They could not afford a safety scandal when trying to penetrate a new market, but they could definitely afford a bit more metal. So they over did it, they will optimise the design in later iterations.
It is like the ORIGINAL Oldsmobile Tornado front wheel drive model. This first year were amazingly robust with ball bearings all over. Subsequent years were cheapenized with bushing bearings instead of ball bearings, and the resultant maintenance headaches.
I’m no engineer, but while it’s commented that it’s over engineered for American standards but it’s likely made to meet Australian standards. Our guys are already getting these off road and fitted out with aftermarket accessories. We hold our vehicles to a higher build quality than most American made vehicles, so I would argue that it hasn’t been designed or made to suit the American market.
I can identify with that. There's also the South American and African markets as well. I have friends in Guyana who who still use Bedford Army trucks in the Amazon and in the gold mining industry as modern American and Japanese trucks with computerized electrics can't withstand the conditions.
They say over engineered like its a bad think.. 😂 outside of American they have high safety standards so makes sense to build to the highest standards..
@@ashan2272 They are looking at it from a cost to manufacture... not for the end user. Their business is to tell manufacturers how to optimize costs to maximize assembly simplicity and profit.
@@GetOffMyyLawn that’s absolutely correct if your designing to a singular market, but when your designing and manufacturing to suit multiple markets your going to build it to the highest minimum standard to increase compatibility across all the markets. BYD is expending very aggressively across the western market, there is another 12* models that are coming to the Australian market by BYD within the next two years.
A reminder: Sandy was the one warning all viewers that new Chinese cars will crush others. What Sandy and his team are saying now is due to changed circumstances, they can no longer tell viewers Chinese cars are better. They have to find a way to deliver mostly useful info to viewers without getting into trouble. I respect Sandy and the team tried that in today's environment of cross pacific relationships.
For German cars, oh yeah, this is what luxury cars should be built like; for byd , oh yeah, it's totally wasteful for these redundancies or simply overdone stuff. From the byd perspective, as a growing company, it's doing everything possible to build up its brand, rather than doing stealthy cost-cuting things or cheapening things up.
While it may be overbuilt from a manufacturer's perspective, it sure looks like it's a lot more in line with what the customer would really like to have. Don't forget, it's the manufacturer's that dictate what goes on sale and it's not like the buyer's have any say in the matter. I can really see why our so called American car/truck industry is scared of BYD. If the Americans would 'over-build' something like that, that appears very serviceable, everyone would buy one.
Really need a deep dive into the powertrain architecture here. Efficiency and range etc. Since the RamCharger will have similar architecture, this is very new and innovative. Seems ideal for larger trucks and industrial applications. A bit disappointed that this review was not more serious and in-depth. Its a compelling product architecture.
12:17 that "loop" in the DC link isn't causing any significant inductance increase because it's a physical loop not an electrical one! Notice, DC+ and DC- are duplicated on both sides, so the current path is closely coupled on each side and no H or E fields are created across the middle of the loop.......
The Aussies are raving about this pickup. 2.4t tow testing, off-road ability, overall performance. The brand has suffered some Burn Your Driveway incidents in China, but they sold over 4m electric and hybrid vehicles worldwide last year, so they're ramping up to be a major global player.
It's weird that so many people are commenting about BYD being a "new" company. The company is 30 years old, have been building cars since 2003 and building EVs since 2009. They are the worlds largest manufacturer of EVs (ahead of Tesla) and by far the largest manufacturer of EV trucks and commercial vehicles. If I had to guess, the overbuilt quality of these vehicles is for markets where trucks have to ACTUALLY be durable unlike the US market where insurance companies will total your vehicle after a fender bender so it doesn't have to actually survive much abuse. Yes I said that: US manufacfuring is focused on disposable vanity trucks, because that is what sells. Also, in other markets like Asiana and South America, smaller trucks are doing the same jobs that in the US you would get an F250 or F350 to do, so this is a "big" truck in terms of capabilities in a smaller package... which sounds awesome. Some of this "overbuilt" quality is likely carryover of parts and processes from their commercial truck business. It is certainly an informed choice and not a rookie mistake. If anything, all of Sandy's "criticisms" all sound to me like reasons to buy this truck over the competitors. Also the HV "loop" appears to be charging on one side and drive train on the other side.
Yep. Sandy criticisms are from an industry expert and consultant POV. To help manufacturers cut costs and optimize profits. From a consumers standpoint however what he thinks is best isn't necessarily what's best for the customer.
I am reminded of back in the 90's when Air China ordered a fleet of MD-90s for short haul domestic routes in China with over-water ETOPS packages with huge life-rafts that caused some seating to be removed and cut thousands of lbs of useful load. Later I helped a friend import some Nanchang CJ-6 trainer aircraft that were loosely based off a crude Soviet Yak-52 design, but the Chinese wanted to do the Russians one better, and flush riveted THE ENTIRE AIRPLANE, at great and unnecessary expense. They also used something like T6061-T6 on fuselage and wing skins, and 7000 sires aluminum on the vertical and horizontal Stabilizer and wing spars, because they thought that if 5051 or 6061-T6 was what Americans used in spars, that 7075 had to be better, when actually 7075 was so brittle the spars started cracking and had to be replaced with Spars made out of 6061. My sense was that they really didn't have the design and materials science, experience and resources to quantify a design so they overbuilt. I also seem to recall them using that wax coating over zinc chromate.
