Codependents and Narcissists: Wooden Puppets and Cruel Puppetmasters

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  • Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
  • Pinocchio and Geppetto: the fantasy to not be puppet is a death wish, to not be himself (because has no self). Without the puppetmaster, when he is gone, there is no puppet, only death.
    Object constancy is existential and essential, but in cluster personality disorders and in codependency, the problem is an external locus of existence, not merely of control. There is an outsourcing sense of being, not only self-worth.
    Pinocchio teaches us that the only way to become human is via fantasy (lying).
    Survival is predicated on becoming the puppetmaster by becoming NPD/BPD:
    1. Emulating the abuser
    2. Becoming (merger or fusion) the abuser
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 60

  • @Enfpmom
    @Enfpmom 4 роки тому +130

    Unfortunately codependency was meant to be temporary not permanent. We had no choice but to keep an external locus of control and scan the abuser and give him what he wanted so we won’t be abandoned. Sad

  • @angelakieler6447
    @angelakieler6447 3 роки тому +42

    I have gotten more understanding of my ex narc husband by listening to your videos than being in therapy. Thank you for providing all of us with your expertise.
    Please don’t ever stop making these videos, you are providing a very needed public service.

  • @debbiemillerwalsh2085
    @debbiemillerwalsh2085 4 роки тому +74

    Sam I was raised by narc parents. But I was a fighter. I fought against it since I was 8. I didn’t not accept the abuse but I did end up internalizing the hurtful remarks and had the co dependency most of my life. But I knew something was wrong from a very early age to my advantage I hung out with a family that didn’t act like my parents and spent as much time with them. It was my normalcy thank you for what you do💜

    • @saraaaa1986
      @saraaaa1986 4 роки тому +16

      I feel for you deeply, I had almost the same child hood as yours except I had no one and no where else to go but kept fighting, untill I married a narcissist and I just gave up, and just started to figure out what was going on all along now

    • @tatrofamily1757
      @tatrofamily1757 4 роки тому +12

      Me too. My mother used to call me her little clone. I wasn’t allowed to choose my own clothes, decide how I got my hair cut or even go to the doctor. Her rule was “Don’t ever ask me for anything. The answer will always be no.”

    • @debbiemillerwalsh2085
      @debbiemillerwalsh2085 4 роки тому +6

      Sara Abdalla I married a narcissist as well ugh we are survivors

    • @saraaaa1986
      @saraaaa1986 4 роки тому +1

      @@debbiemillerwalsh2085 I'm still married to him, so I don't call myself a survivor yet

    • @sll110
      @sll110 4 роки тому +3

      my mom.is truly evil. too

  • @claudiavictoria3929
    @claudiavictoria3929 4 роки тому +23

    I've always seen Pinocchio as a perfect example of learning through pain, being the pain itself vital. I've never much considered the role of Geppetto. Thank you for the fresh perspective.

  • @vicky35442
    @vicky35442 2 роки тому +7

    Wow, I've never thought of Pinocchio this way. Eerie as every fairly tale is. Brilliant!

  • @miriambarco8832
    @miriambarco8832 2 роки тому +4

    Thank u for that insight. I had to listen more than once... but I get it.

  • @bleuneptune
    @bleuneptune 4 роки тому +10

    I will never see the story of Pinocchio the same.. 😢

  • @marktalksmoney1956
    @marktalksmoney1956 4 роки тому +30

    Ahhh yes the never ending story.
    Every few months she will stop following the court order and withold the children. I've learned not to panic over the years. And just call my lawyer.

  • @runwiththewind3281
    @runwiththewind3281 3 роки тому +2

    Thank you Professor Vaknin

  • @treesarose97
    @treesarose97 4 роки тому +56

    When a little child she used to see me as a “stupid marionette” as she later wrote. But actually she felt like a marionette inside, empty and wooden. She accepted a life of narcissistic abuse, feeling she had no choice, but also abused and neglected. She literally functioned as a marionette. She never really wanted to be a mother but it was the so called right thing to do, in the name of Jesus. The idea of the shared psychotic disorder seems to fit my parents type of relationship. I ran away from home at 14 and had myself put in foster care to escape and to become real. Can you do a part 2 and talk about what happened to Pinocchio in the belly of the well?

    • @debbiemillerwalsh2085
      @debbiemillerwalsh2085 4 роки тому +6

      Teresa Rose wow. They are awful parents. We’ve all suffered at the hands of a disordered person with no idea who they were themselves unless they went for help

  • @Canaday291
    @Canaday291 4 роки тому +10

    My malignant npd alcoholic ex husband has abused infected and corrupted my children beyond recognition to become shells of the empathetic kind hearted life loving sociable humans they used to be

  • @corinne2721
    @corinne2721 4 роки тому +16

    ...at about 23:00 you said something about people not being able to reach in. I have a invisible wall I cannot reach though. ...like I'm in a bubble... It's like I can watch the whole world in Techno Color...but, I can never play....the nerve impulses to do anything...travel to my elbow, and almost with physical pain...just stop, completely. ...but I can think endlessly all day until I'm so fatigued, I have to go to sleep. I'm in my body backwards, I'm on disability, n I hate everything about me...I want to be a normal person, my lack of ambition is just so stupid to me... Any ideas on what the hell happened to me...I know my mom always told me when I was young...I would never amount to anything, I was a looser...Once when my younger sister came home from going out with friends...she asked my mom something(I couldn't hear what it was)...my mom said NO...my sister asked why, n my mom said...because I don't want you turning out like"her" meaning me. That's the way I get treated...since birth, sorry for going on...it's just so stupid.

