Why Are These LiFePO4 Batteries From Amazon So Bad?
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2023
- This Is Why Budget Batteries Are No Good. We're Going To Dissect These Batteries And Find Out Why They Are So Bad.
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#hamradio #k8mrd #parksontheair - Наука та технологія
Brave to use an oscillating cutter to open LFP batts! 8GA wire is good, but those contacts remind of a iron that's not hot enough for a proper job. Or solder that's not matched for the task.
Mixed cell capacities, dangit! Oof. OH8STN is owed props for my ability to follow along a deconstruct with a critical eye. Word.
Lastly, Mike. Good on you for presenting the info to the community. Thanks man and happy friday.
I am using similar 32700 6ah cells in my ups since 2017. And they have held up really well. It is in 8s2p pack..25.6v 12ah and it powers a 300w load for 45mins , considering my ups is 89% efficient according to apc at 300w load. I would say they all test out to be full capacity even in 2023. These are 5-6 years old now. I paid 50$ for 16 of them from a local shop. Exactly look like the blue cells. These are storage battery cells not meant for starter application.
Recomended discharge is 1c and maximum discharge is 3c.. I have tested them upto 2c and they heatup to 50c (35 ambient) but provide nearly full capacity.
Here in Eswatini you buy a solar floodlight and if you open it you find huge batteries that have barely any lifespan. The blue unmarked look like 18650 we find inside cheap bluetooth speakers and I strip laptop battery packs from discarded laptops in order to use the strongest 2 cells to replace that piece of crap. Most of those fake blue cells have also a much lower weight. Thanks for your video and warning people. Saves them money and avoids disappointment.
Now I don't feel quite as bad about paying for Bioenno.
Bought my 40Ah for $430...NO regrets!
I own only two Chicom batts and they both continue to serve after two plus years. Miadi brand; a 16 aH and a twenty. I'll take my business to the CA outfit that predates Bioenno and Miadi which made the others the next time I need replacements, based on what MRD has shown here.
Thanks again.
You could see the grind marks on the negative of the large diameter (5900/6000mAh) cells, where they had removed the spot welds from their previous life.
There is probably some good cells in all of that. Where ever there is parallel cells in a pack, any bad ones will drag the others in that parallel array down. I certainly wouldn't just throw those away without doing some further testing, and the BMS are probably all OK for re-use in a new pack.
I just got a ZKE tester for 16 304Ah grade b cells I bought from Alibaba at the end of 2021. All QR codes scan to end of June 2021 and my 40A full discharge test (11 done so far...) revealed capacities from 310 to 315Ah which is frankly amazing. I'm rather relieved!
I have found that the cells, as long as they haven't leaked or swollen, are usually OK. It is usually the BMS board which is the problem. I recharge each cell at 4.2V @ less than 1A current limited to bring them up to full capacity, ensuring they don't get hot! Then I reassemble the pack with a NEW BMS, and take them out on POTA or BOTA. No problems so far. Bruce VK2EM
Max charge voltage for these lifepo4 cells is 3.6v
@@timmccall8318 Yep, I believe it is actually 3.65 volts. Some battery manufacturers recommend slightly less for better longevity of battery life and more charge/discharge cycles. For my 12.8 volt LiFePo4 batteries I regularly charge to 14.4 V and don’t notice any less capacity out in the field. But, I can see how people would want to fully charge batteries that are already too small for their applications… to try to get every last electron out of the battery.
- I echo the voltage concerns, make sure the top voltage is correct for the cell chemistry, or you will have a shortened experience with those cells.
@@JiminicoYes, 3.65V is the absolute max, but 3.45V is recommended, with absorption as current decreases. Similarly, absolute discharge is 2.5V, but you don't really want to go below about 3.1V as the capacity outside these voltages is minimal and doing so greatly reduces their lifespan.
I picked up a LiTime 12AH for $61 shipped direct from them in Ca. On my CBA, they test at 12.3AH. I ran them on the CBA analyzer down to where the BMS cut out. I also have a set of LiTime 100AH for my 750W off grid solar system. Same results on the CBA. These LiTime batteries are what they say they are! Also they have superb customer service. I lost my recipts and dropped them an email and had a response with the recipts in 12hrs.
