We moved from the brain-dead LMG mainline attack move of coh2 to the close range AR move order of rifles and pgrens in coh3. Somehow attack move was too complicated so we needed to dumb it down a little
@@jackobrien47 yeah this is totally different from the mindless Fallspios with nade launcher, Jaeger and Pgren boobs also seen isn’t it 🤡 At least a US player has the point that they don’t have another mainliner infantry choice. Same can’t be said about the brain-dead axis blobs 🥴
@AstonHodge I specifically called out pgren boobs as well. My point was that in coh2 it was attack move lmgs that were the issue. Now it's even simpler. With rifles and pgrens they literally just move order towards any threat and it dies.
@@jackobrien47 yep agree on this. The counter to this is a ‘set up time’ giving a 1-2 second wait to use LMGs. If elite infantry don’t need this it gives them more viability and then blobbing them costs more manpower too. They (Relic) CAN but REFUSE to add a blob debuff which is sad. It would honestly make sense if a blob had an incoming suppression debuff for 4 or more units together maybe an increase in received accuracy too of like 15%.
First and foremost, I think we need negative or "red" cover back in the game. That was pretty huge for preventing blobbing. Increased recieved accuracy and supression on roads and in open fields. I also think the LT shouldn't come out for free. It should be a built unit like it is after it's killed. The ASC buffs have been great. Rifles should have higher upkeep - like similar to Rangers, Paras, and SSF. They can still be cheaper but spamming out 7 should cripple your manpower income. I think that would also help balance manpower cheats. Bumping the fuel cost of advanced logistics could be good too. That would push back the window for getting the upgrade and reduce its impact just by giving it less time to be active. Some other thoughts I have are a bit more wild, but I think MSC should get a unit similar to the LT. Maybe a Humber-type unit in the form of a T17 Staghound. Give it similar abilities to the LT for vehicles. In the war, it had the same gun as the M8, but maybe it could run with just MGs until the Motor Pool is finished after which it can upgrade to unlock that gun with a munitions upgrade. Give it less armor/health than an M8 and more than the US HT (Which is made out of glass btw. That vehicle needs to be more survivable). Just a thought. My third idea which I've been thinking about for months now is to give the WSC an upgrade similar to BARs: a .50 cal upgrade to US MG teams. It can be a universal upgrade with a moderate fuel cost that could take the US MG from the weakest MG in the game to the strongest. Increased damage, supression, a wider arc, and better armor penetration (along with an an active AP rounds ability?). That would really help the viability of WSC. Finally, either reduce the CP cost of SSF call-in or decrease the manpower cost. They are great units once you can get them out, but they are a MASSIVE investment if you want to make them a big part of your army. By the time you have one or two squads out, they are really behind in the XP/vet race and you're 450-900mp sunk. It's too much. Just my thoughts as a Wher main.
Yeah red cover should be back, though it shouldn't increase recieved damage, only accuracy. Also, more weapons should have incremental accuracy (which increases accuracy for more additional targets near what you're shooting at)
@@MrMeist dude you can’t increase the manpower cost on a mainliner infantry unit. Are all the Axis mains that are all circle jerking each other off on this video aware it’s the ONLY mainliner infantry US get, commanders aside! 🤡
And no one mentions the effect on wher composition, it just make Pgrens mandatory to a remedy to charging bar rifles. When I use jagers I just get trampled by bars.
the best thing about this video is the incredible effort and editing you put into it. this was a labor of love. thank you for including me in the process.
Indian is not a problem because unlike USF - UKF is NOT an infantry faction (they have waaaaay more VALID armored options) while Wehr goes more infantry/bunker/team weapons focused (MP hungry) army composition when picking Luftwaffe. UKF simply never plays so MP heavy units to pick MP reduction trait. This is why MP reduction should be just discarded altogether. Also, I think that TTK play key role - it cost NOTHING to close in yolo style for USF, if TTK becomes shorter - rifles WILL need other units to close in while also remaining decent on medium and long - this means their versatility is not damaged but to be effective they need set up from other units. Kinda reverse from DAK where 1 unit (flak/guasta/Tiger etc set ups everything for the rest of the units) Giving viable alternative is great to fix over reliance on rifles. Alternative is not just some other mainline but also Thompsons for Paras (right now if map/lane is CQB - you never go airborne, also both vets and abilities beg for Thompsons).
Ain't no way this is like the same problem back then in Coh2 when they made the Osttruppen extremely good to the point that you can get away with just 7 Osttruppen and even beat the Brits in their own game when it comes to their cover combat mechanic.
Add back rear echelons and make them viable for say the first 5 minutes of the game. Allow them to do sandbags and barbed wire but not much else? Make rangers a call in unit. Or upgradeable from rear echelons. Might encourage a bit more wsc play? Then you might get straight to your doctrine mainline.
As someone who plays COH3 very very little (only played a few multiplayer games and a little of Campaign), but played a lot of COH 1, I remember when COH 1 first came out, people had the same complaints about rifleman squads. Even when after lots of patches, it became somewhat balanced, it just made rifleman spam balanced but it was still the go to strat for Americans. I don't know why Relic wants to design the game like this.
Riflemen are just the tip of the iceberg. USF has had extremely janky faction design in both CoH2 and CoH3. Part of it is the lack of elite infantry (except rangers) and the need for BARs. Also the lack of arty on the faction. The weakness of Shermans and pretty much all medium generalist tanks is a big issue. The complete lack of blobwiping units on all factions is a HUGE issue. Even the one unit that should be a blobwiper for sure in this game, the whizbang, is really only good against static units. Infantry squads are so survivable in this game now and vehicles usually just don't pack enough of a punch. I remember the anticipation with every shot in CoH2 when I had a tank shooting at infantry. Will it miss? Will it get several kills? Even wipe the squad? Never really happens in this game. You either have a Brummbar consistently dealing 75% damage to a squad, or some medium tank just tickling the inf. Overall, most upgrades in the game probably need reworks. They are just so difficult to balance. The US upgrades are so specific, meanwhile DAK has like 9 upgrades to choose from. The scaling just goes out of whack because of these things. Excuse my disjointed and random thoughts, but I still think this game has a LONG way to go in terms of balance, which is why I keep uninstalling it every time I come back. CoH2 feels like a drug almost every time I play it. CoH3 can be fun from time to time, but its just missing so much nuance and epicness.
