Ok buddy. Thats why i run a glock 17 as a competition gun. Only modifications are a stock glock 34 adjustable rear sight i got for free(they are like $12 anyway), a hogue handal grip i paid $13 for, and a ghost 3.5# connector and hand polish with install i paid $45 for. So for my stock glock 17 gen 4 and another $58, i have a competition gun. How much did you spend on your stock 1911? Not bashing, id love to have one sooner than later, but glocks are around for a reason.
skiball83 OK and I normally do not do this but here goes. I will not bash your glock for what it is. It is an expensive disposable gun. It does the job period. It is the Toyota Camry of the gun world. Please do not take this the wrong way but it is not a Cadillac, it is not even a Lincoln, it is not the Avalon it is just a Camry. You buy it and it gets you from point a to point b. You can put $1000 in it but why would you? Plastic sights, spongy trigger, plastic mags = glock perfection. Buy one it works as it should. Do not spend any extra money on it. If it fails or god forbid you have to use it for a "good shoot" and lose it go buy another one. That is what it was designed for.
skiball83 1911's have been around for over a century for a reason. They're just that good. Young guys have this idea that they're terrible because of horror stories from old time vets, they never get the part about the abuse those old war guns took, but still functioned. Or they think they're not accurate because, historically, the military spends about five minutes training on pistol use. Then, it's taught it's a last resort, point blank option. The truth is that a 1911 is very reliable, and very accurate. And will out last any poly-gun. Many of the 1911's that the military finally got rid of, just a few years ago, were dated back to the World Wars. There are already news releases, all over the interwebz, about Gen 1 Glock frames failing. That's only a 30 year old gun. These idiots spouting "I've carried my Glock for 20 years, and I'll carry it for life!" Don't shoot. Is a 1911 perfect? no. Is a Glock perfect? I'd say that five "generations", with more changes coming, proves not. Oh, btw, here's some Glock trivia for you: The striker-fire system was developed by John Moses Browning, ALONGSIDE the 1911. As Colt was heavily invested in marketing the 1911 for the American market, they chose to sell the Striker design to Fabrique, with a non-competition clause. The first Striker Fire pistol was the Fabrique Model 1900, which saw moderate popularity in Europe, and was replaced by the Model 1922. The first polymer framed pistol was released by H&K, in 1970. The only thing Glock did was take two designs, mash them together, and pay a movie producer a couple of million dollars to have "John McClane" give a two minute false advertising rant about his gun in Die Hard 2. Without that movie Glock would have never become a "thing".
How many people DROP a 1911 pistol on its muzzle?? Seriously? I have owned these pistols for 40 years and NEVER dropped ONE, on its muzzle, slide, buttstock, anywhere, and have never had an "accidental discharge".
Ok so tell me what would happen if the sear or sear pin were to break while your series 70 has one in the chamber and the hammer cocked? Answer is your putting a hole in something. Im not picking on the series 70...I have a few of them actually and only 1 series 80...I just wouldnt feel comfortable having one loaded and pointed at my leg or anything else for that matter.
@@broot1375 Ok I’m not saying anything bad about series 80, but if the trigger mechanism were to somehow break to hit the firing pin hard enough, then the mechanisms are horribly made and/or they’re made of super cheap steel.
Straw hats are fine with suspenders, so long as it's between Easter Sunday & Sept. 15th (longer in warmer climates). As heated as the Series 70 vs. Series 80 debate gets, I don't think there was ever a riot over it. Straw hats out of season; however...
Actually you need to wear a good quality Cowboy hat and boots so you can get your Longmire on. Don't forget the Wrangler Jean's, and pearl snap shirts.
I actually did have a problem with a series 80. I’ll admit, it was a cleaning issue. What happened was that the plunger got stuck, probably due to carbon residue. Because the plunger was stuck, I couldn’t pull the trigger. After I got it cleaned up, it worked fine again.
His channel isn’t about 1 certain thing. He makes content on whatever he wants. His words, not mine. Also, his content is also dependent on viewer request - being that if there’s a question worth making a video he usually does.
Have been shooting a 1911 for over 30 years and didn't know the difference (or reason) between a 70 or 80. Have always shot or owned 70's ( no plunger) Thanks Yankee Marshall for that explanation.
The series 70s pass all of the DOJ drop testing here in California. I know that because my LB 1911 is a series 70 and I'm in California. Good enough for me and i don't really care for the additional complication of the series 80. To each his own.
Braidy Fisher they pass because the firing pin is not steel, the replaced it with a titanium one to help them pass the drop testing, same way Springfield armory did for the same reason.
fluffykittynoodles sounds like I got got? What the ever loving fuck are you even talking about? If you look at the QUALITY 1911 makers, they almost always change firing pins in 1911s to titanium to assist in the drop tests. I’m not surprised the RIA guns don’t have them though, they aren’t a quality manufacturer! ;-)
If you are the first time owner of a new Series 80 1911 I would tend to agree that there would likely never be a problem as long as you know how to clear and properly reinstall the slide. I purchased a used Sig Sauer 1911 Emperor Scorpion. I functioned checked it at LGS but did not break down the pistol there. I am a certified Sig Sauer armorer. When I got the pistol home and broke it down I noticed the firing pin saafety plunger level, that is in the frame was mangled and bent forward and a bit sideways and was not fully seating. I think original owner did not know to make sure that was down when putting slide back on and he bent it. Then because it did not fully seat the slide was benting the tip down when going back into battery. And with that bent it was not fully supressing the safety plunger which in turn was allowing the wider rear part of the firy pin to hit and gouge it. I suspect with this the owner was getting light primer strikes at times and cursing Sig. I replaced the lever, the safety plunger and spring, the firing pin and spring. Still sent it back to Sig in regards to reviewing, correcting and reinitiating warranty. They found the extractor tip was broke which I had missed and replaced several other springs. So those extra Series 80 parts, starting with the firing pin safety plunger lever, can be damaged by inexperienced owner.
This was actually an excellent description of 70 vs 80. Especially the animation that looks like rabbit fucking during rapid fire. Because that's actually what's going on inside a handgun with a pin safety under fast fire. Rabbit fucking
There was a time you disliked mechanical safeties because they were a simple mechanical device that could possibly fail causing the gun to become inoperable, so much so you would convert your guns to decocker only. Does this mean you are okay with safeties now? Or just firing pin blocks? What about magazine disconnects?
