Lack of support and not supported are two different things. Valve re-vitalized SteamOS with the SteamDeck though again, not released for a pc build as of yet. I understand SteamOS 2 is legacy AF, however adding a somewhat simple distro that still can play steam games has it's value for sake of comparison. Especially since how front of mind SteamOS currently is.
@@CodetheThings sorry but you’re plain wrong. It’s massively outdated and realistically serves no purpose in a modern setting. Everything about it is out of date and it simply shouldn’t be used.
No. SteamOS 2 is ancient, out of date, unsupported by Valve and has no community support either. It doesn't have ANY of the recent improvements that make gaming on the current SteamOS great and showing it in any modern use is misleading and harmful.
@@USFrozen I'd argue that if the focus of this thread was outside of the 30 seconds of me talking to SteamOS and mentioning it was legacy, PopOS and Ubuntu didn't really perform differently. So legacy or non curious where the hidden performance is at? Sure, I'm gonna toss manjaro on this system and see if that helps. But so far Intel + Nvidia + Linux hasn't faired well.
@@CodetheThings Nvidia is the biggest issue, you have to be cautious of what driver you're running, either the free nouveau or non free (proprietary) Nvidia driver, and most people will just recommend using the non free driver. It didn't work on HoloISO because even now, that's an all-AMD optimized experience. I would honestly recommend Linux Mint above all else. It's compatible with Ubuntu packages, LM devs don't worry too much about own repos (which caused Linus a lot of grief under Pop!_OS), and its options for Cinnamon or MATE desktop environments are much smoother to transition to from Windows.
Ignoring the SteamOS 2 Issue that everyone else has mentioned already, I would like to just say from my experience, the reason that windows beat the 2018 Razer so hard with cyberpunk isn't an issue with the Nvidia drivers. Its a long standing issue with Pascal GPUs (Nvidia 1000 series) and the DX12 to Vulkan layer VKD3D. This issue doesn't happen with DX11 games or with any other generation of Nvidia cards.
That's a solid point. I've handed down too much hardware to test with another GPU besides my main system. Hopefully when the 4000 series drops I'll have room to rebuild and try again!
This right here. I have a 1080Ti and have been having a good time gaming on Linux for a couple of years, but if you want to play DX12 titles and you are on nvidia 1000 or older series GPU's just boot Windows.
You are using a very old version of steam OS that i think isn't even supported. Its not even remotely close to steam OS that comes with deck. Frankly, valve should remove the link to it and you should remove the video before you get many more comments like this one
Yes I call out that SteamOS 3.0 which is utilized in the Steam Deck is not available for PC, hence the only publicly available official SteamOS is 2. My attempts to load HoloISO which is based on SteamOS 3 were blocked because of the intel processor in my old hardware.
While I appreciate the intention here, as most people have pointed out Steam OS 2 is based on an ancient version of Debian. The kernel, mesa drivers, Nvidia drivers, etc. are all extremely out of date. I would recommend checking out Pop_OS as a simple distro you can install and checkout for gaming. You'll be amazed how well most games perform. I've personally been using Linux exclusively since 2018 for gaming, and my experience has been very positive. Yes there are some games that don't play because of lack of anti-cheat support - but a huge number of modern AAA games work. Elden Ring actually runs better under Linux than Windows (because of under the hood Proton optimizations). If you look at platforms like the SteamDeck the story gets even better. I was lucky enough to get my deck towards the beginning of June and the experience has been outstanding. Playing RDR2 at 40fps with medium details has blown me away. I would highly recommend rerunning your tests using a modern distro and reporting back!
I appreciate the input. I'm curious why so many are missing the fact I do speak to and report on PopOS and Ubuntu? The reoccurring theme is "test a modern OS"... Yet I did and ran steamOS for a sense of comparison. Seems to be a bit of confusion here... maybe my late night editing chopped too much 🤔 But that said I'm happy to see others share their experiences rather than only neg steamOS. Definitely would like to capture the pros and cons.
