Hi everyone! There is a slight frame stutter in the beginning that I wasn't able to remove. It only impacts about 3 seconds, but I wanted to let you know that it isn't you... it's me.
Yeah, as others have noted, I’d be interested in seeing a few mini-bus circulators out of those bus terminals - something that stays in the neighborhood.
As a mariner, nothing drives me more crazy in Cities: Skylines than the super tall piers/docks/quays/vessel berths that end up being taller than the entire ship docking there. It looks so spectacularly unrealistic that it breaks any sort of immersion for me. A dock should be at or near-ish the level of the deck of the vessel, which means the only way to build a semi-believable marine service in Skylines is to make sure you start building at JUST above the height of the waterline. And sorry: I know that's not what the video is about. I just couldn't help commenting after seeing the pier at the beginning.
@@nicolasblume1046 True. It is just that most people plop the things from 200m bird view to the ground ..while NOT looking at a cliff's actual height from the ground perspective. CPP is very guilty of that ;D
One thing I miss about the old bus system was that the service was more for first and last mile rides. I think the current system is great, but it be nice to consider those kinds of commutes in the next episode
Busses are my favourite type of transport in the game. They're so flexible because if theres a road a bus can get to it. The workshop is also loaded with higher capacity busses and the base game finally has some too from the Airport DLC. Also very early to unlock. Ps. I know Verde Beach is mostly Vanilla, but have you thought of using the AutoLineColor mod for your cities? Might save some time and will make new lines instantly easier to see for us viewers.
Yeah. Asset developers have made some ridiculous vehicles. There’s a double-decker bi-articulated bus that holds 290 passengers (Roadwhale by Rev0). There are long, double-decker trams that can hold up to 630 passengers (Railwhale, also by Rev0). There are even metro vehicles that can hold 1200 passengers, though at least that’s more realistic.
Hey Phil, I absolutely love this. Busses always felt a bit like an afterthought but this is so good laid out! I only think some more local routes would be good, this network is essentially just a connecting network and not so much a coverage network. In some areas it is still a bit sparse and quite a walk for some folks. But all in all I think this is a massive step forward :)
I noticed during the Road Diet episode you didnt add a bus lane road to Sterling Zoo boulevard because it didnt have a bus route, which was integral to early transit in Verde Beach. I thought at the time because it had metro it may have been an extra expense. But really pleased that was rectified in this episode with Bus Route 4 and expanded the route to include more attractions, would be worthy of a dedicated bus lane now. Definitely love transit episodes and these new routes definitely have more thought and care put into them, getting more trips with nearly 30 less routes is seriously impressive! Great job! Looking forward to the next episode and smashing the previous number! Edit: just seen Route 6 (Zues) goes alongside the VBFD Firemen Park from episode 24 (how time flies!) & could turnaround closer to the Dark Blue Metro Line potentially for another targeted connection?
No no no... I'd torch the buses and use subways and/or cable cars. Buses already cause a total mess on city streets. They are self policed which means they don't care what they hit and they will run you off the road now. They are too privileged now! Where I lived they wrecked into each other as well as hitting their own street level light rail cars. Being self policed is truly messed up. Even the city police pull them over after a chase. They need policing by the German Gestapo and I wouldn't use a taser on there damn drivers, I'd use a cattle prod on them before beating them. Mini buses I could deal with. They are a different breed of drivers that actually drive with care.
It was awesome to get an insight into transit planning, I think that's how you've drawn a lot of us non-planners into not just the channel, but the whole of planning. I think realistically you'd have wanted to rework routes in areas a few at a time. So for example working in Old Verde Beach you'd still keep the previous bus routes across the river so that service is continuously maintained. However, these overhaul episodes are amazing!
gotta salute you for this episode. I had to redo my entire cities bus network recently and it was one of the most mentally taxing things I've done in the game lol. there is so much to keep track of and give consideration to
Yes! This is how bus route design actually works. It always frustrates me to see people make these winding nonsensical circulator routes with their bus lines. I get that in the game it may work, but that's not how buses work in the real world.
You mentioned at roughly 48 minutes that the shuttle concept was difficult, but didn't the content creator pack come with the little mini bus that could act like a worker shuttle? Also, don't forget the little local route you had around the temple, help keep it accessible!
The main issue is the capacity and the amount of passengers routes draw. I wish there was a way to draw fewer passengers at routes that have less capacity. In reality, if you knew a route was going to be more comfortable due to more capacity, you might contemplate taking that route over a lower capacity route. The game prioritizes directness/ theoretical speed over all else.
@@CityPlannerPlays in this case, when you draw a long route, aren't you making bus preferable to mass transit? If people have to walk less to a bus stop, they'll always choose what is closer? If so, I would try making small, circular routes with shuttles within neighborhoods to/from a mass transit station and they wouldn't overlap
@@CityPlannerPlays It would make sense to upgrade all the busiest roads where buses travel to roads with bus lanes because the super bendy bus is basically too long for a bus stop.
Great episode and great set of rules in the beginning. What I really missed was a more complete approach reviewing all modes of transit from high- to low-capacity - 41:43 this red metro line could have a fill-in stop before the river; 24:42 Vine St metro (green) and the red train line could have a transfer ... with this high- to low-capacity approach you have a stable system of high-capacity lines and design the bus network in a non-cannibalizing way. Time and time again I had the impression that cannibalization is worse in the game than in reality because the algorithm seems to put too much weight on the path from home to bus stop / metro station /... and hardly recognizes the quicker ride with the fast vehicle. You should check whether overcrowding issues mainly happen in these duplicating sections of the bus lines and maybe that is also where metro ridership has declined. Maybe all bus lines should get rid of the stops near the metro plaza where so many lines converge and there are high-capacity stops everywhere ...
Boy, it's difficult to fault our host for anything. I love his videos. He's not just good, he's damn good. I fault the game for not allowing you to open access to the beaches first so you can get water, sewage and fugly ships out of the way. Passenger ships/boats, parks, walk ways (even dog parks on parts... as well as a nude beach) and tall hotels should be on the beach and the fugly stuff out of sight. Mass transit to the beaches should be by cable car or subways to avoid the clutter and eye sores. Buses just don't belong cluttering up the best part of your town. If the developers allowed you access to all the beach front properties (right away) then you can get all the fugly stuff away for the pretty beaches and not clutter them up so soon with such things as shipping freight and all water treatment facilities. The mods go very well with this game and I would cheat with mods to overcome protecting my beaches first. Other than that, even the coders did well. Glad they allowed for mods.
Been waiting for this episode for a while, Verde certainly needed the change in bus routes to help move people about and take advantage of all the fantastic road network changes that have happened over the past few episodes.
I really like the complete overhaul, rethinking the lines in compliance with how the city has evolved, and getting rid of redundant or obsolete lines. :) I wouldn't put too great emphasis on the numbers, it's natural the other forms of transport gets less popular as the bus system starts to make more sense, and I'm sure it will balance out in the end.
Great video. Perhaps some of the longer routes that mirror the subway could be split so that sims would be forced to transfer to complete the route. This may encourage the sims to look for the higher capacity metro. Also I feel sorry the poor passengers on the intercity bus service being stuck behind the super bendy local service 😂😂
Tip 1: don’t put stops near the end of a block, because the buses may start queueing and block the intersection. That happened to me in busy lines. Tip 2: there is a 6 lane road with bus lanes and trees on the sidewalk. It helps with the noise. Also I don’t think complementary services are bad when there is demand for it. We have a avenue here in São Paulo, that’s has a subway under and bus corridor above and they’re both very busy.
