@@Lightwolf_VREvent Horizon folds space and makes your current position overlap with your destination, so in theory it's instantaneous. 40k rips a hole in reality and lets you ride the energies of the immaterium, essentially shortening travel time substantially unless you get swept off course.
@@Reddotzebrahe kinda did, when he punished the Word Bearers at Monarchia he told them that’s what a god would do, but it backfired in the worst way possible
Fun Fact, The "the infantry made me what I am today" Veteran with no legs, is straight out of the books, if I remember right they meet him again with robot legs where he admits that they put him as the receptionist to scare people away from the military, so that only people who really want to join go in.
@@CrazyGecko it definitely has its moments, but there is a pretty sizable speed bump about halfway through where the protagonist starts talking about his time at the Military Academy and it’s just describing history tests
@@CrazyGecko Well, yes. Mostly because the film is made by an idiot who never read it and deluded himself that the book depicted fascism, so he wanted to satirize it with his film. XD
@@morelstrike Bro, the guy who made the movie survived under Nazi occupation of his home country and was sorounded by fascism propaganda. When he tried to read the book he couldnt go through with it because it triggered his trauma. It's ok not to like the movie but calling him an idiot while ignoring the context is a bit much
@@ResidentSchizoidHe did have someone who read the book describe it to him, tho. Plus, the original screenwriter always wanted a cheesy, satirical tone back when the script was still “Bug Hunt At Outpost 9”
"'Come on, men! Do you want to live forever!' The noncom in charge of the squad must have been on something, I thought. Nobody spoke like that outside of badly-written combat novels." From Ciaphas Cain book series.
What I find cool is that starship troopers itself took that line from something an American marine officer named Daniel Daly said to his men as they went over the top in ww1
Dune is the only context in which the question "Would you still love me if I was a worm?" makes perfect sense for a character to ask. (Well, I guess that and Animorphs.)
It goes a little deeper than that. The Automatons are kidnapping Super Earth colonists and harvesting their brains for reasons that aren't made clear yet. They very well could be stuffing the bits into the robo chassis.
To elaborate on God Emperor of dune (and Children of Dune as well) Leto II who would become the god emperor was forced to awaken his prescient powers to the greatest possible degree. What he saw when he looked into the future was human extinction along every path but one. He looked at infinity and saw one chance for the human species to survive. That chance is the golden path. He recognized that if he could make a certain set of possibilities happen he would create a future in which the human species was impossible to extinguish. So, Leto made himself into a tyrant to teach humanity a lesson "that their bones will remember", and this was a Christ like sacrifice for him because Leto himself was one of the nicest most honorable men to ever live. He spent thousands of years forcing himself to be as ruthless and authoritarian as possible in order to teach humanity the lesson they needed, hating every second of it. Like a parent who knows they're hurting their child's feelings in the moment because they have to teach them a vital lesson about something no matter how hard it is for them to do it. Humanity was Leto's child, he had to make them grow up and face the universe as a mature species, and he killed everything outwardly good and loving about himself to do it.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 not quite so simple, he found it depressing after a few chapters(he grew up in nazi occupied belgium i believe), so relied on his screenwriter to finish the book. that should give you a clue why he changed up the tone tho, from glorification to sattire
@@PirateTrowel85 I hear he didn't finished the first chapter. And if he actually was interested in the book, then why did he made the bugs so monstrous? Keeping the bugs as an intelligent species, would have made it more effective as a satire.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 I think the film is meant to imitate a propaganda film in universe, so the bugs being objectively evil fits the simplistic black and white morality of fascist propaganda. I haven't watched it myself though, I just know the plot, so idk.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 from what I can tell it was people around him being interested in the book, the screenwriter and his partner foremost. I don't think he did, which might explain the more monstrous bugs amongst others. He wasn't engaging with a lot of the subtleties in the book more what he saw as the background setting. Dunno tbh just trying to make sense of it myself
I haven't watched the movie, but the book feels like an alien intelligence is trying to create a biome that makes sense to it but isn't necessarily friendly to humans.
Something I didn't hear them talk about: Dune also has possession! Remember that Baron Harkonnen passed his personality down to Alia through genetics, and she ended up going insane. She was called an "Abomination" for a reason.
And it's the most well known early example of the whole "genetic memory" trope that Assassin's Creed later cribbed shamelessly. Tapping into ancestral knowledge is basically how and why the Bene Gesserit do all the stuff they do.
The level of power Paul, and by extension Leto II, had with their prescience can not be understated. Thanks to being able to see past and future from almost being the Kwisatz Haderach, plus being trained as a Mentat to have a mind that can organize all that information, led to near omnipotence. The man loses his vision and still knows where everyone is and what everyone is doing just about everywhere (excluding other near-Haderachs and Navigators, though he could usually figure it out from seeing whats "missing" from his prescience). Dune Messiah was such a fun read because you would read through several chapters of top-tier assassins perfecting every step of the infiltration and fooling even Paul's inner circle... Only to have a Paul chapter where he thinks "Right, guess its time for my meeting with the assassin."
"The End and the Death is literally the Siege of Terra basically and it's three books." Ohh Bricky, no The End and the Death is three books about Horus vs the Emperor. There's like 10 books in the Siege of Terra.
2 and 1 book about everything else irrelevant pointless and inconsequential going on in the general vicinity. That and fabulous hawk Boi getting pulped but mostly the first bit
Tbf, a big reason 40k has a lot of 2000AD stuff in it is cause, over time, they just straight up got everyone they could from 2000AD to write their novels and draw their stuff. Like, Dan Abnett is a big example of that. Dude is an amazing writer, but he brought in a lot of his 2000AD work into 40k, and then took his 40k work and put it into Marvel. Annihilation all the way up to Thanos Imperative is just straight up 40k with superheroes. He, Andy Lanning and Keith Giffen turned Annihilus into a Tyrannid God and Phyla into Saint Celestine (like, Phyla STRAIGHT UP looks like a Sister of Battle, too, and her superhero name is MARTYR. Like, HELLO!?). I feel like people upset at 40k taking stuff from 2000AD need to realize that they’re basically worked on by almost the same writers and artists.
As soon as saw that Dune’s god Emperor was a giant manworm I immediately remembered that Grim adventures of Billy and Mandy episode where they looked into the future and it showed Mandy now ruled the world and was giant immortal worm creature and her power coming from cinnamon, a spice. Can’t believe that episode was a big reference to the Dune universe.
Its one of those fun things you can do when you go back and watch those old cartoons now your an adult i never realised how many dirty jokes and references the writers and animators snuck into those 90s/00s cartoons
A few more little tidbits about 'Event Horizon': The blood orgy scene was cut up to hell. There was supposedly another 20 minutes or so of footage cut from the movie that's still to see the light of day. The director hired porn stars and amputees to make the sex and mutilations more convincing and realistic. Among the stuff that was cut was a scene where a man crawls across the deck while people hack at his legs with tools and knives until his legs come off, or there was a scene where a woman is strapped down and someone takes a power drill to her teeth. The scenes were shown to the original test audiences and half of them fainted and/or vomited in disgust. Nobody knows where the extra footage is or who has hold of it. Also if you look at the interior of the ship, look at the architecture and take note of all the gothic arches, and the closer you get to the core it looks more and more like a cathedral than a space ship. And we cannot forget Dr. Weir's amazing line; "Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see..."
I know a lot of footage was cut but that sounds kinda urban legendy to me. Honestly leaving it mostly off screen was probably the right idea. More haunting if you just have to imagine it.
Seriously does no one on earth remember Micheal Moorcock? Eight pointed Star of Chaos? A cosmic battle between demonic forces of chaos and Order? Who's protagonist had the battle cry "Blood and Souls!"
@@Mister-Thirteen Oh notjust the Drukhari. The Drow as they were portrayed for years in dungeons and dragons were also heavily inspired by the Melniboneans. A lot of the evil long lived elf like empires known for scary magic trace back to Moorcock.
The Black Templars battle cry is taken from Terminator "That Terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel PITY, or REMORSE, or FEAR..." NO PITY! NO REMORSE! NO FEAR!
From what I understood of Heinlein, Starship Troopers (the book) is basically his Atlas Shrugged. It's not really written as a sci fi novel to begin with, it's literally him just going "If I wanted to set up an utopian government, this is what I would do! Look, now it's under attack from aliens and it still works so well!" His point is that because influence on the political machine is such a big responsibility, everyone who wants to vote or (Gods forbid) hold office, should need to prove to the state that they are willing to sacrifice in order to get such power. It's not just military service, you can basically choose any awful job that no sane individual would ever want to do and if you do your allotted time, you get to be a citizen. These are the "meant to be awful" kind of jobs on the level of "clean the sewers of the local meat processing factory for the allotted number of years using only a toothbrush, and no food unless you finish your quota, you can quit whenever you like."
It's not a sci-fi more philosophical and piece about society and surprisingly accurate prediction of the downfall in America later. Specifically the chapter about parental figures not disciplining their children and sparing the rod against criminals instead influencing people to be upstanding members of society.