@@CodetheThings Fair enough! I jumped the gun a bit here, apologies. I did re-watched your video and it is clear that you did test on both Pop_OS + Ubuntu, but it looks like you used Ubuntu 20.04 which is over two years old. Two years in the Linux gaming world makes a *huge* difference. Pop_OS also has major improvements to both the kernel + drivers. I wasn't sure what version of Pop you used - 22.04 is the latest version. Unlike Windows where drivers tend to be installed independently (think downloading Nvidia drivers or AMD drivers), for Intel / AMD hardware the drivers are included directly in the kernel (and the mesa user space). This means that the version of your distro can have a major impact on gaming performance (many distros will stick with a specific kernel / mesa versions). It is possible to install updated mesa drivers on Ubuntu using a PPA (checkout launchpad.net/~oibaf/+archive/ubuntu/graphics-drivers if you want up-to-date mesa for Ubuntu). Please forgive me if you're already aware of this. Incidentally, rolling distros like Arch will guarantee you always have the most up-to-date kernel / mesa drivers so you don't need to worry as much about this. Still really appreciate your efforts though! I think the more you get into Linux, you'll appreciate the benefits it has to offer. I actually own a Valve Index and have been able to enjoy many VR games on Linux as well - although this is one area where Windows is definitely better!
@@RobertStrube appreciate the second run through. Always curious on everyone's thoughts on flow and details in the videos. I'll admit I probably focused too much on the steamOS portion and too lightly on the other trials. For the record I did grab latest for popos. I also stuck with ubuntu 20.04 only because of the issues I've run into with 22.04 in the workplace and was optimistically cautious. You can see my Linux noob when going through this (and getting my Steam Deck) was the first I had really heard of arch. The install wasn't the most straight forward for pure arch and kind of focused on noob friendly for some others sake.
I tend to recommend Pop!_OS to NVIDIA users, and Fedora to AMD or Intel users. Fedora *seems* to work with NVIDIA if you enable RPMFusion, but Pop!_OS has that "just works" experience, even with decade-old GPUs. Both have their downsides, but I prefer Fedora, both as a power user and a gamer that wants things to "just work"
Have you checked out HoloIso? Curious on that perf with AMD I just don't have any spare AMD devices sitting around these days. PopOS was definitely just boot and go.
@@CodetheThings Sorry for my late response, been busy. I haven't checked it out, since I don't have a need to. However, judging from how it works, it's definitely not made for anything more than gaming. I'd also assume it to perform about as good as a slightly out of date Arch install.
While your intentions were great and I can certainly respect the amount of effort that you put into this. I would recommend making a follow up video using modern distro's like Pop!_OS (especially if you're benching an NVIDIA GPU), or using an Arch-based distro, like Arch or Majaro, to properly emulate the Linux experience that drives SteamOS 3.0. Using SteamOS 2.0 is a very bad choice as it's long been abandoned by Valve. For starters, SteamOS 2.0 uses an old version of the Debian core from 2018 and it uses Linux Kernel 4.19 which is also from 2018, so it cannot properly drive/support/utilize modern hardware. I think you would be quite surprised by the increased performance of a modern Linux distro. Good luck and keep up the good work.
So while I did highlight SteamOS 2, I did also test and highlight PopOS, HoloISO and ubuntu 20.04. I'll take note on Manjaro, though I thought I saw conflicting reports on nvidia support for arch based distros.
For the sake of correctness, I think you should probably reupload this video using a modern distro, suggestions already given by other comments. This is like comparing Win11 with Win8 and calling it "fair"
SteamOS 2 shouldn't be used. I don't know why Valve kept the download link of a year long OS that never was updated ones. Use a real Distro that is updated to really try Linux. With this logic you can go compare windows XP with the newest Linux and say that windows is generally bad.
Now that's just bad logic. SteamOS 2 released in 2018 based on an OS originally released in 2015 would be like comparing this to Windows 10. Which if we look at the June 2022 steam hardware poll, 71.26% of steam users are on Windows 10 64-bit. Clearly you are stating that Ubuntu 20.04, HoloIso and PopOS are not within your defined 'real distros' [or] most of those commenting on this thread chose to bandwagon the first post without bothering to watch the video.