The devs are already community members, CoH1 didn't need community members to find the sweetspot, maybe the secret is not having community members being design leads xD That's how we ended up with over the top busted rangers, most un-nerving unit of all when it dropped - and still are cause of stupid 6 weapon slots x)
See in real life the Garand US squads nerfed themselves via having probably the worst squad automatic weapon of all the armies in ww2, the BAR was shoved into this role being heavier than a full rifle, bulky, horrible bipod, no fast reload/ belt fed mechanisms, no quick change barrels and not very controllable in full auto. So US squads generally had higher spreads of organic firepower but German or British squads were able to put down more absolute firepower with their Bren and MG43 or MG34
@@jimhall1728 it’s simple. Don’t give US faction a single unit. Give the specialised units or choices. Dak Pgrens are in the same place. They scale better than Riflemen and get snares. I think if all snares were moved off mainline infantry and onto dedicated AT, you can’t blob them as effectively.
I think implementing a game mechanic if a soldier is running towards another one, received accuracy increases some percent might help. This will encourage positioning and flanking and punish mindless running blobs. There was a mechanic like this in Last of us 2. If you run towards the enemy they shoot you easily. But if you strafe, not so much.
I noticed pre AI blob nerf I would spam riflemen and atg and on top of that the AI blob every 2 minutes. I would lose like 200 models in a game but still end up winning. It
rifleman was THE most important unit in USF in coh1. The rifleman was always superior to volksgrenadier and grenadier the closer it got to them. Even panzer grenadiers would always try to be max firing range away from riflemen. And yes, the move was to just click your rifleman ontop of the enemy's volks/pzgrens if you could. USF would always take more losses than Wehr in CoH1 and still win. IF USF had less casualties than wehr it means that they roflstomped them. anything is better than sniper dominance in my books
Pop Cap is the issue imo, being non-dynamic unlike CoH1 is hurting diversity build. That's probably the number 1 issue right there, pop cap needing logistic upgrades to reach 100. CoH1 & DoW1 knew that, they were built with that resource in mind.
lets just all go back to basics: the US faction is rooted in experience gained, and flanking.... a lot of that comes with rifles... apart from that the game wants to have mixed builds, and punish a mono build akin to any spam.... i truly think that if rifles were beefed up a bit with higher upkeep they would not be spammed as much (as long as there are other counters).... this leads me to my point: where is the true counter? well... its MG's... and game design..... supression and getting pinned needs to happen almost instantly when an MG opens up (especially in no cover situations)... this requires smoke to properly counter, basically forcing a mort or a light vehicle to flank the MG's -nateums
Relic could give US a battlegroup with North African French troops who could be available as a 0 CP unit like Bersas. In contrast to Rifles they shoud be cheaper but should not be able to use Bars.
well it makes sense and nothing can happen because rifle squads will be main units to do capping and fighting and arty will counter infrantry and other support elements and even tanks when they go to repair or just got hit mines then there are slow so arty can deal damage or finnished it off best we can do for coh game is just have diversity and counter play so it can be different while same time would be same in roles but nothing can be done sense it is design core of gameplay wise also about arty counters can be other arty or light cheap vehicle who can go back lines and destroyed said arty or just be scout unit for calling in offmaps vs stactic arty main thing can be done really so yeah
In CoH2 blobbing and infantry spam only works in a few situations where your opponents can't counter it. Long range artillery and mortars are more annoying but good players will move when they hear the guns fire. In CoH3.... There's pretty much no anti blob unit. Most anti blob tools like explosives have a limit to how many models it can damage at once (while in CoH2 it only existed in the Ostwind), so most anti infantry vehicles are way weaker.
I feel the mod for Coh2 spearhead calls to cover being the god send if you run into the open with nothing engaging Lmgs and Hmgs they melt your troops leading to needing to think about how to close in without getting pinned down and deleted You should have to risk to win but you never be like how it is now Also the number of guys on the troops are both too low and to many The red army had a good unit conscripts did one job fight And if you got one an AT weapon then you had a better At unit then a At gun + numbers you could always find a way to win vs conscripts blobs Mgs tanks built for cc or a well placed mine field Can with smarts and being sneaky remove blobs Bigger maps with less people means more thinking and it does get hard to see the full battlefield but it’s still helpful to show how to do good recon and planning Coh3 didn’t fill me with confidence from the movement and the gameplay it only showed me incompetence and moving steps backwards not forward
other great video and i agree on most points and also main problem i find about manpower cheats they just huge reduction if it would be little like 10 % or so would be better balance and still give tiny bit room to do something per say and same with italian coastal mine reduction same problem to be reduction to be consider balance and fun for other player who playing it against and i finding it to be number 1 problem as number 2 is just buff other things for usf like mg buff to suppress infrantry , and tiny buff for airborne and sff in dps wise ( and long range ) to give better reason to build ( while is that there aren't bad units just they are overshadow by riflemen as good unit )
An unaddressed problem is the lack of easy to use names for “Elite” infantry units in the U.S. Army and the perception that all U.S. infantry were the same while the Germans, Italians, British and Soviets had a bunch of special “Elite” units with cool names. This leaves the U.S. faction being reduced to Riflemen, Rangers and Paratroopers in most games while the Germans get a half dozen types of “Something-Grenadier”. This is semi-historically correct, but really overblown. The presence of elite units in the game is the problem in my opinion. If you put a hard cap of 2 squads of “Elite” infantry at a time then all factions would be forced to stick to their mainline infantry more and the problem of only seeing Riflemen would be partially mitigated.
1/ BAR upgrade from 40f to 15f but no more free 1st bar. Bar cost 75 ammo each. 2/ ISC logistic need big nerf on mp cheat. 3/ rifleman pop cap must higher like CoH1
Remove ALL manpower cheats, Captain spawns from all upgrade centres and bring back Vehicle Crush. Anything else would require a total faction redesign, as everything EXCEPT Riflemen was either weak or nerfed to hell
the game is supposed to be easy for the simple people... it's mass product like Battlefield 2042 every Hannes can hit with automatic fire... There are players who are just overwhelmed with 6 different units and just blob with their rifles... that's Relic style. you should also be able to lose a lot and the game is not over yet... you can make a lot more mistakes than in the old titles...
