One of the main things I personally like about Mr. Casler's videos is that they are very thorough and all explanations/examples are presented in a fashion that is easy to understand. 73
Agree on the "lawn staple" method of ground radial installation. There is no need to bury a ground radial at all, unless you are installing your vertical antenna in an area where no vegetation grows and you want the radial wires to be invisible. If you have an actual grass lawn, just use a lawn staple every couple of feet and the grass will hide the radials in a matter of weeks, during growing season. 73 de WB4DW
Dave, always enjoy your videos and this is no exception. On the point of ground mounted radials, one afternoon, I was resting from a week's landscaping and other honey do's dealing with electrical work and I was gazing at a roll of chicken wire and some lenghts of EMT conduit when the light bulb went on! I unrolled the chicken wire and "stapled it" to the lawn, drove a stake into the middle of that, and lashed an 11 foot section of EMT to it. Then I grabbed my TS-520 (back on the day), set it up on the patio, ran a piece of coax to it, and called CQ on 15m. Instantly I was answered by a VK (I lived in Huntington Beach then) and we had a delightful chat. This was followed by about 10 or so of his mates, a JA, a KH6, and a couple of other Pacific stations. So, the beauty of antennas is that they don't have to be exotic or expensive. And ground radials don't have to be resonant. In fact, if the VSWR is dubious, _just water the lawn_!
I must admit that our friend here provides us with very good information but he did not speak at all about the original question, the question talked about a raised vertical antenna, not a pure vertical antenna on the ground, what a pity I was left with the doubt for I live in a condominium complex and I had the same doubt, why doesn't anyone want to talk about it, will it be a mystery?
Finally! Thank you for giving us beginners a straight answer, i have a new 20m Hamstick but have gotten nothing but vague answers as to how many and nobody says how long they should be. "As many as you can" and "as long as whatever will fit" are frustratingly useless to a newbie.
Hi Dave.... for ease of installing radials about 2" or less (the edger is adjustable in depth of cut) in the ground, I suggest a motorized / electric lawn edger which has a vertical blade that cuts into the turf. Real easy... then using a manual dandelion puller tool (which BTW has a V notch in the end) you can push the wire into the slit that the edger has cut. Once installed you just step on the slit and viola! Hidden radial. You may be able to borrow such a tool if you do not own one but you should probably replace the cutter blade for the owner.... Also I have seen Calum having a tiltable ground mounted gizmo to anchor the DX Commander in the ground in a few of his videos. Lastly, the radials you described 1/4 wavelength rather remind me dipole legs... Cheers 73 Art W1SWL
Thanks Dave! I have a Hustler 6 BTV and had my tuned radials damaged by a lawn guy. I am in the process of repairing them. I am also thinking of running an amp for the DX stations I can hear but can’t seem to bust the pile ups. I am using a Yaesu FT-710 and have done pretty good at picking up some DX stations in South America and Eastern Europe. However, the Hustler doesn’t hear as well as my MyAntenna 75-10. So, I’m in the process of saving for a HP version of the MyAntenna. I’ll fix my radials and try it out. Thanks for the great info. W5AWT John
I have to burry an invisible fence in my parents yard here soon. I have an old electric lawn edger that makes a perfect slot to put wire in the ground.
I put out 12 evenly spread 2.5 metre radials for my Hustler 6-BTV, then covered them with mulch. It sits in a corner of my garden. All bands are tuned except 80m which stays at swr 1:2, so an ATU is used for that band. I’ve gotten all over the world with just 10 Watts with FT8, that includes FT8 on 80m.
Thank you, Dave! I have watched many of your videos over the years and have learnt a ton. I finally donated to thank you and support your efforts. Regards, Mike KA6BJR
Hi Dave...I notice that you have a typewriter in the background of your video. I hear that someday there will be computer programs that can replace those. Let's keep a lookout that future development.
Dave, really great video. For the end of insulated radials, I'd suggest using heat shrink tubing that has the glue type of inside to prevent water wicking into the cable. If you adjust the height of the ends of each pair of band radials, you should be able to get close to 50-ohm feed point impedance on all bands.
Agreed. Glue lined heat shrink or a bottle of "Liquid Tape" and dip the ends in that a couple times (that's what I did for the 55 ground mounted radials on my 9 band Hustler).
I often wondered why the books say you only need two radials mounted 180 degrees from each other for good swr and omi directional transmission. And when on the ground you need many.
