How to Install an Electric Vehicle Charger Receptacle
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 тра 2022
- Electric Vehicles are becoming more and more popular on a daily basis. Maybe you own one yourself or know someone that does. Either way, one of those vehicles are going to need a way to charge their batteries. In this latest episode of Electrician U, Dustin walks us through the process of installing an electric vehicle charging receptacle in a residence.
🤘⚡️MEMBERSHIP⚡️🤘
JOIN ELECTRICIAN U - become a member and get:
FREE Continuing Education every year
FREE Practice Exams
FREE Monthly Video Courses
FREE Weekly Live Instructor-Led Classes
FREE Monthly Educational Newsletter
Premium Members-Only Content
Private Discord Channel
Monthly Members-Only Discord Chats
Sign up here --- www.electricianu.com/electric...
🎧🎹MUSIC AND VIDEO:🎹🎧
/ descantmv
🎬✍️ART AND ILLUSTRATION:✍️🎬
www.daverussoart.com
For most EV chargers a Nema 14-50R receptacle will be used. Most of us have probably seen one of these receptacles before in our homes. They are the same ones used for the oven! These receptacles are rated for 50 amps at 250 volts.
The very first step in the process would be to hire a professional electrician to install the receptacle. Now this would not only be for the non-electrician, but also for an electrician lacking the experience of installing this type of circuit. The second step in the process would be to remove power from the panel you will be installing the wiring to, so we aren’t working in a hot panel. Once we have that done, we need to figure our WHERE the new receptacle will be placed so the two-gang box can be installed. If you are installing the receptacle in an existing house, you will most likely be installing an old work box (sometimes called a pop in box). A tip here is to use a PENCIL (not a marker) to draw the outline of where you want to put the box. That way if there is a stud or other obstruction, you can shift the location to adjust and not have an unsightly pen mark left over!! To finish this portion of the installation, simply cut out the substrate to expose the void in the studs the size of the box you just marked, and you are ready to install the wiring!
For this installation, Dustin is using 8/3 NMC. So, it has 3 #8 conductors (2 hots and 1 neutral) along with a #10 bare copper ground. The cable will need to be fished down the wall to the box location. This will result in you having to go DOWN to the location where you cut the hole in the wall and reach inside the wall cavity to grab hold of the cable and pull it out of the hole. Once the cable is out, simply knock out one of the tabs in the box and pull the cable thru it and secure the box to the wall. Make sure you do not Over tighten the screws on the wings so those little tabs don’t break off.
Once the box is installed and wire is in place, then carefully remove the outer insulation from the NMC with a sharp razor knife. Don’t put pressure on the cable with the knife, just let the blade score the insulation gently so it can be removed. Next, remove just enough insulation for each conductor to go into the port on the receptacle. Put those stripped conductors into their respective ports on the receptacle itself and then tighten them down (making sure you are not over or under tightening them). Carefully fold the conductors back into the box and secure the receptacle to the box making sure that the bare copper ground wire is NOT contacting any other exposed metal parts of the receptacle or the exposed wires.
The last couple of steps must be repeated (sort of!!) on the other end to get the cable into the panel. Once the wire is into the panel and the connector tightened, the wires simply need to be landed into their respective places. The black & red conductors will be put on the breaker and the white goes to the neutral bar while the ground to the ground bar. Put the panel cover back on and you are ready to reenergize the panel and test the receptacle! Never walk away from an installation without testing what you just installed!! If you test the appropriate voltage at the receptacle, you are good to go with the installation and can call it done!
We hope this has been helpful in explaining the general steps in installing an EV receptacle. What type of installation would you like to see in a video? Leave comments below in the comment section! Please continue to follow Electrician U as we are constantly adding new content to help our followers along in their careers.
#dustin stelzer #electrician #electrical #electricity #tesla daily #chevrolet bolt euv # kia niro ev
While some may find this particular presentation to be somewhat dry, I find it a breath of fresh air compared to the overheated and hyperventilated approach of many youtube tutorials. Solid information delivered in an authoritative and easy to digest manner. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I recently just add one as well.
I agree wholeheartedly!! Usually the repartee is annoying & doesn’t add value. One exception is efixx. I enjoy their back & forth banter. It’s low-key & amusing. The electricians talk is British so I have WTF moments(ceiling rose anyone?) but the principles are the same.
I do find it funny that he says if you're not an electrician, hire an electrician and that this video is for electricians. If you're an electrician and you need to actually watch this video, then there's a problem!
Just another tip for those with damp locations … a 50 amp RV receptacle is the same as the NEMA 14-50 and comes in a surface mount weather rated enclosure that allows the cover to be closed with the cord plugged in. The cover also prevents a child from sticking something into the open outlet when the cord is removed.
Gee, that is such a good point, using a covered lockable receptacle cover to prevent little people sticking things into the open sockets!
Good idea
I think it should be noted that when installing these receptacles with NM-B cable (romex) on a 50 amp breaker you actually need to use #6 AWG wire. #8 AWG NM-B cable is only rated for 40 amps. The confusion on this comes from the rating of THHN wire, another common electrical wire. #8 AWG THHN is rated for 50 amps.
Exactly.
I’m shocked he didn’t cover this. Dustin is typically on top of code.
@@EthanMatlack To be fair, he put it on a 30 amp breaker, so he didn't violate the ampacity rating of the cable.
@@teraxiel He states that "#8 is rated for 50 amps", which is not correct in this case. It's important, because if someone watches this video they could make the same mistake in their installation.
Thank you for that comment. I agree and here is my logic as to why. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm from Michigan where we use the 2017 NEC-70. Article 334.80 states "The ampacity of Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable shall be determined in accordance with 310.15. The allowable ampacity shall not exceed that of a 60°C (140°F) rated conductor." So I would use the 60 degree column of "Table 310.15(B)(16) (formerly Table 310.16) Allowable Ampacities of Insulated Conductors Rated Up to and Including 2000 Volts", which puts #8 at a 40 amp max.
Great job. Putting the clamp is something simple, but I never thought of it. Thank you
Very informative video. I do Own a Tesla Model3 and exclusively use the mobile charger that is included with the car. I use a 14-50 at work (free juice) and a 20 amp 120v at home just to maintain charge. I highly recommend a high quality 14-50 like a Hubbell. you will pay a good bit more but as in my case it is plugged and unplugged daily.A standard 14-50 is usually used for a range that is plugged in once or twice.Look forward to more videos.