"If I wanted to set up an utopian government, this is what I would do!" Maybe. "Look, now it's under attack from aliens and it still works so well!" No. The attack is what force some youngsters to grow up.
@@erikjohnson7141 Bruv the problems with our justice system are emphasizing dehumanization and slavery of convicts instead of actually caring about mental health and reducing crime through quality of life.
I forget where I heard it(my brain is telling me Bricky's Powerwasher stream) but apparently the team building exercise that the devs did was building and painting Warhammer minis
Dune gets a lot of attention as a background for 40k, but people forget the timeline is almost a copy paste of the foundation series. In the year 50k a galactic Empire is on the verge of collapse due to bureaucratic incompetence and regressing technology. A patriarchal figure with prophetic knowledge lays the foundation of a new empire to rise from the following age of strife. He manipulates the development of a neighboring planet to give rise to a cult of machine worshippers and convinces them he is their messiah. This new Empire expands outward through the galaxy using merchant fleets of rogue traders to establish trade routes and incorporate new planets. There's even a recurring theme about how his prophecy being based on normal human behavior.and since it's the only hope for humanity, deviation (heresy), along with mutants and aliens are it's greatest threat
I'll be honest, I may have to turn in my scifi fan card because I've never got round to reading the Foundation series. I really should. Between Foundation, Michael Moorcock and a few other things there's probably a second part for this that could be done!
The machine worshippers even carry out high tech tasks as religious rites rather than innovation just like the mechanicus as well if I remember correctly. tho towards the end of the first book they also randomly go like “this isn’t useful anymore we’re going to stop doing it” about that aspect of the tech religion after it’s been adopted by dozens of worlds. Which seemed kind of sudden and unrealistic to me.
Definitely worth a read, its like Dune where it's a lot of depth and sometimes hard to dig in, but there's a LOT of the "precognition/statistical predictions and manipulations of the populace vs dangers of free will" in the Foundation series that the Apple adaptation isbsorely I lacking, reading/audiobook is definitely the better if you can manage it if you need to!
Guys, you need to add "Foundation" into the conversation. The technological regression is a massive part of the book series and the mould for the Mechanicus and Rogue Traders are definetly taken from there as well. If Dune is the father of all Sci-Fi then Foundation is the grandfather.
But I want to add that Dune has had a bigger impact on the Warhammer 40k world in general. Everything from the the God Emperor of Mankind, Rogal Dorn´s pain glove, psykers, blanks and so much more.
@@sebbeamigo Psykers were in Foundation, as "mentalics" - the first one the reader encounters if you stick to just the Foundation trilogy is even explicitly identified as a "mutant".
The thing about dune's god emperor is that he is right in a way. He is worse than the Emperor, but saw the entire future of humanity before him and he saw there was no chance for surviving whats to come unless he follows the golden path. Paul is to afraid to do it and that leads to the genocide of tens of billions and almost dooms humanity. Leto sees that the enslavement of trillions would grow hatred agains him and his rule, but that would ultimately help humanity by spreading the prescience gene. We actually kind of see the danger that's coming in the last pages of the last book, but Herbert died before starting book 7 so we are mostly left in the air to what happens and if Leto was right or wrong
Also just so humanity was so scattered they could not be under one rule, so even if there was a catastrophe, humanity somewhere in the universe survived
I mentioned that the OG starship troopers book was on my “to read” list and a buddy went hard on “Instead of reading fascist, propaganda, try Dune! Or any of the other non Fascist Sci-fi political books!” They promptly got roasted by someone in our Discord who had read the book and called the government hard Libertarian. I got to laugh my ass off!
50:37 the author had been dead for 10 years before the film came out the filmmaker hated the politics of the book so he made it a satire of the books politics which is why it’s so goofy
@greendalf123 OP is referring to a gene-hacking Guild/race in Dune. The axolotl tanks were basically cloning chambers that could copy cells from the dead, or that they could build assassins with certain aptitudes. The Guild/race deem these pods basically the women of their race since there isn't really another way to make life. The Daemonculaba was a Chaos creation where human women were used as surrogate mothers, stretched beyond their limits and fed geneseed to generate new Chaos Space Marines via c-section basically, who's skin came from human males who were flenced outside the facility. Their clones weren't great to say the least.
@@willmarsden7657 my recollection of the books is even worse than that: nobody has ever seen a Tleilaxu female since they are hyper xenophobic and forbid any outsider from entering their planets. Eventually one Bene Gesserit figures out that they have turned their women into Axlotl Tanks and use them as incubation tanks to make their clones and genetically enhanced assassins. So similar to the Daemonculaba as in both cases see women forcefully turned into artificial wombs for super-soldiers, albeit with more body horror in 40K because Chaos
So is Counter-Strike - originally a mod of Half-Life, Deadpool - who was a blatant spoof of Deathstroke, etc. Lots of great stuffs started out as spin-offs, mods, or parodies of existing IPs.
Regarding Starship Troopers, Heinlein wrote that shortly after attempting to publish an article (Who Are the Heirs of Patrick Henry?) decrying the US's plans to scale back nuclear testing after the literal and figurative fallout of the Bikini Atoll. He viewed the government existing for the military defense of its people first, foremost, and without any compromise to civilians or the world at large as a cornerstone of the article. The failure to get his article published (because it was just so unhinged) caused him to switch gears and write Starship Troopers to get his thoughts published somehow.
When they made the first Starship Troopers movie there was a HUGE budgetary issues. They did not have the money to do the Arachnid and the M.I. Power Armor. So the film maker decided to spend the budget on the bugs and then just had regular infantry. I saw the interview with the film maker. I was a fan of book Starship Troopers for years and years before the movie. The Power Armor in Starship Troopers deployed from orbit is individual capsules. Only two or three squads of 10 to 12 troopers were deployed to handle an entire operation. The Power Armor even carried tactical nukes (like 100 yards blast area) which were fired from the back of the armor. Also the primary weapon of the trooper was a flamer. Also there was a "trick" used by the author. The main characters name is Johnny Rico. The author stated the main character was Puerto Rican. The character was named Johnny so no one realized it since it was the 1950s and that was not considered acceptable.
ever since GW started shutting down the fanmade animated projects I've been waiting for someone to do a video like this pointing out just how many IP's GW has ripped off.
By extension of props, the Armor used in Starship Troopers was used in the filming of Power Rangers Lost Galaxy. Just a fun fact. Also the director of the Starship Troopers movie, didn’t understand the government from the book, so he made them obviously authoritarian, and satirical.
My Gunny made us read it. I thought it was a really good book. I would say the book is more about military and political philosophy than propaganda, which is admittedly why I really didn’t get the movie the first time I saw it.
@@grimb8kn748 probably why non military don't seem to understand the book. I loved the movie before I read the book. Now I love both. But yeah the political philosophy was what me and my 1SG discussed. It was actually a nice experience, we bonded a bit and I understood his reasons behind his decisions.
When I clicked on the video and saw it was 1:20 I was like “what? How is it this long?” And then I realized it’s a Keiroth episode and I was like “oooohhhh that’s why”
About the Starship Troopers stuff, mainly the movie. I just want to mention thos quote. "I want to make a movie so painfully obvious in its satire that everyone who understands it lives in perpetual psychological torment inflicted on them by all the people who don't" -Paul Verhoeven, 1996
@@Jormyyy I would disagree considering much of the movie you see the Federation doing numerous things that would be anthema to an actual fascist state and only a single instance, maybe, that could be otherwise but we don't have enough information on it (the execution scene, for reference). I don't doubt the director's intent behind the movie, you can see it, but I do think he did an utterly abysmal job of it at almost every level considering he's sayirizing fascism that doesn't exist by portraying non-fascist actions but thinking they are.
I don't see many people mention Isaac Asimov's Foundation when it comes to 40k inspirations. I might be wrong but I think it's among the earlier depiction of Cult Mechanicus style religion as a tool for conquest and control.
I haven’t watched this yet, but I’m gonna guess there’s no mention of A Canticle For Leibowitz. The novel that inspired the Adeptus Mechanicus and Brotherhood of Steel. Also not really a direct inspiration, though it did come out first but Boloverse has giant super tanks loaded with guns powered by AI and has many stories of humanity waking up these machines to help them fight off aliens. Again might not be an actual inspiration but definitely similar to Baneblades and Titans with there machine spirits. Especially the Mark XXXIIIs which work basically identically to Titans and there thrones. Even if it’s not 40K, you can just pretend it’s taking place during the Golden Age of Technology and a bit into the start of the Age of Strife.
On tonight's episode of the Ridiculous Tour: Bricky recommends a lot of actually quite good books that are very influential in the world of sci fi and you should definitely read some of them. DK makes it clear that he will read none of them And Shy is glaring at anyone talking louder than a whisper because this is a Library, damnit!!! All this to come and more, after the break! My reccomendation is Illium and Olympos by Dan Simmons. If you've ever wondered if the Siege of Troy could be improved by an army of robots, given it a look.