I used the Mini Bus vehicle type to create shuttle services in one of my cities. Basically went from a metro station, to a theme park and looped around a hotel area.
Agreed 110%! Big buses and their drivers are very dangerous and cause too much congestion and they all drive as though it were their last day on earth.
Yeah but sometimes my buses tend to get much higher usage than i expected and then, i tend to have big buses just because the bigger the buses you use, the less buses you need to use, the less it will cost you,
This was a great idea! Line 10 could actually decrease from 200% to 100% because of the fewer passengers at each stop. I noticed that the monorail route ends at very central points where you have bus routes in each end which are continueing the same allyways, so maybe you should look at the monorail and continue the monorail line a bit at each end. Also, realistically, super bendy buses need great turning points or roundabouts for the buses to turn at their end stations, so some places which are not a terminal would need turning points for the bendybuses.
I finally caught up with the whole Verde Beach series yesterday and was actually quite sad when I realised I'd come to the end after an intense week or so of bingeing it, so I was so glad to see this today. Your channel is genuinely my favourite thing on UA-cam, so calming, entertaining, informative and fun. I'm from London in the UK so a lot of the transit choices you make in this series are so different to how we do things over here, but it's fascinating to see the city evolve, and I'm excited to be able to keep up to date with it now I'm all caught up though.
Yup, I hate getting to the end of his video series. I find myself watching them nearly almost repeatedly. Wished water sewage/water intake/cleaning were always out of sight leaving the sandy beaches opened to subways, public parks, passenger ships, private boating and huge public parks (lastly, high rises). Sandy beaches should be left pristine, the very most valued property of any city. If I had no budget to mess with, the first underground level would go to our guest such as yourself so you have your own level to drive on the wrong (side of the road). Here in the US we use the left side of the road for passing and trying to hit people head-on at high speeds. :) In the country of Texas, driving is a high impact sport. Come visit when you can!
Long time watcher of your vids man, first time commenter. Wanted to gift some wisdom I’ve noticed: so when you increase the amount of buses that really only effects the budget and of course the amount of buses on the road but once you’ve run the simulation a bit it levels out - that’s a good time to also consider changing the buses back to more moderate sizes, and that helps your traffic. Instead of a big ole swinging booty hanging out the back, slim them back down and find a happy medium: that’ll help the traffic behind the bus pass, especially in areas with bus lanes or higher density traffic. Better traffic, fewer buses, better budget, better city!
Love this! Sensible public transit is one of my favorite things to do in Cities Skylines along with naming the routes (as asinine as THAT may seem). You gotta make sure to add Trolleybuses to the Palma Del Fuego so you can cross "all modes of transit" off your Verde Beach completion list!
The Vengabus is coming And everybody's jumping New York to San Francisco An intercity disco The wheels of steel are turning And traffic lights are burning So if you like to party Get on and move your body
City/Urban planning has always fascinated me. Living in Hong Kong, you can imagine it being quite an important job. Learned SO MUCh from your videos, it's really interesting. Almost makes me want to go back to study an Urban management degree..!
I've never been this early to an upload before so I wanted to thank you for all the work you put into your content. You've helped me put a lot more thought into the way I build my cities and it's made the game way, way more satisfying. Efficient bus routes/public transit are my achille's heel so it's always great to watch you work on transport networks. Thanks for everything you've done for the community!
i love transportation and traffic fixing episodes, that to me is the best part of any cities skylines series. and because you have real life experience, its interesting to see how a pro handles traffic and public transit. look forward to the next one!!!
Damn I love public transport so much. I think you did a good (and necessary) job. I think that, once the other side is done, all transit will be much better overall
47:50 While maybe not the most realistic, in the context of the game, it might just be worth extending the monorail to that little industrial offshoot. Also, for the decreased metro and train utilization, is it possible that those means of transport are now suffering overcrowding causing the residents to just pass up on them?
at 11:18 you still have people on your buses as a count, is this maybe the fireside heights tour and the other bus tours you have around the city, as well as the intercity buses. I remember a video of yours a long time ago which mentioned buses every 3 blocks, tram every 6, subway every 12 and rail every 24. If you watch the AoE of smiles every time you place a stop it is about a 1.5 to 2 block radius from the stop, meaning you could place a bus every 3 or 4 blocks in the game and have the AoE's not over lap. Thoroughly enjoyable video. Also you mention 13km for a bus route being long, growing up in Europe I am used to buses that do a 40 mile circular route, 13km seems nothing haha.
Couple of things. I may be wrong, but I think the Siemper Verde bus line is misspelled? Also, at about 49:16, it looks like just east of Old Verde Beach is flooding. Bus related - the new route map looks good! I wonder if the reduction in metro usage is because of parallel routing, except the bus getting people farther than the metro without needing transfers?
I’ve been waiting for this episode for awhile and it didn’t disappoint. AND it’s going to be a two parter! Love the changes and they’re all logical. Plan on doing something similar with my own city which is approaching 80,000 residents and seems to have our grown it’s old bus routes as well. Great video, CPP.
Reserve your beach fronts for large parks, passenger ships, subways (and high rise hotels) and private boating. Get the fugly plumbing out of sight as well as container ships and freight. Our host does awesome work.
Excellent work, Phil. The overhaul is better as evident by the continually increasing ridership, VB out grew the legacy lines and it was indeed the time for the overhaul. Looking forward to part two. I wish vanilla had proper BRT bus stops and more integrated hubs.
Hey Phil, Superb episode! I've been waiting for this overhaul of the bus system for a while now, so great that it's finally happening! I do have one issue with the Semreverde line, though. It passes by the bus metro hub in the old lumber area as well as the bus interchange near the station across the river. On top of that, it allows access to the restricted neighbourhood. I would like to suggest the following fix: End Semreverde at the bus-metro stop, start a new line there that goes to the train station across the river and finally create a new route from that station to the restricted neighbourhood. This allows for a better management of the number of buses on the three different parts of the route. I see this quite often in real life, that some bus lines have a 15 minute service on some parts of the route, but then only a 30 minute service on other parts of the route. Basically, every other bus will turn back after a certain stop, while the others go on to the final stop of the line. Would love to see this reflected in the game 😊 Either way, I'm looking forward to the next episode!
Great video and great network design! I know you're focused on buses right now, but I think it would make sense to add a metro connection across the river to connect the white and red lines, which are both currently spurs. There's bus and ferry service right there, but spur lines always underperform and you could probably save some transfers onto the Sempreverde bus line, which has enough going for it as it is.
Many areas now don't have enough coverage! This is probably the reason why the usage got down a bit first. Some shorter local lines that serve as feeder lines for higher modes would absolutely make sense. And some additional direct lines. Oder people can't easily walk 3 or 4 blocks. The new smaller bus models would be perfekt for this (or just Standard buses)
I agree to a point. Standard buses are accidents causing collisions and traffic. Most city bus drivers act/drive as though its their last day on earth. Mini buses are safer allowing handicap riders better access to transportation (I'm handicapped). The best if affordable would be subways and/or cable cars... cable cars topographically infrequent and impractical to use in most areas. Subways, not so much, but expensive. The expense is caring for the local water tables building and maintaining them going forward.
In every video, I always learn so much about the logistics of real-world city design, and why different amenities/ features might appear in a city. THANK YOU for sharing your expertise CP! 🙏🏾
I love the redesign, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to do this with a city of this size. The one thing about the change that I dislike is the usage of buses for the very long line down the Sempeverde. Personally I would use a Monorail or maybe a Tram for a line that long with that much rider ship. But then again my cities are never this big and I tend to redesign the entire transit system all at once, which - again - with a city your size would be a 5 episode undertaking and not pausing would definitely cause chaos if you just ripped out everything and rebuilt it.
