@@sfwordsofwonder Never heard of Gallun before starting to collect The Ballantine Classic Library of Science Fiction. Always fun to read a new author and visit with you and Matt!
Fantastic talk! 👏 I don’t own the Ballantine “best of” but I checked my DAW “Book of Fritz Leiber” and it has completely different contents. Glad I won’t double dip if I find it in the wild.
Really enjoying the conversation. Leiber’ S&S novels are very good but it took a couple books to shift me from like to love. Simak’s “City” was fantastic btw.
Great video! I enjoyed hearing you guys present and at times try to suss out these very interesting sounding stories! I'll be doing my first Leiber on the channel sometime near the end of September, so this has got me excited to jump into it!
And talking about respect Harlan Ellison went to bat for Leiber too at a con once, recounted by someone I’m forgetting the name of right now and am not with my books: “I'll never forget the day Harlan Ellison stood on the stage in front of three thousand screaming Star Trek fans at a Star Trek convention in San Francisco a few years ago; he lacerated them with scorn and contempt for their mindless, slavering adulation of actors who merely mouth the words of writers, when the greatest living author of science fiction and fantasy, Fritz Leiber, if not the greatest living author, period, lived but a few short blocks from the con site, ignored and unhonored by those attending the convention.”
Those of us who come to SF through media, myself included, certainly idolized actors over those who put the words in their mouths, the action in their plots and the emotions in their relationships. Show runners are sometimes writers but more and more I watch for the writers credit or the based on credit. 95% of the time the source material is superior.
Really love Leiber's work. Very interesting hearing this and in general discussing things like short story collections -- my favourites are often not the favourites of others and vice versa. Not just in short form though in this case. never heard anyone say before that they preferred You're All Alone to the Big Time, but hey, i can dig it. I do think that, to paraphrase Roger Zelazny, the best writers don't write the kind of books you can have a "one-night stand" with, and, indeed, they "want" to be re-read. leiber's stuff does benefit from being returned to. Most often I've come back to the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser stories, because they're just so much damn fun, but I've also revisited many of the shorts in this collection, and the book Conjure Wife, which despite a premise that is hard to explain to anyone without making it come across as very sexist, is a really excellent book that is basically kept alive by the believability of the protagonist couple. Leiber talked and lived a lot like he wrote, and according to people like Judith merril, when you read his work it's his real voice you are hearing (there are some interviews you can listen to on youtube from the 70s, where you can actually hear him, too)...a lot of the stuff he wrote, even though it may contain supernatural or science fiction stuff, contains a lot of his real life experience, including the acting and theatre stuff of course, which he was totally immersed in for most of his youth, but also his bouts with severe alcoholism, romantic challenges and so on. Its' not often that you see a writer in these genres who seems so willing to put himself out there and, i guess, be ki9nd of vulnerable through his characters, and also writes so damn well.
@@DamnableReverend Excellent comment. I may have to go and look up that Zelazny quote. I think I mentioned that I do want to do a second reading of The Big Time. I really enjoyed the short story in this collection about snakes and spiders.
Yes! 'A Pail Of Air'. It is a criminally overlooked story. I'm glad it impressed all three of you. Interesting comparison to 'The Martian', Matt. I hadn't noticed that but you are right. The story is now in the public domain and is available on Project Gutenberg. 'Coming Attraction' is very, VERY, much a piece of its time. Keep in mind that this was written during the hight of McCarthyism. Imagine what that was like for left-leaning pacifist. Leiber's outrage drips from every word. That is why the story is so highly thought of. My wife and I read 'Spacetime For Springers' while a young cat was growing into adulthood so it doubly impressed us. We still make comments about it. You spoke of the gleeful intelligence in cat's eyes, and it is true. I have, lately, come to the conclusion that cats basically Republicans. They can be helpful (when it suits them), kind, even loving but they are, at core, totally and utterly self-centered. In general, I think Fritz Leiber, like R.A. Lafferty, is a better writer of short stories than novels. He is a master of packing everything into a short piece and knocking your socks off, but he can't really sustain it when he has to fill a novel. His short stories, though are very much worth reading.
That makes sense for Coming Attraction, great info. Funny, after telling my wife about Spacetime for Springers we talked about reading it out loud to try and figure it out. We've read a bunch of short stories to each other and it's a lot of fun. I will look for more Leiber short stories, thanks.
I know you guys are focused on SF but Fafrd & Grey Mouser are SO good and SO current feeling, cinematic dialog (in a good way) and humor that is situational and subtle (well, I can't vouch for the comeback F&GM - but "Ill Met in Lahnkmar" . . . ) So satisfying.
