Thanks to everyone who watched, commented, and voted in Round 1! Sweet 16 Round voting is now up on the Community page of the channel: www.youtube.com/@ZillaBlitz/community Voting will likely continue through December 29. :)
I think people tend to take these kids of things just a little too seriously ;). You're not trying to establish definitively what the best games are, just having fun seeing the way the matchups play out. If you shuffled the brackets it could be very different. I am just voting based on which game I would rather play. In some cases, that's the lighter more accessible game versus the highly detailed monster.
I see this as mainly entertainment, for sure, and it's fun to see how the match-ups play out. But yeah, a lot of factors go into a vote like this, and I'm not claiming to establish any definitive result.
I have great memories of playing AH Battle of The Bulge 1981. We would play each turn every evening through December and to the end, through the Christmas Holiday. We did this a couple of years.
Wacht am Rhein - one of our local hobby shops left this game set up on a table and the players came in on a weekly basis to make their moves and resolve combat !! People could visit that store every week to check out the progress of this "monster game" every week " - very interesting following the progress !!! :-)
Thanks! Yes, if people seem to like this series, I can think of a dozen different ways to take it to other areas, smaller ones for individual battles with only a few games, or other larger ones like '44 France games or Barbarossa games. Ideally I'd like to add some other features, like playthroughs, interviews, more First Look videos, etc. This series is designed as a test of concept, see how it goes.
Good choice! It's up again in this round. I'm curious to see how it does. And that's good to know about A&A. I recently picked up the Pacific one on a GameNerdz sale. Looking forward to try it out. :)
I like monster games. I've got Wacht Am Rhein in my collection. And maybe I'm going to add A Time For Trumpets. It looks like a very cool game to me. Which I must choose, that can be difficult.
Oh my goodness, Bulge Madness continues! I love it! 🍻 Back in the day, Avalon Hill released a series of games designed to be introductory games, with the intent to try to grow a new base of players in the war gaming hobby. Back then, they called the games in the series, The Smithsonian American History Series. One of the games was The Battle of the Bulge, which we referred to it as Bulge 91' ever since. That considering Bulge 65' and Bulge 81'. S. Craig Taylor Jr., if I remember correctly, designed most of the games in the series with Mark Herman's We The People being the last in what became just, The American History Series.
Just went on tp BBG to check Bulge games out. Three tings struck me 1) Panzer Leader was there and pretty high up. But do not count this because it does not fit with what you are trying to do. 2) The ranking does not back up you winners. Which is fine by me. I think yours is probably more accurate. But intersting 3) They use the opening logo from the movis B of B when you do a search for B of B game, While I enjoy the movie for the use of real tanks and it does not bother me that they used US M47's for Tigers it had some great secens. Even the lack historical accuracy did not stop me from enjoying it. But the logo on BBG does look good.
On #2, that is definitely something I've noticed as well, that the BGG ratings aren't very predictive of what's happening so far. Which is cool, I think, as it's making it very unpredictable for me. I'm not voting myself, but am guessing on which games I think will win each match up, and so far I'm 1 right and 3 wrong. :)
Yes, I think there is a lot of potential with the format, we'll see how people like it as it moves on. So far it seems like people are enjoying it, so good good so far. :)
That would be fun, wouldn't it? Great idea, added to the handy dandy notebook. I have a lot of ideas on how to do different ones of these and also elements to add to these sorts of things. I'm very much looking at this series as a prototype for a new type of video content on the channel.
Amazed Celles has gone, that was one I thought might win overall. The second round has games with masses of counters and a huge footprint. Have played Wacht am Rhein, but don't have the game. Enjoying this fun series and looking forward to any play throughs you do. Finally did you mean December rather than January? Merry Christmas to you and your Family
Yeah, the Celles one really surprised me too. It's possible that the fact that it wasn't the full campaign swayed some voters? Hard to tell. Lots of other surprises for me too in the first round. Curious to see how this second round transpires.