Couldn't agree more. Just hide the mass transit underground. He does well though. If I were planning my city, my peeps would die before I could open another tile.
Great episode as always ;) I recommend that for some of the lines where you have Super-Bendy Buses you take just bendy buses instead; notice how during the bus tour every time the super-bendy bus would make a stop it's so long that it congests the entire bus-lane; plain bendy-buses don't do that. Yeah it's a loss of 30 passengers per bus but it would help you if you ever wanna optimize traffic and it'll allow you to clear queues faster.
Absolutely fantastic episode! My only wish is that you'd made more use of the hubs. Like there's a monorail bus hub near Vine street that has no buses coming to it. And the Sempreverde route could've ended at the Lewis metro-bus hub and been continued by another route (like you mentioned with interlining). Aside from that though, the whole redesign was really interesting and great to watch. Keep up the good work!
Not surprised deleting the bus routes didn't do much. A lot of locations in verde beach are well served by higher capacity modes of transit and Cims are happy to walk or cycle a long way to get to something like a subway. When you remove a bus route that provides access to the subway, the Cims don't start taking their cars to their destination in en-mass, but will just take a different way to get to the station. Verde beach also had a lot of bus routes providing local coverage (that white route at the start...), instead of really connecting different areas of the city, and many of the routes that provided more connection mirrored subways, or were along lower traffic corridors. The first set was mostly replacing walking routes, and anything replaced by car trips isn't going to generate traffic flow issues; it doesn't hit any of he materials and probbaly doesn't hit many important collectors either. The last two would have turned into subway useage, and traffic on those lower useage roads respectively. Cims being such fitness focused people makes evaluating how well transit is working really hard. High ridership means you're replacing trips, but doesn't mean your replacing car trips. A lot of real world logic and assumptions about accessibility breaks down in the face of grandma's insistence on walking everywhere. High ridership can perversely make traffic worse The fact you've gotten more ridership with a quarter of the lines is probbaly a good sign, but the only thing that really works is sitting down with the route tool and a lot of experimentation with assumptions about where those routes started.
It's interesting to me comparing how you talk about buses to how they work in my city. We have really long bus routes with the same name/number all the way and nobody gets confused about it.
I noticed that your first bus route goes right by the bike path. I'm not sure if people will bike to then take the bus, but if they do, creating bike connections between the stops and the path could be really interesting!
Idk why but buses are one of my favorite things to watch in my city. I get excited when my population is high enough to mess around with them so this video was fun
Great great episode! I’d be slightly cautious about using super bendy busses everywhere as they will almost always overhang the running lane at a stop which could increase traffic. Also, biofuel buses would be good on the local routes as I believe they are quieter.
1. This was crazy satisfying 2. Verde Beach really feels... modern? Cleaned up, maybe? I just love the vibe of cities that take pride in a robust public transit system
Impressive! Inevitably, I reach a point in my cities when bus routes need redistribution. I dislike this chore so much, I do as Phil did. Axe them all at once.
@Paul Moore you can thank the oil industry, they’ve lobbied against public transit so they can have more and more people spend money on the gas for driving their own vehicles
For some reason the transit redo's are my favorite episodes. I guess I'm just more statistical than I thought. I would love to see maybe a monorail check considering the new developments/areas.
Loved it! I loved transportation but once I started watching you in late 2020/2021 I got so much more interested in transport and city planning. You have also got me into playing cities skylines! Keep it up!
One of the challenges that exists with transit planning is that you have to work with the city that you have rather than the city you want. It’s seems like you’ve addressed most of those. A couple of things that I didn’t see or maybe you deliberately dropped was ensuring that facilities like hospitals, schools, elder care and community centres were not connected. These are places where many service recipients cannot drive and cannot walk to far to reach. I realise that there are game mechanics issues at play. Another thing that you addressed was doing away with local routes. You are rightly concerned with putting people on collectors and increasing transfer points, but there is value in local money-losing collector routes. A lot of suburban routes are busy 6-9 and 3-6. The game doesn’t account for it. I don’t have any real solutions, so thanks for the videos and I look forward to the next one.
Certainly a nice improvement :) I did notice at least one line, but maybe some others as well, that went pretty close by some bus-stations, but then passed them by (I believe especially the Semper Verde line, near the bridge). Might be nice to route these via the bus stations that they are near by?
Actually, pretty sure that some traffic issues are going to appear exactly by the new bus lanes affecting the throughput capacity of roads. Because the brand new shiny super bendy buses are really going to block your roads elsewhere they appear. They seem ridicilousIy bulky on narrow local streets. I think, there is more reasonable way to not just decrease the amount of buses if they not so neccessary, but decrease the very size of those buses) Maybe add some double-decker buses for diversity. Best wishes)
You just saved me from a mental breakdown. I had to do a fresh install of windows and lost ALL of my cities skylines saves. including the 400 hours spent just building VB alone. Then I remembered you add your save file to the workshop. Thank you. Thank you so much. I was able to get VB back.
A couple more vertical bus lines would probably be enjoyed by the citizens, while the horizontal is certainly well taken care of with these adjustments
I really love VB! It feels like a place, a real city where people live. Hope your inspiration keeps coming and that this series keeps going for a long time :)
Looks amazing! Maybe run a double check on stops and connections, I noticed at least one stop on Kellerhouse didn't have pedestrian connections to the stops. Some lines also had a bit many stops around the end of the lines bunched up, maybe you solved that already, but just in case you didn't. I think the area of Government district and the area between that and the National park could benefit from an East-West route through the new road over the old train lines. And Finally, I think many more of your chosen roads could pretty easily survive road diets as well. Excited to see what you come up with with the metro to combat the bus lines competing with that now :DD
I loved this episode! I think it might be prudent to play around with the various bus types depending on the capacity of the various lines instead of just putting a bendy on them all! There's also a minibus that you could use for "shuttle" services for different industrial parks to serve as employee buses? I think that could be a good compromise 😊
it may be in the next episode but i was wondering if you were going to be building a point to point bus stops at each of the terminals i.e. downtown to the intercity terminal. but those routes may be a bit redundant but it would a route that would be planned irl i think.
For some reason, this episode makes me want to see you tackle a map consisting of a lot of medium sized islands, with airships as part of the public transit. Not sure why. Anyway, a thought about bus routes: I live in a greater metropolitan area, and I'm used to there being two general types of bus routes. First, there are local buses, which typically bounce between two or three subway or commuter rail stops. These routes tend to have many stops, and serve to collect/disperse passengers for the faster modes of transport. They provide local coverage. Second, there are the medium distance buses, which usually connect a number of larger transit hubs such as commuter rail. E.g., if your commuter rail looks like the spokes of a wheel, these bus lines connect the spokes laterally. Such lines tend to cover longer distances and have fewer stops. In fact, they typically _only_ stop where they can transfer passengers to a subway or commuter rail. They provide connectivity. The bus lines you build here kind of seem to try and fill both of these roles at once: they are long, but they have frequent stops at least in some areas, and connect to both large and small transit hubs. This is _not_ a complaint. I just think it's interesting to see how your build, based on your professional experience, differs from my personal experience as a passenger. Edit: I've now seen that other commenters have had the same thought: your network has very good connections, but it looks a bit thin on the coverage. I don't know if that's an oversight on your part, or if I have an incomplete understanding of how the game calculates coverage.