Oh, I remember 'Ill Met in Lahnkmar'. There was a charade at an SF convention and the two teams were tied. I got up and drew 'Ill Met in Lahnkmar'. It was ... difficult. I got them all the way to 'Ill Met in Blankmar' and was struggling to get them to drop the 'B' when time ran out. Willie Siros, on the other team had submitted that one. Another person on his team had been acting out my submission; she got to 'Weird' and 'Stone' when Willie jumped up and shouted 'Weirdstone of Bisngamen'! Our side lost by one point. 😪
one of my fav fritz leiber shorts is naturally about my hometown city ‘the creature from the cleveland depths’ from dec 1962 galaxy (very cool hard scifi 60s cover) - its about a practial device called a tickler that foretells smart phones and A.I.. 🎉
I've read that story! It was in the book I held up titled 'You're All Alone'. You are absolutely right. It is so prescient in talking about the tickler device. Think haptic instead of tickler. It was also an atmospheric story of a post apocalyptic future.
I really liked hearing you all enjoy stories I also have and also to hear you talk about those I haven’t. Leiber is one of my favorites because he does horror, sci-fi, and fantasy so well. The range, the humor, cats, verve,the stuff you can see in so much later stuff is astounding to me. When you mention the play, The Big Time is an example of a play all in one room, on a stage of sorts. I think Anderson mentions this in the foreword. Anyway, nice discussion, I love Leiber. I mean I named my son Fritz. “Coming Attraction” is probably my favorite of the batch. I’ve read it several times. It’s actually the oldest story included in last years The Big Book of Cyberpunk. I don’t know if you read much of that genre but this story has a proto-Molly Millions, not that surprising since Gibson has referenced being a big fan of Leiber.
During Covid I was listening to a lot of audiobooks and going for long walks. "Coming Attractions" (other than the rather dated ending) was an amazing eye-opener; while walking through the streets of an empty San Francisco and listening to a story about everyone wearing masks, and status reflected in the type of mask, and different layers of meaning about masks. . . It felt like an impossibly prescient commentary. It was a very bizarre experience.
Been a long time since I read any Leiber. I always found that the concepts were great and I always really enjoyed discussing the narrative after I finished it (like you guys have), but that the actual reading experience was not always that enjoyable (Much like you say, Ira). Even the Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser books, which I did like could be a bit of a pain to read, while you were actually reading them. Matt, good luck with your sleep study results. Been there, done that and I hope it proves helpful to you.
To follow up on the idea that Leiber seems better in retrospect than while reading him, I find that especially true of his horror stories. To me, the big three of horror are Robert Bloch, Richard Matheson, and Fritz Leiber. Bloch has the best characters. Matheson puts you through the wringer while you read one of his stories. Is there a gremlin on the wing of that airplane or not? I find myself tearing through a Matheson story to get to the ending. Leiber, by contrast, has the most haunting concepts. I read a Leiber horror story and while the plot and characters are okay, they don't wow me the way they would in a Bloch or Matheson story. But Leiber's best horror stories contain ideas that stick with you after the story is over. Is oil an entity that has enslaved mankind and is luring it to ultimate destruction? Are witches simply very charismatic people who get other people to do things for them? A Leiber story will come back to you when you read a newspaper article years after you read the Leiber story.
Haven't read Bloch, yet, but completely agree with your assessment of Matheson and Leiber. I prefer their stories that either lean toward or fully embrace horror. I think they are better than their firmly SF stories.
I think "The Man Who Made Friends with Electricity" was meant as a parody of the "John Birch Society" brand of American political paranoia. ("The Black Gondolier" is akin to it, being about oil as an entity instead of electricity, but that is more of a straight horror story.)
Thank you for the feedback. I just need a bit more clarity in what you are asking. Here is the title: "Stories to keep you awake or put you to sleep? 'The Best of Fritz Leiber' with Ira and Matt."
One of my favorite short stories. A Pail of Air
That was my overall favorite in this collection.
gotta be the best irl scifi thumbnail 😂🎉
Matt was a good sport when I suggested using it in the thumbnail.
Great podcast! I so enjoy seeing all three of you discussing these collections.
This was fun Richard and Matt. Now I'm really looking forward to checking out Raymond Z. Gallun.
@@sfwordsofwonder Never heard of Gallun before starting to collect The Ballantine Classic Library of Science Fiction. Always fun to read a new author and visit with you and Matt!
Fantastic talk! 👏 I don’t own the Ballantine “best of” but I checked my DAW “Book of Fritz Leiber” and it has completely different contents. Glad I won’t double dip if I find it in the wild.
I do wonder about the label "Best of". It is very subjective and also relies on purchase of story rights.
what a nice treat. More please.
@@axelplate9080 We plan to read another “Best of …” every month to 6 weeks. More to come!
Really enjoying the conversation. Leiber’ S&S novels are very good but it took a couple books to shift me from like to love. Simak’s “City” was fantastic btw.
@@literallybooks Thank you Virgil.