So i do a lot of these, it’s kind becoming my niche. There are many different configurations and ways of going about doing this. One of the things that’s required in my neck of the woods by inspectors is a load calculation. If the load calc puts the main panel over that 80% mark with the charger figured in then a service upgrade is required. When installing EV chargers we have to show the load calc to pull permits (IF we have to pull permits). It sucks for the customer but can mean extra dough for the business. There are EVEMS (Electric Vehicle Energy Management Systems) products out there that limit the amount of current going to the charger by monitoring the mains then supplementing left over current to the charger. These are great but can be pricey and need to be approved by the local inspector before installing (again that’s IF it has to be inspected). We always do our best to give the most cost efficient and safe options to our customers…emphasis on safe! It’s not always safe to throw a 60 amp breaker in a panel just because you have the space.
Nice write-up.
EVEMS greatly extend battery life and improve safety and grid stability. Meters should be required to answer queries about current draw so the EV charger can change the maximum charging level.
Inspectors requiring service upgrades is a corrupt scam, an EV is in total control of its draw at all times and there are dozens of ways to ensure it doesn't overdraw ever.
Literally everything else in a building is more likely than the EV to overdraw the panel.
Damn, is there any way to speak personally with you? I am also trying to make this a niche type of side work, but there are a few major questions that I have
There is so much value here for everyone. For my situation, I want to be very educated about what I’m paying my electrician for. Both for my sake so I don’t over pay, but also so I’m informed about what it’s “costing” them to do the work, both in effort, time and materials. These upgrades are crazy expensive, so being fully informed is the least I can do to be sure I’m investing properly.
Thanks! I Do remodeling, my brother inlaw and my nephew run Princeton University wiring with Armour & Sons and I have learning so much with you! That they trust my electric jobs, they are my inspectors!
Quick tip to anyone installing a NEMA 14-50 receptacle for EV service equipment! Check the orientation of the ground pin on the plug of the device! Most of them are set up for the ground pin to be at the top, and the cable hangs downward, but occasionally there may be one with a ground pin at the bottom, so make sure you orient the receptacle to match the customer's device. NEMA 14-50 is also the same connection used if a customer has a travel trailer or motorhome with a 50A hookup that they want to keep plugged in at home (though most people will just use a NEMA 5-15 adapter if they only need to keep the batteries topped off).
also, quick tip for marker mistakes! If you leave a mark somewhere and need to erase it, rubbing alcohol or some QD contact cleaner will remove Sharpie. Just make sure to use a paper towel or something and be careful not to streak it all over the place. But seriously, it is easier to just use a pencil in the first place!
Great video! Thanks for sharing!
Great writeup homie!
Thank you Dustin for reminding electricians to take a proper set of voltage readings with a meter. I work in tech support for high amp draw medical devices and it always blows my mind when someone has an equipment problem and I ask what the voltage is to it and I'm told " the electrician said it was good".
WTF is "good" on a meter? I NEED A NUMBER, DUDE! "Good" ain't no number I ever heard of.
We get that same response in the HVAC world as well. If you're not testing, then you're guessing, and my ability to help solve an issue is limited to simply guessing as well. I insist on them testing and giving accurate information. If they don't have test equipment then I tell them to call back when they do.
Great videos man! Keep ‘em coming. I’d love to learn more about 3 phase induction motor circuits. From overcurrent protection at the panel to wire size to supplemental protection and overload/thermal contractors and such. FLA, duty cycle and properly sizing components based on the motor plate etc…. I took your advise and downloaded the Ugly’s app which is amazing. But I’d still like to know more about the calculations. Cheers!
Mike Holt has great instructional videos for electricians that cover that topic.
thank you plain straight installation, no hype or BS ... have a wonderful evening !
14-50's are the bulk of my work here in California along with the tesla wall connectors. they've proven to be a very valuable skill
Good ol California! Take all the money you can for those that own EV's!
@@ElementFreedive ... because now you can use that outlet for something else, like your welder, plasma cutter, etc. You also have enough wires to feed a small sub panel if you change your mind Personally, I would have used a #6 wire (good for 70 amps) and that sub panel can feed both the car charger and another outlet or two.
@@ElementFreedive ... it's actually about how to properly wire an outlet for the charger with that style plug. IOW, the focus is on that plug and nothing else. Personally, I feel if it's a 50 amp outlet then everything else should be rated for 50 amps, even though there are loopholes. I mean, the difference in cost between #8 and #6 wire is hardly anything in the big picture and the 50 amp breaker is maybe $2 more than the 30 amp version. All he had to do is explain things to the customer about how to get a bigger bang for the buck and maybe an extra $100 isn't so bad. With the bigger wire there would be future room for two EVs at 25 - 30 amps each. Just add a small sub panel at the garage end in the future.
@@ElementFreedive install it for the EV and use it for your plasma cutter. Makes basic logical sense
@@rupe53 After they use one EV for awhile they probably won't ever own another!
Two things i'm surprised were not mentioned here, which I think are extremely important to consider when setting up for EV charging:
1) continuous load -- since an EV that's charging can draw a load for many hours at a time, there is a de-rating that must occur, or in other words, an increase in conductor size (i.e. for a 40 amp load, 6-awg where normally 8-awg would do)
I'm surprised Dustin did not account for this when he mentioned just swapping out the 30a breaker for a 50a down the road.
2) quality, or grade, of receptacle -- especially in cases where the EVSE will be plugged and unplugged regularly, it is advisable to skip the $8 home depot NEMA 14-50 receptacles and spend the extra money on a heavy duty/commercial grade version.
With 9 to 11 kilowatts flowing through the wire, the connection points, and the device, for 8 to 12 hours (or more), the case for over-speccing and overbuilding cannot be overstated enough.
My thoughts exactly. And im just a self proclaimed UTUBE ELECTRICIAN. I oversize everything fir EV charging and Generator hookups
@@billpizzaman4700 Also worth mentioning the 50 foot rule. De-rate (or thicker gauge) for any cable length over 50 feet.
There are numerous videos of melted 14-50 recepticals from a hardware store. Pay the extra for a commercial outlet.
Are commercial grade receptacles better in temperature tolerance? Asking because I use the home depot $8 receptacle for my home charging.
Heck yeah dude! I’m an apprentice and this is on our list of jobs today.
Glad to come in with my master already kinda knowing what’s going on.
This is a great video. Clear and to the point. I wish all UA-cam videos were like this
Also, the tesla official wall connector can be setup to allow lower amps. You always set it to 80% of breaker. Very easy to program it to only allow 16 amps for example. That would allow it to work on an existing awg12 wire.
You always do this? Maybe you should stop doing this and install the equip as intended. With 16amps the loss of current is way to high. Start using a real wallbox and promoting it. Those stupid wall plugs are not worth the money.
It's not the outlet with the 80% continuous duty issue. It's the breaker.
We only do hardwired charging stations (nearly 750 last year) due to that GFCI requirement on receptacles.
In reading the installation manuals for nearly all charging stations, they will state to not install them on GFCI-protected circuits as they do have built-in GFCI protection.
Per that 2020 code, receptacles will need to be GFCI protected in a garage or outside where we always install them for charging station applications.