😂That wax coating for zinc coating might be prevent cross contamination for other part causing rust spot. I had one of this complain. I went back to supplier. And found out the rust spot was from machine shop work piece on other project. So instead of arguing with coustomer to continue take the part, we put bee wax on top of the onward batch and called it. 😂
9:10 coupling the ICE to the drive wheels is EXTREMELY sensible and smart. This is because in the real world, PHEVs tend to drive in one of two main operating conditions, either slow speed pretty much entirely off the battery (ICE = OFF) or on a highway (medium speeds) where for a small battery capacity, small Emachine capability PHEV, and in this case a high road load (large, high drag) vehicle there are very very significant loss reductions by driving the wheels directly rather than though the electric traction system. For example road load at 50mph is likely to be in the order of 15kW, so reducing loss from around 12 to 15% (going through the generator -> motor) to less than 1% (direct shaft drive of wheels) is a very very large saving indeed. IE once road loads exceed 10kW, you WILL be running the engine on a small battery PHEV, and once you are running the engine, it's far far better to drive the wheels directly. The Chevy Volt got this right all those years ago as you mention!
Ask Toyota and Dana about dip wax frames. I have a 2005 Tacoma which was manufactured at NUMMI in Fremont (now a Tesla assembly plant). Within the first year I owned the truck, all the dip wax washed off the frame and left the steel bright orange. The rust was so bad that Toyota took the initiative to replace the frame, springs, brake lines and fuel lines for free. The job on my truck took two dealer technicians two days. Toyota wound up replacing many thousands of Dana frames on Tundras and Tacomas. Think of how much that badly done dip wax cost.
I’m not too put off by employing the harmonic balancer with accessory drive belt grooves. BYD probably did the math and decided that over the number of units they intend to produce, it is cheaper to go into the parts bin and absorb the incremental cost than to engineer and source a blank chunk of steel and any elastomers which need to applied. I believe Sandy hit it with parts cost being so low that just keeping doing what you’re already doing is less expensive.
I would agree. Less coustomized part means better part availability, lower part cost and more robust part performace. Regardless of part compexity. There will be always a learn ing curve to stabilizing the quality. If the addional cost and risk doesnt justifjed then it might be better off fish out what is readily available
Obviously added strength for battery protection, but I wonder if the frame layering is to account for "weaker" lower mpa steel? Maybe more layers of weaker steel = less layers of higher mpa steel?? Maybe cheaper?
😂Nah, with that much weld on that bloody things. Your material saving if not justify with additional tooling, consumable and labor cost. The welding process is a "bitch". I think many are like to use it unless you are absolutly have to.
The coiled brake line may be to pressure balance the system by having equal length lines for both sides more than suspension system articulation take-up. Work hardening of the steel by constant flexing could lead to cracking, so I believe the assembly is not intended to be in motion.
nope, the coiled hardline is there for three reasons: 1) body on frame vehicles driven on rough roads (CHINA!) use a fairly soft set of body mounts to help improve cabin NVH. That means the body moves a fair bit on the frame, and these rough road vibrations can easily "High cycle" pretty quickly ie drive for 3 hours a day on a gravel road and you can accrue millions of cycles pretty quickly 2) Build tolerance. That coil de-criticalises that hydraulic pipe run. It makes it easy to fit without cross threading, which can be difficult for high stiffness spacially constrained hard lines. 3) The Shark body probably has that line going to a different place of the body bulkhead than other derivatives that use that chassis. this may have created an "impossible" bend in terms of radius and length, so the coiled hard line introduces a meander to allow the fitting to be connected to the new location
You people did no research or due diligence on this product and byd at all. The engine is a generator only at normal driving, but serves to turn the front wheel at high way speed or wen needed Only the young guy is right, the engine DMO is also used in other platforms such as their suv Leopard 5 and leopard 8 off roaders. Please do some due diligence They call it transvers mount duall mode offroad The engine is an eight in one technology, both engine and front motor are fused, that's the reason the engine is bigger than a normal 4 cylinder
How long have you been in China, and how familiar are you with with manufacturing culture and business in China? As an American who spent some time in China, married a lady from Wuhan who's family was involved in the Military and manufacturing, and as someone and also many years in Engineering and Aviation, I would not use the term 'American Paranoia' but perhaps healthy skepticism and suspicion.
Having worked on some Chinese equipment, I would say at least skepticism might be a better term than outright paranoia. I’ve encountered some pretty cheeky engineering and/or assembly. Chinese manufacturers are able to make good products, but the domestic engineering talent and financial/regulatory incentive isn’t always there to do so. That can lead to products which have very curious incongruities of over and under engineering side by side
Sandy is bullish as hell when it comes to China, he's not showing any bias here. This thing is a franken design, probably hurried along to get to market quickly.
@ Good comment. This reminds me of the first iteration Rivian R1-T which had some things which were overwrought. The trade-off was getting the product out the door in less time.