Yes - that's absolutely how many systems are designed. There are a few different ways to do it - focusing on either coverage or ridership or a mixture of both. The problem with CS is that all routes become ridership routes - regardless of the reason they are designed. I did also space things a bit more than I would in reality to factor for the distance that cims are willing to walk. Demographics do play a significant factor in reality that have no impact in CS. I'd love to see this in a mod or follow up to the game, though - shorter walking distances required for older residents!
Hi, I just wanted to say, I'm finally caught up with the series after binge watching the old episodes the last few weeks and it's awesome to now see progress in real time, keep up the great work!
Why don't you connect run a train to the intercity bus terminal? For people entering from outside, intercity bus > train > any large area > local bus > walking > destination. Also, the Myrtle Gardens bus route winds around before terminating at the myrtle gardens bus depot. I think people from the industrial park could want the green line. If the Myrtle Gardens line first went to the bus depot and then went around, it would place the green line connection in the middle of the route reducing passengers on each side. At least that what I'm imagining would happen :)
Note: In some cities like San Francisco really large bus lines giving example 14-Mission, it also has a Rapid service called 14R, this is due to many people often going from one big place to another. 14 is the most popular route in SF. the MTA (municipal transit association) knows that there will be a high demand for people to live in massive ditricts and work inother large district. I recommend in the future to maybe add rapid lines if your longer routes go bismal
That's a good point! Where I live, some bus routes have that kind of "doubling up" as well. Typically, it's a bus that only travels during morning and afternoon rush, skipping all but the most used stops to help with commuter traffic. I don't know if Cities: Skylines mechanics can simulate that kind of thing very well, or if creating a "rapid" version of a bus route would just add to the traffic, but it would be interesting to find out.
Would love to see this line update for all the other modes of transport, but especially the metro system, since big cities often dig new tunnels every once in a while to make the system more logical
Change is good. As a city grows, the transportation system needs to adapt. So I think this reworking of the bus routes was a very good thing and the new ones look pretty good. I'm just worried about that really long on that is 20 km. It seems this one should be broken into several individual routes that share stops for easy transfers.
Looking at the long routes, I remember there was a bus line that went from Downtown Salt Lake City to downtown Ogden, 40 miles of bus route through like 5 different cities.
I always wanted to do this in my city, but never really got over the fear of making it worse. Your set of rules and seeing this episode helped a lot getting over that thought and planning to try it now. As usual magnificient content!
This is one of my favorite recent episodes of yours. I spend teh entire week looking forward to your videos, I watch them at work, I watch them at home. Love the content please keep up the excellent work.
There is a monorail-bus hub near downtown that is now useless. You should add a bus lane there or change it to a normal station to get space for a park or an office
I think it would also make sense to have a couple of the bus routes interface with the Monorail bus hub on Sunset for transfers. After all, that's what it's there for! :D
think the issue with your busses 'canibalizing ' other services is that you are still replacing them, think it might be better to have a few high capacity lines with fewer stops that cross the entire city or go from and to a 'high capacity' transport option hub where both are not connected yet. and then along the long lines you have district busses that cover the district and connect to each other on the end of them. so the citizens could go bus train bus bus on their transit instead of having them use many different ones. cities here do it like that with a long intercity bus with fewer stops on the main road but its in an area where there is no train coverage or other transport. and district lines should be high number of low capacity busses so they dont take up much of a lane road. in dence areas espacially the distance between busstops can be less then 200m . should look at this like electricity instalation. line that enters house and carries most is the most direct from a to b and along the way subsystems are placed for lower capacity but to make sure you reach everywhere
The highly used lines could be candidates for a tram or trolleybus upgrade. The usage could make the spending for additional infrasstructure reasonable
It was good that you removed all bus routes and started again as the city has grown and changed, so the old bus routes didn't make sense anymore and needed to change with the times.
Very cool! I think there were some areas that are less served than before because of the removal of the circulator and last mile routes. I also think some of semperverde should be put back to 4 lanes
Just got done watching the stream from the other day where you filled out the stadium district in Clearwater County. Just wanted to drop in to say that if you're being accurate with the flags in that district, there should be an American flag somewhere inside the stadium for the anthem. As always, everything looks great!!
Love the video, designing transit is one of my favourite things about this game. For the Sempreverde line, I think it would make sense both for realism and the game mechanics to break the line at the city limits. In most places I've been, transit agencies tend to end service at/near city lines.
Change semperverde to a metro or monorail or a tram. From what I remember in vanilla tram has higher capacity so the number vehicles would be reduced. But with over a 1k people it seems like it needs to be upgraded. Also Vancouver has quite frequent skytrain stops (a lot of times 500-750 meters apart) so a metro doesn’t mean lack in accessibility. Lastly, the free public transport policy will increase ridership. So maybe at the very end?
I actually tried redesigning bus and tram Lines like you did. My record before was about 1900 with 20 Lines. With this tutorial I've managed to reach 1400 with JUST 9 LINES...and there's still room for improvement!
I love that you made busses the local version of the subway then you were surprised it took away people 😂 if you are on a local bus or train and it only saves you a couple minutes why get off?
I personally think that going from scratch is the best way because you can't always remember how the old routes were thought to work. On this line, to keep the idea in the beginning to have more often busses but longer walk distances, you can downgrade to a lower capacity bus and increase the number of buses on the ruby line
Bsuses are nice and the upgrade/refo of the network quite necessary, but what is about (Myrtle Garden) Tram extions towards the mall and sportd campus and probably even further (towards Sterling or the other Campus Part on Palme del Fuego?). And getting rid of some of the forced transfers in the metro system wouldn't be bad, either.
Hi everyone! There is a slight frame stutter in the beginning that I wasn't able to remove. It only impacts about 3 seconds, but I wanted to let you know that it isn't you... it's me.
Yeah I saw it too
OH MY GOD THIS IS A VERY BIG MISTAKE ANd- nah just kidding, didn't even notice, you are forgiven
The title has a typo...
You know what actually has a decent bus network is San Francisco and we would always refer to the bus lines by the number only.
I'm interested in how the changes to the bus system affected the city budget.
I've got you in the next one!
Yeah, as others have noted, I’d be interested in seeing a few mini-bus circulators out of those bus terminals - something that stays in the neighborhood.
As a mariner, nothing drives me more crazy in Cities: Skylines than the super tall piers/docks/quays/vessel berths that end up being taller than the entire ship docking there. It looks so spectacularly unrealistic that it breaks any sort of immersion for me. A dock should be at or near-ish the level of the deck of the vessel, which means the only way to build a semi-believable marine service in Skylines is to make sure you start building at JUST above the height of the waterline. And sorry: I know that's not what the video is about. I just couldn't help commenting after seeing the pier at the beginning.
We all have little things in games that bother us due to real world expertise.
@@MGShadow1989 True, but this is on the jarring side of blatantly unrealistic compared to a lot of the sim'ing that Skylines pulls off.
Well you can avoid it if you build it properly in game :D
@@nicolasblume1046
True. It is just that most people plop the things from 200m bird view to the ground ..while NOT looking at a cliff's actual height from the ground perspective. CPP is very guilty of that ;D
@@fumanchu4785 I believe CPP may be from a landlocked US state, so I forgive him a little bit:)
Seeing line 10 with 67 super bendy buses is enough to give Biffa a heart attack. Definitely think this is a huge improvement though!
*dies in biffa
How would it give Biffa a heart attack?