Really enjoy this video a lot of fun . Since I only played AH Bulge 65 i am curious if the the changes were only rules in the 81 version. Rules it is a cheap upgrade. Can't wait to see how 81 does against WW2 Commander. I never thought I would like area imuplse games. But I do. AH TPS Stalingrad was my first and I really love it. That drove me to buy Storm over Arnhem, Thunder at Cassino and my Fav Breakout Normandy. So I will have to check out WW3 Commander. Can't Wait. I am also curious have you played all of these oy are you waiting for the winner? Oh yeah Merry Chrismas to you and Happy safe New Year as well Hope you also win all you game played.
Lots of interesting games in here, sounds like a fun journey for you. :) My goal is to play these over the course of the next year, most all of them I picked up this fall in preparation for this series. I hope next year to do a "My Favorite Bulge Games' video. :) Merry Christmas to you as well, and I'm fine with losing games. I lose a lot. :)
I am unfortunately not able to vote on these games. I'm actually not much of a fan of the Bulge and have never played a game set there. Hope you had a great holiday season Zilla? Tell me about breaking the bank on games! I am waiting without patience for my store credit to get processed at Noble Knight Games and I fully intend to use some to get a rather expensive game that is nearly $200 and will be the most expensive game I've ever purchased but its rare and out of print and covers a topic I really like.
I hope so on both accounts! Also going to make a triumphant return to 15mm ww2. Just gotta figure out which theater and which period to start hah.@@ZillaBlitz
Heh--playing the '65 version from AH, and yeah, I like the game play, BUT, there are some rules that are just stuck in there randomly it seems, AND then there aren't really components to handle it. Like the Optional rule for the amount of German attacks per turn--I 'solved' it by having 6 blank counters for their attacks. And if I 'saved' some attacks, just always added 6 counters to the saved ones for the next turn. (Instead of writing it down.) Except you sorta have to write down which units got isolated for when to know to eliminate them SIX TURNS LATER! ;-p So I am pretty sure the '81 version tightened all that up and tweaked any other oddities. BUT, I had to vote for the only one I know! Which may explain the voting so far: we are older and HAVE the older games; BGG users probably trend younger and they vote for the games THEY have. (Or can get, sort of like you mention.)
I have found that with the older games I've explored that the original rules had some holes that are sometimes plugged with revised rulesets, to varying degrees of success. I think the hobby has evolved a good bit since then, but perhaps on the whole games have gotten more complicated? I'm not sure yet, but seeing the way some of the older games are doing in the voting makes me wonder if there's something to be said for revisiting older classics. :)
@@ZillaBlitz It's weird, but I've always found the old rules 'clear' and any minor holes were plugged with logic. BUT, I have the General magazine where they explain the rules changes for '81, and there was just a lot of confusion on things not explicitly stated. Like the 'Exchange': defender loses all combat factors, attacker has to lose as many or more. (to paraphrase). I always took that to mean doubled or tripled factors, since that is what I plugged into the CRT to get the odds--and that's what they want. BUT, a lot of people always said the COUNTER factors are 4, so that's all that has to be lost, not 8 or 12! So they made that explicit in all newer rules sets to use the modified factors. And maps with rivers were always a conflict point: my logic "do you have to wade across water to make this attack?"--doubled! But many people argued--so generally rivers got moved onto hex SIDES on new boards instead of being IN the hexes, so then it was very easy to see you crossed a blue hex. So yeah, I did buy some revised rulesets along the way for games I had, and that's the sort of things they mostly tweaked. Not sure they are better, though! I think evolution SHOULD have produced some really, REALLY good games--the Final Four, for sure!
That's funny that the older games didn't mention whether it was modified or printed combat factors. That would seem to be an obvious question. And certainly lots to discuss about older games vs newer games: mechanics, rules, component quality, so many angles!