Just a point of clarification. More shorter radials isn't better than fewer longer ones. It technically isn't better, but rather it just isn't as bad that you would really notice the difference. If I remember correctly, raised radials that are cut to a specific frequency length are better, but if you have 4 of them that are 1/4th the length of a tuned raised radial will be SLIGHTLY worse, maybe 1/2 or 1 dB worse, but you really won't notice the difference. I have a smallish back yard and didn't want to put my Hustler smack in the middle of the yard, so I put a ton of radials of various lengths ... 55 radials, for a total of 1000 feet of wire, ranging from 12 feet to 33 feet in length. I dipped the ends of the cut wires in "Liquid Tape" to insulate the ends. I've worked countries all over the world on nearly all bands. Like everything antenna related ... EVERYTHING is a compromise. :D As far as guy wires, you are spot on about UV resistant rope. I love Mastrant. Light weight, strong, UV and fungus resistant, and has no RF interaction.
The purpose of radials is to provide a low loss return path for ground currents. I believe longer radials require more radials to take full advantage of their length because they are farther apart at the outer end. More wire on the ground is generally better, but if you only have 150 feet of wire, six 25 foot radials should work better than three 50 foot ones. I've also read most ground loss occurs within the first quarter wavelength from the antenna which is another reason to use more shorter radials. Finally I've read that sixteen 1/4 wave radials gets you to within about 3 dB of an ideal ground plane. There are so many conflicting claims it's hard to know which ones really matter. The explanations above seem logical to me.
Calum has a wide open field to mount his antennae, those living in built up areas that can't see the horizon from their mounting point, might do better using an elevated mounting point.
There is no hard and fast rule to the length of the radials when laid on the ground as they are detuned anyway by proximity to the ground. 0.1 wavelength radials are not magical, but various studies suggest that the best use of a given length of wire is to increase the number of radials but make them shorter. In defence of the youngsters that put Dave's antenna up the 10ft radials are not far off if the lowest band in use is 40m. FWIW despite having very conductive ground here my multiple ground stakes around the antenna are remarkably poor as an RF path. As for the pizza cutter I used an old kitchen knife, not the most miserable job in the world in the right weather.... no need to finish the job in one session. In fact it is interesting to perceive difference as you later add more and more radials.
I am curious now after you mention high voltage at the ends of the radials. Do you ever notice that you get worms coming up around the ends after transmitting? If it is Spring / Worm season.
I'm confused, Dave. So 33' is a 1/4wave for 40m, but isn't then a 1/2wave for 20m? So the 33' would cover the 40m+20m bands (you said 40 + 15 ? Slip of the tongue or just me?). Furthermore, I'd guess if 33' is 1/4 for 40m then it's half for 20m and full for 10m! So, those two radials would cover for 40m, 20m, and 10m....unless I'm missing something. But you still recommended the two 16' which'd be a quarter for the 20m and half for the 10m. So, should we also put in a 25' pair to cover the 30m (1/4 wave) and the 15m (1/2 wave)? I'm no genius and used to being wrong so please educate me! Hope you're happy and well! Many blessings to you and yours. Christian N7KJQ
So radials have high voltage at the ends? Will that catch dry grass on fire? I've never grabbed one, but I do operate at up to about 50 watts on FT8 HF bands.
It's a shame that it's all about the money money. You never reply to all the comments being sent to you. But i guess if i pay you & become a patreon then no problem , you will answer. As a youtube creator myself i promised myself that if my channel grew i would still always answer my commentors. A shame but hey. Steve.
One of the main things I personally like about Mr. Casler's videos is that they are very thorough and all explanations/examples are presented in a fashion that is easy to understand. 73
Agree on the "lawn staple" method of ground radial installation. There is no need to bury a ground radial at all, unless you are installing your vertical antenna in an area where no vegetation grows and you want the radial wires to be invisible. If you have an actual grass lawn, just use a lawn staple every couple of feet and the grass will hide the radials in a matter of weeks, during growing season. 73 de WB4DW
Dave, always enjoy your videos and this is no exception. On the point of ground mounted radials, one afternoon, I was resting from a week's landscaping and other honey do's dealing with electrical work and I was gazing at a roll of chicken wire and some lenghts of EMT conduit when the light bulb went on!