I bought a used Remington 1911 R1 at a gun show, took it to the range, and it wouldn't fire. I later discovered the Firing Pin Plunger Lever was broken, and the tip that raised the firing pin plunger was broken off. So those parts DO fail. If someone isn't careful to make sure the Firing Pin Plunger Lever is in the down position when simply putting the slide back on the tip of the Firing Pin Plunger Lever can be easily sheared off.
I’ve had a 1911 R1 since 2011 and never had that issue with the plunger and put thousands of rounds through it by this point. Sounds like the previous owner forced the slide and damaged the plunger, and sold it off when they couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t fire. The plunger on mine always stays down, you’d have to physically pull it up and assemble the gun upside down for that to happen.
Test Test for reals look at Arnold he’s ripped and older. No excuses yankee! Make a changes in your diet and workout with plenty of rest and you will see lots of positive change.
It's called self-deprecating humor and it's meant to be ironic. He's in fairly decent shape, and he wouldn't be making jokes like that if he actually were decrepit.
More parts= more possible failure points. Simple math...but it is a pretty low probability and the added security of the plunger safety is well worth it in a carry gun.
Or a grip safety, ambisafety, front slide serrations, overtravel adjustment, extended beaver tail, a rail, full length guiderod, lowered and flared ejection port, and more thing which have made this pistol more durable and reliable. One of the biggest being the external extractor.
I will agree with almost all of your points except for the feel of the trigger. I do not know about any of y'all but I can definitely feel the difference between a series 70 and a series 80 trigger pull and the series 70 is better
Aaron Helms The real question is whether you’re a skilled enough shooter to take advantage of a series 70 trigger. Most people aren’t. You probably aren’t. I doubt you’re being honest enough with yourself to admit that you’ve overestimated your ability with a handgun.
Niko N What are you talking about? Can you explain further? English must not be your first language. Please try communicating in something that resembles proper English. I didn’t understand a word of what you wrote. What are you referring to?
@@leroyjenkins4811 what words do you need defined? I think it is pretty clear, maybe an example would help. In February 2017 I had a Springfield XDm in 45ACP and was shooting it, the trigger felt like a sponge, and at 20 yards I was able to keep the rounds on the target, but the score would have been shit. I traded it in on a 9mm Sig P320 the trigger on that was crisp and clean, at 20 yards I was able to actually get groups. Does that mean that 9mm is better than 45acp? The answer is no, because the two platforms are so wildly different it's not a comparison between 9mm and 45acp. Just like if you compare an off-the-shelf series 80 1911 vs a custom shop series 70 1911. The difference you feel in the trigger pull is most likely not the series, rather it is about the quality of the workmanship that was employed to make the guns. I have direct experience with this, there's a shop about 2 miles from my house that makes custom 1911's from the ground up, and they have several name-brand models in their shop. I'd gladly pay the extra for the ones they make, because the quality is far beyond what most manufacturers could even try. And I'm going to ignore your other comments because I would like to have a constructive conversation about this topic.
My series 80 failed due to dirt accumulated in the extractor and plunger areas after 4 years. I didn't know how to properly clean it due to the owner's manual failing to show it. It wasn't until I saw disassembly videos on you tube that I learned how! When I ran a Q tip through the extractor hole I pushed out a plug of carbon and dirt that was preventing the firing pin from moving and the extractor working! the weird thing is that it fired fine the last time at the range with no indication the time before. The series 80 Remington R-1 Enhanced is a fine weapon as long as you detail clean it from time to time. I wouldn't wait more than a year if you fire it often to detail strip and clean though.
You said it right "there's ALMOST nothing that can go wrong". Some reliability engineering shows the more part there are the more chances of something failing. Call it 99.99% reliable if it makes you feel better BUT...
It was a requirement for the M9 Pistol Program, but they dropped it for the M17 Program. But they don't always follow their own rules. The Sig P226 didn't have a manual safety which was a requirement of the M9 Program. And in the M17 Program they let third stage bidding short circuit the durability testing that was supposed to be performed in the 2nd stage.
Typical Brit to bitch and moan about what he used to have and his own government stole. MATE YOLL GOT A LOISSENSE TO BE WATCHING THIS HEAR BLUNDERBUSS VIDEOS ON THE INTERWEBS ?
He was on a list, and the only 'choice' he had was to turn it in or go to prison for a minimum of five years. That is why registration is the real killer for firearms ownership.
S80 has two "extra" parts in the frame and two "extra" parts in the slide. "I count the firing pin block spring as a part" Not really complicated at all. But there's reasons why 1911 race guns are usually S70, less parts to tune and less moving contact surfaces in the trigger assembly making for a "smoother" feel.
FWIW Kimber uses the grip safety to disengage the firing pin lock so it has no effect on the trigger. You can achieve a "drop safe" gun without a firing pin lock by doing one, or both, of two things 1. Install a titanium firing pin 2. Install an extra strength firing pin spring. Many of the imported "series 70" guns use an extra strength firing pin spring. They manage to pass the drop safety test required for imported guns with it. I prefer a titanium firing pin to "drop safe" a series 70 gun. The extra strength springs are a total pain in the @$$ to replace when removing the firing pin and extractor for cleaning.
I too trust the Series 80 set up but not so much the Swartz version that actuates from the grip safety. I have personally experienced failures to fire as a result of the grip releasing the trigger but the drop safe plunger was not fully depressed. Thus click but no bang. The platforms were a first generation S&W 1911 and a Kimber Ultra CDP II. Anybody else experienced this?
I just learned of this concept . I purchased a Smith and Wesson m&p 45 and never knew it was a series 80. The gun goes boom Everytime I pull the trigger. Period. I clean it regularly...I don't drop it. I'd stake my life on it which is why it is my carry weapon.
If you look at a Series 80 type 1911 with an external extractor (like a Sig STX) it has at the back of the slide what looks like an internal extractor. Because the Series 80 was designed to use the internal extractor of the Colt 1911 to retain the plunger and spring, 1911s with external extractors still need something to retain them. So there's a butt-end of an internal extractor in the slide to do that job, even thought its not the gun's actual extractor!
