Lore Aside, Rhulk's fight is something I hope Bungie takes and runs with it in future raids and dungeons. That fact that Rhulk talks and has lines during the fight, taunts us during the fight added such a nice touch made it that much more satisfying to finish him off
Rhulk is why Vow is my favorite raid. He is actively partaking in the fight, unlike other raid bosses. You can feel him going from "Ima take y'all casually" to "I will annihilate you and everything you hold dear" when the DPS phase starts.
What I love about the eliksni bosses is that they are all way out of their league when we consider the power scale, but still put on a good fight by just having absolutely insane ideas and contraptions.
@@razatiger22 The Eliksni never had the light. The Traveler bestowed the Eliksni with technological advances, terraforming and such, but they never had the Light.
I think the devil splicers could have become much more powerful if left unchecked, given they had never mastered siva by the time we took them out. I think the strongest (ex?)eliksni we fight in D2 is the caretaker, funny enough. It's still got docked arm stumps, probably making it the most powerful dreg in destiny.
I'd say Rhulk is S+ lol. Knowing everything about Rhulk makes his defeat at our hands so satisfying. Especially when he goes from composed wielder of Darkness to a frenzied brawler when he realizes he's about to die. His arrogance (Admittedly, rightfully earned) was his undoing, and I suspect the Witness saw it coming.
Just imagine how the Witness reacted: *sees his best Rook died, closes curtain. Goes to chess board and flicks piece resembling Rulk onto the floor*. They may not even care about any of its pawns. They probably don’t even consider Savathun or Mara players. Only the Traveler seems to be its adversary sitting across the board, and I feel they have gotten jaded of the Traveler continuously throwing the board in frustration.
Well we took advantage of his inflated ego. And that was just the thing we needed to beat him. And this is just one Disicple. Imagine fighting even more. We need multiple fireteams in tandem to take them on.
Well Rhulk was already on the Witness' shitlist for a couple of failures. He was considered to be a disappointment to the Witness when we find him, put on Disciple recruitment duty rather than in the field. So I'd say he's hardly the Witness' best stock.
I always saw Taniks as being similar to General Grievous from Star Wars. He’s a cyborg who doesn’t have any special powers but he still manages to go head-to-head with beings that are much more powerful than him and win anyway
One of my favorite tropes is a villain who manages to hit way above his weight class, not because hes crazy skilled or ultra powerful, but just because hes ballsy enough to try.
Calus is hard to rate. One of his automatons was a raid boss. In the lore from the derelict Glycon, he controls at least 4 automatons at once. By Season of the Haunted, he seems to be remotely inhabiting the Leviathan which contains an army of the things.
@@redautobotsoldier3812 which means I'm immortal even when I get dethroned, cuz I've lived on in other forms. What's Calus got on that?! Nothing. He hides from death behind his army of robots, what a wimp. He'll never be the Final Shape in this universe, he doesn't deserve it.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 and I've now outlived Rhulk, and come Lightfall I'll outlive Calus, since I'm alive in Touch of Malice whilst Rhulk isn't and Calus will probably be killed.
The fact that rhulk was "playing the part" during his fight by not instantly killing or worse doing horrible, otherworldly things to our guardians just because he can just shows that he in fact is extremely powerful. Oyrx implied it himself with kingsfall. If you aren't fighting for your life, you aren't fighting at full potential and it shows with Rhulks last stand. He sees you as worthy. He sees you as something he needs to fight for his life in order to survive. If he fought like that at the beginning we wouldn't even gotten close to him before he would have just ate the guardians light. Rhulk should be feared just from the fact that he would have saw oryx as a mere child to him
The thing is, Rhulk WAS defeated because of his ego. His full potential was certainly much higher, but in the end, it was hindered by his own ego. It's like a warehouse full of wet gunpowder: it has the potential to wipe out the entire city, but the moisture held it back.
Where in the lore is this stated? I have heard tons of people say that the only reason the guardians killed hulk was because he underestimated them but I haven’t been able to find the quote. Do you mind sharing?
I think the easiest way to show how Rhulk is a power level above Oryx is pointing out Rhulk is single handedly responsible for the entire context of reality Oryx is aware of, and it was something Rhulk thought was a boring job to do.
Yeah I wish the game would recognize this more, like “holy shit this guy has killed every major player in the universe over the course of less than a decade”, but that never gets brought up in game
@@psythen4562 Most kids who fight their dads lose. But that is mostly because the dad has everything to lose in the fights, so he isn't gonna hold back.
I would personally like too see all raid bosses. I’m not a UA-camr so I don’t know the logistics or anything but it would be cool if they were ranked on this same tier list. Obviously most of them would be lower tiers but it would still be cool too see every raid boss ever on this list. I know that would be a massive undertaking since many bosses have little lore to them and the length of the video would likely be twice the size of this one. But I know myself and some others would appreciate it
I'll see about more of these given that you've all seemed to enjoy this one. A big uptick in comments on this video compared to most so I'll see about more of these when things are dry content wise.
I really want the darkness’ “Resonance” to be the last subclass we unlock. It would be so cool to command the same power that caused the collapse of humanity all those centuries ago.
I feel like powers such as the Vault of Glass and Siva almost need to be reclassified as “hyper-causal,” meaning they’re powerful enough to overcome even paracausal magics.
No. Guardians wield paracausal power, and Ghosts are AI that channel the Light, but they are still very much affected by physical phenomena. This would include the likes of SIVA, and extend to the ontological weaponry of the Vault of Glass, with the Vault representing the pinnacle of what causal physics can achieve within the Vex domains. On the other hand, all it took was Kabr infusing the Aegis, a construct he made with Vex technology, with his own Light to create a relic that could break the Vex's power within the Vault, and shield Guardians from the Vault's power. Being able to kill a Guardian shouldn't warrant a made-up "hyper-causal" classification or the like; each race has been shown to permanently kill Guardians and their Ghosts without such advanced technology. The Hive are simply the ones that operated on the closest level due to their magic, while the others have utilized massive amounts of firepower to attain the result of killing Ghosts and permanently killing Guardians. We might have paracausal power, but we never were invincible.
@@Catalyst375 The tone I’m reading this with is interesting. Like you’re upset about my original comment. It’s also amusing that you call my word made up, for the obvious reason…. I simply thought it’s worth mentioning that sometimes we encounter beings or weapons of immense power that can eclipse the Light despite not being paracausal. If memory serves, Byf was taking off points in this video for being “just causal,” despite having immense power we barely defeated. As for my idea, Siva is hyper-causal because it can completely negate paracausal forces through sheer, overwhelming causality, in a way no mere bullet could. At least, that was my understanding regarding Sundance. I’m not sure if we still keep to that standard for what can kill a Ghost, given we pop them like bubbles these days. But we can go back and forth on that all day.
... Guardians are paracausal glass canons they can be killed with sufficient fire power including their ghosts🤷🏾♂️....and in combat they are not very impressive all you have to do is watch the Savala destiny 2 launch cinematic he gets bodied by fodder twice and had to be revived....
I think at minimum Aetheon is A tier. The fact that he can erase people from existence and jump through time is what makes the Vex so insane. In the lore, the Vex pretty much crush every other race outside of the Hive.
The vex crush even the hive aswell, in the flower game they dominated every single time the simulation was ran. The power to erase entire races from existence is something that’s hard for even oryx to do.
Aksis is honestly my favorite raid boss but I absolutely agree with the rating. He's no pushover by any means but it really speaks to how the eliksni really have been crippled by power creep over the years.
I think Ahamkara in general are hard to place on a power scale. Armies of them have been wiped out by a pair of guardians, but as Byf said Riven bamboozled Oryx, and even the Guardian lest we forget. On top of that, Ahamkara can't really die can they? They just sort of...change. I'm not entirely convinced that they couldn't just remake themselves in certain situations.
I'm in full agreement with Riven. Something that can dance around even the Winnower's ideology is scary. I imagine once the Witness and the Darkness are driven back this Wish Magic stuff will be able to flourish their wings. Maybe we can learn to harness it.
But weren't the ahamkara hunted to extinction with riven being the last one? Seems to me that Riven isnt all that powerful, but rather a very good tool for Savathun to use
@@MaxMustermann-si4kj In Season of the Lost, we saw that Mara kept a single Ahamkara egg in her chambers, so it's very likely that they will be a plot point again sometime
@@MaxMustermann-si4kj Patsonical took the words right out of my mouth but I'd like to add one thing, the Nine. Since the Ahamkara are tied so close to the Nine they both could lead to a fun story point later on after the Darkness saga is over. Someone made a great post about Albios, a lesser known character, and how his mysterious death could hint at a "Void Realm" being a real tangible place with the Nine and possibly the Ahamkara involved.
@@MaxMustermann-si4kj the ONE thing limiting the Ahamkara is that they need the wishes of others to twist. They can in theory fullfill their own wishes, but if they do so they destroy themselves. But once they have a wish to work with (and its easier than it seems seeing they may catch even unspoken wishes), their power is essentially limitless as they literally eat at reality until the wish comes true. Also note that the monkey paw effect is deliberate, as a bigger change that was asked for feeds the ahamkara further; however there apparently was at least one of their specie that just fullfilled wishes without twisting them.