Since all GFCI devices run a self-test cycle, the breaker will pick up when the charging station runs it's self-test cycle and thus cause that nuisance tripping.
If you hardwire a charging station, you don't need a GFCI breaker because the charging station can't be unplugged from a receptacle and leave a non-GFCI protected receptacle in an area where one is required.
Since the charging station has it's own built-in GFCI protection, all codes are met and installations will be within code.
Also, no charging station needs a neutral, so the 14-50 is really not necessary with that neutral wire.
When we did do receptacles, we always suggested a 6-50 to save on wire costs and it seems to be a little more versatile in a garage for other uses like welders and kilns.
One other thing to note is that Telsa will stop sending their cars with the mobile connector (on orders after 4/28/2022) which would be the type of charging station that would plug into a receptacle due to lack of compatibility with current code installations.
It used to be that if you did a 14-50 or 6-50, you could potentially save on installation costs but now that you would have to buy the mobile connector and install GFCI protection, there is no cost savings between a mobile connector installation with a receptacle vs. the hardwired wall connector.
Love to have further discussions about this as I know I'm not the best at speaking in non-electrical language.
Exactly how I read 2020, and have been recommending only hardwired chargers.
My read of 625.54 has this as out of compliance with code as well. It's been in the code since the 2017 cycle, and you will fail on it here.
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
Edit: yes they mention in the video at 10:45 that it's not in the 2017 code, but TIA 1242 covers this and was adopted in December 2016 after the 2017 code review cycle. So it is required for 2017 code as well. Around here inspectors started enforcing it with the 2017 code cycle. Also they mention that some EVSEs have GFCI in them - they *all* should if they want to be UL Listed. The only ones I've seen without built-in GFCI are the Amazon junk which is not UL listed.
hardwire save you cost of plug and cost of panel gfci
I hate that so many EVSE's that come with a plug have a 14-50 on them. It is a waste of wire to have that neutral there.
Does not matter if charger had built in GFCI protection if on a plug & receptacle. If cord would get nicked or cut open downstream GFCI protection would not prevent somebody from getting electrocuted from any & all upstream faulty conditions. In my 50 years as a sparky the worst shock that I ever received was from a 240 volt 3 wire twist lock cord & connector. It was a hot humid day and I was not only soaked but standing in a few inches of blood in a large slaughterhouse while just gripping plug with one hand and female cord connector with the other hand unplugging them. Went home with bad chest pains. Got hit with everything from 120,208,240, never any 480 luckily, and 5,000 volts ,( from low current oil burner ignitor transformers ).
I’ve been in the trade for over 46 years, and still working.
I love watching your videos and your the best out there.
Only one mistake so far, and it’s a crucial one.
Left Hand Rule for Electrical Devices.
I'm new to the trade, what is meant by the left hand rule?
Thank you for making this! I just found your channel and was searching for an EV outlet install video.
9:47. 8-3 NMB is rated at 40 amps maximun. A 40 or 50 amp branch circuit can supply a 50 amp receptacle. So, in the future the 2/30 breaker can only be exchanged for a 2/40 breaker and the property probably shouln't be advertised as prewired fo a 50 amp EV branch circuit.
It's been some years since I looked at the tables section in the book. #8 THHN I believe is capable of up to 55A in the ampacity/insulation tables in the back of the NEC book. #8-TW is 40A maximum. A circuit has to be D-rated depending.
@@keithhults8986 I thought I heard Dustin mention he was using #6 - 3 NM (Romex) around 4:40 min in the video then by code- under 100 amps) - (i think?) that using Romex limits you to the 60 degree column of 40 amps. Do you agree? Or if the breaker and lugs are rated at 75 degrees can you move over to the 75 % column -NEC 2020- 110.14(C)(1)(A)(3)? I am not 100% sure about this code reference
Rick
@@ricksurette7985 NM can't be rated more than 60 degrees even if the lugs are rated at a higher temperature.
@@keithhults8986 55 amps at 90 degrees for derating.
@@ricksurette7985 Like you, I am here always educating myself and sharing my thoughts. Just looking at the table, it says 55A THHN. This is where my questions begin. I don't fully grasp some of it. The ambient conditions. In conduit or sheathing? If the service equipment is 75C rated, I calculate everything on the service at the lowest C rating on the equipment. 30yrs ago, before I had any understanding about D rating, a group of us wired a bakery 3 phase. One circuit was operating at a noticeable temperature on the cable, outside the panel. Inside a panel, it looked very neat when the man tightly cable tied all the branch circuits. And he cable tied bundles of cables outside the panel also. That was my first D rating problem. It's the same as over filling a conduit. That mixer was pulling only 20A on a 10/3 BX. Why would it heat like that? Bundling 6 constant duty 3phase circuits inside the panel and outside, along the runs, caused allot of heat. I cut the ties inside the panel, and let air space occur, then I cut all the bundles of BX and refastened the cables with spacing. An hour after I finished, the branch circuits cooled down.
One question I have which does go a lot more in depth is if you have to look at a service calculation so to see if the panel (200A for example) can handle that additional load added to the service and how you would do that??
I installed a Tesla wall charger on one side of the garage, but on the other side, I installed a NEMA 6-50, which operates like a NEMA 14-50, but has no neutral. I used a G.E. Wattastation which came with a NEMA 6-50 plug. Works great. The only point being that you may need to look at your hardware before committing to the NEMA 14-50, even if it is more common.
Thanks Justin!
Quite similar to the installation of a NEMA 6-50R receptacle I/A/W NEC 70 Article 630 for electric arc and resistance Welding equipment.
As always well done 👍🏼
We've made the decision here to upsize wires by 1 size, and use only metal jboxes. Plus, we bought a few tension drivers to make sure the receptacle is tightened exactly to spec. Had a small fire from an EV on an otherwise perfect install, because the vehicle was actually pulling more current to charge than it stated it would. Ugh.
May I ask which part failed? Was it the receptacle that failed or did the wire get too hot and melt the insulation? Wasn’t the breaker sized to protect the wire? If so, then what does upsizing the wire gain? Also It’s my understanding that there are different grades of 14-50 receptacles, (just like the 120v versions from residential all the way up to hospital grade) and some low-quality 14-50 receptacles aren’t designed for six hours of 80% current load (vs a range top that is only used an hour or two per day). I’m just trying to learn from other peoples’ experiences. So thank you for any info you can provide.
@@Richard-1469 it was about 2 years ago, but I remember it was the receptacle that failed. We had run an SER cable, but I don't remember the size.
I remember some wires in the back were loose, but we couldn't tell if it was the install being over/under torqued or from fire damage.
I remember it was all 100% manufacturer specs, though, and that was why we decided to upsize the wire.
And I got to see stills from the customer's security camera. Thing lit up pretty badly.