I've had great luck with a Newmark 10 ah battery. Of course i use it with a G90 @ 20 watts and haven't been able to kill it. I've done 3 days of POTA and it held up great.
I have their 50ah and use with a Ftdx 10 and will run its full capacity. The only thing I have noticed is the voltage isn’t as high as more expensive brands but works at 100w.
The last battery had whats called re-wrapped cells - where an unscrupulous seller takes second hand cells, removes the wrapper and puts the cell in a new one, hence no markings.
Great video, I was hoping that you would take the blue wrapper off the last battery cells to see if there was a printed code number on the metal cell casing itself.
he's breaking it he's breaking it🤣🤣🤣
I have two Nermaak 10 ah batteries. I haven't done any testing, they haven't given me troubles, but have not tested them.
What did you use to test them?
I think I’ll stick with BioEnno
Very weird to me that somebody got out of bed today, stretch and said, "lets go to the factory and phone it in"... id imagine it would take the same amount of time to research and source good parts as bad, the margin and reputation damage cant be worth it. Besides, get b-grade used cells for a 6ah and label it a 5ah... thats easy. "Tested and certified b-grade batts" - I'd buy that.
Mike, great video as usual. Interesting to see how these cheap batteries are put together. Have you opened a Bioenno? I'd be interested in seeing what those are built like since they perform so damn well.
I accidentally opened my 15Ah Bioenno when I dropped it on asphalt, along the top edge. When I was done freaking out…I was very happy to see solid connections everywhere. I didn’t pry anything out but I was satisfied I bought good stuff. For the past 17 months I’ve used it almost every day to power my 891 at 70w. Very happy!
@@joekrepps Wow.. well that's one way to crack it open. Glad to hear they're built well! Mine has done very well over the last two years. I had an 891 as well, great rig! Hope it serves you well for many more years.
Just found your channel - great stuff!
There is an old saying "buy once, cry once". I get Bioenno.
I went BattleBorn for mine.
Because of air cargo hazmat regs, it's really difficult to get anyone to ship any lifepo4 batteries to Hawai'i. Eci Power is willing to ship here, but their shipping costs are quite spendy.
Ive got nothing to compare to, but so far, they seem to be performing as advertised.
Thanks! You keep saving me money!
I’m driving down I-45 passing signs for Huntsville State Park right now. Headed to do some POTA for the first time at Galveston Island State Park. 73 KX8Z
Nice video Mike. I was curious if the BMS circuits could be recycled in DIY projects? 🤔
well just remember you get what you pay for🤣
I enjoy watching the disection of these batteries, just to see the magic inside! It seems the last one was "built" very well, with the exception of good cells! After watching this again, it occured to me that maybe these were "brand new" in 2020 & 2021. But possibly, just got stuck in some shipping container, in the "Closed" shipping ports in California, during the covid pandemic!? The shelf life should still be good, but maybe the heat got to them? Of course that one battery had mismatched cells (POS)! Or its just New cheap crap!? We will never know!
No, they are simply recycled cells. Where do you think that e-waste goes? Think about it....
Smokin gun: unmatched cells. Awesome find.
Interesting. The larger batteries from Amazon like the 100 amp hour ones in general seem to be very good. I'm running a set of five litime 100 amp hour batteries in my camper and they All meet advertised capacity and output capability.
I wonder what load and environment they were tested in? that is one of the major factors. If he tested them at the same as a 100 amp hour pack they will all test very poor, but on the other side my homemade 200Ah pack tests at 224Ah on the same test parameters due to actual cell c-rating.
I would love to see a tear down of a Bioenno. I have yet to see one. I have used LiTime batteries for other projects prior to getting back into radio. They are very high quality lots of tear down reviews on UA-cam. They seem to be the best value in LiFePO4 i've found.
As a hobbyist\experimenter, if the price is right and understanding the actual capacity I could certainly find a use for them.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that you will NOT be able to return these for refund. Just a guess.
He WOULD be able to return for a refund, but he would have to pay the $100 return shipping fee.
I bought a luggage rack for $40 for my motorcycle, from a Chinese Ebay company. It doesn't fit, but FedEx told me that it would cost me $100 to return it to China. True!
Could you take one apart with an AR-15? For the science.
you mean like this? ua-cam.com/video/wZWZ4G4_V24/v-deo.html
Nice Tear down video. What is your opinion of Renogy?
