Winspace wheels are hooked rims so why would you run them in a hookless set up when Winspace says you can go up to a 100 psi. But you definitely right about one thing it is a preference of the rider and whatever makes them comfortable they should go with
Nice video. The suppliers are pushing a lot with tubeless setup. Personally, I think that it is inconvenient. The latex tubes can dampen the ride while maintaining speed and efficiency. But dude, what’s with the investment sponsorship. Does not look good or belong to a bike journalist. Prefer bike stuff here on this beautiful channel
Here is a little summary that I have come up with after listening all of the Marginal Gains podcasts by Josh Poertner. Tubeless and latex inner tubes are identical in terms of rolling resistance. TPU is lighter than latex, but is slower than latex. The slowest of course is regular inner tube. An amazing thing that Josh discovered while doing testing is that from the same manufacturer, the same tire model there can be a mold that will be producing noticeably faster tires. Vittoria writes the mold model on the side of the tire, all thought Josh didn't mention witch mold is the fastest. Other thing that Josh has said is about high tire pressure. It feels good and fast because you are bouncing around because of the high pressure, so the very thing that makes you think your going fast makes you slower. Lower pressure reduces the vibrations from the road in so making you faster. Awsome video! Keep it up!!
Depends on the road surface and which pressure matches your rims correctly for width. TPU tubes aren't as fast as tubeless. There's not a big amount of difference though.
You can't compare using two different tyres and two runs. Also, tyre pressure - you'd need to work out what the best tyre pressure was for each set up.
Tubeless tyre and tyre with tube , even from same brand and type, will still be different tyres (tubeless tyres are heavier etc) . I think gc just took what was available.
Maybe you should do the test with the same tire, same tire size. GP5000s TR in 28 on both wheelsets... GP5000 have less rolling resistance than Vittoria ;)
4 watts difference in rolling resistance wouldn't give more than a 6-8 sec difference over a course that long he has a 28-sec difference on a segment. It's damn impossible to say how much drag he saved going 25mm tires vs 28mm ones, but it would be fair to say that those winspace wheels are optimized for 25mm tires. even if those 25mm tires reduced drag by 2% ( I highly doubt is that much) that would be another 2-3 seconds. I'm not surprised by those results If you check the rolling resistance site all benchmark tests are done at 120 PSI, and all tires have significantly better rolling resistance at 120 PSI than at 70 PSI.
@@boogiexx Also its not necessarily a given that low pressures make you "faster" it largely depends on the roads, those roads he's riding are basically outdoor velodrome concrete surfaces. So in his case on a surface like that it really makes little sense to ride low pressure. In fact it will more than likely hinder him, riding low pressure. Here in the Uk the roads are a much rougher surface, what US/EU would describe as chip seal and my local road are very worn and broken. Trust me riding a 100psi on them (if you're light) is horrible. What i noticed the most and even by his own emission is that he's a big boy and the hookless rim were not even close for being the right pressure for him. The sag was pretty extreme.
and with proper wheels/rims like Dt Swiss. Forget Zipps and other hookless designs (hookless makes the rims easier and cheaper to produce + it is lighter and thats a big selling point in times where an everyday bike is close to a high perf. roadbike in terms of wheight). Every roadie knows that higher pressure means lower resistance and more speed, low pressure let`s the tire walk and you will crash at some point. If you want better corner grip, use softer compound tires. If you want better damping/comfort, choose wider tires. - It is that easy - Lowering the pressure is stupid.
@@boogiexx He needs to do it 10 times with each and average it out. Wind direction and speed would make such differences. 25s are simply faster. Wide tires is fast is a marketing myth. 25s are 3-5 watts faster in aero and the same in rolling rsistance if you account for the same psi % tire drop from stated max. You're right about optimization. The most imnportant component of a wheelset is that the tire forms the right shape in relation to the rim to produce an aerofoil. This is why people often think that lower pressures are faster. It is more the case of preventing the tire from bulging larger than the external width of the rim.
Long time racer here - comfort is fast, especially at the end of a race and long training sessions/blocks. I promise you if you have a more comfortable setup you will train better, longer, and go faster. Ditch the mindset that your road bike should treat you like crap.
Excellent content GC! Tubeless generally is faster on rough roads like chip seal. GP 5000s with latex tubes roles faster than most tubeless set up’s. The Tubless GP 5000 S TR are the the fastest. Not the lightest but faster than those Vittoria’s. I’m 200 lbs, right now I’m running GP 5000 25mm rubber tubes 100 in back 95 in front. Very responsive and comfortable. Rough Houston roads no flats in over a year.
That's wild. I'm in Utah and when I ran tubes I'd get a flat every week. Going to Tubeless hasn't stopped punctures, but 90% of them seal up without me having to stop. It seems to depend on location a lot and pavement quality. When I do get a major flat (usually 2-3 times a year doing 4k-6k miles), it's a pretty nasty situation.
Interesting test. Yes there were quite a few variables but these mostly just show that there is far more to the argument than just tubes vs tubeless. I run both (and have been for over 4 years)...tubeless is fantastic when it works and a nightmare when it doesn't.
Exactly. Tubeless is nice and all, but can be a total nightmare. Almost all nightmares associated with tubeless is due to the tubeless tape. I’ve had one wheel explode because the tape was leaking air into the rim. I’d only set my wheels tubeless if they have no holes in the rim bed (like campagnolo and fulcrum). I dont wanna have to dismount and remount the tires every 6 months or so to check the tape. It’s messy when dismounting and a pain in the ass to install tubeless tires.
Just FYI. It is stated in the manual of the plastic tubes they get hot and would have increased pressure after some time riding. If where you apply the air is cool (or colder) and where you ride is hot, you can can get approximately an increase of 9PSI. Just be careful with the maximum PSI of your tubes, tire, and wheel.
I've been running tubeless road bike for 2 years now. Not had a single puncture (that I've known about). However when changing tyres I've found that I have in fact had two holes where the sealant has done it's job and I had no idea it had even punctured. Ride is much more comfortable, the bike feels much more stable on the road due to the increased grip, and I feel a lot more confident in the corners. Once you know what you are doing, it's not even too much of a pain to set up. Just check your tyre pressures regularly and top the sealant up every 3-4 months. I run at 60/65 psi front/rear and weigh 82 kg.
Been tubeless for 4 years now, and never punctured. I am on Swiss roads though. I run slightly high pressure than you 80/85 on 28mm, but the road surfaces allow it here. They are easily as fast as my 23mm at 120psi (which I still use near daily), with much better handling and comfort.
Thanks for the video GC :) Here is my take: TL 25mm 90psi front and TL 28mm 85psi back. I`m bicycle mechanic, scandinavian, 70kg, ride 20000km a year - races, training, commuting. Started with TL 3-4 ago and gone TL on all my bikes last year, because i was annoyed of the issue that you lose too much much pressure on a 4h+ ride with latex tubes. Tried almost all brands and their top tyres + all kinds of tubes and sealant. Was most impressed about Schwalbe One tl tires, all of their 3 generations where superior and they lasted the longest. But still not happy yet - Looking forward to mount the Michelin power cup tl`s 2023.
and what kind of sealant do you use for such a pressure? has there ever been a puncture that you caught successfully? isn't it used to splash when the liquid breaks?
Here in Oregon, the roads are much rougher than what I saw in your video. I’d lose my teeth at 120 psi! I recently changed from Stan’s to Silca sealant. Highly recommend for road use! After tires get older (but not yet worn out), I found that Stan’s wouldn’t hold road pressures. With Silca, I salvaged life from a tire that I was about to toss. Very happy. (I have no relationship with Silca. Paid $38 for the big bottle and put in all three of my bikes’ tires.)