As you asked for comments.... This was a flawed experiment from the get go by simply using hardware that wasn't ever intended to run Linux. Razor... Alienware... all those Windows "gaming" laptops are a big no no. Unless you actually buy a pre-built Linux laptop always look for Linux firmware ( from the Linux vendor firmware service ) and update your system, if available. As of today's date, while perfectly functional, NVIDIA cards should be avoided if you can. Proton is designed and works best as an open source platform. So AMD and the open source Linux graphics stack "MESA". Support is built into the system, plug and play ( The new Intel stuff will also be supported ). Outside of Steam OS 3, for NVIDIA PopOS is probably your best bet. For AMD Fedora workstation ( read the set up instructions ). When using Linux in general you have build or buy for Linux, not Windows. Or, like most of us do, do your research and build for both. "Phoronix" can assist you here.
Oh sure I agree there is more "optimal" hardware for this test. There were kind of two objectives for myself though, one of which was seeing if lighter OS = better OS no matter what. I'd love to loop back to this once I can truly build something specific for the use case, but I think the standard user isn't going to purchase hardware with the intent of Linux, rather do what I did and hope for the best. Honestly, I feel that having to cherry pick the hardware to run maybe 40% of the market for gaming is a rough go for anyone that wants to game competitively. Also, with your added comments (I should've highlighted more in the final cut) it's a major downside imho that you can't just piece together a system and be good to go. I do appreciate your feedback and guidance. I hadn't come across Phoronix yet so checking that out at the moment. On the note of PopOS, I did find that extremely easy to install and get going (not that ubuntu or anything was hard). It just felt clean and had a lot of potential. I'm setting up something for my kids and that really might be my go to for their early PC experiences.
@@CodetheThings In the case of "hardware" I kinda approach it like this.... If I have an xBox I don't buy a PlayStation controller.... if I have a Macbook I don't buy a Windows only gaming mouse.... If I have a BMW I don't go to Ford for a new set of wheels. I agree this may be confusing or irritating for people with legacy "Windows hardware", but that's where we are. In the case of a "lighter" OS.. well no, not really in the case of Linux. Unlike Windows where we're constantly fighting with the system itself and all of the third party programs stealing processing resources in the background, Linux pretty much starts and stops user processes when you open and close a program. They all have a pretty standard set of innt process running regardless. So a "heavy" Linux distribution can be defined as 'bundled with software' not the actual processes its running at any given time. There are arguments that some desktop environments require more resources than others but the differences can be measured in the MB these days. Linux gaming, the right hardware ( all AMD at the moment ) and the most up to date software stack ( Kernel and MESA ) that you can use. I DO get where you're coming from though.
Sorry but here's yet another SteamOS 2 comment: Going for SteamOS just because of the name is like a Mac user installing WinXP because it's the most popular on the charts 👽 Ubuntu is ok I guess. The Ubisoft and Origin launchers run pretty well when installed through Lutris in my experience. The Origin launcher crashes every now and then but it's pretty rare. Unless you are a no life gamer who HAS to have all 500 games installed Linux is great. 99% of games I used to play ran on Linux when I switched and recently the few that only ran on Windows have become supported with the popularity of the Steam Deck. Generally, unless Devs go out of their way to make their game hell to run on Linux, it's going to run. As far as work is concerned, I kind of need Adobe for work but alternatives like GIMP, photopea, avocode, etc work well enough for most use cases.
So any gamer who has LOCAL campaign games installed is a no life gamer? Reality check..most online games that are online required have become such shitfests thanks to toxic brats hacking and swatting people when they lose...that it makes them no worth the time of those just wanting to enjoy gaming again. This is where local story driven games rule such as Witcher 3
@@spicynoodle7419 true to some extent...that extent being E.A.C required games.. CS:go still works to this day for me, but that's the only exception I make as far as what I line games.ill actually play these days
SteamOS 2 is not supported by Valve and hasn’t been for a long time. There is absolutely no point in showing it in any modern scenario.
Lack of support and not supported are two different things. Valve re-vitalized SteamOS with the SteamDeck though again, not released for a pc build as of yet.
I understand SteamOS 2 is legacy AF, however adding a somewhat simple distro that still can play steam games has it's value for sake of comparison. Especially since how front of mind SteamOS currently is.
@@CodetheThings sorry but you’re plain wrong. It’s massively outdated and realistically serves no purpose in a modern setting. Everything about it is out of date and it simply shouldn’t be used.
