$700,000.00 Engine Block!! We Did It But It Took 2 Years!
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- We went down the road of producing blocks, but with all the development, learning and struggles it took more time than you could ever imagine and damn near broke us in the process.
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I’ve been around CNC machining a long time and I’ve seen allot of engine blocks made. My experience has taught me that when your venturing down a road that you know is going to come with a huge learning curve, you try to mitigate loses by being more proactive. One of the first things I would have done after I had all of my machining paths simulated and proven, would be to glue together high density styrofoam blocks to the exact size the aluminum blocks would come in at.
This won’t simulate material movement during machining but it will give you an opportunity to prove out your machining without sacrificing material.
I would imagine there would also be a Rough, Semi Rough, SemiFinish and then finish machining process. Each phase would have a heat treat process in between to relieve stresses inherited during machining. Stress reliving the machined block only once is not enough. When you’re removing that much material there is going to be allot of movement.
The best advice I would give is, don’t use expensive material to prove your program. It’s too costly…
100 % Accurate on the Heat Treatments . Gr8 Advice 4 these guys , hope they took it on board . Do it right everytime . No shortcuts . Probably require a couple of these machines & engines on the go at any one time .
We need a video explaining the relationship between Steve and Tom, who is making what and how did it all come to be.
Would be good to know
Right because Steve says in his videos hes made this and my new machine etc. Not taking anything away from Steve by any means,hes a genius in my eyes
They did a q&A last year where they talk about how they met.
@@scottterwiel ok..have to look it up..haven't been watching them for long. They're both amazing though
Very good idea especially for the new subscribers. I've been watching both for over a year and I'd like a recap.
Great job guys, 45 years in the machining field here. Deal with material stress relieving during machining constantly. I would have machined leaving about .200 on every surface then heat treat and inspect for how much movement occurred. After discerning a range of movement in several blocks I would try and reduce the amount of material left to speed up the finish process.Anyone would have had to digest the cost of learning like you did.I'm really impressed!
I worked at Rowe Foundry for 36 years. I was the Core Room Supt when I retired after 36 years. We made thousands of castings for HAAS CNC machines. They gave two HAAS CNC machines to Vincennes University when I was still working there. I mentioned to an executive from Hass that was a nice gesture by them to give the school over 2.4 million dollars' worth of machines. The man leaned into me and said $35,000. I asked him what he meant, and he said they cost 35,000 to make one and they sell for 1.2 million bucks. I looked at him and then looked at our plant manager and said "We need to raise our Prices!"
BUT....how many man hours and scrap parts, re engineering and also purchasing specialty tooling did they go through to get to a quality product that could be sold. They took the risk and spent the time and money to get to the final product. they DESERVE the reward.
Raw materials and man hours to assemble alone would equate to over $35k. Now $350k would be more realistic.
Haas cnc machines are the cheapest a similar mazak... would be 750k compared to a haas at 100k... literally the cheapest haas.. mill is 40k.... comparable to 300k mazak..
As a prototype cnc machinist it's amazing how many hurdles you have to overcome for even easy products when you are trying to make them at a high level. It is almost easier to make one versus 10 when you are making a complex piece of billet at this level.
For sure!! The cnc machines I inspect parts for you can drive 3 city busses through! Rocket parts. 🚀 this is way cool to see on hot rods!! My 2 worlds colide!
@@mostlymotorized i meant it more like 1 is less work but if you dont learn everything from that one part it can take you several "easy" parts to learn from. essentially this is what tom describes in the video but i had already commented. Tom had already made one block and had made concessions to get it going and in the car but now that he has tried to make 10 there are new hurdles to cross on each one you didn't encounter on the last one.
As a Swiss machinist I can spend at a minimum of a full 10 hour day to program, setup, and get a good part, on a simple part.
As a lead footed hillbilly, I can break it if itll break.
I have been doing 5 axis aviation and industrial components for 15 years and still I find parts like these exciting and terrifying at the same time. Well done! CNC machining can be nerve wracking job.
Congrats,
Tom my Grandfather always told me "anything worth doing....is worth doing right !" You did this right and I have a real feeling it will go down as one of the greatest advancements in V-8 technology since the 265 chevy v-8....
