Doing a postdoc is a mug’s game. I did two. At least my second was in Montreal so I got to live in another country for two years. But I wasted 8 years of my life doing academic cr@p which in practice was of no use, and I learnt bad habits that hindered me in later life. Unfortunately we are conditioned, by academics, throughout our degree and PhD to think that industry is inferior, that academics are far cleverer. It isn’t and they’re not. In fact academia can in many ways be backward. Academia is sociopathic.
Oh wow, this is shocking man! Being external, I never knew academia was so loaded with bullying and harassment. Thanks for bringing it to light and being transparent about it.
"I wish more people understood that that the academic mindset - the way of thinking that we cultivate in ourselves and others - is unavoidably **cold, clinical, ambition-oriented, and alienating**. We tend to objectify everything, and process everything either as a teleological system to be worked through or an analytical problem to be dissected and resolved. That mindset is something separate from intelligence; it's more a matter of socialization than aptitude. Some students take to it like ducks to water, others (often the more sensitive, intuitive students) can find it brutal and hostile." This is a quote I found on Academia SE (from user TedWrigley). I think if we understand this and take it seriously, we can change it over time.
I'm not so sure changing that would be benifical to acedemic endevors. That cold analytical approach is a corner stone to being a good researcher. Some people have a hard time having their ideas challanged. It suck but suck it up. Thats how the wheat is sorted. This said many acedemics need to take their reseaecher cap off more. It also doesnt excuse acedemics being overly mean spirited and destructive.
The sheer number of phds being graduated in these fields is a huge contributing factor to the problems. In my field in academia the starting pay is 100k+ and no one does postdocs. We graduate less phd than jobs instead of 10k+ phds every year for 2 jobs. This won't stop until people stop getting degrees that have no future in academia and dry up the market.
I'm an Engineer and tried some part time teaching at the end of my career. I did enjoy the student interaction immensely but, as a work place among academics...you can add gaslighting to the bullying and harassment!
Great content, Aamir! I've seen toxicity and poor working environments in academia, but I've seen way more of the opposite. Perhaps it is because I started my PhD later in life and I've seen other industries and I know the grass is not greener there. Doing the PhD is my life's best - and toughest - career decision. All the best.
I get it. But what other job gives you the complete freedom to do what you want? And teach two/three times a week... And the pay is great. Tenure track is a good deal. This seems too specific to postDocs
Yeah... kinda just seems like you have an unusually good deal OP. The vast majority of tenure track and even tenured faculty do not have research freedom and are not paid competitively compared to their industry counterparts. Also, ignoring or dismissing an issue just because it doesn't specifically affect you isn't such a great look...
It's not as bad as it could be because you could have more serious responsibility? That's not an argument. It doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the video (and I totally agree that academia is toxic). If you are in prison and you are being tortured, it's not that bad because at least you don't have responsibility for other lives??
I ve never seen bullying and harassment in the mathematical sciences. So I think that not all of academia is toxic. That academia is no place for family guys, I believe that is taken for granted nowadays. I would never think of being a postdoc if I had a family or the intention to make one soon. Being a researcher in the competitive reality of academia today means to be fully dedicated to your discipline of study, simply because you have passion for it, and because this passion gives more meaning to your life than building a family or whatever else people do when they get a 9-5 job. Work-life balance does not even make sense for a postdoc or an assistant professor etc if you seek an academic career, I think you need to identify your life with your work, or almost. You have to literally be a genius to be able to carry out academic work like a 9-5 job. If you are not a genius (or clever enough to seem like one) you will have to be fully committed, and if this commitment weighs on you, than academia is not the right place for you. The competition is so high anyway, than if people leave academia things can only get better. This level of competition is clearly unhealthy. Could be because funding is too little, or because so many people study and aim for the same top positions that it is never going to be enough, I dont know, but we all know the premises of academic jobs, it is only a matter of decisions. Be honest to your students, dont sell them fairytales, so that they ll make those decisions at the right time without illusions nor regrets. They need to know that academia will be their way of life more than their job. After all the greats never treated their research as a job. They were suck into it. This is what is expected of an academic. Let s stop complaining and face the truth while making the decisions that are right for us.
What rock are you living under??? Math and science, especially math, are filled with some major league shyster abusers and bullies. There is a crap-load of people with master degrees in math that end up being victimised by "academia" when they become math adjuncts. She tee treatment and abusive practices are the order of the day for math adjuncts. There is little recourse because they need to make a living.
That’s a pretty long-winded way to say “go suck it”. Kind of comes across as bullying. Go try working at UAH in their math or physics departments. Then get back to us.
Doing a postdoc is a mug’s game. I did two. At least my second was in Montreal so I got to live in another country for two years. But I wasted 8 years of my life doing academic cr@p which in practice was of no use, and I learnt bad habits that hindered me in later life. Unfortunately we are conditioned, by academics, throughout our degree and PhD to think that industry is inferior, that academics are far cleverer. It isn’t and they’re not. In fact academia can in many ways be backward. Academia is sociopathic.
I relate so much to this its incredibly frustrating how much time and effort we put in but get barely anything back
Sociopathic is the word, and I am certain that the top succeeding must be broken and disconnected from their sensitivity...
agree. I walked away from my PhD program due to sentiments similar to your's. thanks for your thoughts on the matter.