Great video! I enjoyed hearing you guys present and at times try to suss out these very interesting sounding stories! I'll be doing my first Leiber on the channel sometime near the end of September, so this has got me excited to jump into it!
@@LiminalSpaces03 Thanks Chris. Looking forward to hearing your analysis on a Leiber story.
Thanks for sharing! This was a really interesting chat
@@bookspin Thanks Robin! Looking forward to your Short Story September!
The SF BookTube Justice League! Yay!
@@Atop77 I guess I need a hero’s name. Richard of the North. Old Richard. Or just Vintage SF. VSF for short.
I'll be Montana Man, but I'll need to grow a mullet and get a cowboy hat though🤠
@@sfwordsofwonder Don't forget the Canadian tuxedo with chaps of course.
@@vintagesf
Richard = Vision
Ira = Wolverine
Matt = Professor X
@@Atop77 The SF-Men!
And talking about respect Harlan Ellison went to bat for Leiber too at a con once, recounted by someone I’m forgetting the name of right now and am not with my books: “I'll never forget the day Harlan Ellison stood on the stage in front of three thousand screaming Star Trek fans at a Star Trek convention in San Francisco a few years ago; he lacerated them
with scorn and contempt for their mindless, slavering adulation of
actors who merely mouth the words of writers, when the greatest
living author of science fiction and fantasy, Fritz Leiber, if not the
greatest living author, period, lived but a few short blocks from
the con site, ignored and unhonored by those attending the
convention.”
Those of us who come to SF through media, myself included, certainly idolized actors over those who put the words in their mouths, the action in their plots and the emotions in their relationships. Show runners are sometimes writers but more and more I watch for the writers credit or the based on credit. 95% of the time the source material is superior.
Really love Leiber's work. Very interesting hearing this and in general discussing things like short story collections -- my favourites are often not the favourites of others and vice versa. Not just in short form though in this case. never heard anyone say before that they preferred You're All Alone to the Big Time, but hey, i can dig it. I do think that, to paraphrase Roger Zelazny, the best writers don't write the kind of books you can have a "one-night stand" with, and, indeed, they "want" to be re-read. leiber's stuff does benefit from being returned to. Most often I've come back to the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser stories, because they're just so much damn fun, but I've also revisited many of the shorts in this collection, and the book Conjure Wife, which despite a premise that is hard to explain to anyone without making it come across as very sexist, is a really excellent book that is basically kept alive by the believability of the protagonist couple. Leiber talked and lived a lot like he wrote, and according to people like Judith merril, when you read his work it's his real voice you are hearing (there are some interviews you can listen to on youtube from the 70s, where you can actually hear him, too)...a lot of the stuff he wrote, even though it may contain supernatural or science fiction stuff, contains a lot of his real life experience, including the acting and theatre stuff of course, which he was totally immersed in for most of his youth, but also his bouts with severe alcoholism, romantic challenges and so on. Its' not often that you see a writer in these genres who seems so willing to put himself out there and, i guess, be ki9nd of vulnerable through his characters, and also writes so damn well.
@@DamnableReverend Excellent comment. I may have to go and look up that Zelazny quote. I think I mentioned that I do want to do a second reading of The Big Time. I really enjoyed the short story in this collection about snakes and spiders.
Yes! 'A Pail Of Air'. It is a criminally overlooked story. I'm glad it impressed all three of you.
Interesting comparison to 'The Martian', Matt. I hadn't noticed that but you are right. The story is now in the public domain and is available on Project Gutenberg.
'Coming Attraction' is very, VERY, much a piece of its time. Keep in mind that this was written during the hight of McCarthyism. Imagine what that was like for left-leaning pacifist. Leiber's outrage drips from every word. That is why the story is so highly thought of.
My wife and I read 'Spacetime For Springers' while a young cat was growing into adulthood so it doubly impressed us. We still make comments about it. You spoke of the gleeful intelligence in cat's eyes, and it is true. I have, lately, come to the conclusion that cats basically Republicans. They can be helpful (when it suits them), kind, even loving but they are, at core, totally and utterly self-centered.
In general, I think Fritz Leiber, like R.A. Lafferty, is a better writer of short stories than novels. He is a master of packing everything into a short piece and knocking your socks off, but he can't really sustain it when he has to fill a novel. His short stories, though are very much worth reading.
That makes sense for Coming Attraction, great info.
Funny, after telling my wife about Spacetime for Springers we talked about reading it out loud to try and figure it out. We've read a bunch of short stories to each other and it's a lot of fun.
I will look for more Leiber short stories, thanks.
I know you guys are focused on SF but Fafrd & Grey Mouser are SO good and SO current feeling, cinematic dialog (in a good way) and humor that is situational and subtle (well, I can't vouch for the comeback F&GM - but "Ill Met in Lahnkmar" . . . )
So satisfying.
Our series on Ballantine's "The Best of ..." doesn't mean we can't tackle other books. You might see some other collaborations.