Good information video..... all glocks in 9mm, 1911s in 45, ARs in 5.56.... we are never satisfied with shit that works.....aftermarket business is huge... for suckers
Most of the time I agree, however on this one I have to disagree. If you are tricking out a gun for competition you will never get a 80 to feel as smooth and light as a 70 series. I really think the 80 is better for carry though due to the added safety.
There's always the contention though that the best drop safety is to just not drop the gun, but the common sense argument is losing ground these days. And, since the second of my life mottos is "shit happens" I guess we will plan for a drop occurring, and hope we act like adults when we handle one.
There is a HUGE difference on the trigger experience between a series 70 and 80. I am sorry that you are not able to perceive such difference. The same is applicable for revolvers with transfer bars vs. firing pin on hammer.
Hey sorry I'm late to the discussion... Yankee, are you still carrying a 1911 today? (Feb 2023) I reached the age required to carry a 1911 in 1978. I've own several 1911's and still have 4. Every one of them were/are series 70.
Those are technically braces not suspenders, but more importantly, the safety pins are what give you serious “old man” cred; much more than carrying a 1911.
Springfield mil spec 1911 has a lighter firing pin and stronger spring, with no firing pin block. It is very drop safe reliable; As prrof of this claim - even the State of California DOJ approves! So it is possible to have safety and improved trigger pull. Same goes for older CZ75 pre B models and Shadow P-01 models.Sometimes simpler and fewer parts is better.
80 Series awesome, with extra safety is better than nothing for EDC. The 70 series is okay when you are doing gun competitions or hunting with old timers.
Since most people will never detail strip their 1911, there is effectively no difference between the two. The only time I would ever care is if I were looking for something collectable...which I'm not. No safe queens in this house.
Many modern people treat anything that can be stratified into 2 groups as a team sport. They then pick a side and treat the victory of a product like it means they’ve won somehow. Pray God grants them additional wisdom.
Have 3 1911 all Colts and my brother has a series 80! There is a difference in the trigger pull and feel! Maybe you should had use the same manufacturer guns! My 70’s are a Gold Cup a commander and a reworked bullseye gun. There is a difference in the trigger pull from the commander and the series 80, both guns are original with no work ,on them. The 80 is stiffer grinding pull have taken my trigger from my rework bullseye gun and it still had that grinding feel and have shot other series 80’s and all feel the same grinding feel!
I've got a Series 80 I bought back in 86. Love shooting it on my range behind the house. Its a chunk of steel, however, too damned heavy to carry off duty.
I loved the Swiss watch analogy. As a mechanical engineer I totally agree. Just because the more parts you have, and the more parts that move does not make it more "unsafe". Keep up the great work.
You missed a possible point of failure, rust and or failure to clean the gun could result in gunked up channels that the spring or plunger couldn't readily travel through. Although if we're talking in a literal sense, with the two reasons you gave and the one I did. It does make it possible for this gun to fail in ways that a series 70 cannot. Making it (in some conditions) less reliable. Thanks for your consideration.
I have carpal tunnel in both hands so 1911s are not safe for me as I get unintended dis charges with a 7 lb 1912 trigger pull with some take up so I use a Smith 4506.
Hey Yankee, you can put to rest these issues, people need something to argue about. If the can argue about minor stuff, they'll argue about major stuff and might solve the world's problems!
I recently purchased a 70 series clone 1911 .45 pistol & installed a custom trigger, both spring systems, lighter hammer, sear - disconector & even steel strut to match up w the smaller hammer strut pin. Works fine & noticed the hammer actually has a 1/3 cock position whereby the gun will not fire using snap caps, even w the ambi safety not engaged. Since the hammer is not in contact with the firing pin surely this must act as a drop safety even in the 70 series TS clone (w custom kit)?? Even more so since U can engage the ambi safety in the 1/3 cock position.
The 1/2 cock safety was John Browning's original and only safety on the first iteration of his .45 auto pistol: he then added the grip safety and handed it back to the Army; the Calvary was concerned that a rider may shot their horse while attempting to holster the sidearm and requested a thumb safety be added; the US Army was satisfied and it became the M1911. In 1923 it went through a few slight changes and became the M1911A1. The 1/2 cock is not a drop safety! However, the pistol is so butt heavy that it will never hit the ground from a fall muzzel first, which is what the series 80 firing pin safety block prevents. The 1/2 cock safety is a hold over from Browning's lever action rifles, and was therefore in his mind the only safety the pistol needed; the Army saw it differently.
I like both systems. A real pain is series 70 gold cup. It has an extra depresser and micro spring on the sear, it can be quite a task to reassemble in not shown the proper sequence and method.
I have on series 80 a good friend and fellow Veteran who passed left to me. He did a trigger job and some internal polishing and switched some springs. I don't EDC it a lot for sentimental reasons. But it shoots groups almost as tight as my series 70 1911s and 2011s. Trigger is a little heavier with a very short reset. Think he set the trigger like that because it was his main EDC. But for a series 80 it's a fine carry 1911. Not a Camp Perry candidate but an excellent self defense 1911. Just my 0.2 😉
Okay, well what about when you start introducing dirt and fouling in the mechanism? To be fair, it's obviously not something to worry about for carry purposes, and you shouldn't carry a 1911 in a rough and tactical environment anyway. But you KNOW that you'd have a warm and fuzzy feeling inside knowing that this piece in your collection could, if needed. That's part of what being a collector is all about.
I’ve had and have many of both. I have shot them a lot. I discern no difference in trigger pull between the two. If you ask me, it’s a philosophical point which people think they look smart when they argue for the 70 and against the 80.
Thanks TYM I have been thinking about picking up a 1911. And was curious about what the difference is between the two. I suppose my next question is is there a notable difference in collectibility???? Resale value
I've never shot a series 70. I do have a series 80 and I can only think if you can feel the firing pin safety in the trigger pull, it's probably just rough surfaces between the mechanical parts. Which you can smooth out yourself with some polishing, or just let it work itself out over time.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a drop safety seem...redundant on a 1911? I mean you have a frame safety and a palm safety, doesn't that make the gun drop safe in of itself? Or is it like a rub for a delicious steak, in that the rub is not "rubbed" into the meat and the drop safety has a logic beyond being there in case the gun is "dropped"?