@@menschman1464 ironically, I've only read the last two of the Hyperion Cantos somehow. But even not having properly read the series, can confirm it's great!
@@SymbioteMullet book one is really incredible. Possibly my favorite novel of all time. Not spoilers for story but structurally it’s set up like a sci fi cantorbury tales with seven characters all going to a holy site. Each subsection is one of the characters telling their story, and each time it changes sub-genre (there’s a war story, a horror story, a tragedy, a dark comedy etc) and usually changes up perspective (one’s a journal one’s first person one’s third person etc) it’s such a neat weird book. Simmons also has some horror stuff, the terror (was made into a series on amc I think) and summer of night are stand outs
If I wasn't bald I would rip my hair out at the clear lack of knowledge for Dune and Starship Troopers, which is weird given they are the main topics, but that's glum "im at work putting up with job shit listening to this" and I sometimes forget this is a convo between pals.
No welcome to the club. I love seeing people discuss Starship when they only know about it from a paragraph summary written by a teenager with no political knowledge and a movie by an angry man who hated and couldn't be fjcked to read the source material. It's a phenomenal book and people who don't understand the political commentary of it all really shows why the western world is where it is now. Not to mention they call Heinlein gramps, like he's some stereotypical boomer and not an author who had a non-white main character in a time before the MLK Jr and the main Civil rights movement
Honestly my favorite thing on that topic is the part of "The Mote in God's Eye"(1974) that has an excerpt about the story "Istvaan Dies" about the Empire of Man bombing a habited planet until everyone on it was dead. I just find that absolutely hilarious, that the idea for that was entirely taken from another book from 13 years before 40K was even a thing
Can we all agree that Kirioth should be a permanent member of the crew and not just on a 12 month probation period. Anyway great work everyone as always and keep it up.
For the record, Starship Troopers THE BOOK was serious. The movie was a satire. Paul Verhoeven was strongly against the militaristic and authoritarian themes of the book, and decided to use the movie as a way to undermine them.
Just like the Starship troopers movie, Helldivers 2 tells the player that they’re not the good guys but only shows/has the characters doing morally correct and even anti-fascist things consistently
If you guys want a version of Dune that isn't the 1984 version, and doesn't have the pacing issues of the newest one, sci-fi made Dune and Children of Dune into a miniseries and the director's cut is pretty deece. Children of Dune stars a young James McCavoy. Edit: It should also be noted that the god-emperor that appears in God Emperor of Dune is actually Paul's son Leto. In Children of Dune Paul's son becomes the Kwisatz Haderach by combining his flesh with the sand worms in order to save his people, sees the "golden path" and feels that he is now trapped by it and cannot change it.
Oh yeah, I've heard a movie critic describe the Starship Troopers movie adaptation in relation to its source material as "the most staggeringly mean-spirited things an artist has done to another artist"
OOO! Very close and I think you're right on the quote being the shortest. If it wasn't abbreviated, it would have been tied with, "God is cringe," during the episode of "The Last Church."
@52:00 Paul verhoven. He grew up in nazi occupied Belgium and did not truck with anything fascist at all. He only read part of the book and said nah I don't like this. So he set out to make the movie as satirical and poking fun at fascism as he could.
The Federation in his movie isn't fascist though. They actually are a democracy. Their Sky Marshal steps down after the debacle at Klendathu. Their propaganda always tells the truth and only then attempts to put a spin on it. You can leave the military in boot camp with no questions asked. If the Federation is supposed to be fascist, then Verhoven doesn't know what fascism is.
The director of Starship Troopers was a hack, he hated the book, gutted the story and pushed out his own propaganda. I'm glad that people love the movies in a way that he hates as people still see the bugs as scum that needs eradicating and the humans are cool.
In Dune the context actually had sort-of aliens. The Emperor foresaw a great threat in the future from outside the human Empire, and therefore needed to iron out everything before that transpired. The whole thing revolved around the enemy being super-intelligent and therefore able to see the future by doing super complex calculations, so what You need is humanity to evolve in such a way that is extremely unpredictable, therefore throwing a wrench into the enemy's best asset. At least that's what I remember - it's super convoluted though. Basically the problem of "how do I fight an enemy that can predict my every move in a deterministic world", to which he said "make it not deterministic"
I've never wanted to well actually them before but as a dune lore lover I cant help it. Also if you don't know dune, spoilers. The Sardaukar were abolished by Leto II after one of the Duncans, as captain, led a revolt against him. The fish speakers replaced the Sardaukar and existed for the vast majority of Leto's rule so he never used the Sardaukar in any real sense since they were loyal to the Corrino family first and only followed Leto for a short time because of Farad'n being the concubine of Ghanima. Also the big difference between Leto and big E is that Leto can actually see the future, not just a vague notion, so his being a tyrant is because he knows it's the only way for humanity to survive and really didn't want to do it since it came at the massive sacrifice of his humanity, both mental and physical, and he knew he would die and live in a permanent state of dreamlike awareness for thousands of years. Like he called Paul a coward for not having the guts to make that sacrifice. He also didn't really rule through bloodshed as much as ironhanded economics. His full spice monopoly meant that military action against him was basically impossible since spice was necessary for all forms of trade and transportation, and again, can see the future. Leto's peace as it was called was just a complete enforcement of the status quo. Travel bans were issued across the empire meaning outside of trade and key individuals you were not allowed to leave the planet you were born on. His goal was to make humanity so bored that they would never again allow a tyrant to rise out of a desire for security or just complacency, and humanity would explode into the universe during the scattering because of thousands of years of enforced confinement.
I am so stoked for Warboss book club. Perfect example of when imperial ineptitude at every level meets with the unwavering conviction of orkish willpower.
@3RNR3 the belief, at least between me and my former 1SG is that if people had to serve they'd underatand the weight of war. You have to keep in mind Heinlein wrote it before the massive military industry hit and war became a profit machine. But yeah, if your leaders experienced and understood the brutality and cost of war, leaders would think twice before making decisions for us to send people to war. It's why even the vets that liked fighting that I know and served with frequently are anti government and anti war. They did it because it was a job and gave them opportunities and benefits they didn't have and they got that rush, but deep down they really don't like war. It's was enlightening joining the army because you find out that what most people believe about the military isn't true or not to the extent they believe.
@@erikjohnson7141 the theory doesn't seem to hold up given how many US presidents in the last century were in the military before going into politics. Not to mention the tapes Kennedy recorded of the joint chiefs almost starting WW3 during the cuban missile crisis because the military leaders were way too gung ho about using force to solve their problems
46:20 Note: bio-lock measres on weapons only serve to give power to a swich to unlock a bolt. Tear off the lock, apply a charge to the switch, bolt unlocks.
For Starship Troopers bugs, they do have FTL spaceships. Books go into it more, but the movie briefly mentions it from what i heard. They are an expansionist race and inhabit other planets. (Plan to rewatch the movie as its been a while, especially with HDII makes me want to watch it again, and will check for myself) As for the "the feel fear" scene. Yeah its goofy to us and how its played out. In context the earth forces were in serious trouble as they were barely hanging in the fight vs the bugs. The fact the brain bug of a hive mind felt fear means that it thinks they, the bugs, are instead the ones in trouble. Which gave the troopers there in that moment a glimps of real hope against the bugs.
@@Scowleasy oh i know its got satirical parts in relations to fascism as well action pieces. Doesn't mean there are parts in satire that can make you think, sometimes thats the point. There is such a thing as a scene or jokes to have multiple meanings. For example, yeah it appears silly that the recruiter of all people is disabled yet still encouraging those who decide to sign up. In reality, both book and movie, this recruiter is there to show what could happen to those in the military. And are you really, really, sure you want to join up as emlisted man/woman? But sure, narrow down to just satire and action if you like.
Both Robert Heinlein and Paul Veerhoven lived through WW2. Heilein was an adult in the US and was reformed out of the Navy for a disease before the conflict. Veerhoven was a child in the occupied Netherlands. They don't have the same perspective on the militarism and fascism thing XD Heinlein was not racist though, which is rare for 1959. Like, in the book, John Rico is Juan Rico, and he's from the Phillipines, and most of the characters are not white ^^
@@alfredosaint-jean9660Dude, Lovecraft had multiple non-white helpful main characters in books released during PEAK LYNCHING time. His problem was that he was socially inept and the 1/3rd of others racism had a leak in from his very full international tanker worth of classist thought.
If Cain ever gets the treatment of saint Celestine, I imagine his personal hell to get ressurected would be something akin to a greeting hall with everyone who followed him praising him and thanking him for his leadership as the hero of the imperium, while he has to walk to the other side of the wall to manifest himself. His stomach dropping for every step he takes, surrounded by the poor fools who still believe him to be a hero, forgetting how his failures caused their deaths.
Half an hour in and not surprised we're still in Dune. I always saw it like Herbert claiming "Scifi needs to go dark" and GW laughed and said "Hold my beer!" Love them both! About Starship Troopers, I immediately toyed the idea that the asteroid attack was false flag operation, igniting horrible hatred against the bugs.