I agree, most usf build is rely on rifleman. I know, rifleman is the backbone of the usf. The main problem is the usf tech tree. I dont say coh2 have the best usf tech tree but muc better than coh3. Btw depend on POV in team game, In 1v1 perspective yes spam rifleman is good. in 4v4, 3v3 spam rifleman to 4 or 5 rifleman your are dead man unless you doesn't get a AT for early games
@@jsizzlesaurusrex Or maybe it's just a capability of one of the 4 factions. I like that there is a faction that can run you down with waves of men. Combined arms, and mechanised are my preferred methods of play. But I'm always sceptical when people say something strong is 'broken'. It needs at least a couple of years before Im willing to get on the band wagon.
Problem with us is that your battle group or support center only solves 1 problem but leaves you lacking. Wehr and dak has everything they need and get extra good stuff with their battle groups. Where is the base us arti? Scout scouting pre vet 1 is a joke even with vet one they die if anything even thinks about shooting at them, they are slow to get into position. Only other scouting is from air support or keep that doesnt provide enough vision to justify anything
.... USF base arty is: the best mortar in the game with airburst, the 75mm halftrack. Every other options are BG on TOP of stock indirect, the scott being the cherry on the cake with a white phosphorous barrage of death on the move. 105 howitzer are absolute monsters with free fire drill. USF doesn't need arty, they get ASC - it's by far way better than any arty if you spare munitions. Way faster response time, way deadlier potential, for the cost of one or a couple grenades.
Not a huge coh person but I feel a lot of your "this is irl doctrine" stuff doenst work vecause coh is arcady, as you said. It seems counterintuitive to mention the doctrinal uses when it cant really be relevant - combat in coh is just not that
There is something i dont understand, if the rifles are the meta, does it means that if they buff alternatives it will just break the game even more? Its the only thing they keep saying, without pointing that maybe riflemen need a nerf so other things become more relevant, because maybe its not that the other things are bad and its just that riflemen are too good.
USF have always been pidgeonholed into being an early game, constant pressure faction, and rifles+ISC is the only option that supports that forced playstyle. Basically, it's a design issue, where nerfing rifles without major buffs elsewhere just ends up crippling the faction.
I think they tried to run with the supply yard idea from coh1. But, it's definitely over done. Captain should probably be unlocked rather than free and the 25% MP reduction could be reduced to say 15% with a cost decrease.
I'd like USF engineers and Assault engineers to also gain a bar if bars are tech. I think it would be a neat way encourage those units to get more play.
As an infantry-enjoyer, I don't really see an issue with rifleman spam (tho I prefer going all out on rangers). A couple of MG's can easily shut down them down. I do however share the wish for viable different playstyles, which I can't find right now. But I wonder why the riflemen/rangers get all the hate. Wehrmacht can do the same thing (can't speak for Brits and DAK, I don't play them). Jäger spam works just as well, maybe even better. Rush 3 or 4 Jägers, upgrade them with Gewehrs and vet 1, and they'll melt any squad from stealth before they have time to react. They can legit kill a full squad of anything in 1 or 2 seconds. Vet 1 costs 125MP and 25 fuel, for instant vet 1 where, giving them 20% damage reduction. 20% reduction vs 25% reinforcement is better for US ofcourse, but when you factor in the 30 fuel for the ISC and 130 fuel for both dmg and reinforcement reduction compared to 25 fuel for the Werhmacht it sounds pretty balanced to me. A bit stronger upgrade, but way more expensive. But that fuel cost also makes it basicly impossible to go vehicles, meaning if for example reinforcement would be nerfed, they'd have to nerf the fuel cost as well to make a balanced army more viable EDIT: Sidenote: I don't get why so many people complain about about riflemen when Brits are so insanely broken. There's legit 0 counterplay against their Humbar. It's impossible to get any kind of anti-vehicle as Wehrmacht before they're able to get a Humbar, and by the time you're able to kill it they've taken over the entire map because all your infantry are either dead or retreated
yeah coh 3 crush is limited to full pin down infrantry in real game it never happens = feels like it isn't ingame but it is but yeah limited and never used sad thing but same time still can't fix riflemen problem because they got at nades = any attempt would fail vs good player so would be back to 0 but vs wher and other infrantry who has no at nade would be force to be with at units at later on ( bersas , wher pgrends , airborne , australian lights etc. )
it's more about spam than blobs, I'm talking about seeing 7 rifles in high level 1v1 play, for me, blobbing is only a problem in the less competitive modes like 3v3 and 4v4. Its not super relevant to the core of the discussion/video.
@@conner4547 Way to call into question the presumed desire to have a balanced game by referring to history to handwave imbalances. Yeah, history wasn't balanced, this is a game. Extremely low IQ comment
coh was always an arcade fake skill spam game and im only here to lol at how the game hasnt changed idk why YT recommended this either idc about bad games :^)
The problem is exaggerated by every other american base unit is so bad, engineers can't charge to close range after dps increase, scout is a joke providing less vision than pioneers, jeep is basically waste of 200mp after the 1.5 penetration buff to small arms, 30 cal hmg perform worse than a maxim and you can't even cooperate with another utility squad to maintain suppression, bazooka squad has all the gimmick but snare removed, sprint removed and 2 zook 120 dmg is a joke compare to shreck 160dmg
lots of words for a very simple idea that seems to be lost... You should be spending your resources and teching as you have gas. There is LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE to build as USA than riflemen. Maybe a single bazooka squad. Maybe a anti tank gun. But Chaffee is ONLY good against vehicles, but not tanks. Greyhound is meh, you're better off saving your fuel for tanks. You can nerf riflemen into the ground, and the build is to build riflemen whenever you have manpower to build them until you get gas for tanks. If you don't want rifles into tanks, ADD FUCKING UNITS to the USA roster that serve a purpose.
chaffee absolutely deals with panzers, and are absolutely worth it if you went MSC. And in any case, USF can rush shermans & hellcats, that's all they need. USF doesn't need even more unit than it already gets, it needs a tuning on their economy. And on top of that, pop cap being non-dynamic unlike CoH1 is hurting diversity build. That's probably the number 1 issue right there, pop cap needing logistic upgrades to reach 100. CoH1 & DoW1 knew that, they were built with that resource in mind.