If you have to have a series 80, I think Smith & Wesson's pre E series setup was better by using the grip safety to control the fire pin safety instead of the trigger.
If the guy was like me, and dyslexic, I could understand. But most people I know that share this trait, re-read what they are looking at. Made a fool of myself last night basically doing the same thing, and I had to make a few calls to apologize for not re-reading an article.
I’ve noticed that the people with the most adamant opinions are the people who haven’t any experience in the subject. I’ve owned both with several thousand rounds shot through both and I’ve found that once the guns have been properly cleaned (most people never do this even though they know they should) and several hundred rounds shot through them, (most people don’t do this either for whatever reason) I have no favorite.
I have heard a couple gunsmiths say that it’s a little easier to do a fine tune trigger job on a 70 Series. I wouldn’t know, as I’ve never worked on one. I have a couple 1911’s. One that I carry occasionally. I chose an 80 series for carry simply because one holster option I have is a shoulder rig, which doesn’t have the muzzle pointed downward. I realize the chance of a part failure while sitting in the holster is minimal, but I feel better about the firing pin safety while the gun is in my shoulder rig. Especially with my kids in the back seat of the car.
I've had the plunger jam in a colt pocketlite from previous owners wd40 and it having some burrs. It really sucked and even though it's fixed and seems to work I almost completely removed the offending pieces and will if it ever crops up again
I see what you’re sayin and I love all 1911s. Although, when it comes to your analogy with the Swiss watch, there’s a huge difference between a device that just moves a few tiny arms round and round, and a device that literally is subjected to controlled explosions over and over again. Parts can definitely be more prone to failing in a gun as opposed to a time piece.
The issue here with the series 80 is that this was done only to appease very specific states at the time. Some of these same states Colt doesnt even sell to anymore. Lets look at the drop tests that were done on the 1911 though. Navy conducted a drop test after a seaman said he dropped the 1911 and it went off. They determined that in order to discharge a 1911 by dropping it the 1911 would have to land barrel first and drop from 20ft. The next drop test conducted reached similar results. However, it became more about getting a 1911 to drop barrel first. It turned out because of the 1911s design the likely hood that a 1911 would ever land barrel first and do so with enough force to discharge the weapon was virtually impossible. I would also like to point out that not a single high end 1911 manufacturer makes a series 80 1911. And Sig and Kimber 1911's drop safety is so bad the Colt actually came out and said the system is unreliable
Excellent graphics and explanation.. in my opinion the series 80 type parts make getting a great trigger pull about 15 percent harder to achieve. That is a very very light and crisp pull.. a standard 4 to 5 pound good trigger pull is no harder to achieve..
If I remember correctly, a company with the word BROWN in its name at one time listed a "shim" of various thickness to replace the series 80 drop safety.
I have the kimber series 80 which has a different system, only 1 piece (push rod) and it's activated by the grip safety not the trigger, I've never had any problem with it, you can't install it the wrong way, because there's only one way for it to install but still pain in the neck to put in 🥶, personally i prefer the series 70, because less is more in this case, much simpler and less holes to trap dirt, but my state laws require a firing pin block, and kimber is much better design, and a better looking gun IMO.
Probably the best and most thorough/concise explanation that I've seen on the differences between the 1911 series 70 vs 80.
Think Like A Cop has a video that goes a little better.
I love my 70 series, I think in almost 70 years I never dropped a gun, not too worried about being drop safety or a hard bumps.
The "series 80" was a "solution" that was looking for a "problem", that NEVER
EXISTED.
If a 1911 needed a firing pin block JOHN MOSES BROWNING would have put one in there😂🇺🇸!
Thank God, someone with a brain, thank you .
Wrong, Browning didn't design a beaver tail and most people prefer it.
Big Al he did have designs for one, Colt implemented it years later per customer demand
that is like saying if car needed airbags Henry Ford or Karl Benz would have put one in there
@Alex Eidenier i know
Next episode. The question that all glock lovers ask and need settled once and for all.
Tampax or Kotex?
Ok buddy. Thats why i run a glock 17 as a competition gun. Only modifications are a stock glock 34 adjustable rear sight i got for free(they are like $12 anyway), a hogue handal grip i paid $13 for, and a ghost 3.5# connector and hand polish with install i paid $45 for. So for my stock glock 17 gen 4 and another $58, i have a competition gun. How much did you spend on your stock 1911? Not bashing, id love to have one sooner than later, but glocks are around for a reason.
Real men carry M&P's...
Now that's some funny shit right there.
skiball83 OK and I normally do not do this but here goes. I will not bash your glock for what it is. It is an expensive disposable gun. It does the job period. It is the Toyota Camry of the gun world. Please do not take this the wrong way but it is not a Cadillac, it is not even a Lincoln, it is not the Avalon it is just a Camry. You buy it and it gets you from point a to point b. You can put $1000 in it but why would you? Plastic sights, spongy trigger, plastic mags = glock perfection. Buy one it works as it should. Do not spend any extra money on it. If it fails or god forbid you have to use it for a "good shoot" and lose it go buy another one. That is what it was designed for.
skiball83 1911's have been around for over a century for a reason. They're just that good. Young guys have this idea that they're terrible because of horror stories from old time vets, they never get the part about the abuse those old war guns took, but still functioned. Or they think they're not accurate because, historically, the military spends about five minutes training on pistol use. Then, it's taught it's a last resort, point blank option. The truth is that a 1911 is very reliable, and very accurate. And will out last any poly-gun. Many of the 1911's that the military finally got rid of, just a few years ago, were dated back to the World Wars. There are already news releases, all over the interwebz, about Gen 1 Glock frames failing. That's only a 30 year old gun. These idiots spouting "I've carried my Glock for 20 years, and I'll carry it for life!" Don't shoot. Is a 1911 perfect? no. Is a Glock perfect? I'd say that five "generations", with more changes coming, proves not. Oh, btw, here's some Glock trivia for you: The striker-fire system was developed by John Moses Browning, ALONGSIDE the 1911. As Colt was heavily invested in marketing the 1911 for the American market, they chose to sell the Striker design to Fabrique, with a non-competition clause. The first Striker Fire pistol was the Fabrique Model 1900, which saw moderate popularity in Europe, and was replaced by the Model 1922. The first polymer framed pistol was released by H&K, in 1970. The only thing Glock did was take two designs, mash them together, and pay a movie producer a couple of million dollars to have "John McClane" give a two minute false advertising rant about his gun in Die Hard 2. Without that movie Glock would have never become a "thing".
i like the drop safety. your right the difference is not noticable. the ones who complain are the ones who demand a 2lb trigger on their glocks.
