I am a hugger, and I have a lot of female friends for that reason because most men have issues being hugged by other men. I became friends with this girl in college who wasn't a hugger, but I was unaware of that and she didn't tell me. After a few months, I was hanging out with some other friends and they casually mentioned (not directed toward me) that my other friend didn't like hugs. In my head I was like "oh crap. I've been making my friend uncomfortable every time she sees me." So the next time I saw her when we were with a group of friends, I didn't hug her. She got offended and said, "Where's my hug?" "I was told that you don't like hugs, and I don't want you to be uncomfortable around me." "Well I like them from you." And we went for a hug. Don't know why she only liked them from me, there was never anything romantic going on, and we still have catch up chats to this day.
I'm not saying it's definitely why but... I know for me, possibly because of my anxiety issues, I don't like being touched unexpectedly or being "forced" or feeling coerced into it, and this is USUALLY particularly the case when it comes to receiving hugs from guys, because I'll be frank, a lot of guys out there seem to use it in a... shall we say non platonic sense. Which feels... threatening or unsettling. Like, if I barely know a guy and he's trying to hit on me and then just... hugs me, that's incredibly creepy, unsettling, and makes me feel unsafe; I had a customer once when I was working retail, who was hitting on me and trying to convince me to meet him somewhere by myself to "model" for his photography...and before he left the shop, he spontaneously just. Hugged me. And he did it from the front, in a way that pushed my boobs up against his chest. I was SO creeped out! Even though he didn't physically "threaten" me, that made me, in my own body, feel Unsafe. But. There have always been a small number of people from whom hugs are just... nice . Whom I feel safe with. I like those! From the sound of it she knew you were a general hugger not just around her, and not like straight up just trying to flirt or cop a feel from her. So to me, it sounds like she enjoys hugs from you because because you don't make her feel unsafe, and maybe even actively help her feel at ease. The fact you immediately were willing to back off from the behavior when you thought she was uncomfortable with it speaks volumes, in a good way. It reminds me of my dad and how even some of the most wary pets would gravitate toward him because he was so gentle and respectful of them. It's a wonderful thing. I'm glad she felt safe enough to enjoy your hugs and that you're still in touch ❤
I think it is great that you reacted that way! I hate hugs and here in Germany as soon as you know a person just a little bit better, it is common to hug as a form of saying hello. I am always glad when its over ^^ I play along because i know that the others will think i dont like them (no matter how often i explain that that is not the case), but really i woulkd be glad if i dont have to touch a single person for the rest of my life apart from my boyfriend. He is literally the only exception. I dont even like my parents hugging me. And i am not autistic or anything, i am just really not a touchy person. I also think handshakes and clapping on the shoulder and all of that is just so annoying ^^ I think its great when people respect that :)
ND guy dating a ND girl and she's your friend. My GF doesn't like a lot of things from other people that she loves from me, and certain other close folks in her life.
I remember in the original movie with Christina Ricci when she's forced to go to camp and Morticia says "Wednesday is that the age when girls only have one thing on their mind", to which the councillor jokingly asks "boys?" and Wednesday replies "homicide". As someone who is autistic and absolutely loathed school activities that feeling is so relatable.
Wednesday was always my favorite character, ever, because she was so relatable to me. And especially because she wasn't written to satisfy some social quota like today.
I remember just being angry all the time because of how depressed I was and I felt relieved when I watched that. Felt very relatable to me at the time 🤣🤣
As someone on the autism spectrum myself, I really appreciate your emphasis on how important it is for autistic people to be accepted for who they are, both by themselves and others. It took me years to realize that there is nothing wrong with me for not understanding people's emotions and social cues and to instead look at all the strengths I get from autism. I really appreciate when those with a public platform like you use your expertise for more autism discussions and acceptance.
That's really nice, and good to keep in mind. My brother says I have autism "according to a friend of his in the medical field" and that I need to "fix" certain aspects of my behavior so that I am more in conformity with the rest of society (and he's the only one I know who thinks I'm not in conformity with society). Thing is, I myself don't think I have autism!!! Nothing wrong with it... it's just... it ain't me! But the idea that I have to "fix" myself to please him. So this is good to keep in mind.
Neuro divergent people aren’t just with autism it’s all different mental illnesses and all that shit. So, it pisses me off that autistic people assume characters who aren’t even autistic and look like all different mental illness or disablities because a lot of them have similar traits or looks from the outside.
@@georockstar09 I suggest looking up the traits of autism for yourself and coming to your own conclusion, because when my mom first suggested that I might be autistic I thought she was crazy, but then when I did some research I realized how much of the traits I related to. And not long after that, I was diagnosed
Please please please do not mistake not being able to see emotion in a person with that person not feeling. I live this mis-read regularly. I hurts when I am accused of not feeling (or not feeling enough) in person and even more when it gets passed to me second hand. Yes, I am guarded and use my face weird; these facts are a far cry from "not feeling"
I feel this. Sometimes I have to worry that I'm not reacting enough, and that people will think I'm not taking things seriously enough. Sometimes I react too much, and people tell me that I'm prone to panicking. I can talk to people about almost anything, but I very rarely talk to anyone about a few topics that are way too close to me. So people don't see me connecting with them, only on a superficial level. Sometimes I'm told to open up and relax, that I can open up with them. But then when I open up on my thoughts, I offend people half the time. How am I supposed to open up and also consider other people's feelings while feeling so vulnerable at the same time? And people wonder why I'm so guarded.
We have learned to live our lives by masking because people do not react well to us when not masking. This means that for us there are no "natural" expressions. Everything is a carefully chosen degree of expression. This gets us by a lot of the time, but other times it makes us come across as insincere or trying too hard. What to others can seem like an unemotional state is simply is not sharing, usually because we don't know how much to share and how to share it
I was having similar thoughts with the talk about empathy. Mostly because my particular flavor of ASD lands on being able to empathize almost excessively in terms of feeling what someone else is feeling but not knowing what to do with those feelings so not expressing that empathy or expressing it in a really weird way. I think here it's maybe not talked about because we don't have her internal voice to go on so there's no way of really knowing what she is or isn't feeling. As viewers of a TV show we just have to go on her external voice and what she is showing and saying which is outwardly very emotionless. We can't just ask her like people should ideally be asking you. It would be nice to see that addressed.
I’m autistic, diagnosed about a year ago, so there is still so much I am learning about differences in neurotypes. And this video taught me something about neurotypical expectations. When Wednesday was talking to Bianca, it never once struck me as odd that she asked for more info instead of “empathizing” with her. To me, that WAS her empathizing with Bianca.
me too!!! same with the line "is it because you're the only normie..." because for me, that line made complete sense and it meant that she cared and was willing to engage, I never viewed it as her focusing on the facts, that was her being empathetic for me!
@@anacarolinasouza3804 exactly!! The "empathetic" answer of "that sounds rough" sound so superficial/cookie cutter and conversation ending. If you say "I know how you feel" with no explanation, it again sounds fake. If you give an example, it sounds like you're turning the conversation to yourself. So asking more about that person's situation (and with insight too!!! Noticing teacher being only normie could be hard, and noticing Bianca's amulet is supposed to help with her problems) sounds like the best response..
It's interesting how you point out the moments where Wednesday could have expressed empathy, but instead goes straight to the facts. When someone shares something important or sad with me, "that must be hard" is something I have to actively remind myself to say. To me, it feels like empty words. It feels artificial. Whereas asking for more info about the situation, or offering my own experience in response, feels like a genuine exchange, which is how I show that I care. I have trained myself to verbalise my sympathies, though, because it is clearly important to many people. I have also become hesitant to respond in situations like that, because I'm afraid of appearing like I'm making it all about myself. I'm afraid my friend will think I'm dragging the spotlight away from them and onto myself. The thing is: in my brain, there is no spotlight to drag anywhere. Instead, there's a rain cloud hanging over my friend, and what I'm doing is stepping under it with them so that they're not all alone in the rain.
I think as someone who also likes to reply with Stories, I have to remember "that sounds hard or sorry to hear that." As well. For me, I try to think of it like emotional punctuation. You help the other person feel heard that way. However I found this post insightful and I appreciate it. 🌧️🌈🌦️
This is exactly me too! I am not good with sympathising and empathising, I iust learn and tell my similar experiences. (Or I don't respond at all due to me not knowing how to). I've had a lot of difficult friendships where they always thought me askijg a bunch of questions was me ignoring what theyre saying, or me saying my own experiences is me making it about myself. When that is the only way that I know how to sincerely communicate.
i get this on such a fundamental level it's ridiculous. when a friend is telling me about their struggles or what they're going through, my first impulse is always to gather more information by asking questions and try to solve the problem by giving advice or presenting possible solutions i see, often drawing parallels to my own experiences. i want to understand what they're experiencing and i want to help them find a way through it, because that's how my empathy works. it took years for me to learn that sometimes that isn't the help they're looking for - sometimes they just want someone to hear them and validate their feelings, or someone to reassure them that they aren't at fault for whatever situation they're in. nowadays i've trained myself to respond with "that sounds really rough, how can i be here for you right now?" or "do you want empathy, comfort, or advice?", but even that sometimes misses the mark because it's interpreted as less sincere than if i had offered whatever form of support they're looking for, as Enid puts it, without having to be told.
Same. I always had the same intentions, but then I thought about what frustrates me with my family members when I'm venting to them and a big thing is that they never seem to address what I've said properly. They either try to solve it which is often unhelpful or they jump to another conversation without responding at all. I realized that what I need is someone to validate what I'm feeling because for some reason I can relax when someone else "agrees" with me about my situation, but I keep being anxious and upset until then. So realizing that what I need is actually someone to say "yeah, you're right, that sucks" has made me try to start doing that for other people more.
My best friend is autistic and one of the best things for our friendship was me getting diagnosed with ADHD. While looking into ADHD and comparing it to autism I suddenly realized that the major differences between the two correlated with the biggest tensions in our friendship. Particularly, when I would suddenly cancel or change plans. I never knew why it was such a big deal. To me, changes in plans are usually exciting or a relief, even if I was looking forward to the original plan. And I get extremely frustrated and feel on edge if things are too predictable for too long. So I didn't realize that she actually needs that predictability. Now I do my best to stick to plans and if I might have to change or cancel them I make sure to let her know as early as possible so she has enough time to prepare for that possibility as well
You're a good friend, you actually listened to her needs ! My friends ignored my repeated demands for being contacted by written means (text or e-mail) before calling me, as I hate the unpredictability of a unannounced phone call and get really stressed out by it, especially if it has been a long time since our last contact. Their dismissal of my need is one of the reasons I first stopped having contact with them then stopped being friends with them altogether. Now I have only one friend, not a close one but at least, since she's autistic like me, she doesn't call me without warning (she even doesn't call me at all, we talk via text when not in each other's direct presence and we're happy with that).
@@littlemoth4956 that’s not necessarily true.. it depends on the friendship. My best friend and I both have adhd and it is very common for us to change plans or not follow through with plans. To go weeks without talking and then talk every day for a month. Some people thrive on change and some people don’t. But I wouldn’t consider it a dick move to do what’s best for you and your relationships.
My husband is ADHD and I'm autistic; makes for some interesting struggles but it's great when we can make our differences complement each other! He keeps me flexible and I am his working memory 😁❤
Neurodivergent here: I am in the ADHD category of this mindset away from the norm: I love the Addams family so much because they love each other being different when many “real” families are quick to judge or shame a person with a different brain. Great Video!!!
That's such a sweet interpretation! I've loved them since the 90s Addams Family Matters movie and I totally get that vibe. ND ppl understand that lesson deeply, even if it's relatable to many.
That is a wonderfull one. It also ties into what Johnathan said on the 1st dive into Wednesday, how Pugsley "gets it," that she just shows emotion differently. If you look at this Pugsley and Gomez having ADHD (can totally see it, trying to get diagnosed for Adult ADHD myself), it really clicks since people with different neurodivergencies can often click and just "get" each other more easily than neurotypical people, even if they are vastly different "types" of divergence. Autism and ADHD tend to click especially, because both are prone to hyperfixations, and don't mind the infodump, or even welcome it.
@@Miss_Camel yes, ADHD is type of neurological disorder. It is neurodevelopmental/neurobehavioral disorder. There ADHD brain differ from typical brains in how they function.
@@piiajarvinen2554 Their*, and I maintain that we’re just significantly more entertaining than everyone else. However, if it’s something I could claim for benefits, I’ll definitely add it to the list!! Sadly, ADHD as I am, and with my severe panic disorder, etc, I’m….still not neurodivergent. I AM mentally ill (No, not bc of ADHD), but I know my lane and how to stay in it..
It never occurred to me that Wednesday might be ND, particularly autistic, but it makes sense. The rest of the family are very affectionate towards each other. When Morticia, Gomez, and Pugsley are leaving Nevermore and Pugsley throws his arms around her, while Morticia knows to give Wednesday space... Hyperfocus, while most strongly associated with ADHD, is part of autism, as well. I think she, at first, hugs Enid back because Wednesday understands Enid could have died. But after a few moments, she realizes that she needs the hug as well.
I was thinking that I relate to much of what Wednesday goes through because many of her struggles (and those of neurodivergent people as well) are based on societal or cultural expectations that I relate to just because my folks are immigrants lol. And knowing how different Wednesday’s upbringing was...
Thank you so much for this message. As an ND person (mostly ADHD with a few extras) I've been suffering from being misunderstood all my life, and I've constantly been told there was something wrong with me and "that's not how people are supposed to behave". I'll never forget the moment we were told in school to never trust anybody who won't look you in the eyes, because "they have something to hide". That really HURT, because I can't even lock eyes with people I'm really close with, much less total strangers. I had to learn to stare at the base of the nose to fake looking other people in the eyes just to not be outcast from society because of this stupid superstition. On the other hand, my first German teacher will always have a very special place in my heart. She once told my parents (who always tried to force me into masking): "Your child spends most of my lessons staring out of the window, doodling patterns on their books or writing page upon page of made-up words into their exercise book. But when I ask them about the lesson, they always know the correct answer. That's fine with me, teaching is not about feeding my own ego by having children hang on my lips, it's about them learning something. And if they learn best by simply being themselves, that's great! So please stop telling them to sit still and look at me. That's not how their brain works, and that's totally okay."
Your German teacher sounds like an angel. I had a math teacher who made me enjoy learning math, because he always added stories, and he showed me an easier way to add and subtract, which greatly helped me with budgeting later on in life. (ADHD also)
@@purple4216 She definitely was! As was your math teacher. It's so frustrating, most children ENJOY learning before they are sent off to school were it is turned into this unbearable chore. Bad enough for NT people, but we all know what 'unbearable chore' does to the average ADHD brain ... :(
I (neurodivergent, probably ADHD and autism, undiagnosed apart from anxiety and depression) also had a great teacher who always encouraged me to keep doing what I love, which was drawing and writing. She once told my mother when I was standing next to them, "Maybe they are not that good at math. But it does not matter, they draw amazingly." Up to this day, she is my source of motivation when I just feel like giving up my dreams.
@@calliesdandelions Thanks for sharing, to both of you! Reading about those ND-friendly teachers gives me hope that one day dealing with ND students in a helpful way will be considered the norm, not a rare bonus!
@Ben Nathrai I sure hope so, too! That teacher always let me scribble in my notebooks. Some of my teachers in 5th and 6th grade did, but she was especially supportive and really did not care much if I had finished all my tasks, I could draw and write whenever I wanted. She always praised my artwork, and kept many copies of it, actually. Her support made me stick to creative things, even when my depression got worse. Nowadays, I am an actor and writer. I don't draw much anymore due to lack of time for it in my schedule but I would love to get back into it at some point. Now back to the topic, I am sure you are going to be an amazing teacher. And I hope it will be more common for teachers to be more ND-supportive in the future, too.
I'm Autistic, and I appreciate the approach you showed here. Its nice to hear someone talk about the strengths of neurodivergence and not just the shortcomings. I'm over 40 and still struggling with social relationships. I WANT to be around people, and I just can't figure out how to make that happen, even though many folks say I'm friendly and fun to be around. It's still impossible to go past friendship or hold a job. It shouldn't be this hard. Just one point of difference in what you talked about in the video. We do have and experience the normal range of human emotions, we just don't express them or show them in ways neurotypical folks recognize. Sometimes we can't identify or label exactly WHAT we're feeling, but we do feel it...sometimes very little, sometimes too much!
Agree! I think the emotions thing is one of the most absolutely misunderstood things about us. And while I do think Jonno might have had a slip of the tongue on that one, it never ceases to astound me how people get us so confused with one of the main characteristics fundamental to ASPD. I guess it's that difficult for some people to understand that *feeling* something & *showing feelings* 💯 do not have to coincide 😶
I think there may be a disconnect in us between the feeling an emotion and the sharing of that emotion that neurotypical people do not have. When talking to a stranger I do not see any reason to share my emotional state, but with friends it's like sharing anything else, you share your joy to bring joy to others and you share your pain to show empathy with another's pain. At least that's how it feels to me. I'm almost 40 and only discovered I'm neurodivergent within the last couple of years. It's weird coming to terms with stuff that I struggled with all my life turning out to be just my brain being wired differently
I really relate to the trouble with emotions. One thing I noticed when I started therapy, the first therapist I spoke with always did that whole 'how are you feeling?' or 'what have you been feeling?' and I hated it, because unless there was something significantly out of the norm I didn't know how to answer so it was always 'fine' regardless because I don't know how to describe what I'm feeling most times (I learned it's called alexithymia). So for a number of reasons I found a different therapist and she actually gives me pointed questions about my week and actual experiences that I could then work on extrapolating my internal experiences from and analyzing them like I would a character in a book. Somehow that makes it way easier in retrospect to figure out what I was feeling at a certain time or why I've reacted certain ways, and helps me kind of recognize similar situations when they come up. Showing feelings for me is super confusing sometimes because like I want my friends to know I care about their shitty day or their amazing experience or whatever, but I never know what to do or say. So I guess I just try to be there, or message more often with inconsequential things so they know I'm thinking about them, or send random gifts if I see something I think they'd like. I guess it works, but when someone's having a bad experience, like Wednesday said "to be honest I wish I cared more" and could empathize better.