It would be great if you and Steve did a video together explaining how it came to be that you are machining SMX blocks.
And what an SMX block is. I mean I can see that it is an aluminum, pushrod (I think) V8. But you have to assume that some viewers (like me) won't have seen any prior videos and so don't know anything at all about what the engine is intended to be.
@@RandomGuyDan its Steve Morris I guess the x is for extreme its basically a something close to a hemi but I think the change the cam centerline
@@RandomGuyDan It is an engine Steve Morris developed loosely influenced by the 481X platform. It is his own design and unlike the 481X it is fully water jacketed.
@@larrygreen8092 The X is a reference to the 481X that he used as inspiration for the SMX.
@@larrygreen8092The X stands for that a lot of the basic engine architecture is based on the 481-X design
I program CNC machines as a job using Mastercam cadcam software so I understand what you have gone through. This is why a shop will always quote a large cost for 1 part and each 100 parts after get cheaper, once you have the process figured out each part after gets easier to produce therefore costs less.
I'm so looking forward to moving into this industry as I start at my local community college in August. After 18 years as a horseshoer, learning how to program CNC machines will be much safer and rewarding career as I get older.
Get in a shop why college
@@robertlawler1387 education is not a bad thing.
@@robertlawler1387shops pay for just learning all day?
@@robertlawler1387 most shops will just have him pushing the green button, take a finished part out, and load a blank in. They already employ people to write the code
Good Luck, you probably made more as a ferrier. CNC operators make damn near nothing. And, Fusion 360 generates G-code almost autonomously. Despite what you might believe manual machinist is higher paying and more stable, as AI slowly kills designer and programmer jobs.
I hope folks are paying attention to this - it's a great example of why custom machined parts are so darned expensive.
Excellent presentation, btw, very informative.
Making it on a throwaway machine is the most impressive part of this 😅 great accomplishment
Best comment
Mazak all the way
All those gcode lines huh?
Within 2 thou 🤣 I really hope he meant 2 tenths.
@@ZacharyTelesca A thou is smaller than a tenth?
I work in the tooling industry and even people inside the business often underestimate how hard and therefore expensive this stuff is. Taking on a project like this without prior experience is very brave!
This menatality of just put a program in a cnc and push the green button is all to common. and yes i am a Machinist (CNC side)
Glad to see you are finally getting this done. Sorry you had to go through all this. I got to learn my lessons about new machine tool purchases and turn-key projects on someone else's dime before going out on my own. Very few people understand the costs of these things. I've got a new lathe on the way and just transportation and rigging will cost me over $6k. Initial tooling will be three times that. Fluids and such are a few thousand more. And then it costs money day to day to run.
Those blocks are beautiful Tom. Congratulations, you finally have a finished, ready to build block. Awesome👍
I didn't know Tom (You) and Steve were so tightly involved, cool! I appreciate the crazy amount of work and innovation. Great example of individual effort and the spirit of entrepreneurship! You're truly someone to look up to (Steve as well).
Tom bought the first SM designed and machined block... They are best of buds. 2 awesome people
Very cool Tom! Since I started at Diamond I've learned a lot. It's crazy knowing how much goes into machining a piston I couldn't image setting up a new block grogram. it's cool to see that you've completed that goal, thanks for the behind the scenes.
Ok e poured a ton of pistons and have run them through a rough cut machine tons.
@@garrypeek897 not sure what you just said there. But I run Multus machines, I start with a blank forging and end with a finished piston on a single machine. The only machining that has to be done after is turning the skirt down a few thousandths. I was blown away at the process. Most shops I've worked at had a different machine for each cut with ten different people touching the part. Way less opportunity for error when it's all done in one machine but also a lot harder to program. I thought doing every process on a piston in one machine was awesome let alone on an entire block. 🤯
Working for a piston maker HAS to be a hot rodders dream.
@@robertwest3093 I turned down $2 per hour more at Pepsi and my brother called me crazy. Lol I told him my passion is worth 2$ an hour.
Quick question. How much do you guys do gas porting these days? Seems like more and more people switch to gas ported rings.