If you're worried about it, put a titanium firing pin and heavier firing pin spring into your Series 70 and you will pass the Kalifornia drop test.
How many people DROP a 1911 pistol on its muzzle?? Seriously? I have owned
these pistols for 40 years and NEVER dropped ONE, on its muzzle, slide, buttstock, anywhere, and have never had an "accidental discharge".
Ok so tell me what would happen if the sear or sear pin were to break while your series 70 has one in the chamber and the hammer cocked? Answer is your putting a hole in something. Im not picking on the series 70...I have a few of them actually and only 1 series 80...I just wouldnt feel comfortable having one loaded and pointed at my leg or anything else for that matter.
@@broot1375 know of any cases of this happening?
@@broot1375 Ok I’m not saying anything bad about series 80, but if the trigger mechanism were to somehow break to hit the firing pin hard enough, then the mechanisms are horribly made and/or they’re made of super cheap steel.
Very informative. I wondered about this, but not enough to get out of my recliner. Thanks to Mr. Marshal and UA-cam I didn't have to.
Straw hats are fine with suspenders, so long as it's between Easter Sunday & Sept. 15th (longer in warmer climates). As heated as the Series 70 vs. Series 80 debate gets, I don't think there was ever a riot over it. Straw hats out of season; however...
Don't forget the sandals with black socks. 😎
Actually you need to wear a good quality Cowboy hat and boots so you can get your Longmire on. Don't forget the Wrangler Jean's, and pearl snap shirts.
I actually did have a problem with a series 80. I’ll admit, it was a cleaning issue. What happened was that the plunger got stuck, probably due to carbon residue. Because the plunger was stuck, I couldn’t pull the trigger. After I got it cleaned up, it worked fine again.
I've had both, and frankly, I could see no discernible difference between them.
Omg Yankee! Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks?! Great animation 👍
Wow...I'm all learning things n stuff...what happened to this channel?
Josh Benware channel that’s how I felt. My 1911 knowledge has increased about 500% over the last months from this channel.
His channel isn’t about 1 certain thing. He makes content on whatever he wants. His words, not mine. Also, his content is also dependent on viewer request - being that if there’s a question worth making a video he usually does.
@@carbon_no6 I know. Been subbed for 6 years
Have been shooting a 1911 for over 30 years and didn't know the difference (or reason) between a 70 or 80. Have always shot or owned 70's ( no plunger) Thanks Yankee Marshall for that explanation.
The series 70s pass all of the DOJ drop testing here in California. I know that because my LB 1911 is a series 70 and I'm in California. Good enough for me and i don't really care for the additional complication of the series 80. To each his own.
Braidy Fisher they pass because the firing pin is not steel, the replaced it with a titanium one to help them pass the drop testing, same way Springfield armory did for the same reason.
@@jimhans1 my rock island $500 1911 passed California's bullshit. No titanium anything. Sounds like you got got.
fluffykittynoodles sounds like I got got? What the ever loving fuck are you even talking about? If you look at the QUALITY 1911 makers, they almost always change firing pins in 1911s to titanium to assist in the drop tests. I’m not surprised the RIA guns don’t have them though, they aren’t a quality manufacturer! ;-)
Dude, relax. It was obviiusly a joke.
Excellent explanation,as usual.
I love your vids!!! Thanks
If you are the first time owner of a new Series 80 1911 I would tend to agree that there would likely never be a problem as long as you know how to clear and properly reinstall the slide. I purchased a used Sig Sauer 1911 Emperor Scorpion. I functioned checked it at LGS but did not break down the pistol there. I am a certified Sig Sauer armorer. When I got the pistol home and broke it down I noticed the firing pin saafety plunger level, that is in the frame was mangled and bent forward and a bit sideways and was not fully seating. I think original owner did not know to make sure that was down when putting slide back on and he bent it. Then because it did not fully seat the slide was benting the tip down when going back into battery. And with that bent it was not fully supressing the safety plunger which in turn was allowing the wider rear part of the firy pin to hit and gouge it. I suspect with this the owner was getting light primer strikes at times and cursing Sig. I replaced the lever, the safety plunger and spring, the firing pin and spring. Still sent it back to Sig in regards to reviewing, correcting and reinitiating warranty. They found the extractor tip was broke which I had missed and replaced several other springs. So those extra Series 80 parts, starting with the firing pin safety plunger lever, can be damaged by inexperienced owner.
GREAT video. Animation was impressive and easy to understand. thank you
This was actually an excellent description of 70 vs 80. Especially the animation that looks like rabbit fucking during rapid fire. Because that's actually what's going on inside a handgun with a pin safety under fast fire. Rabbit fucking
There was a time you disliked mechanical safeties because they were a simple mechanical device that could possibly fail causing the gun to become inoperable, so much so you would convert your guns to decocker only. Does this mean you are okay with safeties now? Or just firing pin blocks? What about magazine disconnects?
Great video brother. You still carrying a 1911 or you switch to something else? Still trying to find myself a 200DS, not having any luck.
Kimber drop safety is engaged by the grip safety and does not interfere with the trigger and only has one part.
I bought a used Remington 1911 R1 at a gun show, took it to the range, and it wouldn't fire. I later discovered the Firing Pin Plunger Lever was broken, and the tip that raised the firing pin plunger was broken off. So those parts DO fail. If someone isn't careful to make sure the Firing Pin Plunger Lever is in the down position when simply putting the slide back on the tip of the Firing Pin Plunger Lever can be easily sheared off.