@@echoc7213 I really relate to that. I usually either say something along the lines of "as always" or with friends and family it's usually tired (i have narcolepsy, so tired is my usual state of being). I do have a lot of trouble identifying and expressing emotions. I'm also terrible at comforting people emotionally.
I just wanted to point out that when Enid says, “Because that’s what friends do. They don’t have to be asked. And the fact that you don’t know that says everything” - that’s a mess. People are not mindreaders. They don’t know the specific needs of others. They do have to be asked. Because every brain is different. Every person is different. Everyone has different needs, even in similar situations. What is affirming and helpful for one person can actually be damaging to another. We need to normalizing asking for what we need, and hearing others when they do.
People definitely need to ask first. I HATE surprises so if I had that happen to me after a long day, I would have been very dismissive or furious with Enid as well. Not everyone needs a party, surprises, or even a ton of people around. I get that Enid is a werewolf, wolves value the pack, but she should have realized others aren't that same. that also says a lot about her.
Excellent point! And this makes me ponder further if Enid's character was supposed to say this as a werewolf, since their alertness to bodily cues would possibly be more heightened than other species of people.
Also worth noting that these are 16yo girls here. They're not gonna be the picture of emotional competence on either side of the stain-glass window 😂 Enid comes to realize after that outburst that what she said (in the heat of a moment after she nearly died multipme times!) was wrong.
My therapist recommended CinemaTherapy to me. I have binged all those videos and now am binging these. I am neurodivergent (ADHD) and diagnosed (along with the ADHD) with clinical depression, GAD, and CPSTD. Y'all's videos have helped me sooooo much--keep up the fantastic work!
YES! I'm goth & autistic. Watching Wednesday was like looking in a mirror. I don't catch all these details because, to me, she acts normally. I don't pick up on the social cues the other characters are giving her either, and she always responds similarly to how I would have, so hearing the non autistic perspective on Wednesday is amusing.
As a neurodivergent person adhd ( some Dr's have had some suspension about autism), the thing about Wednesday is that she is empathetic she does feel but not in the traditional way. Social cues are hard, and a lot of my persona is preppy in a melodramatic kind of way. But I learned to be over dramatic because I was taught that emotional flatness isn't enough cue to know what you actually mean. So I over emphasize my emotions for others.its not me being fake. It's just the times I grew up in that they emphasized cbt and teaching kids the "right way" of emoting. If it were up to me, I'd be more flat. Not like Wednesday per se but somewhere close. Again the emotion is there for Wednesday it's just that she's not over verbalize or emoting. But the care and empathy is 100% there.
Yeah! For me, it's totally the same way. Growing up, I always thought that you're only human if you feel emotion, whether good or bad, and as a response to that, I try to over-amplify whatever I feel to others, because I've always been "different" from people. I want to be a part of all of their connections and relationships so badly that I end up covering my emotions with an over-dramatic mask, ironically keeping people from wanting to be friends with me.
I was diagnosed with autism a few months ago as an adult. As a kid I was asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, "a human" I said. Something I have realized as an adult that resonates with many ND people is that "I enjoy being alone but I hate being lonely". It's one of the main struggles that I have with my autism that is made worse by my CPTSD, I struggle to open up to people along with them not wanting to do the same with me. I watched Wednesday last month to see what all the hype was in the autistic community and I loved it. I'm very new to viewing myself as autistic and related so much to the hyperbolic character of Wednesday, my form of torturing my siblings involved hiding things when they displeased me rather than waterboarding though 😅
as both a goth person and an undiagnosed autistic person I relate hard to Wednesday, especially this iteration. I always found it hard to relate to autistic characters until Wednesday, but she quite literally speaks my language with our shared morbid interests and the way we communicate. The way we both say "I love you" is insults and threats of violence and death. To say I feel seen by Wednesday as a show and character would be an understatement.
I appreciate you making this video and going out of your way to be nuanced, informed, and respectful of the community. I can't wait to possibly see more videos like this in the future! Autistics aren't a monolith, and I feel the video did a great job highlighting the type of autistic presentation shown by Wednesday. I do want to mention for anyone who happens to be reading this comment that autistic people can also be hyper-empathetic, cartoonish levels of expressive, very very tuned into social cues, etc, and those who mask in such a way that they appear neurotypical to many. And each of these aspects of autistic presentation can vary in either extreme, changing day to day, person to person.
Thanks! That's the comment I wanted to write. I do know a few autiadadler and I have the most meaningful, deepest and earnest conversations with them. Or people who fight/fought depression. It's just not the small talk. And they are straight forward, which often is considered "rude". I appreciate it. And honestly: I hate that flat small talk that neurotypicals seem to like...
Thank you for this comment! I was just diagnosed about a year ago at 49 and I'm not sure if it's because of being a woman (apparently we tend to be 'better' at masking), but I'm definitely on the hyper-empathetic, very expressive, very attuned socially, etc. end of things. My markers are more things like my intense special interests, a need for structure and systems, social anxiety (possibly from being so hyper-aware in social interactions), executive dysfunction issues, texture sensitivity, etc. But yeah, we can all be sooo different than one another (just like neurotypicals!) and while I REALLY LOVE the character of Wednesday and the show, about the most she and I have in common is our similar sense of style (I'm a goth) and our hyper-focus on our areas of interest. Still, as with many other autistic people I've known, there's still more of a familiarity there with her personality than with neurotypical people and so she ultimately still feels like 'family' and someone I'd really get along with easily.
As a person with High functioning autism this makes me feel so good to know that some people actually acknowledge the fact that not all autistic people are obviously autistic. Even after 4 years of having my diagnosis, people still easily forget that my brain works differently and I have resorted to making a point to subtly mention my autism quite often just so they remember that I don't always understand what they mean or feel. I've almost lost my best friend because I don't know how I'm supposed to maintain a relationship, and they needed constant validation that I cared.
@@JustCallMeM hey, just wanted to let you know that majority stoped using high functioning and low functoning labels. since it's not always that easy. they now usually refer to using the terms high and low support needs. since it can change from day to day how you are able to function. like if your not having alot of spoons one day you might have more support needs then when you have a better day with alot of spoons.^^ you can use what you want of course depends what kinda label you feel more comfy with just wanted to inform that the labels high and low support needs exist too (i don't mean to "correct" you or anything like that. so hope it does not come off like that.)
The hug makes sense because Wednesday had just gone through a severely traumatic event. I don’t hug ordinarily but if something has happened to break down my sense of safety to that degree I am far more likely to accept a hug from whoever offers it. It has to be to a point of dissociation almost, but that’s where Wednesday is. Enid represents a safe and familiar presence by this time in the story. The blood no doubt also makes her more reassuring. ;) Make no mistake, Jonno… we understand the emotions of neurotypicals EXACTLY AS MUCH as they understand ours. Such that both sides find it hard to believe the other is telling the truth. “How can you not like hugs and eye contact?” “How can you tell they’re mad if they can’t be bothered to freaking say so?” We can’t believe they have so little respect and keep leaping to conclusions, they can’t believe we’re so rude and can’t put two and two together. We can’t believe they talk for so long about nothing, they can’t believe we can talk for so long about one thing. I could go on and on about these human : space alien relations but you get the point. And now I know another reason why I loved this show so much. Also they had a great Uncle Fester and Pugsley is too adorable to be allowable by natural law. And as odd as it is to admit it, I was weirdly hypnotized by the almost magical way Morticia’s boobs were always so perfectly set in her dress. The costume department should be proud. And speaking of magic… a psychologist (the one good one I ever saw myself) taught me about active listening. I think more Autistics should learn this. It’s like a missing piece of the puzzle. Much of social interaction is unnecessarily oblique to what is actually intended such that it’s like being expected to compete in a game with no rules presented. Active listening is a system we can actually learn with practice. If more of social interaction was presented as a system that can be applied, I think we would be able to do better. Considering it works the opposite of how we usually come across, it’s very helpful indeed where you need to counteract your natural tendency to route back to a familiar subject. You can actually make people feel heard instead of the opposite. Very helpful as a parent.
I was so proud of myself when I had this epiphany ALL ON MY OWN! Concepts like active listening are usually things I need to have explained to me, but for this one, it just hit me one day. It was shortly after I had one of the MOST frustrating conversations I can ever remember having, to the point where it didn't even end, we both just walked away. But I couldn't let it because I so often felt this kind of frustration when speaking to people so I let my mind analyze it until it just clicked: neither of us had been *listening* to the other person! And I realized this had been a pattern of mine. That's when I began actively shutting-up & just listening or allowing others to lead the conversation. It was truly revolutionary. Still don't like small talk, but conversations have gotten sooooo much more satisfying.
omg. i learned what it is just now and realised that’s what has been hurting me my hole life - active listening. especially with my mother. i listen so intently, because for me it’s very disrespectful - not to be fully engaged - , picturing all she is saying. and she talks in so irritating way, without conclusions, i don’t understand usually what’s the point of this conversation. all my intense listening and picturing the situation go in vane. i always rage on her because of it. all my energy looses for not showing her my rage. l just realised why i got so tired when i small-talk with her. omg. i must relax my active listening
Being confused about why someone is mad at you is such a horrible feeling because so many people don't want to explain because they think you should already know. Its so horrible and it happens too much for me.
When it comes to the experience of empathy, as an autistic, i can def relate to Wednesday. I have never 'put myself in another's shoes' to feel empathy. I am interested in the facts and experiences of others, and I respect and empathise for them. Even though some have called that "shallow" - for me, it makes that I'm able to empathise with everyone. I've seen that often, people are only able to empathise with people if they can imagine it happening to *them*, and fail to empathise when they cant, like for homeless people, minority groups, etc. Whereas I can't make that distinction. I'm not saying my empathy is inherently better, just that neurotypical empathy has its flaws as well. And that it can be frustrating when your type of empathy is pathologized or completely dismissed.
Iirc this is called "cognitive empathy"! And in my opinion it's extremely valuable, probably even greatly undervalued, because while it may not be the same as the instinctive emotional empathy many experience, like you say, it can be more flexible when you're trying to understand people who are very different from yourself. I think both kinds of empathy are valuable for different reasons and in different situations. It's a great example of why neurodiversity is overall a good thing.
@@studioyokaiYes! I have this! Thank you! I've known for some time that even empathy is a spectrum, but I wasn't aware there were actually terms for different types. I do enjoy learning new things🤗
For me I was too emotionally empathetic, For my own protection I ended up becoming more logically empathetic. So that I can understand the struggles that people go through and I can have empathy for them but I don't feel for them. I have to have that separation because I can't solve the world's problems. If I care too much then I can't function.
Just a thought as an autistic person, I feel like the hug scene at least from my viewpoint would have been first hug as an automatic she is running toward me with her arms out, social cues say hug is appropriate, therefore hug even though it’s uncomfortable. Second hug was looking at her face and seeing “oh that wasn’t enough, she’s still upset” more hug as a kind of I must fix my friend thing. I really liked your viewpoint and I am very excited for season 2.
I saw Wednesday reciprocating the hug as recognizing that Enid needed it. Wednesday didnt fully engage. She was very aware that her hands were bloody. Yes, I cried.
As an introvert, thank you for this! One of my best friends is a huge extrovert. It took her awhile to understand that my tolerance for socializing is limited, and has nothing to do with not wanting to be around her. If my "social battery" is low, and she wants to see me, we get together at one of our houses and do a movie marathon, rather than a bar or party.
@@Touay. I totally understand because I deal with that often enough myself. But if the majority of people were like us then that probably wouldn't be a problem. They are Called Neuro-typical and we are called Neuro-Divergent. So their brains are typical or the norm and ours are divergent from that. But what is normal is based on what "most" people are. Most being more then 50%. If they were more like us and less like them then we would be neurotypical and they would be neurodivergent with no change in the behaviors. It's really simply a matter of numbers. There may be more that are "the norm" then not. But there are still quite a large number of us. Many masking all day long trying to appear "normal" and so we may not know it until you get close enough to them. We aren't broken just different. The point being that the key is to find people like you who will accept your differences. That's what I've had to do. Once you find your "tribe" so to speak, it's a whole lot easier to accept yourself for who you are. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference.
@@Touay. Glad I could be of help. I've been where you are believe me and much appreciated when I was given encouragement from others. I hope you find your people and things get better for you ✨️
Kudos to Tim burton for letting her have feelings sometimes. People are sometimes scared to make Wndsday have any turmoil ever because they think it will take away her wndsday-ness.
Thats all about wednesday, she'll challenge who you are and why you are. She gives so much shit, she cares to share, she bothers to point at things. She thinks she is an outsider because she doesnt show it in the same way.
I dated someone who was autistic, and his dad and sister were as well ( all clinically diagnosed as so ). They all all displayed these traits in different ways, but I loved being around them because of these differences. I wonder if I too might be on the spectrum because of certain behaviors and lack of understanding human interactions at times, but I've never been diagnosed. One of the most difficult things about being in the relationship though was that my boyfriend never saw his differences as beautiful and valuable. He knew multiple languages, had such a beautiful eye for macro insect photography and saw the world in such a lovely way, but he felt that feeling of being "other" being different more than he saw all his amazingness.
I am Autistic and I got my diagnosis when I was 28 years old. This video made me cry a little because it made me remember my school life and how completely different I was, without understanding what was going on with me. Now I work as a Gestalt Psychotherapist and one of my focus is to help people with Autism understand themselves. Thank you so much for your videos, I really enjoy all of them ☺💜
As someone with Aspergers IRL, I love this analysis and the messages in this video!Thank you for informing people about Autism and explaining what Autism is and how people can better interact with them. Growing up, I had to deal with extreme lonliness from constant social rejection or social neglect from my Neurotypical peers. Whenever I tried to be myself around my Neurotypical peers, I always end up emotionally hurt, misunderstood, people misinterpret me all the time, people think that I'm arrogant or selfish when I'm actually not, or people are scared off by my tendency to fixate on my special interests in a more intense, passionate, analytical way than most people would. I always fantasized about having the kind of best friend who would always be there for you and always stand up for you no matter what, and it was like a fairytale, like something from a children's book about friendship that was real for my Neurotypical peers and my Neurotypical little sister whose positive social experiences sound like an absolute fantasy to me, but never for me. I still want to experience those positive social experiences and even find a husband whom I don't have to mask around, who I can express my full emotions around without them telling me that I'm doing something socially wrong somehow, and who will accept me for me. But despite my negative social experiences brought on by my Aspergers, I am quite gifted when it comes to academics and art to the point where most people who meet me IRL consider me a genius. But when that genius comes at the expense of normal social experiences and a normal social life, sometimes I wonder if it is really worth it or if I would be happier if I was born Neurotypical.
Seeking out other neurodivergents has been rewarding for me personally. I am either ADHD or AuADHD (leaning toward the second one) so I can be a bit bubbly at times for some people, but seeking out more NDs has made my kids feel less isolated for sure... And I am starting to feel it as well although it is hard to make friends as a mom. Good luck to you!
PS We can't choose our traits and happiness is kind of fleeting anyway... NTs have lots of things to be unhappy about too. You might like the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, about choosing what we will struggle with in life.
All of what you said hit close to home for me (I was diagnosed late last year with Asperger's) and it just damn hurts but everytime I make a friend I end up hoping that "they are the one"
"I wish I cared a little more." That line resonates with me quite well. I tend to enter situations - every situation I can - with the mindset of "Approach with apathy and you'll never be disappointed." Although it helps with my anxiety and such, keeping me from panicking and worrying, I get chastised for not showing enough emotion. Thus, I've been dubbed "the quiet kid" at gatherings, among various other, harsher titles. "I wish I cared a little more." It's not melancholic. It's not self-pity. It's not making oneself be what others are. It's simply a statement. Not caring, though her and my norm, seems not to be the norm for others. It's difficult to operate as a knife among forks or fork among knives. The metaphor is interchangeable. I forgot what my point was here, or of there even was one, but my words still stand.
