@@billyelliot4141 to litle controllability for normal sattelites (witch also majorily break up before). So you need a reentry vehicle. And then you are into ICBM's
I'm not sure how subs are modelled in DCS but anyone who's played Cold Waters will tell you that you're lucky you weren't instantly sunk in those Chinese subs. Starting stationary on the surface within visual range of a carrier group and then dropping only to periscope depth is not the stealthiest tactic 😅
Precisely. I mean, even if they missed the surfaced submarines, there is no way an entire fleet would miss the amount of wake he was kicking up. Hell, that submarine looked like it was producing more than even a carrier.
The Torps are supposed to snake, the issue is that fact that IRL in this snaking mode the torp turns on its active sonar and homes in on the first target it sees, the snaking is to help it get a wider FOV. They seemed to have modeled the snaking but not modeled the homing.
One thing you forgot about Helicopters and Pulse Doppler Radars is that the rotor blades SHOULD light up like a Christmas tree, even if you were simply hovering stationary.
Cap no submarine commander would ever approach a sub at 30knts, they would either lie in wait in front of the carriers path or sneak in at a slow speed (prob around 5knts) as to limit noise and cavitation.
@@grimreapers Here is a "real life (wargame)" account of a Swedish Submarine against a US Carrier Group nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216
Yeah a Modernized aircraft with similar capabilities would be known as the Tu22m3... but a ground effect missile carrier with VLS would be Amazing. The TU22M3s can and likely would kill a carrier, just a matter of saturation and land bases having more ammunition, eventually the carrier escorts run out of missiles.
Hah!!! That was my boat you showed in the hurricane, the USS Kitty Hawk! I was on it 1984-1988, we went through a storm like that too off Sri Lanka, it was really not that big of deal, not terribly uncomfortable or anything. They had us prepare in advance by lashing down anything that could possibly fall over or roll away, closing major hatches and almost all watertight doors. The carrier is long enough that it rides up on a wave, comes level across the next one, and noses down after the following one causing the whole ship to give a little shiver as the bow slams into the water. To most of us, it was actually fun. They can't fit all the aircraft in the hangar, so aircraft on the flight deck are double and triple-chained, they aren't going anywhere.
As a former US Navy sub nuclear sailor I can tell you that subs go deep under a hurricane. My first boat went under one back in ‘99 and we were still rocking and moving in a figure 8 pattern at 400ft depth. We had to move below 600ft depth for things to really smooth out. It is scary how much energy a hurricane puts into the ocean.
Very cool video. In real life, radar fails to obtain usable returns from very low-level objects over the sea, and I think you'll love the reason why. Have you ever got down low and looked over a flat surface (tarmac, desert) on a really hot, sunny day? You see a weird mirage effect. This is because there is a layer of hot air causing the light to bend. Well, just over the surface of the sea there is a similar layer (except it is cooler rather than hotter) which has the same kind of effect on radar (approx wavelength 2cm, 14GHz). Sometimes this effect can be used to extend a radar's range over the horizon, but it doesn't work for small objects very low over the surface.
I would dispute the weather survival of modern battleships, because of watertight doors, compartments ect they can and do cope with this weather, this was one forgotten factor about the Falklands, most of the harrier losses were due to crashes on take off in abysmal weather
I loved that you were running at periscope depth with your periscope UP and wondered how the ships could shoot at you. 1. Fast subs with periscope up leave rooster tails. 2. Periscopes can be spotted on radar. 3. Chinese submarines are horribly noisy.
So the torpedoes normally trail wires (or fibreoptic cable) behind them which would enable you steer them onto the target. If you cut the wires (or they break) the torpedo then does its own guidance and will swing left and right looking for a target, (although actually you can program different modes) if they find a target they will then lock onto that noise and home in. It looks like they just haven't modelled it very well/at all in DCS.
We went through two hurricanes while I was on the IKE. Our escort ships went around the best they could we did not go straight through just on the edge, no waves came over the deck. But the wall of water thrown up in front of the bow we would sail through it. The CO came on the 1MC and said anyone who goes on deck or on any weather deck and gets washed overboard he would not try and rescue you. Basically saying if you are dumb enough to go on deck, you are not with risking the lives of the helicopter and motor whale boat crews.
Yes, ASW is slow. We called it Awfully Slow Warfare. The whole ASW mode seems buggy. The battle group would have helos dropping torps on you, and the ships would be firing ASROCs. Plus the other warships would be positioning for and over the side torpedo shot. In the rough weather, money is on the DDGs. The CGs are top heavy and ride like shit on even moderately severe weather.
A ww2 destroyer was a about 2500 tons loaded...a modern destroyer is 8300 tons loaded and over 100 ft longer. A huge difference when it comes to storms sinking them.