@@itwasjustaluck I love people that say "without BG" who god damn plays without a BG? and the fact that without BG you can just build a horde of riflemen with MP reduction, have 2 ATs or Hellcats, or Dozers and that's enough to oppress and finish the game before axis builds their brummbar or panther. Even then, Panther won't be able to deal with this composition because it has no god damn AI power. I play all factions, mostly Axis, but it was enough for me to see most of the stuff allies have, and I feel less stressed when playing them, than axis.
@@itwasjustaluck so what? PGs are good, Stoss are squishy shit that takes pop cap, jaggers are ok but worse in damage than sections and aussies with rifles. also squishy. I play all factions... this is the fact that you can spam 1 unit that you can blob and control easier rather then have a mix of which you should be microing for different purposes in the chaos of combat. Just press couple of times sprint on a blob of riflemen, toss snares at tank to cause engine damage, get 2 AT in range, done. Blob of jaggers? you won't see more than 3-4 jaggers with rifles, riflemen will win because they can toss nades to cause jaggers to move and lose acc and sprint to close gaps quick, jaggers will suck close range. Tanks I could agree Hellcats are squishy and rate of fire is bad... but you can spam them and losing 2 Hellcats for 1 Tiger, I think i a good one, you'll be able to build 2 more after that, while the Tiger is gg mostly. You can even spam 4-5 pathfinders, have 2 paras with MGs and wreck the early game, build some mortar pits, bleed the axis, build 75mm and AT. Dude, riflemen are very versatile. The whole design is done around them and it makes it even easier. Axis have to build almost everything to deal with Allied bullshit because very few of their units is so universal as allied.
@@itwasjustaluck " Your answer ist Tunel vision." I'm aware I don't have tunnel vision, thank you for pointing that out. If you were paying attention in class, yo would know the real problem is manpower reduction. you get a C- Be better
Why are you making it video look like Axis don’t spam Pgrens, Fallpios with nade launchers, Jaegers? If anything it’s worse. Such a one sided dumb video. Plz highlight the only things that stress your point. I hope @SplitMilk see’s this meme of a video
Hey buddy, I do address the axis blobs, go to 01.08. The video isn't about which blob is worse/better, its not even about blobs, its about spam, and the the economy that allows spam, man power reductions and weapon profiles, I think you have failed to grasp the core concepts. Maybe the friend you tagged can help you gain a better understanding. hope this was helpful.
So what else do US get if riflemen are so OP? Eng and scouts? 😂😂😂😂 Not every game can you have ‘manpower cheat’. The others are arguably better. OMG 7 rifles!!! So having 7 infantry in the form on Grens, Jeager, Pgrens, Stos etc etc is also unbelievable? Here’s the reality of this cry baby Grens > Riflemen due to the damage sharing gren stealth buff. 6 models until last 15% health meaning no loss of manpower or dps UNLIKE riflemen Jaeger > Riflemen Pgren > Riflemen How much do axis pay in fuel for basic nade unlock? How much fuel for Axis weapon upgrades? Can Riflemen also fix tanks for no fucking reason? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
We moved from the brain-dead LMG mainline attack move of coh2 to the close range AR move order of rifles and pgrens in coh3. Somehow attack move was too complicated so we needed to dumb it down a little
@@jackobrien47 yeah this is totally different from the mindless Fallspios with nade launcher, Jaeger and Pgren boobs also seen isn’t it 🤡 At least a US player has the point that they don’t have another mainliner infantry choice. Same can’t be said about the brain-dead axis blobs 🥴
@AstonHodge I specifically called out pgren boobs as well. My point was that in coh2 it was attack move lmgs that were the issue. Now it's even simpler. With rifles and pgrens they literally just move order towards any threat and it dies.
@@jackobrien47 yep agree on this. The counter to this is a ‘set up time’ giving a 1-2 second wait to use LMGs. If elite infantry don’t need this it gives them more viability and then blobbing them costs more manpower too. They (Relic) CAN but REFUSE to add a blob debuff which is sad. It would honestly make sense if a blob had an incoming suppression debuff for 4 or more units together maybe an increase in received accuracy too of like 15%.
@@jackobrien47 coh 2 lmg blobs get deleted by good micro, nades and any light/med tank.
Another splendid video from a rather splendid cromwell
"...has arrived!"
First and foremost, I think we need negative or "red" cover back in the game. That was pretty huge for preventing blobbing. Increased recieved accuracy and supression on roads and in open fields. I also think the LT shouldn't come out for free. It should be a built unit like it is after it's killed. The ASC buffs have been great. Rifles should have higher upkeep - like similar to Rangers, Paras, and SSF. They can still be cheaper but spamming out 7 should cripple your manpower income. I think that would also help balance manpower cheats. Bumping the fuel cost of advanced logistics could be good too. That would push back the window for getting the upgrade and reduce its impact just by giving it less time to be active.
Some other thoughts I have are a bit more wild, but I think MSC should get a unit similar to the LT. Maybe a Humber-type unit in the form of a T17 Staghound. Give it similar abilities to the LT for vehicles. In the war, it had the same gun as the M8, but maybe it could run with just MGs until the Motor Pool is finished after which it can upgrade to unlock that gun with a munitions upgrade. Give it less armor/health than an M8 and more than the US HT (Which is made out of glass btw. That vehicle needs to be more survivable). Just a thought.
My third idea which I've been thinking about for months now is to give the WSC an upgrade similar to BARs: a .50 cal upgrade to US MG teams. It can be a universal upgrade with a moderate fuel cost that could take the US MG from the weakest MG in the game to the strongest. Increased damage, supression, a wider arc, and better armor penetration (along with an an active AP rounds ability?). That would really help the viability of WSC.
Finally, either reduce the CP cost of SSF call-in or decrease the manpower cost. They are great units once you can get them out, but they are a MASSIVE investment if you want to make them a big part of your army. By the time you have one or two squads out, they are really behind in the XP/vet race and you're 450-900mp sunk. It's too much.