One thing I miss about the old bus system was that the service was more for first and last mile rides. I think the current system is great, but it be nice to consider those kinds of commutes in the next episode
Busses are my favourite type of transport in the game. They're so flexible because if theres a road a bus can get to it. The workshop is also loaded with higher capacity busses and the base game finally has some too from the Airport DLC. Also very early to unlock.
Ps. I know Verde Beach is mostly Vanilla, but have you thought of using the AutoLineColor mod for your cities? Might save some time and will make new lines instantly easier to see for us viewers.
Yeah. Asset developers have made some ridiculous vehicles. There’s a double-decker bi-articulated bus that holds 290 passengers (Roadwhale by Rev0). There are long, double-decker trams that can hold up to 630 passengers (Railwhale, also by Rev0). There are even metro vehicles that can hold 1200 passengers, though at least that’s more realistic.
There is a dlc just for buses.
The workshop also has electric busses. 30 and 70 people l think? They completely remove the noise (not realistic imo but still cool)
@@Illiyeen_Jameel why mention workshop assets when you can get them vanilla?
@@piersnivans5983 u can in vanilla????
Hey Phil, I absolutely love this. Busses always felt a bit like an afterthought but this is so good laid out! I only think some more local routes would be good, this network is essentially just a connecting network and not so much a coverage network. In some areas it is still a bit sparse and quite a walk for some folks. But all in all I think this is a massive step forward :)
That's a good point! One of these days soon, I'll get more local routes added!
I noticed during the Road Diet episode you didnt add a bus lane road to Sterling Zoo boulevard because it didnt have a bus route, which was integral to early transit in Verde Beach. I thought at the time because it had metro it may have been an extra expense. But really pleased that was rectified in this episode with Bus Route 4 and expanded the route to include more attractions, would be worthy of a dedicated bus lane now.
Definitely love transit episodes and these new routes definitely have more thought and care put into them, getting more trips with nearly 30 less routes is seriously impressive! Great job! Looking forward to the next episode and smashing the previous number!
Edit: just seen Route 6 (Zues) goes alongside the VBFD Firemen Park from episode 24 (how time flies!) & could turnaround closer to the Dark Blue Metro Line potentially for another targeted connection?
No no no... I'd torch the buses and use subways and/or cable cars. Buses already cause a total mess on city streets. They are self policed which means they don't care what they hit and they will run you off the road now. They are too privileged now! Where I lived they wrecked into each other as well as hitting their own street level light rail cars.
Being self policed is truly messed up. Even the city police pull them over after a chase. They need policing by the German Gestapo and I wouldn't use a taser on there damn drivers, I'd use a cattle prod on them before beating them.
Mini buses I could deal with. They are a different breed of drivers that actually drive with care.
It was awesome to get an insight into transit planning, I think that's how you've drawn a lot of us non-planners into not just the channel, but the whole of planning. I think realistically you'd have wanted to rework routes in areas a few at a time. So for example working in Old Verde Beach you'd still keep the previous bus routes across the river so that service is continuously maintained. However, these overhaul episodes are amazing!
gotta salute you for this episode. I had to redo my entire cities bus network recently and it was one of the most mentally taxing things I've done in the game lol. there is so much to keep track of and give consideration to
Yes! This is how bus route design actually works. It always frustrates me to see people make these winding nonsensical circulator routes with their bus lines. I get that in the game it may work, but that's not how buses work in the real world.
You mentioned at roughly 48 minutes that the shuttle concept was difficult, but didn't the content creator pack come with the little mini bus that could act like a worker shuttle? Also, don't forget the little local route you had around the temple, help keep it accessible!
I wish he didn't just make everything a super long bend and played around with types!
I use this sprinter model as my low capacity industry area shuttle steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=702397036
The main issue is the capacity and the amount of passengers routes draw. I wish there was a way to draw fewer passengers at routes that have less capacity. In reality, if you knew a route was going to be more comfortable due to more capacity, you might contemplate taking that route over a lower capacity route. The game prioritizes directness/ theoretical speed over all else.
@@CityPlannerPlays in this case, when you draw a long route, aren't you making bus preferable to mass transit? If people have to walk less to a bus stop, they'll always choose what is closer? If so, I would try making small, circular routes with shuttles within neighborhoods to/from a mass transit station and they wouldn't overlap
@@CityPlannerPlays It would make sense to upgrade all the busiest roads where buses travel to roads with bus lanes because the super bendy bus is basically too long for a bus stop.
Great episode and great set of rules in the beginning.
What I really missed was a more complete approach reviewing all modes of transit from high- to low-capacity - 41:43 this red metro line could have a fill-in stop before the river; 24:42 Vine St metro (green) and the red train line could have a transfer ... with this high- to low-capacity approach you have a stable system of high-capacity lines and design the bus network in a non-cannibalizing way.
Time and time again I had the impression that cannibalization is worse in the game than in reality because the algorithm seems to put too much weight on the path from home to bus stop / metro station /... and hardly recognizes the quicker ride with the fast vehicle. You should check whether overcrowding issues mainly happen in these duplicating sections of the bus lines and maybe that is also where metro ridership has declined. Maybe all bus lines should get rid of the stops near the metro plaza where so many lines converge and there are high-capacity stops everywhere ...
Boy, it's difficult to fault our host for anything. I love his videos. He's not just good, he's damn good. I fault the game for not allowing you to open access to the beaches first so you can get water, sewage and fugly ships out of the way. Passenger ships/boats, parks, walk ways (even dog parks on parts... as well as a nude beach) and tall hotels should be on the beach and the fugly stuff out of sight. Mass transit to the beaches should be by cable car or subways to avoid the clutter and eye sores. Buses just don't belong cluttering up the best part of your town.
If the developers allowed you access to all the beach front properties (right away) then you can get all the fugly stuff away for the pretty beaches and not clutter them up so soon with such things as shipping freight and all water treatment facilities. The mods go very well with this game and I would cheat with mods to overcome protecting my beaches first. Other than that, even the coders did well. Glad they allowed for mods.
Been waiting for this episode for a while, Verde certainly needed the change in bus routes to help move people about and take advantage of all the fantastic road network changes that have happened over the past few episodes.
I really like the complete overhaul, rethinking the lines in compliance with how the city has evolved, and getting rid of redundant or obsolete lines. :) I wouldn't put too great emphasis on the numbers, it's natural the other forms of transport gets less popular as the bus system starts to make more sense, and I'm sure it will balance out in the end.
Great video. Perhaps some of the longer routes that mirror the subway could be split so that sims would be forced to transfer to complete the route. This may encourage the sims to look for the higher capacity metro.
Also I feel sorry the poor passengers on the intercity bus service being stuck behind the super bendy local service 😂😂
Tip 1: don’t put stops near the end of a block, because the buses may start queueing and block the intersection. That happened to me in busy lines.
Tip 2: there is a 6 lane road with bus lanes and trees on the sidewalk. It helps with the noise.
Also I don’t think complementary services are bad when there is demand for it. We have a avenue here in São Paulo, that’s has a subway under and bus corridor above and they’re both very busy.
I used the Mini Bus vehicle type to create shuttle services in one of my cities. Basically went from a metro station, to a theme park and looped around a hotel area.
Agreed 110%! Big buses and their drivers are very dangerous and cause too much congestion and they all drive as though it were their last day on earth.
Yeah but sometimes my buses tend to get much higher usage than i expected and then, i tend to have big buses just because the bigger the buses you use, the less buses you need to use, the less it will cost you,
This was a great idea! Line 10 could actually decrease from 200% to 100% because of the fewer passengers at each stop. I noticed that the monorail route ends at very central points where you have bus routes in each end which are continueing the same allyways, so maybe you should look at the monorail and continue the monorail line a bit at each end. Also, realistically, super bendy buses need great turning points or roundabouts for the buses to turn at their end stations, so some places which are not a terminal would need turning points for the bendybuses.
