Skip to 10:50 for the "transphobia" allegation against Destiny with video context. No one is perfect in live debates etc but this was a next day recap and the Serfs debate wasn't even related to the fascism debate panel. It was simply told to a large audience confidently without proof. EDITOR'S NOTE - in the past, whenever people mischaracterizes Destiny he rarely makes videos addressing them and usually memes or challenges people to back up those claims but people duck those conversations. However, over time, some memes have telephoned into wild stories about secret daughters, being a landlord and being a slave owner in Cuba. From now on, whenever these accusations come up, I'm trying a new approach and I will do my best to make videos addressing and refuting them immediately. FULL DEBATE PANEL VIDEO ►ua-cam.com/video/4WLOMnthFfg/v-deo.html FULL SERFSTV DEBATE VIDEO ►ua-cam.com/video/4WLOMnthFfg/v-deo.html
@@quinnmargolin9438 destiny is half cuban so lefties use racist slurs against him for that. Claiming he owns slaves because he has blue eyes too even though his mum (cuban) has brown eyes.
If I may... Grifter : a person who engages in swindling. A person who operates a sideshow at a fair, circus, etc. Usually gambling. Ponzi Scheme : a form of fraudulent activity that lures investors and profits. Catfishing : Deceptive activity where a person creates a fictional persona or fake identity for the sake of financial gains. Vaush is living because everyone else is paying for his lifestyle. Going by this; he is clearly a full blown capitalist by his own definition of what Capitalism is. Vaush's Capitalism: Someone who profits and lives off of other people's labor and money.
People should note that some of the clips were from after vaush already left. They also didn't show the clips where vaush clearly said the butterfly ballots were not impossible to read lol. This is just a circle-jerk video and I'm sure there's a similar version going up on vaush's channel in response. I await the day when we get real content again from either channel.
@@snowballeffect7812 The problem was when he first brought up the butterfly ballots. His rhetoric made it seem as if they were impossible to read then when destiny brought up that they actually aren't that difficult to read all of a sudden vaush is like of course not. Even if it was just hyperbole his hyperbole insinuated something that was very disingenuous. The clips after vaush already left are COMPLETELY irrelevant as this is a response to vaushes video on the panel. Not just what happened during the debate. You say that this is a circle jerk but the circle jerk is happening almost entirely on vaushes side.
To be honest that meme is shit beacuse everyone else can be wrong. The problem here is that he didn´t have sufficient reason for thinking everyone else was wrong.
@@dompishen that's not really the point of the meme, of course everyone else can be wrong, but it's highly unlikely and calls for self reflection. If you can be critical of yourself and still believe you are right then prove it! Vaush failed to do so and by default made himself look mad.
@Troll Bait The amount of people in Destinys community alone that believe Vaush is genuine is hilariously sad on its own. I shudder to think of idiocy it takes to be an actual Vaush fan. As far as I'm concerned there's only two types of people that genuinely support him: 1. People that know that he's full of shit 90% of the time but see how useful and effective his rhetoric is for their political cause. 2. Hopeless socially inept idiots. Like it's just so overtly obvious how fake and full of crap he is, that you'd have to be a completely clueless to social cues to take anything he says at face value.
@@josephjohn907 Thank you for this. It's really made me reconsider my stance on Destiny. From this day forward I'll make sure to tell everyone not to listen to Destiny because some guy on the internet said his fans were fools.
Uhm, only one channel keeps making videos about this divorced couple and it ain't Vaush. Not to mention, for some reason Destiny's community cant let go, either, as two minutes on his subreddit or discord will tell you.
I love August providing all of the context. Incredible editor. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing people proven wrong in real time. It's just fantastic work.
@@user-sk4ds1rg1z imagine Destiny fans thinking parts of this panel like, 'it's just incompetence that the Florida election coincidentally went for Bush' are wins. Jesus, Destiny, in his infinite wisdom and age, has apparently progressed so far beyond us that he can rewrite history and trick those of us who were old enough to know what was going on then that our eyes were deceiving us.
@@andersmeisner1642 no one forced vaush to stay there, no one forced vaush to """""analyze"""" the debate after the fact in bad faith.. Idk if I legit didn't want to engage or talk with someone at all for the next 5 years, Id probably leave the public panel if he came on, regardless of optics
I love that Vaush's coping mechanism for when nobody agrees with him (because he's wrong) is just assume that Destiny has some superpower that makes everyone agree/not call him out
@Oliver Ridderstolpe because he's furious at destiny. every time he said destiny was mad it was a projection. vaush is so ass mad that anytime destiny spoke he thought he was being attacked and wanted to attack destiny. he thinks destiny came into the panel to attack him when the first person destiny spoke to wasn't even vaush. insanity.
@Oliver Ridderstolpe I was thinking the solution for this is to have Vaush clearly state when he's finished making his point, so he can't backtrack and say people are interrupting him.
@Troll Bait "Rhetoric and rhetorical dumps" I think the best arguer should also be the best teacher. Vaush doesn't teach, he only argues. Destiny at least tries to teach to a small degree.
Seriously "Destiny is so obsessed with me" "He's a uniform demagogue" "Destiny doesn't argue in good faith" "He only argues to score points with his chat" "He purges everyone who challenges him" Vaush literally, and i mean literally did all of these himself and then accused Destiny of doing so
The thing is most people are too lazy to check vods or search for the specific timestamp so watching or hearing from others is the way they find info. And honestly a lot of people need to hear only one political aspect of a person that's fucked the write off that person completely so it's not hard to spread false info on stuff like this.
It’s similar to Trump, you can spread easily falsifiable misinformation to your fans because they’re likely to trust you and run with your narrative rather than be cautious and fact check you. It’s especially effective if what you’re doing lying about feeds into a pre existing narrative such as “Destiny is a bad person and obsessed with Vaush”
It's amazing, it's just giving Vaush more rope to hang himself with the more he does it - and he can't help himself. This editor deserves a fucking award.
Arguably though, both Destiny and Vaush said dumb shit in regards to the Scolia (or however you spell his name) part. For Vaush, saying Scolia would send him to a death camp is absurd. That's beyond exaggeration. And for Destiny, suggesting that Vaush's saying that was fascism in action was equally dumb. That isn't even wrong. That simply has nothing to do with the concept even surrounding fascism IMO. I'd love to know how it does though, genuinely. Still going through the video, but admittedly I might stop partway through. I'm super over the Vaush arc. I wish they'd just have a calm discussion, rather than firing shots back and forth via twitch clips. Maybe they already have, I've basically stopped watching these videos. I only watched this one because I saw "allegation" and thought it might be something genuinely bad.
While I do agree, if Vaush didn't watch the full trans name tag thing, I can almost see where he's coming from. See, editor-san showed us a clip starting at 5 minutes after the actual discussion started. It opens with this: Lance: "They're actively forcing their employees to have to use deadnames on their ID tags, if they haven't been able to change them, for whatever reason, usually economically, through the state level. So that to me is incredibly fucked up-" A Girl's Name: "How is that incredibly fucked up?" Lance: "... forcing employees to use deadnames?" Nathan's Dad: "If they haven't gotten it changed through the state? My guess is that this is probably policy almost everywhere. How do you have people who just give whatever name they want if it's not registered anywhere with a state body? I don- I'm genuinely asking you, I dont know. I haven't heard about this issue, but that sounds like common sense to me. Of course you have to go by your state registered name." Lance: "Because- well first off, it's not something that every person can afford, right? The ability to change your name is usually something that's privileged for people who can afford to do that. Secondly, the ID tags themselves, we're not talking about verification badges, we're talking about what they have to wear as part of their like, their everyday getup. It was something that was like spread around through the alphabet union, you know?" Mr Melina: "... o-ok... I'm gonna-" Lance: "Your company badge doesn't mean shit. I'm not talking about like securi-" A gnome fuck: "If you work at google, you should be able to afford a name change. OK? Number one. Ok? Number two: I'm sorry but in terms of how security and everything works, you probably need to have like actual name badges and shit, I'm sorry like, I-I dunno how you can think that you can just not do that, like...?" As you can see, if he watched only the first 4-5 sentances, about a minute long, he might not have caught what Destiny's contention specifically was. I commented on both that video and this one that I still think Destiny had a pretty dumb take here. It's not THAT hard to find a different solution for trans employees. And even if it was, he comes off as very unsympathetic here. "How is that fucked up", "seems like common sense to me". I think this is one of those things that he'd have been more sympathetic about before the #LeftyArc. But also, like, fuck Vaush for being that uncharitable and/or just watching one minute and assuming the rest.
Vaush is desperately trying to reframe the panel as "wow, destiny's takes were so bad lol. I cant believe he's targeting me!". The reality is that he gave horrible takes for hours that were universally disagreed with by the entire panel.
Vaush was legitimately so hard to listen to during that panel. He constantly tried to reframe the discussion as Destiny coming in to attack him but Vaush was the only one constantly descending into ad homs and wasting everybody's time. Even Demonmama was disavowing Vaush's shit takes but all Vaush could do was bitch and whine at Destiny.
I'm not even here to defend Vaush, but Destiny absolutely gave shit takes and he puts them here in the first 10 minutes. Are we watching the same clips?
@@abcdefghijfghij that's NOT what Destiny and everyone were saying that's how Vaush was reframing it. The point there was that judges are a part of the democratic process as they are appointed by elected officials. If the Supreme Court rules that there wasn't fraud in that election, then there must be some evidence put forth that would discredit the Supreme Court, otherwise you would be the one in opposition to the democratic process. There was no causal link found that suggested the court wasn't to be trusted
@@abcdefghijfghij I would add to what @DaGoon said and say that in the context of the Bush election, if he submits his case to the courts via the democratic process and they rule in his favor then you cant really say it was undemocratic unless you have some additional evidence to suggest that the ruling was made undemocratically. What would be UNdemocratic would be for Bush to find some way to subvert the courts or change the rules of the judicial system to his favor. Had he done that then Vaush would have been given a lot more credence in his claim that Bush is a fascist
This is also known as the “Appeal To Ignorance” fallacy where the person arguing claims that the lack of evidence in something is actual evidence for the thing they are claiming.
I think this is a tiny bit different. Technically Vaush's claim would be "my explanation (conspiracy) is the only good explanation therefore it should be presumed valid". The contention on the other side is that he's providing inadequate credence to more innocuous explanations for what took place with regards to the ballots. [The extended argument regarding his dismissal of alternative explanations is the claim that because he has an anti-George Bush explanation already and he wants that explanation to be true he's dismissing other explanations not on the basis of their lack of explanatory power but based on the fact they don't adequately incriminate George Bush. Vaush then started suggesting the same about them in the reverse side, claiming they didn't like his explanation not because it didn't have superior explanatory power but because it implicated George Bush in a really extreme way and they didn't like that. All in all a very stupid debate but everyone was probably a little bit right and everyone was certainly the most right with regards to Vaush. Clown calls George Bush a Fascist that's like calling a skateboard a vehicle.]