Amnesia: The Bunker is HORRIFYING. Managing the dilemma of gas, experimenting with hiding is spine chilling, and holy you have to play as the ultimate terror. The French.
49:20 the crippled guy is in the book as well. He misses 3 limbs and has no prosthetics. But when the protagonist stay a bit late into the night, prostetics guy walks past them on some fancy metal legs. He goes: "Oh the cripple thing is just to scare of the kids with weak minds". Generally they don't want everyone to serve, just the most arian people are worthy of a position in the military. There are a lot of facist undertones as well, like the unworthy applicants becoming human lab rats. Also Carl died on Mars. Poor Carl
The Sam Neil line from Event Horizon that will Forever be burned into my mind, when he’s sitting in the chair and he turns and says “ we don’t need eyes where we’re going “ which is just like a What the fuck line, but also it’s just plain creepy.
for the love of god please get someone who knows about Heinlein on the podcast at some point to explain how little you guys understood of the actual book and what he was going for ... it had very little overlap with anything 40k, despite what the movie would have you believe (the director never read the book and refused to use it for the script), although Starship Troopers was Hugely influential in Japan and the creation of their love of giant stompy robots - the Mobile Infantry do use powered armor, but they're described more in the Hulkbuster/Gundam "power armor" and not like Space Marines who are men with powered suits on. Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers to advocate for the duty and responsibilities of a citizen and to outline his "ideal society" where anyone Could be a citizen, but that meant that a citizen had served the republic in some way ... and those who did Not serve the republic in some way were not a citizen and therefore could not vote on laws, etc. ... essentially, unless you had sacrificed you could not understand what it means to ask others to do so, and that society must be guided by those who had actually secured its freedoms. So, when the recruiter is saying "the MI made me what I am today!" he is doing two things - one, being very serious ... it made him a citizen and he's now able to vote, doesn't have to pay taxes, etc. and therefore he is willing to accept that he no longer has arms/legs because of what he has Gained through service (he feels he is More than a "mere civilian" who never served and must pay taxes, restricted from gov office, etc.); but, his second function (which is Literalyl Explained In The Book By The Recruiter) is to try and discourage as many ppl as possible from joining the service because Anyone can join ... and they have to find a job for them all, regardless of how fit they are to actually serve. And every job must, in some way, put the person at risk so that everyone finishes their service with a sense of understanding what it means to Be a citizen. So if someone who has the actual brain capacity of an ant wants and all they can do is sweep floors? Those floors have to in some way pose a threat to his life so when he leaves the service and votes? He knows what it means to be a citizen ... if ... he can grasp the concept of ... whatever, semantics.
I'm pretty sure the service had to be difficult, not particularly dangerous. Hence the example of someone like a paraplegic counting the hairs on a worm. So with the example of sweeping floors, its probably the most disgusting and caked over floors there are in the federation.
My impression has always been that "service" must in some way pose a threat to their life so that when they vote to go to war they understand the burden of being a citizen and deciding to send someone off to potentially die, because they have faced that potentiality themselves. Or, the more likely scenario, they understand what it "means" to be a citizen - ie, they feel they earned the benefits they now receive and it is "difficult+dangerous" enough to dissuade the majority of people from joining.@@jaromswenson7541
As a calm person once said: Rebel Moon is not good but the fact it exists is good To simplify for the people who don’t understand, Rebel Moon isn’t good but the fact that it’s original is good
![Episode 303 [Prison Break] CasualTryHardMTG Podcast](/img/n.gif)
Event Horizon: Last technology unlocked: Warp Drives
To do:Gellar fields
The fun thing is, from the extremely little we know of what went down during the Golden Age, this is canon!
Nope.. its not how warp travel works in 40k
@earlgrey2130 tell me about the difference.
@@Lightwolf_VREvent Horizon folds space and makes your current position overlap with your destination, so in theory it's instantaneous. 40k rips a hole in reality and lets you ride the energies of the immaterium, essentially shortening travel time substantially unless you get swept off course.
@@henrikrasmussen1579THANK YOU!!! I hate how people just "Hurr Durr 40k prequel!" this movie!
God emperor Leto is the classic “I became the horrible villain so people would learn to overthrow the villain”
Big E should unironically have leaned into that angle from the start. He wants gods gone, so he should have tried to become the worst god of them all.
@@Reddotzebra Problem is that he knows that gods exist and there's nothing he can do about it.
@@Reddotzebrahe kinda did, when he punished the Word Bearers at Monarchia he told them that’s what a god would do, but it backfired in the worst way possible
@@zachjohnson8944yeah but that was unintentional
“I hate murder so I’m gonna do a lot of it so other people realize it’s bad” no, that’s fucking stupid
Fun Fact, The "the infantry made me what I am today" Veteran with no legs, is straight out of the books, if I remember right they meet him again with robot legs where he admits that they put him as the receptionist to scare people away from the military, so that only people who really want to join go in.
I really need to ready the book. The more I heard about it, the more it seems awesome!
@@CrazyGecko it definitely has its moments, but there is a pretty sizable speed bump about halfway through where the protagonist starts talking about his time at the Military Academy and it’s just describing history tests
@@CrazyGecko Well, yes.
Mostly because the film is made by an idiot who never read it and deluded himself that the book depicted fascism, so he wanted to satirize it with his film. XD
@@morelstrike Bro, the guy who made the movie survived under Nazi occupation of his home country and was sorounded by fascism propaganda. When he tried to read the book he couldnt go through with it because it triggered his trauma.
It's ok not to like the movie but calling him an idiot while ignoring the context is a bit much
@@ResidentSchizoidHe did have someone who read the book describe it to him, tho. Plus, the original screenwriter always wanted a cheesy, satirical tone back when the script was still “Bug Hunt At Outpost 9”
"'Come on, men! Do you want to live forever!' The noncom in charge of the squad must have been on something, I thought. Nobody spoke like that outside of badly-written combat novels." From Ciaphas Cain book series.
What I find cool is that starship troopers itself took that line from something an American marine officer named Daniel Daly said to his men as they went over the top in ww1
Cain's taking the piss out of Gaunt's Ghosts too, Commissar Gaunt uses the same US marine quote rather often.
That's literally a quote from a marine. Might be cheesy but it sure worked
Medal of Honor Marine said it.
Fat Electrician did a long video about him.
Ironically, I'm about 95% sure that quote was cribbed from an unnamed US Marine NCO either during the storming of Tripoli or Montezuma.
Dune is the only context in which the question "Would you still love me if I was a worm?" makes perfect sense for a character to ask. (Well, I guess that and Animorphs.)
"Absolutely" - Hwi Noree
Zelda from Tears of the Kingdom: "Would you love me if I was a wyrm?"
Damn I miss Animorphs it was my favorite thing growing up the ending was kinda depression fuel.
I like how the hell divers dreadnoughts are basically 40k dreadnoughts with how they move about and fire about being absolute units
I have said that the Hulks look like dreadnaughts and the Devestators look like terminators
@@JTman2013tbh the Devastators looks like the droids from the clone wars
It goes a little deeper than that. The Automatons are kidnapping Super Earth colonists and harvesting their brains for reasons that aren't made clear yet. They very well could be stuffing the bits into the robo chassis.
@@JTman2013hulks look like ork war bosses actually
@@ChumbynKnopamore like a Big Mek
To elaborate on God Emperor of dune (and Children of Dune as well) Leto II who would become the god emperor was forced to awaken his prescient powers to the greatest possible degree. What he saw when he looked into the future was human extinction along every path but one. He looked at infinity and saw one chance for the human species to survive. That chance is the golden path. He recognized that if he could make a certain set of possibilities happen he would create a future in which the human species was impossible to extinguish.
So, Leto made himself into a tyrant to teach humanity a lesson "that their bones will remember", and this was a Christ like sacrifice for him because Leto himself was one of the nicest most honorable men to ever live. He spent thousands of years forcing himself to be as ruthless and authoritarian as possible in order to teach humanity the lesson they needed, hating every second of it. Like a parent who knows they're hurting their child's feelings in the moment because they have to teach them a vital lesson about something no matter how hard it is for them to do it.
Humanity was Leto's child, he had to make them grow up and face the universe as a mature species, and he killed everything outwardly good and loving about himself to do it.
“It sounds like the guy who wrote the film wanted to take the piss out of the guy who wrote the book” that is exactly what happened
Kinda.
The director got bored after just a few pages and then did whatever he wanted.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 not quite so simple, he found it depressing after a few chapters(he grew up in nazi occupied belgium i believe), so relied on his screenwriter to finish the book. that should give you a clue why he changed up the tone tho, from glorification to sattire
@@PirateTrowel85 I hear he didn't finished the first chapter.
And if he actually was interested in the book, then why did he made the bugs so monstrous?