Oh, I remember 'Ill Met in Lahnkmar'. There was a charade at an SF convention and the two teams were tied. I got up and drew 'Ill Met in Lahnkmar'. It was ... difficult. I got them all the way to 'Ill Met in Blankmar' and was struggling to get them to drop the 'B' when time ran out. Willie Siros, on the other team had submitted that one. Another person on his team had been acting out my submission; she got to 'Weird' and 'Stone' when Willie jumped up and shouted 'Weirdstone of Bisngamen'! Our side lost by one point. 😪
@@paulcooper3611Agony of defeat.
one of my fav fritz leiber shorts is naturally about my hometown city ‘the creature from the cleveland depths’ from dec 1962 galaxy (very cool hard scifi 60s cover) - its about a practial device called a tickler that foretells smart phones and A.I.. 🎉
I've read that story! It was in the book I held up titled 'You're All Alone'. You are absolutely right. It is so prescient in talking about the tickler device. Think haptic instead of tickler. It was also an atmospheric story of a post apocalyptic future.
Great stuff guys and amazing thumbnail 😁
@@SciFiFinds Thanks Jack.
AWESOME thumbnail!
I love it too, glad Matt got that pic.
I really liked hearing you all enjoy stories I also have and also to hear you talk about those I haven’t. Leiber is one of my favorites because he does horror, sci-fi, and fantasy so well. The range, the humor, cats, verve,the stuff you can see in so much later stuff is astounding to me. When you mention the play, The Big Time is an example of a play all in one room, on a stage of sorts. I think Anderson mentions this in the foreword. Anyway, nice discussion, I love Leiber. I mean I named my son Fritz.
“Coming Attraction” is probably my favorite of the batch. I’ve read it several times. It’s actually the oldest story included in last years The Big Book of Cyberpunk. I don’t know if you read much of that genre but this story has a proto-Molly Millions, not that surprising since Gibson has referenced being a big fan of Leiber.
I'll keep that in mind when I read Gibson this fall! Love that you named your son Fritz!!
Yeah, he seems to be a master at blending genres and has an amazing range. I will be reading more from Leiber in the future.
During Covid I was listening to a lot of audiobooks and going for long walks.
"Coming Attractions" (other than the rather dated ending) was an amazing eye-opener; while walking through the streets of an empty San Francisco and listening to a story about everyone wearing masks, and status reflected in the type of mask, and different layers of meaning about masks. . . It felt like an impossibly prescient commentary.
It was a very bizarre experience.
In 2019 it would have been difficult to imagine that visually and on some psychological level "Coming Attraction" would match 2020.
Been a long time since I read any Leiber. I always found that the concepts were great and I always really enjoyed discussing the narrative after I finished it (like you guys have), but that the actual reading experience was not always that enjoyable (Much like you say, Ira). Even the Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser books, which I did like could be a bit of a pain to read, while you were actually reading them.
Matt, good luck with your sleep study results. Been there, done that and I hope it proves helpful to you.
To follow up on the idea that Leiber seems better in retrospect than while reading him, I find that especially true of his horror stories.
To me, the big three of horror are Robert Bloch, Richard Matheson, and Fritz Leiber. Bloch has the best characters. Matheson puts you through the wringer while you read one of his stories. Is there a gremlin on the wing of that airplane or not? I find myself tearing through a Matheson story to get to the ending.
Leiber, by contrast, has the most haunting concepts. I read a Leiber horror story and while the plot and characters are okay, they don't wow me the way they would in a Bloch or Matheson story. But Leiber's best horror stories contain ideas that stick with you after the story is over. Is oil an entity that has enslaved mankind and is luring it to ultimate destruction? Are witches simply very charismatic people who get other people to do things for them? A Leiber story will come back to you when you read a newspaper article years after you read the Leiber story.
Haven't read Bloch, yet, but completely agree with your assessment of Matheson and Leiber. I prefer their stories that either lean toward or fully embrace horror. I think they are better than their firmly SF stories.
I think "The Man Who Made Friends with Electricity" was meant as a parody of the "John Birch Society" brand of American political paranoia. ("The Black Gondolier" is akin to it, being about oil as an entity instead of electricity, but that is more of a straight horror story.)
I’d like you to make it more clear that it’s the podcast of the three of you in the title, please.
Thank you for the feedback. I just need a bit more clarity in what you are asking. Here is the title: "Stories to keep you awake or put you to sleep? 'The Best of Fritz Leiber' with Ira and Matt."
I didn't know I'm a podcaster now, I'll put it on my resume 😊
@@vintagesf The podcast needs a title. When you put ‘with Ira and Matt’ at the end of the sentence the full UA-cam title doesn’t always show.
@@Yellowblam Would something like “The SF Guys” on the thumbnail work?
@@vintagesf That’s fantastic.