Despite what the D.GG cult thinks... Destiny isn't the smartest guy in the world. I don't think Vaush is smarter than him but Destiny definitely thinks he is a genius when he isnt
@@322aareyn you know what, I’ve heard destiny say the opposite about himself but it is true that his fans think he’s a genius. Pretty much all fans think that about their favorite content creators though. Even though destiny is an A-hole at times, I don’t think it’s a good idea to act like he’s not intelligent. He definitely has his problems but I don’t think being dumb is one of them tbh.
@@highlightrelz897 Vaush shouldn't make dumbass claims on large panels if he can't substantiate them. Obviously people are gonna pile on him if he spouts nonsense and won't back down, condescending at everyone the whole time
Im so tired of Vaush saying "I actually didnt watch..." when hes talking about any Destiny stream. We all know he watches every minute of your content. Seriously who does he think is falling for his bs lies?
SO true. It's insane how much his mannerisms and entire streaming personality is based off Destiny. I can't even watch him because it's so cringe seeing how he emulates it. To be fair its probably subconscious but if I need a dose of Destiny, I'll just watch Destiny.
@@rachelrust I'm absolutely loving seeing just how many people are waking up to this shit. It's just so shameless and cringy the way he copy/pastes Destiny entire template, from his arguments all the way to his mannerisms, accent, ect. While in the same breathe trying to declare intellectual superiority over him. Lol like dude, you're entire schtick is literally to be a 99% reskin of Destiny, minus the well thought out positions and principals. Opting instead to replace them with full blown propaganda grade rhetoric and blatantly gaslighting anyone who questions it.
I hate the fake laugh and the added "...or something" when he's purposely badly summarizing destiny's point. It's so see through as intent to poison the well. As well as the whole, "my only mistake was not being as bad as destiny" like bro come on. I like you Vaush but that's just cringe
Yeah, this is what Booksmarts means when he says Vaush tactically "misremembers" things. He either has a terrible, awful memory that also causes him to misinterpret everything Destiny said in the worst possible light, or he's being bad faith (and malding!) I think I know what's more likely.
@@gianni50725 Not only does he misremembers things, but he turns to chat and say: "chat can check the VODs, did I or did I not say the thing?". And everyone types in chat "yes" before he even finishes asking the question.
Destiny argued on twitter that a trans person not revealing they are are trans until just before sex is rape. Not having sex with them, but simply revealing you are trans in what would be the lead up to sex, is rape, that was his position, he spent two days not walking that back to the more reasonable "it's a bad idea/ a shitty thing to do"
How is he a grifter if he was so willing to defend a point that seemingly no one else agreed with (including a lot of his own audience)? Wouldn't that be the opposite of a grifter?
Not sure if trolling or just stupid. Vaush was on a Primecayes panel with no expectation of interacting with Destiny. Destiny messages Primecayes to come in. It is in fact DESTINY that has Vaush living in his head rent free, the same with Hasan.
I love how Vaush says "I never watched Destiny's debate with Lance from the serfs" then a few minutes later "did you know? In the debate destiny had with Lance from the serfs he said (something he didn't say) about name badges"
@@IBBMS i found Vaush only about a month ago. And went and watched his old, not shitty content. Now im going through and watching Destinys old content, but enjoying it more.
@@jloiben12 "dpak is a zionist" thats what im referring to. Not suprised a vaush fan doesnt care about the existence of israel lol, pro glassing it right?
The funniest part of this debate is when vaush goes "That smile isnt fooling anyone." then when everyone goes silent he goes deeper in on it LOL hes SO INSECURE
Funny how all these leftists go on about how Destiny has been pushed to the right when in reality they've just been pushed further into the left while Destiny's stance has stayed the same in the political spectrum
Yea i love this "Claim of event" then a cut to the moment in time being spoken of. Its like the Scientific Method but it got hit by a UA-cam/VOD truck and became this format
@@keynight7513 I will state that i too believe vaush dishonest and wrote him off when he admitted he would lie to further an agenda. That being said, the human memory is horrific, false memories are a real thing and everytime you remember a moment, your actually remembering the last time you thought of it. Thus it becomes distorted.
Yea that's true, however the way he talked about the panel afterwords should have been in a less emotional/bad faith state and yet is still really bad. Not to say I completely disagree with him, there are a few specific places where the editing really favoured destiny more than an uncut version of the talk but Vaush definitely handled all of this badly.
As someone who has been watching a lot of Vaush content in the past year: Has Vaush always been dishonest and I'm stupid or has this developped recently? This is really disgustingly fad faith arguing and outright deceiving.
Dishonest? No, but he has always had a bad tendency to believe something first and justify it later with things he "swears he remembers were true". The clip of his Kyle Rittenhouse take where he thinks Kyle was "gunning down black people who were fleeing from the violence" when the clip shows the exact opposite is kinda his whole deal.
You were blind. I still watch Vaush’s content, but I’ve been noticing this for at least the past year and got kicked out of his Discord for it lol he’s pretty bad faith a lot of time with people who annoy him (I started noticing this with his “wokescold” debates strawmanning people) and being conciliatory with people he thinks he can benefit from (Krystal Ball). If you notice he’s also pretty ignorant and just repeat takes from his chat or makes up things (his definition for cultural appropriation was inaccurate) while pretending to be an expert.
I'm legitimately impressed that Destiny got Vaush to walk back his claim that Destiny's a smart guy. Now, Vaush is calling Destiny a low-IQ individual? The rhetorical flattening is impressive.
Destiny pulled me out of the alt right pipeline. Vaush pulled me further to the left. Destiny pulled me back once again. Thanks my dude, I'd bring you a hot chocolate if I could.
@@magicmerls291 but when the extremeism is a direct result of the ideology? I guess extremism on its own can be considered fun- like extreme sports I suppose
Viv is generally great but, like destiny, she's really abrasive and I don't think she particularly cares about projecting any less abrasive of an image
@@DogshitArgument I dont like her autoritarian tendencies(happily its targetting fascists) but she talks about what she knows(unlike many online). The fact that her optics here was better than Vaushs(someone that prioritizes optics) is very weird
I’ve noticed this for the past year. I still enjoy his content generally, but I first started noticing it when people would disagree with his “wokescold” takes and then they’d come on stream and he’d strawman them into oblivion. They’d be like “what you said could be construed as racist because-“ then he’d jump in “SO YOU’RE SAYING NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN CRITICIZE BLACK PEOPLE?” They’d say no and he’d just say yeah it is then hang up on them and go on explaining to stream why people like that aren’t worth engaging with.
I knew he was bad faith the very first video I watched with him, his debate with Michael Tracey. Now Michael Tracey is a pretty lame grifter too, but holy fuck, I've never seen uncharitability to that degree before. I actually agreed with his position in that debate and Vaush tried to paint him as a conspiracy theorist. Ironically enough Vaush ended up being the conspiracy theorist this time.
Vaush is like an intellectual sinkhole that leads into a black hole from which honest discourse goes to die. He just walks into a room and - immediately - the IQ points start dropping.
I don't know if anyone will see this, but you genuinelly get nothing out of the Vaush and Destiny drama. Whatever ideological debate and argumentation that may exist is overshadowed by conflict.
I’m a fan of neither guy at this point and am only here due to the algorithm-but this is how I feel. I am a leftist, and I don’t think vaush and destiny have anything to discuss. Vaush doesn’t know enough about what he advocates for to debate the ideas properly without it just devolving into bullshit like every convo they have now. Destiny knows a lot about liberal economics (which I guess is their biggest real ideological difference), but his entire debate style is just dragging shit through the mud and discussing semantics (like in his conversation with Richard Wolff). So we have someone who is a play leftist who thinks he’s a philosopher, and someone who’s a neoliberal who thinks socialism is just capitalism with extra steps. I genuinely see zero value in either of them beyond debating nazis on their channels. Even the value of that is debatable. But D and V need to stop pretending this is about anything more than drama between them
Every vaush dialog tree. -brash accusation -muddies his own accusation -claims his accusation was based on something his chat told him or something he thinks he remembers reading -reasserts accusation, then asserts no one was able to beat his muddied accusation(despite easily beating his original one) so thus he's super intelligent and correct
@Troll Bait It’s sad because he seems really smart dude but he believes his own shit or something, or he’s so pumped up by chat and has forgotten what being intellectually honest means?
@Almighty Kevin clear example of what now? didnt they watch the clip together on stream ? and didnt vaush acknowledge he misremembered? this is why i made my comment. you all seem mad over nothing of actual importance.
@@Axel-iy4xs When VGG sends its people, they're not sending their best. What do you call a pattern of behavior where someone makes strident, confident claims and then walks them back when they realize they don't have the full story? Probably that of someone arrogant enough to assume that reality conforms to their worldview 100% of the time and is wholly uninterested in the actual facts of the case because they might not support the narrative. Like thinking that the rioters were "let in" to the capital by police on January 6th, or strategically forgetting the position Kyle was in, or immediately assuming the cops in that video were the ones saying "Blue Lives Matter," or believing that there's no possible explanation for the butterfly ballots in Florida other than executive meddling by officials that have no authority over the election rules of their state? Probably evidence of a lot of motivated reasoning, but I'm sure you'll forgive him the next time he "forgets."
God I was thinking the exact same thing, *sigh his immediate recycling of words and subsequent formulation into a garbled syntax must have something to do with the fact that he has intellectually outpaced himself.
1:57 "Destiny has this uncanny ability to say obviously incorrect shit, and nobody calls him out on it." Pot, I'd like you to meet my good friend, Kettle.
Vaush behaves like every single online grifter ever. He's just the flavour of the month. This aggression is necessary to project strength and hold onto his audience of impressionable kids who think loud = correct
17:14 'destiny, how arrogant do you have to be to believe that i'm not familiar with the way in which the 2000 thing went down' 10 minutes later* 'oh I'm sorry if I don't know every details of the election that happened when I was a child'
Destiny's point is really simple to understand. He's just saying that people are labeling a lot of policies as "fascist" without going into depth for WHY they are bad. It's the same thing that happens when people say a policy is "socialist". I don't understand why Vaush can't follow that. He seems like he's just spinning his points.
I think vaush has the most minutes watched of destiny clips hands down cause god damn he has modeled the way he speaks to match destiny completely.. you could probably read a text of what they said and couldn't tell between the two.
The key distinction is that if it ends with an ad-hom and includes the vocabulary of a college freshman trying to sound supa smart, then it's probably Vaush.
@@Zach0451 it's either that, or much like Crowder or Shapiro won't debate Vaush or Destiny, Vaush won't engage with Destiny because he can only (and does frequently) lose credibility. He doesn't seem interested in people who can actually challenge his positions.
I think vaush's lizard brain may have seen the writing on the wall in terms of the breadtube money river drying up now that trump has gone and it scares the piss out of him
@@jimboblordofeskimos I think it's more complicated than that. I think that now that he has no use of Destiny (being that Destiny is on the "lefty arc" and therefore makes Vaush look bad) he can act like this and look good for his fans. But since Vaush knows that he's had some pretty terrible performances lately and in contrast Destiny taking heads it seems like things are going south for Vaush and Vaush knows it.
It's not so bad over here. Most of us still want cool stuff like universal healthcare, rights and protections for minorities, and wealth redistribution. And believe it or not, there are some actual leftists in Destiny's community.
@@dt_msys454 I mean most of his audience is further left than further right, or at least, I would assume so? None of Destiny's views have ever sparked me as 'right'. Bit lame to say he's in the centre, so I say left.