Stan's sealant is the absolute worst. I couldn't get it to seal even the smallest punctures. Orange sealant is my favorite, works very well. Haven't tried Silca.
I'm using silca on my new bike. I'v recently done a 150 race in Luxemburg with gp5000 str(25 mm/95 psi). It was my first experience with tubeless. Half way, I noticed a lot of sealant on my legs and heard the noise of a puncture. I was about to stop on the side of the road when the guy behind me told me that it had sealed. I finished the race without problem. Once arrived, I checked the tire and noticed a huge hole (+5 mm in diameter). The pressure had dropped a bit but nothing concerning. I was lucky but I'm convinced that silca played a major role in preventing me to stop the race. I don't want to go back to tube's for racing...
@@vincentlannoy4414 Great story! A few years ago, I participated in the Seattle to Portland (STP; 207 miles) ride (not race.) There was an area with broken glass. Half way through, a rider told me about the leak. We pulled off, I spun the tire, and it sealed. Similar result: I lost a bit of pressure, but rode it like that to the end. In my case, it was a new tire with Stan’s sealant, but my puncture was small. The tire had a short life though. The Stan’s sealant was fine at the lower pressure, but couldn’t handle 70psi well. Soon, I rode it too flat, which puts small leaks around the tire. Eventually, it goes in the trash with tread remaining. (I should have bought latex tubes to finish its life.) Today, I have a similarly abused tire, and Silca has plugged every tiny leak. 70 psi holds for days. Great stuff!
I've been running tubeless for the past 3 years. I've been very happy with the performance of the tubeless. I have hooked rims, therefore I run higher pressures...90 rear and 85 front for 26mm Pirellis. Only had 1 flat which was a hole in the sidewall. I was able to get home, but the sealant would not reach the hole in the sidewall so I had to replace the tire. I don't see myself going back to tubes.
Great video GC! Haven’t run tubeless myself on road, love it for my MTB. I’m running P zero race with vittoria comp latex at ~90psi. Great combo, smooth ride
finally back my friend great video what a great diference you note on using tubes with the tyres as you said clearly whitout tubes do you feel every part or anormally in the road more clearly and with the tubes do you ride more confortably as you said the bike also oh men your bike is sooo cool cheers from venezuela and keep riddinng man
@@GCPerformance18 finally man the doctors and the antibiotics kick the ass of the bacteria that i had on my stomach and came back recently for the first time but now i am ok and i got to get back on track o have many of your videos to see brother cheers and keep on pushing all right by the way nice place to ride near the beach is amaizing man ! Take care bro
I'm with other ones suggesting that you should have run slightly higher tire pressure. We use the Silca tire pressure calculator at work and it breaks it down pretty easily depending on what size tire and how much you weigh and the surface you ride on and I'm pretty sure you would be up around 85+ psi on tubeless depending on tire width I just ran the numbers for you on Silca tire calculator and on a 25c width tire they're saying you should be at 103 PSI on the rear and 100 PSI on the front. So u were way under pressure!
I have hookless wheels and on the back of Conti’s box they recommend 73 psi. Now on my other bike I have a tubeless setup but the wheels are not hookless so I run 85 on the front and 90 on the back. I guess what I’m asking is does that Silca calculator take hookless wheels into consideration?
@@dothat15the calculators are trying to generate the lowest rolling resistance pressure in the real world. There is probably a disclaimer somewhere on the page about safety, but don’t exceed the engineering standard of your wheel set even if Silca says that rolls better, those calculators are solely for rolling resistance. In the real world, barring structural limits, that pressure ends up being very good for lots of reasons (comfort, grip, flat protection, etc)
I love my tubes and clinchers! I actually have Michelin Power Time Trial tires with latex tubes on 80mm carbon wheels....lowest rolling resistance! I averaged 21.25 mph for 34 miles. My bike is a 2012 Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod!
GC, this was an eye opener. A lot of people talk about eliminating other variables but these are YOUR variables. So it may well be a better test than one striving to eliminate variables. Thanks GC. And what the hell is your first name? I’m guessing it’s not GC!
Thank you very much. I did it at the pressure of what the maximum tire pressure is allowed for the new hookless systems. That’s why I figured it was a good pressure. And my name is Grant :)
Went tubeless like 3 years ago after a flat on a group ride. Haven't had a flat since then, but several punctures. The sealant always did its job, though I do carry a spare tube just in case. For tire pressure, I'm going lower and lower. I'm at 60-65psi-ish and the supple ride is primo on Conti 5000 TL 28s. Even if it's slower I don't feel held back at all, it's my cardio at this point
Lower pressures definitely help comfort. I used to run 100psi and got a lot of vibration through the bars. Now I run around 80 and the difference is huge. Much better ride.
Great video, really like the real life power of 200 watts, not some crazy 350 watts for five miles very few people can hold. I feel ya on the weight Im 222lb.
Nice video. Glad you at least investigated going tubeless. As someone else pointed out you should have used the same tires. Recall reading the GP5000 tires have better (low) rolling resistance than the Vittoria Corsa N.EXT (plan to buy them due to better puncture protection than GP 5000)
Don’t recall if you stated your weight but 72 seems a bit low for a tubeless road tire. Most riders I know in the 165-175lb range are running in the 80 to 90lb range.
@@FernandoOliveira-tm5cq Its a simple fact, as of today - heavier riders shouldnt use hookless; they simply cant get to the pressures theyre supposed to ride at.
@@GCPerformance18 sorry didn’t do my research but how does the comp rate to the pro? What is really the difference. And is that the bike you did the test on? Thx
Enjoyed the video. How about tubeless at higher pressure like 80-85 psi. Wonder if that close the average speed gap and still be as comfortable as the tubes
I ride the same section of A1A with ZIPP 303s, latex tubes & Pirelli TL's & know every bump on that road. I tried tubeless & it wasn't worth the extra ag. Love your vids!
I'm riding tubeless, tubes and tubulars on different wheel sets. I'm gonna ditch tubeless as it's just not worth the hassle and it's never going to reliably seal a (measured) 27-28mm tire at reasonable (as in FAST) pressures. Corsa clinchers and Latex tubes and Corsa Tubulars are still the benchmark for me. In fact, tubulars deliver the best of both worlds for me: I can ride high pressures and have the resulting low rolling resistance AND still have a really comfy tire feel. And, apart from one huge sidewall cut I have so far always been able to seal my tubular out on the road with sealant in case of a puncture and continue my ride. Clinchers on the other hand are just the easiest to live with. Couple of tubes in your back pocket and nothing can really go wrong.
Hi I run the Winspace Hypers run tubeless with 85psi rear and 80psi front on 25mm Vittoria Corsa's (Im 80kg) it works very well on the rougher chip roads here in New Zealand. I have ridden and raced for the last 12 years running tubes in other wheels at higher pressures ie100 psi plus. I have no doubt higher pressures on smooth roads is faster but once the road is more coarse the lower pressures come into there own and are way more comfy. Great vid by the way
and what kind of sealant do you use for such a pressure? has there ever been a puncture that you caught successfully? isn't it used to splash when the liquid breaks?
Tubeless just seems like to much of an hassle. Not to mention the added weight of the tires. When I run my tires at low pressure it feels sluggish. The bike just doesn't accelerate the way it should
How is it a hassle when it seals punctures by itself? I’ve never seen a tube puncture seal itself. if it did, wouldn’t have to bother about sending my bike to the mech to have him replace the tube for me every time I get a puncture.