I've not used one so I don't have an opinion of them.
I'm kinda sad to see you're only covering the little ones here. I do see you've covered bigger ones in older episodes so I'm off to look at them next. This is current so I figured you're more likely to spot it here and, it is about the same things, just on a bigger scale soooo.
Recently I've been building up a live camping with some home luxuries type setup and bought about 7 fold up solar panel arrangements ranging from 120 Watt ones to a 250 watt one. I have tested the different ones and as expected, didn't get the stated currents but, it is winter here in Australia so the sun is low in the sky and there is a reasonable amount of both smog and salt spray in the air here and allowing for all that, they did do pretty well with the 120 watt ones putting out about 75 watts and a 150 watt one putting out around 95 watts with persistent very light wispy cloud so, pretty good and no real complaints there.
Batteries are a bit erratic in some ways. The only 1 I've had for any length of time and used semi frequently has been a "ECO WORTHY" 30 Ah one I take with me along with a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter and the charger for a very very cheap mobility scooter for times I have to rely on it and don't trust it's tiny lead acid battery pack so, I charge it whenever I stop for any period from that LiFe battery.
I've bought first one twin pack of 130 Ah ones of them, then they dropped the price drastically for a short while recently so I bought a second twin pack of 130 Ah ones so 520 Ahs in total in those. I spotted some of these " Weteek " branded ones that were only $320 AU and figured WTH at that price. They turned up today and in huge boxes (due to about 2 inch thick dense foam all around) strapped together making me really feel for the poor delivery guy once I felt the weight. I have no idea how they'll perform but, they claim "Up to 8000 Deep Cycle" but then in the description right below that "the cycle life of lifepoo4 batteries can reach more than 5000 times" soooo, no consistency, not that I'll be complaining if it even comes close to the 5,000 cycles.
I'm a little sus that they may be relabelled AGM batteries though. These things are big and they're heavy! I'll put a comparative list of THEIR data since I can't weigh them myself. Do remember at all times that the ECO WORTHY ones ARE 30 Ah more capacity too:
ECO WORTHY 130 Ah. WETEEC 100 Ah
Weight = 23 pounds Weight = 25.1 pounds (I think more)
DIMENSIONS W D H:
260 X 168 X 209 332 X 172 X 220
So, as you can see, 30 Ah less yet quite significantly bigger and stated as just over 2 pounds heavier though, they feel like more difference than that but, I haven't got the means to test that. I'm certainly not going to complain about their price, that's extremely cheap BUT, do I want to lug around that much extra bulk and weight in my car or trailer? Does ANYONE? Actually, my biggest concern is if they are like the AGM 120 Ah battery I used for 1 camping trip, never let it get even close to flat then was useless within a year and except for the labels, looks very much like these, I'm just not sure they even are Life or that I can rely on them, AT ALL!
Did you test any of the cells individually? I wonder if the BMS could be nit charging fully and shutting off early?
If there is one low capacity cell, the BMS will shut the whole pack down to prevent further damage. There is probably 75-80% good cells in there, ready for re-use. The 6P 4S pack at the end would certainly be worth disassembling further to harvest the best cells from... no point throwing them away without testing properly.
@@johncoops6897 Agreed, I used to buy old laptop batteries and build my own, but the LiFePo4 batteries are priced low enough for me to not mess with now.
Someone need to get Battery Mooch involved in this stuff for ham radio
Should have peeled off the the wrapping on the 18650, sometimes it's information in marked on the bare cell.
Have you cut open a Bioenno?
I hope you kept the BMS circuit boards to tinker with later.
By the looks of the way this guy operates, he probably doesn't even have a proper way to test the capacities. He probably just threw all the cells and BMS away, despite there probably being a fair bit of decent stuff remaining in that lot.
Some of the innards remind me of a radio I opened up in the late 60s, made in Taiwan.
Just curious if you charged these batteries to peak before you tested them. Most LiFePo4 batteries store/ship at 30-50% charge to prolong shelf life.
These are cheap and small batteries tested here, all with too low a capacity. The question is whether there has been recharging on the part of the user or just checking on the capacity?
It is common for lithium cells to be only about 50% when the end customer receives the battery.
I have larger batteries (100ah) with 32650 lithium cells in my own cabin - the batteries are constantly charged from solar cells and work without problems.