Keeping the bugs as an intelligent species, would have made it more effective as a satire.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 I think the film is meant to imitate a propaganda film in universe, so the bugs being objectively evil fits the simplistic black and white morality of fascist propaganda. I haven't watched it myself though, I just know the plot, so idk.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 from what I can tell it was people around him being interested in the book, the screenwriter and his partner foremost. I don't think he did, which might explain the more monstrous bugs amongst others. He wasn't engaging with a lot of the subtleties in the book more what he saw as the background setting. Dunno tbh just trying to make sense of it myself
"Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see" - Dr. Weir after becoming one of the first humans ever to receive the blessings of the Dark Gods
If I’m not mistaken, The Starship Trooper book was the origination of the concept of power armor.
Yes It was!
Yes it was the first time when it was mentioned, and the power armor have mini nukes.
Sort of. There was an obscure comic in the 30s but Starship Troopers is indeed the more famous example.
Power armor. Augur targeting. Orbital drop shock troopers. Personal nuclear weapons. All from the Starship Troopers novel.
Such a great book
I'd add Annihilation as a sort-of Tzeentch movie, with things changing in ways that just make no sense
Mouth of madness two both are great weird Tzeentch movies
More like when Nurgle and Tzeentch argue who shall corrupt the same plot of land.
I haven't watched the movie, but the book feels like an alien intelligence is trying to create a biome that makes sense to it but isn't necessarily friendly to humans.
Something I didn't hear them talk about: Dune also has possession! Remember that Baron Harkonnen passed his personality down to Alia through genetics, and she ended up going insane. She was called an "Abomination" for a reason.
And it's the most well known early example of the whole "genetic memory" trope that Assassin's Creed later cribbed shamelessly. Tapping into ancestral knowledge is basically how and why the Bene Gesserit do all the stuff they do.
The level of power Paul, and by extension Leto II, had with their prescience can not be understated. Thanks to being able to see past and future from almost being the Kwisatz Haderach, plus being trained as a Mentat to have a mind that can organize all that information, led to near omnipotence. The man loses his vision and still knows where everyone is and what everyone is doing just about everywhere (excluding other near-Haderachs and Navigators, though he could usually figure it out from seeing whats "missing" from his prescience). Dune Messiah was such a fun read because you would read through several chapters of top-tier assassins perfecting every step of the infiltration and fooling even Paul's inner circle... Only to have a Paul chapter where he thinks "Right, guess its time for my meeting with the assassin."
"The End and the Death is literally the Siege of Terra basically and it's three books." Ohh Bricky, no The End and the Death is three books about Horus vs the Emperor. There's like 10 books in the Siege of Terra.
2 and 1 book about everything else irrelevant pointless and inconsequential going on in the general vicinity. That and fabulous hawk Boi getting pulped but mostly the first bit
I’m reminded of all the jokes about dragonball z and goku spending entire episodes charging up one attack
I cringe so hard every time they talk about Horus heresy. You'd think they would've at least googled it at some point lmao.
Tbf, a big reason 40k has a lot of 2000AD stuff in it is cause, over time, they just straight up got everyone they could from 2000AD to write their novels and draw their stuff. Like, Dan Abnett is a big example of that. Dude is an amazing writer, but he brought in a lot of his 2000AD work into 40k, and then took his 40k work and put it into Marvel. Annihilation all the way up to Thanos Imperative is just straight up 40k with superheroes. He, Andy Lanning and Keith Giffen turned Annihilus into a Tyrannid God and Phyla into Saint Celestine (like, Phyla STRAIGHT UP looks like a Sister of Battle, too, and her superhero name is MARTYR. Like, HELLO!?). I feel like people upset at 40k taking stuff from 2000AD need to realize that they’re basically worked on by almost the same writers and artists.
As soon as saw that Dune’s god Emperor was a giant manworm I immediately remembered that Grim adventures of Billy and Mandy episode where they looked into the future and it showed Mandy now ruled the world and was giant immortal worm creature and her power coming from cinnamon, a spice. Can’t believe that episode was a big reference to the Dune universe.
Its one of those fun things you can do when you go back and watch those old cartoons now your an adult i never realised how many dirty jokes and references the writers and animators snuck into those 90s/00s cartoons
A few more little tidbits about 'Event Horizon':
The blood orgy scene was cut up to hell. There was supposedly another 20 minutes or so of footage cut from the movie that's still to see the light of day. The director hired porn stars and amputees to make the sex and mutilations more convincing and realistic.
Among the stuff that was cut was a scene where a man crawls across the deck while people hack at his legs with tools and knives until his legs come off, or there was a scene where a woman is strapped down and someone takes a power drill to her teeth.
The scenes were shown to the original test audiences and half of them fainted and/or vomited in disgust. Nobody knows where the extra footage is or who has hold of it.
Also if you look at the interior of the ship, look at the architecture and take note of all the gothic arches, and the closer you get to the core it looks more and more like a cathedral than a space ship.
And we cannot forget Dr. Weir's amazing line; "Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see..."
I know a lot of footage was cut but that sounds kinda urban legendy to me.
Honestly leaving it mostly off screen was probably the right idea. More haunting if you just have to imagine it.
Also, another thing that was cut out was some of the mutilated bodies were impaled upon eight-pointed stars.
"We're leaving." - Perturabo
said Perturabo, bitterly*
Seriously does no one on earth remember Micheal Moorcock?
Eight pointed Star of Chaos?
A cosmic battle between demonic forces of chaos and Order?
Who's protagonist had the battle cry "Blood and Souls!"
They should have mentioned Moorcock, but I can understand the lack of mention. His work is very much the inspiration for Warhammer Fantasy.
@@TheLordofMetroids And the Drukhari which borrows liberally from Elric and his people.
Isn't the Laer Blade that corrupted Fulgrim based on Stormbringer?
I’d say blame the Witcher for stealing- I mean being inspired by Elric
@@Mister-Thirteen Oh notjust the Drukhari. The Drow as they were portrayed for years in dungeons and dragons were also heavily inspired by the Melniboneans. A lot of the evil long lived elf like empires known for scary magic trace back to Moorcock.
The Black Templars battle cry is taken from Terminator
"That Terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel PITY, or REMORSE, or FEAR..."
NO PITY! NO REMORSE! NO FEAR!
Says a lot about astartes lol
From what I understood of Heinlein, Starship Troopers (the book) is basically his Atlas Shrugged.
It's not really written as a sci fi novel to begin with, it's literally him just going "If I wanted to set up an utopian government, this is what I would do! Look, now it's under attack from aliens and it still works so well!"
His point is that because influence on the political machine is such a big responsibility, everyone who wants to vote or (Gods forbid) hold office, should need to prove to the state that they are willing to sacrifice in order to get such power. It's not just military service, you can basically choose any awful job that no sane individual would ever want to do and if you do your allotted time, you get to be a citizen. These are the "meant to be awful" kind of jobs on the level of "clean the sewers of the local meat processing factory for the allotted number of years using only a toothbrush, and no food unless you finish your quota, you can quit whenever you like."
It's not a sci-fi more philosophical and piece about society and surprisingly accurate prediction of the downfall in America later. Specifically the chapter about parental figures not disciplining their children and sparing the rod against criminals instead influencing people to be upstanding members of society.
"If I wanted to set up an utopian government, this is what I would do!"
Maybe.
"Look, now it's under attack from aliens and it still works so well!"
No.
The attack is what force some youngsters to grow up.
@@erikjohnson7141 Bruv the problems with our justice system are emphasizing dehumanization and slavery of convicts instead of actually caring about mental health and reducing crime through quality of life.
Helldivers 2 has a damn Boxnaught in it basically.
And also what feels like ironhands lookin lads.
I'm not too familiar with the first helldiver game but the automatons are created by a cyborg race...and we all know how iron hands feel about flesh
I forget where I heard it(my brain is telling me Bricky's Powerwasher stream) but apparently the team building exercise that the devs did was building and painting Warhammer minis
Dune gets a lot of attention as a background for 40k, but people forget the timeline is almost a copy paste of the foundation series.
In the year 50k a galactic Empire is on the verge of collapse due to bureaucratic incompetence and regressing technology. A patriarchal figure with prophetic knowledge lays the foundation of a new empire to rise from the following age of strife. He manipulates the development of a neighboring planet to give rise to a cult of machine worshippers and convinces them he is their messiah. This new Empire expands outward through the galaxy using merchant fleets of rogue traders to establish trade routes and incorporate new planets.
There's even a recurring theme about how his prophecy being based on normal human behavior.and since it's the only hope for humanity, deviation (heresy), along with mutants and aliens are it's greatest threat
I'll be honest, I may have to turn in my scifi fan card because I've never got round to reading the Foundation series. I really should. Between Foundation, Michael Moorcock and a few other things there's probably a second part for this that could be done!
The machine worshippers even carry out high tech tasks as religious rites rather than innovation just like the mechanicus as well if I remember correctly. tho towards the end of the first book they also randomly go like “this isn’t useful anymore we’re going to stop doing it” about that aspect of the tech religion after it’s been adopted by dozens of worlds. Which seemed kind of sudden and unrealistic to me.