Sorry but what a load of crap about the front pulley TV damper! It would cost MORE to make that a specific part for this engine that has no FEAD, because obviously, that engine or a derivate of that engine does have a FEAD on other models, hence the grooved perifiery for the Multi-V ribbed belt. The only cost saving would be the deletion of the V rib machining, but then the TV ring would be a different mass, so you'd have to retune the TV (costing money for testing and validation) and now you have a unique part of just this derivative, so you have doubled your stored and inventory work. The cost of the Vrib machining is tiny, it'll be done by a capstain or CNC lathe, making tens of thousands of pulleys, so there is actually very little money to be saved (perhaps a couple of cents) which given a TV retune and validation is heading for $100k at least if you want to do it properly, would clearly never pay back........
Back in the early 80's I had a 67 Ford Falcon and it always smelled of gasoline. Being a poor college student I never filled it up. When I finally go a job I filled it up one afternoon and later I came out to see gas all over the driveway. The trunk and consequently the top of the gas tank had rusted out. Lucky I wasn't injured. That weekend I went shopping for a new vehicle.
On the battery, it looks like it could be AC refrigerant cooled? judging by what looks to be a TXV solenoid sticking out the ally valve block on the front, so the all-ove insulation is almost certainly a thermal insulation to try to keep the battery decoupled from the ambient work outside. As it's slung in the middle of the frame of a body-on-frame 4x4 there's going to be a lot of air and water rushing past, and given the relatively low performance of the electric powertrain, keeping it warm is more of a challenage than cooling it most likely, hence the insulation.
@@grungysquash1 pricing is very appealing.. and if the rumors of an upgraded model with 3.5t towing is correct then even if it’s another $10k, it’s likely going to be popular..
Monroe's comments against overbuilding reminds me of when in 1976 I bought a new Mercury Bobcat. Engine blew up @ 14K. At 60K everything else from suspension to electrical was self destructing. Then Toyota was importing the near indestructible Helix. There's that video where they put a Helix on top of a ten story building that was then imploded to the ground. Dug it out with a backhoe and drove it away. Maybe these will become the next Checker Marathon and last 1 million miles. I try my best to not buy anything made in China, but damn, if this is what it seems so far... Can't wait for further breakdowns.😮
What I see is that there is a ton of things BYD can change to make their vehicle cheaper to manufacture. At the moment they are already profitable so with a bit more effort they could join the likes of Tesla with huge profits on every vehicle, ot they can reduce their price so much that all the tariffs imposed on Chinese vehicles will not matter.
I suggest you search for BYD crash videos. There are some where they crash against a semi truck trailer and it's the trailer that gets fucked up. Everyone in the car was totally fine. BYD does make some crap cars sure, but they also make some legit world class stuff.
Time spent on worrying about something also costs money. Not only labour cost but also market opportunities and trends. As far as I see there is no such thing like a "production lifecycle" in China, they make products available ASAP and iterate in much faster pace then western companies.
Question? What could the crankshaft pulley be used for? Perhaps the frame is from another vehicle. What's the gauge thickness on the frame? Steel fuel tanks could be cheap in China. Notice how they marked every fastener.
No. Also more expensive than plastic fuel tank. I recall one of the OEM pHEv manufacture touch base on this point that because fuel will stay longer in the fuel tank on PHEv and it requires the tank can hold higher pressure to limit the escape vapor hece reduce polution. With consideration of both factors, they went back to metal fuel tank.
If I understand correctly this country has plenty of incentives in place for auto manufacturers to keep pumping out hybrids for our foreseeable future so if you had to drive or drag one into the woods to break down & turn into an off grid cabin power supply based on quality of the components from battery to engine which make & model would you choose & why?
To my untrained eye they could have shoved the gas tank back, extended the battery pack and included a pent house to integrate the power conversion systems and other dc related items and made it a serviceable item through the cabin like a tesla, overall could have packaged it better.
Wonderful video. Competitive analysis, no matter what the industry is challenging. Until you can understand the reason why something is done it is hard to know what is worth emulating. MANY YEARS ago, I learned about the launch of the LS400 in 1989. When it was torn down for competitive analysis, it was a shock where dollars were spent to exhibit refinement. The steering columns were isolated so that there would be NO VIBRATION for the driver to feel during startup. Not easy to do and shocking it would be included on a first effort. I expect the Shark will be shock to the system for US automakers. From a strategy standpoint, Chinese automakers are actively building export plants including Mexico. A similar effort in Canada amid trade friction and random behavior could place America in a weird place. People travel to their neighbors and experience products they CANNOT HAVE. This will be hard on Americans when they see these sorts of vehicles in the flesh.
I've been watching all your BYD analysis. There is not some super-efficient engineering, here, it might be generous to call the design sophistication average or below average. So how is BYD the biggest selling brand in China?
They say they dont need to do it this way. But like they say also, there seems like lot of share components from other projects. if model is derived from the U8 then seems like lot of thing make sense, because the U8 is 200k pHEv. Which this price tag, there is not much constraint on the cost.
The pure ev will be a beast. Gen 2 blade battery, so much space for a decent siced pack. can we hope for a frunk? In eu the truck will be allowed to have a 4250kg GWM up from 3500kg on a regular car lisence. because its already a version with fossil engine in it.