You are between 90 and 91kg...as a much larger dude myself, I am about 137kg! I just changed to tubeless on hooked TLR rims and run 90ish psi and really love it.
@@GCPerformance18 here's the thing. If the breeze is anything different than a direct cross wind (90 degrees to your direction of path) then one 1 leg you will have a head wind component and the other a tail wind component. In real life the perfect steady direct cross wind is nearly impossible. A better test would be indoors with no wind. Maybe a velodrome?
I love this dude! I wish my bike shop was run by him. Love the honesty and providing facts for all of us normal riders. Plus the bikes he shows are 🔥🔥🔥🔥If I win the lottery I’m flying straight to Florida.
11:20 I'm confused. Numbers do not match. Audio states: 22.3 mph for tubeless and 23 mph for tubes. But screenshots show 22.2 for tubeless and 21.5 for tubes.
Great content! I like you prefer tubes to the liquid setup, seen some guys trying to fix tubeless tires on the road and its messy to say the least. Besides the bumps may feel more subdued with liquid but nothing beats the stiffness and responsiveness the tubes offer
I haven't finished the video yet but imo for your weight I would have ran 80 psi for the tubeless and about 95 to 100 on the tubes, just my opinion. Good effort and thanks for the data, as soon as I'm done watching lol.
Thanks for the interesting comparisons. Riding here in Florida just an hour north of Tampa, I have switched back to tubes. Reason is cost and hot weathert! Yes, I wrench my own bikes and with both Orange and Stans, I find the sealant dries up quicker in the tires here in Florida than further up North, say like NYC and WDC, where I have experience. Yes, I am cheap and have spent hours cleaning out dried sealant out of tires too. To summerize: I think your comparisions are more helpful for a heavier rider, For a light rider (150lbs and cycling competitively since the early 1980's), I still use tubes-- if I don't know the conditions of the road and specially if I plan on being out for 4 hours or more like for a century event. I have a tubeless setup, have lots of hours on them as well to compare and don't trust it as much as I have hit decending speeds over 55mph and don't even want to think about the heat buildup to these wheels during braking!
Great Content! I used tubes before but switch to tubeless. I’m 212 lbs and using Pirelli tlr with 100 psi in rear and 95 in front. It feels great all and it’s been a year and never experience flat since day 1.
Hey that camera coming in clutch for you man, looks really smooth and the color grading looks great!!! I'm hoping by the end of the year, I'll be able to to upgrade to a carbon fiber bike and wheels! Always enjoy your videos man!
Do some serious research before, carbon fibre bikes aren't necessarily an upgrade. There are now alloy bikes out there at a fraction of the price that perform just as well. If you want aero then yeah carbon is where it's at. BUT it's not the do all and end all. The more important thing is to get a bike that has no special parts that you can't get hold of in 1,2 maybe 5 years' time, a frame that is bang up to date with modern standards that will carry you into the future as much as possible is more important than the material its made from. For that I'd look to smaller manufacturers to get an idea as to where things are going, they tend to be more forward-thinking than the big boys. Mason, for example, are/were spec'ing road bikes with 35mm tiers back in 2015, the bigger brands some 7 years later are only now following suite and still aren't as wide in some cases. Velo's r+1, for example, is a good indication that everything will be (maybe) 1x in 5 years' time and completely wireless they also have some very progressive frame design because of this. I'd say if you can wait a little longer do so, we're at a tipping point right now and I feel that frame design is going to have a big shake-up in the next 2 years, everything will be about symmetry something that will only be possible with 1x. Just some thoughts.
@@gaza4543 Haha thanks for the feedback! I've been riding bikes for around 9 years but I was always the broke rider with the bike that's a bit too underwhelming in performance for his own good lol. about 3 1/2 years back, got a bargain on a Alu bike with a carbon fork with 5800 105 groupset on it and have been riding ever since, riding at least 50km everyday if I can. Recently I got into clubs and went on some group rides and it was the first time where I honestly was feeling like my bike was holding me back despite me putting the effort to do so while the other guys were having a breeze (my avg is around 250W ish since the guys were hitting around avg of 35km). So that was probably a really big tipping point for me in terms me changing from 'thinking of buying' to 'considering to buy'. But I've always been price smart to ever pull a trigger on a Cervelo or S-works so I'm def going to seeing some smaller companies for the package deal. Plus if you buy a bike, I feel like it's only tradition that you gotta buy a new kit! So probably I'll have to wait to see if I can collect all that for myself for a good carbon bike
Love the videos and your effort here but… , WAY too many variables in your test to be valid ( tire brand and size). Man , those roads looked smooth! ….also a factor in the “comparison”. With tubeless you wouldn’t have to stop to fix a puncture( given quality sealant) , heck , in many cases you wouldn’t even notice a puncture. Loved the video and filming quality though.
I'm curious to ride tubeless, I do have tubeless wheel set... I feel like I'd get less time changing tires since the tubeless liquid seals the holes right, or it should at least..
For clarification on my confusion, your riding WinSpace Hyper wheels and talk about having a link for them in the description, however the link is for Elite Drive 50D's. Not so much an issue, but now wondering if you also have experience with the Drive wheels and which you might suggest of the other? P.S. - Love the videos!
Thank you for the great video. There is one big bias in your test. You should have used the same tyres on both tests. The GP5000 are the faster tyres than the Vittorias!
Vitoria is not a comparable tyre (has higher rolling resistance-check bikerollingresistance), however, if you want the fastest tube setup go for latex inner tube, they are even faster in comparable tyres (gp5000 Vs gp5000 str), they don't mess when you have a flat and they are cheaper than tpu tubes.
25mm 5000STR at the front wheel and 28mm GP 5000 tube type with latex inner tube is my personal sweetspot on my wheelset (rim brake). Enough smoothness for me at the front and a remarkable low rolling resistence . With this setup I got the best speed results. My personal conclusion: The best of both worlds
@@BorjaAOS You could install a Vittoria Air Liner at the front wheel with the STR tubeless tire and replace the latex tube at the rear wheel by a good TPU tube (Schwalbe Aerothan for example) for better puncture protection. I always use enough baby powder when I install an inner tube to reduce friction between tire and inner tube. Rolling Resistence Com measured around 1 W difference at 30 kph between both types of inner tubes.
My switch to tubeless has been very positive. I would not go hookless rim because of the limitations of air pressure you can add. Sealant takes care of all the small puncture as long as you have sealant in the tires. Likely the reason why riders get flats because of dry sealant.
I feel like it comes down to the first time the rider switches over, just like anything in life a person can have two different experiences with something, and in a lot of cases people install tubeless and they dont have any problems and it runs amazing with no flats, but then there are the other people who try it out, they get a flat that the sealant cant fix and it becomes costly and wont fix, so they get a bad taste in there mouth from it..... I never had issues with tubes with something I cant fix so I dont feel the need to change it, I can also run 90 psi in tire as well to get more comfort or put 28s with a tube in there as well.
Agreed. I'm 165 and run 85/88 on my tubeless 25mm's, even a little less for crits... GC, use the silica tire pressure calculator and run it again. Would be interested to see.......