Definitely worth a read, its like Dune where it's a lot of depth and sometimes hard to dig in, but there's a LOT of the "precognition/statistical predictions and manipulations of the populace vs dangers of free will" in the Foundation series that the Apple adaptation isbsorely I lacking, reading/audiobook is definitely the better if you can manage it if you need to!
All Sci-fi is Asimov fanfic. All Fantasy is Tolkein fanfic.
I'm a bad nerd bc Dune never really made my pee pee go boing so I've never read it.
Guys, you need to add "Foundation" into the conversation. The technological regression is a massive part of the book series and the mould for the Mechanicus and Rogue Traders are definetly taken from there as well. If Dune is the father of all Sci-Fi then Foundation is the grandfather.
But I want to add that Dune has had a bigger impact on the Warhammer 40k world in general. Everything from the the God Emperor of Mankind, Rogal Dorn´s pain glove, psykers, blanks and so much more.
God Emperor or Empire, same thing.
@@sebbeamigo Psykers were in Foundation, as "mentalics" - the first one the reader encounters if you stick to just the Foundation trilogy is even explicitly identified as a "mutant".
The thing about dune's god emperor is that he is right in a way. He is worse than the Emperor, but saw the entire future of humanity before him and he saw there was no chance for surviving whats to come unless he follows the golden path. Paul is to afraid to do it and that leads to the genocide of tens of billions and almost dooms humanity. Leto sees that the enslavement of trillions would grow hatred agains him and his rule, but that would ultimately help humanity by spreading the prescience gene. We actually kind of see the danger that's coming in the last pages of the last book, but Herbert died before starting book 7 so we are mostly left in the air to what happens and if Leto was right or wrong
Also just so humanity was so scattered they could not be under one rule, so even if there was a catastrophe, humanity somewhere in the universe survived
@@krald8421 exactly
Foundation is also a huge influence. It was the first major book series to have a far flung future with a decaying galactic empire.
Bricky said “Ayn Rand” and I definitely thought he said “Angron” 😂
Starship Troopers: Tell me you never read the book without telling me you never read the book.
I mentioned that the OG starship troopers book was on my “to read” list and a buddy went hard on “Instead of reading fascist, propaganda, try Dune! Or any of the other non Fascist Sci-fi political books!”
They promptly got roasted by someone in our Discord who had read the book and called the government hard Libertarian. I got to laugh my ass off!
@@Zakvadr1995holy shit, those are some takes
@@Zakvadr1995 A person who calls the book Fascist is just allergic to responsibility.
@@atleelang4050 to be fair, the guy was a (Hard Line) Socialist . So anything he disagreed with was Fascist.
@@Zakvadr1995 Being a socialist would make him allergic to responsibility.
50:37 the author had been dead for 10 years before the film came out the filmmaker hated the politics of the book so he made it a satire of the books politics which is why it’s so goofy
If only the director actually understood the book he was making satire of....or the politics he was trying to mock.
My favorite Dune ripoff from 40K is the fact that the Tleilaxu Axlotl Tanks may have been the inspiration for the Daemonculaba
Can you explain? Don’t know what that is
@greendalf123
OP is referring to a gene-hacking Guild/race in Dune. The axolotl tanks were basically cloning chambers that could copy cells from the dead, or that they could build assassins with certain aptitudes. The Guild/race deem these pods basically the women of their race since there isn't really another way to make life.
The Daemonculaba was a Chaos creation where human women were used as surrogate mothers, stretched beyond their limits and fed geneseed to generate new Chaos Space Marines via c-section basically, who's skin came from human males who were flenced outside the facility. Their clones weren't great to say the least.
@@willmarsden7657 my recollection of the books is even worse than that: nobody has ever seen a Tleilaxu female since they are hyper xenophobic and forbid any outsider from entering their planets. Eventually one Bene Gesserit figures out that they have turned their women into Axlotl Tanks and use them as incubation tanks to make their clones and genetically enhanced assassins.
So similar to the Daemonculaba as in both cases see women forcefully turned into artificial wombs for super-soldiers, albeit with more body horror in 40K because Chaos
Reminder that 40K started as a joke spin-off of a fantasy game
So is Counter-Strike - originally a mod of Half-Life, Deadpool - who was a blatant spoof of Deathstroke, etc. Lots of great stuffs started out as spin-offs, mods, or parodies of existing IPs.
@@ngominh259wait dead pool was a spoof of deathstroke? huh guess I learn something new everyday.
@@ngominh259 the DoTA series has a similar history from what I understand.
@@ngominh259Art begets Art, amirigh? It's like a beautiful extra layer on a cake. Made of historical winks to each creator. It's just cool.
@@NoobWonderWafflemy dude, marvel and dc have been ripping off one another since the start. You can go down a rabbit hole
You comment that Heinlein hated the Starship Troopers movie, but Heinlein died in '88, 9 years before the movie was made.
Bro, you know that the correct timeline isn't AdRick's specialty.
Regarding Starship Troopers, Heinlein wrote that shortly after attempting to publish an article (Who Are the Heirs of Patrick Henry?) decrying the US's plans to scale back nuclear testing after the literal and figurative fallout of the Bikini Atoll. He viewed the government existing for the military defense of its people first, foremost, and without any compromise to civilians or the world at large as a cornerstone of the article. The failure to get his article published (because it was just so unhinged) caused him to switch gears and write Starship Troopers to get his thoughts published somehow.
The God Emperor of Dune wasn't just tyrannical. With his worm body he was tyranidal.
When they made the first Starship Troopers movie there was a HUGE budgetary issues. They did not have the money to do the Arachnid and the M.I. Power Armor. So the film maker decided to spend the budget on the bugs and then just had regular infantry.
I saw the interview with the film maker. I was a fan of book Starship Troopers for years and years before the movie.
The Power Armor in Starship Troopers deployed from orbit is individual capsules. Only two or three squads of 10 to 12 troopers were deployed to handle an entire operation. The Power Armor even carried tactical nukes (like 100 yards blast area) which were fired from the back of the armor. Also the primary weapon of the trooper was a flamer.
Also there was a "trick" used by the author. The main characters name is Johnny Rico. The author stated the main character was Puerto Rican. The character was named Johnny so no one realized it since it was the 1950s and that was not considered acceptable.
ever since GW started shutting down the fanmade animated projects I've been waiting for someone to do a video like this pointing out just how many IP's GW has ripped off.
Got you one better, Kirioth. >looks up< "Nope." >locks door
I am surprised you didn't mention Hellraiser as an influence on Aeldari and particular Drukhari and their Haemonculi.
By extension of props, the Armor used in Starship Troopers was used in the filming of Power Rangers Lost Galaxy. Just a fun fact.
Also the director of the Starship Troopers movie, didn’t understand the government from the book, so he made them obviously authoritarian, and satirical.
And Firefly the series
@@erikjohnson7141 I had forgotten that.
@@Geeko170 I'm a huge Firefly fan. Loved everything about it
Wow! Didn't knew that.
Who ripped off who? Not sure, but who did Games Workshop ripoff? I feel there would be a shorter list of who they didnt ripoff lol.
Fun Fact: the book “Starship Troopers” is one of the books on the Commandant of the US Marine Corp recommended reading list.
For a good reason. I had to read and discuss the book with my 1SG with points pulled from it. It's actually really good and makes great points.
My Gunny made us read it. I thought it was a really good book. I would say the book is more about military and political philosophy than propaganda, which is admittedly why I really didn’t get the movie the first time I saw it.
@@grimb8kn748 probably why non military don't seem to understand the book. I loved the movie before I read the book. Now I love both. But yeah the political philosophy was what me and my 1SG discussed. It was actually a nice experience, we bonded a bit and I understood his reasons behind his decisions.
Another thing I didn't knew.
Makes sense.
Please please please somebody talk about Michael Moorcock 's books, so much of chaos was taken straight from his pages.
Cormorragh is Melniboné's younger, nicer cousin, straight up
@@MurakamiTenshi And the Craftworld eldari are dickish Vadhaghs, yes.
The Dark Elves and Drukhari are basically Melnibone. Even down to the human instrument thing!
When I clicked on the video and saw it was 1:20 I was like “what? How is it this long?” And then I realized it’s a Keiroth episode and I was like “oooohhhh that’s why”
NGL, I love these episodes
@@dzasays5516 honestly same
I thought of aliens when Hicks is yelling "we are leaving"
They were like "We've been talking about Dune too much..." and me as someone who's read God Emperor, I'm like "No, you didn't talk about Dune enough!"
Mutant Chronicles, where the guard open the a portal to chaos because of all the 'blood sacrifices' during WW1.
About the Starship Troopers stuff, mainly the movie. I just want to mention thos quote.
"I want to make a movie so painfully obvious in its
satire that everyone who understands it lives in
perpetual psychological torment inflicted on them by
all the people who don't"
-Paul Verhoeven, 1996
If only the satire was competent in this case, unlike Robocop.
@@Andersonzabuza I'd say it was quite competent, as much as Robocop.