Just my thoughts as a Wher main.
Yeah red cover should be back, though it shouldn't increase recieved damage, only accuracy. Also, more weapons should have incremental accuracy (which increases accuracy for more additional targets near what you're shooting at)
@@MrMeist dude you can’t increase the manpower cost on a mainliner infantry unit. Are all the Axis mains that are all circle jerking each other off on this video aware it’s the ONLY mainliner infantry US get, commanders aside! 🤡
But it was the top players in coh2 that decided red cover is bad as it punishes attacking units, encouraging players to only sit and defend
Yeah, I miss the heavy MGs from CoH2.
@@SapereAude1490 shame about the balance. The Maxim was utter trash. Again some more axis bias for no reason 👍
And no one mentions the effect on wher composition, it just make Pgrens mandatory to a remedy to charging bar rifles. When I use jagers I just get trampled by bars.
25% reduction in cost is better than people think too, it's like a 33% increase in resources
(Thinks of guardsmen in dawn of war 2)
the best thing about this video is the incredible effort and editing you put into it. this was a labor of love. thank you for including me in the process.
Thank you brother, it was great having you on.
*riflemenriflemenriflemenriflemenriflemenriflemenriflemenriflemenriflemen*
This is what peak performance looks like.
Wow can’t believe I haven’t discovered this channel until now. You deserve few million subscribers.
wow! thats very kind of you man. Thanks :)
A free half track with the mechanised center a free anti air half track with the air centre will fix the unbalance
good to have you back brother. Hope you are well
Indian is not a problem because unlike USF - UKF is NOT an infantry faction (they have waaaaay more VALID armored options) while Wehr goes more infantry/bunker/team weapons focused (MP hungry) army composition when picking Luftwaffe. UKF simply never plays so MP heavy units to pick MP reduction trait. This is why MP reduction should be just discarded altogether.
Also, I think that TTK play key role - it cost NOTHING to close in yolo style for USF, if TTK becomes shorter - rifles WILL need other units to close in while also remaining decent on medium and long - this means their versatility is not damaged but to be effective they need set up from other units. Kinda reverse from DAK where 1 unit (flak/guasta/Tiger etc set ups everything for the rest of the units)
Giving viable alternative is great to fix over reliance on rifles. Alternative is not just some other mainline but also Thompsons for Paras (right now if map/lane is CQB - you never go airborne, also both vets and abilities beg for Thompsons).
Ain't no way this is like the same problem back then in Coh2 when they made the Osttruppen extremely good to the point that you can get away with just 7 Osttruppen and even beat the Brits in their own game when it comes to their cover combat mechanic.
At least in coh2 the “manpower cheat” for cons wasn’t op. It was only a 2 mp reduction and gave them great benefits for them.
Add back rear echelons and make them viable for say the first 5 minutes of the game. Allow them to do sandbags and barbed wire but not much else?
Make rangers a call in unit. Or upgradeable from rear echelons.
Might encourage a bit more wsc play? Then you might get straight to your doctrine mainline.
As someone who plays COH3 very very little (only played a few multiplayer games and a little of Campaign), but played a lot of COH 1, I remember when COH 1 first came out, people had the same complaints about rifleman squads. Even when after lots of patches, it became somewhat balanced, it just made rifleman spam balanced but it was still the go to strat for Americans. I don't know why Relic wants to design the game like this.
Riflemen are just the tip of the iceberg. USF has had extremely janky faction design in both CoH2 and CoH3. Part of it is the lack of elite infantry (except rangers) and the need for BARs. Also the lack of arty on the faction. The weakness of Shermans and pretty much all medium generalist tanks is a big issue. The complete lack of blobwiping units on all factions is a HUGE issue. Even the one unit that should be a blobwiper for sure in this game, the whizbang, is really only good against static units. Infantry squads are so survivable in this game now and vehicles usually just don't pack enough of a punch. I remember the anticipation with every shot in CoH2 when I had a tank shooting at infantry. Will it miss? Will it get several kills? Even wipe the squad? Never really happens in this game. You either have a Brummbar consistently dealing 75% damage to a squad, or some medium tank just tickling the inf. Overall, most upgrades in the game probably need reworks. They are just so difficult to balance. The US upgrades are so specific, meanwhile DAK has like 9 upgrades to choose from. The scaling just goes out of whack because of these things.
Excuse my disjointed and random thoughts, but I still think this game has a LONG way to go in terms of balance, which is why I keep uninstalling it every time I come back. CoH2 feels like a drug almost every time I play it. CoH3 can be fun from time to time, but its just missing so much nuance and epicness.
Would like to see Relic let certain community members help with balancing and coming up with new battlegroups. They clearly are struggling.
The devs are already community members, CoH1 didn't need community members to find the sweetspot, maybe the secret is not having community members being design leads xD
That's how we ended up with over the top busted rangers, most un-nerving unit of all when it dropped - and still are cause of stupid 6 weapon slots x)
See in real life the Garand US squads nerfed themselves via having probably the worst squad automatic weapon of all the armies in ww2, the BAR was shoved into this role being heavier than a full rifle, bulky, horrible bipod, no fast reload/ belt fed mechanisms, no quick change barrels and not very controllable in full auto. So US squads generally had higher spreads of organic firepower but German or British squads were able to put down more absolute firepower with their Bren and MG43 or MG34
And now think of 10 riflemen squads with Boys ATRs as a britain...
those were the dark days
👇petition for admission of the author to the coh3 balance department
Author needs some cope-ium! What else do US buy? Scout squad or engineer late game? Dude there’s like 3 units to pick from. Get a grip!
@@AstonHodgemaybe he's suggesting we talk about that maybe he wants us to debate, figure out the problem for ourselves
@@jimhall1728 it’s simple. Don’t give US faction a single unit. Give the specialised units or choices. Dak Pgrens are in the same place. They scale better than Riflemen and get snares. I think if all snares were moved off mainline infantry and onto dedicated AT, you can’t blob them as effectively.
Yeaa buddy!! Good video big mines baby, big riflemans baby !! ;-)
thank you for the big comment BABEE!!!!