After we finally encounter Xivu (hopefully as a fully realized disciple) we can get a lore power ranking of the three sister at their prime. That'll be a really interesting discussion.
Oryx, who took the powers of a Worm God and waged war with the Solar System because of lineage and Crota. Savathun, who was given the light and stole the Traveler and was able to manipulate so many people during her time with us. Xivu Arath, who now (currently) controls the forces of the Darkness under the Witness (possibly as a disciple) and is known as the War God of the Hive. Legit, that would be a fun lore video to go around on, because all three of them (arguably and equally) have their own merit of danger. Fingers crossed bungie gives a heck of a go with Xivu between Lightfall and Final Shape!
Maybe a tier list vid on all the Fallen/Eliksni kells? I’d be interested to see how they all rank up, I’d probably say they’d be ranked individually over them and their respective Houses though. Or maybe a tier list on all the Iron Lords and/or Warlods potentially?
That wouldn't per say be difficult. S-Tier: Chelchis, Craask A-Tier: Eramis, Mara Sov, Inaaks B-Tier: Solkis, Virixas, Skolas, Misraaks C-Tier: Draksis, Uldren Sov D-Tier: Drifis, Unnamed Kell of Scar E-Tier: Variks (No Eliksni but a select few were willing to side with him.) F-Tier: The Unnamed Kells killed in lore long ago. I rated them based on around multiple factors: Leadership, Abilities, House Size, Status amongst the Eliksni, and Lore. Chelchis was considered a living legend amongst the Eliksni as he was willing to throw his life and house against the Maw, supposedly to save the rest of his race. Craask is another S-Tier because he is an orchestrative mastermind, responsible for many important events in Eliksni history as well as being the only known Kell of House Kings, the highest House caste in Destiny lore. The rest I wish not to go into too much detail, but if you could understand why I placed the characters where I did, that would be excellent.
It would be cool, but do we know many guardians in the lore? Like what their power level would be? I know we know Ikora and maybe shaxx and saint, but no other with enough creditable evidence come to mind
What’s funny is the guardian is a basic guardian. The reason we are so powerful is because skill with the light and dark and knowledge that surpasses even the smartest warlocks.
I'm saying this now, I would love to see you do a tier list for campaign and expansion bosses. I'm talking about the Heart of the Black Garden, Skolas, Ghaul, Uldren Sov, etc.
I always felt like the Vex were something that were made weaker to actually make it something that can be fought against. I feel like the capabilities that were given to them lore-wise would have made them utterly unstoppable in a technical sense. Like they have the opposite of plot armor, like a plot weakness. Or, even more terrifying, that they simply let guardians THINK that they were beatable to give false confidence. Maybe they choose to let the Light live to give opposition to the other forces of darkness, which they despise.
For anyone who wants to make the mistake of comparing Oryx to Rhulk remember that Oryx served the Worm gods and will devour him if he ever fails to deliver enough tribute. The Worm gods serve Rhulk. Rhulk served The Witness. It's a completely different scale of power. It's basically middle management compared to a C-suite executive.
It's also why I rank Savathun above Oryx in terms of power. She's still no match for Rhulk but she's powerful enough to trap him and I don't think you can trap a Disciple of the Witness with just trickery alone. You need to be close enough in power to trap him with trickery or he'll just break through it with power alone.
@@urazz7739 She trapped Rhulk with the light though. We could've trapped Rhulk with the light too, but unlike Savathun, we didn't spend countless eons researching the light. Even Osiris is ignorant compared to the swathe of knowledge Savathun has on the Traveler and the Light.
Something I can't help but wonder about are the implications that the Witness favor Nezarec more than Rhulk despite the Latter's powers and feat. The witness had been known to be willing to save a life in exchange for more lives to be ended. Rhulk is proof of that. Now take into consideration everything that happened in the Season of the Haunted. Despite Calus being at the core of it, the main problem at that time are the Nightmares formed through the "defense mechanism" of the Lunar Pyramid. We haven't even seen the extent of what can Nezarec and its Pyramid can do. Nezarec is even referred to as an "End" and seem to possess the same transcendence to death that Ahamkaras posses. With Delicate Tomb implying Nezarec's consciousness is within the relics similar to how Ahamkaras are with their bones. All this lore about Nezarec possibly returning and the Witness trying to make Calus fuse with the Lunar Pyramid, Nezarec's Pyramid. Makes me wonder if the Witness' plan is to use Calus as some sort of vessel for Nezarec's return. The witness is known to use deception (like what it did to the Hive) maybe, it didn't tell Calus the full truth. Calus will indeed be the last, but not as "Calus" he will be "Nezarec".
Honestly kind of want to see that video ranking power for all the non-final encounter bosses. Yeah, it's fun to talk about the big boys, but I think there's an equally interesting debate about the weaker bosses specifically because they aren't so far above everything else, and in a hypothetical battle royale, there's a lot more ways things could play out. Deathsinger has a lot of power, but is too much of a glass cannon to get anywhere, especially when you have other hive involved who will know to target them before the song finishes. The Psionic War Beasts from the Leviathan Pleasure Gardens could be a real sleeper pick, considering how little we know about psionic powers. They could potentially hard counter paracausal bosses like the Techeuns or Daughters of Oryx by overwhelming their minds, preventing them from using their abilities. Maybe. Again, very unclear how psionic powers actually work. Warpriest is pretty tough, but dies when he gets distracted dealing with the Gatekeepers from VoG, and doesn't notice the the flaming servitor from the sparrow section of Scourge of the Past barreling towards him at top speed. Golgoroth and Morgeth are basically the same dude. Golgoroth tries to kill Morgeth, but he looks into his face and they share a moment of understanding. Golgoroth cannot bear to kill the only other one who knows what it's like being the mediocre mid-boss of the raid. The Caretaker from Vow looks on from the distance. He knows this pain all too well, and wants to go hang out with them, but two of Atraks-1's replications keep stunning him when he tries to do anything. In a particularly shocking upset, the past, present, and future Gatekeepers from VoG all die to the WotM Siege Engine. Gahlran's Illusions attempt to kill the harpy from GoS, but keep getting into arguments about messing up the tethers. All three, and the harpy, are also eventually killed by the Siege Engine, which at this point has been commandeered by non-abomination Taniks, who was only allowed in on a technicality of having a different title during DSC Descent, and thus not being the same boss as he is in the final encounter. Vosik is eliminated after he accidentally gets himself locked in the Last Wish Vault. Atraks-1 survives to at least the final few by hanging out in the leviathan Gauntlet while her replications do all the work.
Atheon will always have a special place because he was the first. 14yo me had never learned a story like its before. A being piloted by radiolaria, robot but not microorganisms, that controls timelines and acts not out of intention, but instinct. We're so used to intelligent beings having the power but Atheon, and the rest of the Vex, are more animal than anything else. Because of this, the Vault of Glass is genuinely TERRIFYING
I agree with Riven in S tier. In Truth to Power, there is a description of the ahamkara’s power, relating it to the darkness and the anthem anathema, converting desire to reality. In the hidden dossier it even confirms this is a good description. The ahamkara literally evolved to take advantage of the latent dark paracausal principles of the universe. Crazy.
At points like this it's a reminder that having just one pyramid ship to call his own was a major feat by itself and to face the witness with potentially hundreds or thousands of them or perhaps even more is insane
Additionally, we have to consider the fact that in most of the raids, we are fighting the bosses on their own turf, or that there are extenuating circumstances that are making the boss more of a threat than of we were fighting them on more even ground (what made Insurrection Prime such a threat was that it was smack dab in the middle of the Last City).
I'd love to see a tier list ranking the power of different guardians we've seen and heard of from the lore. People like Saint-14 and Osiris were once only names back in Destiny 1, but are now characters we've seen and had extensive lore on in Destiny 2. I'd love to see a comparison with them, Eris, the vanguard, Shaxx, and maybe people like Eris' fireteam who were defeated by Crota or Praedith. Loved the video, can't wait to see more!
I normally just listen to byf’s videos while I work, but this time for some reason i got my phone out and saw the “top tier use of super” part 😂😂 LOVE IT!!!
You should do a ranking of all major bosses throughout campaigns, dungeons, and raids. It would be really interesting. Probably just add to this list or something
Honestly, and I know this is a HUGE ask, I'd love to see a ranking of the in-game stories. Very interested in hearing your thoughts and reasoning of everything from D1 Vanilla to Season of Plunder.
Idk if anyone mentioned it but on destinypedia in the Trivia tab for insurrection prime it say that during the Livestream Raid Along the devs said Insurrection prime's wipe mechanic is big enough to destroy the entire last city. Now idk about you but that seems like a pretty important point to take into account
love this. You should do more tier list with lore in mind of course. Because it really shows the feats of Guardian's and how strong Guardian's truly are to people. How they defeated these enemies of humanity/ Sol system and more. People seriously downplay these guys. All in All Great video as always Byf.
I’d love to see other bosses ranked based on this criteria. Strike bosses, dungeon bosses, or even lesser raid bosses. You could even do a list of deceased guardians; that might be interesting.