I was on the USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 during Vietnam. We were in 3 major typhoons in 2 years. Luckily, we never lost any ships or aircraft during our extended West Pacific cruise. Looking at your video of ships in storms sent my mind back to those amazing days serving in the US Navy. Aircraft on the flight and hanger decks are tied down with heavy chains and wheel chocks, so they aren't going anywhere. Sailors on watches outside on observation decks are attached to the ship with rope. They become soaked with seawater, of course, but few sailors become lost at sea, which is a reassuring thought. Flight operations in storms are impossible, for the fleet and the enemy. It is 110 feet (ca. 34 meters) from the flight deck of the Kitty Hawk to the waterline. I personally have seen waves break over the bow of the Hawk, so the films you showed are very realistic and common.
My dad was in the North Atlantic (USS San Diego, AFS-6) during roughly the same period. By what he used to tell: Much the same, but add "testicles in your ribcage" cold. They once lost a Sea Knight over the side.
HMCS Athabaskan was in Sea State 9, with winds at 65 knots or 120 km/hr., the Royal Canadian Navy noted. Sea State 9 is defined as having waves higher than 14 metres.
Hey Cap, since you did a Star Destroyer from StarWars how about 'either' the USS Enterprise D (Galaxy Class from Star Trek) OR the ENTIRE US Navy fleet with the first carrier called Enterprise, but then use all the ships the US had available during that time.
The modeled storm was worse than that shown in the video of the carrier. The difference was that in the video, it was white water on deck - ie, mostly spray and foam. As modeled, it was definitely showing green water on deck - ie, unbroken water - which translates out to tons of water on deck. Odds on, that would cause the carrier to ship so much water it would sink, even if the back was not broken. Of course, as modeled the ships were pitching far more than would be expected given the wave length shown; so I would draw no conclusions about the ability of a 90 knot wind to sink a carrier.
Basic Carrier Group attack is as follows. Dive early go slow separate yourselves. Do not put your Periscope up it can be seen on radar. Use passive sonar just absorb their sound and follow it till your close. On a predetermined one pulse signal. Go to Periscope depth and immediately deploy all weapons. Crash dice and pray because those submarines have all launched on you and your dead. At the speed and depth you were traveling they would have heard you 500 miles away. You must use thermoclines in the water, different temperatures cause sonar and radar reflection. To hide, run silent run deep.
the destroyers lost during typhoon cobra were fletchers modern arleigh burks are close to the size of a Atlanta class cruiser which historically braved typhoon cobra without major damage or loss of life.
Great video!! Would be awesome to do a complete helicopter fleet swarm.... a Hind Zerg Rush (50+) vs fleet in a snow storm! As snow doesn't reflect radar as well as rain, adding to targeting issues, visibility and maybe get that "you sunk my -battle- Carrier" win we're all rooting for! This was really enjoyable, thanks guys!!
modern, sonar guided torpedoes generally do a snake pattern to search for targets after reaching a certain distance while air dropped and rocket launched torpedoes usually do circle patterns. Although they might be programmable to do either or something entirely different.
Information is not easy to come by for torpedoes, but modern ones (according to sonar operators) are silent until they go active in their final approach, and by then it's too late. They will also hang out/seek in a defined area (box) autonomously waiting on a target. During practice there have been subs "sank" by their own torpedoes when they ended up in the box area doing evasive maneuvers. Modern torpedoes don't run at the surface.
Subs can actually easily defeat a US Carrier group. its been proven time and time again in military ex's. Especially non nuclear subs. Non nuclear subs, with no systems running are holes in the water, they simply don't make noise. next in an area like the Persian gulf, there are TONS of ship wrecks, sunken oil rigs, and other "clutter". A sub captain can very easily Find one of these clutter points on the map, and set his sub on the bottom, right next to it. So now you have a silent sub, sitting next to a large metallic structure that will mess up MAD Detection's AND mess up active sonar detection. the sub then just waits for the carrier group to travel over its position. Since there are very limited shipping channels... a captain can likely ensure the carrier will pass within between 0 and 10 nautical miles of their sub. From there, they can fire torps at almost point blank range. this could be anywhere from 4 to 8 torpedoes...
Helicopters produce such a strong doppler pulse with their advancing and receding rotors. Helicopters are doppler noisy, no stealth there. I tracked many helicopters that were flying parallel to us and at the same speed with our targeting radar when I was in the Navy. The radar locks onto the spinning rotors, ours had a sound feedback system, and I could always tell when I locked onto a helicopter, the sound in the headphones was 'swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss'. I operated and maintained those Seasparrow launchers/radars that you see on the side of the carrier.
