Loved this episode as always! Jess, as a ballet dancer I have to (I'm sorry I'll be nice about it), the dynamics of a dance in classical ballet is about different qualities. Height of jumps (making smaller jumps a bit lower an quicker and having higher, bigger jumps to contrast) is part of this. Dynamics in lifts/dives for partnered dances (pas de deux) also does this, so a lift over the shoulder vs a 'fish dive'/dip. Also do not underestimate the power of a plié (any ballet teacher/dancer can go on about this for hours!) both in terms of technique and in terms of aesthetic dynamics. Pliés are indeed used to increase dynamic of a dance - this is increased when a dancer is en pointe. The changing of rhythm/timing is also used (eg. having a waltz section in a big jump section). I do get what you are saying, because ballet is about very small, nuanced movements and differences, so it is difficulty to pick up unless you have been doing it a little while. I've been thinking a lot (yes, I do have ADHD) about the many ways ballet could benefit gymnastics. I think it would be highly beneficial (to turns/leaps/overall artistry and performance) to learn the power of using these small nuances.
Rebeca andrade does a plie in her fx and it looks good as it adds variety in what we always see. Also, i want to point out that a flex foot done on purpose looks can look nice and it looks very different from a dead flexed foot (a trained eye can catch it easily) i think ballet is always beneficial not only in terms of the moves but trains the ear, helping with musicality and intentionality and teaches gymnasts to (pleaseeeee) finish and extend their movements. Tall gymnast will look gorgeous and short gymnasts will look also better and with more polished movements. Robertson fot example will benefit a lot from ballet
As a visual listener, I would LOOOVE if when you talk about routines that you would show a video of it as you discuss it, or when you talk about less known gymnasts (ie. college athletes) to show at least a picture or some video so we can follow along better!
@@GymCastic Ahh fair enough! Any chance then you could include in the description a list of all the links to videos of the stuff you talk about so we can also watch along?
The 2008 Favorite narrative made sense because we had the #1 #2 gymnasts in the world, with a former world all-around champion (Chellsie), and Alicia & Sam being "solid" routines everywhere. It was going to be close but the US had a reason to think they could win gold.
Dancer here: I would much rather the gymnasts get extra execution points for connecting the movements in the choreography, for example the Wolf Turn- this seems to be getting worse overall, with so many athletes setting it up, letting us know it is the next element with a long wait and wind up of the arms, wild arms, lower body not well connected, and an overall feeling there may be a fall. Would rather give extra points to the gymnast who performs it smoothly, as a surprise in the choreography, good placement, etc. Respects to all athletes as this element is obviously highly difficult and risky. But it seems this would be more fair to the individuality of the sport, than a checklist of specifics that, as Jessica and Spencer discuss, can lead to cookie- cutter programs. How can we possibly compare the choreography of Lilia, Svetlana B., Shannon, Henrietta, Oksana O., Kim Z., Jordan, Dominique D., Dominique M., Rebeka, and Simone? It seems wrong to even try.
Fellow dancer and YES. Yes yes yes. I’m sorry but it’s HARD to make things connected and beautiful in the upper body. We HAVE GOT to give credit to it. The clunky and drawn out set ups for certain skills makes my dancer brain cringe lol
Firstly, I am a massive fan of Aly and it was amazing to see her win her all round medal is Rio. But I have always wondered why Laurie wasn’t put in the all round during qualifications instead of Aly? Laurie had a better AA score at Olympic trials and from what I know Laurie wasn’t injured in Rio and therefore stopping her from doing bars?
"Involvement of the body parts" will never not sound dystopian to me, or at least like an adjudicator who got peer pressured into a regional dance festival and is fighting a losing battle against snark: "Well, you certainly...involved ALL your body parts, didn't you."
@@PeirsolFan2 Of course! But I still think it is such a crazy stacked team. Plus all the individual medals that Alicia Sacramone had won. It was just insane!
The Chinese team was underaged. The evidence was there. And then it was erased. 2 gymnasts reporting an age at domestic competitions different than their Olympic age, with the former age not being old enough for the Olympics in 2008. Then it disappeared. That team was great, the gymnasts did a great job, and congratulations to them. However, yes, age rules were broken. I wasn't in favor of doing anything about it considering nothing was done about the Romanian gymnasts doing the same thing in the 90s and openly admitting it.
How could you not mention the US 2008 team harassing and disrespecting the Chinese team and perpetuating the misinformed narrative about the Chinese gymnasts being underaged?
Maybe because they were actually underaged? Once a cheater always a cheater…how stupid are you to not realize that China could do whatever they want Scott free. Even Chinese fans were sad that He wasn’t going to be age eligible when she first showed up. Get a CLUE!!!