I’m AuDHD, and just last night read a paper from 2022 showing that autistic people don’t necessarily have deficits in social communication, but that problems arise from interactions between people with mixed neurotypes (e.g., autistic vs. non-autistic), through the Double Empathy Problem. Essentially, it boils down to a mismatch in expectations and ability to code-switch or otherwise adapt to people with differing communication styles. In fact, in this study (and in the experience on myself and many others commenting on it), using the neurotypical deficit model, it was the neurotypicals in the study with the deficits in communication, not the autists, who got along with each other better than neurotypicals got along with each other in non-mixed situations. Because of the way we’re processing information so differently, we may struggle to pick up on or to express neurotypical social cues, but we’re usually able to adapt (because we have to in order to survive), whereas non autistic people are more likely to be weirded out by us immediately and never attempt to bridge that empathy gap. This has always been the key difference in my interactions with others, now that I think about it: whether or not the person I’m talking with vibes with me, it comes down to whether they judge me by their own expectations of me or adapt their expectations of me to fit me as I actually am, which determines the rapport and success of our interaction. Side note: Wednesday’s reaction to the surprise party wasn’t as much a lack of understanding the social cues and as issue of rigidity and perseveration making the cues she definitely got an unwelcome distraction. She missed the clues before the reveal, but the reaction to the reveal was negative because she wasn’t prepared for the change in plans, and wasn’t ready to disengage from her task. I had a similarly bad reaction when my parents surprised me with a new car (pre-diagnosis) because in the moment, all I could see was the unexpected loss of my best Autobot friend of ten years, not the joy of the 17-year-newer model of my beloved Civic. I even made a joke as we first arrived that it had better not be for me because I’d never give up my buddy as we first arrived, because I was initially told it was for my dad, and (I thought) the idea of it being for me was hilariously ridiculous… when I saw my mom’s face, I realized it was a surprise for me, and then I basically had a mini meltdown/panic episode while I tried to process the loss, the gratitude, and the pain I was causing and unable to stop causing with every passing second. Even after explaining what was going on in my head years later, my neurotypical parents still can’t quite understand it.
I have an asperger's personality and thanks to this series, Wednesday Addams has become one of my favorite movie characters. I really relate to her. Mostly it's how she's really intelligent, but hides emotions a lot because she doesn't know what to do with them.
This! I never saw it this way... Not knowing what to do with all these emotions. So true. For me expressing some emotions would demand a theatrical skill - it is just not natural to me to react to some things like other people do.
I’m neurodivergent due to growing up disabled and learning to navigate life in a different way. I had moments where I really resonated with Wednesday, having the feeling of, “This is who I am. I’m not going to apologize for being myself.” And it felt empowering. Wednesday has her faults, but she’s also a good example of owning who you are.
I know I am neurodivergent and unofficially on the spectrum. People have always been odd to me. I remember being a kid on the playground trying to understand the strange customs and behaviors from my peers. At four years old, I told my mom I was worried about my career because I couldn't pick between being an author or an artist. I thought I was really good at masking, but my friends knew from the start.
I had this experience with one of my students. I was told ahead of time that he was on the spectrum, but it was as a "warning" to accept bad behavior. Luckily, I had prior experience because I have family, friends, and their kids who were at different levels. This young man was very organized, always did everything the same way when he came to put his stuff down, and was exceptionally bright with great questions and conversation about the material. He was just very business-like. It was during Covid year, and we had to have an assignment daily, so I had one content day, then one notes day alternating. He hated the notes part and didn't want to do it because it's not part of his process. So he showed frustration the same way a gifted student does. He didn't see value in it. I explained each time that we had to turn in something daily for attendance and that it didn't have to be word-for-word long notes, maybe just bullet points for new things he learned. I did get buy-in, and that's the only "behavior" thing i noticed. But I can see where people would see that as defiance or talking back. As I said. I was lucky. My nephew is severely autistic and my brother and sister-in-law were really good about learning how to help him and relate to him. The student's mom kept apologizing and saying, "I know he's a handfull," but I just reassured her that he was fine and that I liked him.
Would be nice if you analyze Enid next. Lots of people have read her as having ADHD. And folks who are AuDHD (like I suspect I am) have heavily identified with both Wednesday and Enid. Great video!
Wonderful video on autism. Thank you, for bringing it more to light. Just one thing I’ll mention that I’ve come across many therapists believing is that autistic people lack empathy. Most often that is not the case. In fact, we are extremely sensitive and affected by other peoples pain. It’s overwhelming and we don’t know how to express it. Which is where the misconception comes from. And it’s hurtful to hear and be misunderstood in that way…especially from professionals. Once again thank you for your videos. I always enjoy them 😊
Agreed! My son has ASD and he is empathetic but had to be taught how emotions play out on the face. When very young he would laugh so hard when another kid got hurt and cried... his reason though was because he honestly thought the kid was making a weird face to be funny and had a cool trick of making their eyes water. Once he learned what it meant, he knew laughing at that situtaion was not appropriate so he adjusted. I think if more NTs realized how much effort and thought goes into NDs trying to do things "our way," they would try meeting NTs in the middle more. And that's where NTs can lack empathy for NDs. I'm so sorry therapists have been under that impression of ASDs lacking empathy! Being misunderstood and underestimated like that -by a professional in particular- is probably so incredibly frustrating as well as hurtful. All piled on top of you trying to process the other person's emotions. That's a lot.
I am on the spectrum. In Wednesday's interaction with Thornhill (as well as some others) I can't quite tell whether she is trying to connect or to antagonise. She would probably recognise that her blunt approach can alienate others and cause fear and discomfort even if she can't always tell which emotion she provoked specifically. I also feel like in real life, the social pressure to conform, to twist yourself to the expectations of others can help create a facsimile of social social skills even though it' more like applying the rules from a code you don't understand. Wednesday's detachment is (from my experience) unusual and typically Addams.
And well being in a family that supports AND are divergent themselves and expect oddness... That seems to work out similarly in real life. Supported autistics in autistic and ND families seem to thrive compared to their peers who have to mask/struggle in their personal AND public lives.
my best friend is autistic, & this helped me understand so much. i am definitely the "soft & sensitive" one in the relationship & never understood how/why she wasn't. thank you for this!! 💚
I’m autistic and would like to offer a gentle correction. Firstly, thank you for continuing to promote the message of "different, not broken" when it comes to autistic and otherwise neurodivergent people. It's clear that you're passionate about helping neurotypical people better understand and engage with their neurodiverse peers. That said, please consider moving away from language that suggests autistic people lack empathy/emotions/intuition, etc. (examples in this video include 2:36, 7:10, 11:18, though it also happened in CT's Lilo & Stitch episode). This contradicts your core message by measuring autistic people against a neurotypical baseline, which is common in the deficit model of disability. In reality, we are often deeply (sometimes excessively) emotional and empathetic. We just experience and express it differently than most neurotypical people have learned to recognize. For a long time autistic people have been described as lacking "theory of mind," but neurotypical people struggle just as much to understand our internal worlds. As you hint at around 9:30, it's not a one-way deficit - it's two people being on such different wavelengths that neither one intuitively understands what the other is trying to express.
As someone who has been plagued by my autism my entire life, to me the most unrealistic part of this entire series wasn't the monsters, it was that people still tried to connect with Wednesday, that they didn't give up on her and tried to understand and give her a place amongst them.. that simply doesn't happen in real life sadly. Those of us who are different are outcasts, ghosts, or even subject for mockery
Thank you for this careful, thoughtful analysis. Love your videos! Just a little note: Some people with ASD do show emotion. It's not a mandatory symptom. The way they show it is likely to still be somewhat atypical (some are quite good at masking, though).
As a neurodivergent person, I deeply appreciate this video for the validation and kindness shown toward neurodivergent folks. I'm gifted/HSP/whatever one might wanna call everything-is-intense-and-I'm-smart-in-a-way-that-is-hard (like, finished college at age 17 and also have a lot of behaviors and thought patterns that are in a Venn diagram with ADHD and ASD). Most of my close friends are also neurodivergent and/or come from other countries, and I find that those folks share the feeling of being "other" and not completely getting social cues as expected. I do observe that often people think neurodivergent folks are antisocial, but in truth a lot of us are highly social and empathetic but also don't react the same way neurotypical folks do in any given situation. I think in general a lot of neurodivergent people I know are actually more thoughtful, kind, patient, and loving than neurotypical people because we know what it is like to be bullied and outcast.
Hi! This is a great video and I love the examination of people with autism in the Wednesday series. Here are just a couple of small notes on language regarding neurodivergence that might help everyone! *We usually try to use person-first language, ie: instead of saying someone is autistic we say “a person with autism”. *”Normal” is a word we tend to steer away from, instead saying things like “neurotypical”. The word “normal” is really loaded in the neurodiverse community. *There’s a common misconception that folks with autism lack emotion or empathy, but very often nothing could be further from the truth. We just don’t always connect emotionally or express emotion in a neurotypical way. This video is a great examination of how people who are neurodiverse sometimes struggle to interact with their friends and peers, and love the videos here at Mended Light in general!
As a fellow autistic person, I can definitely agree with the last point about emotions but as for the first two I don’t really care if someone says I’m not normal because I know I never will be and I don’t want to be. Some people don’t like the word normal but I think rather than trying to erase it from our language, we should focus on removing the negative stigma around not being normal. Also ‘person with autism’ means the same thing as autistic. Autistic is just quicker. I find when people say person with autism it seems to imply they think I shouldn’t want to be called autistic as if being autistic is different from being a person. Just my personal views on the matter, no obligation to agree of course. :)
as someone with ADHD and ASD, i 100% agree with all of this!! ^^^ i also wanted to add that some autistic people are more hyperempathetic (like me!), some are hypoempathetic or have no empathy at all, some are hyperempathetic towards animals/inanimate objects/etc but not people or vice versa, etc - it's a very diverse thing. i've seen some people headcanon Enid as hyperempathetic autistic and Wednesday as hypoempathetic autistic and i can definitely see it ^__^
@@fluffyvoid2619 I agree with you. I'm not diagnosed autistic (my director believes I'm high functioning, I just haven't bothered getting a diagnosis yet) but I do have a physical disability diagnosed and I prefer being called a disabled person over a person with a disability. I see no reason to avoid being called what I am.
*I prefer autistic. For me autism is not a condition, it's just a part of my identity. I am autistic, just as I am a nerd, a software developer and polyamorous. Of course this labeling is pretty personal, but most autistic people I know rather use autist or autistic than person with autism. Person with autism feels belittling and overcomplicated to me. *Normal vs neurotypical or allistic is a good point. Normal emphasizes how we are different from allistic people in a dehumanizing way rather than a descriptive way. *So true, it's hard sometimes. I can be totally overwhelmed by emotion and just not know what to do with it. When my partner tries to help me by asking how I feel I'm like: I don't know? I feel a lot. Mostly BLAAGH and a little of BLBLBLrrr, I know it doesn't make sense but I don't know what I feel, just that it's a lot XD apparently that's called alexithymia, which is common for autistic people.
There is debate whether to use "person with autism" or "autistic person". As an autistic person, I generally prefer "autistic person" but it simply depends on individual preference.
This was a helpful breakdown and very relatable. I haven’t seen the show but I’ve seen the “I’ve really tried…” clip of Wednesday & her friend several times. Always makes me tear up and reminds me of a high school friendship that fell apart, and how it may have felt through her eyes. (Me being more like Wednesday) Fabulous acting, and fabulous analysis. Ty as always.
When trying to explain my neurodivergence to others (high functioning spectrum) I compare it to emotional/social dyslexia. It isn't that I do not feel emotions, I just have trouble recognizing them, both my own as well as those of others.
This hits hard, a lot I needed to hear. I am hearing impaired and visually dependent (despite visually impaired/ legally blind). This seems to mean that I can be considered neurodivergent. There’s a lot I had to learn socially growing up. I wanted social interaction and to feel normal as much as possible but evidently always hung on the fringe or forever outcast. Still learning, in that way but also how to stand my ground and patiently show others or remind them that I can’t always be expected to carry the weight of normal people expectations. My workload, due to neurodivergency and disability, is already higher than average normal persons. I want to be normal, to do what normal people can, and some things I can but need compassion when I can’t. Just show someone compassion/kindness. Thats all we need.
As someone who's ND (ADHD, plus there's been some talk about looking into Aspergers as a possibility) this show was....a gut punch but in a good way. I basically used the show to explain some of my quirks to my partner. Though I tend to be better at masking than Wednesday is (But I compare it to AI art, it's not perfect and there's always something a bit off) and it kinda helped him understand where I'm coming from on a lot of things. That it's not a lack of caring. I care...I just don't show it like "normal" people do. But I do show it.
I'll be using this comparison too. I've used the original Spock and the newest series Spock as well. The scenes that Ethan Peck's Spock has with his fiancée have been a source of treasure. They feel deeply and show it, although differently.
I would love to see more vids about psychopathy. As we know by now, psychopaths do not NEED to be evil. It can be yet another useful neurodivergent type. Our communities thrived if we had someone with the warrior gene on our team, someone with no hesitance to kill enemies without guilt, someone who actually craved the excitement of conflict and fights and getting even and revenge. In other words, a psychopath. But therapists and the public are so hesitant to diagnose it. No-one wants to say someone is a psychopath, no-one wants to hear it about themselves or their loved ones. Yet, the percentage psychopaths and ASS-people are the same- both about 2%. Long story short, I'd think Wednesday is written as neurodivergent- but ASPD. An interesting development is that on Reddit and Quora, more and more people self identify as ASPD. An example is Athena Walker. Maybe they are posturing. But on the other hand, maybe they are the real deal and they are having their own emancipation moment. They say: "As long as I don't break the law, why shouldn't I be open about what I am? Some people are scared off, but plenty of people are drawn to a self described ASPD." Greetings to Jon from another ADD therapist 😊
Wednesday broke and healed my heart at the same time, as an autistic person that still longing and working on my late diagnoses. It was difficult to see her struggles, things that i´ve understood and past throug, but it was harder to see how people could make room for her being and getting better on human connection with love and it wasn´t a option for most of my life. The hardest part, on my perspective, on being autistic (with or without diagnoses): people neuronormative respecting theirs needs and at the same time respecting yours, even without understanding it too much. People are often easy to judge and misjudge others.
i’ve lost the vast majority of my close friends recently because of a lot of what wednesday went through and what you described. i hurt people without realizing it and said things that were taken completely differently than i meant, or they couldn’t understand me and expected me to be different, called me gullible or heartless or that i was lying to them, and it’s caused me a lot of pain and loneliness. this video was exactly what i needed to see. thanks jono.
Well... I didn't expect to end up in the rabbit hole of questioning my neurotype today, but here I am 2 hours after watching this video buried in tabs of articles on autism. I'm now reanalyzing my entire life through a different lens because the more I look, the more I find that parts which never made sense before are kind of falling into place. If this is anything like my past identity explorations, I'll be in label limbo for months, but many thanks to the video and commenters for making me think about this. Even if it's an invalid connection, I'm learning a lot about myself in the process.
Thank you for clarifying that Neurodivergent is not a synonym for autistic but simply a type of it. I have ADHD and CP which is a neurodivergent movement disorder.
You almost got me when you said trying to conform would be a betrayal to ourselves. I've been diag' as neurodivergent a couple of months ago. My whole life had been a succession of people telling me I should show more emotions, show more interest to the people around me or that I'm weird in the way I think/act/talk. Thank you for saying we're not broken because we are neurodivergents!
Excellent Episode, thank you for that Jonno! I am on the autism spectrum (diagnosed recently at age 37) and it is really hard. Just being around people: I feel like in a play and I'm the only one who didn't get the script and never nowing what is going to happen next. Trying to recover from family and teachers not knowing or understanding what is going on. Always labled as shy, socially awkward and lazy, always underperforming and not meeting the mark while doing my best. My diagnosis was a huge relief, but on the outside I mask just well enough that people tend to forget that i have limitations and instead of an adjustment in expectations, I am still supposed to be "more normal" which is soul crushing. Even though they claim to understand my diagnosis. I still feel nobody can see who I really am and I don't even know who I am because of having spent all my life so far trying to be who I was expected to be and failing. But who really knows who they are I guess, talking to people about that, the issue is downplayed and it's said that everybody feels that way, or so I am told. Also I feel emotions extremely deeply and I care about people and not fitting in or offending/hurting others on accident, but it doesn't show on the outside, so it is easy to assume that I don't care. Easy to be misread/misunderstood. Animals are the only safe connections in my life.
Yeah I hate the whole, "Everybody is a little autistic or ADHD sometimes." Good for you, buddy. I'm a lot like that ALL the time! Like they think that since they've occasionally experienced something similar once or twice that ADHD isn't real or that "You're no more Autistic than the rest of us." Like, I don't need to be "more" autistic to satisfy some NT's expectations of me.
Something I'd like clarification (and maybe a whole educational video) on: what exactly makes someone neurodivergent vs "different"? Because sure, people with autism, ADHD etc. think and see the world differently, but technically speaking EVERYONE does. When does someone's unique perspective and way of processing things make them neurodivergent? How deviant from the "norm" does someone have to be before they're no longer just "unique," "weird" or "eccentric"? How is the "norm" established in the first place? How do we determine whether someone has a form of neurodivergence or simply shares similar traits? What types of psychological conditions are considered forms of neurodivergence, and why? Are there disagreements about what things should or should not be in that category?
Really appreciated what was said in this video. I can be split down the middle - I can either come across very monotonous and uncaring or care so much and get told I'm too emotional. It's incredibly difficult to find where on that line I'm expected to be with every single individual relationship.
I'm on the autism spectrum and I just want to thank your for this content; expressing that we bring value to the table and that we're worth accommodating. So much other content is focused on our deficits and masking capabilities and what autistic people are expected to do for the comfort of others, but to be honest, just presenting as "human" consumes soooo much bandwidth that it's exhausting and personally, I have to withdraw to recover from the depletion.
Watching this video and keeping in mind the conversation Wednesday had with Morticia when she was first being enrolled into the academy, where she says something and Morticia says in response "Finally a kind word for your mother" made it click in my head exactly how much it is that Morticia understands Wednesday and how her brain works.
As someone who has both ADHD & autism, I am very pleased with how many representations of ADHD/autistic people in movies & tv we are seeing lately. Wednesday, Evelyn from EEAAO, Katie & Aaron from The Mitchell’s vs. the Machines, etc. Very encouraging to see people like me on the screen being super-awesome and not being cast as some kind of burden to the people around them.