Can’t see this working as anti missile defence systems like sea wolf, Cwizz ect are designed to take out things like Exocet which are sea skimming missiles
No chance of flying Airwolf against them? 9I’m aware that this doesn’t actually exist - but if I remember correctly it was supposed to be a mach2 capable stealth helicopter - I think, lol). You just Stringfellow Hawk to pilot it….. memories, memories 😔😔😪
My father served in the United States Navy from Korea through the Vietnam War. Destroyers have to put to Sea and evade or ride out hurricanes and or force 10 gales. I have photographs of these ships returning to Harbor with three feet of solid ice on their upper works
The old diesel Canadian submarines would sink American aircraft carriers in war games. At first the Americans said that was impossible, so they put a spotter on a Canadian submarine and the spotter verified a carrier getting sunk again while he was on board.
They say the carrier top speed is actually classified due to they don’t want enemy’s to know how fast they can really go, in case of subs or other things firing at them. So they probably go faster then 60 knots, sounds crazy but I believe it.
I don't know if this will make it onto the list but here's a try...Combo attack! Attempt to use combinations of previous attacks but with smaller numbers for each attacking type (that is controlled by AI). Example instead of 100 Fast Attack Boats try 25 FAB, 4 Kamikaze aircraft and some land based Anti-Ship missiles or two Chinese Destroyers.
If a you did a sub attack like that in real life running on parascope you would have so many anti sub helos on you and droping topedos. they would do that even if you were submeged
There would be no flight ops going on in winds and seas that strong. Everything would not only be chained down and there would be extra tie-down chains applied and those chains will not snap. And the ship handling/modeling in DCS apparently Sucks big time. One last note about the ships lost in Typhoon Cobra, they were ordered to keep in formation and not allowed to sail into the wind which would have kept them safer.
you need to submerge and be close to sea bottom and move slowly silent running and use missiles.then quickmove and release jamming for torpedoes and also asdic etc.
Storm is completely unrealistic. Have been through a few force 10 gales on cargo ships, you adjust course and speed (most likely coming nearly to a full stop), but it won't be sinking you. Worst I've had is some water ingress through ventilation that was overlooked, a snapped MF/HF antenna and a few life rafts that have come out of their cradles and gone walkies...
I can asure you that despite the comments, i have spent nezr on two weeks in a hurican tnat took place just after an exercise started with three navies taking part. Many of the ships made a a run for Lisbon and got more damaged in there than if they had stayed at sea. We stayed at sea, and managed to save a private sea going boat that had flooded its engine room, rather than try and tow it they bought it alongbside and kept it there by setting springs that kept it tight along side we got a repair team to pump out the engine room and dry a few thing out while the crew were taken care of in sick bay. It wascthe only time that i knew of where the gallies were closed because all the cooks were bad with sea sickness, if you wanted anything you could cook it yourself this included the officers! We stayed at sea for the whole storm and basically kept the ship moving forward very slowly and travelling with the weather to try and keep the props at least in touch with the water. It was the only time i have seen a ship almost surfing the inside of a water tube, i stood on the quaterdeck with a wave going over the ship about twenty foot above my head, and just made it back inside and closed the latches on the door before the water went over the quater deck. We lost a boat and its davits ripped out of the deck, leaving a hole that was just over a fuel tank which was double skined so water did not get into the ship purely because of the waybthe ship,was built, the ship was built in 1943 and had it been a newer ship i dont thinkmitbwould have donevso well
Periscopes can be detected by radar. During WWII, the allies used radar to detect the submerged subs with nothing but their periscopes up. Modern radars are a tad better.
When I was flying in the S3 operating our mode 1 radar (periscope detection) we could see dolphins jumping in and out of the water, trash bags, waves, and of course sub periscopes. The periscope was easy to see in some cases.
How to sink a US carrier: fly high above it, eject, and use the Geneva conventions against the enemy by strapping a big bomb to the pilot. (Simulate by landing the pilot on the carrier's deck.)
Interesting. The Imperial Japanese Navy had to travel through a big storm during their cruise to get into position for the big Midway battle. Their carriers and support ships made it through the storm and that was 1930-40s tech.
Typhoons can wreak havoc on destroyers and frigates of the type in WW2 up to the 1980's. Burke Class would probably be okay with a few bumps and bruises. They're pretty solid when battened down against both fire and water. Broad hull, superstructure well inboard= a very stable ship. Ticos are very narrow and more top heavy with superstructure to the gunnels, and also vertical surfaces to the waves. As long as bulkheads hold tight, should be okay, but a scary ride for sure. Carriers - no problem except fo battening down for the ride. They ave lots of items on wheels from planes to forklifts that can break loose and cause fires. Adm Halsey's fleet suffered more storm damage during that infamous WW2 typhoon than by any Japanese attack. Those little destroyers, so narrow and top heavy with all the armament had a hard time, and some were lost. Just my opinion.
Why wasn’t the carrier groups subs sinking the Chinese subs? The carrier groups subs would know exactly where the Chinese subs were at the second they fired a torpedo or missile, and would have only a couple of minutes to live.
Missle yes torpedo probably not. Modern torpedoes leave under their own power and are so quiet that until they go active in final approach you can't hear them (according to US sonar operators) and when they go active its too late.