@@Rather.Splended.Cromwell Always a pleasure, never a chore
@@KoffietanksGamingHeroes het thats my line! :p
@@Rather.Splended.Cromwell Thanks I learned from the best! :)
"Now you have to add [all the upgrades], and you become the Red Army"
Except they had manpower problems and CoH3 USF doesn't.
at its peak the Red army had over 34 million Soldiers.... im just going to let that sink in.
I think implementing a game mechanic if a soldier is running towards another one, received accuracy increases some percent might help. This will encourage positioning and flanking and punish mindless running blobs. There was a mechanic like this in Last of us 2. If you run towards the enemy they shoot you easily. But if you strafe, not so much.
When you mentioned how you wanted to use riflemen, you could also throw in the suppression system from Brothers in Arms.
Bro your channel is sick. You can make funny vids and memes then come out with these analytical bangers.
you just made my heart swell, thank you brother
I bought coh 3, played 4 games and started playing coh 1 again still to this day
I noticed pre AI blob nerf I would spam riflemen and atg and on top of that the AI blob every 2 minutes. I would lose like 200 models in a game but still end up winning. It
rifleman was THE most important unit in USF in coh1. The rifleman was always superior to volksgrenadier and grenadier the closer it got to them. Even panzer grenadiers would always try to be max firing range away from riflemen. And yes, the move was to just click your rifleman ontop of the enemy's volks/pzgrens if you could.
USF would always take more losses than Wehr in CoH1 and still win. IF USF had less casualties than wehr it means that they roflstomped them.
anything is better than sniper dominance in my books
Pop Cap is the issue imo, being non-dynamic unlike CoH1 is hurting diversity build. That's probably the number 1 issue right there, pop cap needing logistic upgrades to reach 100.
CoH1 & DoW1 knew that, they were built with that resource in mind.
lets just all go back to basics: the US faction is rooted in experience gained, and flanking.... a lot of that comes with rifles... apart from that the game wants to have mixed builds, and punish a mono build akin to any spam.... i truly think that if rifles were beefed up a bit with higher upkeep they would not be spammed as much (as long as there are other counters)....
this leads me to my point: where is the true counter? well... its MG's... and game design..... supression and getting pinned needs to happen almost instantly when an MG opens up (especially in no cover situations)... this requires smoke to properly counter, basically forcing a mort or a light vehicle to flank the MG's
-nateums
Relic could give US a battlegroup with North African French troops who could be available as a 0 CP unit like Bersas. In contrast to Rifles they shoud be cheaper but should not be able to use Bars.
since coh2, the game allways devolve in allies eiter spaming infantry or long range artillery. nothing less
well it makes sense and nothing can happen because rifle squads will be main units to do capping and fighting and arty will counter infrantry and other support elements and even tanks when they go to repair or just got hit mines then there are slow so arty can deal damage or finnished it off
best we can do for coh game is just have diversity and counter play so it can be different while same time would be same in roles but nothing can be done sense it is design core of gameplay wise
also about arty counters can be other arty or light cheap vehicle who can go back lines and destroyed said arty or just be scout unit for calling in offmaps vs stactic arty main thing can be done really so yeah
In CoH2 blobbing and infantry spam only works in a few situations where your opponents can't counter it. Long range artillery and mortars are more annoying but good players will move when they hear the guns fire.
In CoH3.... There's pretty much no anti blob unit. Most anti blob tools like explosives have a limit to how many models it can damage at once (while in CoH2 it only existed in the Ostwind), so most anti infantry vehicles are way weaker.
5men squad Riflemen + higher pop cap
I'm just over here trying to find the song for when the Lee Enfield is mentioned
i'll try and find it for you when I finish work later. holdfast
iv'e updated the description with a link to the song you wanted
@@Rather.Splended.Cromwell much obliged. nice to add a new irish folk song to my collection
Pretty solid points. Just uninstalled after a few matches of rifle spam.....(completed the campaigns tho)
I feel the mod for Coh2 spearhead calls to cover being the god send if you run into the open with nothing engaging Lmgs and Hmgs they melt your troops leading to needing to think about how to close in without getting pinned down and deleted
You should have to risk to win but you never be like how it is now
Also the number of guys on the troops are both too low and to many
The red army had a good unit conscripts did one job fight
And if you got one an AT weapon then you had a better At unit then a At gun
+ numbers you could always find a way to win vs conscripts blobs Mgs tanks built for cc or a well placed mine field
Can with smarts and being sneaky remove blobs
Bigger maps with less people means more thinking and it does get hard to see the full battlefield but it’s still helpful to show how to do good recon and planning
Coh3 didn’t fill me with confidence from the movement and the gameplay it only showed me incompetence and moving steps backwards not forward
other great video and i agree on most points
and also main problem i find about manpower cheats they just huge reduction if it would be little like 10 % or so would be better balance and still give tiny bit room to do something per say
and same with italian coastal mine reduction same problem to be reduction to be consider balance and fun for other player who playing it against
and i finding it to be number 1 problem as number 2 is just buff other things for usf like mg buff to suppress infrantry , and tiny buff for airborne and sff in dps wise ( and long range ) to give better reason to build ( while is that there aren't bad units just they are overshadow by riflemen as good unit )
thank you for your feedback brother
WHY DOES TIGHTROPES FACE LOOK LIKE THAT?
It's a stressful game :( He puts himself into hypervigilance
An unaddressed problem is the lack of easy to use names for “Elite” infantry units in the U.S. Army and the perception that all U.S. infantry were the same while the Germans, Italians, British and Soviets had a bunch of special “Elite” units with cool names. This leaves the U.S. faction being reduced to Riflemen, Rangers and Paratroopers in most games while the Germans get a half dozen types of “Something-Grenadier”. This is semi-historically correct, but really overblown. The presence of elite units in the game is the problem in my opinion. If you put a hard cap of 2 squads of “Elite” infantry at a time then all factions would be forced to stick to their mainline infantry more and the problem of only seeing Riflemen would be partially mitigated.
Using a bullet hose as a straight nerf? That is stupid.
1/ BAR upgrade from 40f to 15f but no more free 1st bar. Bar cost 75 ammo each.
2/ ISC logistic need big nerf on mp cheat.