Bungie should definitely add the Cerberus Vae III strike back into the game, all because of the fact that whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold
would be nice to see a tier list of the power of individual guardians by lore, but it's understandably difficult to do, given that there are not many descriptions or displays of their prowess, only their fame
I definitely agree about Riven. Given that every being has desires and her powers are likely fueled by desires, she could have been used as an immensely destructive weapon had we not put her down.
Regarding Atheon, lore and the description of the void and stasis in the game’s tabs suggest that Stasis and the Void can be used to manipulate time and space. Elizabeth, at one point in the dark future, used a dusk field grenade to suspend her bed and other items in frozen time when Ana sought her out to defeat Eris and Savathun. It also makes sense that Ikora is Warlock Vanguard, as a master of the Void, she can shift through dimensions, affect gravity, and distort space and time. Causing destruction across the battlefield, or subvert the laws of physics and time.
I always interpreted the fight with Val Ca'uor to be less fighting a random low ranked Val and more like the last collective strength of the Red Legion itself. The Val was outfitted with the best gear and supported by the remaining most powerful ships of the Legion's fleet, although that clearly still wasnt enough
Especially since you decided to randomly throw in Skolas I definitely think this vid should have been a Campaign Big Bad's + Raid Bosses ranking. Sometimes they overlap anyways(Oryx was the main enemy in the main campaign for Taken King) and Ghaul, Eramis , Savathun and Fikrul all pose/posed as big or bigger threats than a lot on this list.
When Byf started talking about Oryx saying "he has put 100 of thousands...", I thought he was going to say "hours grinding for the darkness." cause like he did in a way
Wait if I remember correctly isn't there a triumph for beating dsc and it gives you some sort of helmet which you can place in the house next to the exo stranger? I've always assumed that the helmet came from taniks
Though it is true Rhulk posseses the most raw strength of all raid bosses, raw strength is not always enough to win as proven by his defeat at our hands. He underestimated his opponents leaving himself wideopen for unexpected attacks. If he was to go against Riven, she could easily turn all his paracausal strength against him after he wished to defeat her. With self-righteous state of mind that Rhulk he's left vulnerable to cleverness of his enemies
i dont know if that would be necessarily the case for why riven could potentially beat him. it takes a presupposition that he underestimates everything equally and for the same reason, to believe that someone like riven would win through similar means. i personally think that part of his underestimation of the guardians was due to a bigotry against the light, less so that he thought he was simply too powerful. i draw this conclusion from two points: the time he captured a ghost for study, and his fanaticism of the Witness. to point one, it seems to suggest that he lacks knowledge of the light and what it can do, which is also shown by the effectiveness of the light curse against his pyramid ship, thus his goal was experimentation, until the traveler detonated the ghost. to the second point, he sets the Witness far above everything else in his mind, to Rhulk, the Witness is the most powerful and by extension the powers he has obtained through him would be unmatched. to further why i dont think Rhulk would approach this fight the same way, it would be rather safe to assume Rhulk has encountered ahamkara before, and if the theory that the wyrm gods are ahamkara is be believed, then he even enslaved some. i come to this conclusion through probability, Rhulk predates the hive, which are said to be billions of years old, thus he has a fair estimate of billions of years, and in that time due to his paracausal "weight", i think ahamkara would seek him out, and if not id imagine that Rhulk would have at the very least heard about them and thought to use them in bringing about the final shape. also lets not forget that Rhulk made the hive, so it would stand to reason he was observing around the time Xivu "allegedly" encountered them in the books of sorrow
@@isaiahmazurkiewicz8906 he did get tricked by Savathun and heavily underestimated a fireteam of guardians, meaning he is not smart enough to resist Riven's wish magic like Mara or Savathun could. If these two were to encounter, Riven would have enough strength to bring the whole universe to its knees as it was once almost done. Im not sure it was Riven, but Ikora once accidentally made a wish that almost brought an end to the existence itself, luckly Mara prevented that outcome. So I have no doubts Riven can defeat Rhulk if she wanted to
Btw Byf, Established titles has been confirmed to be a scam. They dont actually plant trees, and there is no such thing as owning 1-foot land in Scotland.
Easy answer for me. I would love a tier list of the story/lore of every destiny release, seasons included. Since it’s contents haven’t been touched in a long time, I’d love to see how the story and lore of a season like SOT Drifter line up to other seasons. Obviously that season had a lackluster gameplay loop, but it was the first comprehensive info we got into what the Nine are and the Ecdysis lore book about Orin trumps every other Destiny 2 lore book for me. Compared to season everyone (myself included) love, I think this season’s lore could surprise, and I’d love to see how you think every Destiny release’s stories weight up against each other
I hope bungie will eventually actually start treating the vex as a massive threat again as for a while it’s always them being cucked by almost every faction . It almost feels like every since destiny 2 they made them way too weak while making the other factions power bullshit ridiculous like the fact that the broken red legion with three stupid ass Psions can just casually hijack there systems and they can’t do fuck all about it.
The vex are terrifying in their own way, though; unlike the fallen, cabal, and maybe even hive, there will never be an alliance with the vex. It will always be vex vs everything else, including the witness/darkness
The Vex are so tricky to integrate into the story because they use time travel, which is the easiest way to remove any stakes in a story. They're either pathetically weak or stronger than the Witness, and it's hard to get an in-between.
Nah they cant adapt that good. They have splintered into factions and they have wars with one another. Their code is corrupted and this results to computing errors.
I'd love to see another tier list ranking the other raid bosses, like the Warpriest, the Consecrated Mind, the Caretaker, etc. Obviously nowhere near as powerful as the raid bosses in this video, but I love learning about the lore in a simple tierlist like these, and I think you'll gain a lot of followers by doing these.
I have a feeling that if Oryx ever did find out about the existence of Rhulk, he probably would be fucking livid. Because he truly believed that he was the closest connection to the darkness and yet Rhulk is the first disciple of the Witness and literally made the Hive for shits and giggles to see if they could actually be of use for the goals of reaching the Final Shape. Knowing him he would probably rant a bit in a book of sorrow verse if he had learned of his existence, and then probably go after weaker disciples of the Witness and then finally face Rhulk to try to prove that only he should deserve to be that close to darkness. The only question though is whether the Witness or Rhulk would directly intervene if they see that their disciples are dying one by one from their experiment that is the hive?
the witness would probably encourage Oryx to do that. hes all for final shape stuff. Rhulk as arrogant he is, will probably shrug it off as a meme. Until its to late. Although that fight will be legendary.
As someone who tries to keep up on the lore as much as possible, I completely agreed with the ranking you did. I'm a HUGE Hive fan, and even with that, I still knew Rhulk would rank where he did. Despite Savathun trapping him in her throneworld, it was easy to see it was hard for her to keep him there. I have to wonder if she actually DID manage to keep the Traveler inside her throneworld, could that have helped her subjugate the subjugator? I was happy to see Sanctified Mind ahead of Atheon. I've had debates about this with clanmates and other people who think "Atheon could beat Sanctified Mind". If there ever was a fight between those 2, I'd bet on Sanctified Mind. Yes, Atheon's Oracles *could* mark Sancti, but I think he could still beat Atheon due to the darkness power advantage, whereas Atheon doesn't have that paracausal influence as you mentioned.
for those who dont know yet, establish titels is a scam. they changed their narrative from "call yourself legally lord" to "it's a fun joke present" after it got out.
I know this is strictly raid bosses, but IMO Savathun > Rhulk. Both in real life and in fiction, we’ve seen countless examples of students/subordinates overtaking masters. The fact that Rhulk created the Hive and carried out the Witness’ plan doesn’t necessarily mean that he is forever and always more powerful. She may not have raw power in the same sense as Rhulk, but she outsmarted him and trapped him in his pyramid. I’m not even sure she’s dead with Immaru still out there. That gives her an added edge over Oryx, which is that even when killed in their Throne World, she may not be dead for good. Rhulk has no ghost, and barring some future power bestowed upon him by the Witness, he’s dead for good. The same cannot be said for Savathun.
Even though Val Ca'uor is F tier, his design to me is S tier. I love the very bulky and heavy armor he is wearing that is both reminiscent of W40k Space Marines and also being very roman-isque, the cabal magma launcher he has and the huge magmapack. since the first time I did Spire of Stars I have always wished for a titan armor set that is based on him. also even lore wise, whilst he is nothing but a Val, I always loved the fact that he took command of the remnants of the red legion fleet and mounted a raid on the Leviathan before even being promoted to a Valus.
Massive cabal are just so badass to me. More than Oryx or Riven. I love seeing these absolute units covered in impenetrable armor be nigh-impossible to kill.