Have charged one of these at home - then I saw that the remaining capacity was just under 50%. This was due to control of bluetooth app and -function. It is installed and works without problems there too.
Gee I didn't think to charge them before testing them (that is sarcasm). Wow.
What's your testing methodology on this? I'm just curious because even cells that are a few years old should not be all the way down to half capacity unless they have many hundreds of cycles on them. The fact that all of these are testing low kind of makes me wonder if your test setup might be inaccurate.
You charge them up and run them dry with a meter in line. It's pretty simple. Then you compare your results to what is advertised. When your results are less than what is advertised, that's when you know you have a bad battery.
@@hamradiotube What are you using for a load and are you confident in the accuracy of your meter?
I doubt VERY much that this guy has the equipment to test properly. You can tell that he's just a hack by the way that he doesn't even know how to open the packs properly. I wouldn't trust what is shown in this video.
I love my 3ea 20Ah Bioenno LiFePO batteries that can run my cpap machine and my FT-991A, HOWEVER, I have only managed to get about 13Ah out of any of them. I think all batteries underperform. You just need to know that and test them to see what they really can do.
Stop worrying about the brand names. Those are disposable brand names, slapped on to satisfy the incoming orders from the resellers. If they get bad reviews, then they'll reshuffle the ASCII characters and have a new brand name the next day. Pointless !!
My 30Ahr LiFePO4 battery is UL listed, from a genuine company. It cost about +50% compared to the Random-Brands.
I had this with 18650 batteries from Alie, 30% of the advertised rating , so orderd it in the Netherlands from keep power and they are good, more expensive , but very good , never ever buy batteries from alie or amazon, did complain at Alie ant got my money back from 1 order.
"Look at the solder job on that..." That's not bad, given that a nine year old might have done it. ;-)
That's true. I didn't think about all the Chinese kids just learning how to solder. I should cut them some slack lol!
I read an article that says lithium is lithium and no matter where you get them in the world it costs pretty much the same to get lithium so any bargin is pretty much a rip. The guy I watched says he actually goes over to china and meets the seller and goes through his factory before he makes a big order.
No, any bargain is probably off-brand (generic) cells - they make up the vast majority of cells in consumer devices.
In this case, they are recycled cells... you can see where they ground off the old spot welds. Nothing wrong with (most of) them... just need some testing to weed out whichever cells are dragging the pack down.
Yup the guts are shameful. Had a few that had 3x 18650s inside with a chunk of metal and foam to bulk it up. Also lied about the capacity. Said 12AH and the cells were 2.5AH.
Have been very happy with my Weize 100 aH batteries.
And a 50ah Nermak has been solid for me. I conditioned it first.
the date isnt that big of an issue just weather or not they have been cycled or not, that being said new cells have to be cycled a few times to get the maximum capacity.
You shouldn't destroyed the cases as you could have done something with them.
But yes I have had the same problem, I had a jmt battery for my motorcycle it was good for about 4 years then one cell failed, opened it up that's how I know one cell failed.
But it does have potential to make a good battery with it.
I bought a another thinking it would be good but not a jmt and it was terrible, I opened it up and the cells were tiny just enough to run the bike, but leave the bike over night the cells dropped way too low to start the bike, ended up back with a lead acid.
It's only bad cells that self-discharge overnight. So, you just test the cells individually and eliminate any bad ones.
I always compare lithium batteries by weight. If it's too light then it's not the amp hour capacity that they claim.
tested the same batteries before all of the bms works well its just the batteries that always fails
They've been a mixed bag for me. Some produce rated capacity and some don't. I've had the best luck with those manufactured by enjoybot (chins, lifetime,redodo).
Seems the smaller batteries (
Nice teardowns.
Looking at the comments, this somehow turned into an advertisement for Bioenno batteries as if they are the only vendor that sells a "good" LiFePO battery.
I was thinking this smells of a campaign. All of these videos talk about the “quality” of bioenno batteries but other nothing concrete to justify paying two+ times the price
…and then the bioenno quality brigade begins
I was thinking those flat cells are lithium polymer cells, not lifepo4 cells; but I could be wrong.
Nope. They can come in all shapes and sizes.
Have you tried asking AMazon for your money back when batteries are not as advertised?
And you have change the alternator so the volt go down ?