They don't care about money, they might even be fine with taking a loss on every vehicle. They just want to establish themselves as a big player in new markets.
I'd be astonished if anyone uses hydraulic hardline for any flexible passover. This is because the hardline has almost no hysteretic losses, ie with will vibrate and stay vibrating, unlike a rubber/woven flexiline that is explicitly designed to damp vibrational energy. As a result, by the time you have made your hardline flexible enough to avoid fatigue/working hardening issues, you have just brough it's critical vibration frequency down in the chassis ride frequency window, or certainly the 2nd or 3rd harmonic of it. As a result,t hat large coil will experience very large vibrations and fail in short order!
Sandy doesn't really seem to understand what truck buyers want.. at all. We WANT and over engineered truck. In what dreamworld is being over engineered and TOO strong a bad thing. This dude is just a freakin "git off my lawn" old man. Also, you do know that the engine needs to drive the truck directly when the battery is empty, right?
this whole phev craze going on has slowly morphed into the entire auto industry reinventing the chevy volt with worse specs. everyone loves driving around in their 50-70k$ phev and smugly plugs in every day thinking theyre saving money. i just love parking next to them in my 6000$ clapped out 2013 volt which gets 50 miles of range. the car paid for itself after 18 months of driving lol. everyones suprized that its a plug in. i dont even wash it, do around 40k miles a year, and put 100 miles on the battery every day. makes the guilt sting a little bit more
You can look into the F3 DM from BYD, that is where this all begins. The Volt really cant hold a candle against these newer generation PHEv I term of power and efficency, and the car was pricy when it was new
@@appl314 More likely the ford ranger phev and other mid sized utes/pickups. Its downfalls are the tow rating at 2500kg and the payload rating of 790kg. However there is word of an upgrade coming with 3500kg towing and a 2L turbo engine.
Two thoughts! #1 New vehicle market, untested, use existing components as is. #2 Until market develops, cut costs by using existing tooling and materials. It seems too risky for China to spend millions or billions on a new design that may flop. This looks like a trial balloon for the US style market. BYD and other Chinese vehicles for Mexico and South America seem way simpler and cheaply built.
it amazes me that americans don't realise how outrageously conservative they are lol "4 cylinders don't last as long as a sloppy v8" AHAHAHAHHAHAHA oh ffs
ANCAP rating still pending in AUS, but indicated to be a 5 star rating which is the same as the ford ranger. In context, the f150 doesn’t have an ANCAP rating as it’s a heavy utility, but it would likely rate 2-3 which is on the verge of unsellable here.
you can say whatever you want about a BYD, i don't even take 1 for free, they use cheap bad batteries that r flamable for no reason, i ONLY will go electric when all EV'S use solidstate batteries and got rid of the lithium hazards
Total design cluster . So many points of failure. Turbos, tons of wiring, suspension complexity. Given terrible service record of BYD I wouldn’t touch this one with a 10 ft pole.
They could not afford a safety scandal when trying to penetrate a new market, but they could definitely afford a bit more metal.
So they over did it, they will optimise the design in later iterations.
Yes, I guess this is the thinking behind, as growing new company .
@@mingouczjcz3800 They've been around for 30 years. This is not a new company.
As a consumer, I wouldn't mind over engineered vehicles for a lower cost😅
It is like the ORIGINAL Oldsmobile Tornado front wheel drive model. This first year were amazingly robust with ball bearings all over. Subsequent years were cheapenized with bushing bearings instead of ball bearings, and the resultant maintenance headaches.
I’m no engineer, but while it’s commented that it’s over engineered for American standards but it’s likely made to meet Australian standards. Our guys are already getting these off road and fitted out with aftermarket accessories. We hold our vehicles to a higher build quality than most American made vehicles, so I would argue that it hasn’t been designed or made to suit the American market.
I can identify with that. There's also the South American and African markets as well. I have friends in Guyana who who still use Bedford Army trucks in the Amazon and in the gold mining industry as modern American and Japanese trucks with computerized electrics can't withstand the conditions.
They say over engineered like its a bad think.. 😂 outside of American they have high safety standards so makes sense to build to the highest standards..
@@ashan2272 They are looking at it from a cost to manufacture... not for the end user. Their business is to tell manufacturers how to optimize costs to maximize assembly simplicity and profit.
@ "Over engineered" may be a politically correct term for something else not quite synonymous with "Highest Standards"
@@GetOffMyyLawn that’s absolutely correct if your designing to a singular market, but when your designing and manufacturing to suit multiple markets your going to build it to the highest minimum standard to increase compatibility across all the markets. BYD is expending very aggressively across the western market, there is another 12* models that are coming to the Australian market by BYD within the next two years.
A reminder: Sandy was the one warning all viewers that new Chinese cars will crush others. What Sandy and his team are saying now is due to changed circumstances, they can no longer tell viewers Chinese cars are better. They have to find a way to deliver mostly useful info to viewers without getting into trouble.
I respect Sandy and the team tried that in today's environment of cross pacific relationships.
For German cars, oh yeah, this is what luxury cars should be built like; for byd , oh yeah, it's totally wasteful for these redundancies or simply overdone stuff.