Vaush appealing to his own chat for confirmation of things that he says feels really cringe every time. some amount of people in his chat are going to blindly agree regardless of what he asks in any situation and then he sees those yes's and feels justified in whatever thing it was he asked about.
@@hartyewh1 yeah that's quite a coincidence. I'm thinking like 80-90% are just the same people. I'd still say Destiny is the bigger streamer. Destiny far far surpasses Vaush on twitch. Not sure about other platforms, but willing to bet that Destiny is bigger across the board.
@She belongs to the Skreets We'll see how it plays out long term. Vaush seems to excel at making enemies even within the leftist space. People may disagree with Destiny, but they see Vaush as a bad actor .
@@MaxChillin no, smart people knew Destiny would heel turn on you lunatics. How is the right monolithic? You had every system in power on your side and you sperg'd.
@@MaxChillin I think the downfall of the left is they are trying to cram to many people in the same tent. Like Islam/Palestine and LGBT for example. The right is a monolith... and there is very little difference in logical foundations between people. Thats the thing with the left is there is no logical foundation.... its just a house of cards. Destiny is literally the only one I know that attempts to attain a study foundation. Idk... vaush is done. We will all watch his decline. And the same will go for vaush clones like xan, demon mama and the serfs
@@Chronicallyhere_09 Being fair to you, I do think *at that point* vaush was still trying to be honest. I've always made note of the several red flags as to the dangerous beliefs he owns (how i personally believe his issue with tankies/anarchists/dictators-to-be isn't their goals but their inefficacy, aka "stop saying the quiet part out loud"). Some point recently though it seems he entirely gave up on rigor and intellectual drive, but I don't watch enough of his content to tell if the rest of it reflects his shift in gears here.
Vaush is soo disingenuous. I thought it was all just memes at first..but god. He unironically used "debate tactic" As an argument against destiny even though he's the one who brought the ballot stuff.
I bet Vaush hates the editor as much as he hates Destiny at this point. I don't know how much work it takes to make the videos like this but it he makes it look like he effortlessly debunks every claim Vaush makes with just a discrete, quick little context edit. No effect, no applause breaks, no hype, just a real time "you're full of shit" compilation. So nice to watch. Destiny is the ADC of debates and got himself a challenger support with this editor. 6:10 I love how he uses the term "this is literally verbatim" here, "literally" being one of the examples used during that panel to show how words lose their meaning because enough people use them incorrectly. I don't understand how people get away with lying so blatantly about things that were said ON RECORD. One of the advantages the internet was supposed to have is that everyone can instantly find out if someone is full of shit or not. What's happening?
As a democrat with socialist leanings, I often find myself wanting to agree with the lefties who argue against Destiny. I disagree with the substance of many of Destiny's more centralist positions. But with this Vaush arc, it's been practically impossible to side with Vaush. It's ironic because he's accused Destiny of burning bridges throughout his "lefty arc," but now I feel like Vaush is the one who's disproportionately burning those bridges, asserting conspiracy as fact, attacking other panelists who dare disagree with any of his longwinded points, relying on ad hominem as a debate strategy and running off the rails in service of an agenda.
As an anarchist I find vaushs assertion that anything right leaning is bad a moronic thing to think. Clearly there's something of value the right has to say, or there wouldn't be millions with some right leaning positions. I mean, normally i reject the idea that theres a solid left or right. Seems like a state plot to divide people while the steal more assets and wealth.
@@crushinnihilism do you think there's a solid reason for capitalism right now? I mean I agree that categorically disagreeing with anyone who's right isn't a good idea, but I think the reason for most of the right's existance is that it supports the status quo and blames other things for people's problems, not because they're right
@@julianbinder2371 well capitalism is the only vaiable solution to the world's issues at the moment. Id argue that our country has been run into the ground by a quasi socialist government. This governing body has been stealing ots citizens income, and spending it how it sees fit. It consistently bails out failing corporations. When it runs low on money it just prints more of it. When other systems, such as black walstreet, become successful the state destroys them and forces integration. The state has been run more as a quasi socialist system then a real free market capitalist system. So i dont think what we need is a bigger state that steals more money for the corrupt elites to spend on mass murder campaigns in the middle east. We need a smaller state, or non at all. We need real freedon, not an opressive state with a monopoly on theft, violence, and truth.
Stop saying "These ballot are not IMPOSSIBLE to read, they're not IMPOSSIBLE to read", that's not what Vaush was saying. He stated that multiple times on the panel.
Once Upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary, over many a quaint and curious profile of a leftist boar while I read it, nearly swiping, suddenly I spied her typing "Taxes? Only the rich!" starts the griping, "Even though im 44" "Tis impossible," I muttered, "losing braincells at 44" chance of offspring: nevermore
If i'm not mistaken, Vaush did imply Trump voters are fascist in this panel. So yes? Eventhough not every republican is a Trumo supporter, alot of them still are. So no not all republicans but alot of them yes.
I love the editor of these. Super informative, providing proper context, even if it means digging inside a 10 hour stream from a week ago. Great job dude.
The usage of 'fascist' and 'fascistic' in the online left has always been so overtly manipulative towards the audience, I'm glad it got watered down so much that the breaking point is being reached. I don't actually believe anyone using that word is consciously trying to pull puppet strings in some evil way, but I do think it's a display of both extreme laziness and an indicator that the speaker is emotionally compromised by the topic at hand, and wants you, the viewer, to share in that feeling towards whatever is being labeled with it. Let's be real here, when you hear that word, it takes your mind into a place filled with certain imagery, certain historical figures, certain events, and the intention is for you to make a subtle association between that imagery/historical era and the current issue/subject at hand. The fact that there's a word that can drum up that imagery in peoples minds is a hugely valuable rhetorical weapon, and it's absolutely no mystery as to why that card has been overplayed to this point. If you want to be taken seriously as a person who can deliver principled, measured, reliable takes on topics, and still maintain your own publicly known stance on political preference, here's a rule to live by. If you're at the point where something only matches like one of the aspects that real fascist societies included, and you're thinking about using the word 'fascistic' ..... just don't. Pick a different word. Fascism was designed from the beginning as an all encompassing societal structure that dictates the way of life for every member of that society, top-down and bottom-up. It was designed as a comprehensive system that citizens are meant to turn themselves over to and find purpose in. The citizen, no matter how high or low they are on the hierarchy, was meant to see their entire existence differently from the way we see our existence in free societies. Everything they did in their lives, from the big events like finding a spouse and having a family, to their daily routine and where they went to work, was downstream from 'nation' and 'people'. You literally cannot miss it when you see it. If fascism was coming, it would be so over-the-top and in your face that it would never require some guy on the internet to tell you that what you thought you saw was one thing and what you actually saw was 'fascistic'. It certainly would not require a girl on the internet telling you that people "did a fascism" by voting in a democratic election. The truth is that we actually know what fascism is. It's so starkly different from western liberalism that any prominent threat of fascism would be an imminent transformation for every person in this country, all the way to the core of how they perceived themselves and the world around them, and how they went about their daily lives, where they draw meaning and purpose from. That's why there is this gut feeling you get that something is off when you hear this kind of event or these kinds of contemporary political figures being connected to fascism. Using the word isn't persuasive. It can be co-signed or supported only by members of an audience who share the same emotionally charged bias against whatever gets the label. The approval doesn't come from any intellectually measured place, and people who aren't engaged with that groupthink can sense this. In order to support its usage, one must share that innate emotional bias with the speaker using the label to force the mental association in the rest of the audience and take advantage of its historical subtext.
You know Vaush is obsessed with Steven when the entire panel he's constantly ad homming Steven as if the entire panel doesn't disagre with him and it's *only* Steven LMAO
I mean it's mostly a bunch of conservatives disagreeing with him and then Vivian reflexively disagreeing with him like they always do. Vivian was saying that one of her main reasons for hating Vaush was because he said the n-word but defended Destiny regardless of that, and then within minutes of that Dedtiny comes on to argue a hot take about the n-word only for her and Vaush to both have to argue against him in a 1 v the whole panel debate.
Also Destiny's been doing really badly in all of the recent Vaush drama both logically and rhetorically but he did btfo the whole panel in that debate I mentioned, to be totally fair.
@@Azraelmaximilian "Also Destiny's been doing really badly in all of the recent Vaush drama both logically and rhetorically" "I mean it's mostly a bunch of conservatives disagreeing with him"
I’ve been watching this dude since like 2011 and so many people have denied saying shit, gaslit the fuck out of him etc, but never had an editor like August who actually plays those clips in real time and you’re just like “oh shit I’m not crazy, that person actually was full of shit” god tier. Whatever he’s paying ain’t enough my dude, good shit.
Vaush is another context manipulator with little intellectual integrity or a clue about ethics. Destiny has come some way lately at seems to do make amends for certain past mistakes and has become more intellectually honest. The panel he was in there seems to be quite idiotic, but I have only seem a couple minutes of it.. The broadest definition I can come up with regarding facism is this: A facist is somebody who wants to destroy anybody (which he sees as a thing, not a human) which he can't understand or with which he does not want to agree with per default (tautology - towards which he is blind to). It has a lot to do with nihilism (active and passive). example: a man (masculine/active) can't understand what it means to be a woman (feminine/passive), and vice versa, but wants to define women as he sees fit (domination), but the women he meets don't give in; give consent, so he sets himself up to destroy them in general (direct as a chauvinist or indirect as a gay "friend"). Another example would be the most facist organisation/abstract group active in the west: Antifa... There is irony in marxist in general, that they set capital/economics as the highest (money=god, which is printed by the state - an abstraction), when a selfish concrete capitalist child (a natural human being, for which capitalism/consumerism works well when it comes to indifferent survival) sees their want as the highest. One can't directly compare the two - categorical mistake.
Don't forget, the devil is in the details.. Black/white think without a clue about dialectics often doesn't even come to the point of seeing the other side/s (abstract, concrete or details) as distinct.
OK, so let's say theoretically Google wasn't allowing trans people to use their dead name. I still don't agree with Destiny's original characterization of the situation. Lance was cringe, but I think Destiny's point wasn't the best. A employer issued name card can have someone's preferred name written on it but have the secure legal data on the magnetic swipe. I know this might be slightly disanalogous to the Google scenario, but my university lets trans people use their preferred name on their school ID, but to swipe into buildings you just use the swipe. In the event that the magnetic swipe fails, then you still have a state-issued ID that matches whatever Google has on file. I'm not a Google person, but there must be SOME way to allow trans people to use their preferred name on their name tag, and have their legal name attached to an ID number or something. I feel like Destiny was too quick to defend Google without considering whether that policy would actually be the best thing Google could do in this (theoretical) situation. I know it's Silicon Valley, but having your dead name on a visible name tag can put you in a dangerous situation if it outs you. It's also just incredibly mentally distressing for the individual. I know Destiny is trying to be reasonable/practical by taking into account Google's security system by saying "it's just how things are, it's for security purposes." But I don't think this is a valid argument if you believe we should make accommodations for protected groups. That's why we give people who wear Burkas at the airport the option to request a separate private room to confirm their identity. We don't just tell them to remove it in front of everyone because "it's just security protocols, that's just how it is." I know Google wasn't actually doing this, but I don't agree with Destiny's response to that scenario. How this relates to woke capitalism is a separate conversation, though.
this is a great point - I think he should have elaborated alot more because there's absolutely room for this in his statement that you should know about the policy and the specific ways the cards are used
It's almost like the whole panel understood and agreed with Destiny, but he had to also make the content of this video specially for the slower kid Vaush. Destiny just had to go over it again and slowly rephrase each point, so that even Vaush and his audience can understand what was actually said.