I kinda got the vibe from how she handled her “emotions” as it is pretty similar to how I handle mine(not healthy btw). She builds up her walls all while pretending she would rather be alone, when in all reality she really cares.
I have asperger's and have all the associated social struggles. I really appreciate the way you model compassion and empathy, it helps me relate to NT people in a way they can more easily understand without making me feel like I'm completely faking it
I think that a lot of what I see, at least in the experiences of my friends and I and our kids... Is that seeing the various levels of neurodivergence is also important. Like, my daughter with an ADHD diagnosis and her cousin who is pretty severely autistic from a genetic microdeletion. And then remembering how hard it has been to realize the "oh hey, maybe the reason I always felt and was treated by my family as explicitly different (eg. I literally just told my partners I need a flow chart for all the subtext in a 'normal' conversation with my folks 😂😅) is because I AM wired different and that is ok" ... Like finally realizing I am neurospicy and learning what flavors as an adult is helping me be a better parent and a better me. So yes, Wednesday might be coded autistic, and I wouldn't be surprised, but even that diagnosis we need to be aware is on a spectrum, as well as that a lot of things we see as symptoms for things are more ... Studied in guys. Like we all know a male heart attacks symptoms, but women's can be identical to panic attacks and only differentiated by the EKG and blood tests.
I’m going to be honest- I am neurodivergent and I struggle so heavily with trying to get people- neurodivergent or otherwise, just anyone who isn’t similar “enough” to me- to conform to my standard of “being.” This channel is really helping me to realize the true differences between people and also that other people struggle with this too. Hearing this perspective is really helpful! I love this channel now, even more than Cinema Therapy (which is saying a lot!)
Wednesday in her previous versions was super smart, perceptive like a psychic, very logical and somehow like an adult. She was like super human child earlier.
It's interesting because I have two kids with ASD (both high-functioning and neither is a teenager yet) so I'm usually pretty receptive to signs of ASD in others yet it hadn't occurred to me with Wednesday. Maybe it's because I went into it with expectations of her unusual behavior and viewed it as normal for her. I viewed her pushing people away and lack of connection as an intentional rejection of friendship because she felt friends were more of a liability in her endeavors and didn't see the benefit of it, or possibly as a trauma response from her childhood where she had friends but her unusual tastes caused them to reject her and she developed her uncaring nature as a means of protection. I felt that the scene with Bianca was showing that she was aware of social cues but that she had actively avoided responding to them for so long it became second nature and it was hard for her to overcome that even though she was starting to want to develop friendships. The hug at the end was basically her finally relenting and accepting that there was a positive aspect to friendship and forcing herself to make that effort to open up again. Thank you for your astute observations, Jono! Keep up the good work!
This is where I struggle… I have BP, ADHD, and autism, and I don’t identify with so many things that are “coded” as autistic. I feel emotions strongly, I have a very deep empathy and sense of justice… I just don’t always know how to communicate that. I’m blunt, I’m honest, and I want to get to the root of the issue, but I’m not unfeeling. I’ve learned to mask, to ask the right questions, to keep a conversation going, to make people comfortable… but when I get nothing back I get stuck. If they’re not doing the thing, I have nothing to go off of, and I’m completely lost. I’ve had to start reminding myself that I’m able to mask because I’ve had to… and some neurotypical people are just bad at conversation lol.
I think the focus on direct speech as an autistic trait is a case of being biased by American culture. Dutch and Nordics would mostly consider a lack of superficiality as a way to show that you already believe there is a connection.
Autistic here *waves* since I was a kid I always thought I couldn’t be autistic cause I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum where I feel waaay too much than nothing really and I want so desperately to make connections it comes off like wow, and I was abused and conditioned to understand basic social ques or else; so now in my 30’s and my last therapist and I worked out I’m the way I am cause all these reasons AND autistic. I switched to a specialized therapist for autistic individuals who experienced a lot of trauma in the name of conforming and it was very eye opening. Being autistic isn’t the same for everyone and having shows like this display autistic individuals even a little is helpful. I hope that the mass media companies can do some research and one day be able to show a bit more of the whole spectrum, so that little kids and their parents can realize ohh maybe our child is just a bit different, instead of forcing them to conform “for their saftey”
I am neurodivergent but I really like hugs, since I usually don't understand verbal queus, the non verbal parts of relationships are easier for me to relate to
I have ADHD and a lot of my life is people tellme that I’m obnoxious and annoying or abrasive for things I can’t control. Growing it was asking rude and uncomfortable questions and not understanding why i was being disciplined or why it’s not a question i should ask. Or getting yelled for crying while be scolded for something. They would accuse me of trying to get sympathy when in reality it was uncontrollable guilt
When the teacher said the thing about "being in both worlds", I feel like I personally relate to that due to having ADHD. Part of me doesn't fit in with more neurotypical people because they don't understand why I can present so normal and capable, but still somehow fall short of expectations, and the other part of me just fully doesn't belong with other neurodivergent people either because I feel like I am too normal or not as bad off as they might be so I don't feel like I deserve to receive the care I know that they need. It's as if I am an outsider to both worlds. Like someone who is a jack of all trades, but a master to none. Edit: I forgot to mention I haven't watched this series by the way so I have no other context than this video.
I showed this video to my autistic partner, she thought the message of this is so good for embracing difference, but some of the statements about autism are a bit outdated now for example not being able to empathise Great video, hopefully keeps the conversation alive and progressing.
As someone recently diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum at age 57 (the diagnosis previously known as Aspergers), I really appreciate your appreciation of all types of people with their own unique gifts. Of course, there are downsides as well. I work on an IT helpdesk with emails, instant messages, call and chats going on at the same time (yes, that includes a chat and a call at the same time), and I am driven away from people by it just to avoid the over stimuli.
You are not seeing emotions, but they are there. Autism is like transmitting and receiving on black and white, or sometimes in radio. When others are full color 4k. It's easy to dismiss as "lack of emotions" but everything is still there, just being transmitted in a way that requires a bit more engagement to see for what it is.
I'm Neurodivergent. I love all the Wednesday characters/depictions. I'm not a doctor or psychologist or psychiatrist...but I think it's risky to ponder whether anyone, let alone a fictional character is Neurodivergent/has ASD/Is Autistic/on the spectrum...especially if it's not been asked or outright stated by the person (in real life)/or the creators (in fiction). I think automatically attaching a diagnosis to a person/character will make it so that people who aren't Neurodivergent but are maybe different in other ways feel disconnected from that character. Also I know and love plenty of people who are "normies" or not Neurodivergent that often feel flat or are flat or chilly in personality, that don't desire to engage in popular social construct. This isn't a disability or a defect. It's just them. We need to be able to recognize that not all people who have a different social orientation are on the spectrum. Not that anything is wrong with that. What I'm saying is that we need to stop addressing that difference as a socialization. Again, I am Neurodivergent and I do understand what it's like to be an outsider. I am more sensitive though I'd say (not all Neurodivergents are flat) but I understand what it's like to want to be different...and to feel and think of other things in a more "traditional" way. But I also understand that there are people out there that are simply different without a diagnosis.
the thing about how wednesday navigates conversations differently completely went over my head. i just thought it was normal and the weird thing was just her dry humor... most of my friends are neurodivergent and we have great conversations like that😭 at work i always have to remind myself to ask questions because when they ask "what are you doing this weekend?" i recognize that they expect me to ask the question back way too late. they probably only asked because they wanted to tell me what their plans are, not because they care about mine. the mental gymnastics to keep the conversation going is exhausting. neurotypicals want to be invited to share but around neurodivergent people the fact that we are having a conversation is invitation enough. at least that's what it feels like to me. i found the best i can do with my uhm not so great social skills is listen very carefully. even if my questions or lack of questions might not always be appreciated, the fact that i will always listen is. we all want to be heard.
I connect with Wednesday and loved watching the series. I am not on the spectrum, but I am an introvert and I have lived outside a typical box my whole life. At times I can be extroverted, but the distance that Wednesday keeps is something that I am very familiar with and comfortable with. I have often recognized that I probably should have asked questions about someone after the fact, but I simply didn't think about it at the time. I am not shy, but the gap between what feels comfortable to me and what others expect of my behavior can be quite large. The friends that I have kept have learned that I may not be present daily, weekly, monthly, but I will always be there when they need me. The "social niceties" that are difficult for Wednesday have always been difficult for me as well.
I didnt talk till i was 5, was always different to others, struggled to talk to others, make friends etc. It wasnt till i met my husband and he was telling my mother that he had aspergers that she told me that a teacher told her when i was EIGHT that i may have it and to get me tested. I have lived my whole life in the dark thinking something was wrong with me all because my mother didnt want to acknowledge that i was different and people may think less of her for having a neurodivergent child
Was late diagnosed at 48 and seeking the assessment was one of the best decisions I ever made. It explained so much about my life and how I interact with people and how I always found it so hard to relate and make/keep friends. I thought, for the longest time that there was something wrong with me, that I was broken somehow or simply that I was an idiot with no social skills. But that diagnosis was a huge weight being lifted and I allowed myself to begin to relax, embrace my weirdness and be a lot less hard on myself.
Thank you nurodivergent people are not broken we are different. Another thing we do have empathy it is just different than yours. All you have to do to see this is change the way you look at things and the things you look at will change just like Wayne Dyer said.
Totally agree! To me, when people expressed their empathy as an emotion, I thought they were being selfish. In my mind, that emotion just took focus and energy away from who/what their empathy was directed at. In my (probable) ASD mind, if you really cared, you’d get yourself under control and help! 🤦♀️😂 I’m better at understanding the value of that type of empathy now, and great good that can come from it, but non-emotional empathy is also valuable. It’s the type of empathy that allows you to rush to physically help people during their most traumatic moments and be able to clear-headedly meet their needs in the face of their pain and blood and brokenness, and continue to do so over time without having to become too cynical. @SotBU, I’m not sure how your empathy presents, but I have no doubt that you being you brings value to this world.😀
I appreciate this on so many levels. Especially the reminder that "it is simply a different way of being." Growing up in a neurotypical world, there is this constant internal struggle between allowing my children to just be EXACTLY who they were created to be, and that conditioned belief that we have to "do better, be better" that I grew up with. I am so grateful this world is starting to see the value of differences. The issue now is learning to correct years of conditioned behaviors and beliefs that told us had no value until we assimilated and trying to stay in the middle. Thank you again
I am autistic, only realized that recently (like 2 years ago, I am 25). I always knew I was weird and bringing cringe vibe everywhere amongst people, I just became very scared of any human contact. Now I'm finally kinda getting the rules of the social game that everyone's involved in. I am less scared, partly because of the realisation of my autism. Thank you for covering this topic. ❤️
I'm undiagnosed, but this is just confirming my suspicions more and more. Wednesday was always my favorite of the Addams Family because I could relate to her. I didn't even realize that asking straightforward, factual questions could be considered a lack of empathy. Because if I didn't care, I wouldn't respond at all. You can't solve a problem by saying, "Oh, that sucks." You have to consider the options and the resources at your disposal, like the amulet in the clip. (I haven't seen this show, so I don't know the full context of the scene, but that's what I gathered from what was shown.)
I am AuDHD (autistic and ADHD) and both of my kids are autistic. I absolutely love everything about this video! It is exactly on point! Every autistic person needs to hear the validations that are given by this therapist. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!! Something that should be expounded on is the way autistic people show emotions. We may not emote our feelings externally, but we definitely have them internally. (They just might be more intellectualized rather than deeply experienced.) For me, when I emote my feelings I sometimes (not all the time) feel like I am acting on a stage. It is like classic Greek theatre and putting on a happy or sad mask so that the audience can see what I am experiencing. (Like when Christina Ricci’s Wednesday Addams smiles for the camp counselors in Addam’s Family Values. She chooses to smile, because it is expected of her and she doesn’t want to be isolated anymore.) This process is exhausting and why I can “socialize” with people who aren’t close to me for much shorter periods of time than would be expected. This is why small talk with strangers can be excruciating for Autistic people. It’s exhausting constantly having to intentionally emote when it doesn’t come naturally, and is another reason why autistic people tend to have just a couple very close friends, who they don’t have to mask for. These friends understand and won’t judge the autistic person for lack of visual emotions.
I have ADHD, not autism, but I relate to Wednesday. My mind goes, "what are the facts? how can I use the facts to find a solution? I need to find a solution to help this person" instead of "oh sorry that sounds hard". I'm like a hybrid of Enid and Wednesday. Wednesday's approach to the world, Enid's focus on attending to the needs of others. The end result confuses people. I don't jump to empathizing but if you mention you need something I will get it for you unasked for. I will show up at your door with the supplies needed to fix your bathroom tiles. I will not say the correct supportive friend things. I don't dislike you or feel obligated to help, I'm *trying* to help, I want to, I like you, I would not be here with the cleaning supplies to get your dorm room done by the time you need to check out if I didn't. But I never come across as caring. I'm doing something incorrectly. I don't know what. I guess the point of Wednesday and Enid is to just keep trying and scoot yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone and see what you can learn by doing so.
I really like that you point out the difference in showing how Enid shows caring for a loved one vs how Wednesday shows it (by helping Enid get a date etc.) I recognise this in my parenting a lot. I sometimes feel like a failure when I see my husband or other parents be so empathetic and lovely with the kids, while I am more focused on the factual stuff of raising the kids, guiding them to become adults etc. I just thought it was one of my flaws, that I was unable to love my kids the way neurotypicals love and care. But it's not that, I love them to pieces and I now realise I just show my affection differently, like Wednesday.
I don't think there's a single show I'd love to see you cover more than "The Last Of Us". There is sooooo much in every episode for you to cover, you'll love it.
I haven't seen this show at this point, but I'm autistic so I decided to watch your video. And I was crying throughout the whole thing. Even as an autistic person who has supportive friends and family, hearing your compassionate take on it was very helpful. It's easy even still to fall back into feeling like something's wrong with me, and hearing you, a stranger, validate my differences as being ok, was somehow very moving.
I force myself to unmask to the kids at my church (I'm a teacher) about my neurodivergent struggles. I am always honored, surprised, and happy with how open and accepting they are. I am the most immature, disorganized, and strange Sunday school teacher, and they like me in spite of it. I love those kids so much. But none more than my ADHD son. He is a dream come true.
Not broken, just different. Thank you. I feel like the terms people use talking about us are always geared as us being problems to be fixed, when in reality we try to fit in, but society refuses to make room for us to do so. We just cant reach the point they want us at. Move the goalpost closer and understand us the way we have to understand you
Again, thank you. I was 32 when I was diagnosed. Relationships were always hard. I've decided that I really only feel comfortable socializing with select few people. I'm bad at romantic relationships. I wonder if Wednesday also has "the rules". Every time I interact with someone, I start cataloging. What do they respond to, what do they like to talk about, how do they socialize. Rules get made to try and fit in better. I remember everyone from the first encounter. I can recall quotes from conversations from 30+ years ago. This can be a problem though, because lying and insenerity also get cataloged. "That's not what you said when..." etc. I tend to relate best to children and animals, so I rescue animals and teach children. I don't like spending too much time with other adults socially as I find it much too stressful to constantly shift to meet expectations.
My son is on the autistic spectrum and it is nice that not only were we able to live in the same place while he was growing up, but the kids he grew up with accepted him as he was. I once apologized for something odd he did and I was told not to worry about it, "That's just Benny." 😊 Also, watching this video helped me realize that I am also on the autism spectrum, but it isn't as obvious as I was always quiet growing up and I am a people watcher. That combination allowed me to learn social cues from watching people and actors in movies. People just assumed I was a bookworm. I did read any and all books I could get my hands on, so I was one, but it also got me out of a lot of social interactions that might have otherwise overwhelmed me. I do like it when people are politely blunt as I don't pick up on tactful hints. I am much better at picking up subtle jokes after being married to a witty jokester. 😏Years of practice help. But I still struggle with subtle social cues. I sometime unconsciously pick up on them, but don't always know what to do with the hints my brain gives me.
I am a hugger, and I have a lot of female friends for that reason because most men have issues being hugged by other men. I became friends with this girl in college who wasn't a hugger, but I was unaware of that and she didn't tell me. After a few months, I was hanging out with some other friends and they casually mentioned (not directed toward me) that my other friend didn't like hugs. In my head I was like "oh crap. I've been making my friend uncomfortable every time she sees me." So the next time I saw her when we were with a group of friends, I didn't hug her. She got offended and said, "Where's my hug?" "I was told that you don't like hugs, and I don't want you to be uncomfortable around me." "Well I like them from you." And we went for a hug. Don't know why she only liked them from me, there was never anything romantic going on, and we still have catch up chats to this day.
I'm not saying it's definitely why but... I know for me, possibly because of my anxiety issues, I don't like being touched unexpectedly or being "forced" or feeling coerced into it, and this is USUALLY particularly the case when it comes to receiving hugs from guys, because I'll be frank, a lot of guys out there seem to use it in a... shall we say non platonic sense. Which feels... threatening or unsettling.
Like, if I barely know a guy and he's trying to hit on me and then just... hugs me, that's incredibly creepy, unsettling, and makes me feel unsafe; I had a customer once when I was working retail, who was hitting on me and trying to convince me to meet him somewhere by myself to "model" for his photography...and before he left the shop, he spontaneously just. Hugged me. And he did it from the front, in a way that pushed my boobs up against his chest. I was SO creeped out! Even though he didn't physically "threaten" me, that made me, in my own body, feel Unsafe.
But.
There have always been a small number of people from whom hugs are just... nice . Whom I feel safe with. I like those!