Nice video! Amazing simulation of the ships in rough weather - 46 m/s. About slow helos and RADAR: You seem to forget that the ships have sea-RADAR, capable of seeing everything like a small sailboat and small speedboats. Those RADARs will interpret the low flying helos as speedboats. Subs and sub surface sensors are so poorly modelled that you can just forget about it. For that you need another sim. (Nothing bad in that - this is a flight sim).
That rear end of the carrier with the opening, is there an actual DOOR that can be closed? These ships, all of them, are made for war and have more armor than your average freighter or container vessel. Still those vessels in reality can survive a big storm. I don't think these Destroyers would 'sink' so low below the ocean in the swell as here depicted, and they should be strong enough (hull wise) to withstand high waves. And the carrier is practically a floating city. I think if they just prepare for bad weather, close everything down then the carrier is just fine.
It's not that easy; if the waves are high and strong enough they can actually tip a ship over. All the armor in the world won't save you from the wrath of mother nature.
I always think it’s a great idea to fly a combat mission and mid mission check to see if your armament is ok, in fact, why not distract the pilot at the same time? It’s not like he’s got anything desperately urgent to do, like fly the helicopter, or anything….. LOL
Very rarely are all planes in the hold, there usually isn't enough room. They are ratcheted to the deck at multiple points and rarely does more than a few inches of water hit them.
cap, a 5 inch shell can and will do damage and eventual sink a sup at parascope depth, a 16 inch shell form a battleship could sink a sub at a depth of over 100 feet if it lands ontop of it.
I wonder if it will be possible to add the level of sim to DCS subs that Deep Waters has. With layers and proper sonar and all that. I'd imagine that the hardest part will be having a system that can run everything at once, Probably need a damn 64 core EPYC server to run it.
Sorry no notch for an helo, they are perfectly visible by Doppler radars even if they are fully stopped through their rotor Doppler effect so an helo is more visible than a jet in a radial position
A lot of these “under the radar sneaking tactics” would pretty much be voided by the surface search radars on carrier/crudes helos that are literally flying 24/7 over the strike group. You can’t get under that radar because it’s emanating from above you and looking down to prevent that very thing from happening.
How to beat carrier fleet: MIG-21 nuclear kamikaze
ua-cam.com/video/1K8LGTwy6Zw/v-deo.html
@@grimreapers Shame the bomb fell off/glitched or got damaged in each scenario it could work otherwise... maybe?
@@thegamingbrit4677 it does, ralfidude did it
@@killian9314 ah that’s good then
tecnicly the p700 granit the sandbox the onix, zircon and kyzal can be armed with nuclear warheads to destroy carrier groups with only one hit
CAN AN ASTEROID DEFEAT A US CARRIER GROUP?
cool
@@grimreapers what about a satellite? If they programmed reentry carefully📡🛰️😳
@@billyelliot4141 to litle controllability for normal sattelites (witch also majorily break up before).
So you need a reentry vehicle.
And then you are into ICBM's
That is y ballistic missiles exist
The Aliens probably could IRL.
I'm not sure how subs are modelled in DCS but anyone who's played Cold Waters will tell you that you're lucky you weren't instantly sunk in those Chinese subs. Starting stationary on the surface within visual range of a carrier group and then dropping only to periscope depth is not the stealthiest tactic 😅
Haha
I've pulled off similar attacks in Dangerous Waters., so it is doable even if going around with your periscope's mast up isn't the wisest thing to do.
"could they see me" well yea because your going 30 MPH with a periscope out
Precisely. I mean, even if they missed the surfaced submarines, there is no way an entire fleet would miss the amount of wake he was kicking up. Hell, that submarine looked like it was producing more than even a carrier.
Not to mention apparently the type 093 are noisy.
The Torps are supposed to snake, the issue is that fact that IRL in this snaking mode the torp turns on its active sonar and homes in on the first target it sees, the snaking is to help it get a wider FOV. They seemed to have modeled the snaking but not modeled the homing.
bingo, you can try it in a game called cold waters, if your good enough, you can sink every ship in that group.
One thing you forgot about Helicopters and Pulse Doppler Radars is that the rotor blades SHOULD light up like a Christmas tree, even if you were simply hovering stationary.
Yup good point!
witch he said in the video^^
I love this series, so much fun to watch and think of ideas myself!
Cap no submarine commander would ever approach a sub at 30knts, they would either lie in wait in front of the carriers path or sneak in at a slow speed (prob around 5knts) as to limit noise and cavitation.
thx
@@grimreapers Here is a "real life (wargame)" account of a Swedish Submarine against a US Carrier Group nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216
@@Madcat1975 ah yes the 80mil sub that sunk a carrier
@@iplaygames8090 #JustSwedishThings
Now I understand why ground effect planes like the Kaspian monster were so dangerous for a Carrier Group.