I'm not sure what Prime's goal is with these panels. The way that many of the participants speak during them is with this subtle air of authoritatively academic intellectualism. I'd be interested to hear Prime explain his purpose in putting on these panels, how he wants a viewer to perceive them, what kind of reputation he hopes to build by putting them on. For awhile I thought the panels were intended to create meaningful discussions that might help influence worldviews and/or change minds in the audience. I thought they were meant to be intellectually stimulating or at the absolute very least, I thought these panels were meant to be taken somewhat seriously by the viewer. It's become clear to me that there is a severe lack of vetting panelists, very little curation in who he brings on, and an incredibly low standard for minimum requirements to participate. I think the tipping point for me was hearing that girl say that people "did a fascism" and receive not even the slightest bit of pushback or even a noticeable reaction from other panelists. Not only is it silly on its face to say that people voting in a democratic election is 'doing a fascism' but just the actual way of speaking is so embarrassingly childish and out of place. Some of the regular panelists seem to actually put some effort into what they do, and they seem to want to maintain a good reputation that at the very least, they'd like to be taken seriously and given some level of merit that they are speaking from a perspective steeped in their own research, academic experience, and hard work that they did to reach the views they have, like MxVivian for example. For someone like Vivian, or any of the other PrimeCayes regular panelists who'd like to maintain a reputation where the audience sees them as having a baseline of intellectual merit and respectability.... maybe don't be seen on the same panels as people who say 'did a fascism' lol. Either that, or it's time for PrimeCayes to vet panelists and curate them into a group that will make a stream worth being taken seriously. Otherwise it's just becoming obvious that he's using the facade of meaningful political/social/cultural discussion to make Jerry Springer-esque spectacles and drum up attention and traffic and income for his channel. Mind you, that's coming at the cost of the reputations of everyone who participates on these panels, and the perception that a new viewer will have for everyone they are introduced to through watching the panels.
I watch Destiny. I used to watch Vaush. And while I’ll readily admit (and I think any Destiny viewer will readily admit) that Steven would benefit from a,,,,,,,gentler approach, I genuinely do not understand how people can watch Vaush’s videos, listen to his takes, and support his arguments. Destiny might be an asshole, but at least he defines his terms, supports his claims, doesn’t strawman, doesn’t appeal to hyperbole. I don’t think Vaush is a bad person, but I do think he’s a bad debater.
Vaush is a horrible person, he literally tried to suggest destiny was a right wing shill and has multiple times suggested people are fascist or racists without zero evidence. Let’s also not forget that Vaush literally said he didn’t believe he needed to live by his own principles. He’s super disingenuous
Skip to 10:50 for the "transphobia" allegation against Destiny with video context. No one is perfect in live debates etc but this was a next day recap and the Serfs debate wasn't even related to the fascism debate panel. It was simply told to a large audience confidently without proof.
EDITOR'S NOTE - in the past, whenever people mischaracterizes Destiny he rarely makes videos addressing them and usually memes or challenges people to back up those claims but people duck those conversations. However, over time, some memes have telephoned into wild stories about secret daughters, being a landlord and being a slave owner in Cuba.
From now on, whenever these accusations come up, I'm trying a new approach and I will do my best to make videos addressing and refuting them immediately.
FULL DEBATE PANEL VIDEO ►ua-cam.com/video/4WLOMnthFfg/v-deo.html
FULL SERFSTV DEBATE VIDEO ►ua-cam.com/video/4WLOMnthFfg/v-deo.html
I lub yuo July
Ngl I really appreciate all the work you do for the channel and for Destiny. Good stuff, keep up the good shit man
God tier editor
“Slave owner in cuba” where did that come from? Has destiny ever set foot in cuba?
@@quinnmargolin9438 destiny is half cuban so lefties use racist slurs against him for that. Claiming he owns slaves because he has blue eyes too even though his mum (cuban) has brown eyes.
What Vaush is saying might sound stupid but the truth is he is intellectually outpacing us at such a high rate he goes full circle.
He’s outpaced everyone to being stupid?
He’s run so far ahead of Destiny he’s now behind him
@@anonymousjohnson8051 he ran so many laps around us that it overflowed and he's back to being a baby.
Dunning Kruger effect?
🤣
The reason they couldn't define facism is because they forgot to start all the way back at feudalism.
"I'll tell you what fascism isn't"
🤣🤣
But how can we define feudalism without going all the way back to tribal governments
@@lilchromie well how can we go back to the tribes without defining dog.
Destiny could not even define facism too.
Vaush's rich streamer ego has outpaced him intellectually.
@Almighty Kevin Him and Kristal "grifter bitch" Ball are cool now 😎
Almighty Kevin I thought it was ironic how you wrote that here, on Destiny’s channel.
@Almighty Kevin yayyy more champagne socialists
Someone should draw a picture of Vaush on "butterfly ballot mountain calling someone a fascist"
If I may...
Grifter : a person who engages in swindling. A person who operates a sideshow at a fair, circus, etc. Usually gambling.
Ponzi Scheme : a form of fraudulent activity that lures investors and profits.
Catfishing : Deceptive activity where a person creates a fictional persona or fake identity for the sake of financial gains.
Vaush is living because everyone else is paying for his lifestyle. Going by this; he is clearly a full blown capitalist by his own definition of what Capitalism is.
Vaush's Capitalism: Someone who profits and lives off of other people's labor and money.
PROPS TO THE EDITOR. THIS WAS INCREDIBLY WELL MADE.
People should note that some of the clips were from after vaush already left. They also didn't show the clips where vaush clearly said the butterfly ballots were not impossible to read lol.
This is just a circle-jerk video and I'm sure there's a similar version going up on vaush's channel in response.
I await the day when we get real content again from either channel.
@@snowballeffect7812 The problem was when he first brought up the butterfly ballots. His rhetoric made it seem as if they were impossible to read then when destiny brought up that they actually aren't that difficult to read all of a sudden vaush is like of course not. Even if it was just hyperbole his hyperbole insinuated something that was very disingenuous.
The clips after vaush already left are COMPLETELY irrelevant as this is a response to vaushes video on the panel. Not just what happened during the debate.
You say that this is a circle jerk but the circle jerk is happening almost entirely on vaushes side.
@@snowballeffect7812 real content about what? Millionaire streamers grifting big bucks spewing Marxist rhetoric
Vaush saying "I was getting dogpiled by everyone in the panel" is literally the "Am I wrong? No, it is everyone else that is wrong" Simpsons meme
I pointed this out in his comment section and all the vaushites REEEEE'd so hard that they proved I was right hahaha
To be honest that meme is shit beacuse everyone else can be wrong. The problem here is that he didn´t have sufficient reason for thinking everyone else was wrong.
@@dompishen that's not really the point of the meme, of course everyone else can be wrong, but it's highly unlikely and calls for self reflection.
If you can be critical of yourself and still believe you are right then prove it! Vaush failed to do so and by default made himself look mad.
For someone who isn't engaging with Destiny any more, Vaush sure spends a lot of time misremembering arguments of a person he intellectually outpaced.
@Troll Bait he’s so full of shit that he rolled around in a circle
@Troll Bait Nascar theory I believe is the official term. If you go fast enough eventually you're gonna be behind your opponent
@Troll Bait The amount of people in Destinys community alone that believe Vaush is genuine is hilariously sad on its own. I shudder to think of idiocy it takes to be an actual Vaush fan.
As far as I'm concerned there's only two types of people that genuinely support him:
1. People that know that he's full of shit 90% of the time but see how useful and effective his rhetoric is for their political cause.
2. Hopeless socially inept idiots.
Like it's just so overtly obvious how fake and full of crap he is, that you'd have to be a completely clueless to social cues to take anything he says at face value.
@@josephjohn907 Thank you for this. It's really made me reconsider my stance on Destiny. From this day forward I'll make sure to tell everyone not to listen to Destiny because some guy on the internet said his fans were fools.
Uhm, only one channel keeps making videos about this divorced couple and it ain't Vaush. Not to mention, for some reason Destiny's community cant let go, either, as two minutes on his subreddit or discord will tell you.
I love August providing all of the context. Incredible editor. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing people proven wrong in real time. It's just fantastic work.
So many receipts!
The videos have gotten so much better with the new editor! Amazing work
imagine thinking this will matter to vaush simps.
@@user-sk4ds1rg1z imagine Destiny fans thinking parts of this panel like, 'it's just incompetence that the Florida election coincidentally went for Bush' are wins. Jesus, Destiny, in his infinite wisdom and age, has apparently progressed so far beyond us that he can rewrite history and trick those of us who were old enough to know what was going on then that our eyes were deceiving us.
@@ethancarey3922 Ah, the classic argument from "Just trust me bro" very logical
"I don't plan on talking about destiny for the next 5 years atleast" -vaush like a week ago
I feel like 5 years have outpaced 1 week, temporally.
@@dt_msys454 good meme kekW
Communists tend not to fulfill their five year plans
To be fair, Destiny joined that chat after Vaush did.
@@andersmeisner1642 no one forced vaush to stay there, no one forced vaush to """""analyze"""" the debate after the fact in bad faith..
Idk if I legit didn't want to engage or talk with someone at all for the next 5 years, Id probably leave the public panel if he came on, regardless of optics
I love that Vaush's coping mechanism for when nobody agrees with him (because he's wrong) is just assume that Destiny has some superpower that makes everyone agree/not call him out
His spite for destiny is really showing
The enemy is at the same time both incredibly powerful and secretly ridiculously weak, classic delusional thinking
That Bonus DylanBurns clip was gold.
Solid gold clip-and-ship.
Occurs at 19:03
Some might even say that Dylan is fucking BASED
Yes it was! So true in states like arkansas
I think Vaush calls people out for interrupting him while also interrupting them repeatedly more than anyone i've ever seen
@Oliver Ridderstolpe because he's furious at destiny. every time he said destiny was mad it was a projection. vaush is so ass mad that anytime destiny spoke he thought he was being attacked and wanted to attack destiny. he thinks destiny came into the panel to attack him when the first person destiny spoke to wasn't even vaush. insanity.
@Oliver Ridderstolpe I was thinking the solution for this is to have Vaush clearly state when he's finished making his point, so he can't backtrack and say people are interrupting him.
Not all interruptions are the same. Vaush still bad though.
@Troll Bait "Rhetoric and rhetorical dumps"
I think the best arguer should also be the best teacher. Vaush doesn't teach, he only argues. Destiny at least tries to teach to a small degree.
He also adlibs the whole time
Vaush is literally going through the “becoming what you hate most” Character Arc as he slowly does everything he criticized Destiny for.
