 992 base PDK make? Multiply that number by 2M and was that the distance the PDK finished ahead of the manual 996 Turbo? A very poor "review" by 5th Gear who do know better.
was the 996 not a manual and the 992 a PDK ?
Jason unsurprisingly knows what he's talking about. As unloved as the 996 is by so-called Porschephiles, the driving dynamics and especially the steering are brilliant. Those Porschephiles who only care about resale value don't know anything about actual driving.
More context on how cars have evolved in 20 years - Steve Sutcliffe put an i30n and i20n around the same circuit: 47.1 for the i30n, 47.3 for the i20n. I absolutely adored the turbo back in the day (would still happily have one) but that's some serious progress. Cheers to the engineers everywhere!
Porsche 996 type Best 911 Design model.991 992 997 Ugly old school model
Do they use the similar tires?
The 996 has more charm (IMHO); i love the 996 headlights.
Can you run a 996 GT3 vs the base 992 as well, pls?
No mention of the Le Mans winning Mezger motor in the 996 Turbo?
One of the greatest engines of all time.
Also, no mention of the fact that that 996 Turbo is effectively 2/3rds of a 959, except in a better looking body shell, that is much stiffer than the ancient and ugly 959.
Also, no mention of how mind-bogglingly stupid it is to have round headlights with 4 rectangular LEDs in them!
Why?
My 2003 996 Turbo with the factory X50 power kit option (with the factory K24 turbos) is lightly modified. It is at the 600 HP point, a far cry from the 420 HP produced from the smaller K16 turbos. It likely would blow away the 2022 Carrera, at least on the straightaways.
Do you mean straights?
@@Stlol66 YES
The 996 is a manual car, vs a PDK 992. So really unfair comparison.
Too factors into the equation: track, rubber, asphalt conditions, transmission and so on. You simply go for the 996 turbo because it has loads more character … and steering feel. My 2 cents 🙏
You couldn’t have got a manual Carrera? Manual vs PDK of the exact same car would produce a similar result.
Manual vs PDK…come on guys, do some basic like for like, gives the older cars a fighting chance
To not even reference tyres is pretty rookie guys.... 20 years tyre development will be at least half that lap time, and thats assuming the 996 is on rubber of a similar age to the 991 (almost definitely the 996's tyres will be several years old).
Love the look of the 996 turbo but the GR Yaris did a 47.15 (in the shootout video v the evo). Amazing that a £30k hot hatch can beat a supercar from 20 years ago!
only 60kgs lighter despite being 2wd now thats 20 years of "progress" 😂😂👌👌
Take the manual turbo all day. Much more analog.
Loved it, as 996 turbo owner, I am shocked how slow my car is.
It is absolutely NOT slow
@@fruitking6916 difference mostly due to manual vs Pfk
@@xliu37 Plus tires - we know what the new car was wearing - but the 996?
These 996 lights arent fried eggs! The lights before this facelift were, these lights looks okay!
That 2002 911 looks better than the newer one imo.
She's availble to buy if you like her! HPC Classics.
YES, The newer ones looks more like a sport Beetle.
@@johnsmith-xw4ez yeah you said…about 10 times. Change the record pal.
@@MilesHardy I'm only 20 and haven't even passed my test lol. Would need a lot more for a classic 911.
Would be amazing to see an apples for apples with the turbo 992
modern tires/wheels on the 996 would immediately change things. this is from experience. And get the seven speed 992 if you want me to consider apples/apples.
but respectable for a twenty year old car.
The most important stat is the price for each adjusted for inflation for each car...prices have inflated to a point of diminishing returns. I think older cars are better bang for the buck.
Thanks for doing this video, so often I hear - well you can always buy the bargain priced based Carrera, as if to make it sound like you are buying a tricked out Toyota Prius. Let’s recognize the Carrera for what it is, a great sports car for daily driving and weekend cruise. Sure you can buy the GT cars or the new Turbo, but unless you live near an Autobahn or plan to take them to a track, the vast majority will never experience the capabilities of those cars. Let’s face it you need 100 mph + to truly feel the effects of the aero on a GT car. I’ve owned the GT and Carreras, what remains in the garage are the Carreras with a vintage 911 to spice it up a bit.
What really surprises me is the lap time of the 996. The 996 owners club had a track day at Llandow a few years ago and Gemma did a 49 second lap in a C4 tip convertible. Really surprised to see that a professional driver can only nock less than 2 seconds off that’s driving a turbo.
Bit moist lap here...
@@onehorsepower it was wet the day we were there as well. It’s wales what do you expect?
Skip to 3 minutes in you will see what I mean.
ua-cam.com/video/tbJvVNRgbTY/v-deo.html this is from when we were all out early in the day learning the track the fast laps where when there weren’t loads of cars out at once
Same tyres?
2 seconds is an eternity on a 49 second lap
@@technom3598 I agree 2 seconds is a bug gap on a small track but Jason Plato is a professional racing driver and you would expect a professional racing driver who has won the British touring car championship more than once to be much faster than a project manager from Plymouth if they were driving the same car but add in that he has a turbo with over 100bhp more plus better brakes suspension and being a coupe not a convertible so should handle better you would have thought there would be a much bigger gap.
Bring back Tiff.
Pay him a lot.
Not BBC Clarkson lots,
But, be kind.
Give him a 2 year contract.
So a 2022 Toyota Yaris GR 1.6 is faster than a 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.6 round this track. That' illustrates how far car tech has come in 20 years.
price is big subject here, time of "cheap" 996 and 997 are long gone, and so is dream of average working guy owning porsche 😂👌
Jason: "Listen to that engine!"
Editor: *Immediately plays loud music so we can't hear the engine*
Regret selling my 996 turbo
On a slow track like this, the wider track, lighter weight and faster transmission will make a huge difference. The comments re tires are speculation.
Shame the 992 was on PZERO'S .....
Look at the difference in size...
Throw a tune on that 996 (which in my opinion every single one needs) I think they might be crossing the line same time. I have a 2002 996 turbo tune and catless exhaust. I was pulling away from a 992 carrera on roll race.
Same here, even when I was untuned with just a catless exhaust I walked one down like it was standing still. With the tune done, it is a nightmare for all who don't know what it is capable of doing.
The old vs new concept is great and the point taken. New IS better than old but we knew that right? That said, the transmission and tires may have played a large roll in this as the 996 has a HP advantage is is AWD. It should have done better.
Try the 996 Turbo S. More power, ceramic brakes.
Should have been 2002 turbo v 2020 turbo. Like for like.
Its funny how people still are triggered by the fried egg headlights. They have grown on me a bit in all honesty. I own a 986 Boxster S and its aged fairly well. Fun cars and priced inexpensively...for now.
992 Carrera is bloated and characterless. Rather save £50k and buy a VW Golf R. 996 Turbo all the way!
Can we stop comparing new car MSRP prices with old car MSRP prices as if inflation doesn't exist? If you don't have 200k now then you didn't have 100k back in 2002 lol
need for speed 5 vibes