From the byd perspective, as a growing company, it's doing everything possible to build up its brand, rather than doing stealthy cost-cuting things or cheapening things up.
While it may be overbuilt from a manufacturer's perspective, it sure looks like it's a lot more in line with what the customer would really like to have. Don't forget, it's the manufacturer's that dictate what goes on sale and it's not like the buyer's have any say in the matter. I can really see why our so called American car/truck industry is scared of BYD. If the Americans would 'over-build' something like that, that appears very serviceable, everyone would buy one.
Over built isn't the same as well built. Heavier isn't the same as sturdier. Extra weight hurts range and economy.
Really need a deep dive into the powertrain architecture here. Efficiency and range etc.
Since the RamCharger will have similar architecture, this is very new and innovative. Seems ideal for larger trucks and industrial applications.
A bit disappointed that this review was not more serious and in-depth. Its a compelling product architecture.
12:17 that "loop" in the DC link isn't causing any significant inductance increase because it's a physical loop not an electrical one! Notice, DC+ and DC- are duplicated on both sides, so the current path is closely coupled on each side and no H or E fields are created across the middle of the loop.......
I'm betting on side is for charging and the other side is for drive train. So only one side will be active at any given time.
Can’t wait to see that battery and transmission opened 😁😁👍👍✅✅
Oh no they've got a lot of crash protection, what a shock for the 'chinese cars unsafe' club 😂
Maybe the BYD-Team saw some whistlindiesel-videos.
Yes, we need WD to spend a week with one of these!
The Aussies are raving about this pickup. 2.4t tow testing, off-road ability, overall performance. The brand has suffered some Burn Your Driveway incidents in China, but they sold over 4m electric and hybrid vehicles worldwide last year, so they're ramping up to be a major global player.
It's weird that so many people are commenting about BYD being a "new" company. The company is 30 years old, have been building cars since 2003 and building EVs since 2009. They are the worlds largest manufacturer of EVs (ahead of Tesla) and by far the largest manufacturer of EV trucks and commercial vehicles. If I had to guess, the overbuilt quality of these vehicles is for markets where trucks have to ACTUALLY be durable unlike the US market where insurance companies will total your vehicle after a fender bender so it doesn't have to actually survive much abuse. Yes I said that: US manufacfuring is focused on disposable vanity trucks, because that is what sells. Also, in other markets like Asiana and South America, smaller trucks are doing the same jobs that in the US you would get an F250 or F350 to do, so this is a "big" truck in terms of capabilities in a smaller package... which sounds awesome. Some of this "overbuilt" quality is likely carryover of parts and processes from their commercial truck business. It is certainly an informed choice and not a rookie mistake. If anything, all of Sandy's "criticisms" all sound to me like reasons to buy this truck over the competitors.
Also the HV "loop" appears to be charging on one side and drive train on the other side.
Yep. Sandy criticisms are from an industry expert and consultant POV. To help manufacturers cut costs and optimize profits. From a consumers standpoint however what he thinks is best isn't necessarily what's best for the customer.
Now I want to buy one.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
I am reminded of back in the 90's when Air China ordered a fleet of MD-90s for short haul domestic routes in China with over-water ETOPS packages with huge life-rafts that caused some seating to be removed and cut thousands of lbs of useful load.
Later I helped a friend import some Nanchang CJ-6 trainer aircraft that were loosely based off a crude Soviet Yak-52 design, but the Chinese wanted to do the Russians one better, and flush riveted THE ENTIRE AIRPLANE, at great and unnecessary expense. They also used something like T6061-T6 on fuselage and wing skins, and 7000 sires aluminum on the vertical and horizontal Stabilizer and wing spars, because they thought that if 5051 or 6061-T6 was what Americans used in spars, that 7075 had to be better, when actually 7075 was so brittle the spars started cracking and had to be replaced with Spars made out of 6061.
My sense was that they really didn't have the design and materials science, experience and resources to quantify a design so they overbuilt. I also seem to recall them using that wax coating over zinc chromate.
😂That wax coating for zinc coating might be prevent cross contamination for other part causing rust spot. I had one of this complain. I went back to supplier. And found out the rust spot was from machine shop work piece on other project. So instead of arguing with coustomer to continue take the part, we put bee wax on top of the onward batch and called it. 😂
9:10 coupling the ICE to the drive wheels is EXTREMELY sensible and smart. This is because in the real world, PHEVs tend to drive in one of two main operating conditions, either slow speed pretty much entirely off the battery (ICE = OFF) or on a highway (medium speeds) where for a small battery capacity, small Emachine capability PHEV, and in this case a high road load (large, high drag) vehicle there are very very significant loss reductions by driving the wheels directly rather than though the electric traction system. For example road load at 50mph is likely to be in the order of 15kW, so reducing loss from around 12 to 15% (going through the generator -> motor) to less than 1% (direct shaft drive of wheels) is a very very large saving indeed. IE once road loads exceed 10kW, you WILL be running the engine on a small battery PHEV, and once you are running the engine, it's far far better to drive the wheels directly.
The Chevy Volt got this right all those years ago as you mention!