  • @ConnieGeldreich22
    @ConnieGeldreich22 4 роки тому +34

    I don't like the word codependent. That sounds more like two people who stay together because of the kids. It's trauma bonding in my mind. Your not staying because you want to, you have been terrorized into believing you just can't exist without the creature. Then one day you realize you've been existing just fine, because you have handed over everything you had, bent over backwards to please the evil and if you hadn't done that you would have been just fine on your own. Not to mention, the whole time you were essentially alone anyway. You ate alone, slept alone, cried alone and you walked alone. So the creature was just a ghost long before he actually became one and you only stayed because he convinced you that without him you couldn't fry an egg! If you're hanging on for money, that's long hidden and will always be out of your reach even if it's yours. That's the real trauma bond, the money he dangles in front of you to make you dance like Pinocchio! If you think you'll end up a millionaire, actually your more likely to end up on welfare! Fact!

    • @4everu984
      @4everu984 4 роки тому +4

      When you write YOU, don’t you mean I?
      That’s a start...
      People leak.

    • @mostthegames3723
      @mostthegames3723 4 роки тому +2

      Fucking brilliant. My father is now dead, and since he owes the Canada revenue agency 3 million, me and my damaged siblings probably wont see a dime. You are right about the proverbial carrot (money) being dangled before our eyes. For decades we thought we would at least get something for our entrapment.

    • @todayischange97
      @todayischange97 4 роки тому +4

      Wow. You literally put into words my mom's situation with my dad.

    • @ImDemanding
      @ImDemanding 3 роки тому +7

      YES! I looked over my life & realized I was alone the entire time. I slept alone, vacationed alone, ate alone, suffered alone, etc. How in the hell did he convince me that he was “there for me” when I was doing everything on my own???? Everything!!!

    • @ImDemanding
      @ImDemanding 3 роки тому +1

      @@dawnshell4605 xo

  • @athinagiannopoulos5505
    @athinagiannopoulos5505 4 роки тому +6

    Thanatos.... as you said

  • @saraaaa1986
    @saraaaa1986 4 роки тому +17

    Thank you professor Vaknin, you've established that there's almost no cure for narcissists, is it the same case for codependents?
    I mean since you included them with narcissists in this videos and seems like they have some fundamental basics in common.

    • @samvaknin
      @samvaknin  4 роки тому +57

      Dependent Personality Disorder is treatable successfully.

    • @saraaaa1986
      @saraaaa1986 4 роки тому +13

      @@samvaknin Thank you very much for your reply, and for all your helpful insights

  • @annag7046
    @annag7046 4 роки тому +15

    Dr Vaknin, what would be the aim of therapy for codependent then? To get rid of or replace the puppetmaster? Is this possible at all?

    • @samvaknin
      @samvaknin  4 роки тому +24

      Dependent Personality Disorder is treatable successfully.

  • @sasuz1
    @sasuz1 4 роки тому +21

    so as a codependent, what am i supposed to do if i feel dead inside? how do i overcome this
    ?

    • @4everu984
      @4everu984 4 роки тому +4

      Corrective emotional experiences.
      Do over!

  • @huandru
    @huandru 4 роки тому +3

    I have it on good authority that the person who dies with the most toys wins. 😇

    • @4everu984
      @4everu984 4 роки тому +5

      Ever seen a Hearse pull a Uhaul?! 😉

    • @macnchessplz
      @macnchessplz 2 роки тому

      @@4everu984 👆🏼👍

  • @claudiavictoria3929
    @claudiavictoria3929 4 роки тому +4

    Dr Vaknin, can we consider being passive (doing as you are told without even hinting to answer back) a symptom of Covert BPD? Could it be that a very controlling, yet always forgiving, mother is what a grown-up BDP looks for in a partner? Thank you.

    • @samvaknin
      @samvaknin  4 роки тому +3

      Can we ask you to search my channel for relevant videos before you waste my time?

    • @claudiavictoria3929
      @claudiavictoria3929 4 роки тому

      @@samvaknin I'm sorry I've bothered you. I'll wait for a new video about covert bpd for more information.

    • @samvaknin
      @samvaknin  4 роки тому +7

      @@claudiavictoria3929 No need. Several EXISTING videos deal with your questions.

    • @divineprophecy48
      @divineprophecy48 4 роки тому +3

      @@claudiavictoria3929 what a pig dont be sorry this man is a narcissist himself

  • @JsusCrisis
    @JsusCrisis 2 роки тому +1

    My question for the best students of this class : Is there an correlation between being a People pleaser and codependency? Are there two related/symbiotic? Or completely separate matters?

    • @ledbysoulyoga3
      @ledbysoulyoga3 2 роки тому +8

      Yeah both go hand in hand. Co dependents are people pleaser.

  • @atiron6543
    @atiron6543 4 роки тому +3

    Reminds me of Andrew Cunanan

  • @angelakieler6447
    @angelakieler6447 3 роки тому +3

    You described perfectly the relationship, marriage I had.

  • @ryancaribou5546
    @ryancaribou5546 4 роки тому +2

    What’s the name of the person mentioned about around 29:20?

    • @samvaknin
      @samvaknin  4 роки тому +9

      Concept, not person: Puer Aeternus.

  • @kamintears
    @kamintears 4 роки тому +5

    Hi all, I'm a layman and a schizophrenic with delusions of grandure... I live with 40 other schizophrenics, around half of them also have delusions of grandure, narcissism. If schizophrenia is the confusion of inner objects as outside objects and narcissism is that reversed, should there not be a diagnosis like 'narcisistic schizophrenia' where it is confusion in both directions?

    • @samvaknin
      @samvaknin  4 роки тому +10

      Watch the vids about psychotic grandiosity. You are also confusing grandiosity with narcissism. Grandiosity is just element of many in narcissism, Bipolar disorders (manic phase), Borderline, psychopathy, and other mental health disorders.