Important thing to keep in mind regarding the lore of House Light: they, like us, seem to have less reverence and dependence on the Traveler. Do they still respect it, as “the Great Machine”? Yes. But they’re faithful saying is: “the Light provides”. Just as the Guardians status que has changed, Mithraks created a new House that follows a new set of rules, built on a foundation of pacifism, compassion, and a religious relationship to the Light itself, not directly the Travaler. As for us Guardians, the definition of our mission has changed: protecting humanity, but now we are Guardians of Sol itself, and our allies of the Coalition. Our faith in the Traveler has waned to disappearing, as even Zavala seems to have accepted the grey outlook we and those of the Dark Vanguard have adopted. We are no longer defenders of the Traveler, but of the Light, like House Light, humanity, Sol, and our allies. Just an interesting parallel. Symbolically, the Light represents, rebirth, hope, but blindness to reality’s and morality’s objective truths. While the Darkness represents memory, holding onto emotions, survival of the fittest and your will being connected through that consciences of those that share you’re ideals of the Final Shape. Finding balance between, as some Guardians have may symbolize the true grey outlook of real clarity. Instead of the bias of either ideology, perhaps symmetry of both can help us for clarity. Characters like Mara, and the Dark Vanguard came to this revelation long before us it seems.
Love the video but I'm pretty sure the sponser, Established Titles is a scam. You don't actually get a real title and there's no evidence they actually plant trees.
(a bit late a know) To be fair the Calus ranking feels pretty fair since we aren't technically fighting Calus in that raid, yes his psions are really fighting us but we are just fighting the robot as the boss and not himself. Says a lot about his potential full strength if the robot is wielding the true power of Calus in some fashion though.
Hey Byf, just figured I'd let you know that established titles has been confirmed a scam and their plaque is just a gag, you end up not owning a plot of land, and you are not actually a lord/lady. There was a pretty big video that dropped showing the legality of it all.
I'm disappointed that Savathun doesn't have a raid of her own. Maybe later, in S19 her ghost Immaru will revive her & she will be a raid boss as well as taking Immaru out for good. Would be a nice conclusion to our year long battle with the Lucent Hive, & moving onto some Shadow Cabal next 🥳
Consider we already know we'll be getting a dungeon next season she'd at most be that. Tho personally I suspect she herself have played her part as a active hostile and when she returns she'll play a diffrent kind of role in the narrative.
@@Awoken_Remmuz Yeah I have a feeling that Immaru might have to shallow his pride and ask us for help. As we might not be the only ones hunting for him. As long as he lives, Savathun can come back. Meaning that Xivu Arath is most likely after Immaru to complete the task the Witness asked of her after Season of Arrivals.
Its more likely that savathun may not become a raid because of her motives. Her goal is to protect the traveller from the witness and that aligns with our goals as well, we're trying to protect the last city and the traveller. The moment we lose the traveller is the moment our light is gone and we become defenseless. So its more likely savathun would become an ally rather than an enemy because it doesn't make sense for her to still fight us, hell to be fair we technically forced her hand since we didn't realise her motives. She's not evil as most people think, her actions are actually pretty noble, she wanted to put the traveller in her throne world to keep it safe and she even trapped rkulk's ship inside preventing him from attacking earth. Not only that, she kept her promise to free osiris, she never killed him, merely she used him so she could gain knowledge on the light. She doesn't care about humanity, she only cares about the traveller but her actions are the reason humanity is even alive to begin with. So if she does come back, one things for sure, she'll do everything in her power to protect the traveller and she is smart so she'll make the right choices in mind as well, if she doesn't align with us then it disregards everything we've known about her so far. She's a master of deception and manipulation but again, she's not evil.
@HorrorPleb you've been manipulated by the manipulator. Savathun is evil and selfish. The only reason she's helping the traveler now is that she realized rebirth was the ticket to getting out of her pact with the worms. It's why she took an interest in Nokris and his necromancy and accepted him into her group. She didn't suddenly have a change of heart. Although, after we showed her the lies of the worms, she may genuinely side with us on her next rez
If this tier list is solely based on the raids lores then this is probably the most accurate Destiny 2 tier list that I’ve come across on UA-cam to date. If it was based on raid design, encounters, loot, and so on, then I would switch some of these around. S, E, and F tiers are pretty solid though.
Lore Aside, Rhulk's fight is something I hope Bungie takes and runs with it in future raids and dungeons. That fact that Rhulk talks and has lines during the fight, taunts us during the fight added such a nice touch made it that much more satisfying to finish him off
Plus, Rhulk being a boss that actively tries to kill you during damage phase is great.
@@titosfilippotis7039 his sass is unmatched and I love it
Rhulk is why Vow is my favorite raid. He is actively partaking in the fight, unlike other raid bosses.
You can feel him going from "Ima take y'all casually" to "I will annihilate you and everything you hold dear" when the DPS phase starts.
100% this. Man felt like a totally different kind of fight. Glad that they built an epic character with such an epic encounter.
Last wish does something similar with Riven. I’m pretty sure she has lines while doing her legit.
“We do not know the true body count of the taken king”
Damn Oryx really is a freak ain’t he
As a guardian of D2 I can ensure you I’m in his body count fr fr
@@DieLoreleiValkyr how was it?
@@officedispatch2146 unpleasant, he likes to go rounds
Bro be taking more than aliens 💀
Transgodkings can GET IT
What I love about the eliksni bosses is that they are all way out of their league when we consider the power scale, but still put on a good fight by just having absolutely insane ideas and contraptions.
The Eliksni used to be much more powerful when they all had the power of the light, Hence why they are called the Fallen now.
@@razatiger22 The Eliksni never had the light. The Traveler bestowed the Eliksni with technological advances, terraforming and such, but they never had the Light.
@@razatiger22they never had the light, they are called fallen because they used to be a race of nobles but are now reduced to space pirates
I love that the Fallen really do just say "Oh? God killers? Check this silly machine dumbass" and it works
I think the devil splicers could have become much more powerful if left unchecked, given they had never mastered siva by the time we took them out.
I think the strongest (ex?)eliksni we fight in D2 is the caretaker, funny enough. It's still got docked arm stumps, probably making it the most powerful dreg in destiny.
I'd say Rhulk is S+ lol.
Knowing everything about Rhulk makes his defeat at our hands so satisfying. Especially when he goes from composed wielder of Darkness to a frenzied brawler when he realizes he's about to die. His arrogance (Admittedly, rightfully earned) was his undoing, and I suspect the Witness saw it coming.
Yeah and he's easy af with not much mechqnkcs a raid boss needs to live up to his lore.
I love how since we entered the pyramid, he could have umbral suffocated everyone. But his wheel barrow sized balls were his undoing.
Just imagine how the Witness reacted: *sees his best Rook died, closes curtain. Goes to chess board and flicks piece resembling Rulk onto the floor*. They may not even care about any of its pawns. They probably don’t even consider Savathun or Mara players. Only the Traveler seems to be its adversary sitting across the board, and I feel they have gotten jaded of the Traveler continuously throwing the board in frustration.
Well we took advantage of his inflated ego. And that was just the thing we needed to beat him. And this is just one Disicple. Imagine fighting even more. We need multiple fireteams in tandem to take them on.
Well Rhulk was already on the Witness' shitlist for a couple of failures. He was considered to be a disappointment to the Witness when we find him, put on Disciple recruitment duty rather than in the field. So I'd say he's hardly the Witness' best stock.
This is the only Destiny tier list that I respect.
You can say that again.
Yes 🍷🗿
Canon power level dictated via lore is always superior to personal opinion or community opinion...
Well that and uhmm... Byf... xD
@@SnyperMK2000JclL Yep, and Byf indeed. 🤣
I feel like Oryx gotta go down to A cause he not even touching Rhulk who orchestrated the creation of oryx entire race
Fun fact:At the battle of Mare Ebreum, Crota cracked the surface of the moon everytime he swung his sword.
ah, i always wondered why the moon was so fractured. i thought the alien races had mining operations there or something.
@@tabbytabster could also be because of the Lunar Pyramid crashing there as well
Also fun fact he once got thrown into a vex gate by oryx
@@Al-cf9qi that was just a “time out and think about what you’ve done” move by dear ol’ dad
@@Al-cf9qi omfg this lore is so interesting
I always saw Taniks as being similar to General Grievous from Star Wars. He’s a cyborg who doesn’t have any special powers but he still manages to go head-to-head with beings that are much more powerful than him and win anyway
Thank you! I see I’m not the only one who likes Star Wars!
Taniks and Val Ca'uor get a Rank S in respect for their lead cahonays
@@jampshop2010 I can promise you you're not the only one who likes star wars
Ahem
One of my favorite tropes is a villain who manages to hit way above his weight class, not because hes crazy skilled or ultra powerful, but just because hes ballsy enough to try.
Calus is hard to rate. One of his automatons was a raid boss. In the lore from the derelict Glycon, he controls at least 4 automatons at once. By Season of the Haunted, he seems to be remotely inhabiting the Leviathan which contains an army of the things.
Callus is the strongest RAID boss
@@reggielacey2235 nah
@@oryxthetakenking8275 aren't you supposed to be a scout rifle
@@redautobotsoldier3812 which means I'm immortal even when I get dethroned, cuz I've lived on in other forms. What's Calus got on that?! Nothing. He hides from death behind his army of robots, what a wimp. He'll never be the Final Shape in this universe, he doesn't deserve it.