Thank you Bobby. So grateful for your patience and support so blessed Thank you Gentleman 🙏🌍🌏🌎 upmost Respect always. Thank you God bless to all so happy.
Dedication and drive is what makes things happen. You all would not be beat by a machine, so, you made it work as it would not defeat you and your goals. This is how everything works when proper.
Those new blocks look like jewelry! They're beautiful. Nice job, Guys.
Tom I am QI at a prominent aerospace company and I inspect aluminum rocket parts and God dammit I'd do some ultra sound on your blocks for free!!
Do a hardness rockwell or brunel test on it before and after heat treat to prove the process has been throughly done to all parts and area’s of the material would be good to see ✌️👍
I would curious to know if in the process of developing the smx if Steve ever had ultrasound done. Sounds pretty interesting
@@jdshanahan4215 The last time Steve had an ultrasound done, Kyle was born a few months later. LOL I agree though, it would be interesting to know what all this fancy testing would show!
@@warrenmichael918 😂😂 now that gave me a laugh this morning. Thanks for that.
That would depend on what they start with. If it's forged billet block it will be nigh-on fully dense, except perhaps on the center line of what once was the center line of the continuously cast block before forging. But that imaginary original as-cast center line was where the lifter valley now sits, so most of the potentially affected material will be removed anyway.
Now I have to admit my experience is with ultrasonic inspection of steel, rather than aluminum (actually aluminium where I'm from) but you'd be looking at flaws less than 1/32" or even below 1/64". Bring a 10 MHz probe at the very least, if not 16 MHz. Phased array if you have.
If we're talking NDT, a dye penetrant test would probably make more practical sense than trying to do a meaningful ultrasound.
SUNCOAST in Daytona is a heat treating Master. My best friend Jim Saulsbury worked there for years until he passed. Miss you every day Brother...
It’s called a learning curve! Can’t wait to see the finished product in action on the street and strip!👍
I think the Aluminium going 'square' he mentions is when the atoms change when heated and held at a certain temperature they go from Body Centre Cubic to Face Centre Cubic or the other way around, I think one atom moves out, I seem to remember that from welding college 40 years ago.
I'm a cnc machinist and lead programmer at my shop. I love it. And yes software is super expensive and a part this complex takes tons of time. Congrats on getting it done brother
As am I. Originally trained and certified as a Toolmaker. The issues they are dealing with has to do with thorough knowledge of machining. Factory V8's were originally made from cast iron because of the cost and how stable cast iron is, as cast. Dealing with aluminum, especially heat treated aluminum takes knowledge of the materials. Rough machine after Heat treat, and then finish machine last. Because Aluminum moves more than any other material, especially heat treated.
My old boss bought a much smaller HAAS second hand, but it only had 160 hours use on it. It changed his output greatly.
It's so good to have some tech talk that pushes my boundaries.
Awesome video yet again! I truly admire the comradery shown between everyone which resulted in success in the racing and "having extreme fun" industry. The inspirational aspect of it all is how it's not just a business thing, but something that developed friendships into a big family. 👍🏼💯🇬🇺
Cool , now we have more engines to spread the sick second need for speed , I love it. Maybe you can sell mini motors to us who cannot get the full size units .
So glad to finally see you guys getting these dialed in after all the struggles in the beginning. Cant wait to see one of them together and on the dyno!
Excellent determination and persistance has produced a one of a kind engine block that will kill the competition. Congratulations you guys!
Glad to hear haas took care of you, this is new territory for them complexity. When it close down to it that’s probably the easiest part haha. Work holding, moving material,loading the machine, Supporting infrastructure, raw materials, coolants, oils, tooling, inspection tools. I could go on! A good process is something your always tracking down and improving on.
Nice that Steve and You got figure this out and have the passion to follow that dream to create the product
hi Tom good to se you had the balls to follow this project through to completion .many would of got rid of that machine .and went in a different direction well done to you and your team around you
Good to hear haas actually made the situation right, and it will all pay off.
Thank you Tom for continuing to invest into motorsports, keep up the great work bro 😎🤙🇺🇲 much love from Pennsylvania 🥳
I will watch every video you make on this subject.