From the sound of it she knew you were a general hugger not just around her, and not like straight up just trying to flirt or cop a feel from her.
So to me, it sounds like she enjoys hugs from you because because you don't make her feel unsafe, and maybe even actively help her feel at ease. The fact you immediately were willing to back off from the behavior when you thought she was uncomfortable with it speaks volumes, in a good way.
It reminds me of my dad and how even some of the most wary pets would gravitate toward him because he was so gentle and respectful of them.
It's a wonderful thing. I'm glad she felt safe enough to enjoy your hugs and that you're still in touch ❤
I think it is great that you reacted that way! I hate hugs and here in Germany as soon as you know a person just a little bit better, it is common to hug as a form of saying hello. I am always glad when its over ^^ I play along because i know that the others will think i dont like them (no matter how often i explain that that is not the case), but really i woulkd be glad if i dont have to touch a single person for the rest of my life apart from my boyfriend. He is literally the only exception. I dont even like my parents hugging me. And i am not autistic or anything, i am just really not a touchy person. I also think handshakes and clapping on the shoulder and all of that is just so annoying ^^
I think its great when people respect that :)
ND guy dating a ND girl and she's your friend. My GF doesn't like a lot of things from other people that she loves from me, and certain other close folks in her life.
i love this story ❤
Maybe you give her an excellent hug!
I remember in the original movie with Christina Ricci when she's forced to go to camp and Morticia says "Wednesday is that the age when girls only have one thing on their mind", to which the councillor jokingly asks "boys?" and Wednesday replies "homicide". As someone who is autistic and absolutely loathed school activities that feeling is so relatable.
I feel like for girls at that age, it's usually one or the other... if not both....
As an Aro who also hated activities, it *is* relatable!
@@jessi8252 as an ace, this is 100% on point for me too.
Wednesday was always my favorite character, ever, because she was so relatable to me. And especially because she wasn't written to satisfy some social quota like today.
I remember just being angry all the time because of how depressed I was and I felt relieved when I watched that. Felt very relatable to me at the time 🤣🤣
As someone on the autism spectrum myself, I really appreciate your emphasis on how important it is for autistic people to be accepted for who they are, both by themselves and others. It took me years to realize that there is nothing wrong with me for not understanding people's emotions and social cues and to instead look at all the strengths I get from autism. I really appreciate when those with a public platform like you use your expertise for more autism discussions and acceptance.
That's really nice, and good to keep in mind. My brother says I have autism "according to a friend of his in the medical field" and that I need to "fix" certain aspects of my behavior so that I am more in conformity with the rest of society (and he's the only one I know who thinks I'm not in conformity with society). Thing is, I myself don't think I have autism!!! Nothing wrong with it... it's just... it ain't me! But the idea that I have to "fix" myself to please him. So this is good to keep in mind.
I agree with everything you’re saying, as someone who also is on the spectrum ❤. Thank you
Neuro divergent people aren’t just with autism it’s all different mental illnesses and all that shit. So, it pisses me off that autistic people assume characters who aren’t even autistic and look like all different mental illness or disablities because a lot of them have similar traits or looks from the outside.
Right? Most "therapists" just want to cure/treat us. It's nice to see one who actually wants us to be accepted for who we are
@@georockstar09 I suggest looking up the traits of autism for yourself and coming to your own conclusion, because when my mom first suggested that I might be autistic I thought she was crazy, but then when I did some research I realized how much of the traits I related to. And not long after that, I was diagnosed
Please please please do not mistake not being able to see emotion in a person with that person not feeling. I live this mis-read regularly. I hurts when I am accused of not feeling (or not feeling enough) in person and even more when it gets passed to me second hand. Yes, I am guarded and use my face weird; these facts are a far cry from "not feeling"
THISSSS!
I feel this.
Sometimes I have to worry that I'm not reacting enough, and that people will think I'm not taking things seriously enough. Sometimes I react too much, and people tell me that I'm prone to panicking.
I can talk to people about almost anything, but I very rarely talk to anyone about a few topics that are way too close to me. So people don't see me connecting with them, only on a superficial level.
Sometimes I'm told to open up and relax, that I can open up with them. But then when I open up on my thoughts, I offend people half the time. How am I supposed to open up and also consider other people's feelings while feeling so vulnerable at the same time?
And people wonder why I'm so guarded.
RBF is a curse for the ND!!
We have learned to live our lives by masking because people do not react well to us when not masking.
This means that for us there are no "natural" expressions. Everything is a carefully chosen degree of expression. This gets us by a lot of the time, but other times it makes us come across as insincere or trying too hard.
What to others can seem like an unemotional state is simply is not sharing, usually because we don't know how much to share and how to share it
I was having similar thoughts with the talk about empathy. Mostly because my particular flavor of ASD lands on being able to empathize almost excessively in terms of feeling what someone else is feeling but not knowing what to do with those feelings so not expressing that empathy or expressing it in a really weird way.
I think here it's maybe not talked about because we don't have her internal voice to go on so there's no way of really knowing what she is or isn't feeling. As viewers of a TV show we just have to go on her external voice and what she is showing and saying which is outwardly very emotionless. We can't just ask her like people should ideally be asking you. It would be nice to see that addressed.
I’m autistic, diagnosed about a year ago, so there is still so much I am learning about differences in neurotypes. And this video taught me something about neurotypical expectations. When Wednesday was talking to Bianca, it never once struck me as odd that she asked for more info instead of “empathizing” with her. To me, that WAS her empathizing with Bianca.
I had the exact same reaction!
me too!!! same with the line "is it because you're the only normie..." because for me, that line made complete sense and it meant that she cared and was willing to engage, I never viewed it as her focusing on the facts, that was her being empathetic for me!
@@anacarolinasouza3804 Exactly! Asking the question showed she cares. I feel like my 16-year-old self would have acted very much the same way.
How do you get diagnosed as an adult? How did you know to get tested?
@@anacarolinasouza3804 exactly!! The "empathetic" answer of "that sounds rough" sound so superficial/cookie cutter and conversation ending. If you say "I know how you feel" with no explanation, it again sounds fake. If you give an example, it sounds like you're turning the conversation to yourself.
So asking more about that person's situation (and with insight too!!! Noticing teacher being only normie could be hard, and noticing Bianca's amulet is supposed to help with her problems) sounds like the best response..
It's interesting how you point out the moments where Wednesday could have expressed empathy, but instead goes straight to the facts. When someone shares something important or sad with me, "that must be hard" is something I have to actively remind myself to say. To me, it feels like empty words. It feels artificial. Whereas asking for more info about the situation, or offering my own experience in response, feels like a genuine exchange, which is how I show that I care. I have trained myself to verbalise my sympathies, though, because it is clearly important to many people.
I have also become hesitant to respond in situations like that, because I'm afraid of appearing like I'm making it all about myself. I'm afraid my friend will think I'm dragging the spotlight away from them and onto myself. The thing is: in my brain, there is no spotlight to drag anywhere. Instead, there's a rain cloud hanging over my friend, and what I'm doing is stepping under it with them so that they're not all alone in the rain.
🌧 🌧❤️❤️ that's so sweet
I think as someone who also likes to reply with Stories, I have to remember "that sounds hard or sorry to hear that." As well. For me, I try to think of it like emotional punctuation. You help the other person feel heard that way.
However I found this post insightful and I appreciate it. 🌧️🌈🌦️
This is exactly me too! I am not good with sympathising and empathising, I iust learn and tell my similar experiences. (Or I don't respond at all due to me not knowing how to). I've had a lot of difficult friendships where they always thought me askijg a bunch of questions was me ignoring what theyre saying, or me saying my own experiences is me making it about myself. When that is the only way that I know how to sincerely communicate.
i get this on such a fundamental level it's ridiculous. when a friend is telling me about their struggles or what they're going through, my first impulse is always to gather more information by asking questions and try to solve the problem by giving advice or presenting possible solutions i see, often drawing parallels to my own experiences. i want to understand what they're experiencing and i want to help them find a way through it, because that's how my empathy works. it took years for me to learn that sometimes that isn't the help they're looking for - sometimes they just want someone to hear them and validate their feelings, or someone to reassure them that they aren't at fault for whatever situation they're in.
nowadays i've trained myself to respond with "that sounds really rough, how can i be here for you right now?" or "do you want empathy, comfort, or advice?", but even that sometimes misses the mark because it's interpreted as less sincere than if i had offered whatever form of support they're looking for, as Enid puts it, without having to be told.
Same. I always had the same intentions, but then I thought about what frustrates me with my family members when I'm venting to them and a big thing is that they never seem to address what I've said properly. They either try to solve it which is often unhelpful or they jump to another conversation without responding at all. I realized that what I need is someone to validate what I'm feeling because for some reason I can relax when someone else "agrees" with me about my situation, but I keep being anxious and upset until then. So realizing that what I need is actually someone to say "yeah, you're right, that sucks" has made me try to start doing that for other people more.
My best friend is autistic and one of the best things for our friendship was me getting diagnosed with ADHD. While looking into ADHD and comparing it to autism I suddenly realized that the major differences between the two correlated with the biggest tensions in our friendship. Particularly, when I would suddenly cancel or change plans. I never knew why it was such a big deal. To me, changes in plans are usually exciting or a relief, even if I was looking forward to the original plan. And I get extremely frustrated and feel on edge if things are too predictable for too long. So I didn't realize that she actually needs that predictability. Now I do my best to stick to plans and if I might have to change or cancel them I make sure to let her know as early as possible so she has enough time to prepare for that possibility as well
You're a good friend, you actually listened to her needs ! My friends ignored my repeated demands for being contacted by written means (text or e-mail) before calling me, as I hate the unpredictability of a unannounced phone call and get really stressed out by it, especially if it has been a long time since our last contact. Their dismissal of my need is one of the reasons I first stopped having contact with them then stopped being friends with them altogether. Now I have only one friend, not a close one but at least, since she's autistic like me, she doesn't call me without warning (she even doesn't call me at all, we talk via text when not in each other's direct presence and we're happy with that).
And that's why having both is a daily rollercoaster lmao
Yeah, that's a dick move, ADHD/Autism or not. Don't do that shit. I'm glad you're doing better.
@@littlemoth4956 that’s not necessarily true.. it depends on the friendship. My best friend and I both have adhd and it is very common for us to change plans or not follow through with plans. To go weeks without talking and then talk every day for a month. Some people thrive on change and some people don’t. But I wouldn’t consider it a dick move to do what’s best for you and your relationships.
My husband is ADHD and I'm autistic; makes for some interesting struggles but it's great when we can make our differences complement each other! He keeps me flexible and I am his working memory 😁❤
Neurodivergent here: I am in the ADHD category of this mindset away from the norm: I love the Addams family so much because they love each other being different when many “real” families are quick to judge or shame a person with a different brain.
Great Video!!!
That's such a sweet interpretation! I've loved them since the 90s Addams Family Matters movie and I totally get that vibe. ND ppl understand that lesson deeply, even if it's relatable to many.
That is a wonderfull one. It also ties into what Johnathan said on the 1st dive into Wednesday, how Pugsley "gets it," that she just shows emotion differently. If you look at this Pugsley and Gomez having ADHD (can totally see it, trying to get diagnosed for Adult ADHD myself), it really clicks since people with different neurodivergencies can often click and just "get" each other more easily than neurotypical people, even if they are vastly different "types" of divergence. Autism and ADHD tend to click especially, because both are prone to hyperfixations, and don't mind the infodump, or even welcome it.
Wait, ADHD is considered “neurodivergent”? Yes, I’m actually asking.
@@Miss_Camel yes, ADHD is type of neurological disorder. It is neurodevelopmental/neurobehavioral disorder. There ADHD brain differ from typical brains in how they function.
@@piiajarvinen2554 Their*, and I maintain that we’re just significantly more entertaining than everyone else. However, if it’s something I could claim for benefits, I’ll definitely add it to the list!! Sadly, ADHD as I am, and with my severe panic disorder, etc, I’m….still not neurodivergent. I AM mentally ill (No, not bc of ADHD), but I know my lane and how to stay in it..
It never occurred to me that Wednesday might be ND, particularly autistic, but it makes sense. The rest of the family are very affectionate towards each other. When Morticia, Gomez, and Pugsley are leaving Nevermore and Pugsley throws his arms around her, while Morticia knows to give Wednesday space...
Hyperfocus, while most strongly associated with ADHD, is part of autism, as well.
I think she, at first, hugs Enid back because Wednesday understands Enid could have died. But after a few moments, she realizes that she needs the hug as well.
I was thinking that I relate to much of what Wednesday goes through because many of her struggles (and those of neurodivergent people as well) are based on societal or cultural expectations that I relate to just because my folks are immigrants lol. And knowing how different Wednesday’s upbringing was...
Thank you so much for this message. As an ND person (mostly ADHD with a few extras) I've been suffering from being misunderstood all my life, and I've constantly been told there was something wrong with me and "that's not how people are supposed to behave".
I'll never forget the moment we were told in school to never trust anybody who won't look you in the eyes, because "they have something to hide". That really HURT, because I can't even lock eyes with people I'm really close with, much less total strangers. I had to learn to stare at the base of the nose to fake looking other people in the eyes just to not be outcast from society because of this stupid superstition.
On the other hand, my first German teacher will always have a very special place in my heart. She once told my parents (who always tried to force me into masking): "Your child spends most of my lessons staring out of the window, doodling patterns on their books or writing page upon page of made-up words into their exercise book. But when I ask them about the lesson, they always know the correct answer. That's fine with me, teaching is not about feeding my own ego by having children hang on my lips, it's about them learning something. And if they learn best by simply being themselves, that's great! So please stop telling them to sit still and look at me. That's not how their brain works, and that's totally okay."
Your German teacher sounds like an angel. I had a math teacher who made me enjoy learning math, because he always added stories, and he showed me an easier way to add and subtract, which greatly helped me with budgeting later on in life. (ADHD also)
@@purple4216 She definitely was!
As was your math teacher. It's so frustrating, most children ENJOY learning before they are sent off to school were it is turned into this unbearable chore. Bad enough for NT people, but we all know what 'unbearable chore' does to the average ADHD brain ... :(
I (neurodivergent, probably ADHD and autism, undiagnosed apart from anxiety and depression) also had a great teacher who always encouraged me to keep doing what I love, which was drawing and writing. She once told my mother when I was standing next to them, "Maybe they are not that good at math. But it does not matter, they draw amazingly." Up to this day, she is my source of motivation when I just feel like giving up my dreams.
@@calliesdandelions Thanks for sharing, to both of you! Reading about those ND-friendly teachers gives me hope that one day dealing with ND students in a helpful way will be considered the norm, not a rare bonus!
@Ben Nathrai I sure hope so, too! That teacher always let me scribble in my notebooks. Some of my teachers in 5th and 6th grade did, but she was especially supportive and really did not care much if I had finished all my tasks, I could draw and write whenever I wanted. She always praised my artwork, and kept many copies of it, actually. Her support made me stick to creative things, even when my depression got worse. Nowadays, I am an actor and writer. I don't draw much anymore due to lack of time for it in my schedule but I would love to get back into it at some point.
Now back to the topic, I am sure you are going to be an amazing teacher. And I hope it will be more common for teachers to be more ND-supportive in the future, too.
I'm Autistic, and I appreciate the approach you showed here. Its nice to hear someone talk about the strengths of neurodivergence and not just the shortcomings. I'm over 40 and still struggling with social relationships. I WANT to be around people, and I just can't figure out how to make that happen, even though many folks say I'm friendly and fun to be around. It's still impossible to go past friendship or hold a job. It shouldn't be this hard. Just one point of difference in what you talked about in the video. We do have and experience the normal range of human emotions, we just don't express them or show them in ways neurotypical folks recognize. Sometimes we can't identify or label exactly WHAT we're feeling, but we do feel it...sometimes very little, sometimes too much!
Agree! I think the emotions thing is one of the most absolutely misunderstood things about us. And while I do think Jonno might have had a slip of the tongue on that one, it never ceases to astound me how people get us so confused with one of the main characteristics fundamental to ASPD. I guess it's that difficult for some people to understand that *feeling* something & *showing feelings* 💯 do not have to coincide 😶
I think there may be a disconnect in us between the feeling an emotion and the sharing of that emotion that neurotypical people do not have. When talking to a stranger I do not see any reason to share my emotional state, but with friends it's like sharing anything else, you share your joy to bring joy to others and you share your pain to show empathy with another's pain. At least that's how it feels to me. I'm almost 40 and only discovered I'm neurodivergent within the last couple of years. It's weird coming to terms with stuff that I struggled with all my life turning out to be just my brain being wired differently
I really relate to the trouble with emotions. One thing I noticed when I started therapy, the first therapist I spoke with always did that whole 'how are you feeling?' or 'what have you been feeling?' and I hated it, because unless there was something significantly out of the norm I didn't know how to answer so it was always 'fine' regardless because I don't know how to describe what I'm feeling most times (I learned it's called alexithymia). So for a number of reasons I found a different therapist and she actually gives me pointed questions about my week and actual experiences that I could then work on extrapolating my internal experiences from and analyzing them like I would a character in a book. Somehow that makes it way easier in retrospect to figure out what I was feeling at a certain time or why I've reacted certain ways, and helps me kind of recognize similar situations when they come up.
Showing feelings for me is super confusing sometimes because like I want my friends to know I care about their shitty day or their amazing experience or whatever, but I never know what to do or say. So I guess I just try to be there, or message more often with inconsequential things so they know I'm thinking about them, or send random gifts if I see something I think they'd like. I guess it works, but when someone's having a bad experience, like Wednesday said "to be honest I wish I cared more" and could empathize better.