@@Jormyyy I would disagree considering much of the movie you see the Federation doing numerous things that would be anthema to an actual fascist state and only a single instance, maybe, that could be otherwise but we don't have enough information on it (the execution scene, for reference).
I don't doubt the director's intent behind the movie, you can see it, but I do think he did an utterly abysmal job of it at almost every level considering he's sayirizing fascism that doesn't exist by portraying non-fascist actions but thinking they are.
Honestly, I think you guys overlooked a major influence for Warhammer: Lovecraftian horror.
I don't see many people mention Isaac Asimov's Foundation when it comes to 40k inspirations. I might be wrong but I think it's among the earlier depiction of Cult Mechanicus style religion as a tool for conquest and control.
Just reminding everyone that the foundation series from issac azamov is the true foundation of sci fi foundation was published 1951 and dune was 1965
I haven’t watched this yet, but I’m gonna guess there’s no mention of A Canticle For Leibowitz. The novel that inspired the Adeptus Mechanicus and Brotherhood of Steel.
Also not really a direct inspiration, though it did come out first but Boloverse has giant super tanks loaded with guns powered by AI and has many stories of humanity waking up these machines to help them fight off aliens. Again might not be an actual inspiration but definitely similar to Baneblades and Titans with there machine spirits. Especially the Mark XXXIIIs which work basically identically to Titans and there thrones. Even if it’s not 40K, you can just pretend it’s taking place during the Golden Age of Technology and a bit into the start of the Age of Strife.
On tonight's episode of the Ridiculous Tour:
Bricky recommends a lot of actually quite good books that are very influential in the world of sci fi and you should definitely read some of them.
DK makes it clear that he will read none of them
And Shy is glaring at anyone talking louder than a whisper because this is a Library, damnit!!!
All this to come and more, after the break!
My reccomendation is Illium and Olympos by Dan Simmons. If you've ever wondered if the Siege of Troy could be improved by an army of robots, given it a look.
Dan Simmons is great. My own two cents, read the first Hyperion book as well it’s one of my all time favs.
@@menschman1464 ironically, I've only read the last two of the Hyperion Cantos somehow. But even not having properly read the series, can confirm it's great!
This... I might have to read. Screenshot taken for reference later!
@@SymbioteMullet book one is really incredible. Possibly my favorite novel of all time. Not spoilers for story but structurally it’s set up like a sci fi cantorbury tales with seven characters all going to a holy site. Each subsection is one of the characters telling their story, and each time it changes sub-genre (there’s a war story, a horror story, a tragedy, a dark comedy etc) and usually changes up perspective (one’s a journal one’s first person one’s third person etc) it’s such a neat weird book.
Simmons also has some horror stuff, the terror (was made into a series on amc I think) and summer of night are stand outs
Re: Event Horizon, it was originally meant to be a Hellraiser sequel.
If I wasn't bald I would rip my hair out at the clear lack of knowledge for Dune and Starship Troopers, which is weird given they are the main topics, but that's glum "im at work putting up with job shit listening to this" and I sometimes forget this is a convo between pals.
No welcome to the club. I love seeing people discuss Starship when they only know about it from a paragraph summary written by a teenager with no political knowledge and a movie by an angry man who hated and couldn't be fjcked to read the source material.
It's a phenomenal book and people who don't understand the political commentary of it all really shows why the western world is where it is now. Not to mention they call Heinlein gramps, like he's some stereotypical boomer and not an author who had a non-white main character in a time before the MLK Jr and the main Civil rights movement
@@erikjohnson7141 Are you fine with people like me that doesn't care much about the politics and read is as a coming of age story?
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 nah that's fine, I suppose it did have elements of that.
@@erikjohnson7141He was a stereotypical boomer. Read his stuff on the Vietnam War or nuclear deescalation
@@erikjohnson7141 “the movie made fascism look ridiculous and that makes the director a bad person!”
Honestly my favorite thing on that topic is the part of "The Mote in God's Eye"(1974) that has an excerpt about the story "Istvaan Dies" about the Empire of Man bombing a habited planet until everyone on it was dead. I just find that absolutely hilarious, that the idea for that was entirely taken from another book from 13 years before 40K was even a thing
What did Bricky mean by ‘not currently great’ opinions with Heinlein? Not wanting the world to end and being colorblind is problematic?
Can we all agree that Kirioth should be a permanent member of the crew and not just on a 12 month probation period. Anyway great work everyone as always and keep it up.
For the record, Starship Troopers THE BOOK was serious. The movie was a satire. Paul Verhoeven was strongly against the militaristic and authoritarian themes of the book, and decided to use the movie as a way to undermine them.
Just like the Starship troopers movie, Helldivers 2 tells the player that they’re not the good guys but only shows/has the characters doing morally correct and even anti-fascist things consistently
Man i understand Kirioth , i too did watch Event Horizon when i was a kid. Watching it at 10 years old IS NOT a nice experience.
Don't forget in Rebel Moon the TECH PRIESTS IN RED ROBES THAT INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AS THE MECHANICUM LED BY BELISARIUS
Can you please draw a straw on kirioth?
The poor guy can't drink coffee with his vox😢
If you guys want a version of Dune that isn't the 1984 version, and doesn't have the pacing issues of the newest one, sci-fi made Dune and Children of Dune into a miniseries and the director's cut is pretty deece. Children of Dune stars a young James McCavoy. Edit: It should also be noted that the god-emperor that appears in God Emperor of Dune is actually Paul's son Leto. In Children of Dune Paul's son becomes the Kwisatz Haderach by combining his flesh with the sand worms in order to save his people, sees the "golden path" and feels that he is now trapped by it and cannot change it.
Starship troopers book was a hero book sort of. It glorified militarism. The movie and the book are two different beasts.
Great Episode, but you forgot Foundation from Isaac Asimov and how it influenced Warhammer 40k. It even got an Series on Apple.
Oh yeah, I've heard a movie critic describe the Starship Troopers movie adaptation in relation to its source material as "the most staggeringly mean-spirited things an artist has done to another artist"
OOO! Very close and I think you're right on the quote being the shortest. If it wasn't abbreviated, it would have been tied with, "God is cringe," during the episode of "The Last Church."
Roll the R a bit stronger in Perkele. It can't be too strongly emphasized. You'll get there, Padawan.
@52:00 Paul verhoven. He grew up in nazi occupied Belgium and did not truck with anything fascist at all. He only read part of the book and said nah I don't like this. So he set out to make the movie as satirical and poking fun at fascism as he could.
The Federation in his movie isn't fascist though. They actually are a democracy. Their Sky Marshal steps down after the debacle at Klendathu. Their propaganda always tells the truth and only then attempts to put a spin on it. You can leave the military in boot camp with no questions asked.
If the Federation is supposed to be fascist, then Verhoven doesn't know what fascism is.
The starship troopers book was awesome! If I remember correctly they had jumppacks as well as the power armour. :)
The director of Starship Troopers was a hack, he hated the book, gutted the story and pushed out his own propaganda. I'm glad that people love the movies in a way that he hates as people still see the bugs as scum that needs eradicating and the humans are cool.
Paul Verhoeven absolutely made the movie to spite the book, he famously couldn't even get through the book
In Dune the context actually had sort-of aliens. The Emperor foresaw a great threat in the future from outside the human Empire, and therefore needed to iron out everything before that transpired. The whole thing revolved around the enemy being super-intelligent and therefore able to see the future by doing super complex calculations, so what You need is humanity to evolve in such a way that is extremely unpredictable, therefore throwing a wrench into the enemy's best asset. At least that's what I remember - it's super convoluted though. Basically the problem of "how do I fight an enemy that can predict my every move in a deterministic world", to which he said "make it not deterministic"
51:05 heinlein died before the movie came out
I've never wanted to well actually them before but as a dune lore lover I cant help it. Also if you don't know dune, spoilers.
The Sardaukar were abolished by Leto II after one of the Duncans, as captain, led a revolt against him. The fish speakers replaced the Sardaukar and existed for the vast majority of Leto's rule so he never used the Sardaukar in any real sense since they were loyal to the Corrino family first and only followed Leto for a short time because of Farad'n being the concubine of Ghanima. Also the big difference between Leto and big E is that Leto can actually see the future, not just a vague notion, so his being a tyrant is because he knows it's the only way for humanity to survive and really didn't want to do it since it came at the massive sacrifice of his humanity, both mental and physical, and he knew he would die and live in a permanent state of dreamlike awareness for thousands of years. Like he called Paul a coward for not having the guts to make that sacrifice. He also didn't really rule through bloodshed as much as ironhanded economics. His full spice monopoly meant that military action against him was basically impossible since spice was necessary for all forms of trade and transportation, and again, can see the future. Leto's peace as it was called was just a complete enforcement of the status quo. Travel bans were issued across the empire meaning outside of trade and key individuals you were not allowed to leave the planet you were born on. His goal was to make humanity so bored that they would never again allow a tyrant to rise out of a desire for security or just complacency, and humanity would explode into the universe during the scattering because of thousands of years of enforced confinement.