You said it, not for the faint of heart. Few know how much that actually takes
I just have to say between you and your team and Steve and his crew are kicking some major ass in development and processes to get where you guys are today! Not to mention the time and money which I'm sure will pay the bills in the coming future. My hats off and cudos!! You guys are the best in my book. Thank you for your kick ass videos 👍😎
Hope one of these blocks is going to Dennis Taylor for a certain 55 Chevy.
I love watching all of you guys and gals keep up the great content and Tom just wanted to let you know I purchased one of those $700,000 T Shirts can't wait to receive it will send you a picture when I receive it Thank you Tom...
Didn't think I would watch the whole video let alone five minutes but I did great stuff guys👍👍👍👍👍
Instantly subbed, when I see the first stipulation is no politics in comments,, love it!!!!
A 700,000 dollar block,,😮 I'm guessing a block at that price will easily handle nitro, and a twin charger setup, with a 400 shot of nitrous at the same time...😂😂😂 for around 4-5 thousand hp...
It only needs two turbos to make that 5,000hp and can be driven on the street between race tracks. That is why they build these engines. I'm not sure what the smx big block costs, but his first Sml LS engines were going for about $100,000 each as a complete engine.
No doubt between you & your men & Steve it will be a awesome piece of work 👍
As a former construction Super,on one particular job I was required to hire and maintain an on the job site ultrasound inspector, that literally did nothing all day 95% of the time. 1 man billing us thousands per day to sit in my AC controlled conex. Nice guy, brought me a lot of coffee & donuts. : ) (some of you will get that) Despite his enormous cost, that single man made damn sure that one of the world's busiest airports is safe for whatever you crazy people can throw at it. He did ultrasound inspections on every single weld. He found a few with flaws that would have have / could have succumb to natural forces in time. Their time & effort would greatly benefit by such an inspection. Just call your bank first. :P
Thank you Tom, I was wondering about these blocks and who was designing them and machining them. It sounds like a bigger deal than I imagined. Congratulations.
I’m retired tool and die maker, also program and run cnc machines with 4 axis.
You have done a fantastic job and as a result a great SMX was born ❤❤
I know they explained the system, it would be amazing to see it start to finish!
Lesson on perseverance. Congrats
Congratulations on sticking with it through all the heartache and finally getting there!!!
Thank God you’re finally getting blocks and Hass came through and helped you two thumbs up I know it’s been a long battle and stupid money so stoked for you
I like the way Steve goes about it more. Multiple machine, yes. Do I trust those machines more? Absolutely yes I do
Heat treat is time at temp. Then it depends on quench temp 70-99 100-143 209-212 degrees. Quench temp depends on process afterwards ie forge, machine etc etc. Then the type of quench also water, glycol and carbonate. Age process for stress relief and dehydration is another story
Getting Better All The Time!
congrats, what an awesome opportunity. glad its all worked out and now you can work it off!
I've been a CNC machinist for 30+ years and this job would a major nightmare.
Congratulations Tom to you and your whole team! That's a real and hard won achievement. As an engine machinist, I agree, those blocks are truly a work of art. You should be proud.
I had a client. Made alot of money doing cnc stuff. He started years and years ago. He's now in his 70s. I was able to watch how stuff worked. And it takes alot more than measurements. And hitting a button. Blew my mind.
I'm glad that finally worked out!
Cant wait to see how it does. Hope it turs out to be quite special. Game changing. Good luck.
An acetone bath with dry ice will freeze to -180°F . when the block is submerged into the bath and when it the metal has been soaked it will quit bubbling
So Steve machines the cylinder heads with his machines and you guys have been working on the blocks i take it then. It is a badass engine for sure an when it comes to light i bet its going to take off an many racers are going to be ordering them. Thanks for sharing Tom. Be safe guys.
Yeah Steve said in one of his vids that he was machining the heads and someone else was machining the blocks.
Cool. That is one bad ass engine.
Quite a project and I think you can say Steve's design is amazing. Hard work vision, MONEY and patience are being understated by you I imagine. It is really hard to pay for a machine that does not work. I have been in the machine building business since the eighties and have seen and been a part of many of this type of work (prototype initial builds). It is not for the faint of heart. Kudos for your follow through.