No. SteamOS 2 is ancient, out of date, unsupported by Valve and has no community support either. It doesn't have ANY of the recent improvements that make gaming on the current SteamOS great and showing it in any modern use is misleading and harmful.
@@USFrozen I'd argue that if the focus of this thread was outside of the 30 seconds of me talking to SteamOS and mentioning it was legacy, PopOS and Ubuntu didn't really perform differently.
So legacy or non curious where the hidden performance is at? Sure, I'm gonna toss manjaro on this system and see if that helps. But so far Intel + Nvidia + Linux hasn't faired well.
@@CodetheThings Nvidia is the biggest issue, you have to be cautious of what driver you're running, either the free nouveau or non free (proprietary) Nvidia driver, and most people will just recommend using the non free driver. It didn't work on HoloISO because even now, that's an all-AMD optimized experience.
I would honestly recommend Linux Mint above all else. It's compatible with Ubuntu packages, LM devs don't worry too much about own repos (which caused Linus a lot of grief under Pop!_OS), and its options for Cinnamon or MATE desktop environments are much smoother to transition to from Windows.
Ignoring the SteamOS 2 Issue that everyone else has mentioned already, I would like to just say from my experience, the reason that windows beat the 2018 Razer so hard with cyberpunk isn't an issue with the Nvidia drivers. Its a long standing issue with Pascal GPUs (Nvidia 1000 series) and the DX12 to Vulkan layer VKD3D. This issue doesn't happen with DX11 games or with any other generation of Nvidia cards.
That's a solid point. I've handed down too much hardware to test with another GPU besides my main system. Hopefully when the 4000 series drops I'll have room to rebuild and try again!
This right here. I have a 1080Ti and have been having a good time gaming on Linux for a couple of years, but if you want to play DX12 titles and you are on nvidia 1000 or older series GPU's just boot Windows.
You are using a very old version of steam OS that i think isn't even supported. Its not even remotely close to steam OS that comes with deck. Frankly, valve should remove the link to it and you should remove the video before you get many more comments like this one
Yes I call out that SteamOS 3.0 which is utilized in the Steam Deck is not available for PC, hence the only publicly available official SteamOS is 2.
My attempts to load HoloISO which is based on SteamOS 3 were blocked because of the intel processor in my old hardware.
@@CodetheThings i think valve said to try manjaro os to get similar performance and experience
@@CodetheThings @somnia is correct. Valve recommends manjaro partner.steamgames.com/doc/steamdeck/testing
While I appreciate the intention here, as most people have pointed out Steam OS 2 is based on an ancient version of Debian. The kernel, mesa drivers, Nvidia drivers, etc. are all extremely out of date. I would recommend checking out Pop_OS as a simple distro you can install and checkout for gaming. You'll be amazed how well most games perform.
I've personally been using Linux exclusively since 2018 for gaming, and my experience has been very positive. Yes there are some games that don't play because of lack of anti-cheat support - but a huge number of modern AAA games work. Elden Ring actually runs better under Linux than Windows (because of under the hood Proton optimizations). If you look at platforms like the SteamDeck the story gets even better. I was lucky enough to get my deck towards the beginning of June and the experience has been outstanding. Playing RDR2 at 40fps with medium details has blown me away.
I would highly recommend rerunning your tests using a modern distro and reporting back!
I appreciate the input.
I'm curious why so many are missing the fact I do speak to and report on PopOS and Ubuntu? The reoccurring theme is "test a modern OS"... Yet I did and ran steamOS for a sense of comparison. Seems to be a bit of confusion here... maybe my late night editing chopped too much 🤔
But that said I'm happy to see others share their experiences rather than only neg steamOS. Definitely would like to capture the pros and cons.
@@CodetheThings Fair enough! I jumped the gun a bit here, apologies. I did re-watched your video and it is clear that you did test on both Pop_OS + Ubuntu, but it looks like you used Ubuntu 20.04 which is over two years old. Two years in the Linux gaming world makes a *huge* difference. Pop_OS also has major improvements to both the kernel + drivers. I wasn't sure what version of Pop you used - 22.04 is the latest version.