@@echoc7213 I really relate to that. I usually either say something along the lines of "as always" or with friends and family it's usually tired (i have narcolepsy, so tired is my usual state of being). I do have a lot of trouble identifying and expressing emotions.
I'm also terrible at comforting people emotionally.
I just wanted to point out that when Enid says, “Because that’s what friends do. They don’t have to be asked. And the fact that you don’t know that says everything” - that’s a mess. People are not mindreaders. They don’t know the specific needs of others. They do have to be asked. Because every brain is different. Every person is different. Everyone has different needs, even in similar situations. What is affirming and helpful for one person can actually be damaging to another. We need to normalizing asking for what we need, and hearing others when they do.
💯 THIS!!!!!!!👏👏👏👏👏
People definitely need to ask first. I HATE surprises so if I had that happen to me after a long day, I would have been very dismissive or furious with Enid as well. Not everyone needs a party, surprises, or even a ton of people around. I get that Enid is a werewolf, wolves value the pack, but she should have realized others aren't that same. that also says a lot about her.
YEEEEEEES
Excellent point! And this makes me ponder further if Enid's character was supposed to say this as a werewolf, since their alertness to bodily cues would possibly be more heightened than other species of people.
Also worth noting that these are 16yo girls here. They're not gonna be the picture of emotional competence on either side of the stain-glass window 😂 Enid comes to realize after that outburst that what she said (in the heat of a moment after she nearly died multipme times!) was wrong.
My therapist recommended CinemaTherapy to me. I have binged all those videos and now am binging these. I am neurodivergent (ADHD) and diagnosed (along with the ADHD) with clinical depression, GAD, and CPSTD. Y'all's videos have helped me sooooo much--keep up the fantastic work!
YES! I'm goth & autistic. Watching Wednesday was like looking in a mirror. I don't catch all these details because, to me, she acts normally. I don't pick up on the social cues the other characters are giving her either, and she always responds similarly to how I would have, so hearing the non autistic perspective on Wednesday is amusing.
As a neurodivergent person adhd ( some Dr's have had some suspension about autism), the thing about Wednesday is that she is empathetic she does feel but not in the traditional way. Social cues are hard, and a lot of my persona is preppy in a melodramatic kind of way. But I learned to be over dramatic because I was taught that emotional flatness isn't enough cue to know what you actually mean. So I over emphasize my emotions for others.its not me being fake. It's just the times I grew up in that they emphasized cbt and teaching kids the "right way" of emoting. If it were up to me, I'd be more flat. Not like Wednesday per se but somewhere close. Again the emotion is there for Wednesday it's just that she's not over verbalize or emoting. But the care and empathy is 100% there.
this! same experience here, I too ended on the other side of the emoting spectrum. And sometimes is just hard to know how to hit the right spot
@Theveganflower i assume you meant "suspicion"? :-?
@@irrelevant_noob lol yes
I learned how to look and what to say when feeling pain, because otherwise no one would think I got hurt
Yeah! For me, it's totally the same way. Growing up, I always thought that you're only human if you feel emotion, whether good or bad, and as a response to that, I try to over-amplify whatever I feel to others, because I've always been "different" from people. I want to be a part of all of their connections and relationships so badly that I end up covering my emotions with an over-dramatic mask, ironically keeping people from wanting to be friends with me.
I was diagnosed with autism a few months ago as an adult. As a kid I was asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, "a human" I said. Something I have realized as an adult that resonates with many ND people is that "I enjoy being alone but I hate being lonely". It's one of the main struggles that I have with my autism that is made worse by my CPTSD, I struggle to open up to people along with them not wanting to do the same with me.
I watched Wednesday last month to see what all the hype was in the autistic community and I loved it. I'm very new to viewing myself as autistic and related so much to the hyperbolic character of Wednesday, my form of torturing my siblings involved hiding things when they displeased me rather than waterboarding though 😅
as both a goth person and an undiagnosed autistic person I relate hard to Wednesday, especially this iteration. I always found it hard to relate to autistic characters until Wednesday, but she quite literally speaks my language with our shared morbid interests and the way we communicate. The way we both say "I love you" is insults and threats of violence and death. To say I feel seen by Wednesday as a show and character would be an understatement.
I appreciate you making this video and going out of your way to be nuanced, informed, and respectful of the community. I can't wait to possibly see more videos like this in the future!
Autistics aren't a monolith, and I feel the video did a great job highlighting the type of autistic presentation shown by Wednesday. I do want to mention for anyone who happens to be reading this comment that autistic people can also be hyper-empathetic, cartoonish levels of expressive, very very tuned into social cues, etc, and those who mask in such a way that they appear neurotypical to many.
And each of these aspects of autistic presentation can vary in either extreme, changing day to day, person to person.
Thank you!
Thanks! That's the comment I wanted to write. I do know a few autiadadler and I have the most meaningful, deepest and earnest conversations with them. Or people who fight/fought depression. It's just not the small talk. And they are straight forward, which often is considered "rude". I appreciate it.
And honestly: I hate that flat small talk that neurotypicals seem to like...
Thank you for this comment! I was just diagnosed about a year ago at 49 and I'm not sure if it's because of being a woman (apparently we tend to be 'better' at masking), but I'm definitely on the hyper-empathetic, very expressive, very attuned socially, etc. end of things. My markers are more things like my intense special interests, a need for structure and systems, social anxiety (possibly from being so hyper-aware in social interactions), executive dysfunction issues, texture sensitivity, etc.
But yeah, we can all be sooo different than one another (just like neurotypicals!) and while I REALLY LOVE the character of Wednesday and the show, about the most she and I have in common is our similar sense of style (I'm a goth) and our hyper-focus on our areas of interest.
Still, as with many other autistic people I've known, there's still more of a familiarity there with her personality than with neurotypical people and so she ultimately still feels like 'family' and someone I'd really get along with easily.
As a person with High functioning autism this makes me feel so good to know that some people actually acknowledge the fact that not all autistic people are obviously autistic. Even after 4 years of having my diagnosis, people still easily forget that my brain works differently and I have resorted to making a point to subtly mention my autism quite often just so they remember that I don't always understand what they mean or feel. I've almost lost my best friend because I don't know how I'm supposed to maintain a relationship, and they needed constant validation that I cared.
@@JustCallMeM hey, just wanted to let you know that majority stoped using high functioning and low functoning labels. since it's not always that easy. they now usually refer to using the terms high and low support needs. since it can change from day to day how you are able to function. like if your not having alot of spoons one day you might have more support needs then when you have a better day with alot of spoons.^^
you can use what you want of course depends what kinda label you feel more comfy with just wanted to inform that the labels high and low support needs exist too (i don't mean to "correct" you or anything like that. so hope it does not come off like that.)
The hug makes sense because Wednesday had just gone through a severely traumatic event. I don’t hug ordinarily but if something has happened to break down my sense of safety to that degree I am far more likely to accept a hug from whoever offers it. It has to be to a point of dissociation almost, but that’s where Wednesday is. Enid represents a safe and familiar presence by this time in the story. The blood no doubt also makes her more reassuring. ;)
Make no mistake, Jonno… we understand the emotions of neurotypicals EXACTLY AS MUCH as they understand ours. Such that both sides find it hard to believe the other is telling the truth. “How can you not like hugs and eye contact?” “How can you tell they’re mad if they can’t be bothered to freaking say so?” We can’t believe they have so little respect and keep leaping to conclusions, they can’t believe we’re so rude and can’t put two and two together. We can’t believe they talk for so long about nothing, they can’t believe we can talk for so long about one thing. I could go on and on about these human : space alien relations but you get the point.
And now I know another reason why I loved this show so much. Also they had a great Uncle Fester and Pugsley is too adorable to be allowable by natural law. And as odd as it is to admit it, I was weirdly hypnotized by the almost magical way Morticia’s boobs were always so perfectly set in her dress. The costume department should be proud.
And speaking of magic… a psychologist (the one good one I ever saw myself) taught me about active listening. I think more Autistics should learn this. It’s like a missing piece of the puzzle. Much of social interaction is unnecessarily oblique to what is actually intended such that it’s like being expected to compete in a game with no rules presented. Active listening is a system we can actually learn with practice. If more of social interaction was presented as a system that can be applied, I think we would be able to do better. Considering it works the opposite of how we usually come across, it’s very helpful indeed where you need to counteract your natural tendency to route back to a familiar subject. You can actually make people feel heard instead of the opposite. Very helpful as a parent.
I was so proud of myself when I had this epiphany ALL ON MY OWN!
Concepts like active listening are usually things I need to have explained to me, but for this one, it just hit me one day. It was shortly after I had one of the MOST frustrating conversations I can ever remember having, to the point where it didn't even end, we both just walked away. But I couldn't let it because I so often felt this kind of frustration when speaking to people so I let my mind analyze it until it just clicked: neither of us had been *listening* to the other person! And I realized this had been a pattern of mine. That's when I began actively shutting-up & just listening or allowing others to lead the conversation. It was truly revolutionary. Still don't like small talk, but conversations have gotten sooooo much more satisfying.
omg. i learned what it is just now and realised that’s what has been hurting me my hole life - active listening. especially with my mother. i listen so intently, because for me it’s very disrespectful - not to be fully engaged - , picturing all she is saying. and she talks in so irritating way, without conclusions, i don’t understand usually what’s the point of this conversation. all my intense listening and picturing the situation go in vane. i always rage on her because of it. all my energy looses for not showing her my rage. l just realised why i got so tired when i small-talk with her. omg. i must relax my active listening
Being confused about why someone is mad at you is such a horrible feeling because so many people don't want to explain because they think you should already know. Its so horrible and it happens too much for me.
When it comes to the experience of empathy, as an autistic, i can def relate to Wednesday.
I have never 'put myself in another's shoes' to feel empathy. I am interested in the facts and experiences of others, and I respect and empathise for them.
Even though some have called that "shallow" - for me, it makes that I'm able to empathise with everyone.
I've seen that often, people are only able to empathise with people if they can imagine it happening to *them*, and fail to empathise when they cant, like for homeless people, minority groups, etc. Whereas I can't make that distinction.
I'm not saying my empathy is inherently better, just that neurotypical empathy has its flaws as well. And that it can be frustrating when your type of empathy is pathologized or completely dismissed.
That was very well said, thank you
Iirc this is called "cognitive empathy"! And in my opinion it's extremely valuable, probably even greatly undervalued, because while it may not be the same as the instinctive emotional empathy many experience, like you say, it can be more flexible when you're trying to understand people who are very different from yourself.
I think both kinds of empathy are valuable for different reasons and in different situations. It's a great example of why neurodiversity is overall a good thing.
@@studioyokai Weird. From what you describe I think I might have both.
@@studioyokaiYes! I have this! Thank you! I've known for some time that even empathy is a spectrum, but I wasn't aware there were actually terms for different types.
I do enjoy learning new things🤗
For me I was too emotionally empathetic, For my own protection I ended up becoming more logically empathetic. So that I can understand the struggles that people go through and I can have empathy for them but I don't feel for them.
I have to have that separation because I can't solve the world's problems. If I care too much then I can't function.
Just a thought as an autistic person, I feel like the hug scene at least from my viewpoint would have been first hug as an automatic she is running toward me with her arms out, social cues say hug is appropriate, therefore hug even though it’s uncomfortable. Second hug was looking at her face and seeing “oh that wasn’t enough, she’s still upset” more hug as a kind of I must fix my friend thing.
I really liked your viewpoint and I am very excited for season 2.
I saw Wednesday reciprocating the hug as recognizing that Enid needed it. Wednesday didnt fully engage. She was very aware that her hands were bloody.
Yes, I cried.
As an introvert, thank you for this! One of my best friends is a huge extrovert. It took her awhile to understand that my tolerance for socializing is limited, and has nothing to do with not wanting to be around her. If my "social battery" is low, and she wants to see me, we get together at one of our houses and do a movie marathon, rather than a bar or party.
that's a very sweet friend of yours
Treasure that friend
"Neurodivergent people aren't broken. They are just different" I love this! Because we are treated like we are broken
I like the sentiment, but my all-but-complete inability to maintain social relationships kinda makes me feel broken.
@@Touay. I totally understand because I deal with that often enough myself. But if the majority of people were like us then that probably wouldn't be a problem. They are Called Neuro-typical and we are called Neuro-Divergent. So their brains are typical or the norm and ours are divergent from that. But what is normal is based on what "most" people are. Most being more then 50%. If they were more like us and less like them then we would be neurotypical and they would be neurodivergent with no change in the behaviors. It's really simply a matter of numbers. There may be more that are "the norm" then not. But there are still quite a large number of us. Many masking all day long trying to appear "normal" and so we may not know it until you get close enough to them. We aren't broken just different. The point being that the key is to find people like you who will accept your differences. That's what I've had to do. Once you find your "tribe" so to speak, it's a whole lot easier to accept yourself for who you are.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference.
@@Brigsgirl22 Thanks. I really needed some encouragement today. ❤
@@Touay. Glad I could be of help. I've been where you are believe me and much appreciated when I was given encouragement from others. I hope you find your people and things get better for you ✨️
Kudos to Tim burton for letting her have feelings sometimes. People are sometimes scared to make Wndsday have any turmoil ever because they think it will take away her wndsday-ness.
Sadly that wasn't Tim Burton, Jenna Ortega insisted on it.
Thats all about wednesday, she'll challenge who you are and why you are. She gives so much shit, she cares to share, she bothers to point at things. She thinks she is an outsider because she doesnt show it in the same way.
I dated someone who was autistic, and his dad and sister were as well ( all clinically diagnosed as so ). They all all displayed these traits in different ways, but I loved being around them because of these differences. I wonder if I too might be on the spectrum because of certain behaviors and lack of understanding human interactions at times, but I've never been diagnosed. One of the most difficult things about being in the relationship though was that my boyfriend never saw his differences as beautiful and valuable. He knew multiple languages, had such a beautiful eye for macro insect photography and saw the world in such a lovely way, but he felt that feeling of being "other" being different more than he saw all his amazingness.
I am Autistic and I got my diagnosis when I was 28 years old. This video made me cry a little because it made me remember my school life and how completely different I was, without understanding what was going on with me. Now I work as a Gestalt Psychotherapist and one of my focus is to help people with Autism understand themselves. Thank you so much for your videos, I really enjoy all of them ☺💜
As someone with Aspergers IRL, I love this analysis and the messages in this video!Thank you for informing people about Autism and explaining what Autism is and how people can better interact with them.
Growing up, I had to deal with extreme lonliness from constant social rejection or social neglect from my Neurotypical peers. Whenever I tried to be myself around my Neurotypical peers, I always end up emotionally hurt, misunderstood, people misinterpret me all the time, people think that I'm arrogant or selfish when I'm actually not, or people are scared off by my tendency to fixate on my special interests in a more intense, passionate, analytical way than most people would. I always fantasized about having the kind of best friend who would always be there for you and always stand up for you no matter what, and it was like a fairytale, like something from a children's book about friendship that was real for my Neurotypical peers and my Neurotypical little sister whose positive social experiences sound like an absolute fantasy to me, but never for me. I still want to experience those positive social experiences and even find a husband whom I don't have to mask around, who I can express my full emotions around without them telling me that I'm doing something socially wrong somehow, and who will accept me for me.
But despite my negative social experiences brought on by my Aspergers, I am quite gifted when it comes to academics and art to the point where most people who meet me IRL consider me a genius. But when that genius comes at the expense of normal social experiences and a normal social life, sometimes I wonder if it is really worth it or if I would be happier if I was born Neurotypical.
I have had these same fantasies and have been considered a genius as well.
Seeking out other neurodivergents has been rewarding for me personally. I am either ADHD or AuADHD (leaning toward the second one) so I can be a bit bubbly at times for some people, but seeking out more NDs has made my kids feel less isolated for sure... And I am starting to feel it as well although it is hard to make friends as a mom. Good luck to you!
PS We can't choose our traits and happiness is kind of fleeting anyway... NTs have lots of things to be unhappy about too. You might like the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, about choosing what we will struggle with in life.
All of what you said hit close to home for me (I was diagnosed late last year with Asperger's) and it just damn hurts but everytime I make a friend I end up hoping that "they are the one"
As fellow aspie. This sounds like me. Bad at social cues but I get the best grades in class. I'll marry you!
"I wish I cared a little more."
That line resonates with me quite well.
I tend to enter situations - every situation I can - with the mindset of "Approach with apathy and you'll never be disappointed."
Although it helps with my anxiety and such, keeping me from panicking and worrying, I get chastised for not showing enough emotion. Thus, I've been dubbed "the quiet kid" at gatherings, among various other, harsher titles.
"I wish I cared a little more."
It's not melancholic. It's not self-pity. It's not making oneself be what others are. It's simply a statement. Not caring, though her and my norm, seems not to be the norm for others. It's difficult to operate as a knife among forks or fork among knives. The metaphor is interchangeable.
I forgot what my point was here, or of there even was one, but my words still stand.