@@imnotgreat Thank you for the info!
Only thing I would have done different is mount the double gang box onto a stud. It is a little more work but much more secure, especially for a receptacle that will get a lot of usage. For a dryer or stove a cut-in box is more than enough due to the amount of usage. But if they are going to plug in and unplug on a regular basis that is going to be a lot of work for that cut-in box to handle over the long haul and will eventually loosen up. I have had the fun of installing a few of these, and you are spot on with the video. But Tesla's are a different animal and it all depends on the charger you get. But they max out at 60A can go all the way down to a 15A supply. Don't recall the Gen 2 or first Gen specs. But the Gen 3 is a lot easier to work with.
Gen 3 maxes out at 48 Amp requires a 60 amp breaker
Amazing job not only on the install, but the video as well. Amazing..
I will be so glad when the supply chain catches back up and carlon cut in boxes aren't the on;y ones available. also, if there is only sheetrock to support a cut in box, it's best to get the hole cut against framing and secure your box to the framing. nothing worse than having your box break through the sheetrock when you try to plug in.
Soon, my electrician (nephew) will be installing a Ford Charge Station Pro, 80amp on a 100a breaker, direct wire. You guys are going to be seeing a LOT of work requests in the coming months for this type of installation!!
Do you have 200a service? That’s a lot of commitment for 100a car charger.
@@cybertrk no, we will also be updating my 100A panel, running an underground feed to a detached garage 80 feet
@@TaxmanHog holy cannoli… I feel like homes will eventually become standard with 400 amp panels if this keeps up.
Heard about this one Ford customer who wants to *simultaneously* charge 2 F-150 Lightning electric vehicles.
They're upgrading to 600 A service and paying $31k just for the utility to upgrade their end (separate from the homeowner's breaker panel\level 2 chargers\electricals at the home itself).
I feel like I'm better off waiting, rather than being an early adopter and paying $$$$$ out of pocket for something the utility would eventually do anyway.
I paid about $4k to upgrade to a 400 Amp service. I have a 100 Amp Tesla wall connector (80 amp load) and a 50 amp NEMA 6-50 G.E. Wattstation (40 amp load). I am having a tough time seeing why anyone would need 600 Amp service unless they have money to burn.
1. Use 6-gauge wire
2. Use metal box, mounted to a stud
3. Use GFCI breaker, it's required by code
4. Use 50A breaker, the NEMA 14-50 should allow up to 48A load.
But a hard-wired charger is likely the way to go.
over 100 ft you will want to make that 4awg or if its aluminum wire.
Besides the GFCI, what other parts of your list are also required by code?
And what exactly do you mean by hard wired charger?
Because he used a 30 amp breaker he does not need to use 6 gauge wire, but this is a somewhat unusual install. Probably not a code compliant installation but this is also a unique situation. Some electric cars can be programmed to charge at different ampacities. If it is programmed to charge at less than 30 amps, then everything in the installation is actually overspec-ed. Although I believe it is not code compliant to put a 50 receptacle on less than a 50 circuit, the only consequence of this install would be nuisance tripping.
Also a metal box is not necessary. It would certainly be a higher quality install with a metal box, but the plastic box used in the video is completely compliant (at least in my jurisdiction).
@@KittyKontrol850 You do not need 4awg for over 100 ft. On a 50 amp circuit the car should draw no more than 40 amps when charging. At 40 amps on 8awg wire the voltage drop over 100 ft is 2.3%, on 6awg wire its 1.5%. Neither of these voltage drops are problematic. You could of course over size your wires if you wanted, but it is not necessary.
@@fjl05 codes are local, minimal, and also evole over time. These are recommendations if you want a solid installation. For example plastic box may be up to code, but most are too flimsy for this wire thickness and regular plugging/unplugging. An industrial outlet is also highly recommended. The hard-wired chargers skip the outlet and connect to the wires directly, so you can save on the cost of wire (no neutral), the cost of outlet, and the cost of GFCI breaker.
I very much appreciate your explanation on how this is done, so I know what to expect when I do call an electrian to install mine. 👍👍👷♂️
11:27
For reference, quite a few driers (and pretty much ALL electric ranges) *ALSO* use a NEMA 14-50 connection, though I've seen many driers use a NEMA 14-30 like you mention or uncommonly a NEMA 6-30.
Older driers and ranges will often use NEMA 10-50 or 10-30, but those are non-grounded and NOT acceptable for new installations (but are grandfathers in existing installations).
334.80 Ampacity The ampacity of Types NM and NMC cable shall be determined in accordance with 310.14. The ampacity shall not exceed that of a 60°C (140°F) rated conductor.
Came here to day this lol you need 6/3 for 50 amp
I thought the same, at least if in the future a 40 Amp continuous draw is wanted. Although NEC allows us to put a breaker smaller than 50 Amps, I am not a fan of doing so because the next home owners will not know that the 14-50 receptacle has a 30 Amp O
An alternative here would have been to put a 6-30 receptacle: one less wire, and the circuit would match the customer preference. And then 8/3 or 10/3 Romex would suffice.
Sound right ?
@@ericgold3840 NEC allows a 14-50 receptacle on a 40 A circuit, but doesn't allow it with a 30A circuit. That combination of wire and receptacle can only be used with a 40 A breaker.
@@SaigaGameClips that's exactly what I was thinking number 8 THHN at 75° is rated for 50 amps but number 8 Romex at 60° is not rated for 50 amps
Yep. 8AWG Romex is on the 60c column and therefore rated for 40A. 6AWG would be 55A.
Good explanation on wire and breaker size. I installed a Nema 5 using 12 gauge wire to charge my Leaf which draws 16 amps (I used a 20 A breaker). The wiring passed the mandatory inspection but I still had a fire at the outlet. No cause could be found despite speaking with the electrical inspector, other electricians and Leviton, the maker of the Nema 5. I then pulled out the 12 gauge wire and replaced it with 10 gauge, and replaced the 20 A Nema 5 with another identical one. Had another fire. I then rewired the 10 gauge to a 30 A double pole breaker and installed a Nema 6 (my charger accepts 240 or 120 V). I monitored this closely and realized I was about to have another fire. Pulled the plug before the bad stuff started. I brainstormed and after much research figured out the problem. Because an electric car gobbles enormous chunks of currant for hours on end there is a heat build up that does not normally occur with appliances that are only running for a few minutes, then shut off. To make matters worse the heat had nowhere to go as this is an outdoor receptacle and the bubble cover traps the heat. My solution was to rip off the bubble cover. The heat problem has now been solved and there are no more fires. But I like the Nema 14-50 you are using. It has larger contacts which will absorb and release the heat more easily than my puny Nema 6. Next time I wire for an electric car I will I will install that instead.