Yeah a Modernized aircraft with similar capabilities would be known as the Tu22m3... but a ground effect missile carrier with VLS would be Amazing.
The TU22M3s can and likely would kill a carrier, just a matter of saturation and land bases having more ammunition, eventually the carrier escorts run out of missiles.
Yep, shame it never turned out to be practical
How to beat carrier fleet : use its own aircraft and missiles against it
🤔
lessons learned: Iran needs to hire thor to bring on a massive storm
US carrier fleet VS US carrier fleet. Epic battle
Hah!!! That was my boat you showed in the hurricane, the USS Kitty Hawk! I was on it 1984-1988, we went through a storm like that too off Sri Lanka, it was really not that big of deal, not terribly uncomfortable or anything. They had us prepare in advance by lashing down anything that could possibly fall over or roll away, closing major hatches and almost all watertight doors. The carrier is long enough that it rides up on a wave, comes level across the next one, and noses down after the following one causing the whole ship to give a little shiver as the bow slams into the water. To most of us, it was actually fun. They can't fit all the aircraft in the hangar, so aircraft on the flight deck are double and triple-chained, they aren't going anywhere.
I survived hurrican hugo on board the cvn 59 forrestal, on our way to fleet week in new york, The hanger deck was like walking on the moon.
Water would reflect radar emissions but not enough to conceal the chopper, however, flying close to the water would help to confuse IR missiles.
As a former US Navy sub nuclear sailor I can tell you that subs go deep under a hurricane. My first boat went under one back in ‘99 and we were still rocking and moving in a figure 8 pattern at 400ft depth. We had to move below 600ft depth for things to really smooth out. It is scary how much energy a hurricane puts into the ocean.
Very cool video. In real life, radar fails to obtain usable returns from very low-level objects over the sea, and I think you'll love the reason why. Have you ever got down low and looked over a flat surface (tarmac, desert) on a really hot, sunny day? You see a weird mirage effect. This is because there is a layer of hot air causing the light to bend. Well, just over the surface of the sea there is a similar layer (except it is cooler rather than hotter) which has the same kind of effect on radar (approx wavelength 2cm, 14GHz). Sometimes this effect can be used to extend a radar's range over the horizon, but it doesn't work for small objects very low over the surface.
thxx
As a former submariner, can confirm that aside from crew comfort a nuclear submarine does not GAF about a storm.
I would dispute the weather survival of modern battleships, because of watertight doors, compartments ect they can and do cope with this weather, this was one forgotten factor about the Falklands, most of the harrier losses were due to crashes on take off in abysmal weather
I loved that you were running at periscope depth with your periscope UP and wondered how the ships could shoot at you. 1. Fast subs with periscope up leave rooster tails. 2. Periscopes can be spotted on radar. 3. Chinese submarines are horribly noisy.
So the torpedoes normally trail wires (or fibreoptic cable) behind them which would enable you steer them onto the target. If you cut the wires (or they break) the torpedo then does its own guidance and will swing left and right looking for a target, (although actually you can program different modes) if they find a target they will then lock onto that noise and home in. It looks like they just haven't modelled it very well/at all in DCS.
Interesting...
We went through two hurricanes while I was on the IKE. Our escort ships went around the best they could we did not go straight through just on the edge, no waves came over the deck. But the wall of water thrown up in front of the bow we would sail through it. The CO came on the 1MC and said anyone who goes on deck or on any weather deck and gets washed overboard he would not try and rescue you. Basically saying if you are dumb enough to go on deck, you are not with risking the lives of the helicopter and motor whale boat crews.
Yes, ASW is slow. We called it Awfully Slow Warfare. The whole ASW mode seems buggy. The battle group would have helos dropping torps on you, and the ships would be firing ASROCs. Plus the other warships would be positioning for and over the side torpedo shot.
In the rough weather, money is on the DDGs. The CGs are top heavy and ride like shit on even moderately severe weather.
It's not really a thing in DCS. A guy just added the sub controls for fun, was never supposed to be realistic thouhg :(
I was in Force 9 + on the Churchil BR Ferry in the Channel. They will not snap they flood empty fuel tanks and ballast tanks.
Interesting bit of trivia; President Gerald Ford was stationed on an aircraft carrier during a typhoon in WW2 and was almost swept out to sea.
A ww2 destroyer was a about 2500 tons loaded...a modern destroyer is 8300 tons loaded and over 100 ft longer.
A huge difference when it comes to storms sinking them.
I was on the USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 during Vietnam. We were in 3 major typhoons in 2 years. Luckily, we never lost any ships or aircraft during our extended West Pacific cruise. Looking at your video of ships in storms sent my mind back to those amazing days serving in the US Navy. Aircraft on the flight and hanger decks are tied down with heavy chains and wheel chocks, so they aren't going anywhere. Sailors on watches outside on observation decks are attached to the ship with rope. They become soaked with seawater, of course, but few sailors become lost at sea, which is a reassuring thought. Flight operations in storms are impossible, for the fleet and the enemy. It is 110 feet (ca. 34 meters) from the flight deck of the Kitty Hawk to the waterline. I personally have seen waves break over the bow of the Hawk, so the films you showed are very realistic and common.