I unrolled the chicken wire and "stapled it" to the lawn, drove a stake into the middle of that, and lashed an 11 foot section of EMT to it. Then I grabbed my TS-520 (back on the day), set it up on the patio, ran a piece of coax to it, and called CQ on 15m.
Instantly I was answered by a VK (I lived in Huntington Beach then) and we had a delightful chat. This was followed by about 10 or so of his mates, a JA, a KH6, and a couple of other Pacific stations.
So, the beauty of antennas is that they don't have to be exotic or expensive. And ground radials don't have to be resonant. In fact, if the VSWR is dubious, _just water the lawn_!
I must admit that our friend here provides us with very good information but he did not speak at all about the original question, the question talked about a raised vertical antenna, not a pure vertical antenna on the ground, what a pity I was left with the doubt for I live in a condominium complex and I had the same doubt, why doesn't anyone want to talk about it, will it be a mystery?
Thanks Dave, this clears up a lot of confusion as to how to configure Radials.
Finally! Thank you for giving us beginners a straight answer, i have a new 20m Hamstick but have gotten nothing but vague answers as to how many and nobody says how long they should be. "As many as you can" and "as long as whatever will fit" are frustratingly useless to a newbie.
Glad it helped.
Great videos Dave! So glad you take the time to make these and share your knowledge! It’s not lost.
Hi Dave.... for ease of installing radials about 2" or less (the edger is adjustable in depth of cut) in the ground, I suggest a motorized / electric lawn edger which has a vertical blade that cuts into the turf. Real easy... then using a manual dandelion puller tool (which BTW has a V notch in the end) you can push the wire into the slit that the edger has cut. Once installed you just step on the slit and viola! Hidden radial. You may be able to borrow such a tool if you do not own one but you should probably replace the cutter blade for the owner.... Also I have seen Calum having a tiltable ground mounted gizmo to anchor the DX Commander in the ground in a few of his videos. Lastly, the radials you described 1/4 wavelength rather remind me dipole legs... Cheers 73 Art W1SWL
Thanks Dave! I have a Hustler 6 BTV and had my tuned radials damaged by a lawn guy. I am in the process of repairing them. I am also thinking of running an amp for the DX stations I can hear but can’t seem to bust the pile ups. I am using a Yaesu FT-710 and have done pretty good at picking up some DX stations in South America and Eastern Europe. However, the Hustler doesn’t hear as well as my MyAntenna 75-10. So, I’m in the process of saving for a HP version of the MyAntenna. I’ll fix my radials and try it out. Thanks for the great info. W5AWT John
I have to burry an invisible fence in my parents yard here soon. I have an old electric lawn edger that makes a perfect slot to put wire in the ground.
I put out 12 evenly spread 2.5 metre radials for my Hustler 6-BTV, then covered them with mulch. It sits in a corner of my garden. All bands are tuned except 80m which stays at swr 1:2, so an ATU is used for that band. I’ve gotten all over the world with just 10 Watts with FT8, that includes FT8 on 80m.
Thank you, Dave! I have watched many of your videos over the years and have learnt a ton. I finally donated to thank you and support your efforts. Regards, Mike KA6BJR
3:20 Would love to know the rules, new to ham. Thank you for all you do!
Hi Dave...I notice that you have a typewriter in the background of your video. I hear that someday there will be computer programs that can replace those. Let's keep a lookout that future development.
Thank you, Dave, for the excellent video! Thoroughly and excellently presented! 73 Mike KM5MD
Dave, really great video.
For the end of insulated radials, I'd suggest using heat shrink tubing that has the glue type of inside to prevent water wicking into the cable.
If you adjust the height of the ends of each pair of band radials, you should be able to get close to 50-ohm feed point impedance on all bands.
Agreed. Glue lined heat shrink or a bottle of "Liquid Tape" and dip the ends in that a couple times (that's what I did for the 55 ground mounted radials on my 9 band Hustler).
Thanks Dave, you answered my question as well. 73!
Very informative. As a DX commander fan I still find this a very good video. I didn't know about the insulated wire versus bare
I often wondered why the books say you only need two radials mounted 180 degrees from each other for good swr and omi directional transmission. And when on the ground you need many.
You can also get biodegradable pegs 3-4 inches long which you can also use in place of the lawn staples.