VAUSH BAD VAUSH BAD
Seriously
"Destiny is so obsessed with me"
"He's a uniform demagogue"
"Destiny doesn't argue in good faith"
"He only argues to score points with his chat"
"He purges everyone who challenges him"
Vaush literally, and i mean literally did all of these himself and then accused Destiny of doing so
Slowly?
Such as?
@@AnEnemyAnenome When?
It's like he doesn't realize that VODs exist.
The thing is most people are too lazy to check vods or search for the specific timestamp so watching or hearing from others is the way they find info. And honestly a lot of people need to hear only one political aspect of a person that's fucked the write off that person completely so it's not hard to spread false info on stuff like this.
It’s similar to Trump, you can spread easily falsifiable misinformation to your fans because they’re likely to trust you and run with your narrative rather than be cautious and fact check you. It’s especially effective if what you’re doing lying about feeds into a pre existing narrative such as “Destiny is a bad person and obsessed with Vaush”
I think he knows his fans wont question his interpretation.
He knows, he wants more exposure from destiny because he’s got no one else to debate
I think he genuinely thinks he is right
This kind of editing is really the only way to combat the levels of historical revisionism going on here
It's amazing, it's just giving Vaush more rope to hang himself with the more he does it - and he can't help himself.
This editor deserves a fucking award.
Arguably though, both Destiny and Vaush said dumb shit in regards to the Scolia (or however you spell his name) part.
For Vaush, saying Scolia would send him to a death camp is absurd. That's beyond exaggeration. And for Destiny, suggesting that Vaush's saying that was fascism in action was equally dumb. That isn't even wrong. That simply has nothing to do with the concept even surrounding fascism IMO. I'd love to know how it does though, genuinely.
Still going through the video, but admittedly I might stop partway through. I'm super over the Vaush arc. I wish they'd just have a calm discussion, rather than firing shots back and forth via twitch clips. Maybe they already have, I've basically stopped watching these videos. I only watched this one because I saw "allegation" and thought it might be something genuinely bad.
While I do agree, if Vaush didn't watch the full trans name tag thing, I can almost see where he's coming from. See, editor-san showed us a clip starting at 5 minutes after the actual discussion started. It opens with this:
Lance: "They're actively forcing their employees to have to use deadnames on their ID tags, if they haven't been able to change them, for whatever reason, usually economically, through the state level. So that to me is incredibly fucked up-"
A Girl's Name: "How is that incredibly fucked up?"
Lance: "... forcing employees to use deadnames?"
Nathan's Dad: "If they haven't gotten it changed through the state? My guess is that this is probably policy almost everywhere. How do you have people who just give whatever name they want if it's not registered anywhere with a state body? I don- I'm genuinely asking you, I dont know. I haven't heard about this issue, but that sounds like common sense to me. Of course you have to go by your state registered name."
Lance: "Because- well first off, it's not something that every person can afford, right? The ability to change your name is usually something that's privileged for people who can afford to do that. Secondly, the ID tags themselves, we're not talking about verification badges, we're talking about what they have to wear as part of their like, their everyday getup. It was something that was like spread around through the alphabet union, you know?"
Mr Melina: "... o-ok... I'm gonna-"
Lance: "Your company badge doesn't mean shit. I'm not talking about like securi-"
A gnome fuck: "If you work at google, you should be able to afford a name change. OK? Number one. Ok? Number two: I'm sorry but in terms of how security and everything works, you probably need to have like actual name badges and shit, I'm sorry like, I-I dunno how you can think that you can just not do that, like...?"
As you can see, if he watched only the first 4-5 sentances, about a minute long, he might not have caught what Destiny's contention specifically was. I commented on both that video and this one that I still think Destiny had a pretty dumb take here. It's not THAT hard to find a different solution for trans employees. And even if it was, he comes off as very unsympathetic here. "How is that fucked up", "seems like common sense to me". I think this is one of those things that he'd have been more sympathetic about before the #LeftyArc.
But also, like, fuck Vaush for being that uncharitable and/or just watching one minute and assuming the rest.
@@DiddntFindANameLol I can see you are more flexible about name tags than Google :p
@@albertjohnston1026 lmao ok that was pretty fucking funny
And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is the real reason why Vaush wants to avoid talking to Destiny. Lmao
Vaush is desperately trying to reframe the panel as "wow, destiny's takes were so bad lol. I cant believe he's targeting me!". The reality is that he gave horrible takes for hours that were universally disagreed with by the entire panel.
He tried to do it during debate also. When he was condescending about going into a private room with Destiny.
Vaush was legitimately so hard to listen to during that panel. He constantly tried to reframe the discussion as Destiny coming in to attack him but Vaush was the only one constantly descending into ad homs and wasting everybody's time. Even Demonmama was disavowing Vaush's shit takes but all Vaush could do was bitch and whine at Destiny.
I'm not even here to defend Vaush, but Destiny absolutely gave shit takes and he puts them here in the first 10 minutes. Are we watching the same clips?
@@abcdefghijfghij that's NOT what Destiny and everyone were saying that's how Vaush was reframing it. The point there was that judges are a part of the democratic process as they are appointed by elected officials. If the Supreme Court rules that there wasn't fraud in that election, then there must be some evidence put forth that would discredit the Supreme Court, otherwise you would be the one in opposition to the democratic process. There was no causal link found that suggested the court wasn't to be trusted
@@abcdefghijfghij I would add to what @DaGoon said and say that in the context of the Bush election, if he submits his case to the courts via the democratic process and they rule in his favor then you cant really say it was undemocratic unless you have some additional evidence to suggest that the ruling was made undemocratically.
What would be UNdemocratic would be for Bush to find some way to subvert the courts or change the rules of the judicial system to his favor. Had he done that then Vaush would have been given a lot more credence in his claim that Bush is a fascist
It’s the “conspiracy of the gaps” argument. “If there isn’t a good explanation, it must be a conspiracy.”
This is also known as the “Appeal To Ignorance” fallacy where the person arguing claims that the lack of evidence in something is actual evidence for the thing they are claiming.
I think this is a tiny bit different. Technically Vaush's claim would be "my explanation (conspiracy) is the only good explanation therefore it should be presumed valid". The contention on the other side is that he's providing inadequate credence to more innocuous explanations for what took place with regards to the ballots.
[The extended argument regarding his dismissal of alternative explanations is the claim that because he has an anti-George Bush explanation already and he wants that explanation to be true he's dismissing other explanations not on the basis of their lack of explanatory power but based on the fact they don't adequately incriminate George Bush. Vaush then started suggesting the same about them in the reverse side, claiming they didn't like his explanation not because it didn't have superior explanatory power but because it implicated George Bush in a really extreme way and they didn't like that. All in all a very stupid debate but everyone was probably a little bit right and everyone was certainly the most right with regards to Vaush. Clown calls George Bush a Fascist that's like calling a skateboard a vehicle.]
"I think I've outpaced [insert anyone] intellectually."
Imagine ever letting such arrogant words escape your mouth.
Insert Vaush
Dispatched with alacrity
It's arrogant, sure, but doesn't it mean the same thing as just calling people dumb?
Despite what the D.GG cult thinks... Destiny isn't the smartest guy in the world. I don't think Vaush is smarter than him but Destiny definitely thinks he is a genius when he isnt
@@322aareyn you know what, I’ve heard destiny say the opposite about himself but it is true that his fans think he’s a genius. Pretty much all fans think that about their favorite content creators though.
Even though destiny is an A-hole at times, I don’t think it’s a good idea to act like he’s not intelligent. He definitely has his problems but I don’t think being dumb is one of them tbh.
Vaush: "you're SO angry"
Also Vaush: only person angry on 15 man panel
@@highlightrelz897 his fault tho. He had a dumb take and got attacked for it
Well vivan was a little annoyed, absolutely justifiably
@@highlightrelz897 he would gallop through 20 points in a 10min monologue and then get upset when ppl attack him on 3. Massive man child tantrums
@@highlightrelz897 Vaush shouldn't make dumbass claims on large panels if he can't substantiate them. Obviously people are gonna pile on him if he spouts nonsense and won't back down, condescending at everyone the whole time
Destiny came across infinitely angrier lol your perception is warped af
Im so tired of Vaush saying "I actually didnt watch..." when hes talking about any Destiny stream. We all know he watches every minute of your content. Seriously who does he think is falling for his bs lies?
SO true. It's insane how much his mannerisms and entire streaming personality is based off Destiny. I can't even watch him because it's so cringe seeing how he emulates it. To be fair its probably subconscious but if I need a dose of Destiny, I'll just watch Destiny.
@@rachelrust I'm absolutely loving seeing just how many people are waking up to this shit.
It's just so shameless and cringy the way he copy/pastes Destiny entire template, from his arguments all the way to his mannerisms, accent, ect. While in the same breathe trying to declare intellectual superiority over him.
Lol like dude, you're entire schtick is literally to be a 99% reskin of Destiny, minus the well thought out positions and principals. Opting instead to replace them with full blown propaganda grade rhetoric and blatantly gaslighting anyone who questions it.
Vaush is so obsessed with Destiny, he says he is done with him but that panel proves otherwise lmao. I guarantee he watches everything Destiny does
Vaush is a smart capitalist, copy what works and targeting a specific audience for money.
How do you think he's called ctrl + vaush PepeLaugh
I hate the fake laugh and the added "...or something" when he's purposely badly summarizing destiny's point. It's so see through as intent to poison the well. As well as the whole, "my only mistake was not being as bad as destiny" like bro come on. I like you Vaush but that's just cringe
Yeah, this is what Booksmarts means when he says Vaush tactically "misremembers" things. He either has a terrible, awful memory that also causes him to misinterpret everything Destiny said in the worst possible light, or he's being bad faith (and malding!) I think I know what's more likely.
@@gianni50725 aw heck yeah! Another booksmarts fan!
@@gianni50725 Not only does he misremembers things, but he turns to chat and say: "chat can check the VODs, did I or did I not say the thing?".
And everyone types in chat "yes" before he even finishes asking the question.
I reckon another mistake of Vaush is gaslighting girls in DMs, but he might not regret that one.
Yeah it sounds like the laugh of a suspect in a interogation room if he's guilty and laughing off his crimes with a hope that nobody knows yet.
God it's getting harder and harder to not see Vaush as a grifter. Going after destiny and taking up misleading points is a mistake.
Destiny argued on twitter that a trans person not revealing they are are trans until just before sex is rape. Not having sex with them, but simply revealing you are trans in what would be the lead up to sex, is rape, that was his position, he spent two days not walking that back to the more reasonable "it's a bad idea/ a shitty thing to do"
How is he a grifter if he was so willing to defend a point that seemingly no one else agreed with (including a lot of his own audience)? Wouldn't that be the opposite of a grifter?
@Me Gusta "no, doing the opposite of gritting doesnt make him not a GRIFTER, it makes him dumb, I'm very intelligent"
He has never been anything BUT a grifter. So disingenuous and weasly.
@@motherbat8344 what would you call sex without informed consent then?
Vaush: "Discussion of Destiny is banned on my Discord and Twitch"
Also Vaush: *uploads a weeks worth of streams talking about Destiny*
I immediately knew that rule wouldn't work
He just can't let destiny go
His career wouldn't exist without destiny
@@RobertEdwinHouse9 Vaush is the Joker to Destiny's Batman.