My dad was in the North Atlantic (USS San Diego, AFS-6) during roughly the same period. By what he used to tell: Much the same, but add "testicles in your ribcage" cold. They once lost a Sea Knight over the side.
HMCS Athabaskan was in Sea State 9, with winds at 65 knots or 120 km/hr., the Royal Canadian Navy noted. Sea State 9 is defined as having waves higher than 14 metres.
Hey Cap, since you did a Star Destroyer from StarWars how about 'either' the USS Enterprise D (Galaxy Class from Star Trek) OR the ENTIRE US Navy fleet with the first carrier called Enterprise, but then use all the ships the US had available during that time.
lol You been watching star trek on FILM four
Will see what I can find.
The modeled storm was worse than that shown in the video of the carrier. The difference was that in the video, it was white water on deck - ie, mostly spray and foam. As modeled, it was definitely showing green water on deck - ie, unbroken water - which translates out to tons of water on deck. Odds on, that would cause the carrier to ship so much water it would sink, even if the back was not broken. Of course, as modeled the ships were pitching far more than would be expected given the wave length shown; so I would draw no conclusions about the ability of a 90 knot wind to sink a carrier.
Depending on the depth of the Sub, it might feel the waves. the US Sub i served on it 1982 did feel them at 150 feet
Basic Carrier Group attack is as follows. Dive early go slow separate yourselves. Do not put your Periscope up it can be seen on radar. Use passive sonar just absorb their sound and follow it till your close. On a predetermined one pulse signal. Go to Periscope depth and immediately deploy all weapons.
Crash dice and pray because those submarines have all launched on you and your dead. At the speed and depth you were traveling they would have heard you 500 miles away.
You must use thermoclines in the water, different temperatures cause sonar and radar reflection. To hide, run silent run deep.
the destroyers lost during typhoon cobra were fletchers modern arleigh burks are close to the size of a Atlanta class cruiser which historically braved typhoon cobra without major damage or loss of life.
Hope you enjoy video
Great video!! Would be awesome to do a complete helicopter fleet swarm.... a Hind Zerg Rush (50+) vs fleet in a snow storm! As snow doesn't reflect radar as well as rain, adding to targeting issues, visibility and maybe get that "you sunk my -battle- Carrier" win we're all rooting for!
This was really enjoyable, thanks guys!!
modern, sonar guided torpedoes generally do a snake pattern to search for targets after reaching a certain distance while air dropped and rocket launched torpedoes usually do circle patterns. Although they might be programmable to do either or something entirely different.
Information is not easy to come by for torpedoes, but modern ones (according to sonar operators) are silent until they go active in their final approach, and by then it's too late. They will also hang out/seek in a defined area (box) autonomously waiting on a target. During practice there have been subs "sank" by their own torpedoes when they ended up in the box area doing evasive maneuvers.
Modern torpedoes don't run at the surface.
@ 25.03min You watched the full "15 min happy dance workout" that would be youtube gold when the fly on the wall posted that video:)
Subs can actually easily defeat a US Carrier group. its been proven time and time again in military ex's. Especially non nuclear subs.
Non nuclear subs, with no systems running are holes in the water, they simply don't make noise. next in an area like the Persian gulf, there are TONS of ship wrecks, sunken oil rigs, and other "clutter". A sub captain can very easily Find one of these clutter points on the map, and set his sub on the bottom, right next to it. So now you have a silent sub, sitting next to a large metallic structure that will mess up MAD Detection's AND mess up active sonar detection.
the sub then just waits for the carrier group to travel over its position. Since there are very limited shipping channels... a captain can likely ensure the carrier will pass within between 0 and 10 nautical miles of their sub. From there, they can fire torps at almost point blank range. this could be anywhere from 4 to 8 torpedoes...
Helicopters produce such a strong doppler pulse with their advancing and receding rotors. Helicopters are doppler noisy, no stealth there. I tracked many helicopters that were flying parallel to us and at the same speed with our targeting radar when I was in the Navy. The radar locks onto the spinning rotors, ours had a sound feedback system, and I could always tell when I locked onto a helicopter, the sound in the headphones was 'swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss'. I operated and maintained those Seasparrow launchers/radars that you see on the side of the carrier.