Sometime record a talk about near and far fields and radials please. Thanks NQ7L
Just a point of clarification. More shorter radials isn't better than fewer longer ones. It technically isn't better, but rather it just isn't as bad that you would really notice the difference. If I remember correctly, raised radials that are cut to a specific frequency length are better, but if you have 4 of them that are 1/4th the length of a tuned raised radial will be SLIGHTLY worse, maybe 1/2 or 1 dB worse, but you really won't notice the difference.
I have a smallish back yard and didn't want to put my Hustler smack in the middle of the yard, so I put a ton of radials of various lengths ... 55 radials, for a total of 1000 feet of wire, ranging from 12 feet to 33 feet in length. I dipped the ends of the cut wires in "Liquid Tape" to insulate the ends. I've worked countries all over the world on nearly all bands. Like everything antenna related ... EVERYTHING is a compromise. :D
As far as guy wires, you are spot on about UV resistant rope. I love Mastrant. Light weight, strong, UV and fungus resistant, and has no RF interaction.
The purpose of radials is to provide a low loss return path for ground currents. I believe longer radials require more radials to take full advantage of their length because they are farther apart at the outer end. More wire on the ground is generally better, but if you only have 150 feet of wire, six 25 foot radials should work better than three 50 foot ones. I've also read most ground loss occurs within the first quarter wavelength from the antenna which is another reason to use more shorter radials. Finally I've read that sixteen 1/4 wave radials gets you to within about 3 dB of an ideal ground plane. There are so many conflicting claims it's hard to know which ones really matter. The explanations above seem logical to me.
Calum has a wide open field to mount his antennae, those living in built up areas that can't see the horizon from their mounting point, might do better using an elevated mounting point.
Great info Dave. Thanks!
There is no hard and fast rule to the length of the radials when laid on the ground as they are detuned anyway by proximity to the ground. 0.1 wavelength radials are not magical, but various studies suggest that the best use of a given length of wire is to increase the number of radials but make them shorter. In defence of the youngsters that put Dave's antenna up the 10ft radials are not far off if the lowest band in use is 40m. FWIW despite having very conductive ground here my multiple ground stakes around the antenna are remarkably poor as an RF path.
As for the pizza cutter I used an old kitchen knife, not the most miserable job in the world in the right weather.... no need to finish the job in one session. In fact it is interesting to perceive difference as you later add more and more radials.
You mentioned in passing, your assistant. Do they have a name ?
Great video Dave! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.n 73 Bret/AC0AE
I am curious now after you mention high voltage at the ends of the radials. Do you ever notice that you get worms coming up around the ends after transmitting? If it is Spring / Worm season.
I'm confused, Dave.
So 33' is a 1/4wave for 40m, but isn't then a 1/2wave for 20m? So the 33' would cover the 40m+20m bands (you said 40 + 15 ? Slip of the tongue or just me?). Furthermore, I'd guess if 33' is 1/4 for 40m then it's half for 20m and full for 10m! So, those two radials would cover for 40m, 20m, and 10m....unless I'm missing something. But you still recommended the two 16' which'd be a quarter for the 20m and half for the 10m. So, should we also put in a 25' pair to cover the 30m (1/4 wave) and the 15m (1/2 wave)?
I'm no genius and used to being wrong so please educate me! Hope you're happy and well! Many blessings to you and yours.
Christian N7KJQ
So radials have high voltage at the ends? Will that catch dry grass on fire? I've never grabbed one, but I do operate at up to about 50 watts on FT8 HF bands.
You have a Hallicrafter on your shelf. Wow.
Didn't really answer the question of how to work radials for an elevated vertical. Sounds like it's not doable, and one is left dealing with ???
pizza cutter is a great idea!!!!!! thanks Dave!!!
question do you connect the plate to the antenna itself or is it free floating ?
Thanks!
Thank you for your financial support of this channel! It is greatly appreciated! 73, Dave, KE0OG.
Dave do you seal the far end of each radial? Or does it matter?
Maybe they created the 80 meter band so that you have something to dislike? Our NFL traffic net and ARES function on the band of 80 meters.
2 elevated verticals phased at chain link fence post height works amazing.
I barely buried my radials only deep enough so the wouldn’t get wrapped up by the lawn mower.
Good job referensi antena god luck
It's a shame that it's all about the money money. You never reply to all the comments being sent to you. But i guess if i pay you & become a patreon then no problem , you will answer. As a youtube creator myself i promised myself that if my channel grew i would still always answer my commentors. A shame but hey.
Steve.
Alternatively use 2 inch biologically degradable lawn stakes.