Not sure if trolling or just stupid. Vaush was on a Primecayes panel with no expectation of interacting with Destiny. Destiny messages Primecayes to come in. It is in fact DESTINY that has Vaush living in his head rent free, the same with Hasan.
@@TheDraco175 wtf Hasan doesn't give a shit about either of these guys
I love how Vaush says "I never watched Destiny's debate with Lance from the serfs" then a few minutes later "did you know? In the debate destiny had with Lance from the serfs he said (something he didn't say) about name badges"
Probably watched just a clip the same way he watched a clip when his community got Destiny banned.
You can not watch something but know what was said, especially as a large content creator eho is linked things
@Julie Fortune Yeah hurr durr i should just shit on Vaush and not use critical thinking durrrr
@Julie Fortune Dude I don't care about Vaush one way or the other lmfao, keep projecting shitface
@Julie Fortune Keep projecting
I found Vaush before destiny and he is starting to lose me. He did so badly on this panel and now is trying to wriggle in some huge W. Its kinda sad.
yeah I feel you. I lost all respect for Vaush after this stunt
@@AmazingGamingsh he should have gone to bed as soon as destiny came in the call. He gets so excited anytime he gets to talk to Destiny
@@AmazingGamingsh I lost all respect when he said he refuses to debate destiny anymore
Really? It took this? This was the most milquetoast of his bad takes recently
@@IBBMS i found Vaush only about a month ago. And went and watched his old, not shitty content. Now im going through and watching Destinys old content, but enjoying it more.
1:51
“I lack the juju that Destiny seems to have”
but I thought Vaush has outpaced him intellectually
The juju is a strategy/confidence thing. Not an intellectually superiority thing ;)
@@theincrediblezit8792 So is Destiny better than Roger Penrose bc Destiny can out debate him?
he also left out "zionist" juju
@@leafguy95
Well that is something I just don’t really care about in and of itself. Whether or not any one country exists or not doesn’t really matter
@@jloiben12 "dpak is a zionist" thats what im referring to. Not suprised a vaush fan doesnt care about the existence of israel lol, pro glassing it right?
Destiny's editor is talented
The dude is well paid too; way more than other youtube editors per video. According to destiny
@@morgangreen2601 he deserves it too
Vaush's editor has outpaced him
@@mypartyisprivate8693 LMAO
The funniest part of this debate is when vaush goes "That smile isnt fooling anyone." then when everyone goes silent he goes deeper in on it LOL hes SO INSECURE
The Dylan insert clip was absolute gold
19:00
*chef’s kiss*
It was cringe
@@jcavs9847 no u
@@jcavs9847 you know what else is cringe, sexually harassing women online like Vaush did for months.
@@thatindiandude4602 ???
You know destiny wins an argument when Vaush gives him the opportunity to win it again.
Stop talking destiny, vaush has outpaced you intellectually and you cant possibly comprehend his arguments anymore
🙌
Lmaooooo
@@benjamink2398
Is someone salty about the comment?
@@jloiben12 You don't think op was being sincere...
do you?
@@jloiben12 I think OP has outpaced YOU intellectually, lost a lot of good people like this 😔
If you're a fan of Vaush you need to hold him accountable for this video.
His fans/apologists are equally if not more irrational, dishonest, and willingly ignorant
I enjoy both of the characters in this arc
However vaush seems to go a bit crazy when destiny is involved
@@koontakenteater Seems like he’s trying to really bash in the idea that he doesn’t take Destiny in good faith anymore.
Just went over to his channel and its full of people defending him. But eh. Internet be like that.
Nah, Vaush's fans are literally more brain dead than he is.
“Scalia is a fascist but... I’d have to come back (with evidence because I don’t have any currently)” 😅
Source: trust me dude
Funny how all these leftists go on about how Destiny has been pushed to the right when in reality they've just been pushed further into the left while Destiny's stance has stayed the same in the political spectrum
I WISH vaush was further left
@re e The insane anprim larping as a commie who got his ass kicked by Vietnam? How's that a burn?
I like this video format, the "what the lefty says" vs "what reality is" segments are very funny.
@@keynight7513 Nah, to save face. Vaush actually fucked up pretty hard this time and his community knows it too.
Yea i love this "Claim of event" then a cut to the moment in time being spoken of. Its like the Scientific Method but it got hit by a UA-cam/VOD truck and became this format
@@keynight7513 I will state that i too believe vaush dishonest and wrote him off when he admitted he would lie to further an agenda. That being said, the human memory is horrific, false memories are a real thing and everytime you remember a moment, your actually remembering the last time you thought of it. Thus it becomes distorted.
vowsh was definitely overemotional and clearly blinded by being upset with destiny to have a decent argument
Yea that's true, however the way he talked about the panel afterwords should have been in a less emotional/bad faith state and yet is still really bad. Not to say I completely disagree with him, there are a few specific places where the editing really favoured destiny more than an uncut version of the talk but Vaush definitely handled all of this badly.
@@krieginphernjacobson TRU
All I see is that but for both of them at this point. I can't watch them talk to each other ever again it's a complete waste of time.
As someone who has been watching a lot of Vaush content in the past year: Has Vaush always been dishonest and I'm stupid or has this developped recently? This is really disgustingly fad faith arguing and outright deceiving.
It's become more popular to shit on destiny so its probably and just based on money at the end.
Dishonest? No, but he has always had a bad tendency to believe something first and justify it later with things he "swears he remembers were true". The clip of his Kyle Rittenhouse take where he thinks Kyle was "gunning down black people who were fleeing from the violence" when the clip shows the exact opposite is kinda his whole deal.
You were blind. I still watch Vaush’s content, but I’ve been noticing this for at least the past year and got kicked out of his Discord for it lol he’s pretty bad faith a lot of time with people who annoy him (I started noticing this with his “wokescold” debates strawmanning people) and being conciliatory with people he thinks he can benefit from (Krystal Ball). If you notice he’s also pretty ignorant and just repeat takes from his chat or makes up things (his definition for cultural appropriation was inaccurate) while pretending to be an expert.
I think this is a recent development, either that or I've just been biased in the past.
Yes, he has always been this dishonest.
I'm legitimately impressed that Destiny got Vaush to walk back his claim that Destiny's a smart guy. Now, Vaush is calling Destiny a low-IQ individual? The rhetorical flattening is impressive.
People can change their perceptions of people based on their actions what a suprise
Destiny: specifically addresses someone else on the panel
Vaush: See, he's obsessed with me
He kinda is obsessed lmaooo
Are we watching the same video...?
Destiny pulled me out of the alt right pipeline.
Vaush pulled me further to the left.
Destiny pulled me back once again.
Thanks my dude, I'd bring you a hot chocolate if I could.
Amen...Extremism sucks, no matter which end of the spectrum
Amen brother
@@caseypdx503 blindly following an ideology sucks. Extremism can be fun imo.
@@magicmerls291 but when the extremeism is a direct result of the ideology?
I guess extremism on its own can be considered fun- like extreme sports I suppose
Viv looked great here...that says a lot😅
Viv has improved vastly from what she once was.
Big ups.
Viv is generally great but, like destiny, she's really abrasive and I don't think she particularly cares about projecting any less abrasive of an image
@@DogshitArgument I dont like her autoritarian tendencies(happily its targetting fascists) but she talks about what she knows(unlike many online).
The fact that her optics here was better than Vaushs(someone that prioritizes optics) is very weird
@Troll Bait Although I like it, it is a trait that the majority dislikes(even though they say they do)
@@vitalepitts I appreciate abrasiveness, I don’t often agree with her but I like her
I didn't realize how bad faith Vowsh was until Destiny started calling him out
I’ve noticed this for the past year. I still enjoy his content generally, but I first started noticing it when people would disagree with his “wokescold” takes and then they’d come on stream and he’d strawman them into oblivion. They’d be like “what you said could be construed as racist because-“ then he’d jump in “SO YOU’RE SAYING NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN CRITICIZE BLACK PEOPLE?” They’d say no and he’d just say yeah it is then hang up on them and go on explaining to stream why people like that aren’t worth engaging with.
I remember when he talked to kraut and he predicted this stuff 8 months ago
The Rittenhouse debate was when I first realized how insanely dishonest he is sometimes.
True
I knew he was bad faith the very first video I watched with him, his debate with Michael Tracey. Now Michael Tracey is a pretty lame grifter too, but holy fuck, I've never seen uncharitability to that degree before. I actually agreed with his position in that debate and Vaush tried to paint him as a conspiracy theorist. Ironically enough Vaush ended up being the conspiracy theorist this time.
Vaush is like an intellectual sinkhole that leads into a black hole from which honest discourse goes to die. He just walks into a room and - immediately - the IQ points start dropping.
I don't know if anyone will see this, but you genuinelly get nothing out of the Vaush and Destiny drama. Whatever ideological debate and argumentation that may exist is overshadowed by conflict.
I’m a fan of neither guy at this point and am only here due to the algorithm-but this is how I feel. I am a leftist, and I don’t think vaush and destiny have anything to discuss. Vaush doesn’t know enough about what he advocates for to debate the ideas properly without it just devolving into bullshit like every convo they have now. Destiny knows a lot about liberal economics (which I guess is their biggest real ideological difference), but his entire debate style is just dragging shit through the mud and discussing semantics (like in his conversation with Richard Wolff). So we have someone who is a play leftist who thinks he’s a philosopher, and someone who’s a neoliberal who thinks socialism is just capitalism with extra steps. I genuinely see zero value in either of them beyond debating nazis on their channels. Even the value of that is debatable. But D and V need to stop pretending this is about anything more than drama between them
Every vaush dialog tree.
-brash accusation
-muddies his own accusation
-claims his accusation was based on something his chat told him or something he thinks he remembers reading
-reasserts accusation, then asserts no one was able to beat his muddied accusation(despite easily beating his original one) so thus he's super intelligent and correct
@Almighty Kevin is dgg ever gonna let go of whatever made them so mad during the kenosha debate
@Troll Bait It’s sad because he seems really smart dude but he believes his own shit or something, or he’s so pumped up by chat and has forgotten what being intellectually honest means?
@Almighty Kevin clear example of what now? didnt they watch the clip together on stream ? and didnt vaush acknowledge he misremembered? this is why i made my comment. you all seem mad over nothing of actual importance.
@@Axel-iy4xs When VGG sends its people, they're not sending their best. What do you call a pattern of behavior where someone makes strident, confident claims and then walks them back when they realize they don't have the full story? Probably that of someone arrogant enough to assume that reality conforms to their worldview 100% of the time and is wholly uninterested in the actual facts of the case because they might not support the narrative.
Like thinking that the rioters were "let in" to the capital by police on January 6th, or strategically forgetting the position Kyle was in, or immediately assuming the cops in that video were the ones saying "Blue Lives Matter," or believing that there's no possible explanation for the butterfly ballots in Florida other than executive meddling by officials that have no authority over the election rules of their state? Probably evidence of a lot of motivated reasoning, but I'm sure you'll forgive him the next time he "forgets."