It is one 30mm cannon with two barrels on a "alternatively locking breech", and not two guns, on the model Mi24 displayed (Mi24-P)
Can’t see this working as anti missile defence systems like sea wolf, Cwizz ect are designed to take out things like Exocet which are sea skimming missiles
A US carrier group was sunk several times in war games by a Swedish Gotland class sub
You almost flew into the tanker at 9:30 and didn't even notice it :D
No chance of flying Airwolf against them? 9I’m aware that this doesn’t actually exist - but if I remember correctly it was supposed to be a mach2 capable stealth helicopter - I think, lol). You just Stringfellow Hawk to pilot it….. memories, memories 😔😔😪
My father served in the United States Navy from Korea through the Vietnam War. Destroyers have to put to Sea and evade or ride out hurricanes and or force 10 gales.
I have photographs of these ships returning to Harbor with three feet of solid ice on their upper works
The old diesel Canadian submarines would sink American aircraft carriers in war games. At first the Americans said that was impossible, so they put a spotter on a Canadian submarine and the spotter verified a carrier getting sunk again while he was on board.
Jeez, DCS is almost as buggy as Cyberpunk.
Twas a valiant effort though
24:40 Also, that’s SALT WATER. If the wave doesn’t get you, the corrosion will…
lols
A periscope is seen by a ships radar cap! Has been able to do so since ww2
thx
They say the carrier top speed is actually classified due to they don’t want enemy’s to know how fast they can really go, in case of subs or other things firing at them. So they probably go faster then 60 knots, sounds crazy but I believe it.
I don't know if this will make it onto the list but here's a try...Combo attack! Attempt to use combinations of previous attacks but with smaller numbers for each attacking type (that is controlled by AI). Example instead of 100 Fast Attack Boats try 25 FAB, 4 Kamikaze aircraft and some land based Anti-Ship missiles or two Chinese Destroyers.
If a you did a sub attack like that in real life running on parascope you would have so many anti sub helos on you and droping topedos. they would do that even if you were submeged
There would be no flight ops going on in winds and seas that strong. Everything would not only be chained down and there would be extra tie-down chains applied and those chains will not snap. And the ship handling/modeling in DCS apparently Sucks big time. One last note about the ships lost in Typhoon Cobra, they were ordered to keep in formation and not allowed to sail into the wind which would have kept them safer.
The guns are damaging the guidewires on the torpedos is my guess.
Cap use the autopilot of the Gazell you can fly veryvery deep with it
This was fun.
I see you have the smale cocpit fan spinning... very realistic
I half expected to see a torpedo hitting that hornet mid-air.
you need to submerge and be close to sea bottom and move slowly silent running and use missiles.then quickmove and release jamming for torpedoes and also asdic etc.
It seems that based on your simulations the answer is yes everything beats the CG
80% are fails, but we are getting better at figuring out what can beat it.
Love the content man love it
Can another US carrier fleet defeat a US carrier fleet
Lol
How you get your DCS to be like this? it dont seem like regular DCS
Storm is completely unrealistic. Have been through a few force 10 gales on cargo ships, you adjust course and speed (most likely coming nearly to a full stop), but it won't be sinking you. Worst I've had is some water ingress through ventilation that was overlooked, a snapped MF/HF antenna and a few life rafts that have come out of their cradles and gone walkies...
I feel like I need to hear the Magnum PI theme while watching them...
Haha flipped thumbnail. That Mi-24 looked odd until I realised it was flipped.
well spotted
I can asure you that despite the comments, i have spent nezr on two weeks in a hurican tnat took place just after an exercise started with three navies taking part.
Many of the ships made a a run for Lisbon and got more damaged in there than if they had stayed at sea.
We stayed at sea, and managed to save a private sea going boat that had flooded its engine room, rather than try and tow it they bought it alongbside and kept it there by setting springs that kept it tight along side we got a repair team to pump out the engine room and dry a few thing out while the crew were taken care of in sick bay.
It wascthe only time that i knew of where the gallies were closed because all the cooks were bad with sea sickness, if you wanted anything you could cook it yourself this included the officers!
We stayed at sea for the whole storm and basically kept the ship moving forward very slowly and travelling with the weather to try and keep the props at least in touch with the water.
It was the only time i have seen a ship almost surfing the inside of a water tube, i stood on the quaterdeck with a wave going over the ship about twenty foot above my head, and just made it back inside and closed the latches on the door before the water went over the quater deck.
We lost a boat and its davits ripped out of the deck, leaving a hole that was just over a fuel tank which was double skined so water did not get into the ship purely because of the waybthe ship,was built, the ship was built in 1943 and had it been a newer ship i dont thinkmitbwould have donevso well
Periscopes can be detected by radar. During WWII, the allies used radar to detect the submerged subs with nothing but their periscopes up. Modern radars are a tad better.
When I was flying in the S3 operating our mode 1 radar (periscope detection) we could see dolphins jumping in and out of the water, trash bags, waves, and of course sub periscopes. The periscope was easy to see in some cases.
How to sink a US carrier: fly high above it, eject, and use the Geneva conventions against the enemy by strapping a big bomb to the pilot. (Simulate by landing the pilot on the carrier's deck.)