@@xvx_k1r1t0_xvxkillme7 and I've now outlived Rhulk, and come Lightfall I'll outlive Calus, since I'm alive in Touch of Malice whilst Rhulk isn't and Calus will probably be killed.
The fact that rhulk was "playing the part" during his fight by not instantly killing or worse doing horrible, otherworldly things to our guardians just because he can just shows that he in fact is extremely powerful.
Oyrx implied it himself with kingsfall. If you aren't fighting for your life, you aren't fighting at full potential and it shows with Rhulks last stand. He sees you as worthy. He sees you as something he needs to fight for his life in order to survive.
If he fought like that at the beginning we wouldn't even gotten close to him before he would have just ate the guardians light.
Rhulk should be feared just from the fact that he would have saw oryx as a mere child to him
The thing is, Rhulk WAS defeated because of his ego. His full potential was certainly much higher, but in the end, it was hindered by his own ego. It's like a warehouse full of wet gunpowder: it has the potential to wipe out the entire city, but the moisture held it back.
Where in the lore is this stated? I have heard tons of people say that the only reason the guardians killed hulk was because he underestimated them but I haven’t been able to find the quote. Do you mind sharing?
@@neosharkey7401 ^^
@@neosharkey7401
The raid fight itself shows it, with his posturing and change of character in his second phase
@@neosharkey7401 he fights us with his hands behind his back and taunts us its show not tell in this fight
I think the easiest way to show how Rhulk is a power level above Oryx is pointing out Rhulk is single handedly responsible for the entire context of reality Oryx is aware of, and it was something Rhulk thought was a boring job to do.
i agree. Oryx is probably the most powerful non disciple being in the universe other than like the traveler
@@SirSeed and the player who at this point might just be the most powerful non primordial force of the universe charecter
Yeah I wish the game would recognize this more, like “holy shit this guy has killed every major player in the universe over the course of less than a decade”, but that never gets brought up in game
That’s like saying a son will always be weaker than his father because his father is why he exists
@@psythen4562 Most kids who fight their dads lose. But that is mostly because the dad has everything to lose in the fights, so he isn't gonna hold back.
I would personally like too see all raid bosses. I’m not a UA-camr so I don’t know the logistics or anything but it would be cool if they were ranked on this same tier list. Obviously most of them would be lower tiers but it would still be cool too see every raid boss ever on this list. I know that would be a massive undertaking since many bosses have little lore to them and the length of the video would likely be twice the size of this one. But I know myself and some others would appreciate it
I'll see about more of these given that you've all seemed to enjoy this one. A big uptick in comments on this video compared to most so I'll see about more of these when things are dry content wise.
@@MynameisByf please do the raid bosses before the final bosses. I'm curious to know how the war priest stands up to the Templar or even the gorgons
I really want the darkness’ “Resonance” to be the last subclass we unlock. It would be so cool to command the same power that caused the collapse of humanity all those centuries ago.
Ah yes, the red subclass
The oscillating soundwave effects that resonance uses is cool as shit and we need more of it.
Hell yes
Same, stasis and strand aren’t enough! Though strand is pretty cool.
I came to the conclusion that had to be the final subclass, it wouldn't make any sense for something else since we've already seen Resonance in action
As a fan of The Black Garden I'm very happy about where you put The Sanctified Mind and why you put it there.
As a not as big fan of The Black Garden and Garden of Salvation, I also agree
@@deathwishunicorn2895 GoS is an awesome raid. It’s just the final boss fight is a bit convoluted.
@@thatoneguy2136 I'd argue its pretty easy, just kinda annoying due to bugs of it
Garden of Salvation is my favorite raid unironically.
I think u forgot to mention that Ahamkara can live after death through their bones so Riven is powerful in that aspect as well.
I feel like powers such as the Vault of Glass and Siva almost need to be reclassified as “hyper-causal,” meaning they’re powerful enough to overcome even paracausal magics.
No. Guardians wield paracausal power, and Ghosts are AI that channel the Light, but they are still very much affected by physical phenomena. This would include the likes of SIVA, and extend to the ontological weaponry of the Vault of Glass, with the Vault representing the pinnacle of what causal physics can achieve within the Vex domains.
On the other hand, all it took was Kabr infusing the Aegis, a construct he made with Vex technology, with his own Light to create a relic that could break the Vex's power within the Vault, and shield Guardians from the Vault's power.
Being able to kill a Guardian shouldn't warrant a made-up "hyper-causal" classification or the like; each race has been shown to permanently kill Guardians and their Ghosts without such advanced technology. The Hive are simply the ones that operated on the closest level due to their magic, while the others have utilized massive amounts of firepower to attain the result of killing Ghosts and permanently killing Guardians. We might have paracausal power, but we never were invincible.
@@Catalyst375 The tone I’m reading this with is interesting. Like you’re upset about my original comment. It’s also amusing that you call my word made up, for the obvious reason…. I simply thought it’s worth mentioning that sometimes we encounter beings or weapons of immense power that can eclipse the Light despite not being paracausal. If memory serves, Byf was taking off points in this video for being “just causal,” despite having immense power we barely defeated. As for my idea, Siva is hyper-causal because it can completely negate paracausal forces through sheer, overwhelming causality, in a way no mere bullet could. At least, that was my understanding regarding Sundance. I’m not sure if we still keep to that standard for what can kill a Ghost, given we pop them like bubbles these days. But we can go back and forth on that all day.
@@Catalyst375 in the case of the vex, you don’t even need to make up a word. They’re not causal, they’re acasual.
... Guardians are paracausal glass canons they can be killed with sufficient fire power including their ghosts🤷🏾♂️....and in combat they are not very impressive all you have to do is watch the Savala destiny 2 launch cinematic he gets bodied by fodder twice and had to be revived....
@@xteel1013 Nah, Ghosts need paraclausal force to be killed
I think at minimum Aetheon is A tier. The fact that he can erase people from existence and jump through time is what makes the Vex so insane. In the lore, the Vex pretty much crush every other race outside of the Hive.
The vex crush even the hive aswell, in the flower game they dominated every single time the simulation was ran. The power to erase entire races from existence is something that’s hard for even oryx to do.
I would disagree solely due to the fact Atheon only has the time powers inside the VOG. Anywhere outside he would get destroyed easily
Aksis is honestly my favorite raid boss but I absolutely agree with the rating. He's no pushover by any means but it really speaks to how the eliksni really have been crippled by power creep over the years.
We need a tier list of all the big bads, not only raids: Panoptes, Xol, Dul, Quria, Savathun, etc
Don’t forget Eramiskel!
panoptes, Xol, quria, A - B tier.
savathun S tier
Even the gorgons are op af
I think Ahamkara in general are hard to place on a power scale. Armies of them have been wiped out by a pair of guardians, but as Byf said Riven bamboozled Oryx, and even the Guardian lest we forget. On top of that, Ahamkara can't really die can they? They just sort of...change. I'm not entirely convinced that they couldn't just remake themselves in certain situations.
Riven bamboozling the Guardians is an easy achievement, they have been bamboozled so many times by almost everyone.
I'm in full agreement with Riven. Something that can dance around even the Winnower's ideology is scary. I imagine once the Witness and the Darkness are driven back this Wish Magic stuff will be able to flourish their wings. Maybe we can learn to harness it.
But weren't the ahamkara hunted to extinction with riven being the last one? Seems to me that Riven isnt all that powerful, but rather a very good tool for Savathun to use
@@MaxMustermann-si4kj In Season of the Lost, we saw that Mara kept a single Ahamkara egg in her chambers, so it's very likely that they will be a plot point again sometime
@@MaxMustermann-si4kj Patsonical took the words right out of my mouth but I'd like to add one thing, the Nine. Since the Ahamkara are tied so close to the Nine they both could lead to a fun story point later on after the Darkness saga is over. Someone made a great post about Albios, a lesser known character, and how his mysterious death could hint at a "Void Realm" being a real tangible place with the Nine and possibly the Ahamkara involved.
@@captaincaptain8961it’s the void fields!!!!!!! Let’s go get our friendly neighbor plague doggo.
@@MaxMustermann-si4kj the ONE thing limiting the Ahamkara is that they need the wishes of others to twist. They can in theory fullfill their own wishes, but if they do so they destroy themselves.
But once they have a wish to work with (and its easier than it seems seeing they may catch even unspoken wishes), their power is essentially limitless as they literally eat at reality until the wish comes true. Also note that the monkey paw effect is deliberate, as a bigger change that was asked for feeds the ahamkara further; however there apparently was at least one of their specie that just fullfilled wishes without twisting them.
After we finally encounter Xivu (hopefully as a fully realized disciple) we can get a lore power ranking of the three sister at their prime. That'll be a really interesting discussion.
Oryx, who took the powers of a Worm God and waged war with the Solar System because of lineage and Crota.
Savathun, who was given the light and stole the Traveler and was able to manipulate so many people during her time with us.
Xivu Arath, who now (currently) controls the forces of the Darkness under the Witness (possibly as a disciple) and is known as the War God of the Hive.
Legit, that would be a fun lore video to go around on, because all three of them (arguably and equally) have their own merit of danger. Fingers crossed bungie gives a heck of a go with Xivu between Lightfall and Final Shape!