I’ve had a 1911 R1 since 2011 and never had that issue with the plunger and put thousands of rounds through it by this point. Sounds like the previous owner forced the slide and damaged the plunger, and sold it off when they couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t fire. The plunger on mine always stays down, you’d have to physically pull it up and assemble the gun upside down for that to happen.
Dude you gotta stop ragging on yourself with the old jokes your barely middle aged lol. Go for a run man, start a new diet. Your good!!!!!!
Test Test for reals look at Arnold he’s ripped and older. No excuses yankee! Make a changes in your diet and workout with plenty of rest and you will see lots of positive change.
@@lordthorby6199 lol Arnold as in Arnold Schwarzenegger? The guy has been on steroids since the 70's
Ulysses Leal I’m not saying he looks bad I’m saying he doesn’t need to be so hard on himself 😂
It's called self-deprecating humor and it's meant to be ironic. He's in fairly decent shape, and he wouldn't be making jokes like that if he actually were decrepit.
Not bad for a DM pt. on Medicare.
More parts= more possible failure points. Simple math...but it is a pretty low probability and the added security of the plunger safety is well worth it in a carry gun.
Three things JMB never designed for his pistol:
1) Series 80
2) External extractor
3) Shock buffer
He also never put night sights on one.
The 3 best improvements that can be made to his design. I think JMB would approve.
@@TheYankeeMarshal burn
Or a grip safety, ambisafety, front slide serrations, overtravel adjustment, extended beaver tail, a rail, full length guiderod, lowered and flared ejection port, and more thing which have made this pistol more durable and reliable. One of the biggest being the external extractor.
JHP Bullets
Very nice explanation.👍
I will agree with almost all of your points except for the feel of the trigger. I do not know about any of y'all but I can definitely feel the difference between a series 70 and a series 80 trigger pull and the series 70 is better
Aaron Helms
The real question is whether you’re a skilled enough shooter to take advantage of a series 70 trigger. Most people aren’t. You probably aren’t. I doubt you’re being honest enough with yourself to admit that you’ve overestimated your ability with a handgun.
Are they the same make/age/build quality? If so then yes you can say 70 vs 80 if not then apples to orange trees my friend.
Niko N
What are you talking about? Can you explain further? English must not be your first language. Please try communicating in something that resembles proper English. I didn’t understand a word of what you wrote. What are you referring to?
@@leroyjenkins4811 what words do you need defined? I think it is pretty clear, maybe an example would help. In February 2017 I had a Springfield XDm in 45ACP and was shooting it, the trigger felt like a sponge, and at 20 yards I was able to keep the rounds on the target, but the score would have been shit. I traded it in on a 9mm Sig P320 the trigger on that was crisp and clean, at 20 yards I was able to actually get groups. Does that mean that 9mm is better than 45acp? The answer is no, because the two platforms are so wildly different it's not a comparison between 9mm and 45acp.
Just like if you compare an off-the-shelf series 80 1911 vs a custom shop series 70 1911. The difference you feel in the trigger pull is most likely not the series, rather it is about the quality of the workmanship that was employed to make the guns.
I have direct experience with this, there's a shop about 2 miles from my house that makes custom 1911's from the ground up, and they have several name-brand models in their shop. I'd gladly pay the extra for the ones they make, because the quality is far beyond what most manufacturers could even try.
And I'm going to ignore your other comments because I would like to have a constructive conversation about this topic.
Joe, believe it or not, you don’t have to be of any particular skill level in order to “take advantage” of feel.
My series 80 failed due to dirt accumulated in the extractor and plunger areas after 4 years. I didn't know how to properly clean it due to the owner's manual failing to show it. It wasn't until I saw disassembly videos on you tube that I learned how! When I ran a Q tip through the extractor hole I pushed out a plug of carbon and dirt that was preventing the firing pin from moving and the extractor working! the weird thing is that it fired fine the last time at the range with no indication the time before. The series 80 Remington R-1 Enhanced is a fine weapon as long as you detail clean it from time to time. I wouldn't wait more than a year if you fire it often to detail strip and clean though.
You said it right "there's ALMOST nothing that can go wrong".
Some reliability engineering shows the more part there are the more chances of something failing.
Call it 99.99% reliable if it makes you feel better BUT...
I agree with yankee. Drop sears like this simple system are so easy and realiable its a wonder Sig didnt include on in their over engineered p320. 🤠
It was a requirement for the M9 Pistol Program, but they dropped it for the M17 Program. But they don't always follow their own rules. The Sig P226 didn't have a manual safety which was a requirement of the M9 Program. And in the M17 Program they let third stage bidding short circuit the durability testing that was supposed to be performed in the 2nd stage.
My colt lightweight commander was my favourite gun, when we were allow to have handguns here in the UK
Paul Senior should’ve never let it go
Typical Brit to bitch and moan about what he used to have and his own government stole. MATE YOLL GOT A LOISSENSE TO BE WATCHING THIS HEAR BLUNDERBUSS VIDEOS ON THE INTERWEBS ?
Tree Climber seems like he had a clear choice, either turn it in or not.
He was on a list, and the only 'choice' he had was to turn it in or go to prison for a minimum of five years.
That is why registration is the real killer for firearms ownership.
Move to Northern Ireland. Its the only part of the UK where you can own a handgun.
S80 has two "extra" parts in the frame and two "extra" parts in the slide.
"I count the firing pin block spring as a part"
Not really complicated at all.
But there's reasons why 1911 race guns are usually S70, less parts to tune and less moving contact surfaces in the trigger assembly making for a "smoother" feel.
FWIW Kimber uses the grip safety to disengage the firing pin lock so it has no effect on the trigger.
You can achieve a "drop safe" gun without a firing pin lock by doing one, or both, of two things
1. Install a titanium firing pin
2. Install an extra strength firing pin spring.
Many of the imported "series 70" guns use an extra strength firing pin spring. They manage to pass the drop safety test required for imported guns with it.
I prefer a titanium firing pin to "drop safe" a series 70 gun. The extra strength springs are a total pain in the @$$ to replace when removing the firing pin and extractor for cleaning.