Unlike Windows where drivers tend to be installed independently (think downloading Nvidia drivers or AMD drivers), for Intel / AMD hardware the drivers are included directly in the kernel (and the mesa user space). This means that the version of your distro can have a major impact on gaming performance (many distros will stick with a specific kernel / mesa versions). It is possible to install updated mesa drivers on Ubuntu using a PPA (checkout launchpad.net/~oibaf/+archive/ubuntu/graphics-drivers if you want up-to-date mesa for Ubuntu). Please forgive me if you're already aware of this.
Incidentally, rolling distros like Arch will guarantee you always have the most up-to-date kernel / mesa drivers so you don't need to worry as much about this.
Still really appreciate your efforts though! I think the more you get into Linux, you'll appreciate the benefits it has to offer. I actually own a Valve Index and have been able to enjoy many VR games on Linux as well - although this is one area where Windows is definitely better!
@@RobertStrube appreciate the second run through. Always curious on everyone's thoughts on flow and details in the videos. I'll admit I probably focused too much on the steamOS portion and too lightly on the other trials.
For the record I did grab latest for popos. I also stuck with ubuntu 20.04 only because of the issues I've run into with 22.04 in the workplace and was optimistically cautious.
You can see my Linux noob when going through this (and getting my Steam Deck) was the first I had really heard of arch. The install wasn't the most straight forward for pure arch and kind of focused on noob friendly for some others sake.
I tend to recommend Pop!_OS to NVIDIA users, and Fedora to AMD or Intel users. Fedora *seems* to work with NVIDIA if you enable RPMFusion, but Pop!_OS has that "just works" experience, even with decade-old GPUs. Both have their downsides, but I prefer Fedora, both as a power user and a gamer that wants things to "just work"
Have you checked out HoloIso? Curious on that perf with AMD I just don't have any spare AMD devices sitting around these days.
PopOS was definitely just boot and go.
@@CodetheThings Sorry for my late response, been busy. I haven't checked it out, since I don't have a need to. However, judging from how it works, it's definitely not made for anything more than gaming.
I'd also assume it to perform about as good as a slightly out of date Arch install.
While your intentions were great and I can certainly respect the amount of effort that you put into this. I would recommend making a follow up video using modern distro's like Pop!_OS (especially if you're benching an NVIDIA GPU), or using an Arch-based distro, like Arch or Majaro, to properly emulate the Linux experience that drives SteamOS 3.0.
Using SteamOS 2.0 is a very bad choice as it's long been abandoned by Valve. For starters, SteamOS 2.0 uses an old version of the Debian core from 2018 and it uses Linux Kernel 4.19 which is also from 2018, so it cannot properly drive/support/utilize modern hardware.
I think you would be quite surprised by the increased performance of a modern Linux distro.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
So while I did highlight SteamOS 2, I did also test and highlight PopOS, HoloISO and ubuntu 20.04.
I'll take note on Manjaro, though I thought I saw conflicting reports on nvidia support for arch based distros.
@@CodetheThings Manjaro has an easy installer for Nvidia drivers.
SteamOS 2 is NOT a good distro for modern use. If you want a desktop distro specifically for gaming try Nobara Linux.
For the sake of correctness, I think you should probably reupload this video using a modern distro, suggestions already given by other comments. This is like comparing Win11 with Win8 and calling it "fair"
And as called out I also reviewed Ubuntu 20.04 and latest PopOS and attempted HoloISO. I would consider all 3 of those modern.
SteamOS 2 shouldn't be used. I don't know why Valve kept the download link of a year long OS that never was updated ones.
Use a real Distro that is updated to really try Linux.
With this logic you can go compare windows XP with the newest Linux and say that windows is generally bad.
Now that's just bad logic. SteamOS 2 released in 2018 based on an OS originally released in 2015 would be like comparing this to Windows 10. Which if we look at the June 2022 steam hardware poll, 71.26% of steam users are on Windows 10 64-bit.
Clearly you are stating that Ubuntu 20.04, HoloIso and PopOS are not within your defined 'real distros' [or] most of those commenting on this thread chose to bandwagon the first post without bothering to watch the video.
Or windows 98 am I right?
But there's a difference between Steam Os 2 and Windows 10, a huge one in fact. It's being updated all the time unlike Steam Os 2
Try out Nobara Linux
Will do! How's it work with Nvidia?