Wow. What brand receptacles have you been using? The EV forums note the Leviton outlets have led to fires, but that is usually at 40A on a 16-50R.
Good video, thanks.
Even the Chevy Bolt takes more than 30 amps, mine maxes out at 32.4 according to the EVSE. Might not be enough to pop a 30A breaker, but any newer/fancier car will likely pull more than 30A.
//There's a setting in the Bolt that will ping your phone, or I think even honk the horn if the charging is interrupted before it's complete. I think Teslas have that too.
I helped install a 14-50 in my house just a few months ago, learning about electrical work to not get scammed is what brought me to this channel. The electrician we found is about 800 years old and I ended up doing most of the work but it's probably good he was there to check my work at least. I've done some stuff like that before helping out my general contractor gramps, but it's been a while, and nothing as potentially dangerous as this. I chose to use 6/3 because it loses less energy over the run, plus if I do get a fancier car in the future I'll want to have the full 50A available. Was a real pain to get into the outdoor RV box we got, but it eventually went in.
That was actually the 2nd job we hired him for, first was to replace the 10-30 powering the dryer because it exploded when I unplugged the dryer to try plugging in a smaller EVSE. He got that done quick and easy, but then the dryer and EVSE I got weren't working... I tore the dryer apart checking its fuse and coils, and sent the EVSE back to get replaced, but they were fine. Eventually when he came back to do the 14-50 I asked him to double check his work on the dryer outlet, turns out the circuit breaker had failed too. If he'd taken a minute to check the plug it would've been obvious. Testing is important.
It's true that lots of cars can pull 30 A or more, but they don't need it. The EVSE ("charger") sends a signal to the car to tell it how much current it can draw. If it's set up for 24 A on a 30 A circuit, neither the Chevy Bolt nor any bigger EV will draw any more than 24 A.
It will depend on the EVSE that's being installed.
While the _car_ may support charging at higher current, many owners don't need higher amperage charging at home. They are charging overnight and can top up the battery easily at lower current. So they may choose to buy a less expensive EVSE that only supports lower current.
And of course, if the EVSE itself only support, for example, 5 kW charging (20 A), the car is not going to charge any faster than that, no matter what its nominal max charging rate is.
Nice, awesome job man thanks.
Great job Justin. FYI - Tesla requires #6 AWG. Also, limit continuous use (current draw 3 hours or more) to 80% of capacity. I have replaced 50 amp RV outlets because they melted with car charging at 48 amps. Luckily, the homeowner didn’t have a fire.
L2 car chargers (what he is referencing in the video) are built for 40A charging, so a 50A receptacle is compliant with the 80% capacity.
most chargers don't go full beans for 3 hours+ anymore, do they?
Interesting, Tesla's mobile charger that is included with the car will only do 32 amps (with the 14-50 adapter). They sell an special 14-50 mobile charger that does 40 amps. Both use a 14-50. Must have been a non-tesla that was able to pull 48 amps on a 14-50.
@@wim0104 A Tesla EV has a 80-100KWh battery. You can do the math... It can go for 10 hours at 40 amps depending on the secondary voltage (240 or 208).
@@djmaster1995 Original "Gen 1" Tesla mobile chargers do charge at 40A when plugged into a 50A source. They haven't sold them for years, but Tesla still carries some of the plug adapters on their website.
It seems to me that those two little plastic flaps aren’t going to be strong enough to hold the box in the wall against the typical forces involved when unplugging such a large cable. Fortunately it won’t get unplugged very often, but maybe just a few times doing it could loosen or break the flaps.
You have to use your judgment on something like that, that's where the faceplate does a lot to stabilize & back-up that receptacle, against the pulling and pushing of plugging and unplugging.
Here in Europe these flaps are made of steel mounted on a 2 inch (philips 1)screws,..and little bit sharp and hooked shape by the corners to grab Wood ,dry wall ,etc..👍
@@SachsVDE no one cares this is America
Came here to say the same thing! Those plugs are always SUPER tight. You plug and unplug that more than a few times and that box is coming out with it!!!
I don't like those plastic flap boxes at all.
Sir. You are a life saver of helping/teaching about electricity and everything connected. Awsome video for ALL, BEING BEGINNERS or PROFESSIONALS to watch and or save for reference forever. You come across-the-board of being Ginuwine humble, caring, wanting people to have as much knowledge of insight related to electricity from understanding, safty, respect, install(s) and more.
For everyone that watches videos, like this, remember if there is an opportunity/optional to support a channel, this guy/channel is well worth doing so. Please support or donate if able.
I make this post / comment of my and I do not know the electrician at or on any level. I am not in anyway compensated for my comment. I make this comment because I have watched many many crappy hard to understand frustrating videos of my Electric needs for info that be easy to understand AS MOST title..... but this one IS THE ONE.
Awesome video and thanks for the info 👍 I’m an auto technician so I sometimes run and repair vehicle wiring. Im pretty handy as well. I do most of my home improvements. might just think about tackling this job myself 🤔 but still I’m not a professional electrician
Do your AHJ require you to do load calculations on the panels you install in? Might want to go over that also if it is required.
In Florida they do not. Would only take minutes to do it though and most houses have a 150a or 200a service for newer homes and they don't even come close to touching all of that.
Nice, useful video. You made a couple mistakes, though:
- The 2017 NEC still requires EV charging outlets to be GFI protected (625.40). Even in the absence of that, 210.8 requires all garage receptacles to be grounded so you should put a GFI breaker in regardless.
- As others have pointed out, 8g NM cable is only rated to 60º C so you can't use it for 50A.
I have an EV and for the vast majority of uses 30A is plenty of current to charge. At this point, why not just put in a 30A outlet, though?
Any UL listed EVSE has GFCI in it, so the EV charging is GFCI protected even though the receptacle isn't. Still, better to hardwire it and avoid having an unprotected receptacle.
@@charliesullivan4304 A permanent unit will be hard wired and thus not require a receptacle. If it you are installing a receptacle you need GFCI per code. Note that any GFI protection of the unit will only work downstream, not at the receptacle. A GFCI breaker will protect the user from potential shock when plugging/unplugging at the receptacle.
@@ptester1 code allows for "stationary equipment fastened in place" and connected to a receptacle. I recommend hardwiring but codes only requires hardwiring if it is "fixed" not just fastened. And you are absolutely right about the hazards of a receptacle without GFCI.
Very informative. Thank you for the video.
This kind of information is very helpful.
Thank you.
Nitpick of the day: the device being plugged in is not a charger, it is an EVSE. The charger is in the car.
Very nice job. It's good that they had a couple of spare slots in their panel for the 2-pole 30A breaker. What was the electrical service at their house: 100A, 200A, or more? Most technical discussions that I have with electricians say that they need 200A service to install. I've got an EV, but haven't put a Level 2 charger in my house, given that it's 100A underground service with no space left in the main panel. I've also got a few inexpensive and free L2 and L3 chargers within a mile of my house, so I've used only the 120V trickle charger at home.