Ask Toyota and Dana about dip wax frames. I have a 2005 Tacoma which was manufactured at NUMMI in Fremont (now a Tesla assembly plant). Within the first year I owned the truck, all the dip wax washed off the frame and left the steel bright orange. The rust was so bad that Toyota took the initiative to replace the frame, springs, brake lines and fuel lines for free. The job on my truck took two dealer technicians two days. Toyota wound up replacing many thousands of Dana frames on Tundras and Tacomas. Think of how much that badly done dip wax cost.
Great. Thanks for sharing this
You bet!
The Shark - built to survive a Whale attack.
I’m not too put off by employing the harmonic balancer with accessory drive belt grooves. BYD probably did the math and decided that over the number of units they intend to produce, it is cheaper to go into the parts bin and absorb the incremental cost than to engineer and source a blank chunk of steel and any elastomers which need to applied. I believe Sandy hit it with parts cost being so low that just keeping doing what you’re already doing is less expensive.
I would agree. Less coustomized part means better part availability, lower part cost and more robust part performace. Regardless of part compexity. There will be always a learn ing curve to stabilizing the quality. If the addional cost and risk doesnt justifjed then it might be better off fish out what is readily available
Obviously added strength for battery protection, but I wonder if the frame layering is to account for "weaker" lower mpa steel?
Maybe more layers of weaker steel = less layers of higher mpa steel?? Maybe cheaper?
😂Nah, with that much weld on that bloody things. Your material saving if not justify with additional tooling, consumable and labor cost. The welding process is a "bitch". I think many are like to use it unless you are absolutly have to.
The coiled brake line may be to pressure balance the system by having equal length lines for both sides more than suspension system articulation take-up. Work hardening of the steel by constant flexing could lead to cracking, so I believe the assembly is not intended to be in motion.
nope, the coiled hardline is there for three reasons:
1) body on frame vehicles driven on rough roads (CHINA!) use a fairly soft set of body mounts to help improve cabin NVH. That means the body moves a fair bit on the frame, and these rough road vibrations can easily "High cycle" pretty quickly ie drive for 3 hours a day on a gravel road and you can accrue millions of cycles pretty quickly
2) Build tolerance. That coil de-criticalises that hydraulic pipe run. It makes it easy to fit without cross threading, which can be difficult for high stiffness spacially constrained hard lines.
3) The Shark body probably has that line going to a different place of the body bulkhead than other derivatives that use that chassis. this may have created an "impossible" bend in terms of radius and length, so the coiled hard line introduces a meander to allow the fitting to be connected to the new location
@@maxtorque2277 Thank you. I appreciate the the additional information.
May be they value life
Great video👍
Thanks 👍
Watch out, Sandy has a pocketknife and is poking at the battery pack!!!
Blade batteries can withstand stabbing
23:25 HIGH VOLTAGE -munro pokes knife
You people did no research or due diligence on this product and byd at all.
The engine is a generator only at normal driving, but serves to turn the front wheel at high way speed or wen needed
Only the young guy is right, the engine DMO is also used in other platforms such as their suv
Leopard 5 and leopard 8 off roaders.
Please do some due diligence
They call it transvers mount duall mode offroad
The engine is an eight in one technology, both engine and front motor are fused, that's the reason the engine is bigger than a normal 4 cylinder
Good thing they say this at 9:00 if you watch the video 😂
Relax bro it's not a personal attack on China.
What is the pulley for? For timing the engine after the timing chain/belt breaks or is replaced as per regular maintenance.
The American Paranoia and anxiety about everything China really is something to see
How long have you been in China, and how familiar are you with with manufacturing culture and business in China? As an American who spent some time in China, married a lady from Wuhan who's family was involved in the Military and manufacturing, and as someone and also many years in Engineering and Aviation, I would not use the term 'American Paranoia' but perhaps healthy skepticism and suspicion.
Excellent rebuttal!
Having worked on some Chinese equipment, I would say at least skepticism might be a better term than outright paranoia. I’ve encountered some pretty cheeky engineering and/or assembly. Chinese manufacturers are able to make good products, but the domestic engineering talent and financial/regulatory incentive isn’t always there to do so. That can lead to products which have very curious incongruities of over and under engineering side by side
Sandy is bullish as hell when it comes to China, he's not showing any bias here. This thing is a franken design, probably hurried along to get to market quickly.
@ Good comment. This reminds me of the first iteration Rivian R1-T which had some things which were overwrought. The trade-off was getting the product out the door in less time.
Sorry but what a load of crap about the front pulley TV damper! It would cost MORE to make that a specific part for this engine that has no FEAD, because obviously, that engine or a derivate of that engine does have a FEAD on other models, hence the grooved perifiery for the Multi-V ribbed belt. The only cost saving would be the deletion of the V rib machining, but then the TV ring would be a different mass, so you'd have to retune the TV (costing money for testing and validation) and now you have a unique part of just this derivative, so you have doubled your stored and inventory work. The cost of the Vrib machining is tiny, it'll be done by a capstain or CNC lathe, making tens of thousands of pulleys, so there is actually very little money to be saved (perhaps a couple of cents) which given a TV retune and validation is heading for $100k at least if you want to do it properly, would clearly never pay back........
BYD blade batteries are designed to be structural, they don't need cross members.