Lovely video! Some lab test showed that TPU have higher rolling resistance than tubeless, but in the outdoor you have to take in account many more variables. Now it would be nice to compare TPU vs latex inner tubes :)
I used tubeless setup since 2019, with Conti gp5000TL 25c with 100psi. Only have One problem because i used a bad quality selant. For me i love ride tubeless
@@luismartinho7044 The black/pink bottle which says Tufo TMEL? If yes, do you know why the description says Tufo (tl) tires only? And did you tried Silca ult. sealant yet? I had a good time so far with Silca :)
I don't run low enough pressures to want tubeless offroad. I dont like the squirmy tire feeling. If I keep my tires inflated I rarely have problems with tubes.
cool vid, pro quality. sl7 is one love too (got one myself). would love to see a longer test with exact same tyres (say gp500 TR + latex vs TL). I've just switched to latex (vittoria latex + s-works turbo 26mm) myself, and not sure if it's placebo or maybe it really works, but the bike feels more supple than with butyl tubes at same 110psi pressure. next tyre set will be GP5000's for sure, but if tubeless is so much better/faster might need start saving up for new wheelset too (thanks specialized).
I think it says a lot that you are experiencing bouncing on a smooth road. 100 psi wouldn't be unreasonable for a guy of your size on 25c, though. I'd leave the 110-120psi for 23c. Also Conti GP5K are tested to be about 5w faster per tyre at equal pressure, so that is a big error in your data.
I would have liked to see a repeat with the tubed set up at a lower psi. I am 185lb and run tubed at 71psi. Comfort does equal speed over more distance.
Could you do a comparison between speed of rim brake bike vs disc? There seems to be a lot of suggestions that disc are slower because of more aerodynamic drag? Is that true?
In crosswinds, yes, disc brakes generate more drag, but head on, not much difference, if any. Specialized did a comparison in their wind tunnel a few years ago.
It took me time to adjust from tubes to tubeless. But I climb a lot and on days I ride I’m gonna for 3-4 hours. My area has so much debris and I flatted watch too much. I enjoy the security of tubeless. My only option with tubes was gatorskins. But they’re heavy and slow. Also the roads here are bumpy because of tractors grinding it up as the drive on roads. So it’s nice to run that low psi.
your numbers at the end as you stated were 22.3 tubeless and 23 for tubed but your on screen numbers reported 22.2 tubeless and 21.5 tubed . was that a strava issue
Here in the UK most of our roads are not smooth so this is where running tubeless at lower pressures and on wider tyres makes a big difference. Smoother is definitely faster. I'm 75kg and running 28s tubeless on zipp303 firecrest at 52psi. Tyres are solid. When I ride my old bike to work on 26s running higher pressure it feels horrible. I would never go back to running 100psi on skinny tyres with tubes. Never had any issues running tubeless it's so easy to set up I don't know what all the fuss is about.
if that works for you, then run it but you are so close to running a hybrid tire psi there, might as well put a gravel tire on there and enjoy the extra grip. but i understand sometimes people need a certain tire for certain terrain but for the general public it is not needed
It's puncture vine season in my parts, my last ride I pulled 2 puncture vine thorns out of my front tire at different times. The sealant sealed the tire right away. Talk about a time saver. I've never had an issue putting tubeless tires on.
you have a similar story to some people with tubes who say the same thing, they dont have issues that some people have with tubes..... it is all subjective and eveyrone has there own riding experience
From this comparison 120 and 72 is big difference pressure. Most of the riders are not foing to ride just 5 miles . And the most problem if how our body to hold fatigue, more vibration equal to more fatigue . Balance is the key . But i still prefer tube than tubeless . Even i run low psi with gp5000 latex tube never get flat tires , i tried tubolito but i dont really like the feels . I will try pirelli tpu tube . great video !!
I hope you all enjoyed the video!!!! I had a great time filming it and look forward to doing more tests in the future!!!
test is pretty invalid since you're using different tires...
Love your vids but this is probably the worst one, too many variables changed
Winspace wheels are hooked rims so why would you run them in a hookless set up when Winspace says you can go up to a 100 psi. But you definitely right about one thing it is a preference of the rider and whatever makes them comfortable they should go with
Nice video. The suppliers are pushing a lot with tubeless setup. Personally, I think that it is inconvenient. The latex tubes can dampen the ride while maintaining speed and efficiency. But dude, what’s with the investment sponsorship. Does not look good or belong to a bike journalist. Prefer bike stuff here on this beautiful channel
Hi GC, what tubes did you use?
Here is a little summary that I have come up with after listening all of the Marginal Gains podcasts by Josh Poertner. Tubeless and latex inner tubes are identical in terms of rolling resistance. TPU is lighter than latex, but is slower than latex. The slowest of course is regular inner tube. An amazing thing that Josh discovered while doing testing is that from the same manufacturer, the same tire model there can be a mold that will be producing noticeably faster tires. Vittoria writes the mold model on the side of the tire, all thought Josh didn't mention witch mold is the fastest. Other thing that Josh has said is about high tire pressure. It feels good and fast because you are bouncing around because of the high pressure, so the very thing that makes you think your going fast makes you slower. Lower pressure reduces the vibrations from the road in so making you faster. Awsome video! Keep it up!!
Depends on the road surface and which pressure matches your rims correctly for width. TPU tubes aren't as fast as tubeless. There's not a big amount of difference though.
You can't compare using two different tyres and two runs. Also, tyre pressure - you'd need to work out what the best tyre pressure was for each set up.
Silca Pro Tire Pressure Calculator
Tubeless tyre and tyre with tube , even from same brand and type, will still be different tyres (tubeless tyres are heavier etc) . I think gc just took what was available.
For his weight 72 psi seems too low
@@apsbentom 72psi is the max pressure recommended on hookless rims
Then isn't it better to get a 30c or 32c to maintain 70
Maybe you should do the test with the same tire, same tire size.
GP5000s TR in 28 on both wheelsets...
GP5000 have less rolling resistance than Vittoria ;)
4 watts difference in rolling resistance wouldn't give more than a 6-8 sec difference over a course that long he has a 28-sec difference on a segment. It's damn impossible to say how much drag he saved going 25mm tires vs 28mm ones, but it would be fair to say that those winspace wheels are optimized for 25mm tires. even if those 25mm tires reduced drag by 2% ( I highly doubt is that much) that would be another 2-3 seconds. I'm not surprised by those results If you check the rolling resistance site all benchmark tests are done at 120 PSI, and all tires have significantly better rolling resistance at 120 PSI than at 70 PSI.
@@boogiexx Also its not necessarily a given that low pressures make you "faster" it largely depends on the roads, those roads he's riding are basically outdoor velodrome concrete surfaces. So in his case on a surface like that it really makes little sense to ride low pressure. In fact it will more than likely hinder him, riding low pressure. Here in the Uk the roads are a much rougher surface, what US/EU would describe as chip seal and my local road are very worn and broken. Trust me riding a 100psi on them (if you're light) is horrible. What i noticed the most and even by his own emission is that he's a big boy and the hookless rim were not even close for being the right pressure for him. The sag was pretty extreme.
and with proper wheels/rims like Dt Swiss. Forget Zipps and other hookless designs (hookless makes the rims easier and cheaper to produce + it is lighter and thats a big selling point in times where an everyday bike is close to a high perf. roadbike in terms of wheight). Every roadie knows that higher pressure means lower resistance and more speed, low pressure let`s the tire walk and you will crash at some point.
If you want better corner grip, use softer compound tires. If you want better damping/comfort, choose wider tires. - It is that easy - Lowering the pressure is stupid.
@@boogiexx He needs to do it 10 times with each and average it out. Wind direction and speed would make such differences. 25s are simply faster. Wide tires is fast is a marketing myth. 25s are 3-5 watts faster in aero and the same in rolling rsistance if you account for the same psi % tire drop from stated max. You're right about optimization. The most imnportant component of a wheelset is that the tire forms the right shape in relation to the rim to produce an aerofoil. This is why people often think that lower pressures are faster. It is more the case of preventing the tire from bulging larger than the external width of the rim.