A free L3 charger? Original, original Tesla buyers have that. Have not heard of other
locations being so benevolent? Thank you.
I install EV’s on 100 Amp panels all the time, just need to install the Electric Vehicle Energy Management System (EVEMS).
Depending on the other loads, you might be fine with moderate current L2 setup (16 to 32 A, probably not 40). You can do the calculation, or you can monitor for 30 days or more, or you can get a Wallbox Pulsar plus with the load management option that automatically adjusts the charging rate to stay within your capacity.
@@tedlahm5740 Chargers at Nissan dealerships are free for Nissan Leaf (and soon Ariya) owners.
@@charliesullivan4304 I've heard of that, but I'm completely out of space in the main panel, no room at all to slide in a two-pole breaker of any amps. At a minimum I'd have to install a sub panel and move some loads around to the sub, or upgrade the main panel. And if I upgrade to 200 amps, that'd require a new panel on top of running new service cables underground from the street. At some point it'd make sense to install an L2 charger at home, but with the public chargers nearby, installing an L2 right now is cost prohibitive.
Great information. I usually test these as well:
Left hot to right hot = 240V
From each hot to ground = 123V
From each hot to neutral = 123V
From neutral to ground = 0V
Worked at a newspaper for many years. They would go crazy with GFCI breakers or cords with GFCI. Some are more sensitive than others. The problem is that when the lights would blink, the breakers would trip. We're talking Air compressors, Film Processors and other machines. So, if you can put a trip alarm on the service so you could tell if it tripped I would.
Awesome tutorial! I put in a 14-30 receptacle for my car and its right under the panel too, so a pretty easy install. My car actually can only pull up to 20A but I wanted to future proof it for a bigger battery car later on. Plus I actually charge on 120v more often than I thought I would, so my fast charger sits a lot
I would highly recommend installing a 50 amp receptacle for electric vehicles.
Make sure the 14-50 you would use is industrial grade about $100, not the $10 ones at HD
For NM cable, don't you have to use the 60 degree column? In that case, its ampacity is 40 amps. An alternative is to fish ENT and run THHN through it. Since the receptacle and panel connections are gonna be rated for 75 degrees, you can use that column, which does give you 50 amps.
Also, 210.21(B)(1) "A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit". How can you get away with installing an individual 50A receptacle on a 30A branch circuit?
or surface mount EMT? What is 6 gauge good for in rigid/emt? That's what I installed on my welder outlet, wonder how big I can go for charging cars. I know, google.
"Not less" means more than or equal to
Because 50 is not less than 30. Putting a 50A outlet on a 30A circuit is perfectly fine. Putting a 30A outlet on a 50A circuit is not.
@@1Gigawatt Yeah "not less than" means 50 amp receptacle on 30 amp wire is OK, because 50 amps is "not less than" 30 amps. Seems just fine to have overkill receptacles by that code. . .
@@stargazer7644 which begs the question: WHY? What would go wrong with a 30 amp receptacle on bigger wire?
Great vid. I retired too early. Heard of a contractor charging $7,500 for a NEMA 14-50 50 amp EV Charger receptacle. Took him & a helper only a day to run a little over 100' of 1" conduit.
While I’ve never ever complained about how much skilled tradespeople charge and make, and I myself work in a very highly paid health care job, if an electrician quoted me $7,500 to install an EV charger, I’d return the car and by an IC powered one.
I'd find another electrician.
Thanks so much for the information, love the video. What has to happen if my wall box doesn't have any unused breakers/slots left?
Just to add on to everyone saying that you should be using #6 instead of #8 romex...If you were using #6 you'd also have to move up to a 40 cu in box (4 conductors counting the ground since it leaves the box, double yoke counts as 4 more conductors for a total of 8. #6 is 5 cu in per conductor according to 314.16(B))
Mark, Do you need to count the internal clamps for plastic boxes? So would it be a total on 9 ? Rick
That's what I was thinking
@@ricksurette7985 my understanding is that the built-in clamps on a plastic box don’t count towards the fill. The only time you have to count clamps is when you put a screw clamp inside the box
I will add my 5 cents. Good video as usual.
Why not hard wire the charger? To me it makes sense as you only need to pull 2+ ground conductors. The charger has built in gfci so you are covered there. You commission the charger and set it’s max current draw so you won’t ever make a mistake and try to draw 50 amps from 14-50 with a 30A breaker.
I'm a fan of plugging in because it means if the charger breaks, if I want to take it to another location, or if I move I can quickly take it with me.
The extra 8 amps you get with a 60amp circuit isn't really worth it.
It's always done per customer request because maybe they have a charger that is portable and plugs in
...... The more you know....
Nice explanation of the process, and the tech.
Solid info in this vid. Helped me a lot.
If the electrician you’ve hired has to watch this video prior to doing the job, you might just want to do it yourself...
New tech comes out all the time and takes a while to be commonplace. I havent installed an EV in 5 years, so I came here for a refresher.
@@nickford1286 nothing about this video is “new tech”. It’s the same electric dryer/stove/welder circuit that has been around for decades.
A commercial, industrial, hospital, or many other types of electricians don't do this type of work. It doesn't hurt to have a look over.
If my doctor wants to look over a procedure before he performs it on me, should I just go ahead and do it myself?
@@s.n.9485 yes, you should... Or preferably find a new doctor. Please tell me which part of fishing a set of conductors, installing a box, and landing in a panel is foreign to commercial electricians. Have you ever been in a hospital? They have walls and receptacles... As do industrial sites.
@@s.n.9485 Lol. Commercial /Industrial Electricians are well beyond Goat Roping Houses. No problem.
A couple things. Installing EV chargers is all that I do. It is getting to the point that I will not install an outlet but only do hardwired units. Some AHJ will require a gfic breaker, the outlet needs a neutral even though the chargers do not use the neutral and the cheaper outlets have been having major issues. My last install included a Hubbell outlet at $164. None of the RV exterior enclosures will accept the commercial grade outlets the diameter of the actual outlet is larger. Concerning wire size, many units will now specify wire size or temp rating and inspectors are wanting to see the instruction manual. If the manual states 90degree wire, romex is out. All my installs are now thhn in conduit.
Hubbell is the way to go. No risk of ground touch exposed nuts
What about copper SEU? It does exist. It is annoying that the chargers spec copper in this era. We have been using aluminum for everything over 20 amps pretty much these days unless it specs copper for some reason.
@@nspro931 Most units we install spec copper and 90 degree. I have had inspectors read that to mean that if I use romex, I need to lower the breaker to 50 and the output then to 40 if hardwired and then ok if an outlet. I have had #6 SEU pass as well. Mostly I try to only install hardwired with #6 thhn in conduit. Always check with your local inspections dept.