Dr strangelove ...ride the bomb down
now try a scuba diver with a nuclear demolition charge !?
cool
How many cows can you put on a carrier before it sinks?
Interesting. The Imperial Japanese Navy had to travel through a big storm during their cruise to get into position for the big Midway battle. Their carriers and support ships made it through the storm and that was 1930-40s tech.
Typhoons can wreak havoc on destroyers and frigates of the type in WW2 up to the 1980's. Burke Class would probably be okay with a few bumps and bruises. They're pretty solid when battened down against both fire and water. Broad hull, superstructure well inboard= a very stable ship. Ticos are very narrow and more top heavy with superstructure to the gunnels, and also vertical surfaces to the waves. As long as bulkheads hold tight, should be okay, but a scary ride for sure. Carriers - no problem except fo battening down for the ride. They ave lots of items on wheels from planes to forklifts that can break loose and cause fires.
Adm Halsey's fleet suffered more storm damage during that infamous WW2 typhoon than by any Japanese attack. Those little destroyers, so narrow and top heavy with all the armament had a hard time, and some were lost. Just my opinion.
When the periscope is up you can be picked up on radar.
thx
Why wasn’t the carrier groups subs sinking the Chinese subs? The carrier groups subs would know exactly where the Chinese subs were at the second they fired a torpedo or missile, and would have only a couple of minutes to live.
Missle yes torpedo probably not. Modern torpedoes leave under their own power and are so quiet that until they go active in final approach you can't hear them (according to US sonar operators) and when they go active its too late.
Nice video! Amazing simulation of the ships in rough weather - 46 m/s. About slow helos and RADAR: You seem to forget that the ships have sea-RADAR, capable of seeing everything like a small sailboat and small speedboats. Those RADARs will interpret the low flying helos as speedboats. Subs and sub surface sensors are so poorly modelled that you can just forget about it. For that you need another sim. (Nothing bad in that - this is a flight sim).
That rear end of the carrier with the opening, is there an actual DOOR that can be closed? These ships, all of them, are made for war and have more armor than your average freighter or container vessel. Still those vessels in reality can survive a big storm. I don't think these Destroyers would 'sink' so low below the ocean in the swell as here depicted, and they should be strong enough (hull wise) to withstand high waves. And the carrier is practically a floating city. I think if they just prepare for bad weather, close everything down then the carrier is just fine.
It's not that easy; if the waves are high and strong enough they can actually tip a ship over
It's not that easy; if the waves are high and strong enough they can actually tip a ship over. All the armor in the world won't save you from the wrath of mother nature.
In the subs you are cavitating like crazy and they can detect your periscope.
I always think it’s a great idea to fly a combat mission and mid mission check to see if your armament is ok, in fact, why not distract the pilot at the same time? It’s not like he’s got anything desperately urgent to do, like fly the helicopter, or anything….. LOL
Can we see similar on Admiral Kuznetsov?
Very rarely are all planes in the hold, there usually isn't enough room. They are ratcheted to the deck at multiple points and rarely does more than a few inches of water hit them.
cap, a 5 inch shell can and will do damage and eventual sink a sup at parascope depth, a 16 inch shell form a battleship could sink a sub at a depth of over 100 feet if it lands ontop of it.
thx
Is that Robert Llewelyn?
Do the Oliver hazard perry have depth chargers? I know that they're armed with triple torpedo tunes though and are designed to hunt and kill subs!
Not in DCS, maybe in real life.
I was on the Kitty Hawk for that storm.
Wait with combined arms you can control ships now?
Kind of....
A Very interesting show,thanks,
I wonder if it will be possible to add the level of sim to DCS subs that Deep Waters has. With layers and proper sonar and all that. I'd imagine that the hardest part will be having a system that can run everything at once, Probably need a damn 64 core EPYC server to run it.
Cap's submarine shall be christened the Brave Sir Robin.
Fun video.
Sorry no notch for an helo, they are perfectly visible by Doppler radars even if they are fully stopped through their rotor Doppler effect so an helo is more visible than a jet in a radial position
The back of the destroyer looks sealed up so it should be fine for now.
Megladons and whales vs carrier group plz
lol
A lot of these “under the radar sneaking tactics” would pretty much be voided by the surface search radars on carrier/crudes helos that are literally flying 24/7 over the strike group. You can’t get under that radar because it’s emanating from above you and looking down to prevent that very thing from happening.
Give the CIWS and 5" cannon weapons something to fire at and see if DCS accurately represent that waves and water would block the projectiles....?
What a beautiful mess. Fun video.
Handy Wind... heh.
Clearly you need to just use 100 A-10Cs
please don't mess with Cap's sub
A mission like this would be done at night
The RWR on the 'French helicopter' whichever that is, looks similar to the Mirage's
Edit: it's Gazelle
agree