@@TheMrMayo Hoping too
Did you just disrespect orxy? Orxy identities as a male.
@@Iamreallyhim oryx doesn't just identify as male but transitions into one fully with the powers of the worm God making him the taken king
@@Iamreallyhim actually he identifies as a scout rifle🙂
Maybe a tier list vid on all the Fallen/Eliksni kells? I’d be interested to see how they all rank up, I’d probably say they’d be ranked individually over them and their respective Houses though. Or maybe a tier list on all the Iron Lords and/or Warlods potentially?
That wouldn't per say be difficult.
S-Tier: Chelchis, Craask
A-Tier: Eramis, Mara Sov, Inaaks
B-Tier: Solkis, Virixas, Skolas, Misraaks
C-Tier: Draksis, Uldren Sov
D-Tier: Drifis, Unnamed Kell of Scar
E-Tier: Variks (No Eliksni but a select few were willing to side with him.)
F-Tier: The Unnamed Kells killed in lore long ago.
I rated them based on around multiple factors: Leadership, Abilities, House Size, Status amongst the Eliksni, and Lore. Chelchis was considered a living legend amongst the Eliksni as he was willing to throw his life and house against the Maw, supposedly to save the rest of his race. Craask is another S-Tier because he is an orchestrative mastermind, responsible for many important events in Eliksni history as well as being the only known Kell of House Kings, the highest House caste in Destiny lore.
The rest I wish not to go into too much detail, but if you could understand why I placed the characters where I did, that would be excellent.
@@aztumtheknightofwumbo7060y y is mara here
@@freshfufrostbolt962 She became Kell of Wolves after killing Virixas and defeating and imprisoning Skolas and his followers.
Excellent video idea! I'd love to see a tier list of the strongest Guardians, according to their power in the lore.
Amazing idea for sure.
It would be cool, but do we know many guardians in the lore? Like what their power level would be? I know we know Ikora and maybe shaxx and saint, but no other with enough creditable evidence come to mind
Us then somewhere on the ground floor of the tower begins the strongest guardians.
What’s funny is the guardian is a basic guardian. The reason we are so powerful is because skill with the light and dark and knowledge that surpasses even the smartest warlocks.
@@Teastott That’s true. We’re no more greater in paracausal might than the Vanguard, however we just happen to dabble with light & darkness powers.
I'm saying this now, I would love to see you do a tier list for campaign and expansion bosses. I'm talking about the Heart of the Black Garden, Skolas, Ghaul, Uldren Sov, etc.
Gary!
Ghaul would be pretty strong, but I think that Ghaul < Eramis < Xol lorewise.
Finally. Some proper destiny content from the community.
This is a tier list
Recycled ideas are proper content now?
Destiny youtubers are really down bad if y’all think like that
I totally agree!
@@SKRRTCOBAIN00 bruh chill tf out. It’s a comment. Not my thesis on entertainment.
I always felt like the Vex were something that were made weaker to actually make it something that can be fought against. I feel like the capabilities that were given to them lore-wise would have made them utterly unstoppable in a technical sense. Like they have the opposite of plot armor, like a plot weakness. Or, even more terrifying, that they simply let guardians THINK that they were beatable to give false confidence. Maybe they choose to let the Light live to give opposition to the other forces of darkness, which they despise.
For anyone who wants to make the mistake of comparing Oryx to Rhulk remember that Oryx served the Worm gods and will devour him if he ever fails to deliver enough tribute. The Worm gods serve Rhulk. Rhulk served The Witness. It's a completely different scale of power. It's basically middle management compared to a C-suite executive.
It's also why I rank Savathun above Oryx in terms of power. She's still no match for Rhulk but she's powerful enough to trap him and I don't think you can trap a Disciple of the Witness with just trickery alone. You need to be close enough in power to trap him with trickery or he'll just break through it with power alone.
@@urazz7739 She trapped Rhulk with the light though. We could've trapped Rhulk with the light too, but unlike Savathun, we didn't spend countless eons researching the light. Even Osiris is ignorant compared to the swathe of knowledge Savathun has on the Traveler and the Light.
@@hoked2194 She did it with the wellspring, that used the light in abundance in her throne world to reflect the upended on Rhulk own ship and seal it.
To be fair oryx surpassed the worm gods an killed one of them but rhulk literally treats the worms as glorified pets
These worm gods ? What is their origin
This is seriously the only ad I didn't skip. Props to you for taking on an honorable cause for your promotion.
Can't wait to see where Nezerac ranks on here
Something I can't help but wonder about are the implications that the Witness favor Nezarec more than Rhulk despite the Latter's powers and feat. The witness had been known to be willing to save a life in exchange for more lives to be ended. Rhulk is proof of that. Now take into consideration everything that happened in the Season of the Haunted. Despite Calus being at the core of it, the main problem at that time are the Nightmares formed through the "defense mechanism" of the Lunar Pyramid. We haven't even seen the extent of what can Nezarec and its Pyramid can do. Nezarec is even referred to as an "End" and seem to possess the same transcendence to death that Ahamkaras posses. With Delicate Tomb implying Nezarec's consciousness is within the relics similar to how Ahamkaras are with their bones.
All this lore about Nezarec possibly returning and the Witness trying to make Calus fuse with the Lunar Pyramid, Nezarec's Pyramid. Makes me wonder if the Witness' plan is to use Calus as some sort of vessel for Nezarec's return. The witness is known to use deception (like what it did to the Hive) maybe, it didn't tell Calus the full truth. Calus will indeed be the last, but not as "Calus" he will be "Nezarec".
Tanniks' sheer will is paracausal! He defies death every chance he gets 🤣🤣
Honestly kind of want to see that video ranking power for all the non-final encounter bosses. Yeah, it's fun to talk about the big boys, but I think there's an equally interesting debate about the weaker bosses specifically because they aren't so far above everything else, and in a hypothetical battle royale, there's a lot more ways things could play out.
Deathsinger has a lot of power, but is too much of a glass cannon to get anywhere, especially when you have other hive involved who will know to target them before the song finishes.
The Psionic War Beasts from the Leviathan Pleasure Gardens could be a real sleeper pick, considering how little we know about psionic powers. They could potentially hard counter paracausal bosses like the Techeuns or Daughters of Oryx by overwhelming their minds, preventing them from using their abilities. Maybe. Again, very unclear how psionic powers actually work.
Warpriest is pretty tough, but dies when he gets distracted dealing with the Gatekeepers from VoG, and doesn't notice the the flaming servitor from the sparrow section of Scourge of the Past barreling towards him at top speed.
Golgoroth and Morgeth are basically the same dude. Golgoroth tries to kill Morgeth, but he looks into his face and they share a moment of understanding. Golgoroth cannot bear to kill the only other one who knows what it's like being the mediocre mid-boss of the raid. The Caretaker from Vow looks on from the distance. He knows this pain all too well, and wants to go hang out with them, but two of Atraks-1's replications keep stunning him when he tries to do anything.
In a particularly shocking upset, the past, present, and future Gatekeepers from VoG all die to the WotM Siege Engine.
Gahlran's Illusions attempt to kill the harpy from GoS, but keep getting into arguments about messing up the tethers. All three, and the harpy, are also eventually killed by the Siege Engine, which at this point has been commandeered by non-abomination Taniks, who was only allowed in on a technicality of having a different title during DSC Descent, and thus not being the same boss as he is in the final encounter.
Vosik is eliminated after he accidentally gets himself locked in the Last Wish Vault.
Atraks-1 survives to at least the final few by hanging out in the leviathan Gauntlet while her replications do all the work.
This made me chuckle, hahaha. You make many good points.
This reads like an Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny (pun of course intended) and i’m here for it being made into a real thing
This was a great read and many great points were made, thank you!
this sounds like it would be a good terminalmontage video, like the pokemon battle royale one
I agree, Crota got trashed by Quria.
Atheon will always have a special place because he was the first. 14yo me had never learned a story like its before. A being piloted by radiolaria, robot but not microorganisms, that controls timelines and acts not out of intention, but instinct. We're so used to intelligent beings having the power but Atheon, and the rest of the Vex, are more animal than anything else.
Because of this, the Vault of Glass is genuinely TERRIFYING
I agree with Riven in S tier. In Truth to Power, there is a description of the ahamkara’s power, relating it to the darkness and the anthem anathema, converting desire to reality. In the hidden dossier it even confirms this is a good description. The ahamkara literally evolved to take advantage of the latent dark paracausal principles of the universe. Crazy.
At points like this it's a reminder that having just one pyramid ship to call his own was a major feat by itself and to face the witness with potentially hundreds or thousands of them or perhaps even more is insane
Additionally, we have to consider the fact that in most of the raids, we are fighting the bosses on their own turf, or that there are extenuating circumstances that are making the boss more of a threat than of we were fighting them on more even ground (what made Insurrection Prime such a threat was that it was smack dab in the middle of the Last City).
I'd love to see a tier list ranking the power of different guardians we've seen and heard of from the lore. People like Saint-14 and Osiris were once only names back in Destiny 1, but are now characters we've seen and had extensive lore on in Destiny 2. I'd love to see a comparison with them, Eris, the vanguard, Shaxx, and maybe people like Eris' fireteam who were defeated by Crota or Praedith.