Well done. A good discussion
These are also used on some welders and such. I have a harbor freight welder that says it's rated for 30a but uses this 14-50 outlet, so that's what i installed.
Most EVs can be current limited in the cars settings, Tesla's will remember by GPS location... I would always install the biggest breaker for your plug and just tell the car to limit its draw rather than waste time/money calling an electrician later when you realize you could be charging your car in half the time at the full current.
I have never heard of using a breaker to purposely limit current to a receptacle.
@@normferguson2769 when you think about it the sole purpose of a breaker is to limit current to anything downstream. Only time it'd make sense to undersize is if the EV doesn't have current limiting or panel would be overloaded otherwise
_"just tell the car to limit its draw"_ -- No. I mean, yes, do that. It's fine to program the car to charge at a lower current than the EVSE is nominally capable of, and doing so has some benefits, like extending the car's battery life by charging it more slowly.
But no, that does something **completely different** from using an appropriately-sized (smaller) breaker and suggesting doing so as an alternative to using an appropriately-sized breaker is **really bad advice.**
The breaker is there to cut off the power supply if something goes wrong and the equipment draws more current than it's supposed to. If your EVSE is capable of charging at 40 A, and the car is capable of charging at 40 A, but there's a 30 A breaker, the breaker is just going to _turn off_ the circuit. It's not going to limit charging to 30 A; that's the job of the car and/or the EVSE.
The point of putting a breaker in that is sized appropriately for the EVSE is so that if the EVSE has any kind of failure that causes it to draw more current than it's designed for, the circuit will be turned off by the breaker before anything gets got enough to start a fire. It might even limit damage to the EVSE itself in a way that would allow for it to be repaired instead of having to be replaced outright.
Programming the car to charge at a lower rate does **nothing whatsoever** to accomplish the safety benefit of putting in a breaker that's the correct size for the EVSE that will be attached to the circuit.
@@harvey66616 huh?
Love your videos. I’ve converted my electrical contracting to focusing on installing EVSE’s. You didn’t talk about completing a demand load calculation prior to the installation. We have to take EVSE at 100%, so, it’s not often you can install it on a 100 Amp service, usually have to install an Electric Vehicle Energy Management System (EVEMS), otherwise, have to upgrade. I’m in Canada though, maybe you are different in the states! But Canada normally follows the NEC after a few years delay.
Which load management system do you use? In Canada, the Elmac EVduty system looks nice but it doesn't seem to be available in the US, where the Wallbox Pulsar plus seems to be the best one with that capability. The DCC relay boxes are the other option but that seems wasteful, because then you have two separate contactors.
@@charliesullivan4304 I use the DCC system. The local distributor started stocking it for me.
I appreciate this one. We have a Client wanting one installed
Great video Dustin!!
I’d be REALLY worried if my electrician I just hired is watching this UA-cam video to learn how to install it 😳
More people should consider a 6-50R over the 14-50R if they are only using the receptacle to charge cars. EVSEs do not need a neutral and the industrial grade receptacles and wiring is cheaper. Although many EVSEs come with a 14-50p for some reason.
If you solely want to have an EV charger… if you’re making the investment, then it’s worth the extra $2.45/ft to do a 8/3 wire. Gives you more options for your 240 receptacle.
I've seen and replaced 4 wall charging units wired with #8 on 40amp breakers, all 4 had caught fire. When it comes to EV charging, 30amps is the max breaker size I would use for #8.
Thanks a ton for this video
I'm not an electrician, I mostly do refrigeration and equipment repair, but I naturally do a lot of electrical. Whenever I install a receptacle or switch, I always tape around the outlet covering the conductors, that way the ground wire can't really short anything
Definently not a bad idea, but this isn't required by code and you won't find many of us who do it outside of metal boxes, where the whole box is bonded to the ground. Solid copper will stay in the shape you bend it into pretty much permanently, so with experience you learn how to bend the conductors properly to tuck everything into the box without issues.
For those that may not realize this, this plug is actually the same type of 50 amp 4 prong plug and circuit that your electric stove actually plugs into. If at some point you changed out your stove to a gas stove and if the wire is long enough and you never plan to go back to an electric stove, you might actually be able to redirect the wire and relocate the plug to where you want the charger.
The 7 people in the world that this very specific situation would apply to thank you.
@@stargazer7644 7 folks charge their car in their dinging room.
I don't think people with EV would consider convert their electric stove to gas (it sounds rather akward) ;)
Not sure what the laws are like where you are but where I live that will break code because they must have a outlet for a electric stove top.
@@stargazer7644 shows how much you know about it, you think everybody lives in a new house, a lot of people have terminated electric stoves to go back to gas, which cost much less. Then you have 50 amps of 240 that you can utilize.240, or for other power at 120.
Hey Dustin I love recommending your videos to new guys starting the trade but FYI that's not 50A cable based on 310.15(B)(16) (2017 reference)
Hi, I kindly appreciate your great work and videos. I need to know where you purchase the plate cover for this job? NEMA 14-50 cover. I installed one for my dryer but can't locate a nice finish plate. If I can the online store that will be helpful. Thanks!
FYI, while the NEMA 14-50 is the most common receptacle, many car manufacturers support other plugs also. I recently installed a plug in a jurisdiction that mandates conduit. There was existing conduit where we needed to go, but the conduit only accommodated 2 #8 thhn. As far as I can tell the cars don't use the neutral anyways and Tesla sells a 6-50 adapter, which is the same thing as the 14-50 less the neutral. Some appliances like stoves use both 240v and 120v for the heating element and clock respectively, but I don't think the EVs make use of the 120v. It's just the most common existing receptacle, thus the most common plug.
If a 50A motorhome is pluged in it will need the neutral.
8 awg in romex is not rated for 50 amps. It's rated for 40 amps per 310.15 b2 60 degree column
Your a funny guy bud. I can't believe you actually have to add use a pencil not a sharpie when tracing your old work box lol. Keep up the great work my man.
excellent information ..... greetings from Mexico
I love doing EV installs. I’ll have to a video too.
"have to a video"?
@@snap-off5383 I bet he means, "I'll have to DO a video too." 🙄
@@donl1410 Whoa captain obvious, you blew me away there with your perceptiveness.
@@snap-off5383 If tou knew, what was your question? Mr. grammer corrector.
@@donl1410 Reminder to proofread. Its not grammar that is lacking but rather an ethic/motivation.
Many viewers may not actually understand that the load governs the
amount of current drawn.
Exactly you're overcurrent and comparable wires and receptacles are dependent on what you're trying to power. How many amps is it drawing? You're talking about a dedicated 240 circuit. And how many amps of 240 determines how you wire it. From overcurrent, wires to receptacle.