@@CodetheThingsBest distro so far with NVIDIA.
As you asked for comments.... This was a flawed experiment from the get go by simply using hardware that wasn't ever intended to run Linux. Razor... Alienware... all those Windows "gaming" laptops are a big no no. Unless you actually buy a pre-built Linux laptop always look for Linux firmware ( from the Linux vendor firmware service ) and update your system, if available.
As of today's date, while perfectly functional, NVIDIA cards should be avoided if you can. Proton is designed and works best as an open source platform. So AMD and the open source Linux graphics stack "MESA". Support is built into the system, plug and play ( The new Intel stuff will also be supported ).
Outside of Steam OS 3, for NVIDIA PopOS is probably your best bet. For AMD Fedora workstation ( read the set up instructions ). When using Linux in general you have build or buy for Linux, not Windows. Or, like most of us do, do your research and build for both. "Phoronix" can assist you here.
Oh sure I agree there is more "optimal" hardware for this test. There were kind of two objectives for myself though, one of which was seeing if lighter OS = better OS no matter what.
I'd love to loop back to this once I can truly build something specific for the use case, but I think the standard user isn't going to purchase hardware with the intent of Linux, rather do what I did and hope for the best.
Honestly, I feel that having to cherry pick the hardware to run maybe 40% of the market for gaming is a rough go for anyone that wants to game competitively. Also, with your added comments (I should've highlighted more in the final cut) it's a major downside imho that you can't just piece together a system and be good to go.
I do appreciate your feedback and guidance. I hadn't come across Phoronix yet so checking that out at the moment.
On the note of PopOS, I did find that extremely easy to install and get going (not that ubuntu or anything was hard). It just felt clean and had a lot of potential. I'm setting up something for my kids and that really might be my go to for their early PC experiences.
@@CodetheThings In the case of "hardware" I kinda approach it like this.... If I have an xBox I don't buy a PlayStation controller.... if I have a Macbook I don't buy a Windows only gaming mouse.... If I have a BMW I don't go to Ford for a new set of wheels.
I agree this may be confusing or irritating for people with legacy "Windows hardware", but that's where we are.
In the case of a "lighter" OS.. well no, not really in the case of Linux. Unlike Windows where we're constantly fighting with the system itself and all of the third party programs stealing processing resources in the background, Linux pretty much starts and stops user processes when you open and close a program. They all have a pretty standard set of innt process running regardless. So a "heavy" Linux distribution can be defined as 'bundled with software' not the actual processes its running at any given time. There are arguments that some desktop environments require more resources than others but the differences can be measured in the MB these days.
Linux gaming, the right hardware ( all AMD at the moment ) and the most up to date software stack ( Kernel and MESA ) that you can use.
I DO get where you're coming from though.
Sorry but here's yet another SteamOS 2 comment:
Going for SteamOS just because of the name is like a Mac user installing WinXP because it's the most popular on the charts 👽
Ubuntu is ok I guess. The Ubisoft and Origin launchers run pretty well when installed through Lutris in my experience. The Origin launcher crashes every now and then but it's pretty rare.
Unless you are a no life gamer who HAS to have all 500 games installed Linux is great. 99% of games I used to play ran on Linux when I switched and recently the few that only ran on Windows have become supported with the popularity of the Steam Deck. Generally, unless Devs go out of their way to make their game hell to run on Linux, it's going to run.
As far as work is concerned, I kind of need Adobe for work but alternatives like GIMP, photopea, avocode, etc work well enough for most use cases.
So any gamer who has LOCAL campaign games installed is a no life gamer?
Reality check..most online games that are online required have become such shitfests thanks to toxic brats hacking and swatting people when they lose...that it makes them no worth the time of those just wanting to enjoy gaming again.
This is where local story driven games rule such as Witcher 3
@@motoryzen the only games that don't work on Linux are in fact online games. If you only play singleplayer then all of your games will work.
@@spicynoodle7419 true to some extent...that extent being E.A.C required games..
CS:go still works to this day for me, but that's the only exception I make as far as what I line games.ill actually play these days
I pretty much only play online competitive games. I'll agree the singleplayer games are what played the best on the Steam Deck as well.
what they said