Loved the video, can't wait to see more!
I normally just listen to byf’s videos while I work, but this time for some reason i got my phone out and saw the “top tier use of super” part 😂😂 LOVE IT!!!
Rhulk is a case of “what have you done for me lately.” Overtime I think Oryx outclasses every other disciple.
You should do a ranking of all major bosses throughout campaigns, dungeons, and raids. It would be really interesting. Probably just add to this list or something
I would love to see a tier list of famous guardians in lore along with the vanguard and other known guardians.
Taniks has been stabbed by us at least 4, the 3 times Byf mentioned, and when he was in a nightmare form.
Honestly, and I know this is a HUGE ask, I'd love to see a ranking of the in-game stories. Very interested in hearing your thoughts and reasoning of everything from D1 Vanilla to Season of Plunder.
Idk if anyone mentioned it but on destinypedia in the Trivia tab for insurrection prime it say that during the Livestream Raid Along the devs said Insurrection prime's wipe mechanic is big enough to destroy the entire last city.
Now idk about you but that seems like a pretty important point to take into account
love this. You should do more tier list with lore in mind of course. Because it really shows the feats of Guardian's and how strong Guardian's truly are to people. How they defeated these enemies of humanity/ Sol system and more. People seriously downplay these guys. All in All Great video as always Byf.
I’d love to see other bosses ranked based on this criteria. Strike bosses, dungeon bosses, or even lesser raid bosses. You could even do a list of deceased guardians; that might be interesting.
Bungie should definitely add the Cerberus Vae III strike back into the game, all because of the fact that whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold
Props to Val Ca’uor, he was weak and low ranked but he put up one hell of a fight. Man was fighting for his race.
would be nice to see a tier list of the power of individual guardians by lore, but it's understandably difficult to do, given that there are not many descriptions or displays of their prowess, only their fame
I definitely agree about Riven. Given that every being has desires and her powers are likely fueled by desires, she could have been used as an immensely destructive weapon had we not put her down.
Regarding Atheon, lore and the description of the void and stasis in the game’s tabs suggest that Stasis and the Void can be used to manipulate time and space. Elizabeth, at one point in the dark future, used a dusk field grenade to suspend her bed and other items in frozen time when Ana sought her out to defeat Eris and Savathun. It also makes sense that Ikora is Warlock Vanguard, as a master of the Void, she can shift through dimensions, affect gravity, and distort space and time. Causing destruction across the battlefield, or subvert the laws of physics and time.
Legitimately the only in-video ad I have ever listened to
I always interpreted the fight with Val Ca'uor to be less fighting a random low ranked Val and more like the last collective strength of the Red Legion itself. The Val was outfitted with the best gear and supported by the remaining most powerful ships of the Legion's fleet, although that clearly still wasnt enough
We love having you bro, you been helping me with sleep problems ❤
Enjoy your break big man, you deserve it!
23:47 okay, I'm not gonna argue with you on this one. Insurrection Prime is a straight up Metal Gear, and I love it!!
Especially since you decided to randomly throw in Skolas I definitely think this vid should have been a Campaign Big Bad's + Raid Bosses ranking. Sometimes they overlap anyways(Oryx was the main enemy in the main campaign for Taken King) and Ghaul, Eramis , Savathun and Fikrul all pose/posed as big or bigger threats than a lot on this list.
A raid encounter-boss or strike boss tier list would be fun. Love the content, keep up the good work!
Great video! Would absolutely love more tier lists or power scaling in the Destiny universe. Maybe one for dungeon or even strike bosses?😂
When Byf started talking about Oryx saying "he has put 100 of thousands...", I thought he was going to say "hours grinding for the darkness." cause like he did in a way
Wait if I remember correctly isn't there a triumph for beating dsc and it gives you some sort of helmet which you can place in the house next to the exo stranger? I've always assumed that the helmet came from taniks
That’s not a helmet so much as Taniks’s actual head. He’s so robotic he barely has any biological parts.
@@acgearsandarms1343 ah I wasn't sure if that was taniks head or not. Thank you for the clarification!
I used to watch Byf talk about the sea monsters on Titan, can’t believe he’s still uploading even before and after
Lightfall dropped.
Though it is true Rhulk posseses the most raw strength of all raid bosses, raw strength is not always enough to win as proven by his defeat at our hands. He underestimated his opponents leaving himself wideopen for unexpected attacks. If he was to go against Riven, she could easily turn all his paracausal strength against him after he wished to defeat her. With self-righteous state of mind that Rhulk he's left vulnerable to cleverness of his enemies
i dont know if that would be necessarily the case for why riven could potentially beat him. it takes a presupposition that he underestimates everything equally and for the same reason, to believe that someone like riven would win through similar means. i personally think that part of his underestimation of the guardians was due to a bigotry against the light, less so that he thought he was simply too powerful. i draw this conclusion from two points: the time he captured a ghost for study, and his fanaticism of the Witness. to point one, it seems to suggest that he lacks knowledge of the light and what it can do, which is also shown by the effectiveness of the light curse against his pyramid ship, thus his goal was experimentation, until the traveler detonated the ghost. to the second point, he sets the Witness far above everything else in his mind, to Rhulk, the Witness is the most powerful and by extension the powers he has obtained through him would be unmatched. to further why i dont think Rhulk would approach this fight the same way, it would be rather safe to assume Rhulk has encountered ahamkara before, and if the theory that the wyrm gods are ahamkara is be believed, then he even enslaved some. i come to this conclusion through probability, Rhulk predates the hive, which are said to be billions of years old, thus he has a fair estimate of billions of years, and in that time due to his paracausal "weight", i think ahamkara would seek him out, and if not id imagine that Rhulk would have at the very least heard about them and thought to use them in bringing about the final shape. also lets not forget that Rhulk made the hive, so it would stand to reason he was observing around the time Xivu "allegedly" encountered them in the books of sorrow
He did canonically lose to Savathun... so probably below Oryx at the very least.
@@isaiahmazurkiewicz8906 he did get tricked by Savathun and heavily underestimated a fireteam of guardians, meaning he is not smart enough to resist Riven's wish magic like Mara or Savathun could. If these two were to encounter, Riven would have enough strength to bring the whole universe to its knees as it was once almost done. Im not sure it was Riven, but Ikora once accidentally made a wish that almost brought an end to the existence itself, luckly Mara prevented that outcome. So I have no doubts Riven can defeat Rhulk if she wanted to
@@arsarma1808 He didn't though. Rhulk was imprisoned on the TW by the Witness as punishment fot his arrogance. He couldn't really do much.
@@Goro4armsneck The Witness sent Rhulk to "babysit" Savathun as a punishment. Then Savathun trapped him
Doing a Video on the Strike Bosses power levels, and then Dungeon Bosses could be fun.
Btw Byf, Established titles has been confirmed to be a scam. They dont actually plant trees, and there is no such thing as owning 1-foot land in Scotland.
That was one if if not the coolest product placement I ever saw
Riven is absolutely S their for sure. I always was in awe of her and Oryx just by their sheer size and girth
Who’s here after salvation’s edge?
Not me 😢
Lmao not in a thousand years, it's a miracle I found people to clear the first week of pantheon with.
I would ADORE a video about the in-between raid bosses, cause some of them are fricken awesome! (and perhaps maybe a raid boss soundtrack tierlist?)
Calus actually does have psychic power of his own that he obtained by drinking Nessus wine, and it is far beyond that of a piston
Psion*
Man, the first chords of *Chronologies* still give me chills.
Honestly. I think psionic power is stronger than you give it props for. We used it in season of the risen in order to capture hive guardians.
Easy answer for me. I would love a tier list of the story/lore of every destiny release, seasons included. Since it’s contents haven’t been touched in a long time, I’d love to see how the story and lore of a season like SOT Drifter line up to other seasons. Obviously that season had a lackluster gameplay loop, but it was the first comprehensive info we got into what the Nine are and the Ecdysis lore book about Orin trumps every other Destiny 2 lore book for me. Compared to season everyone (myself included) love, I think this season’s lore could surprise, and I’d love to see how you think every Destiny release’s stories weight up against each other
Bro is using anything but good weapons for any kind of dps phase 💀 a bow for riven, sweet business for calus outbreak for ghalran
I think you forget how good outbreak was for damaging ghalran was considering you had to transition to his hands mid fight.
Sweet Buisness was one of he better DPS weapons in year 1 when you ran out of heavy, since there were no special weapons.
Great list! Would love to see this applied to other things like named Guardians or story bosses
I hope bungie will eventually actually start treating the vex as a massive threat again as for a while it’s always them being cucked by almost every faction . It almost feels like every since destiny 2 they made them way too weak while making the other factions power bullshit ridiculous like the fact that the broken red legion with three stupid ass Psions can just casually hijack there systems and they can’t do fuck all about it.