Long time racer here - comfort is fast, especially at the end of a race and long training sessions/blocks. I promise you if you have a more comfortable setup you will train better, longer, and go faster. Ditch the mindset that your road bike should treat you like crap.
have the same mindset, have been riding more putitng out more PRs and KOMs since going tubeless
makes sense, the more comfortable u are the better you can perform
Holy shit. I didnt expect the masterworks virus to infiltrate the cycling channels lol.
Chris Froome was pitching as well
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad these kinds of scams are everywhere. Damn.
So glad to see this test done at normal person wattage. Thanks!
lol that was the goal, to give everyday results
Excellent content GC! Tubeless generally is faster on rough roads like chip seal. GP 5000s with latex tubes roles faster than most tubeless set up’s. The Tubless GP 5000 S TR are the the fastest. Not the lightest but faster than those Vittoria’s. I’m 200 lbs, right now I’m running GP 5000 25mm rubber tubes 100 in back 95 in front. Very responsive and comfortable. Rough Houston roads no flats in over a year.
That's wild. I'm in Utah and when I ran tubes I'd get a flat every week. Going to Tubeless hasn't stopped punctures, but 90% of them seal up without me having to stop. It seems to depend on location a lot and pavement quality. When I do get a major flat (usually 2-3 times a year doing 4k-6k miles), it's a pretty nasty situation.
Interesting test. Yes there were quite a few variables but these mostly just show that there is far more to the argument than just tubes vs tubeless. I run both (and have been for over 4 years)...tubeless is fantastic when it works and a nightmare when it doesn't.
Exactly. Tubeless is nice and all, but can be a total nightmare. Almost all nightmares associated with tubeless is due to the tubeless tape. I’ve had one wheel explode because the tape was leaking air into the rim. I’d only set my wheels tubeless if they have no holes in the rim bed (like campagnolo and fulcrum). I dont wanna have to dismount and remount the tires every 6 months or so to check the tape. It’s messy when dismounting and a pain in the ass to install tubeless tires.
Mans out here looking like a SNACK!
Hahahaha thank you Patrick!!
Bro!!! I love this style of video! Awesome job and can’t wait to see more like this!
I just ordered the winspace R45 yesterday, can't wait.
Just FYI. It is stated in the manual of the plastic tubes they get hot and would have increased pressure after some time riding. If where you apply the air is cool (or colder) and where you ride is hot, you can can get approximately an increase of 9PSI. Just be careful with the maximum PSI of your tubes, tire, and wheel.
I think that pressure goes up with temp in tubeless also. Pretty much anything that holds air.
I've been running tubeless road bike for 2 years now. Not had a single puncture (that I've known about). However when changing tyres I've found that I have in fact had two holes where the sealant has done it's job and I had no idea it had even punctured. Ride is much more comfortable, the bike feels much more stable on the road due to the increased grip, and I feel a lot more confident in the corners. Once you know what you are doing, it's not even too much of a pain to set up. Just check your tyre pressures regularly and top the sealant up every 3-4 months. I run at 60/65 psi front/rear and weigh 82 kg.
Been tubeless for 4 years now, and never punctured. I am on Swiss roads though. I run slightly high pressure than you 80/85 on 28mm, but the road surfaces allow it here. They are easily as fast as my 23mm at 120psi (which I still use near daily), with much better handling and comfort.
Thanks for the video GC :)
Here is my take: TL 25mm 90psi front and TL 28mm 85psi back.
I`m bicycle mechanic, scandinavian, 70kg, ride 20000km a year - races, training, commuting. Started with TL 3-4 ago and gone TL on all my bikes last year, because i was annoyed of the issue that you lose too much much pressure on a 4h+ ride with latex tubes. Tried almost all brands and their top tyres + all kinds of tubes and sealant. Was most impressed about Schwalbe One tl tires, all of their 3 generations where superior and they lasted the longest. But still not happy yet - Looking forward to mount the Michelin power cup tl`s 2023.
and what kind of sealant do you use for such a pressure? has there ever been a puncture that you caught successfully? isn't it used to splash when the liquid breaks?
nice jersey..... thanks for the experiment... now we know.. im sticking to tubes...
GCN Performance
lmao
This is the best test on UA-cam that have a general advantage of tpu tubes. Great job!
Wow, thank you!
Tubes for life!!!!!!
"Air is my friend"
Love it 😀
Here in Oregon, the roads are much rougher than what I saw in your video. I’d lose my teeth at 120 psi!
I recently changed from Stan’s to Silca sealant. Highly recommend for road use! After tires get older (but not yet worn out), I found that Stan’s wouldn’t hold road pressures. With Silca, I salvaged life from a tire that I was about to toss. Very happy. (I have no relationship with Silca. Paid $38 for the big bottle and put in all three of my bikes’ tires.)
Stan's sealant is the absolute worst. I couldn't get it to seal even the smallest punctures. Orange sealant is my favorite, works very well. Haven't tried Silca.
@@cokebottles6919 check out this comparison… ua-cam.com/video/s4FHCg72dXQ/v-deo.html
I'm using silca on my new bike. I'v recently done a 150 race in Luxemburg with gp5000 str(25 mm/95 psi). It was my first experience with tubeless. Half way, I noticed a lot of sealant on my legs and heard the noise of a puncture. I was about to stop on the side of the road when the guy behind me told me that it had sealed. I finished the race without problem. Once arrived, I checked the tire and noticed a huge hole (+5 mm in diameter). The pressure had dropped a bit but nothing concerning. I was lucky but I'm convinced that silca played a major role in preventing me to stop the race. I don't want to go back to tube's for racing...
@@vincentlannoy4414 Great story! A few years ago, I participated in the Seattle to Portland (STP; 207 miles) ride (not race.) There was an area with broken glass. Half way through, a rider told me about the leak. We pulled off, I spun the tire, and it sealed. Similar result: I lost a bit of pressure, but rode it like that to the end. In my case, it was a new tire with Stan’s sealant, but my puncture was small.
The tire had a short life though. The Stan’s sealant was fine at the lower pressure, but couldn’t handle 70psi well. Soon, I rode it too flat, which puts small leaks around the tire. Eventually, it goes in the trash with tread remaining. (I should have bought latex tubes to finish its life.)
Today, I have a similarly abused tire, and Silca has plugged every tiny leak. 70 psi holds for days. Great stuff!
Hey man silcas the bomb i use their latex tubes and swear by them
what is this production value !! good stuff haha ! the angles, the audio the kit, great stuff
thanks so much!!
Thanks for the videos. Personally I’m a tubeless fan (yes I do my own tubeless set up and learned the knuckle buster) do to what I like to ride.
Right on
Preach, brother.
yesssssir!!!!
You’re a beast I love this channel. Keep producing awesome content. Idk why but I love this channel
that made my night!!!! thank you!!!!
I've been running tubeless for the past 3 years. I've been very happy with the performance of the tubeless. I have hooked rims, therefore I run higher pressures...90 rear and 85 front for 26mm Pirellis. Only had 1 flat which was a hole in the sidewall. I was able to get home, but the sealant would not reach the hole in the sidewall so I had to replace the tire. I don't see myself going back to tubes.
I went tubeless after getting flats all the time from the tubes getting pinched. My roads are so bad.
How heavy are you? That pressure seems to be pretty high for 26mm tubeless.
@@B_KFC_Leg I'm about 200 lbs. Like GC, I'm old school.I prefer a slightly stiffer ride.