@@wesgannon4621 you sound just as ridiculous as the terminally online lefties destiny would call "mentally ill" lmao
At this point I'm pretty sure Vaush just uses words he heard that day in his arguments.
true, plus he often mispronounces them or doesn’t use them correctly
@@indiahodgson3816 Cower dice.
I caught a bit of his stream the other day as he learned that he had been using the word "auspicious" incorrectly forever rofl. What a fucking tool.
God I was thinking the exact same thing, *sigh his immediate recycling of words and subsequent formulation into a garbled syntax must have something to do with the fact that he has intellectually outpaced himself.
Is this true? Can you give a few examples?
1:57 "Destiny has this uncanny ability to say obviously incorrect shit, and nobody calls him out on it." Pot, I'd like you to meet my good friend, Kettle.
Vaush behaves like every single online grifter ever. He's just the flavour of the month. This aggression is necessary to project strength and hold onto his audience of impressionable kids who think loud = correct
I wish I could improve on this comment buh nah I can't.
17:14 'destiny, how arrogant do you have to be to believe that i'm not familiar with the way in which the 2000 thing went down'
10 minutes later* 'oh I'm sorry if I don't know every details of the election that happened when I was a child'
Lmao this actually made me laugh
Also even without the 10 min later part. How arrogant do you have to be to assume everyone should assume you know all the things
Destiny's point is really simple to understand. He's just saying that people are labeling a lot of policies as "fascist" without going into depth for WHY they are bad. It's the same thing that happens when people say a policy is "socialist".
I don't understand why Vaush can't follow that. He seems like he's just spinning his points.
I think vaush has the most minutes watched of destiny clips hands down cause god damn he has modeled the way he speaks to match destiny completely.. you could probably read a text of what they said and couldn't tell between the two.
Vaush is just a character Ian Kochinsky plays. Destiny is Steven Bonnel as he actually is.
Except the content of Vaush's speech is more often than not just complete bullshit
Vaush has been watching Destiny for nearly a decade, makes sense why he copied all his mannerisms and way of speaking
@@jackallenproductions Ctrl + c then Ctrl + v to be exact lol
The key distinction is that if it ends with an ad-hom and includes the vocabulary of a college freshman trying to sound supa smart, then it's probably Vaush.
Anyone else think that Vaush is feeling threatened?
He feels outpaced intellectually
@@Zach0451 it's either that, or much like Crowder or Shapiro won't debate Vaush or Destiny, Vaush won't engage with Destiny because he can only (and does frequently) lose credibility. He doesn't seem interested in people who can actually challenge his positions.
I think vaush's lizard brain may have seen the writing on the wall in terms of the breadtube money river drying up now that trump has gone and it scares the piss out of him
@@badfaithact632 so you mean like anyone who can point out his very transparent bad faith? Because I think I agree with you.
@@jimboblordofeskimos I think it's more complicated than that. I think that now that he has no use of Destiny (being that Destiny is on the "lefty arc" and therefore makes Vaush look bad) he can act like this and look good for his fans. But since Vaush knows that he's had some pretty terrible performances lately and in contrast Destiny taking heads it seems like things are going south for Vaush and Vaush knows it.
I am a leftist that was so turned off by Vaush that i’d rather be here. So there’s that.
You aren’t alone.
What's wrong with here?
It's not so bad over here. Most of us still want cool stuff like universal healthcare, rights and protections for minorities, and wealth redistribution. And believe it or not, there are some actual leftists in Destiny's community.
@@dt_msys454 I mean most of his audience is further left than further right, or at least, I would assume so? None of Destiny's views have ever sparked me as 'right'. Bit lame to say he's in the centre, so I say left.
gang gang
The fact it took SO MANY people SO LONG to figure out V * ush is just a rhetorician is pretty sad and telling.
Checks out tbh
Vaush appealing to his own chat for confirmation of things that he says feels really cringe every time. some amount of people in his chat are going to blindly agree regardless of what he asks in any situation and then he sees those yes's and feels justified in whatever thing it was he asked about.
Its one of his most annoying character traits
Letter to the Editor: Thank you for doing what you do. I appreciate the effort you put into these uploads ❤️
I find it quite fitting that Vaush and Destiny currently have the exact same subscriber count on their yt channels. 353k at the time I'm typing this.
I wonder what the likelyhood is that it's 99% the same people.
It's also an unfair advantage since when Destiny cleans up his community they all trickle to Vaush's where they remain until the end of days.
@@hartyewh1 yeah that's quite a coincidence. I'm thinking like 80-90% are just the same people. I'd still say Destiny is the bigger streamer. Destiny far far surpasses Vaush on twitch. Not sure about other platforms, but willing to bet that Destiny is bigger across the board.
@She belongs to the Skreets We'll see how it plays out long term. Vaush seems to excel at making enemies even within the leftist space. People may disagree with Destiny, but they see Vaush as a bad actor .
@@ce2928 Good point. A key distinction that they have the same subs in Vaush's home base, but a big difference at Destiny's.
vaush's credibility takes a hit here
He never had credibility.
*Fascist are charismatic* _d do y-you think I look like a fascist_
👉👈
>w
@@aagh8714 😳
Damn Vaush really can’t take that L lol
Just like he can’t take criticism
@@d-extra5814 to be fair, destiny doesn't take criticism very well either, despite what he may say.
Vaush has peaked. The entire lefty arc has peaked. People are waking up to how inconsistent logically it is. Long live Destiny
Why because the left isn't monolithic like the right?
“BELTA-LOWDA!”
@@MaxChillin no, smart people knew Destiny would heel turn on you lunatics. How is the right monolithic? You had every system in power on your side and you sperg'd.
@@MaxChillin I think the downfall of the left is they are trying to cram to many people in the same tent. Like Islam/Palestine and LGBT for example.
The right is a monolith... and there is very little difference in logical foundations between people.
Thats the thing with the left is there is no logical foundation.... its just a house of cards.
Destiny is literally the only one I know that attempts to attain a study foundation.
Idk... vaush is done. We will all watch his decline. And the same will go for vaush clones like xan, demon mama and the serfs
Cringe
This finally pushed me over the edgy to stop taking Vaush seriously.
Submit to the mob even if you aren't wrong wasn't the line?
@@alswisha8519 that did push it a lot, but I still thought Vaush was trying to be honest. I clearly see now I was wrong.
@@alswisha8519 that crap was the embodiment of pandering towards his fan base. How tf can you say that and mean it lol
@@Chronicallyhere_09 Being fair to you, I do think *at that point* vaush was still trying to be honest. I've always made note of the several red flags as to the dangerous beliefs he owns (how i personally believe his issue with tankies/anarchists/dictators-to-be isn't their goals but their inefficacy, aka "stop saying the quiet part out loud"). Some point recently though it seems he entirely gave up on rigor and intellectual drive, but I don't watch enough of his content to tell if the rest of it reflects his shift in gears here.
When you've outpaced everyone intellectually, everything is self-evident
this makes my brain hurt
I think Vaush had outpaced Destiny in bad faith arguments.
Vaush is soo disingenuous. I thought it was all just memes at first..but god. He unironically used "debate tactic" As an argument against destiny even though he's the one who brought the ballot stuff.
Love how literally everyone in that panel was calling Vaush out on being incorrect and he still acts like he won in his little bubble of a stream.
He always does the "I dunked them right guys?" stream so he can get reassured in his abilitity
Vaush's insecurity is as nauseating as it is pathetic. My God he is a textbook example of a wounded grandiose narcissist.
oof, the shameless lying. Have lost a lot of respect for Vaush.
Didn't even had any reason to have a single shred of respect to begin with, again
I bet Vaush hates the editor as much as he hates Destiny at this point. I don't know how much work it takes to make the videos like this but it he makes it look like he effortlessly debunks every claim Vaush makes with just a discrete, quick little context edit. No effect, no applause breaks, no hype, just a real time "you're full of shit" compilation. So nice to watch. Destiny is the ADC of debates and got himself a challenger support with this editor.
6:10 I love how he uses the term "this is literally verbatim" here, "literally" being one of the examples used during that panel to show how words lose their meaning because enough people use them incorrectly. I don't understand how people get away with lying so blatantly about things that were said ON RECORD. One of the advantages the internet was supposed to have is that everyone can instantly find out if someone is full of shit or not. What's happening?
Seems to me vaush likes the smell of his own farts
As a democrat with socialist leanings, I often find myself wanting to agree with the lefties who argue against Destiny. I disagree with the substance of many of Destiny's more centralist positions. But with this Vaush arc, it's been practically impossible to side with Vaush. It's ironic because he's accused Destiny of burning bridges throughout his "lefty arc," but now I feel like Vaush is the one who's disproportionately burning those bridges, asserting conspiracy as fact, attacking other panelists who dare disagree with any of his longwinded points, relying on ad hominem as a debate strategy and running off the rails in service of an agenda.
As an anarchist I find vaushs assertion that anything right leaning is bad a moronic thing to think. Clearly there's something of value the right has to say, or there wouldn't be millions with some right leaning positions.
I mean, normally i reject the idea that theres a solid left or right. Seems like a state plot to divide people while the steal more assets and wealth.
@@crushinnihilism do you think there's a solid reason for capitalism right now? I mean I agree that categorically disagreeing with anyone who's right isn't a good idea, but I think the reason for most of the right's existance is that it supports the status quo and blames other things for people's problems, not because they're right
you might like Rose Wrist, he doesn't consider himself socialist, but a market socialist, he's based and more socicalistic than distiny
@@julianbinder2371 well capitalism is the only vaiable solution to the world's issues at the moment. Id argue that our country has been run into the ground by a quasi socialist government.
This governing body has been stealing ots citizens income, and spending it how it sees fit. It consistently bails out failing corporations. When it runs low on money it just prints more of it. When other systems, such as black walstreet, become successful the state destroys them and forces integration. The state has been run more as a quasi socialist system then a real free market capitalist system.
So i dont think what we need is a bigger state that steals more money for the corrupt elites to spend on mass murder campaigns in the middle east. We need a smaller state, or non at all. We need real freedon, not an opressive state with a monopoly on theft, violence, and truth.
@@crushinnihilism “Socialism for the rich, rough, rugged individualism for everyone else”
1:43 "that was a bloodsports panel" my dude v-man turned it into a bloodsports panel.
Bloodsports need to come back
The funny thing is it was so chill once he left
Funny how Vaush is talking all this shit but he knows he wouldn't pull up on Destiny in the wildy.
Stop saying "These ballot are not IMPOSSIBLE to read, they're not IMPOSSIBLE to read", that's not what Vaush was saying. He stated that multiple times on the panel.
45:53 - literally sargon's "why you should not debate the left" after getting BTFOd ironically by vaush himself
I agree with Vaush here tho. These kinds of debate panels are a total shit show.
Once Upon a midnight dreary,
while I pondered weak and weary, over many a quaint and curious profile of a leftist boar
while I read it, nearly swiping,
suddenly I spied her typing
"Taxes? Only the rich!" starts the griping, "Even though im 44"
"Tis impossible," I muttered, "losing braincells at 44" chance of offspring: nevermore
Nowhere near as good as the original Edgar Allen /pol.