The vex are terrifying in their own way, though; unlike the fallen, cabal, and maybe even hive, there will never be an alliance with the vex. It will always be vex vs everything else, including the witness/darkness
The Vex are so tricky to integrate into the story because they use time travel, which is the easiest way to remove any stakes in a story. They're either pathetically weak or stronger than the Witness, and it's hard to get an in-between.
Nah they cant adapt that good. They have splintered into factions and they have wars with one another. Their code is corrupted and this results to computing errors.
I'd love to see another tier list ranking the other raid bosses, like the Warpriest, the Consecrated Mind, the Caretaker, etc. Obviously nowhere near as powerful as the raid bosses in this video, but I love learning about the lore in a simple tierlist like these, and I think you'll gain a lot of followers by doing these.
I have a feeling that if Oryx ever did find out about the existence of Rhulk, he probably would be fucking livid. Because he truly believed that he was the closest connection to the darkness and yet Rhulk is the first disciple of the Witness and literally made the Hive for shits and giggles to see if they could actually be of use for the goals of reaching the Final Shape. Knowing him he would probably rant a bit in a book of sorrow verse if he had learned of his existence, and then probably go after weaker disciples of the Witness and then finally face Rhulk to try to prove that only he should deserve to be that close to darkness. The only question though is whether the Witness or Rhulk would directly intervene if they see that their disciples are dying one by one from their experiment that is the hive?
Rhulk maby i dont get the vibe that the winese would if a being would die they deserve to die and all that i mean did he help rhulk when we killed him
@@gamerskingdom4897 true, it would quite interesting to see a scenario like this though
the witness would probably encourage Oryx to do that. hes all for final shape stuff.
Rhulk as arrogant he is, will probably shrug it off as a meme. Until its to late. Although that fight will be legendary.
Oryx at full power is something you have to consider super dangerous
As someone who tries to keep up on the lore as much as possible, I completely agreed with the ranking you did. I'm a HUGE Hive fan, and even with that, I still knew Rhulk would rank where he did. Despite Savathun trapping him in her throneworld, it was easy to see it was hard for her to keep him there. I have to wonder if she actually DID manage to keep the Traveler inside her throneworld, could that have helped her subjugate the subjugator?
I was happy to see Sanctified Mind ahead of Atheon. I've had debates about this with clanmates and other people who think "Atheon could beat Sanctified Mind". If there ever was a fight between those 2, I'd bet on Sanctified Mind. Yes, Atheon's Oracles *could* mark Sancti, but I think he could still beat Atheon due to the darkness power advantage, whereas Atheon doesn't have that paracausal influence as you mentioned.
I always wondered if like the sol divisive, a vex subtype would be like "damn the guardian kills everything....maybe we should try to not fight them?"
Yeah that would actually make sense
Taniks gonna get some Cloudstrider tech in Lightfall I bet
for those who dont know yet, establish titels is a scam. they changed their narrative from "call yourself legally lord" to "it's a fun joke present" after it got out.
This is perhaps one of your best works in regards to Destiny 2
I know this is strictly raid bosses, but IMO Savathun > Rhulk. Both in real life and in fiction, we’ve seen countless examples of students/subordinates overtaking masters. The fact that Rhulk created the Hive and carried out the Witness’ plan doesn’t necessarily mean that he is forever and always more powerful. She may not have raw power in the same sense as Rhulk, but she outsmarted him and trapped him in his pyramid. I’m not even sure she’s dead with Immaru still out there. That gives her an added edge over Oryx, which is that even when killed in their Throne World, she may not be dead for good. Rhulk has no ghost, and barring some future power bestowed upon him by the Witness, he’s dead for good. The same cannot be said for Savathun.
you should do a tier list of the campaign bosses next
Even though Val Ca'uor is F tier, his design to me is S tier. I love the very bulky and heavy armor he is wearing that is both reminiscent of W40k Space Marines and also being very roman-isque, the cabal magma launcher he has and the huge magmapack. since the first time I did Spire of Stars I have always wished for a titan armor set that is based on him. also even lore wise, whilst he is nothing but a Val, I always loved the fact that he took command of the remnants of the red legion fleet and mounted a raid on the Leviathan before even being promoted to a Valus.
Massive cabal are just so badass to me. More than Oryx or Riven.
I love seeing these absolute units covered in impenetrable armor be nigh-impossible to kill.
I would love to see a teir list of secondary bosses. If not just to learn a little more about them from you.
Important thing to keep in mind regarding the lore of House Light: they, like us, seem to have less reverence and dependence on the Traveler. Do they still respect it, as “the Great Machine”? Yes. But they’re faithful saying is: “the Light provides”. Just as the Guardians status que has changed, Mithraks created a new House that follows a new set of rules, built on a foundation of pacifism, compassion, and a religious relationship to the Light itself, not directly the Travaler. As for us Guardians, the definition of our mission has changed: protecting humanity, but now we are Guardians of Sol itself, and our allies of the Coalition. Our faith in the Traveler has waned to disappearing, as even Zavala seems to have accepted the grey outlook we and those of the Dark Vanguard have adopted. We are no longer defenders of the Traveler, but of the Light, like House Light, humanity, Sol, and our allies. Just an interesting parallel. Symbolically, the Light represents, rebirth, hope, but blindness to reality’s and morality’s objective truths. While the Darkness represents memory, holding onto emotions, survival of the fittest and your will being connected through that consciences of those that share you’re ideals of the Final Shape. Finding balance between, as some Guardians have may symbolize the true grey outlook of real clarity. Instead of the bias of either ideology, perhaps symmetry of both can help us for clarity. Characters like Mara, and the Dark Vanguard came to this revelation long before us it seems.
This was a really fun video, i think it would be interesting to do this not only for other raid bosses, but maybe also strike bosses as well
Love the video but I'm pretty sure the sponser, Established Titles is a scam. You don't actually get a real title and there's no evidence they actually plant trees.
(a bit late a know)
To be fair the Calus ranking feels pretty fair since we aren't technically fighting Calus in that raid, yes his psions are really fighting us but we are just fighting the robot as the boss and not himself. Says a lot about his potential full strength if the robot is wielding the true power of Calus in some fashion though.
Hey Byf, just figured I'd let you know that established titles has been confirmed a scam and their plaque is just a gag, you end up not owning a plot of land, and you are not actually a lord/lady. There was a pretty big video that dropped showing the legality of it all.
Argos the planetary core has the best theme change my mind
Warframe lore vids when? Nothing about Angels of the Zariman? Veilbreaker? Duviri?
Even a year ago and this is still the most valid and fair and balanced tier list I've ever known
All the D2 only players confused when he says when oryx killed mara but mara is still alive 😂
Oryx definitely feels like he should be worthy of the Disciple title. He basically was one in all but name.
I'm disappointed that Savathun doesn't have a raid of her own. Maybe later, in S19 her ghost Immaru will revive her & she will be a raid boss as well as taking Immaru out for good.
Would be a nice conclusion to our year long battle with the Lucent Hive, & moving onto some Shadow Cabal next 🥳
Consider we already know we'll be getting a dungeon next season she'd at most be that.
Tho personally I suspect she herself have played her part as a active hostile and when she returns she'll play a diffrent kind of role in the narrative.
@@Awoken_Remmuz Yeah I have a feeling that Immaru might have to shallow his pride and ask us for help. As we might not be the only ones hunting for him. As long as he lives, Savathun can come back. Meaning that Xivu Arath is most likely after Immaru to complete the task the Witness asked of her after Season of Arrivals.
@@Awoken_Remmuz No Savathun but we do got some yeehaw
Its more likely that savathun may not become a raid because of her motives.
Her goal is to protect the traveller from the witness and that aligns with our goals as well, we're trying to protect the last city and the traveller.
The moment we lose the traveller is the moment our light is gone and we become defenseless.
So its more likely savathun would become an ally rather than an enemy because it doesn't make sense for her to still fight us, hell to be fair we technically forced her hand since we didn't realise her motives.
She's not evil as most people think, her actions are actually pretty noble, she wanted to put the traveller in her throne world to keep it safe and she even trapped rkulk's ship inside preventing him from attacking earth.
Not only that, she kept her promise to free osiris, she never killed him, merely she used him so she could gain knowledge on the light.
She doesn't care about humanity, she only cares about the traveller but her actions are the reason humanity is even alive to begin with.
So if she does come back, one things for sure, she'll do everything in her power to protect the traveller and she is smart so she'll make the right choices in mind as well, if she doesn't align with us then it disregards everything we've known about her so far.
She's a master of deception and manipulation but again, she's not evil.
@HorrorPleb you've been manipulated by the manipulator. Savathun is evil and selfish. The only reason she's helping the traveler now is that she realized rebirth was the ticket to getting out of her pact with the worms. It's why she took an interest in Nokris and his necromancy and accepted him into her group. She didn't suddenly have a change of heart. Although, after we showed her the lies of the worms, she may genuinely side with us on her next rez
If this tier list is solely based on the raids lores then this is probably the most accurate Destiny 2 tier list that I’ve come across on UA-cam to date. If it was based on raid design, encounters, loot, and so on, then I would switch some of these around. S, E, and F tiers are pretty solid though.
Established titles doesn't actually make you a lord. Just an FYI for some folks