I am so stoked for Warboss book club. Perfect example of when imperial ineptitude at every level meets with the unwavering conviction of orkish willpower.
49:37 This is why the 1988 Starship Troopers OVA is considered the best adaptation of the book. It has kicks** power armor!
Paul Edward Hoven directed Starship Troopers and he made it as satire of Nazi occupied Holland which he grew up in.
He also notoriously refused to read Heinlein's book
it probably was just for creative reasons but I wonder if it was also because Heinlein did believe in required military service lol
@3RNR3 the belief, at least between me and my former 1SG is that if people had to serve they'd underatand the weight of war. You have to keep in mind Heinlein wrote it before the massive military industry hit and war became a profit machine. But yeah, if your leaders experienced and understood the brutality and cost of war, leaders would think twice before making decisions for us to send people to war. It's why even the vets that liked fighting that I know and served with frequently are anti government and anti war. They did it because it was a job and gave them opportunities and benefits they didn't have and they got that rush, but deep down they really don't like war. It's was enlightening joining the army because you find out that what most people believe about the military isn't true or not to the extent they believe.
@@3RNR3 Soldiers are the most anti war guys that exists.
@@erikjohnson7141 the theory doesn't seem to hold up given how many US presidents in the last century were in the military before going into politics. Not to mention the tapes Kennedy recorded of the joint chiefs almost starting WW3 during the cuban missile crisis because the military leaders were way too gung ho about using force to solve their problems
46:20 Note: bio-lock measres on weapons only serve to give power to a swich to unlock a bolt.
Tear off the lock, apply a charge to the switch, bolt unlocks.
For Starship Troopers bugs, they do have FTL spaceships. Books go into it more, but the movie briefly mentions it from what i heard. They are an expansionist race and inhabit other planets.
(Plan to rewatch the movie as its been a while, especially with HDII makes me want to watch it again, and will check for myself)
As for the "the feel fear" scene. Yeah its goofy to us and how its played out. In context the earth forces were in serious trouble as they were barely hanging in the fight vs the bugs. The fact the brain bug of a hive mind felt fear means that it thinks they, the bugs, are instead the ones in trouble. Which gave the troopers there in that moment a glimps of real hope against the bugs.
Congrats on missing the point of the movie
@@Scowleasy oh i know its got satirical parts in relations to fascism as well action pieces. Doesn't mean there are parts in satire that can make you think, sometimes thats the point. There is such a thing as a scene or jokes to have multiple meanings.
For example, yeah it appears silly that the recruiter of all people is disabled yet still encouraging those who decide to sign up. In reality, both book and movie, this recruiter is there to show what could happen to those in the military. And are you really, really, sure you want to join up as emlisted man/woman?
But sure, narrow down to just satire and action if you like.
52:25 correct Bricky! Verhoven (the director) talks in interviews saying that was indeed his intention.
Both Robert Heinlein and Paul Veerhoven lived through WW2.
Heilein was an adult in the US and was reformed out of the Navy for a disease before the conflict.
Veerhoven was a child in the occupied Netherlands.
They don't have the same perspective on the militarism and fascism thing XD
Heinlein was not racist though, which is rare for 1959. Like, in the book, John Rico is Juan Rico, and he's from the Phillipines, and most of the characters are not white ^^
It wasn't rare for 1959.
During the 1920's, Lovecraft was called out for his public displays of racism. The anti racism sentiment was already there.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660It was rare to be openly a white supremacist like Lovecraft, but casual racism was not rare at all ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 Maybe Im being super literal, but Lovecraft was super casual with his racism, that is what made others uncomfortable.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660Dude, Lovecraft had multiple non-white helpful main characters in books released during PEAK LYNCHING time.
His problem was that he was socially inept and the 1/3rd of others racism had a leak in from his very full international tanker worth of classist thought.
If Cain ever gets the treatment of saint Celestine, I imagine his personal hell to get ressurected would be something akin to a greeting hall with everyone who followed him praising him and thanking him for his leadership as the hero of the imperium, while he has to walk to the other side of the wall to manifest himself. His stomach dropping for every step he takes, surrounded by the poor fools who still believe him to be a hero, forgetting how his failures caused their deaths.
Ahhh to be nostalgic for the times when GW would just say you know what go a head and use the old miniatures it's cool.
Half an hour in and not surprised we're still in Dune. I always saw it like Herbert claiming "Scifi needs to go dark" and GW laughed and said "Hold my beer!" Love them both!
About Starship Troopers, I immediately toyed the idea that the asteroid attack was false flag operation, igniting horrible hatred against the bugs.
Amnesia: The Bunker is HORRIFYING. Managing the dilemma of gas, experimenting with hiding is spine chilling, and holy you have to play as the ultimate terror. The French.
I love these episodes. Kirioth is such a great addition, and I loved the concept. Part 2 now plz!
No one gives the Sci-Fi channel series "Dune" the credit it deserves. It's honestly one of the best there is.
43:55 Check out the Dominator from Psycho Pass. If you like those guns, you will love this thing.
49:20 the crippled guy is in the book as well. He misses 3 limbs and has no prosthetics.
But when the protagonist stay a bit late into the night, prostetics guy walks past them on some fancy metal legs. He goes: "Oh the cripple thing is just to scare of the kids with weak minds".
Generally they don't want everyone to serve, just the most arian people are worthy of a position in the military. There are a lot of facist undertones as well, like the unworthy applicants becoming human lab rats.
Also Carl died on Mars. Poor Carl
A Tzeentch movie should be a time paradox of the future crew trying to murder their past selves before they encounter demons of Tzeentch.
A suggestion for a future video: a deep dive into the subfactions of the Radical and Puritan members of the Inquisition.
I had no idea I needed this episode so badly
The Sam Neil line from Event Horizon that will Forever be burned into my mind, when he’s sitting in the chair and he turns and says “ we don’t need eyes where we’re going “ which is just like a What the fuck line, but also it’s just plain creepy.
"There's the God-Emperor of the Imperium"
shows the Baron Harkonnen
facepalm
for the love of god please get someone who knows about Heinlein on the podcast at some point to explain how little you guys understood of the actual book and what he was going for ... it had very little overlap with anything 40k, despite what the movie would have you believe (the director never read the book and refused to use it for the script), although Starship Troopers was Hugely influential in Japan and the creation of their love of giant stompy robots - the Mobile Infantry do use powered armor, but they're described more in the Hulkbuster/Gundam "power armor" and not like Space Marines who are men with powered suits on.
Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers to advocate for the duty and responsibilities of a citizen and to outline his "ideal society" where anyone Could be a citizen, but that meant that a citizen had served the republic in some way ... and those who did Not serve the republic in some way were not a citizen and therefore could not vote on laws, etc. ... essentially, unless you had sacrificed you could not understand what it means to ask others to do so, and that society must be guided by those who had actually secured its freedoms. So, when the recruiter is saying "the MI made me what I am today!" he is doing two things - one, being very serious ... it made him a citizen and he's now able to vote, doesn't have to pay taxes, etc. and therefore he is willing to accept that he no longer has arms/legs because of what he has Gained through service (he feels he is More than a "mere civilian" who never served and must pay taxes, restricted from gov office, etc.); but, his second function (which is Literalyl Explained In The Book By The Recruiter) is to try and discourage as many ppl as possible from joining the service because Anyone can join ... and they have to find a job for them all, regardless of how fit they are to actually serve. And every job must, in some way, put the person at risk so that everyone finishes their service with a sense of understanding what it means to Be a citizen. So if someone who has the actual brain capacity of an ant wants and all they can do is sweep floors? Those floors have to in some way pose a threat to his life so when he leaves the service and votes? He knows what it means to be a citizen ... if ... he can grasp the concept of ... whatever, semantics.
I'm pretty sure the service had to be difficult, not particularly dangerous.
Hence the example of someone like a paraplegic counting the hairs on a worm.
So with the example of sweeping floors, its probably the most disgusting and caked over floors there are in the federation.
My impression has always been that "service" must in some way pose a threat to their life so that when they vote to go to war they understand the burden of being a citizen and deciding to send someone off to potentially die, because they have faced that potentiality themselves. Or, the more likely scenario, they understand what it "means" to be a citizen - ie, they feel they earned the benefits they now receive and it is "difficult+dangerous" enough to dissuade the majority of people from joining.@@jaromswenson7541
I like to think that Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy is the origin of the "Emperor being nearly dead for thousands of years" thing.
Deathwatch is the best on screen representation of Stephen King's concept of the Thinney I have ever seen. Just fantastic.
I think the watcher in the rain would make a great film.
As a calm person once said: Rebel Moon is not good but the fact it exists is good
To simplify for the people who don’t understand, Rebel Moon isn’t good but the fact that it’s original is good
There’s a hell of a big difference between “new IP” and “original content”.
@@starwarsnerd100your point?
Original lmfao
@@piratekingthaszar7912it’s not completely original it doesn’t have to be, to be new
@uria3679 it's not new either.