Also, some people don't understand that the EVSE sends a signal to the car to tell it how much current it is allowed to draw on a particular connection.
@@charliesullivan4304 Count me in, as one.
Dustin ! Can you do a video on the basics of Switch gear and how they function ?
Nice video, anybody comfortable running 240 VAC should be competent in doing this saving huge install $$’s.
I love how the house has like, 150 amp service and there are like 4 disconnects outside 😂
Maybe it's a town/row house and each residence has its own service?
8/3 romex can be protected at 50A?
No
I recently did my continuing education to keep my masters license on ev charger circuits.
The instructor cautioned that the 50 amp range outlets are the source of many fires.
They aren't manufactured for continuous duty at 43 amps and melt down. Havent seen it in person yet, but incourage direct wire installations just in case.
Great and informative video! Question. Does the circuit for electric car charging have to be dedicated to that one purpose, or can it be at the end of a daisy chain of a couple more outlets supplying 220 to other devices like a table saw?
Dedicated is the only way
Don't know if my township is following the latest NEC codes for mostly all GFCI/Arc breakers. However I think they are more nuisance than safety. All my electricians ever told me that installing a gfci outlet or breaker can trip them when running machinery like washer, dryers, vacuums, tools, etc. Who wants to find out there dryer stop running half way through the next day. Just my two cents of thought.
if your equipment is tripping your GFCI/AFCI breakers, there is a problem with your equipment.
@@kenbrown2808 . . . or the breaker. Finished that for you.
@@snap-off5383 we've come about 20 years since Cutler Hammer had a 20% defective rate on their AFCI breakers. 95% of the time or more, a nuisance tripping breaker is doing its job.
@@kenbrown2808 Ok, 95% means 100%. Gotcha.
@@snap-off5383 ok, your real first name is Jack. gotcha.
8/3? Why not 6/3. You have some explaining to do.
Would like to see securing in the attic. Could you do a video on that?
Great video
You can use #8 THHN on a 50 amp breaker but not #8 romex unless I'm taking crazy pills...
I agree #8 is not correct
@@tikigodsrule2317 #8 is correct since plug-in chargers only use 32 amps but should be protected at 40, hard wired can go up to 60 and those should be on a #6
Not all plug-in chargers go to 32A, many go to 40A. 30A breaker and 8/3 is only appropriate if the charger connected was going to use 24A.
I thought 8/3 was only rated for 40 amps? I thought 6/3 was 55 amps?
I thought so too
Depends on the temperature rating of the install. In the code book there is a chart listing that information. In this case he installed a breaker that was much lower than the current rating of the conductor or receptacle, so it is safe either way.
He also mentioned that that’s what the customer wanted. Customer didn’t want to overload. You can do a 50 amp breaker for 6/3 wire.
@@athhud If it's type NM (Romex), you have to use the 60 degree rating.
60 for nm load rating, but 75 for derating
I got a "portable" level 2 (220V) charger from Amazon and had an electrician put in a standard electric dryer receptacle. Portable charger runs at 16 amps, I've never had a problem with it tripping the circuit breaker.
yeah right, and you are loosing quiet a lot of energy charing this way.
Thank you so much!
I hate panels that are flush with the finish sheet rock. It is so hard to fish a line down into it. Very frustrating indeed
Also note that most EVSEs have no need for 125v so if the Cx would like to save a bit on material, 8/2 with a 6-50 can be used instead.
I would preferred to see a 60A, 240V, 2Pole disconnect switch, ahead of the receptacle, at the garage, in the event you need to quickly disconnect the power. I too would prefer #6/3 w/G NM-B (Romex) as the preferred wire size. The larger wire also reduces the voltage drop under load.
Many comments have addressed it, but 8 gauge wire, 8/2 or 8/3, is not rated for 50A in this install. You mention at 9:48 it is 50A wire, but since it is NM cable you have to use the 60C rating which is 40A. Also by the "80%" or "125%" rule or whatever you want to call it, larger cable would be required with a 50A breaker. You would need 6 gauge wire, which is rated for 55A at 60C, in order to use a 50A breaker with this circuit. For some specific applications you can undersize the wire on a 50A receptacle circuit, but I wouldn't.
Why do you need a neutral? Are there 2 "logical" blocks of batteries requiring 120V each?
It's my understanding that breakers only "restrict" the amount of current by tripping. Fine tuning how much current is drawn is determined somewhere else.
Can you then make an adapting extension cord from a standard 220V 20A outlet to charge a car? Or is 30A with a neutral the bare minimum?
One more question: Am I too clever for my own good?
not so far. the answer is, at least with tesla portable chargers, you don't need a neutral. they build an adaptor for every common straight blade receptacle, other chargers may use 120V control circuits, so I can't speak or everything. and yes, the breaker's only "control" of the circuit is to trip. one reason for putting a 30A breaker on a 50A circuit is if the current charger is only a 30A rated charger, but you may be getting a bigger charger in the future.
and most cars can charge from a 15A receptacle, but slowly.
Here's some more details. The Nissan uses a SAE J1772 connector. There are 3 power pins: L1, N, and PE. The charger senses whether it's plugged into a 110V outlet (using an adapter) or a 220V outlet (no adapter). When it's on a 110V outlet, L1 is 120V and N is neutral. On a 220V outlet, N is effectively switched to L2, so you have 220V across those two pins. PE is always protective earth. Since it possible to use a NEMA 14-50 to NEMA 5-15 adapter, neutral HAS to be present. So whether or not the charger actually uses the neutral line in a 220V configuration, it has to be present in case an adapter is used.
You need a neutral because the receptacle is a three pole four wire grounding recep.
@@JCWren you are looking at it backwards. a 120/240V receptacle HAS to have the neutral wire connected to be a proper installation. however, a J1772 connector has a ground pin, two power pins, and an internal signal set which is used to tell the car that you are about to unplug it, and it shuts down the charge to prevent arcs.
so the charging system ALWAYS uses a two wire circuit - so the charger does not require a neutral connection for a level 2 charge. the receptacle is just chosen for standardization, and you can get adapters to plug the charger into a receptacle without a neutral.
Needed to be 6 awg for 50 amp.
receptacle.
If it's a 48 amp load, this is considered a continuous load, 3 hours or more, you have to rate it at 125%, 60 amp.
also gfi protection required on 240 volt receptacle in a garage.
Must not have pulled a permit.
He explains in the video why he didn't need to put it on a GFCI breaker.
Hi Dustin, is that box listed to be used with conductors larger than #10? It may have the right volume but I don’t think the internal clamps can be used with #8.
On a NEMA 14-50 receptacle you need to provide a neutral conductor to it because of the receptacle format. However and electric vehicle charger doesn't use t neutral. It just used the 2 live conductors and the equipment grounding conductor (240 volt only).