I finally caught up with the whole Verde Beach series yesterday and was actually quite sad when I realised I'd come to the end after an intense week or so of bingeing it, so I was so glad to see this today. Your channel is genuinely my favourite thing on UA-cam, so calming, entertaining, informative and fun. I'm from London in the UK so a lot of the transit choices you make in this series are so different to how we do things over here, but it's fascinating to see the city evolve, and I'm excited to be able to keep up to date with it now I'm all caught up though.
Yup, I hate getting to the end of his video series. I find myself watching them nearly almost repeatedly. Wished water sewage/water intake/cleaning were always out of sight leaving the sandy beaches opened to subways, public parks, passenger ships, private boating and huge public parks (lastly, high rises). Sandy beaches should be left pristine, the very most valued property of any city.
If I had no budget to mess with, the first underground level would go to our guest such as yourself so you have your own level to drive on the wrong (side of the road). Here in the US we use the left side of the road for passing and trying to hit people head-on at high speeds. :) In the country of Texas, driving is a high impact sport.
Come visit when you can!
Long time watcher of your vids man, first time commenter. Wanted to gift some wisdom I’ve noticed: so when you increase the amount of buses that really only effects the budget and of course the amount of buses on the road but once you’ve run the simulation a bit it levels out - that’s a good time to also consider changing the buses back to more moderate sizes, and that helps your traffic. Instead of a big ole swinging booty hanging out the back, slim them back down and find a happy medium: that’ll help the traffic behind the bus pass, especially in areas with bus lanes or higher density traffic. Better traffic, fewer buses, better budget, better city!
Love this! Sensible public transit is one of my favorite things to do in Cities Skylines along with naming the routes (as asinine as THAT may seem). You gotta make sure to add Trolleybuses to the Palma Del Fuego so you can cross "all modes of transit" off your Verde Beach completion list!
We've about exhausted calling our light rail by colors. We need the gay rainbow line now.
The Vengabus is coming
And everybody's jumping
New York to San Francisco
An intercity disco
The wheels of steel are turning
And traffic lights are burning
So if you like to party
Get on and move your body
City/Urban planning has always fascinated me. Living in Hong Kong, you can imagine it being quite an important job. Learned SO MUCh from your videos, it's really interesting. Almost makes me want to go back to study an Urban management degree..!
I've never been this early to an upload before so I wanted to thank you for all the work you put into your content. You've helped me put a lot more thought into the way I build my cities and it's made the game way, way more satisfying. Efficient bus routes/public transit are my achille's heel so it's always great to watch you work on transport networks. Thanks for everything you've done for the community!
10:55 "Everyone’s very unhappy"
As the majority are smiling green
i love transportation and traffic fixing episodes, that to me is the best part of any cities skylines series. and because you have real life experience, its interesting to see how a pro handles traffic and public transit. look forward to the next one!!!
Damn I love public transport so much. I think you did a good (and necessary) job. I think that, once the other side is done, all transit will be much better overall
I just hate big buses. They're dangerous and cause heavy traffic congestion and eye sores.
47:50 While maybe not the most realistic, in the context of the game, it might just be worth extending the monorail to that little industrial offshoot.
Also, for the decreased metro and train utilization, is it possible that those means of transport are now suffering overcrowding causing the residents to just pass up on them?
at 11:18 you still have people on your buses as a count, is this maybe the fireside heights tour and the other bus tours you have around the city, as well as the intercity buses.
I remember a video of yours a long time ago which mentioned buses every 3 blocks, tram every 6, subway every 12 and rail every 24. If you watch the AoE of smiles every time you place a stop it is about a 1.5 to 2 block radius from the stop, meaning you could place a bus every 3 or 4 blocks in the game and have the AoE's not over lap.
Thoroughly enjoyable video.
Also you mention 13km for a bus route being long, growing up in Europe I am used to buses that do a 40 mile circular route, 13km seems nothing haha.
Couple of things. I may be wrong, but I think the Siemper Verde bus line is misspelled?
Also, at about 49:16, it looks like just east of Old Verde Beach is flooding.
Bus related - the new route map looks good! I wonder if the reduction in metro usage is because of parallel routing, except the bus getting people farther than the metro without needing transfers?
I’ve been waiting for this episode for awhile and it didn’t disappoint. AND it’s going to be a two parter! Love the changes and they’re all logical. Plan on doing something similar with my own city which is approaching 80,000 residents and seems to have our grown it’s old bus routes as well. Great video, CPP.
Reserve your beach fronts for large parks, passenger ships, subways (and high rise hotels) and private boating. Get the fugly plumbing out of sight as well as container ships and freight. Our host does awesome work.
Excellent work, Phil.
The overhaul is better as evident by the continually increasing ridership, VB out grew the legacy lines and it was indeed the time for the overhaul. Looking forward to part two.
I wish vanilla had proper BRT bus stops and more integrated hubs.
Hey Phil,
Superb episode! I've been waiting for this overhaul of the bus system for a while now, so great that it's finally happening!
I do have one issue with the Semreverde line, though. It passes by the bus metro hub in the old lumber area as well as the bus interchange near the station across the river. On top of that, it allows access to the restricted neighbourhood.
I would like to suggest the following fix: End Semreverde at the bus-metro stop, start a new line there that goes to the train station across the river and finally create a new route from that station to the restricted neighbourhood. This allows for a better management of the number of buses on the three different parts of the route.
I see this quite often in real life, that some bus lines have a 15 minute service on some parts of the route, but then only a 30 minute service on other parts of the route. Basically, every other bus will turn back after a certain stop, while the others go on to the final stop of the line. Would love to see this reflected in the game 😊
Either way, I'm looking forward to the next episode!
Great video and great network design! I know you're focused on buses right now, but I think it would make sense to add a metro connection across the river to connect the white and red lines, which are both currently spurs. There's bus and ferry service right there, but spur lines always underperform and you could probably save some transfers onto the Sempreverde bus line, which has enough going for it as it is.
Time to bury the big buses and start tunneling for underground light rail..under the water too.
Many areas now don't have enough coverage! This is probably the reason why the usage got down a bit first.
Some shorter local lines that serve as feeder lines for higher modes would absolutely make sense. And some additional direct lines.
Oder people can't easily walk 3 or 4 blocks.
The new smaller bus models would be perfekt for this (or just Standard buses)
I agree to a point. Standard buses are accidents causing collisions and traffic. Most city bus drivers act/drive as though its their last day on earth. Mini buses are safer allowing handicap riders better access to transportation (I'm handicapped). The best if affordable would be subways and/or cable cars... cable cars topographically infrequent and impractical to use in most areas. Subways, not so much, but expensive. The expense is caring for the local water tables building and maintaining them going forward.
In every video, I always learn so much about the logistics of real-world city design, and why different amenities/ features might appear in a city. THANK YOU for sharing your expertise CP! 🙏🏾
I love the redesign, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to do this with a city of this size. The one thing about the change that I dislike is the usage of buses for the very long line down the Sempeverde. Personally I would use a Monorail or maybe a Tram for a line that long with that much rider ship. But then again my cities are never this big and I tend to redesign the entire transit system all at once, which - again - with a city your size would be a 5 episode undertaking and not pausing would definitely cause chaos if you just ripped out everything and rebuilt it.
Couldn't agree more. Just hide the mass transit underground. He does well though. If I were planning my city, my peeps would die before I could open another tile.