3/ rifleman pop cap must higher like CoH1
İf somebody started spamming riflemen in coh2 the first thing theyll be facing is a wall of mg42 unless youre okw then youre fucked
Imagine if you could get shotguns for riglemen too lol
Man I wish this whole game had been a mid war CoH 2 expansion lol
Remove ALL manpower cheats, Captain spawns from all upgrade centres and bring back Vehicle Crush.
Anything else would require a total faction redesign, as everything EXCEPT Riflemen was either weak or nerfed to hell
Here for the memes.
I should have put more in for you pal, im working on another video idea atm, its going to be meme heavy, I promise :)
@@Rather.Splended.Cromwell based. Great videos though. Very splended.
@@tea2thebagel58 thank you brother
Swap all manpower reduction tech to t4 like in coh 2
the game is supposed to be easy for the simple people... it's mass product like Battlefield 2042 every Hannes can hit with automatic fire...
There are players who are just overwhelmed with 6 different units and just blob with their rifles... that's Relic style. you should also be able to lose a lot and the game is not over yet... you can make a lot more mistakes than in the old titles...
The AOE3 bas8c riflemen spam.
I agree, most usf build is rely on rifleman. I know, rifleman is the backbone of the usf. The main problem is the usf tech tree. I dont say coh2 have the best usf tech tree but muc better than coh3. Btw depend on POV in team game, In 1v1 perspective yes spam rifleman is good. in 4v4, 3v3 spam rifleman to 4 or 5 rifleman your are dead man unless you doesn't get a AT for early games
No mods for this cRap game ?
I dont get how a faction using it's core infantry troops is a bad thing????
If that is all they ever need to win games, there might be something broken with that unit.
@@jsizzlesaurusrex Or maybe it's just a capability of one of the 4 factions.
I like that there is a faction that can run you down with waves of men. Combined arms, and mechanised are my preferred methods of play. But I'm always sceptical when people say something strong is 'broken'. It needs at least a couple of years before Im willing to get on the band wagon.
8:40 Axis player mindlessly moving his blob of Pgren and Pio while 1 Single rifleman sits in cover. Oh the irony 😂
Didn't know attacking suppressed Tommy with all they can was kinda blobbing.
@@user-yv1be3yz7v yeah if you are any good at the game you spread them out and flank MGs easily. It will come with practice 👍
Problem with us is that your battle group or support center only solves 1 problem but leaves you lacking. Wehr and dak has everything they need and get extra good stuff with their battle groups. Where is the base us arti? Scout scouting pre vet 1 is a joke even with vet one they die if anything even thinks about shooting at them, they are slow to get into position. Only other scouting is from air support or keep that doesnt provide enough vision to justify anything
....
USF base arty is: the best mortar in the game with airburst, the 75mm halftrack. Every other options are BG on TOP of stock indirect, the scott being the cherry on the cake with a white phosphorous barrage of death on the move. 105 howitzer are absolute monsters with free fire drill.
USF doesn't need arty, they get ASC - it's by far way better than any arty if you spare munitions. Way faster response time, way deadlier potential, for the cost of one or a couple grenades.
Not a huge coh person but I feel a lot of your "this is irl doctrine" stuff doenst work vecause coh is arcady, as you said. It seems counterintuitive to mention the doctrinal uses when it cant really be relevant - combat in coh is just not that
There is something i dont understand, if the rifles are the meta, does it means that if they buff alternatives it will just break the game even more? Its the only thing they keep saying, without pointing that maybe riflemen need a nerf so other things become more relevant, because maybe its not that the other things are bad and its just that riflemen are too good.
USF have always been pidgeonholed into being an early game, constant pressure faction, and rifles+ISC is the only option that supports that forced playstyle. Basically, it's a design issue, where nerfing rifles without major buffs elsewhere just ends up crippling the faction.
I think they tried to run with the supply yard idea from coh1. But, it's definitely over done. Captain should probably be unlocked rather than free and the 25% MP reduction could be reduced to say 15% with a cost decrease.
god forbid you excercise actual map control in a strategy game 😒
Please Relic remove manpower cheats already!
I'd like USF engineers and Assault engineers to also gain a bar if bars are tech. I think it would be a neat way encourage those units to get more play.
7.6k people have seen this video. Which is surprising since i havent seen 7.6k people even play the game. Coh2 is still there and its still better.
COH2 is a great game
@@Rather.Splended.Cromwell bro im here to argue with people you cant obliterate me like dat
As an infantry-enjoyer, I don't really see an issue with rifleman spam (tho I prefer going all out on rangers). A couple of MG's can easily shut down them down. I do however share the wish for viable different playstyles, which I can't find right now.
But I wonder why the riflemen/rangers get all the hate. Wehrmacht can do the same thing (can't speak for Brits and DAK, I don't play them). Jäger spam works just as well, maybe even better. Rush 3 or 4 Jägers, upgrade them with Gewehrs and vet 1, and they'll melt any squad from stealth before they have time to react. They can legit kill a full squad of anything in 1 or 2 seconds. Vet 1 costs 125MP and 25 fuel, for instant vet 1 where, giving them 20% damage reduction.
20% reduction vs 25% reinforcement is better for US ofcourse, but when you factor in the 30 fuel for the ISC and 130 fuel for both dmg and reinforcement reduction compared to 25 fuel for the Werhmacht it sounds pretty balanced to me. A bit stronger upgrade, but way more expensive.
But that fuel cost also makes it basicly impossible to go vehicles, meaning if for example reinforcement would be nerfed, they'd have to nerf the fuel cost as well to make a balanced army more viable
EDIT:
Sidenote: I don't get why so many people complain about about riflemen when Brits are so insanely broken. There's legit 0 counterplay against their Humbar. It's impossible to get any kind of anti-vehicle as Wehrmacht before they're able to get a Humbar, and by the time you're able to kill it they've taken over the entire map because all your infantry are either dead or retreated
Talks about blobs and never mentions lack of crush in coh3.
yeah coh 3 crush is limited to full pin down infrantry in real game it never happens = feels like it isn't ingame but it is but yeah limited and never used sad thing but same time still can't fix riflemen problem because they got at nades = any attempt would fail vs good player so would be back to 0
but vs wher and other infrantry who has no at nade would be force to be with at units at later on ( bersas , wher pgrends , airborne , australian lights etc. )
it's more about spam than blobs, I'm talking about seeing 7 rifles in high level 1v1 play, for me, blobbing is only a problem in the less competitive modes like 3v3 and 4v4. Its not super relevant to the core of the discussion/video.