Damn Yankee putting in the effort....cool video man
I too trust the Series 80 set up but not so much the Swartz version that actuates from the grip safety. I have personally experienced failures to fire as a result of the grip releasing the trigger but the drop safe plunger was not fully depressed. Thus click but no bang. The platforms were a first generation S&W 1911 and a Kimber Ultra CDP II. Anybody else experienced this?
I just learned of this concept . I purchased a Smith and Wesson m&p 45 and never knew it was a series 80. The gun goes boom Everytime I pull the trigger. Period. I clean it regularly...I don't drop it. I'd stake my life on it which is why it is my carry weapon.
If you look at a Series 80 type 1911 with an external extractor (like a Sig STX) it has at the back of the slide what looks like an internal extractor. Because the Series 80 was designed to use the internal extractor of the Colt 1911 to retain the plunger and spring, 1911s with external extractors still need something to retain them. So there's a butt-end of an internal extractor in the slide to do that job, even thought its not the gun's actual extractor!
Good job!
Good information video..... all glocks in 9mm, 1911s in 45, ARs in 5.56.... we are never satisfied with shit that works.....aftermarket business is huge... for suckers
I’m new to the 1911 so thank you 👍 for the clear explanation 😀
Most of the time I agree, however on this one I have to disagree. If you are tricking out a gun for competition you will never get a 80 to feel as smooth and light as a 70 series. I really think the 80 is better for carry though due to the added safety.
There's always the contention though that the best drop safety is to just not drop the gun, but the common sense argument is losing ground these days. And, since the second of my life mottos is "shit happens" I guess we will plan for a drop occurring, and hope we act like adults when we handle one.
I was misled. I thought this was going to be a discussion if you were a 70 or 80 year old
There is a HUGE difference on the trigger experience between a series 70 and 80. I am sorry that you are not able to perceive such difference. The same is applicable for revolvers with transfer bars vs. firing pin on hammer.
Hey sorry I'm late to the discussion... Yankee, are you still carrying a 1911 today? (Feb 2023) I reached the age required to carry a 1911 in 1978. I've own several 1911's and still have 4. Every one of them were/are series 70.
I agree with you Yankee. I have both, shoot both and like both. No problems.
Those are technically braces not suspenders, but more importantly, the safety pins are what give you serious “old man” cred; much more than carrying a 1911.
Excellent video
I'll take the model 80 to eliminate the possibility of slam fires when racking the slide.
Springfield mil spec 1911 has a lighter firing pin and stronger spring, with no firing pin block. It is very drop safe reliable; As prrof of this claim - even the State of California DOJ approves! So it is possible to have safety and improved trigger pull. Same goes for older CZ75 pre B models and Shadow P-01 models.Sometimes simpler and fewer parts is better.
Totally agree... I have both and have never had an issue with either design
80 Series awesome, with extra safety is better than nothing for EDC. The 70 series is okay when you are doing gun competitions or hunting with old timers.
Since most people will never detail strip their 1911, there is effectively no difference between the two. The only time I would ever care is if I were looking for something collectable...which I'm not. No safe queens in this house.
did you go into the future couple years to get that picture of you in the green shirt and suspenders somehow that looks appropriate
Great explanation Yankee. 👍🏻😁
Would you recommend a 1911 in a different caliber like 357 Sig over 45? What are your thoughts on the 9mm and 380 craze in the 1911 platform?
Many modern people treat anything that can be stratified into 2 groups as a team sport. They then pick a side and treat the victory of a product like it means they’ve won somehow. Pray God grants them additional wisdom.
Nicely done animations and descriptions!
Have 3 1911 all Colts and my brother has a series 80! There is a difference in the trigger pull and feel! Maybe you should had use the same manufacturer guns! My 70’s are a Gold Cup a commander and a reworked bullseye gun. There is a difference in the trigger pull from the commander and the series 80, both guns are original with no work ,on them. The 80 is stiffer grinding pull have taken my trigger from my rework bullseye gun and it still had that grinding feel and have shot other series 80’s and all feel the same grinding feel!
I've got a Series 80 I bought back in 86. Love shooting it on my range behind the house. Its a chunk of steel, however, too damned heavy to carry off duty.
I loved the Swiss watch analogy. As a mechanical engineer I totally agree. Just because the more parts you have, and the more parts that move does not make it more "unsafe". Keep up the great work.
Forget about what's better. I want to know if Yankee Zombies are more dangerous than Bluecoat Zombies? (YANKEE MARSHALL) ?
You missed a possible point of failure, rust and or failure to clean the gun could result in gunked up channels that the spring or plunger couldn't readily travel through. Although if we're talking in a literal sense, with the two reasons you gave and the one I did. It does make it possible for this gun to fail in ways that a series 70 cannot. Making it (in some conditions) less reliable.
Thanks for your consideration.
I have carpal tunnel in both hands so 1911s are not safe for me as I get unintended dis charges with a 7 lb 1912 trigger pull with some take up so I use a Smith 4506.
Lol! I thought I saw my Grandfather with that hat.
Hey Yankee, you can put to rest these issues, people need something to argue about. If the can argue about minor stuff, they'll argue about major stuff and might solve the world's problems!
I recently purchased a 70 series clone 1911 .45 pistol & installed a custom trigger, both spring systems, lighter hammer, sear - disconector & even steel strut to match up w the smaller hammer strut pin. Works fine & noticed the hammer actually has a 1/3 cock position whereby the gun will not fire using snap caps, even w the ambi safety not engaged. Since the hammer is not in contact with the firing pin surely this must act as a drop safety even in the 70 series TS clone (w custom kit)?? Even more so since U can engage the ambi safety in the 1/3 cock position.
The 1/2 cock safety was John Browning's original and only safety on the first iteration of his .45 auto pistol: he then added the grip safety and handed it back to the Army; the Calvary was concerned that a rider may shot their horse while attempting to holster the sidearm and requested a thumb safety be added; the US Army was satisfied and it became the M1911. In 1923 it went through a few slight changes and became the M1911A1. The 1/2 cock is not a drop safety! However, the pistol is so butt heavy that it will never hit the ground from a fall muzzel first, which is what the series 80 firing pin safety block prevents. The 1/2 cock safety is a hold over from Browning's lever action rifles, and was therefore in his mind the only safety the pistol needed; the Army saw it differently.