I’m AuDHD, and just last night read a paper from 2022 showing that autistic people don’t necessarily have deficits in social communication, but that problems arise from interactions between people with mixed neurotypes (e.g., autistic vs. non-autistic), through the Double Empathy Problem. Essentially, it boils down to a mismatch in expectations and ability to code-switch or otherwise adapt to people with differing communication styles. In fact, in this study (and in the experience on myself and many others commenting on it), using the neurotypical deficit model, it was the neurotypicals in the study with the deficits in communication, not the autists, who got along with each other better than neurotypicals got along with each other in non-mixed situations. Because of the way we’re processing information so differently, we may struggle to pick up on or to express neurotypical social cues, but we’re usually able to adapt (because we have to in order to survive), whereas non autistic people are more likely to be weirded out by us immediately and never attempt to bridge that empathy gap. This has always been the key difference in my interactions with others, now that I think about it: whether or not the person I’m talking with vibes with me, it comes down to whether they judge me by their own expectations of me or adapt their expectations of me to fit me as I actually am, which determines the rapport and success of our interaction.
Side note: Wednesday’s reaction to the surprise party wasn’t as much a lack of understanding the social cues and as issue of rigidity and perseveration making the cues she definitely got an unwelcome distraction. She missed the clues before the reveal, but the reaction to the reveal was negative because she wasn’t prepared for the change in plans, and wasn’t ready to disengage from her task. I had a similarly bad reaction when my parents surprised me with a new car (pre-diagnosis) because in the moment, all I could see was the unexpected loss of my best Autobot friend of ten years, not the joy of the 17-year-newer model of my beloved Civic. I even made a joke as we first arrived that it had better not be for me because I’d never give up my buddy as we first arrived, because I was initially told it was for my dad, and (I thought) the idea of it being for me was hilariously ridiculous… when I saw my mom’s face, I realized it was a surprise for me, and then I basically had a mini meltdown/panic episode while I tried to process the loss, the gratitude, and the pain I was causing and unable to stop causing with every passing second. Even after explaining what was going on in my head years later, my neurotypical parents still can’t quite understand it.
I have an asperger's personality and thanks to this series, Wednesday Addams has become one of my favorite movie characters. I really relate to her. Mostly it's how she's really intelligent, but hides emotions a lot because she doesn't know what to do with them.
This! I never saw it this way... Not knowing what to do with all these emotions. So true. For me expressing some emotions would demand a theatrical skill - it is just not natural to me to react to some things like other people do.
I’m neurodivergent due to growing up disabled and learning to navigate life in a different way. I had moments where I really resonated with Wednesday, having the feeling of, “This is who I am. I’m not going to apologize for being myself.” And it felt empowering. Wednesday has her faults, but she’s also a good example of owning who you are.
In what way are you neurodivergent? What do you have?
I know I am neurodivergent and unofficially on the spectrum. People have always been odd to me. I remember being a kid on the playground trying to understand the strange customs and behaviors from my peers. At four years old, I told my mom I was worried about my career because I couldn't pick between being an author or an artist. I thought I was really good at masking, but my friends knew from the start.
I had this experience with one of my students. I was told ahead of time that he was on the spectrum, but it was as a "warning" to accept bad behavior. Luckily, I had prior experience because I have family, friends, and their kids who were at different levels.
This young man was very organized, always did everything the same way when he came to put his stuff down, and was exceptionally bright with great questions and conversation about the material. He was just very business-like. It was during Covid year, and we had to have an assignment daily, so I had one content day, then one notes day alternating. He hated the notes part and didn't want to do it because it's not part of his process. So he showed frustration the same way a gifted student does. He didn't see value in it. I explained each time that we had to turn in something daily for attendance and that it didn't have to be word-for-word long notes, maybe just bullet points for new things he learned. I did get buy-in, and that's the only "behavior" thing i noticed. But I can see where people would see that as defiance or talking back.
As I said. I was lucky. My nephew is severely autistic and my brother and sister-in-law were really good about learning how to help him and relate to him. The student's mom kept apologizing and saying, "I know he's a handfull," but I just reassured her that he was fine and that I liked him.
Would be nice if you analyze Enid next. Lots of people have read her as having ADHD. And folks who are AuDHD (like I suspect I am) have heavily identified with both Wednesday and Enid. Great video!
Wonderful video on autism. Thank you, for bringing it more to light. Just one thing I’ll mention that I’ve come across many therapists believing is that autistic people lack empathy. Most often that is not the case. In fact, we are extremely sensitive and affected by other peoples pain. It’s overwhelming and we don’t know how to express it. Which is where the misconception comes from. And it’s hurtful to hear and be misunderstood in that way…especially from professionals.
Once again thank you for your videos. I always enjoy them 😊
Agreed! My son has ASD and he is empathetic but had to be taught how emotions play out on the face. When very young he would laugh so hard when another kid got hurt and cried... his reason though was because he honestly thought the kid was making a weird face to be funny and had a cool trick of making their eyes water. Once he learned what it meant, he knew laughing at that situtaion was not appropriate so he adjusted.
I think if more NTs realized how much effort and thought goes into NDs trying to do things "our way," they would try meeting NTs in the middle more. And that's where NTs can lack empathy for NDs. I'm so sorry therapists have been under that impression of ASDs lacking empathy! Being misunderstood and underestimated like that -by a professional in particular- is probably so incredibly frustrating as well as hurtful. All piled on top of you trying to process the other person's emotions. That's a lot.
Definitely! Most of us are hyper empathetic, even.
I am on the spectrum. In Wednesday's interaction with Thornhill (as well as some others) I can't quite tell whether she is trying to connect or to antagonise. She would probably recognise that her blunt approach can alienate others and cause fear and discomfort even if she can't always tell which emotion she provoked specifically.
I also feel like in real life, the social pressure to conform, to twist yourself to the expectations of others can help create a facsimile of social social skills even though it' more like applying the rules from a code you don't understand. Wednesday's detachment is (from my experience) unusual and typically Addams.
And well being in a family that supports AND are divergent themselves and expect oddness... That seems to work out similarly in real life. Supported autistics in autistic and ND families seem to thrive compared to their peers who have to mask/struggle in their personal AND public lives.
my best friend is autistic, & this helped me understand so much. i am definitely the "soft & sensitive" one in the relationship & never understood how/why she wasn't. thank you for this!! 💚
I’m autistic and would like to offer a gentle correction. Firstly, thank you for continuing to promote the message of "different, not broken" when it comes to autistic and otherwise neurodivergent people. It's clear that you're passionate about helping neurotypical people better understand and engage with their neurodiverse peers. That said, please consider moving away from language that suggests autistic people lack empathy/emotions/intuition, etc. (examples in this video include 2:36, 7:10, 11:18, though it also happened in CT's Lilo & Stitch episode). This contradicts your core message by measuring autistic people against a neurotypical baseline, which is common in the deficit model of disability.
In reality, we are often deeply (sometimes excessively) emotional and empathetic. We just experience and express it differently than most neurotypical people have learned to recognize. For a long time autistic people have been described as lacking "theory of mind," but neurotypical people struggle just as much to understand our internal worlds. As you hint at around 9:30, it's not a one-way deficit - it's two people being on such different wavelengths that neither one intuitively understands what the other is trying to express.
As someone who has been plagued by my autism my entire life, to me the most unrealistic part of this entire series wasn't the monsters, it was that people still tried to connect with Wednesday, that they didn't give up on her and tried to understand and give her a place amongst them.. that simply doesn't happen in real life sadly. Those of us who are different are outcasts, ghosts, or even subject for mockery
Thank you for this careful, thoughtful analysis. Love your videos!
Just a little note: Some people with ASD do show emotion. It's not a mandatory symptom. The way they show it is likely to still be somewhat atypical (some are quite good at masking, though).
As a neurodivergent person, I deeply appreciate this video for the validation and kindness shown toward neurodivergent folks.
I'm gifted/HSP/whatever one might wanna call everything-is-intense-and-I'm-smart-in-a-way-that-is-hard (like, finished college at age 17 and also have a lot of behaviors and thought patterns that are in a Venn diagram with ADHD and ASD). Most of my close friends are also neurodivergent and/or come from other countries, and I find that those folks share the feeling of being "other" and not completely getting social cues as expected. I do observe that often people think neurodivergent folks are antisocial, but in truth a lot of us are highly social and empathetic but also don't react the same way neurotypical folks do in any given situation. I think in general a lot of neurodivergent people I know are actually more thoughtful, kind, patient, and loving than neurotypical people because we know what it is like to be bullied and outcast.
Hi! This is a great video and I love the examination of people with autism in the Wednesday series. Here are just a couple of small notes on language regarding neurodivergence that might help everyone!
*We usually try to use person-first language, ie: instead of saying someone is autistic we say “a person with autism”.
*”Normal” is a word we tend to steer away from, instead saying things like “neurotypical”. The word “normal” is really loaded in the neurodiverse community.
*There’s a common misconception that folks with autism lack emotion or empathy, but very often nothing could be further from the truth. We just don’t always connect emotionally or express emotion in a neurotypical way.
This video is a great examination of how people who are neurodiverse sometimes struggle to interact with their friends and peers, and love the videos here at Mended Light in general!
As a fellow autistic person, I can definitely agree with the last point about emotions but as for the first two I don’t really care if someone says I’m not normal because I know I never will be and I don’t want to be. Some people don’t like the word normal but I think rather than trying to erase it from our language, we should focus on removing the negative stigma around not being normal. Also ‘person with autism’ means the same thing as autistic. Autistic is just quicker. I find when people say person with autism it seems to imply they think I shouldn’t want to be called autistic as if being autistic is different from being a person.
Just my personal views on the matter, no obligation to agree of course. :)
as someone with ADHD and ASD, i 100% agree with all of this!! ^^^
i also wanted to add that some autistic people are more hyperempathetic (like me!), some are hypoempathetic or have no empathy at all, some are hyperempathetic towards animals/inanimate objects/etc but not people or vice versa, etc - it's a very diverse thing. i've seen some people headcanon Enid as hyperempathetic autistic and Wednesday as hypoempathetic autistic and i can definitely see it ^__^
@@fluffyvoid2619 I agree with you. I'm not diagnosed autistic (my director believes I'm high functioning, I just haven't bothered getting a diagnosis yet) but I do have a physical disability diagnosed and I prefer being called a disabled person over a person with a disability. I see no reason to avoid being called what I am.
*I prefer autistic. For me autism is not a condition, it's just a part of my identity. I am autistic, just as I am a nerd, a software developer and polyamorous.
Of course this labeling is pretty personal, but most autistic people I know rather use autist or autistic than person with autism. Person with autism feels belittling and overcomplicated to me.
*Normal vs neurotypical or allistic is a good point. Normal emphasizes how we are different from allistic people in a dehumanizing way rather than a descriptive way.
*So true, it's hard sometimes. I can be totally overwhelmed by emotion and just not know what to do with it. When my partner tries to help me by asking how I feel I'm like: I don't know? I feel a lot. Mostly BLAAGH and a little of BLBLBLrrr, I know it doesn't make sense but I don't know what I feel, just that it's a lot XD apparently that's called alexithymia, which is common for autistic people.
There is debate whether to use "person with autism" or "autistic person". As an autistic person, I generally prefer "autistic person" but it simply depends on individual preference.
This was a helpful breakdown and very relatable. I haven’t seen the show but I’ve seen the “I’ve really tried…” clip of Wednesday & her friend several times. Always makes me tear up and reminds me of a high school friendship that fell apart, and how it may have felt through her eyes. (Me being more like Wednesday) Fabulous acting, and fabulous analysis. Ty as always.
When trying to explain my neurodivergence to others (high functioning spectrum) I compare it to emotional/social dyslexia. It isn't that I do not feel emotions, I just have trouble recognizing them, both my own as well as those of others.
This hits hard, a lot I needed to hear. I am hearing impaired and visually dependent (despite visually impaired/ legally blind). This seems to mean that I can be considered neurodivergent. There’s a lot I had to learn socially growing up. I wanted social interaction and to feel normal as much as possible but evidently always hung on the fringe or forever outcast. Still learning, in that way but also how to stand my ground and patiently show others or remind them that I can’t always be expected to carry the weight of normal people expectations. My workload, due to neurodivergency and disability, is already higher than average normal persons. I want to be normal, to do what normal people can, and some things I can but need compassion when I can’t.
Just show someone compassion/kindness.
Thats all we need.
The hugging scene at the end of the episode always gets me emotional.
As someone who's ND (ADHD, plus there's been some talk about looking into Aspergers as a possibility) this show was....a gut punch but in a good way. I basically used the show to explain some of my quirks to my partner. Though I tend to be better at masking than Wednesday is (But I compare it to AI art, it's not perfect and there's always something a bit off) and it kinda helped him understand where I'm coming from on a lot of things. That it's not a lack of caring. I care...I just don't show it like "normal" people do. But I do show it.
I like the AI art analogy, lol. It's so accurate😅
I'll be using this comparison too. I've used the original Spock and the newest series Spock as well. The scenes that Ethan Peck's Spock has with his fiancée have been a source of treasure. They feel deeply and show it, although differently.
I would love to see more vids about psychopathy. As we know by now, psychopaths do not NEED to be evil. It can be yet another useful neurodivergent type. Our communities thrived if we had someone with the warrior gene on our team, someone with no hesitance to kill enemies without guilt, someone who actually craved the excitement of conflict and fights and getting even and revenge. In other words, a psychopath. But therapists and the public are so hesitant to diagnose it. No-one wants to say someone is a psychopath, no-one wants to hear it about themselves or their loved ones. Yet, the percentage psychopaths and ASS-people are the same- both about 2%.
Long story short, I'd think Wednesday is written as neurodivergent- but ASPD.
An interesting development is that on Reddit and Quora, more and more people self identify as ASPD. An example is Athena Walker. Maybe they are posturing. But on the other hand, maybe they are the real deal and they are having their own emancipation moment. They say: "As long as I don't break the law, why shouldn't I be open about what I am? Some people are scared off, but plenty of people are drawn to a self described ASPD." Greetings to Jon from another ADD therapist 😊
Wednesday broke and healed my heart at the same time, as an autistic person that still longing and working on my late diagnoses.
It was difficult to see her struggles, things that i´ve understood and past throug, but it was harder to see how people could make room for her being and getting better on human connection with love and it wasn´t a option for most of my life.
The hardest part, on my perspective, on being autistic (with or without diagnoses): people neuronormative respecting theirs needs and at the same time respecting yours, even without understanding it too much.
People are often easy to judge and misjudge others.
i’ve lost the vast majority of my close friends recently because of a lot of what wednesday went through and what you described. i hurt people without realizing it and said things that were taken completely differently than i meant, or they couldn’t understand me and expected me to be different, called me gullible or heartless or that i was lying to them, and it’s caused me a lot of pain and loneliness. this video was exactly what i needed to see. thanks jono.
"...not broken, just different". You have no idea how much I needed to hear that. Thank you!
Well... I didn't expect to end up in the rabbit hole of questioning my neurotype today, but here I am 2 hours after watching this video buried in tabs of articles on autism. I'm now reanalyzing my entire life through a different lens because the more I look, the more I find that parts which never made sense before are kind of falling into place. If this is anything like my past identity explorations, I'll be in label limbo for months, but many thanks to the video and commenters for making me think about this. Even if it's an invalid connection, I'm learning a lot about myself in the process.
"label limbo" is a good way of putting it. I can relate.
Thank you for clarifying that Neurodivergent is not a synonym for autistic but simply a type of it. I have ADHD and CP which is a neurodivergent movement disorder.
You almost got me when you said trying to conform would be a betrayal to ourselves. I've been diag' as neurodivergent a couple of months ago. My whole life had been a succession of people telling me I should show more emotions, show more interest to the people around me or that I'm weird in the way I think/act/talk. Thank you for saying we're not broken because we are neurodivergents!
Excellent Episode, thank you for that Jonno! I am on the autism spectrum (diagnosed recently at age 37) and it is really hard. Just being around people: I feel like in a play and I'm the only one who didn't get the script and never nowing what is going to happen next.
Trying to recover from family and teachers not knowing or understanding what is going on. Always labled as shy, socially awkward and lazy, always underperforming and not meeting the mark while doing my best. My diagnosis was a huge relief, but on the outside I mask just well enough that people tend to forget that i have limitations and instead of an adjustment in expectations, I am still supposed to be "more normal" which is soul crushing. Even though they claim to understand my diagnosis.
I still feel nobody can see who I really am and I don't even know who I am because of having spent all my life so far trying to be who I was expected to be and failing.
But who really knows who they are I guess, talking to people about that, the issue is downplayed and it's said that everybody feels that way, or so I am told.
Also I feel emotions extremely deeply and I care about people and not fitting in or offending/hurting others on accident, but it doesn't show on the outside, so it is easy to assume that I don't care. Easy to be misread/misunderstood.
Animals are the only safe connections in my life.
Yeah I hate the whole, "Everybody is a little autistic or ADHD sometimes."
Good for you, buddy. I'm a lot like that ALL the time! Like they think that since they've occasionally experienced something similar once or twice that ADHD isn't real or that "You're no more Autistic than the rest of us." Like, I don't need to be "more" autistic to satisfy some NT's expectations of me.
As an autistic person who grew up in the theater, I feel everything you said❤
Something I'd like clarification (and maybe a whole educational video) on: what exactly makes someone neurodivergent vs "different"? Because sure, people with autism, ADHD etc. think and see the world differently, but technically speaking EVERYONE does. When does someone's unique perspective and way of processing things make them neurodivergent? How deviant from the "norm" does someone have to be before they're no longer just "unique," "weird" or "eccentric"? How is the "norm" established in the first place? How do we determine whether someone has a form of neurodivergence or simply shares similar traits? What types of psychological conditions are considered forms of neurodivergence, and why? Are there disagreements about what things should or should not be in that category?
Really appreciated what was said in this video. I can be split down the middle - I can either come across very monotonous and uncaring or care so much and get told I'm too emotional. It's incredibly difficult to find where on that line I'm expected to be with every single individual relationship.