@@Tiger-cm1qc it was right in front of them to mention. They mentioned the us 2008 team and then directly the Chinese 2008 team being accused of being underaged but not making the connection between the two
Talk about selective memory 😂😂 girl, more than half the top 10 gymnasts in the country were eliminated within weeks span #2-6. Suni is great but honestly was not the #2 gymnast anymore. Had everyone not been dropping in like flies, suni would have been #6 or #7. The tokyo team was called the worst ever then comes paris its the same team and suddenly they are the best in usa history smh
Suni was literally 4th at nationals with a performance worse than what she did at the olympics. And literally no one called the team the worst ever, in fact it was the opposite lol
You so stupid, in Tokyo - Simone didn’t compete obviously , plus jade wasn’t on the team, jordan was a lot less experienced at the time, and grace was , well you know. Fast forward to Paris it’s a completely different situation 🤦♂️Also suni would’ve been on the team regardless of who was and wasn’t injured, posting the highest beam score in the country all year, and second highest bar score
Shi had better results than suni and thats it. Sky was nice but had a lot to prove due to her inconsistency. But yeah i agree that except for suni tokio was not the best team
Suni should have been on the team, very likely, even with all gymnasts competing Gymnasts Suni. Overall, for the season Suni avg was 2nd to Simone for beam, this alone she should have been chosen. Additionally, she second to Shi on bars. So even if Suni was 2nd on 2 events and got 4,5, or 6 AA she should have been chosen. In a top 3, 3 up 3 count. Based on trails and previous scoring through season the team should have been Simone, Suni, Shi, Skye, Jade. Honestly last spot was between Jade, Jordan and Kayla, but with Jade Vault and Floor it would make the most sense for the team.
Loved this episode as always! Jess, as a ballet dancer I have to (I'm sorry I'll be nice about it), the dynamics of a dance in classical ballet is about different qualities. Height of jumps (making smaller jumps a bit lower an quicker and having higher, bigger jumps to contrast) is part of this. Dynamics in lifts/dives for partnered dances (pas de deux) also does this, so a lift over the shoulder vs a 'fish dive'/dip. Also do not underestimate the power of a plié (any ballet teacher/dancer can go on about this for hours!) both in terms of technique and in terms of aesthetic dynamics. Pliés are indeed used to increase dynamic of a dance - this is increased when a dancer is en pointe. The changing of rhythm/timing is also used (eg. having a waltz section in a big jump section).
I do get what you are saying, because ballet is about very small, nuanced movements and differences, so it is difficulty to pick up unless you have been doing it a little while. I've been thinking a lot (yes, I do have ADHD) about the many ways ballet could benefit gymnastics. I think it would be highly beneficial (to turns/leaps/overall artistry and performance) to learn the power of using these small nuances.
Rebeca andrade does a plie in her fx and it looks good as it adds variety in what we always see. Also, i want to point out that a flex foot done on purpose looks can look nice and it looks very different from a dead flexed foot (a trained eye can catch it easily) i think ballet is always beneficial not only in terms of the moves but trains the ear, helping with musicality and intentionality and teaches gymnasts to (pleaseeeee) finish and extend their movements. Tall gymnast will look gorgeous and short gymnasts will look also better and with more polished movements. Robertson fot example will benefit a lot from ballet
As a visual listener, I would LOOOVE if when you talk about routines that you would show a video of it as you discuss it, or when you talk about less known gymnasts (ie. college athletes) to show at least a picture or some video so we can follow along better!
So would we! Copyright issues.
@@GymCastic Ahh fair enough! Any chance then you could include in the description a list of all the links to videos of the stuff you talk about so we can also watch along?
Thank you so much for satisfying my curiosity on 2008 team finals! That was exactly what I wanted! You are awesome!
The 2008 Favorite narrative made sense because we had the #1 #2 gymnasts in the world, with a former world all-around champion (Chellsie), and Alicia & Sam being "solid" routines everywhere. It was going to be close but the US had a reason to think they could win gold.
Thanks for this episode guys. Hope you're doing well Spencer.
Shout out to Spencer for having the most correct pronunciation of the Chinese names. I want to make sure his effort is noticed and appreciated 👏 💐
Dancer here: I would much rather the gymnasts get extra execution points for connecting the movements in the choreography, for example the Wolf Turn- this seems to be getting worse overall, with so many athletes setting it up, letting us know it is the next element with a long wait and wind up of the arms, wild arms, lower body not well connected, and an overall feeling there may be a fall. Would rather give extra points to the gymnast who performs it smoothly, as a surprise in the choreography, good placement, etc. Respects to all athletes as this element is obviously highly difficult and risky. But it seems this would be more fair to the individuality of the sport, than a checklist of specifics that, as Jessica and Spencer discuss, can lead to cookie- cutter programs. How can we possibly compare the choreography of Lilia, Svetlana B., Shannon, Henrietta, Oksana O., Kim Z., Jordan, Dominique D., Dominique M., Rebeka, and Simone? It seems wrong to even try.
Yes give extra points to Josc Roberson’s wolf turn set up!!!