Great video GC! Haven’t run tubeless myself on road, love it for my MTB. I’m running P zero race with vittoria comp latex at ~90psi. Great combo, smooth ride
I appreicate it
finally back my friend great video what a great diference you note on using tubes with the tyres as you said clearly whitout tubes do you feel every part or anormally in the road more clearly and with the tubes do you ride more confortably as you said the bike also oh men your bike is sooo cool cheers from venezuela and keep riddinng man
hapy to see you backj man!!!! love to see it and thanks for watching!
@@GCPerformance18 finally man the doctors and the antibiotics kick the ass of the bacteria that i had on my stomach and came back recently for the first time but now i am ok and i got to get back on track o have many of your videos to see brother cheers and keep on pushing all right by the way nice place to ride near the beach is amaizing man ! Take care bro
Finally have time to catch up on all your vids and GC your vids keep on getting better! Keep up the great work man👍🏼
I have been trying and thjank you so much for that comment, It means a lot my friend :)
The quality of these shots 🔥 upgrade
I'm with other ones suggesting that you should have run slightly higher tire pressure. We use the Silca tire pressure calculator at work and it breaks it down pretty easily depending on what size tire and how much you weigh and the surface you ride on and I'm pretty sure you would be up around 85+ psi on tubeless depending on tire width
I just ran the numbers for you on Silca tire calculator and on a 25c width tire they're saying you should be at 103 PSI on the rear and 100 PSI on the front. So u were way under pressure!
I have hookless wheels and on the back of Conti’s box they recommend 73 psi. Now on my other bike I have a tubeless setup but the wheels are not hookless so I run 85 on the front and 90 on the back. I guess what I’m asking is does that Silca calculator take hookless wheels into consideration?
The idea is to reinforce that the pros have it wrong and tubes are best. This info should not be included in the vid as it doesn't fit the narrative.
@@dothat15 yes, there is a checkbox for rim type
Here's a good tyre pressure guide I use. axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure
@@dothat15the calculators are trying to generate the lowest rolling resistance pressure in the real world. There is probably a disclaimer somewhere on the page about safety, but don’t exceed the engineering standard of your wheel set even if Silca says that rolls better, those calculators are solely for rolling resistance. In the real world, barring structural limits, that pressure ends up being very good for lots of reasons (comfort, grip, flat protection, etc)
I love my tubes and clinchers! I actually have Michelin Power Time Trial tires with latex tubes on 80mm carbon wheels....lowest rolling resistance! I averaged 21.25 mph for 34 miles. My bike is a 2012 Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod!
GC, this was an eye opener. A lot of people talk about eliminating other variables but these are YOUR variables. So it may well be a better test than one striving to eliminate variables. Thanks GC. And what the hell is your first name? I’m guessing it’s not GC!
Thank you very much. I did it at the pressure of what the maximum tire pressure is allowed for the new hookless systems. That’s why I figured it was a good pressure. And my name is Grant :)
Went tubeless like 3 years ago after a flat on a group ride. Haven't had a flat since then, but several punctures. The sealant always did its job, though I do carry a spare tube just in case. For tire pressure, I'm going lower and lower. I'm at 60-65psi-ish and the supple ride is primo on Conti 5000 TL 28s. Even if it's slower I don't feel held back at all, it's my cardio at this point
Lower pressures definitely help comfort. I used to run 100psi and got a lot of vibration through the bars. Now I run around 80 and the difference is huge. Much better ride.
Great video, really like the real life power of 200 watts, not some crazy 350 watts for five miles very few people can hold. I feel ya on the weight Im 222lb.
hahhah that was my angle here lol, try to give people real world numbners and not some race 1st class number
Nice video. Glad you at least investigated going tubeless. As someone else pointed out you should have used the same tires. Recall reading the GP5000 tires have better (low) rolling resistance than the Vittoria Corsa N.EXT (plan to buy them due to better puncture protection than GP 5000)
Don’t recall if you stated your weight but 72 seems a bit low for a tubeless road tire. Most riders I know in the 165-175lb range are running in the 80 to 90lb range.
Exactly this. For 200lbs, GC should be closer to 100psi, not 70.
@@silverburn55 I think the reason was that he wanted to test pressures used with hookless rims
@@FernandoOliveira-tm5cq But if he knew before he set off that the pressures would be too low for his weight...?
@@FernandoOliveira-tm5cq Its a simple fact, as of today - heavier riders shouldnt use hookless; they simply cant get to the pressures theyre supposed to ride at.
so why are companies making only hookless wheels like zipp, they are pushing this tech on everything and more and more companies are going this route
TUBULARS!! ALWAYS!! Nothing else will ever go on MY road bike!! and 22mm!!!
haahhaha hel yea!!! this is what cycling is made of
What tarmac are u riding pro? How can I get. 58cm? I’m in NJ. Thanks
i have a 58 comp in stock nI can swap out components I have sram froce and ultegra
@@GCPerformance18 sorry didn’t do my research but how does the comp rate to the pro? What is really the difference. And is that the bike you did the test on? Thx
Enjoyed the video. How about tubeless at higher pressure like 80-85 psi. Wonder if that close the average speed gap and still be as comfortable as the tubes
i did it at the pressure of the agenda of the new wheels hookless witht here max psi being 73 and them saying this is best pressure.
@@GCPerformance18 but you weren't using hookless wheels
I ride the same section of A1A with ZIPP 303s, latex tubes & Pirelli TL's & know every bump on that road. I tried tubeless & it wasn't worth the extra ag. Love your vids!
hell yea!!! you understand me!!!!
The video editing is 🎥📹📽️ AMAZING 🤩!!!
I'm riding tubeless, tubes and tubulars on different wheel sets. I'm gonna ditch tubeless as it's just not worth the hassle and it's never going to reliably seal a (measured) 27-28mm tire at reasonable (as in FAST) pressures. Corsa clinchers and Latex tubes and Corsa Tubulars are still the benchmark for me. In fact, tubulars deliver the best of both worlds for me: I can ride high pressures and have the resulting low rolling resistance AND still have a really comfy tire feel. And, apart from one huge sidewall cut I have so far always been able to seal my tubular out on the road with sealant in case of a puncture and continue my ride. Clinchers on the other hand are just the easiest to live with. Couple of tubes in your back pocket and nothing can really go wrong.
Hi I run the Winspace Hypers run tubeless with 85psi rear and 80psi front on 25mm Vittoria Corsa's (Im 80kg) it works very well on the rougher chip roads here in New Zealand. I have ridden and raced for the last 12 years running tubes in other wheels at higher pressures ie100 psi plus. I have no doubt higher pressures on smooth roads is faster but once the road is more coarse the lower pressures come into there own and are way more comfy. Great vid by the way
and what kind of sealant do you use for such a pressure? has there ever been a puncture that you caught successfully? isn't it used to splash when the liquid breaks?
Congrats on the sponsorship
thanks so much!!!
Ah, beautiful A1A!
Nice work playa!
11:30 which screenshot for which tire? Am I seeing it wrongly, but TL seems faster in your test.
the faster time is the tubed setup, I am sorry for not labeling them in the video
Tubeless just seems like to much of an hassle. Not to mention the added weight of the tires. When I run my tires at low pressure it feels sluggish. The bike just doesn't accelerate the way it should
How is it a hassle when it seals punctures by itself?
I’ve never seen a tube puncture seal itself. if it did, wouldn’t have to bother about sending my bike to the mech to have him replace the tube for me every time I get a puncture.
Then use the right pressures.