I'm on the autism spectrum and I just want to thank your for this content; expressing that we bring value to the table and that we're worth accommodating. So much other content is focused on our deficits and masking capabilities and what autistic people are expected to do for the comfort of others, but to be honest, just presenting as "human" consumes soooo much bandwidth that it's exhausting and personally, I have to withdraw to recover from the depletion.
Watching this video and keeping in mind the conversation Wednesday had with Morticia when she was first being enrolled into the academy, where she says something and Morticia says in response "Finally a kind word for your mother" made it click in my head exactly how much it is that Morticia understands Wednesday and how her brain works.
As someone who has both ADHD & autism, I am very pleased with how many representations of ADHD/autistic people in movies & tv we are seeing lately.
Wednesday, Evelyn from EEAAO, Katie & Aaron from The Mitchell’s vs. the Machines, etc.
Very encouraging to see people like me on the screen being super-awesome and not being cast as some kind of burden to the people around them.
I kinda got the vibe from how she handled her “emotions” as it is pretty similar to how I handle mine(not healthy btw). She builds up her walls all while pretending she would rather be alone, when in all reality she really cares.
I have asperger's and have all the associated social struggles. I really appreciate the way you model compassion and empathy, it helps me relate to NT people in a way they can more easily understand without making me feel like I'm completely faking it
As an autistic person I appreciate the way you describe neurodivergence. Understanding is what is needed most. Thank you for spreading awareness.
I think that a lot of what I see, at least in the experiences of my friends and I and our kids... Is that seeing the various levels of neurodivergence is also important.
Like, my daughter with an ADHD diagnosis and her cousin who is pretty severely autistic from a genetic microdeletion. And then remembering how hard it has been to realize the "oh hey, maybe the reason I always felt and was treated by my family as explicitly different (eg. I literally just told my partners I need a flow chart for all the subtext in a 'normal' conversation with my folks 😂😅) is because I AM wired different and that is ok" ... Like finally realizing I am neurospicy and learning what flavors as an adult is helping me be a better parent and a better me.
So yes, Wednesday might be coded autistic, and I wouldn't be surprised, but even that diagnosis we need to be aware is on a spectrum, as well as that a lot of things we see as symptoms for things are more ... Studied in guys. Like we all know a male heart attacks symptoms, but women's can be identical to panic attacks and only differentiated by the EKG and blood tests.
I’m going to be honest- I am neurodivergent and I struggle so heavily with trying to get people- neurodivergent or otherwise, just anyone who isn’t similar “enough” to me- to conform to my standard of “being.” This channel is really helping me to realize the true differences between people and also that other people struggle with this too. Hearing this perspective is really helpful! I love this channel now, even more than Cinema Therapy (which is saying a lot!)
Wednesday in her previous versions was super smart, perceptive like a psychic, very logical and somehow like an adult. She was like super human child earlier.
It's interesting because I have two kids with ASD (both high-functioning and neither is a teenager yet) so I'm usually pretty receptive to signs of ASD in others yet it hadn't occurred to me with Wednesday. Maybe it's because I went into it with expectations of her unusual behavior and viewed it as normal for her.
I viewed her pushing people away and lack of connection as an intentional rejection of friendship because she felt friends were more of a liability in her endeavors and didn't see the benefit of it, or possibly as a trauma response from her childhood where she had friends but her unusual tastes caused them to reject her and she developed her uncaring nature as a means of protection. I felt that the scene with Bianca was showing that she was aware of social cues but that she had actively avoided responding to them for so long it became second nature and it was hard for her to overcome that even though she was starting to want to develop friendships. The hug at the end was basically her finally relenting and accepting that there was a positive aspect to friendship and forcing herself to make that effort to open up again.
Thank you for your astute observations, Jono! Keep up the good work!
This is where I struggle… I have BP, ADHD, and autism, and I don’t identify with so many things that are “coded” as autistic. I feel emotions strongly, I have a very deep empathy and sense of justice… I just don’t always know how to communicate that. I’m blunt, I’m honest, and I want to get to the root of the issue, but I’m not unfeeling.
I’ve learned to mask, to ask the right questions, to keep a conversation going, to make people comfortable… but when I get nothing back I get stuck. If they’re not doing the thing, I have nothing to go off of, and I’m completely lost. I’ve had to start reminding myself that I’m able to mask because I’ve had to… and some neurotypical people are just bad at conversation lol.
I think the focus on direct speech as an autistic trait is a case of being biased by American culture. Dutch and Nordics would mostly consider a lack of superficiality as a way to show that you already believe there is a connection.
"I wish I cared a little more." Wow, the number times I've thought that but I can't force my true feelings.
PLEASE make a longer video talking about autism. You explain it so well, and it would be really interesting.
Autistic here *waves* since I was a kid I always thought I couldn’t be autistic cause I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum where I feel waaay too much than nothing really and I want so desperately to make connections it comes off like wow, and I was abused and conditioned to understand basic social ques or else; so now in my 30’s and my last therapist and I worked out I’m the way I am cause all these reasons AND autistic. I switched to a specialized therapist for autistic individuals who experienced a lot of trauma in the name of conforming and it was very eye opening. Being autistic isn’t the same for everyone and having shows like this display autistic individuals even a little is helpful. I hope that the mass media companies can do some research and one day be able to show a bit more of the whole spectrum, so that little kids and their parents can realize ohh maybe our child is just a bit different, instead of forcing them to conform “for their saftey”
2:24 it took me years to realise you're actually expected to ask something back. So many conversations have died at my doorstep...
"Neurodivergent People are not Broken, they are just different"... THANK YOU ! This needs to be repeated until it is aknowleged by everyone !
I am neurodivergent but I really like hugs, since I usually don't understand verbal queus, the non verbal parts of relationships are easier for me to relate to
I have ADHD and a lot of my life is people tellme that I’m obnoxious and annoying or abrasive for things I can’t control. Growing it was asking rude and uncomfortable questions and not understanding why i was being disciplined or why it’s not a question i should ask. Or getting yelled for crying while be scolded for something. They would accuse me of trying to get sympathy when in reality it was uncontrollable guilt
When the teacher said the thing about "being in both worlds", I feel like I personally relate to that due to having ADHD. Part of me doesn't fit in with more neurotypical people because they don't understand why I can present so normal and capable, but still somehow fall short of expectations, and the other part of me just fully doesn't belong with other neurodivergent people either because I feel like I am too normal or not as bad off as they might be so I don't feel like I deserve to receive the care I know that they need. It's as if I am an outsider to both worlds. Like someone who is a jack of all trades, but a master to none.
Edit: I forgot to mention I haven't watched this series by the way so I have no other context than this video.
I showed this video to my autistic partner, she thought the message of this is so good for embracing difference, but some of the statements about autism are a bit outdated now for example not being able to empathise Great video, hopefully keeps the conversation alive and progressing.
As someone recently diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum at age 57 (the diagnosis previously known as Aspergers), I really appreciate your appreciation of all types of people with their own unique gifts.
Of course, there are downsides as well. I work on an IT helpdesk with emails, instant messages, call and chats going on at the same time (yes, that includes a chat and a call at the same time), and I am driven away from people by it just to avoid the over stimuli.
You are not seeing emotions, but they are there. Autism is like transmitting and receiving on black and white, or sometimes in radio. When others are full color 4k. It's easy to dismiss as "lack of emotions" but everything is still there, just being transmitted in a way that requires a bit more engagement to see for what it is.
I'm Neurodivergent. I love all the Wednesday characters/depictions. I'm not a doctor or psychologist or psychiatrist...but I think it's risky to ponder whether anyone, let alone a fictional character is Neurodivergent/has ASD/Is Autistic/on the spectrum...especially if it's not been asked or outright stated by the person (in real life)/or the creators (in fiction).
I think automatically attaching a diagnosis to a person/character will make it so that people who aren't Neurodivergent but are maybe different in other ways feel disconnected from that character.
Also I know and love plenty of people who are "normies" or not Neurodivergent that often feel flat or are flat or chilly in personality, that don't desire to engage in popular social construct. This isn't a disability or a defect. It's just them. We need to be able to recognize that not all people who have a different social orientation are on the spectrum. Not that anything is wrong with that. What I'm saying is that we need to stop addressing that difference as a socialization.
Again, I am Neurodivergent and I do understand what it's like to be an outsider. I am more sensitive though I'd say (not all Neurodivergents are flat) but I understand what it's like to want to be different...and to feel and think of other things in a more "traditional" way. But I also understand that there are people out there that are simply different without a diagnosis.
the thing about how wednesday navigates conversations differently completely went over my head. i just thought it was normal and the weird thing was just her dry humor... most of my friends are neurodivergent and we have great conversations like that😭
at work i always have to remind myself to ask questions because when they ask "what are you doing this weekend?" i recognize that they expect me to ask the question back way too late. they probably only asked because they wanted to tell me what their plans are, not because they care about mine. the mental gymnastics to keep the conversation going is exhausting.
neurotypicals want to be invited to share but around neurodivergent people the fact that we are having a conversation is invitation enough. at least that's what it feels like to me.
i found the best i can do with my uhm not so great social skills is listen very carefully. even if my questions or lack of questions might not always be appreciated, the fact that i will always listen is. we all want to be heard.
I connect with Wednesday and loved watching the series. I am not on the spectrum, but I am an introvert and I have lived outside a typical box my whole life. At times I can be extroverted, but the distance that Wednesday keeps is something that I am very familiar with and comfortable with. I have often recognized that I probably should have asked questions about someone after the fact, but I simply didn't think about it at the time. I am not shy, but the gap between what feels comfortable to me and what others expect of my behavior can be quite large. The friends that I have kept have learned that I may not be present daily, weekly, monthly, but I will always be there when they need me. The "social niceties" that are difficult for Wednesday have always been difficult for me as well.
I didnt talk till i was 5, was always different to others, struggled to talk to others, make friends etc. It wasnt till i met my husband and he was telling my mother that he had aspergers that she told me that a teacher told her when i was EIGHT that i may have it and to get me tested. I have lived my whole life in the dark thinking something was wrong with me all because my mother didnt want to acknowledge that i was different and people may think less of her for having a neurodivergent child
I am autistic and this was exactly what I needed to see to day. Thank you
Was late diagnosed at 48 and seeking the assessment was one of the best decisions I ever made.
It explained so much about my life and how I interact with people and how I always found it so hard to relate and make/keep friends.
I thought, for the longest time that there was something wrong with me, that I was broken somehow or simply that I was an idiot with no social skills.
But that diagnosis was a huge weight being lifted and I allowed myself to begin to relax, embrace my weirdness and be a lot less hard on myself.
Thank you nurodivergent people are not broken we are different. Another thing we do have empathy it is just different than yours. All you have to do to see this is change the way you look at things and the things you look at will change just like Wayne Dyer said.
Totally agree! To me, when people expressed their empathy as an emotion, I thought they were being selfish. In my mind, that emotion just took focus and energy away from who/what their empathy was directed at. In my (probable) ASD mind, if you really cared, you’d get yourself under control and help! 🤦♀️😂 I’m better at understanding the value of that type of empathy now, and great good that can come from it, but non-emotional empathy is also valuable. It’s the type of empathy that allows you to rush to physically help people during their most traumatic moments and be able to clear-headedly meet their needs in the face of their pain and blood and brokenness, and continue to do so over time without having to become too cynical. @SotBU, I’m not sure how your empathy presents, but I have no doubt that you being you brings value to this world.😀
I appreciate this on so many levels. Especially the reminder that "it is simply a different way of being." Growing up in a neurotypical world, there is this constant internal struggle between allowing my children to just be EXACTLY who they were created to be, and that conditioned belief that we have to "do better, be better" that I grew up with. I am so grateful this world is starting to see the value of differences. The issue now is learning to correct years of conditioned behaviors and beliefs that told us had no value until we assimilated and trying to stay in the middle. Thank you again
I am autistic, only realized that recently (like 2 years ago, I am 25). I always knew I was weird and bringing cringe vibe everywhere amongst people, I just became very scared of any human contact. Now I'm finally kinda getting the rules of the social game that everyone's involved in. I am less scared, partly because of the realisation of my autism. Thank you for covering this topic. ❤️
I'm undiagnosed, but this is just confirming my suspicions more and more. Wednesday was always my favorite of the Addams Family because I could relate to her. I didn't even realize that asking straightforward, factual questions could be considered a lack of empathy. Because if I didn't care, I wouldn't respond at all. You can't solve a problem by saying, "Oh, that sucks." You have to consider the options and the resources at your disposal, like the amulet in the clip. (I haven't seen this show, so I don't know the full context of the scene, but that's what I gathered from what was shown.)
I am AuDHD (autistic and ADHD) and both of my kids are autistic. I absolutely love everything about this video! It is exactly on point! Every autistic person needs to hear the validations that are given by this therapist. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!
Something that should be expounded on is the way autistic people show emotions. We may not emote our feelings externally, but we definitely have them internally. (They just might be more intellectualized rather than deeply experienced.) For me, when I emote my feelings I sometimes (not all the time) feel like I am acting on a stage. It is like classic Greek theatre and putting on a happy or sad mask so that the audience can see what I am experiencing. (Like when Christina Ricci’s Wednesday Addams smiles for the camp counselors in Addam’s Family Values. She chooses to smile, because it is expected of her and she doesn’t want to be isolated anymore.) This process is exhausting and why I can “socialize” with people who aren’t close to me for much shorter periods of time than would be expected. This is why small talk with strangers can be excruciating for Autistic people. It’s exhausting constantly having to intentionally emote when it doesn’t come naturally, and is another reason why autistic people tend to have just a couple very close friends, who they don’t have to mask for. These friends understand and won’t judge the autistic person for lack of visual emotions.
I have ADHD, not autism, but I relate to Wednesday. My mind goes, "what are the facts? how can I use the facts to find a solution? I need to find a solution to help this person" instead of "oh sorry that sounds hard". I'm like a hybrid of Enid and Wednesday. Wednesday's approach to the world, Enid's focus on attending to the needs of others. The end result confuses people. I don't jump to empathizing but if you mention you need something I will get it for you unasked for. I will show up at your door with the supplies needed to fix your bathroom tiles. I will not say the correct supportive friend things. I don't dislike you or feel obligated to help, I'm *trying* to help, I want to, I like you, I would not be here with the cleaning supplies to get your dorm room done by the time you need to check out if I didn't. But I never come across as caring. I'm doing something incorrectly. I don't know what. I guess the point of Wednesday and Enid is to just keep trying and scoot yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone and see what you can learn by doing so.
I really like that you point out the difference in showing how Enid shows caring for a loved one vs how Wednesday shows it (by helping Enid get a date etc.) I recognise this in my parenting a lot. I sometimes feel like a failure when I see my husband or other parents be so empathetic and lovely with the kids, while I am more focused on the factual stuff of raising the kids, guiding them to become adults etc. I just thought it was one of my flaws, that I was unable to love my kids the way neurotypicals love and care. But it's not that, I love them to pieces and I now realise I just show my affection differently, like Wednesday.
I don't think there's a single show I'd love to see you cover more than "The Last Of Us". There is sooooo much in every episode for you to cover, you'll love it.
I haven't seen this show at this point, but I'm autistic so I decided to watch your video. And I was crying throughout the whole thing. Even as an autistic person who has supportive friends and family, hearing your compassionate take on it was very helpful. It's easy even still to fall back into feeling like something's wrong with me, and hearing you, a stranger, validate my differences as being ok, was somehow very moving.
I force myself to unmask to the kids at my church (I'm a teacher) about my neurodivergent struggles.
I am always honored, surprised, and happy with how open and accepting they are. I am the most immature, disorganized, and strange Sunday school teacher, and they like me in spite of it.
I love those kids so much. But none more than my ADHD son. He is a dream come true.
Not broken, just different. Thank you. I feel like the terms people use talking about us are always geared as us being problems to be fixed, when in reality we try to fit in, but society refuses to make room for us to do so. We just cant reach the point they want us at. Move the goalpost closer and understand us the way we have to understand you
Again, thank you.
I was 32 when I was diagnosed. Relationships were always hard. I've decided that I really only feel comfortable socializing with select few people. I'm bad at romantic relationships.
I wonder if Wednesday also has "the rules". Every time I interact with someone, I start cataloging. What do they respond to, what do they like to talk about, how do they socialize. Rules get made to try and fit in better. I remember everyone from the first encounter. I can recall quotes from conversations from 30+ years ago. This can be a problem though, because lying and insenerity also get cataloged. "That's not what you said when..." etc.
I tend to relate best to children and animals, so I rescue animals and teach children. I don't like spending too much time with other adults socially as I find it much too stressful to constantly shift to meet expectations.
My son is on the autistic spectrum and it is nice that not only were we able to live in the same place while he was growing up, but the kids he grew up with accepted him as he was. I once apologized for something odd he did and I was told not to worry about it, "That's just Benny." 😊
Also, watching this video helped me realize that I am also on the autism spectrum, but it isn't as obvious as I was always quiet growing up and I am a people watcher. That combination allowed me to learn social cues from watching people and actors in movies. People just assumed I was a bookworm. I did read any and all books I could get my hands on, so I was one, but it also got me out of a lot of social interactions that might have otherwise overwhelmed me. I do like it when people are politely blunt as I don't pick up on tactful hints. I am much better at picking up subtle jokes after being married to a witty jokester. 😏Years of practice help. But I still struggle with subtle social cues. I sometime unconsciously pick up on them, but don't always know what to do with the hints my brain gives me.