Oh wow, this is shocking man! Being external, I never knew academia was so loaded with bullying and harassment. Thanks for bringing it to light and being transparent about it.
Yeah it is quite widespread and unfortunately not given the publicity it should to help raise more awareness! It is a real shame
Yeah it is. It is even worst for strong men. They will lay it on you then claim to be the victim.
"I wish more people understood that that the academic mindset - the way of thinking that we cultivate in ourselves and others - is unavoidably **cold, clinical, ambition-oriented, and alienating**. We tend to objectify everything, and process everything either as a teleological system to be worked through or an analytical problem to be dissected and resolved.
That mindset is something separate from intelligence; it's more a matter of socialization than aptitude. Some students take to it like ducks to water, others (often the more sensitive, intuitive students) can find it brutal and hostile."
This is a quote I found on Academia SE (from user TedWrigley). I think if we understand this and take it seriously, we can change it over time.
I'm not so sure changing that would be benifical to acedemic endevors. That cold analytical approach is a corner stone to being a good researcher.
Some people have a hard time having their ideas challanged. It suck but suck it up. Thats how the wheat is sorted.
This said many acedemics need to take their reseaecher cap off more. It also doesnt excuse acedemics being overly mean spirited and destructive.
The sheer number of phds being graduated in these fields is a huge contributing factor to the problems. In my field in academia the starting pay is 100k+ and no one does postdocs. We graduate less phd than jobs instead of 10k+ phds every year for 2 jobs. This won't stop until people stop getting degrees that have no future in academia and dry up the market.
I'm an Engineer and tried some part time teaching at the end of my career. I did enjoy the student interaction immensely but, as a work place among academics...you can add gaslighting to the bullying and harassment!
So so true! I’m sorry you went through that but at the same time I’m not surprised unfortunately
Excellent video, I am in the same boat although having security but it seems academia is not for me, it affected my mental health as well.
I’m really sorry to hear that, it is tragic the way academia is! I hope we all can find a better solution
Great content, Aamir! I've seen toxicity and poor working environments in academia, but I've seen way more of the opposite. Perhaps it is because I started my PhD later in life and I've seen other industries and I know the grass is not greener there. Doing the PhD is my life's best - and toughest - career decision. All the best.
It’s a shame that across nearly all disciplines of academia you get this toxic behaviour it really needs to change! Thank you for your minds words ☺️
Imagine how much better our lives would be if postdocs got well funded, better paid, and we had triple the amount we have now.
the crazy thing is that is what we should be given yet apparently it is such a big ask! spot on comment!
Thank you for sharing this!!!
You are so welcome!
postdoc pr PhD student life is really not that hard. come to industry, its not that different there...
please tell us how we can support you? If we can we will!
Yeah... capitalism...
good comentaries,
I get it. But what other job gives you the complete freedom to do what you want? And teach two/three times a week... And the pay is great. Tenure track is a good deal. This seems too specific to postDocs
yeah but tenure track is rigged for insiders
Complete freedom? Great pay? Where do you teach?
Yeah... kinda just seems like you have an unusually good deal OP.
The vast majority of tenure track and even tenured faculty do not have research freedom and are not paid competitively compared to their industry counterparts.
Also, ignoring or dismissing an issue just because it doesn't specifically affect you isn't such a great look...
It's not as bad as it could be because you could have more serious responsibility? That's not an argument. It doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the video (and I totally agree that academia is toxic). If you are in prison and you are being tortured, it's not that bad because at least you don't have responsibility for other lives??
I ve never seen bullying and harassment in the mathematical sciences. So I think that not all of academia is toxic. That academia is no place for family guys, I believe that is taken for granted nowadays. I would never think of being a postdoc if I had a family or the intention to make one soon. Being a researcher in the competitive reality of academia today means to be fully dedicated to your discipline of study, simply because you have passion for it, and because this passion gives more meaning to your life than building a family or whatever else people do when they get a 9-5 job. Work-life balance does not even make sense for a postdoc or an assistant professor etc if you seek an academic career, I think you need to identify your life with your work, or almost. You have to literally be a genius to be able to carry out academic work like a 9-5 job. If you are not a genius (or clever enough to seem like one) you will have to be fully committed, and if this commitment weighs on you, than academia is not the right place for you. The competition is so high anyway, than if people leave academia things can only get better. This level of competition is clearly unhealthy. Could be because funding is too little, or because so many people study and aim for the same top positions that it is never going to be enough, I dont know, but we all know the premises of academic jobs, it is only a matter of decisions. Be honest to your students, dont sell them fairytales, so that they ll make those decisions at the right time without illusions nor regrets. They need to know that academia will be their way of life more than their job. After all the greats never treated their research as a job. They were suck into it. This is what is expected of an academic. Let s stop complaining and face the truth while making the decisions that are right for us.
What rock are you living under???
Math and science, especially math, are filled with some major league shyster abusers and bullies. There is a crap-load of people with master degrees in math that end up being victimised by "academia" when they become math adjuncts. She tee treatment and abusive practices are the order of the day for math adjuncts. There is little recourse because they need to make a living.
That’s a pretty long-winded way to say “go suck it”.
Kind of comes across as bullying.
Go try working at UAH in their math or physics departments.
Then get back to us.
speak clearly...ur muffled or sumn
Amazing video! Thanks please create more 🫶🏻