Vaush: I didn't watch the Lance vs Destiny debate
Vaush: SO IN THE LANCE VS DESTINY DEBATE
When you ask what is fascist, are you looking for answers from hitler, Giovanni Gentile or Benito Mussolini ?
Or are you just saying any republican ?
They literally just mean right wing
That’s such a shit way to describe fascism lol
If i'm not mistaken, Vaush did imply Trump voters are fascist in this panel. So yes? Eventhough not every republican is a Trumo supporter, alot of them still are. So no not all republicans but alot of them yes.
I love the editor of these. Super informative, providing proper context, even if it means digging inside a 10 hour stream from a week ago. Great job dude.
The usage of 'fascist' and 'fascistic' in the online left has always been so overtly manipulative towards the audience, I'm glad it got watered down so much that the breaking point is being reached.
I don't actually believe anyone using that word is consciously trying to pull puppet strings in some evil way, but I do think it's a display of both extreme laziness and an indicator that the speaker is emotionally compromised by the topic at hand, and wants you, the viewer, to share in that feeling towards whatever is being labeled with it.
Let's be real here, when you hear that word, it takes your mind into a place filled with certain imagery, certain historical figures, certain events, and the intention is for you to make a subtle association between that imagery/historical era and the current issue/subject at hand.
The fact that there's a word that can drum up that imagery in peoples minds is a hugely valuable rhetorical weapon, and it's absolutely no mystery as to why that card has been overplayed to this point.
If you want to be taken seriously as a person who can deliver principled, measured, reliable takes on topics, and still maintain your own publicly known stance on political preference, here's a rule to live by. If you're at the point where something only matches like one of the aspects that real fascist societies included, and you're thinking about using the word 'fascistic' ..... just don't. Pick a different word.
Fascism was designed from the beginning as an all encompassing societal structure that dictates the way of life for every member of that society, top-down and bottom-up. It was designed as a comprehensive system that citizens are meant to turn themselves over to and find purpose in. The citizen, no matter how high or low they are on the hierarchy, was meant to see their entire existence differently from the way we see our existence in free societies. Everything they did in their lives, from the big events like finding a spouse and having a family, to their daily routine and where they went to work, was downstream from 'nation' and 'people'.
You literally cannot miss it when you see it. If fascism was coming, it would be so over-the-top and in your face that it would never require some guy on the internet to tell you that what you thought you saw was one thing and what you actually saw was 'fascistic'. It certainly would not require a girl on the internet telling you that people "did a fascism" by voting in a democratic election.
The truth is that we actually know what fascism is. It's so starkly different from western liberalism that any prominent threat of fascism would be an imminent transformation for every person in this country, all the way to the core of how they perceived themselves and the world around them, and how they went about their daily lives, where they draw meaning and purpose from. That's why there is this gut feeling you get that something is off when you hear this kind of event or these kinds of contemporary political figures being connected to fascism.
Using the word isn't persuasive. It can be co-signed or supported only by members of an audience who share the same emotionally charged bias against whatever gets the label. The approval doesn't come from any intellectually measured place, and people who aren't engaged with that groupthink can sense this. In order to support its usage, one must share that innate emotional bias with the speaker using the label to force the mental association in the rest of the audience and take advantage of its historical subtext.
Vaush lacks a shred of brevity.
You know Vaush is obsessed with Steven when the entire panel he's constantly ad homming Steven as if the entire panel doesn't disagre with him and it's *only* Steven LMAO
I mean it's mostly a bunch of conservatives disagreeing with him and then Vivian reflexively disagreeing with him like they always do. Vivian was saying that one of her main reasons for hating Vaush was because he said the n-word but defended Destiny regardless of that, and then within minutes of that Dedtiny comes on to argue a hot take about the n-word only for her and Vaush to both have to argue against him in a 1 v the whole panel debate.
Also Destiny's been doing really badly in all of the recent Vaush drama both logically and rhetorically but he did btfo the whole panel in that debate I mentioned, to be totally fair.
@@Azraelmaximilian lol no
@@Just_Red_ no to the recent Vaush-Destiny drama or no to the n-word panel?
@@Azraelmaximilian "Also Destiny's been doing really badly in all of the recent Vaush drama both logically and rhetorically"
"I mean it's mostly a bunch of conservatives disagreeing with him"
I’m disappointed in Vaush, I thought he was better than this.
Honestly I think that Destiny has outpaced Vaush intellectually.
Yup
I’ve been watching this dude since like 2011 and so many people have denied saying shit, gaslit the fuck out of him etc, but never had an editor like August who actually plays those clips in real time and you’re just like “oh shit I’m not crazy, that person actually was full of shit” god tier. Whatever he’s paying ain’t enough my dude, good shit.
the person in chat saying that Theresa LePore (creator of the butterfly ballot) caused the Iraq war LMAOO
That's fucking hilarious lmao
That would be like saying old people who accidentally voted for bush during the election caused the iraq war lmao
Vaush is another context manipulator with little intellectual integrity or a clue about ethics. Destiny has come some way lately at seems to do make amends for certain past mistakes and has become more intellectually honest. The panel he was in there seems to be quite idiotic, but I have only seem a couple minutes of it..
The broadest definition I can come up with regarding facism is this: A facist is somebody who wants to destroy anybody (which he sees as a thing, not a human) which he can't understand or with which he does not want to agree with per default (tautology - towards which he is blind to). It has a lot to do with nihilism (active and passive). example: a man (masculine/active) can't understand what it means to be a woman (feminine/passive), and vice versa, but wants to define women as he sees fit (domination), but the women he meets don't give in; give consent, so he sets himself up to destroy them in general (direct as a chauvinist or indirect as a gay "friend").
Another example would be the most facist organisation/abstract group active in the west: Antifa...
There is irony in marxist in general, that they set capital/economics as the highest (money=god, which is printed by the state - an abstraction), when a selfish concrete capitalist child (a natural human being, for which capitalism/consumerism works well when it comes to indifferent survival) sees their want as the highest. One can't directly compare the two - categorical mistake.
Don't forget, the devil is in the details.. Black/white think without a clue about dialectics often doesn't even come to the point of seeing the other side/s (abstract, concrete or details) as distinct.
vaush has always done this though. if you didn't notice this years ago, you should probably wonder why.
Everyone say thank you to based Destiny editor.
Hey editor, the bonus Dylan clip made me v happy :)
Standing ovation for this editor 👏👏👏
OK, so let's say theoretically Google wasn't allowing trans people to use their dead name. I still don't agree with Destiny's original characterization of the situation. Lance was cringe, but I think Destiny's point wasn't the best. A employer issued name card can have someone's preferred name written on it but have the secure legal data on the magnetic swipe. I know this might be slightly disanalogous to the Google scenario, but my university lets trans people use their preferred name on their school ID, but to swipe into buildings you just use the swipe. In the event that the magnetic swipe fails, then you still have a state-issued ID that matches whatever Google has on file. I'm not a Google person, but there must be SOME way to allow trans people to use their preferred name on their name tag, and have their legal name attached to an ID number or something. I feel like Destiny was too quick to defend Google without considering whether that policy would actually be the best thing Google could do in this (theoretical) situation. I know it's Silicon Valley, but having your dead name on a visible name tag can put you in a dangerous situation if it outs you. It's also just incredibly mentally distressing for the individual. I know Destiny is trying to be reasonable/practical by taking into account Google's security system by saying "it's just how things are, it's for security purposes." But I don't think this is a valid argument if you believe we should make accommodations for protected groups. That's why we give people who wear Burkas at the airport the option to request a separate private room to confirm their identity. We don't just tell them to remove it in front of everyone because "it's just security protocols, that's just how it is." I know Google wasn't actually doing this, but I don't agree with Destiny's response to that scenario. How this relates to woke capitalism is a separate conversation, though.
True
pretty great point. I think if destiny heard that he's reasonable enough to agree.
there is. they can. it’s for employees of contracted companies on google campuses. not google employees.
this is a great point - I think he should have elaborated alot more because there's absolutely room for this in his statement that you should know about the policy and the specific ways the cards are used
That's a good point.
It's almost like the whole panel understood and agreed with Destiny, but he had to also make the content of this video specially for the slower kid Vaush. Destiny just had to go over it again and slowly rephrase each point, so that even Vaush and his audience can understand what was actually said.
I'm not sure what Prime's goal is with these panels. The way that many of the participants speak during them is with this subtle air of authoritatively academic intellectualism. I'd be interested to hear Prime explain his purpose in putting on these panels, how he wants a viewer to perceive them, what kind of reputation he hopes to build by putting them on.
For awhile I thought the panels were intended to create meaningful discussions that might help influence worldviews and/or change minds in the audience. I thought they were meant to be intellectually stimulating or at the absolute very least, I thought these panels were meant to be taken somewhat seriously by the viewer.
It's become clear to me that there is a severe lack of vetting panelists, very little curation in who he brings on, and an incredibly low standard for minimum requirements to participate. I think the tipping point for me was hearing that girl say that people "did a fascism" and receive not even the slightest bit of pushback or even a noticeable reaction from other panelists. Not only is it silly on its face to say that people voting in a democratic election is 'doing a fascism' but just the actual way of speaking is so embarrassingly childish and out of place.
Some of the regular panelists seem to actually put some effort into what they do, and they seem to want to maintain a good reputation that at the very least, they'd like to be taken seriously and given some level of merit that they are speaking from a perspective steeped in their own research, academic experience, and hard work that they did to reach the views they have, like MxVivian for example.
For someone like Vivian, or any of the other PrimeCayes regular panelists who'd like to maintain a reputation where the audience sees them as having a baseline of intellectual merit and respectability.... maybe don't be seen on the same panels as people who say 'did a fascism' lol.
Either that, or it's time for PrimeCayes to vet panelists and curate them into a group that will make a stream worth being taken seriously. Otherwise it's just becoming obvious that he's using the facade of meaningful political/social/cultural discussion to make Jerry Springer-esque spectacles and drum up attention and traffic and income for his channel. Mind you, that's coming at the cost of the reputations of everyone who participates on these panels, and the perception that a new viewer will have for everyone they are introduced to through watching the panels.
I watch Destiny. I used to watch Vaush. And while I’ll readily admit (and I think any Destiny viewer will readily admit) that Steven would benefit from a,,,,,,,gentler approach, I genuinely do not understand how people can watch Vaush’s videos, listen to his takes, and support his arguments. Destiny might be an asshole, but at least he defines his terms, supports his claims, doesn’t strawman, doesn’t appeal to hyperbole.
I don’t think Vaush is a bad person, but I do think he’s a bad debater.
Vaush is a horrible person, he literally tried to suggest destiny was a right wing shill and has multiple times suggested people are fascist or racists without zero evidence. Let’s also not forget that Vaush literally said he didn’t believe he needed to live by his own principles. He’s super disingenuous
@@fartherdude5062 FAIR.
Vaush's Destiny ban is like Dwight shunning Andy: "Unshun...reshun... "
Lol underrated comment
i love you
@@Blanksmithy123 For once I actually agree with this type of comment, definitely underrated lol
Regardless of anyone’s opinion we can all admit the panel got sacrificed for the vaush and destiny debate/content
Oh man, so disappointed in vaowsh. Smh
this editing is god tier
You can tell that Vaush knows he's being dishonest.