I like both systems. A real pain is series 70 gold cup. It has an extra depresser and micro spring on the sear, it can be quite a task to reassemble in not shown the proper sequence and method.
I have on series 80 a good friend and fellow Veteran who passed left to me. He did a trigger job and some internal polishing and switched some springs. I don't EDC it a lot for sentimental reasons. But it shoots groups almost as tight as my series 70 1911s and 2011s. Trigger is a little heavier with a very short reset. Think he set the trigger like that because it was his main EDC. But for a series 80 it's a fine carry 1911. Not a Camp Perry candidate but an excellent self defense 1911. Just my 0.2 😉
Excellent job on the demo. Thanks!!!!
Okay, well what about when you start introducing dirt and fouling in the mechanism? To be fair, it's obviously not something to worry about for carry purposes, and you shouldn't carry a 1911 in a rough and tactical environment anyway. But you KNOW that you'd have a warm and fuzzy feeling inside knowing that this piece in your collection could, if needed. That's part of what being a collector is all about.
I’ve had and have many of both. I have shot them a lot. I discern no difference in trigger pull between the two. If you ask me, it’s a philosophical point which people think they look smart when they argue for the 70 and against the 80.
my man, high five on the engrave sw1911, one of my best investment. Could you tell me the difference when u shoot compare to colt or springfield.
Thanks TYM I have been thinking about picking up a 1911. And was curious about what the difference is between the two. I suppose my next question is is there a notable difference in collectibility???? Resale value
I've never shot a series 70. I do have a series 80 and I can only think if you can feel the firing pin safety in the trigger pull, it's probably just rough surfaces between the mechanical parts. Which you can smooth out yourself with some polishing, or just let it work itself out over time.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a drop safety seem...redundant on a 1911? I mean you have a frame safety and a palm safety, doesn't that make the gun drop safe in of itself? Or is it like a rub for a delicious steak, in that the rub is not "rubbed" into the meat and the drop safety has a logic beyond being there in case the gun is "dropped"?
If you have to have a series 80, I think Smith & Wesson's pre E series setup was better by using the grip safety to control the fire pin safety instead of the trigger.
Swartz…same as Kimbers.
If the guy was like me, and dyslexic, I could understand. But most people I know that share this trait, re-read what they are looking at. Made a fool of myself last night basically doing the same thing, and I had to make a few calls to apologize for not re-reading an article.
I love both but apples to apples the series 70 DOES have a slightly less creepy trigger.
I’ve noticed that the people with the most adamant opinions are the people who haven’t any experience in the subject. I’ve owned both with several thousand rounds shot through both and I’ve found that once the guns have been properly cleaned (most people never do this even though they know they should) and several hundred rounds shot through them, (most people don’t do this either for whatever reason) I have no favorite.
I have both and while I know the difference I rarely even think about it as both function extremely well and feel about the same. :)
I have heard a couple gunsmiths say that it’s a little easier to do a fine tune trigger job on a 70 Series. I wouldn’t know, as I’ve never worked on one. I have a couple 1911’s. One that I carry occasionally. I chose an 80 series for carry simply because one holster option I have is a shoulder rig, which doesn’t have the muzzle pointed downward. I realize the chance of a part failure while sitting in the holster is minimal, but I feel better about the firing pin safety while the gun is in my shoulder rig. Especially with my kids in the back seat of the car.
Very nice animation. Thanks for sharing.
I've had the plunger jam in a colt pocketlite from previous owners wd40 and it having some burrs. It really sucked and even though it's fixed and seems to work I almost completely removed the offending pieces and will if it ever crops up again
Great informative video, and thanks for reminding up to attention to detail especially with words like "reliability," and "liability."
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you! Best video I have seen on the subject.
I see what you’re sayin and I love all 1911s. Although, when it comes to your analogy with the Swiss watch, there’s a huge difference between a device that just moves a few tiny arms round and round, and a device that literally is subjected to controlled explosions over and over again. Parts can definitely be more prone to failing in a gun as opposed to a time piece.
Great vid! Awesome animations.
Thanks for taking us back to school, and not giving us any homework. 👍
GREAT video! 👍
You should do a video on the difference in the Swartz firing pin system and the Colt firing pin system.
The issue here with the series 80 is that this was done only to appease very specific states at the time. Some of these same states Colt doesnt even sell to anymore. Lets look at the drop tests that were done on the 1911 though. Navy conducted a drop test after a seaman said he dropped the 1911 and it went off. They determined that in order to discharge a 1911 by dropping it the 1911 would have to land barrel first and drop from 20ft. The next drop test conducted reached similar results. However, it became more about getting a 1911 to drop barrel first. It turned out because of the 1911s design the likely hood that a 1911 would ever land barrel first and do so with enough force to discharge the weapon was virtually impossible.
I would also like to point out that not a single high end 1911 manufacturer makes a series 80 1911. And Sig and Kimber 1911's drop safety is so bad the Colt actually came out and said the system is unreliable
you nver owned one or shot one so how u gonna speak on it
@@AnthonyGalvan-k6t this is an arguement of an idiot.
I ask again, why don't you carry your all metal Kahr Elite pistol?
Awesome info !👍🏻🤝🏼
Excellent graphics and explanation.. in my opinion the series 80 type parts make getting a great trigger pull about 15 percent harder to achieve. That is a very very light and crisp pull.. a standard 4 to 5 pound good trigger pull is no harder to achieve..
Great video
If I remember correctly, a company with the word BROWN in its name at one time listed a "shim" of various thickness to replace the series 80 drop safety.
How the hell did that work?
I have the kimber series 80 which has a different system, only 1 piece (push rod) and it's activated by the grip safety not the trigger, I've never had any problem with it, you can't install it the wrong way, because there's only one way for it to install but still pain in the neck to put in 🥶, personally i prefer the series 70, because less is more in this case, much simpler and less holes to trap dirt, but my state laws require a firing pin block, and kimber is much better design, and a better looking gun IMO.
I just bought a Series 70 Colt Combat Commander. Sweet shooter
Love the skull grips! Where did you get them?
Thanks