Dude, Paul looks like he's expecting an attack from somewhere at any moment.
Chinese quality, the Americans are astounded. Welcome to the China century!
Bot?
Back in the early 80's I had a 67 Ford Falcon and it always smelled of gasoline. Being a poor college student I never filled it up. When I finally go a job I filled it up one afternoon and later I came out to see gas all over the driveway. The trunk and consequently the top of the gas tank had rusted out. Lucky I wasn't injured. That weekend I went shopping for a new vehicle.
On the battery, it looks like it could be AC refrigerant cooled? judging by what looks to be a TXV solenoid sticking out the ally valve block on the front, so the all-ove insulation is almost certainly a thermal insulation to try to keep the battery decoupled from the ambient work outside. As it's slung in the middle of the frame of a body-on-frame 4x4 there's going to be a lot of air and water rushing past, and given the relatively low performance of the electric powertrain, keeping it warm is more of a challenage than cooling it most likely, hence the insulation.
I can think of at least 4 to 6 uses for that pulley off of the top of my head.
I live in a more rural area and am an off roader.
Another great presentation and video from Sandy Munro and staff at Munro Live/YT!
The metal flexing all the time on brake lines would scare me. How long before metal to fatigue.
I commented the same thing. I believe the coil is more to pressure balance the system by having equal length lines.
Thank You
World Peace
Couldn’t you have used a camera to look inside the box section chassis to see what reinforcement they use?
The Shark is selling well in Australia. So far reviews are mixed but the pricing is very sharp.
@@grungysquash1 pricing is very appealing.. and if the rumors of an upgraded model with 3.5t towing is correct then even if it’s another $10k, it’s likely going to be popular..
Any crash test data? Protecting battery is one thing, protecting occupants is another.
Monroe's comments against overbuilding reminds me of when in 1976 I bought a new Mercury Bobcat. Engine blew up @ 14K. At 60K everything else from suspension to electrical was self destructing. Then Toyota was importing the near indestructible Helix. There's that video where they put a Helix on top of a ten story building that was then imploded to the ground. Dug it out with a backhoe and drove it away. Maybe these will become the next Checker Marathon and last 1 million miles.
I try my best to not buy anything made in China, but damn, if this is what it seems so far... Can't wait for further breakdowns.😮
Yea, it is reminiscent of an old Checker.
Good old uk Top gear ❤
You mean Hilux?
What I see is that there is a ton of things BYD can change to make their vehicle cheaper to manufacture. At the moment they are already profitable so with a bit more effort they could join the likes of Tesla with huge profits on every vehicle, ot they can reduce their price so much that all the tariffs imposed on Chinese vehicles will not matter.
I suggest you search for BYD crash videos. There are some where they crash against a semi truck trailer and it's the trailer that gets fucked up. Everyone in the car was totally fine.
BYD does make some crap cars sure, but they also make some legit world class stuff.
Time spent on worrying about something also costs money. Not only labour cost but also market opportunities and trends. As far as I see there is no such thing like a "production lifecycle" in China, they make products available ASAP and iterate in much faster pace then western companies.
Why don't they run orange power cables through the frame?
Orange is the color code used for high voltage cables.
Interesting that someone who claims he was an ''Engine Engineer'' would not know what an Harmonic Dampener is for.
Question?
What could the crankshaft pulley be used for?
Perhaps the frame is from another vehicle.
What's the gauge thickness on the frame?
Steel fuel tanks could be cheap in China.
Notice how they marked every fastener.
No. Also more expensive than plastic fuel tank. I recall one of the OEM pHEv manufacture touch base on this point that because fuel will stay longer in the fuel tank on PHEv and it requires the tank can hold higher pressure to limit the escape vapor hece reduce polution. With consideration of both factors, they went back to metal fuel tank.
If I understand correctly this country has plenty of incentives in place for auto manufacturers to keep pumping out hybrids for our foreseeable future so if you had to drive or drag one into the woods to break down & turn into an off grid cabin power supply based on quality of the components from battery to engine which make & model would you choose & why?
Did Sandy ever work on Tanks?
Yes
You ask many questions comrades.
Perhaps you all need to be reprogrammed to appreciate the CCP way?
To my untrained eye they could have shoved the gas tank back, extended the battery pack and included a pent house to integrate the power conversion systems and other dc related items and made it a serviceable item through the cabin like a tesla, overall could have packaged it better.
I think they did comment shovel the tank behind the rear axle is not a very good idea.
Wonderful video. Competitive analysis, no matter what the industry is challenging. Until you can understand the reason why something is done it is hard to know what is worth emulating. MANY YEARS ago, I learned about the launch of the LS400 in 1989. When it was torn down for competitive analysis, it was a shock where dollars were spent to exhibit refinement. The steering columns were isolated so that there would be NO VIBRATION for the driver to feel during startup. Not easy to do and shocking it would be included on a first effort.
I expect the Shark will be shock to the system for US automakers. From a strategy standpoint, Chinese automakers are actively building export plants including Mexico. A similar effort in Canada amid trade friction and random behavior could place America in a weird place. People travel to their neighbors and experience products they CANNOT HAVE. This will be hard on Americans when they see these sorts of vehicles in the flesh.