Thanks for work to show tube vs tubeless! Are the tube and tubeless tire width size the same?
no tubeless si the more popular 28 tire and tubed is 25
How is puncture protection on those? Thanks for your vids. Rabid for more 🚴♂️🚴♂️🚴♀️🚴🚴♂️🚴♀️🚴🚴♂️🚴♀️🚴🚴♂️🚴♀️🚴
You are between 90 and 91kg...as a much larger dude myself, I am about 137kg! I just changed to tubeless on hooked TLR rims and run 90ish psi and really love it.
I'm still running tubes on my road bike. Tubeless on the mountain bike.
Well done. Great production and background music. Makes me miss S. Florida
Thank you somuch for watching!!
Bro your British GCN accent has changed somehow ❤❤❤❤
hahaha thank you
Were the winds and temp identical and slope may not be with an out and back ? 1 knot of headwind one way and tailwind another will throw it all off.
exact same, literally right after once another so as close as I could get it, maybe the test was 30 min apart
@@GCPerformance18 here's the thing. If the breeze is anything different than a direct cross wind (90 degrees to your direction of path) then one 1 leg you will have a head wind component and the other a tail wind component. In real life the perfect steady direct cross wind is nearly impossible. A better test would be indoors with no wind. Maybe a velodrome?
it of course also depends if you run on smooth asphalt or crappy roads. Sometimes comfort feels slow, but is actually faster. It all depends
this is the truth, there is so much perspective involved
I love this dude! I wish my bike shop was run by him. Love the honesty and providing facts for all of us normal riders. Plus the bikes he shows are 🔥🔥🔥🔥If I win the lottery I’m flying straight to Florida.
thanks so much man!!! I love it!!
Great content bro, keep pushing these out
thank you so much
11:20 I'm confused. Numbers do not match. Audio states: 22.3 mph for tubeless and 23 mph for tubes. But screenshots show 22.2 for tubeless and 21.5 for tubes.
Yea very weird. On my hammerhead it showed the 22.3 and 23 and on Strava it showed 21.5 and 22.2. But still the same result.
Nice video, thanks for your effort putting this together!!
Great content! I like you prefer tubes to the liquid setup, seen some guys trying to fix tubeless tires on the road and its messy to say the least. Besides the bumps may feel more subdued with liquid but nothing beats the stiffness and responsiveness the tubes offer
agreed 100 percent i rather change the flat without the mess
Mate, next level video, video and sound excellent for outdoors Gr8 work. 👍
thanks so mcuh!!!
Freakin awesome video quality
And love the content
Love this channel!!!!
Thanks so much tim!!!
I haven't finished the video yet but imo for your weight I would have ran 80 psi for the tubeless and about 95 to 100 on the tubes, just my opinion. Good effort and thanks for the data, as soon as I'm done watching lol.
Bro finally fired his video editor and hired an expert video editor 😌🙌🏻
hahahhaha
Thanks for the interesting comparisons. Riding here in Florida just an hour north of Tampa, I have switched back to tubes. Reason is cost and hot weathert! Yes, I wrench my own bikes and with both Orange and Stans, I find the sealant dries up quicker in the tires here in Florida than further up North, say like NYC and WDC, where I have experience. Yes, I am cheap and have spent hours cleaning out dried sealant out of tires too. To summerize: I think your comparisions are more helpful for a heavier rider, For a light rider (150lbs and cycling competitively since the early 1980's), I still use tubes-- if I don't know the conditions of the road and specially if I plan on being out for 4 hours or more like for a century event. I have a tubeless setup, have lots of hours on them as well to compare and don't trust it as much as I have hit decending speeds over 55mph and don't even want to think about the heat buildup to these wheels during braking!
Great Content! I used tubes before but switch to tubeless. I’m 212 lbs and using Pirelli tlr with 100 psi in rear and 95 in front. It feels great all and it’s been a year and never experience flat since day 1.
Sounds great!
Hey that camera coming in clutch for you man, looks really smooth and the color grading looks great!!! I'm hoping by the end of the year, I'll be able to to upgrade to a carbon fiber bike and wheels! Always enjoy your videos man!
Do some serious research before, carbon fibre bikes aren't necessarily an upgrade. There are now alloy bikes out there at a fraction of the price that perform just as well.
If you want aero then yeah carbon is where it's at. BUT it's not the do all and end all. The more important thing is to get a bike that has no special parts that you can't get hold of in 1,2 maybe 5 years' time, a frame that is bang up to date with modern standards that will carry you into the future as much as possible is more important than the material its made from. For that I'd look to smaller manufacturers to get an idea as to where things are going, they tend to be more forward-thinking than the big boys. Mason, for example, are/were spec'ing road bikes with 35mm tiers back in 2015, the bigger brands some 7 years later are only now following suite and still aren't as wide in some cases. Velo's r+1, for example, is a good indication that everything will be (maybe) 1x in 5 years' time and completely wireless they also have some very progressive frame design because of this. I'd say if you can wait a little longer do so, we're at a tipping point right now and I feel that frame design is going to have a big shake-up in the next 2 years, everything will be about symmetry something that will only be possible with 1x. Just some thoughts.
@@gaza4543 Haha thanks for the feedback! I've been riding bikes for around 9 years but I was always the broke rider with the bike that's a bit too underwhelming in performance for his own good lol. about 3 1/2 years back, got a bargain on a Alu bike with a carbon fork with 5800 105 groupset on it and have been riding ever since, riding at least 50km everyday if I can. Recently I got into clubs and went on some group rides and it was the first time where I honestly was feeling like my bike was holding me back despite me putting the effort to do so while the other guys were having a breeze (my avg is around 250W ish since the guys were hitting around avg of 35km). So that was probably a really big tipping point for me in terms me changing from 'thinking of buying' to 'considering to buy'. But I've always been price smart to ever pull a trigger on a Cervelo or S-works so I'm def going to seeing some smaller companies for the package deal. Plus if you buy a bike, I feel like it's only tradition that you gotta buy a new kit! So probably I'll have to wait to see if I can collect all that for myself for a good carbon bike
Thanks so much!! yea the camera guy killed it and also he does the editing too
Love the videos and your effort here but… , WAY too many variables in your test to be valid ( tire brand and size). Man , those roads looked smooth! ….also a factor in the “comparison”.
With tubeless you wouldn’t have to stop to fix a puncture( given quality sealant) , heck , in many cases you wouldn’t even notice a puncture.
Loved the video and filming quality though.
You wouldn’t notice a puncture because your tires are already flat…
@@bmanh2355 Lol you don't get blowouts on tubeless unless your tyre gets slashed by a nail for example or there is no sealant.
I'm curious to ride tubeless, I do have tubeless wheel set... I feel like I'd get less time changing tires since the tubeless liquid seals the holes right, or it should at least..
give it a try worst case u dont like it and go back, but if you have the capabilities go for it
For clarification on my confusion, your riding WinSpace Hyper wheels and talk about having a link for them in the description, however the link is for Elite Drive 50D's. Not so much an issue, but now wondering if you also have experience with the Drive wheels and which you might suggest of the other? P.S. - Love the videos!
thanks os much but the wheels should be a little lower in the description
Thank you for the great video. There is one big bias in your test. You should have used the same tyres on both tests. The GP5000 are the faster tyres than the Vittorias!
But the gps are not tubeless tires. You can’t use them.
@@NomadFilmmaker305 You could use S TR for both 🤷🏼♂️
I”m old school with 23mm’s, latex tubes at 110/120 psi. Also rim brakes and cables FTW🤘🏻
Try 80psi for a day. You might be surprised at how much more comfortable it is and you can still go fast.