Great episode as always ;) I recommend that for some of the lines where you have Super-Bendy Buses you take just bendy buses instead; notice how during the bus tour every time the super-bendy bus would make a stop it's so long that it congests the entire bus-lane; plain bendy-buses don't do that. Yeah it's a loss of 30 passengers per bus but it would help you if you ever wanna optimize traffic and it'll allow you to clear queues faster.
Absolutely fantastic episode! My only wish is that you'd made more use of the hubs. Like there's a monorail bus hub near Vine street that has no buses coming to it. And the Sempreverde route could've ended at the Lewis metro-bus hub and been continued by another route (like you mentioned with interlining). Aside from that though, the whole redesign was really interesting and great to watch. Keep up the good work!
Not surprised deleting the bus routes didn't do much. A lot of locations in verde beach are well served by higher capacity modes of transit and Cims are happy to walk or cycle a long way to get to something like a subway. When you remove a bus route that provides access to the subway, the Cims don't start taking their cars to their destination in en-mass, but will just take a different way to get to the station.
Verde beach also had a lot of bus routes providing local coverage (that white route at the start...), instead of really connecting different areas of the city, and many of the routes that provided more connection mirrored subways, or were along lower traffic corridors. The first set was mostly replacing walking routes, and anything replaced by car trips isn't going to generate traffic flow issues; it doesn't hit any of he materials and probbaly doesn't hit many important collectors either. The last two would have turned into subway useage, and traffic on those lower useage roads respectively.
Cims being such fitness focused people makes evaluating how well transit is working really hard. High ridership means you're replacing trips, but doesn't mean your replacing car trips. A lot of real world logic and assumptions about accessibility breaks down in the face of grandma's insistence on walking everywhere. High ridership can perversely make traffic worse
The fact you've gotten more ridership with a quarter of the lines is probbaly a good sign, but the only thing that really works is sitting down with the route tool and a lot of experimentation with assumptions about where those routes started.
It's really nice to hear about how these services work IRL. It gives a much better understanding of how a city operates
It's interesting to me comparing how you talk about buses to how they work in my city. We have really long bus routes with the same name/number all the way and nobody gets confused about it.
I noticed that your first bus route goes right by the bike path. I'm not sure if people will bike to then take the bus, but if they do, creating bike connections between the stops and the path could be really interesting!
What a great episode! Long overdue imo, Verde Beach's transit always seemed a little stop-gap to me. Can't wait for the next one!
Lots of Cities Skylines content on UA-cam, but only Phil gives you equity analysis of his bus routes.
Idk why but buses are one of my favorite things to watch in my city. I get excited when my population is high enough to mess around with them so this video was fun
Great great episode! I’d be slightly cautious about using super bendy busses everywhere as they will almost always overhang the running lane at a stop which could increase traffic. Also, biofuel buses would be good on the local routes as I believe they are quieter.
1. This was crazy satisfying
2. Verde Beach really feels... modern? Cleaned up, maybe? I just love the vibe of cities that take pride in a robust public transit system
I loved this transit redo!
This got me to rethink buses and how to use them in Cites
Usually I would space out stops out in giant loops rather than this way
Impressive! Inevitably, I reach a point in my cities when bus routes need redistribution. I dislike this chore so much, I do as Phil did. Axe them all at once.
Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)
Fun fact, Boston is currently in the process in redesigning their entire Bus system, so this episode comes at a perfect timing
@Paul Moore you can thank the oil industry, they’ve lobbied against public transit so they can have more and more people spend money on the gas for driving their own vehicles
For some reason the transit redo's are my favorite episodes. I guess I'm just more statistical than I thought. I would love to see maybe a monorail check considering the new developments/areas.
That's very costly, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. Open up the check book and shove those monorails underground too.
Loved it! I loved transportation but once I started watching you in late 2020/2021 I got so much more interested in transport and city planning. You have also got me into playing cities skylines! Keep it up!
Yup, I'm being actively seduced to buy it too.
One of the challenges that exists with transit planning is that you have to work with the city that you have rather than the city you want. It’s seems like you’ve addressed most of those.
A couple of things that I didn’t see or maybe you deliberately dropped was ensuring that facilities like hospitals, schools, elder care and community centres were not connected. These are places where many service recipients cannot drive and cannot walk to far to reach. I realise that there are game mechanics issues at play.
Another thing that you addressed was doing away with local routes. You are rightly concerned with putting people on collectors and increasing transfer points, but there is value in local money-losing collector routes. A lot of suburban routes are busy 6-9 and 3-6. The game doesn’t account for it.
I don’t have any real solutions, so thanks for the videos and I look forward to the next one.
Certainly a nice improvement :)
I did notice at least one line, but maybe some others as well, that went pretty close by some bus-stations, but then passed them by (I believe especially the Semper Verde line, near the bridge). Might be nice to route these via the bus stations that they are near by?
Actually, pretty sure that some traffic issues are going to appear exactly by the new bus lanes affecting the throughput capacity of roads. Because the brand new shiny super bendy buses are really going to block your roads elsewhere they appear. They seem ridicilousIy bulky on narrow local streets. I think, there is more reasonable way to not just decrease the amount of buses if they not so neccessary, but decrease the very size of those buses) Maybe add some double-decker buses for diversity. Best wishes)
You just saved me from a mental breakdown. I had to do a fresh install of windows and lost ALL of my cities skylines saves. including the 400 hours spent just building VB alone. Then I remembered you add your save file to the workshop. Thank you. Thank you so much. I was able to get VB back.
A couple more vertical bus lines would probably be enjoyed by the citizens, while the horizontal is certainly well taken care of with these adjustments
I really love VB! It feels like a place, a real city where people live. Hope your inspiration keeps coming and that this series keeps going for a long time :)
Looks amazing! Maybe run a double check on stops and connections, I noticed at least one stop on Kellerhouse didn't have pedestrian connections to the stops. Some lines also had a bit many stops around the end of the lines bunched up, maybe you solved that already, but just in case you didn't. I think the area of Government district and the area between that and the National park could benefit from an East-West route through the new road over the old train lines. And Finally, I think many more of your chosen roads could pretty easily survive road diets as well.
Excited to see what you come up with with the metro to combat the bus lines competing with that now :DD
I loved this episode! I think it might be prudent to play around with the various bus types depending on the capacity of the various lines instead of just putting a bendy on them all! There's also a minibus that you could use for "shuttle" services for different industrial parks to serve as employee buses? I think that could be a good compromise 😊
“If you kids don’t respect the topography I’m gonna turn this bus around and NO ONE is going to Warehouse Land!!!”
it may be in the next episode but i was wondering if you were going to be building a point to point bus stops at each of the terminals i.e. downtown to the intercity terminal. but those routes may be a bit redundant but it would a route that would be planned irl i think.
For some reason, this episode makes me want to see you tackle a map consisting of a lot of medium sized islands, with airships as part of the public transit. Not sure why.
Anyway, a thought about bus routes:
I live in a greater metropolitan area, and I'm used to there being two general types of bus routes.
First, there are local buses, which typically bounce between two or three subway or commuter rail stops. These routes tend to have many stops, and serve to collect/disperse passengers for the faster modes of transport. They provide local coverage.
Second, there are the medium distance buses, which usually connect a number of larger transit hubs such as commuter rail. E.g., if your commuter rail looks like the spokes of a wheel, these bus lines connect the spokes laterally. Such lines tend to cover longer distances and have fewer stops. In fact, they typically _only_ stop where they can transfer passengers to a subway or commuter rail. They provide connectivity.