I've been watching all your BYD analysis. There is not some super-efficient engineering, here, it might be generous to call the design sophistication average or below average. So how is BYD the biggest selling brand in China?
They say they dont need to do it this way. But like they say also, there seems like lot of share components from other projects. if model is derived from the U8 then seems like lot of thing make sense, because the U8 is 200k pHEv. Which this price tag, there is not much constraint on the cost.
The pure ev will be a beast. Gen 2 blade battery, so much space for a decent siced pack. can we hope for a frunk? In eu the truck will be allowed to have a 4250kg GWM up from 3500kg on a regular car lisence. because its already a version with fossil engine in it.
They don't care about money, they might even be fine with taking a loss on every vehicle.
They just want to establish themselves as a big player in new markets.
Not bad for a first try. Imagine the next iterations? Would love to get one
😂Nah, this might be the best if they go down the same path like other OEM start thinking of cost cutting
I am not going to complain about low price high quality truck unless I am working for the big 3😊
Not first but still here
I'd be astonished if anyone uses hydraulic hardline for any flexible passover. This is because the hardline has almost no hysteretic losses, ie with will vibrate and stay vibrating, unlike a rubber/woven flexiline that is explicitly designed to damp vibrational energy. As a result, by the time you have made your hardline flexible enough to avoid fatigue/working hardening issues, you have just brough it's critical vibration frequency down in the chassis ride frequency window, or certainly the 2nd or 3rd harmonic of it. As a result,t hat large coil will experience very large vibrations and fail in short order!
The power chain is a bit like honda's immd.
The early IMM cant have the engine shut off.
Sandy doesn't really seem to understand what truck buyers want.. at all. We WANT and over engineered truck. In what dreamworld is being over engineered and TOO strong a bad thing. This dude is just a freakin "git off my lawn" old man.
Also, you do know that the engine needs to drive the truck directly when the battery is empty, right?
That is the mind set of most auto engineers. Find a way to split a penny to 2 and make it to get a one dollar worth job done.
this whole phev craze going on has slowly morphed into the entire auto industry reinventing the chevy volt with worse specs. everyone loves driving around in their 50-70k$ phev and smugly plugs in every day thinking theyre saving money. i just love parking next to them in my 6000$ clapped out 2013 volt which gets 50 miles of range. the car paid for itself after 18 months of driving lol. everyones suprized that its a plug in. i dont even wash it, do around 40k miles a year, and put 100 miles on the battery every day. makes the guilt sting a little bit more
You can look into the F3 DM from BYD, that is where this all begins. The Volt really cant hold a candle against these newer generation PHEv I term of power and efficency, and the car was pricy when it was new
Sandy talking about tanks and steam engines. lol
Since when the truck needs these much of redundancy ?
Noooo first😅. Knowledge is power
overcapacity now its overdone wtf
Sandy Claus 🎅🏻
Is this to compete with the cybertruck?
@@appl314 More likely the ford ranger phev and other mid sized utes/pickups. Its downfalls are the tow rating at 2500kg and the payload rating of 790kg. However there is word of an upgrade coming with 3500kg towing and a 2L turbo engine.
This truck is displacing Toyota Hilux and ford ranger in many parts of the world.
Maybe this is China's Galendawagon, to be used by the military
50 cent army is all over the comment section, crying and attacking Sandy and his team, again.
Two thoughts! #1 New vehicle market, untested, use existing components as is. #2 Until market develops, cut costs by using existing tooling and materials. It seems too risky for China to spend millions or billions on a new design that may flop. This looks like a trial balloon for the US style market. BYD and other Chinese vehicles for Mexico and South America seem way simpler and cheaply built.
"Over done" These people are used to shitty products and bad quality products focused on cost cuts!
2500kg braked trailer
Frame Rails look thin
Can't say it's cheaply made. Should hold up to abuse. Wish it was totally EV.
bottom of the barrel 'talent' - why would anyone with ha semblance of jr college experience want to work here?
First!
🏆
Why would a 4 cylinder engine not last as long as a V8?
Hahaha, these guys are using 1950 knowledge to comment on a 2025 design..
It isn't Tesla so it's not genius and therefore wasteful
it amazes me that americans don't realise how outrageously conservative they are lol
"4 cylinders don't last as long as a sloppy v8" AHAHAHAHHAHAHA oh ffs
Piece of trash. Good luck getting one of these repaired if they're ever allowed in the US. Be interested to see proper crash testing too.
ANCAP rating still pending in AUS, but indicated to be a 5 star rating which is the same as the ford ranger. In context, the f150 doesn’t have an ANCAP rating as it’s a heavy utility, but it would likely rate 2-3 which is on the verge of unsellable here.
you can say whatever you want about a BYD, i don't even take 1 for free, they use cheap bad batteries that r flamable for no reason, i ONLY will go electric when all EV'S use solidstate batteries and got rid of the lithium hazards
Xi jinping made bomb
Total design cluster . So many points of failure. Turbos, tons of wiring, suspension complexity. Given terrible service record of BYD I wouldn’t touch this one with a 10 ft pole.
What terrible service record?
true.
Have u ever seen the engine bay of a jeep 4xE? 😂😂
I WANT ONE