Fellow dancer and YES. Yes yes yes. I’m sorry but it’s HARD to make things connected and beautiful in the upper body. We HAVE GOT to give credit to it. The clunky and drawn out set ups for certain skills makes my dancer brain cringe lol
Yay! Another GymCastic episode! ❤️
This is the type of gymcastic i signed up for!! 🥳
As a Swede I am so happy Tonya is going to Cal. So hope they finally get their natty with her on the team. Go bears!🐻
Firstly, I am a massive fan of Aly and it was amazing to see her win her all round medal is Rio. But I have always wondered why Laurie wasn’t put in the all round during qualifications instead of Aly? Laurie had a better AA score at Olympic trials and from what I know Laurie wasn’t injured in Rio and therefore stopping her from doing bars?
Because Aly was Marta's favorite
Laurie was injured, she made it back just in time to make the routines she did complete.
@@GymCastic thank you!
Has there ever been a Dominique Moceanu deep dive? That could be a full sized commission fo sho!
So agree with you about Maggie!
"Involvement of the body parts" will never not sound dystopian to me, or at least like an adjudicator who got peer pressured into a regional dance festival and is fighting a losing battle against snark: "Well, you certainly...involved ALL your body parts, didn't you."
It's crazy though that the US team in 2008 had 4 world/olympic all-around GOLD medalists on it. That is INSANE!
Not at the time the competition happened there wasn’t.
@@PeirsolFan2 Of course! But I still think it is such a crazy stacked team. Plus all the individual medals that Alicia Sacramone had won. It was just insane!
Can y’all please put the links to the routines you mention in the description? 🙏
Nadia Comăneci 1976 ua-cam.com/video/y87BO6tnB08/v-deo.htmlsi=2k6sBFTzuDjZla7b
Svetlana Boginskaya 1989 ua-cam.com/video/tFAocozh4JE/v-deo.htmlsi=WQRvcWNa1zIU_BgC
Lilia Podkopayeva 1996
ua-cam.com/video/DEPGm4Hgb7w/v-deo.htmlsi=U6ldFKS-tnJohca-
Carly Patterson 2004
ua-cam.com/video/H8bBKsdOKkw/v-deo.htmlsi=SaxaMifi7GyDMdS_
Simone Biles 2016 ua-cam.com/video/-mDWF8Zl7FI/v-deo.htmlsi=3srWA09kyYhOdf_B
Aly Raisman 2012 ua-cam.com/video/HoQVii31BSY/v-deo.htmlsi=ZGRQ0n-9PwA0WFIM
So agree with you about Maggie!
But what if the US put Bridget Sloan on bars instead of Shawn?
The Chinese team was underaged. The evidence was there. And then it was erased. 2 gymnasts reporting an age at domestic competitions different than their Olympic age, with the former age not being old enough for the Olympics in 2008. Then it disappeared. That team was great, the gymnasts did a great job, and congratulations to them. However, yes, age rules were broken. I wasn't in favor of doing anything about it considering nothing was done about the Romanian gymnasts doing the same thing in the 90s and openly admitting it.
Thank you, Washington Post for reopening that story
How could you not mention the US 2008 team harassing and disrespecting the Chinese team and perpetuating the misinformed narrative about the Chinese gymnasts being underaged?
Maybe because they were actually underaged? Once a cheater always a cheater…how stupid are you to not realize that China could do whatever they want Scott free. Even Chinese fans were sad that He wasn’t going to be age eligible when she first showed up. Get a CLUE!!!
??
@@Tiger-cm1qc it was right in front of them to mention. They mentioned the us 2008 team and then directly the Chinese 2008 team being accused of being underaged but not making the connection between the two
Talk about selective memory 😂😂 girl, more than half the top 10 gymnasts in the country were eliminated within weeks span #2-6. Suni is great but honestly was not the #2 gymnast anymore. Had everyone not been dropping in like flies, suni would have been #6 or #7. The tokyo team was called the worst ever then comes paris its the same team and suddenly they are the best in usa history smh
Suni was literally 4th at nationals with a performance worse than what she did at the olympics. And literally no one called the team the worst ever, in fact it was the opposite lol
You make absolutely zero sense 😂😂
You so stupid, in Tokyo - Simone didn’t compete obviously , plus jade wasn’t on the team, jordan was a lot less experienced at the time, and grace was , well you know. Fast forward to Paris it’s a completely different situation 🤦♂️Also suni would’ve been on the team regardless of who was and wasn’t injured, posting the highest beam score in the country all year, and second highest bar score
Shi had better results than suni and thats it. Sky was nice but had a lot to prove due to her inconsistency. But yeah i agree that except for suni tokio was not the best team
Suni should have been on the team, very likely, even with all gymnasts competing Gymnasts Suni. Overall, for the season Suni avg was 2nd to Simone for beam, this alone she should have been chosen. Additionally, she second to Shi on bars. So even if Suni was 2nd on 2 events and got 4,5, or 6 AA she should have been chosen. In a top 3, 3 up 3 count. Based on trails and previous scoring through season the team should have been Simone, Suni, Shi, Skye, Jade. Honestly last spot was between Jade, Jordan and Kayla, but with Jade Vault and Floor it would make the most sense for the team.