The bus lines you build here kind of seem to try and fill both of these roles at once: they are long, but they have frequent stops at least in some areas, and connect to both large and small transit hubs.
This is _not_ a complaint. I just think it's interesting to see how your build, based on your professional experience, differs from my personal experience as a passenger.
Edit: I've now seen that other commenters have had the same thought: your network has very good connections, but it looks a bit thin on the coverage.
I don't know if that's an oversight on your part, or if I have an incomplete understanding of how the game calculates coverage.
Yes - that's absolutely how many systems are designed. There are a few different ways to do it - focusing on either coverage or ridership or a mixture of both. The problem with CS is that all routes become ridership routes - regardless of the reason they are designed. I did also space things a bit more than I would in reality to factor for the distance that cims are willing to walk. Demographics do play a significant factor in reality that have no impact in CS. I'd love to see this in a mod or follow up to the game, though - shorter walking distances required for older residents!
@@CityPlannerPlays So it's mostly a difference between real life and game mechanics, then. That makes sense, thank you for explaining.
Hi, I just wanted to say, I'm finally caught up with the series after binge watching the old episodes the last few weeks and it's awesome to now see progress in real time, keep up the great work!
I hate the ending of his series. So, I watch them over again. He's a great host.
15:00 "We're gonna make this a super bendy bus" is a great out of context quote
Phil's word of the day: Circuitous
Why don't you connect run a train to the intercity bus terminal? For people entering from outside, intercity bus > train > any large area > local bus > walking > destination.
Also, the Myrtle Gardens bus route winds around before terminating at the myrtle gardens bus depot. I think people from the industrial park could want the green line. If the Myrtle Gardens line first went to the bus depot and then went around, it would place the green line connection in the middle of the route reducing passengers on each side. At least that what I'm imagining would happen :)
Note: In some cities like San Francisco really large bus lines giving example 14-Mission, it also has a Rapid service called 14R, this is due to many people often going from one big place to another. 14 is the most popular route in SF. the MTA (municipal transit association) knows that there will be a high demand for people to live in massive ditricts and work inother large district. I recommend in the future to maybe add rapid lines if your longer routes go bismal
That's a good point! Where I live, some bus routes have that kind of "doubling up" as well. Typically, it's a bus that only travels during morning and afternoon rush, skipping all but the most used stops to help with commuter traffic.
I don't know if Cities: Skylines mechanics can simulate that kind of thing very well, or if creating a "rapid" version of a bus route would just add to the traffic, but it would be interesting to find out.
Would love to see this line update for all the other modes of transport, but especially the metro system, since big cities often dig new tunnels every once in a while to make the system more logical
Change is good. As a city grows, the transportation system needs to adapt. So I think this reworking of the bus routes was a very good thing and the new ones look pretty good. I'm just worried about that really long on that is 20 km. It seems this one should be broken into several individual routes that share stops for easy transfers.
Looking at the long routes, I remember there was a bus line that went from Downtown Salt Lake City to downtown Ogden, 40 miles of bus route through like 5 different cities.
Wow, that sounds like something that should have been replaced by a railroad at some point :-O
I hope those buses had decent air conditioning...
We reserve those long trips to local heavy rail. It and the airport has access directly to the light rail/subway and local mass transports.
I always wanted to do this in my city, but never really got over the fear of making it worse. Your set of rules and seeing this episode helped a lot getting over that thought and planning to try it now. As usual magnificient content!
This is one of my favorite recent episodes of yours. I spend teh entire week looking forward to your videos, I watch them at work, I watch them at home. Love the content please keep up the excellent work.
I'm now re-watching his series. He's outstanding.
There is a monorail-bus hub near downtown that is now useless. You should add a bus lane there or change it to a normal station to get space for a park or an office
I think it would also make sense to have a couple of the bus routes interface with the Monorail bus hub on Sunset for transfers. After all, that's what it's there for! :D
think the issue with your busses 'canibalizing ' other services is that you are still replacing them, think it might be better to have a few high capacity lines with fewer stops that cross the entire city or go from and to a 'high capacity' transport option hub where both are not connected yet. and then along the long lines you have district busses that cover the district and connect to each other on the end of them. so the citizens could go bus train bus bus on their transit instead of having them use many different ones. cities here do it like that with a long intercity bus with fewer stops on the main road but its in an area where there is no train coverage or other transport. and district lines should be high number of low capacity busses so they dont take up much of a lane road. in dence areas espacially the distance between busstops can be less then 200m . should look at this like electricity instalation. line that enters house and carries most is the most direct from a to b and along the way subsystems are placed for lower capacity but to make sure you reach everywhere
The highly used lines could be candidates for a tram or trolleybus upgrade. The usage could make the spending for additional infrasstructure reasonable
It was good that you removed all bus routes and started again as the city has grown and changed, so the old bus routes didn't make sense anymore and needed to change with the times.
Very cool! I think there were some areas that are less served than before because of the removal of the circulator and last mile routes. I also think some of semperverde should be put back to 4 lanes
Hey Phil. I think you destroyed the bridge by upgrading it. It was a content creator pack bridge before 🙂
Just got done watching the stream from the other day where you filled out the stadium district in Clearwater County. Just wanted to drop in to say that if you're being accurate with the flags in that district, there should be an American flag somewhere inside the stadium for the anthem. As always, everything looks great!!
Late stage bus network redos are some of my favorite tasks in the game!
We are 6 years away from the start of stellaris in verde beach
Nothing gets me going quite like a public transit overhaul. Oh yeah, that's the stuff! 🧡
Love the video, designing transit is one of my favourite things about this game. For the Sempreverde line, I think it would make sense both for realism and the game mechanics to break the line at the city limits. In most places I've been, transit agencies tend to end service at/near city lines.
Light rail in my town has metro access to our largest surrounding city by heavy rail. It's great and works very well.
Change semperverde to a metro or monorail or a tram. From what I remember in vanilla tram has higher capacity so the number vehicles would be reduced. But with over a 1k people it seems like it needs to be upgraded. Also Vancouver has quite frequent skytrain stops (a lot of times 500-750 meters apart) so a metro doesn’t mean lack in accessibility.
Lastly, the free public transport policy will increase ridership. So maybe at the very end?
26:39, there's a nice main road you coud haved added a bus route on. Thoughts?
What a unique and enjoyable episode. Thanks for all of this great entertainment!
This is it. I have finally watched every episode of Verde Beach. I can't believe it.
I actually tried redesigning bus and tram Lines like you did. My record before was about 1900 with 20 Lines. With this tutorial I've managed to reach 1400 with JUST 9 LINES...and there's still room for improvement!
1:10 it's unfortunate that you can never really get the docks the same height as the ferries.
I love that you made busses the local version of the subway then you were surprised it took away people 😂 if you are on a local bus or train and it only saves you a couple minutes why get off?
I personally think that going from scratch is the best way because you can't always remember how the old routes were thought to work.
On this line, to keep the idea in the beginning to have more often busses but longer walk distances, you can downgrade to a lower capacity bus and increase the number of buses on the ruby line
Bsuses are nice and the upgrade/refo of the network quite necessary, but what is about (Myrtle Garden) Tram extions towards the mall and sportd campus and probably even further (towards Sterling or the other Campus Part on Palme del Fuego?). And getting rid of some of the forced transfers in the metro system wouldn't be bad, either.
Loved the vid CPP! Been waiting for another VB vid for a while and this one was incredible!
48:21 which bus route is that yellow bus? I thought there weren't any stops being shared.