@@Rather.Splended.Cromwell Valid point.
@@dragonltu8349 Valid point.
mfw the faction historically known for having well equipped, plentiful infantry has well equipped, plentiful infantry.
@@conner4547 classic case of missing the forest for the trees
@@lastword8783 An issue of skill, iffin you ask me
@@conner4547 Way to call into question the presumed desire to have a balanced game by referring to history to handwave imbalances. Yeah, history wasn't balanced, this is a game. Extremely low IQ comment
coh was always an arcade fake skill spam game and im only here to lol at how the game hasnt changed idk why YT recommended this either idc about bad games :^)
Because every other option for USF is just TRASH. Spam wins games in CoH3 which is boring.
I want the voice changed. 3s voice is just not good. What’s funny is that they balanced decently before.
Blud identified the real problem which is the eco
Then goes around again just to complain about rifleman 🤦🤦
The problem is exaggerated by every other american base unit is so bad, engineers can't charge to close range after dps increase, scout is a joke providing less vision than pioneers, jeep is basically waste of 200mp after the 1.5 penetration buff to small arms, 30 cal hmg perform worse than a maxim and you can't even cooperate with another utility squad to maintain suppression, bazooka squad has all the gimmick but snare removed, sprint removed and 2 zook 120 dmg is a joke compare to shreck 160dmg
The quad with 4 guns shooting somehow doesn't suppress, kill infantry slower than a regular mg42, incompetent at anti-air.
lots of words for a very simple idea that seems to be lost...
You should be spending your resources and teching as you have gas.
There is LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE to build as USA than riflemen.
Maybe a single bazooka squad.
Maybe a anti tank gun.
But Chaffee is ONLY good against vehicles, but not tanks.
Greyhound is meh, you're better off saving your fuel for tanks.
You can nerf riflemen into the ground, and the build is to build riflemen whenever you have manpower to build them until you get gas for tanks.
If you don't want rifles into tanks, ADD FUCKING UNITS to the USA roster that serve a purpose.
chaffee absolutely deals with panzers, and are absolutely worth it if you went MSC. And in any case, USF can rush shermans & hellcats, that's all they need.
USF doesn't need even more unit than it already gets, it needs a tuning on their economy.
And on top of that, pop cap being non-dynamic unlike CoH1 is hurting diversity build. That's probably the number 1 issue right there, pop cap needing logistic upgrades to reach 100.
CoH1 & DoW1 knew that, they were built with that resource in mind.
USF suffers
Wait for the allied players to come and say that USF is the weakest faction in the game, and that UKF too.
there have been mutliple times were the DAK v UKF matchup had a 95% winrate for DAK, i think UKF is overperforming that winrate should be 0.5%
@@itwasjustaluck im actually a brit main, its important to play all factions so you dont get tunnel vision like you :)
@@itwasjustaluck I love people that say "without BG" who god damn plays without a BG? and the fact that without BG you can just build a horde of riflemen with MP reduction, have 2 ATs or Hellcats, or Dozers and that's enough to oppress and finish the game before axis builds their brummbar or panther. Even then, Panther won't be able to deal with this composition because it has no god damn AI power.
I play all factions, mostly Axis, but it was enough for me to see most of the stuff allies have, and I feel less stressed when playing them, than axis.
@@itwasjustaluck so what? PGs are good, Stoss are squishy shit that takes pop cap, jaggers are ok but worse in damage than sections and aussies with rifles. also squishy. I play all factions... this is the fact that you can spam 1 unit that you can blob and control easier rather then have a mix of which you should be microing for different purposes in the chaos of combat. Just press couple of times sprint on a blob of riflemen, toss snares at tank to cause engine damage, get 2 AT in range, done. Blob of jaggers? you won't see more than 3-4 jaggers with rifles, riflemen will win because they can toss nades to cause jaggers to move and lose acc and sprint to close gaps quick, jaggers will suck close range.
Tanks I could agree Hellcats are squishy and rate of fire is bad... but you can spam them and losing 2 Hellcats for 1 Tiger, I think i a good one, you'll be able to build 2 more after that, while the Tiger is gg mostly.
You can even spam 4-5 pathfinders, have 2 paras with MGs and wreck the early game, build some mortar pits, bleed the axis, build 75mm and AT. Dude, riflemen are very versatile. The whole design is done around them and it makes it even easier. Axis have to build almost everything to deal with Allied bullshit because very few of their units is so universal as allied.
@@itwasjustaluck " Your answer ist Tunel vision." I'm aware I don't have tunnel vision, thank you for pointing that out. If you were paying attention in class, yo would know the real problem is manpower reduction. you get a C- Be better
Why are you making it video look like Axis don’t spam Pgrens, Fallpios with nade launchers, Jaegers? If anything it’s worse. Such a one sided dumb video. Plz highlight the only things that stress your point. I hope @SplitMilk see’s this meme of a video
Hey buddy, I do address the axis blobs, go to 01.08. The video isn't about which blob is worse/better, its not even about blobs, its about spam, and the the economy that allows spam, man power reductions and weapon profiles, I think you have failed to grasp the core concepts. Maybe the friend you tagged can help you gain a better understanding. hope this was helpful.
So what else do US get if riflemen are so OP? Eng and scouts? 😂😂😂😂
Not every game can you have ‘manpower cheat’. The others are arguably better.
OMG 7 rifles!!! So having 7 infantry in the form on Grens, Jeager, Pgrens, Stos etc etc is also unbelievable?
Here’s the reality of this cry baby
Grens > Riflemen due to the damage sharing gren stealth buff. 6 models until last 15% health meaning no loss of manpower or dps UNLIKE riflemen
Jaeger > Riflemen
Pgren > Riflemen
How much do axis pay in fuel for basic nade unlock?
How much fuel for Axis weapon upgrades?
Can Riflemen also fix tanks for no fucking reason?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