Good to see you outside your shop and taking more action 🤭
doing my best lol
Tubeless!!! Great video bro 👏🏽👏🏽
Vitoria is not a comparable tyre (has higher rolling resistance-check bikerollingresistance), however, if you want the fastest tube setup go for latex inner tube, they are even faster in comparable tyres (gp5000 Vs gp5000 str), they don't mess when you have a flat and they are cheaper than tpu tubes.
25mm 5000STR at the front wheel and 28mm GP 5000 tube type with latex inner tube is my personal sweetspot on my wheelset (rim brake). Enough smoothness for me at the front and a remarkable low rolling resistence . With this setup I got the best speed results. My personal conclusion: The best of both worlds
@@dirkstaudt4341 that's my choice too but you can't use it in competition (you can't continue when you have a small punture)
@@BorjaAOS You could install a Vittoria Air Liner at the front wheel with the STR tubeless tire and replace the latex tube at the rear wheel by a good TPU tube (Schwalbe Aerothan for example) for better puncture protection. I always use enough baby powder when I install an inner tube to reduce friction between tire and inner tube.
Rolling Resistence Com measured around 1 W difference at 30 kph between both types of inner tubes.
My switch to tubeless has been very positive. I would not go hookless rim because of the limitations of air pressure you can add. Sealant takes care of all the small puncture as long as you have sealant in the tires. Likely the reason why riders get flats because of dry sealant.
I feel like it comes down to the first time the rider switches over, just like anything in life a person can have two different experiences with something, and in a lot of cases people install tubeless and they dont have any problems and it runs amazing with no flats, but then there are the other people who try it out, they get a flat that the sealant cant fix and it becomes costly and wont fix, so they get a bad taste in there mouth from it..... I never had issues with tubes with something I cant fix so I dont feel the need to change it, I can also run 90 psi in tire as well to get more comfort or put 28s with a tube in there as well.
Do it again at higher pressure, I run the new winspace d45's with gp5k str at 90/93 and I'm like 170lbs. I feel faster on tubeless.
Agreed. I'm 165 and run 85/88 on my tubeless 25mm's, even a little less for crits... GC, use the silica tire pressure calculator and run it again. Would be interested to see.......
Those pressures are way to high for tubeless.
Lovely video! Some lab test showed that TPU have higher rolling resistance than tubeless, but in the outdoor you have to take in account many more variables. Now it would be nice to compare TPU vs latex inner tubes :)
higher rolling resistance? how is that possible
Dude your shades 🔥
Man the area you ride in seems so beautiful. You are so lucky to live in southern Florida!
I used tubeless setup since 2019, with Conti gp5000TL 25c with 100psi. Only have One problem because i used a bad quality selant. For me i love ride tubeless
Hello, I’m curious what kind of sealant you used?
@@czts4778 Try a lot, but the best to work with that pressure is the Tufo tubeless, the pink One.
@@luismartinho7044 The black/pink bottle which says Tufo TMEL? If yes, do you know why the description says Tufo (tl) tires only?
And did you tried Silca ult. sealant yet? I had a good time so far with Silca :)
@@Nico-jt8ll yes is that One, i dont now why says, but i used with the gp5000 and it works. Nop, i never used silca products but Im curious to test...
Great insight! fitness looking good brotha! keep it up!
thanks so much I had fun making this
i may not like the bikes you are promoting, but for this kind of content you are relevant !
I ride with 25's and 26's at about 110~120 psi always have. I like the way they feel but yeah you need good roads to make it work well.
I’m running latex tubes on 25c tyres at 100 psi
I’m about the same weight as you 😮
I really enjoy your channel 💕
Greetings from Thailand 🇹🇭
I don't run low enough pressures to want tubeless offroad. I dont like the squirmy tire feeling. If I keep my tires inflated I rarely have problems with tubes.
If you want to go fast, then you run normal hooked tubeless at the same pressure you'd use in a tube type tire.
cool vid, pro quality. sl7 is one love too (got one myself).
would love to see a longer test with exact same tyres (say gp500 TR + latex vs TL). I've just switched to latex (vittoria latex + s-works turbo 26mm) myself, and not sure if it's placebo or maybe it really works, but the bike feels more supple than with butyl tubes at same 110psi pressure. next tyre set will be GP5000's for sure, but if tubeless is so much better/faster might need start saving up for new wheelset too (thanks specialized).
Thanks so much!! I am glad u enjoyed the video!!!
I think it says a lot that you are experiencing bouncing on a smooth road. 100 psi wouldn't be unreasonable for a guy of your size on 25c, though. I'd leave the 110-120psi for 23c. Also Conti GP5K are tested to be about 5w faster per tyre at equal pressure, so that is a big error in your data.
I would have liked to see a repeat with the tubed set up at a lower psi.
I am 185lb and run tubed at 71psi.
Comfort does equal speed over more distance.
Maybe I revisit this test with all the suggestions people have asked for
I have just ordered some TPU tubes to replace my butyl tubes & will be interested to see how they compare…At the same 71psi.
Could you do a comparison between speed of rim brake bike vs disc? There seems to be a lot of suggestions that disc are slower because of more aerodynamic drag? Is that true?
In crosswinds, yes, disc brakes generate more drag, but head on, not much difference, if any. Specialized did a comparison in their wind tunnel a few years ago.
that is a nice test we will see if this makes sense
It took me time to adjust from tubes to tubeless. But I climb a lot and on days I ride I’m gonna for 3-4 hours. My area has so much debris and I flatted watch too much. I enjoy the security of tubeless. My only option with tubes was gatorskins. But they’re heavy and slow. Also the roads here are bumpy because of tractors grinding it up as the drive on roads. So it’s nice to run that low psi.
I understand, and there is a reason for tubeless for some people and it makes sense for you
your numbers at the end as you stated were 22.3 tubeless and 23 for tubed but your on screen numbers reported 22.2 tubeless and 21.5 tubed . was that a strava issue
Here in the UK most of our roads are not smooth so this is where running tubeless at lower pressures and on wider tyres makes a big difference. Smoother is definitely faster. I'm 75kg and running 28s tubeless on zipp303 firecrest at 52psi. Tyres are solid. When I ride my old bike to work on 26s running higher pressure it feels horrible. I would never go back to running 100psi on skinny tyres with tubes. Never had any issues running tubeless it's so easy to set up I don't know what all the fuss is about.
if that works for you, then run it but you are so close to running a hybrid tire psi there, might as well put a gravel tire on there and enjoy the extra grip. but i understand sometimes people need a certain tire for certain terrain but for the general public it is not needed
I ride that same road from Ft Lauderdale to Boyton Beach and back. I use tubes but I’ll switch to tubeless for weight saving
hell yea
@@GCPerformance18 El Flaco ride, he lives in Colombia now but ones in a while he comes to ride with us ..
It's puncture vine season in my parts, my last ride I pulled 2 puncture vine thorns out of my front tire at different times. The sealant sealed the tire right away. Talk about a time saver. I've never had an issue putting tubeless tires on.
you have a similar story to some people with tubes who say the same thing, they dont have issues that some people have with tubes..... it is all subjective and eveyrone has there own riding experience
Great test. I love seeing a true mechanic flip his bike upside down. I do it all the time but GCN is not having it
lmao I know but thank you!!!
From this comparison 120 and 72 is big difference pressure. Most of the riders are not foing to ride just 5 miles . And the most problem if how our body to hold fatigue, more vibration equal to more fatigue . Balance is the key . But i still prefer tube than tubeless . Even i run low psi with gp5000 latex tube never get flat tires , i tried tubolito but i dont really like the feels . I will try pirelli tpu tube . great video !!
72psi was choosen becuase this is the new pressure these hookless wheel systems are only allowing now, this is th emax psi