Charge over 14 volt it kill is
So you have lower it .
Uhh, no. 12v LiFePO4 batteries charge to 14.6 volts. Do your homework before commenting improper information. But thanks for watching!
@@hamradiotube no do your home work .
That is not correct 14.4 is the max.
And epever and victron tell 14.2 volt max charge .
A accu like this is full with 13.6 volt.
And yes i have them beult in my boat and its my work to do so.
So i think i do know more than you.
Mike Rowe.. safety 3rd...
tear down was boss, watched it just for that. Bought 2 Miandy 7.2AH batteries this week, testing them now. Not convinced about the facts, need more info on charging. 3 batteries, 3 types of cells. Providence.
Ever take a BioEnno apart to compare ?
I haven't taken one apart, no. But I also know what goes inside of them.
Word.
I'm not so sure the non-budget variety would look that much different.
Because you should buy them for us! 😎
You mean from you? Yes.
Amazon dropped the ball on quality controll. SMH
That first battery looked like lithium ion pouches not even lithium iron phosphate. They could catch on fire.
They are all lithium ion batteries. Just different kinds. But, LiFePO4 cells, and any other chemistry for that matter, can come in different forms. Here we see both cylindrical and pouch type cells.
You get what you pay for, advertising is always bogus. Same with solar panels and wind generators, ratings tell everything. I do like the build of that last one, it could actually be a 10Ah if cells were at least rated at 1.67Ah each. No such value with lifeP04 exists. If they were good Li-ion 16650 cells with a capacity of 3000 mAh each, this would be a 16v 18Ah battery. That is probably cheaper, 3 of those in series will get you 48 volts, enough to power a motorcycle or mini-car (backup)..
hah, saved me from wasting my time with one of those. I almost bought one recently. Figured Bioenno was overpriced name-brand stuff.
When do you plan on doing another run of your battery box with the good battery in them? Davey - KU9L
Soon. I need to get my butt in gear.
@@hamradiotube No rush, we enjoy the opportunity for spontaneous improvements inspired by viewers who never actually watch the details of your videos, lol.
And that's why I stick with Bioenno.
Franks beans don’t suck lol
Can you bust open a Jackery and see if it's junk?
Look up Will Prowse. He has and they are.
I expect these are factory rejects that someone thought they could make some money.
Chinese batteries not even close to advertised ratings? I'm shocked! I am shocked anyone would even think they were legit.
You get what you pay for as they say. I will stick with my Bioenno's. Thanks for the surgical enlightenment on the "Cheapo Lifepo's" Mike. Cheers and 73 de W3LAM!!
Ok, the ultimate stupid question...can a portable car jumpstart rechargeable battery be use for a qrp rig?...flame on
That’s actually a fantastic question. One that I don’t know the answer to but I have both of those things. I should try that.
If hams want to be cheap and buy this garbage, let them waste their money. Many people tell them to buy Bioenno Power batteries, but they complain they cost too much. It costs more to keep buying garbage over and over and over again. 73.
Did you say "..safety third"? Ha ha ha.
These packs are using batteries from recycled medical devices mostly.
This just proves, you can build a Ferrari with Volkswagon parts... And its only ever going to be a Volkswagon! It looks sweet, but runs like crap!
The answer is hidden in the title.
Finally alls batery go to trash.
I have found cheap batteries don’t last. EVER! LOL
Solder them all together and make a mega crap battery.
makes since.... low price bats..... use lower quality products
What's with the demonic elevator music background? 😂
Because Amazon as a company is as bad as the products. Maybe you should stop with Amazon, both for business and private.
Chinese stuff is always bad ❤
Quit playing with garbage,and go the Bioenno Power route.Sure,you’ll save a nickel with cheaper batteries,but actually purchase a bundle of trash.
Recommend us value for money batteries pls
Junk! ill stick with bioenno
Why Are These LiFePO4 Batteries From Amazon So Bad? why cause it's amazon duh
If you test the 3.7v 18650 cells out you get even worse performance, like 30% region. The Japs came in better on those tests though. The lesson is more money buys you a battery closer to the spec. The LED light market was similar where huge wattages were claimed for cruddy LEDs. Now the lumen/watt is a better guide, but the energy rating is often wrong. If it says A+++ almost certainly wrong.