So are you doing the SMX and SML on that machine and Steve does the heads for both block?
And this is why im trying to hit the lottery, a flat plane 7.3 diesel isnt gonna be cheap at all
When you have to make only 30-40 parts to recoup your cost, you aren't doing too bad in the machining world.
Finally got that lemon to work.
Glad for you.
I can't even remember all the ways to use a speed square, and here yall are making big moves.
Tom, great work! I would love to see that opperation if the chance presented itself. I own the cnc machine shop on williams lk called Crimson Precision.
Wow what a beautiful engine block. Impressive. Hopefully it pays off for y’all, hard work usually does, good luck!
Great to see an update on this.
Very nice guys. I really hope this pans out for ya'lls in the long run!
I'ma CNC Machinist Contractor with 15 Years Experience.... Last Contract I was Production Machinist in Flint Michigan for General Motors ...
This is like watching breaking bad version of engine building. This is awesome.
Congratulations on getting it all figured out. Hope itll pay for itself and be a huge asset
I watch Steve do welding on aluminum blocks and wonder what the impact of the heat is on an already annealed and stress relieved block.
Congratulations, what a massive achievement!
Their beautiful!
What a truly incredible journey!
Congratulations you guys I hope that you sell alot of them and I can't wait to see it in a car and running down track
Now that was a ton of work, literally. Great Job Tom!
I would like to note sometimes they put bracing inplace for heat treating to help it from moving around, maybe a shaft in the cam tunnel then heat treat and remove shaft after heat treat. Also you could look into vibratory stress releaving. Have used that on pump frame weldments.
Have you looked into cryo treating. It does wonders for some parts.
Last, which should have been what you did first, you should be laser scanning a proven block and overlaying your cad model to see how close the model is to the proven block. It would have lit up the lifter bore issue before it became a problem. It catches stuff you cant measure easily.
A shaft in the cam tunnel would either rattle around at temperature if steel (differing CTE), or likely warp if aluminum. And in either case the extra thermal mass would interfere with the HT process. Better to leave extra material, rough and stress relieve, then go through careful semi and finish cutting.
Reality is that even with all the care possible, the block will move a tiny bit more with actual assembly and bolt torquing, then with the variable temps when running. Have to account for that movement with tolerances.
Having set up a 4 machine cnc shop, doing the programming, setup, and running of said machines, I feel your pain. Looking forward to see these run in anger!
Remember, as you are machining, you are inducing stresses. Virgin aluminum will de-stress on its own over time! Flashbacks to my time at Franklin Engine with oil pump bodies changing dementions overnight in the totebox.
Congrats guys! All the best going forward!
Yes, "Dead Nuts" is a technical CNC term lol. As a certified CNC tech myself I can understand what it takes to do something like this. Great job getting it to this point.
nasa tolerances
That is awesome!
Would really like to see the haas in action on one of those blocks
this is a dream job to work at a shop like this would love to have some day
Good job finally getting to this point
Heat Treatment on Blocks . My understanding was a couple of heat treatments were preferred ? Could you guys comment on thus please . Gr8 Work guys . What size engines are you fella's producing please . Gr8 job . Perseverance.
Should have hired someone familiar with mold making, we do this stuff every day.
I used to machine parts for Boeing, 7 heat treats from beginning to end, heat trat after every operation.
As a life long machinist and 20 years programing i get it. That is a hell of a hurdle. And just a beautiful product. My hat is off to you guys. Enjoyed watching and keep up the good fight.
Actually, I was surprised the number was that low, but still a big number. Best of luck to you and Steve.
Sweet brothers. 💪🤜🤛♥️
So when it blows up!! And you know it will!! How much to rebuild it?!!
That's huge Tom, big congrats man.
why did steve move away from who was making the blocks before? in one of steves last videos he mentions that the bell housing mounting surface is a but smaller then the original blocks. has that been fixed or ya just rolling with it and adjusting mid plate accordingly?
Hell of a Job Fellas Killer Engines I've seen you produce just getting Started... If you have a Testbed for a 91 S10 Blazer 2door let me know Drag and Drive would be Nice! Have Always wanted a Custom Engine i can't afford...