I think for wargames the BGG ratings might not be the best way to game's quality? I can imagine a lot of reasons why they might not be indicative of wargamers' opinions.
Thanks! I tried to find SPI's Wacht am Rhein for a few weeks but there were none available in the places I looked. Noble Knight was out. BGG Marketplace was out. I saw a used copy on Ebay that was $200 (that is still available now) but it was punched, in awful shape, and looked likely to be incomplete. After a month I relegated the game to the "too hard/too expensive for people to reasonably find" category. I did try though. I would have been fun to explore and a number of people mentioned it.
The older Games had to be good back in the day , I've been mildly dissdapointed in some modern offerings, not just bulge games, somr rules require u to be mindreader no wonder they come up on eBay unplayed,,, cheers ✍️👍
Thanks to everyone who watched, commented, and voted in Round 1! Sweet 16 Round voting is now up on the Community page of the channel:
www.youtube.com/@ZillaBlitz/community
Voting will likely continue through December 29. :)
I think people tend to take these kids of things just a little too seriously ;). You're not trying to establish definitively what the best games are, just having fun seeing the way the matchups play out. If you shuffled the brackets it could be very different. I am just voting based on which game I would rather play. In some cases, that's the lighter more accessible game versus the highly detailed monster.
I see this as mainly entertainment, for sure, and it's fun to see how the match-ups play out. But yeah, a lot of factors go into a vote like this, and I'm not claiming to establish any definitive result.
Thanks for doing this series, enjoy the voting and analysis
My pleasure, it's been fun to create and watch unfold.
This a fun series. I really enjoy the enthusiasm you put into your videos.
Thanks! These are fun to make. :)
Love this series. This is a lot of fun to be a part of. I'm rooting for AH Bulge 81 and 1944 by Worthington Games.
Thanks! Bulge '81 off to a good start in this round. It's early, but it's looking hopeful for you. :)
I have great memories of playing AH Battle of The Bulge 1981. We would play each turn every evening through December and to the end, through the Christmas Holiday. We did this a couple of years.
Sounds like a great time to and a great custom to have. Thanks for sharing. :)
Wacht am Rhein - one of our local hobby shops left this game set up on a table and the players came in on a weekly basis to make their moves and resolve combat !! People could visit that store every week to check out the progress of this "monster game" every week " - very interesting following the progress !!! :-)
That'd be a fun way to do it, for sure. Sounds great. :)
Good stuff. Maybe this summer you could do the same for East Front games.
Thanks! Yes, if people seem to like this series, I can think of a dozen different ways to take it to other areas, smaller ones for individual battles with only a few games, or other larger ones like '44 France games or Barbarossa games. Ideally I'd like to add some other features, like playthroughs, interviews, more First Look videos, etc. This series is designed as a test of concept, see how it goes.
Loving this series. Can't wait to see how it plays out. ( Let's go bitter woods!)
Thanks! Bitter Woods will be up in the next episode. :)
I'm sticking with AH 1981 since I have played some fantastic games with that one.
And A&A battle of the Bulge is the best A&A game out there.
Good choice! It's up again in this round. I'm curious to see how it does. And that's good to know about A&A. I recently picked up the Pacific one on a GameNerdz sale. Looking forward to try it out. :)
I like monster games. I've got Wacht Am Rhein in my collection. And maybe I'm going to add A Time For Trumpets. It looks like a very cool game to me. Which I must choose, that can be difficult.
I like monster games that have lots of sub-games to them, and both of these seem to do that fairly well. :)
Oh my goodness, Bulge Madness continues! I love it! 🍻 Back in the day, Avalon Hill released a series of games designed to be introductory games, with the intent to try to grow a new base of players in the war gaming hobby. Back then, they called the games in the series, The Smithsonian American History Series. One of the games was The Battle of the Bulge, which we referred to it as Bulge 91' ever since. That considering Bulge 65' and Bulge 81'. S. Craig Taylor Jr., if I remember correctly, designed most of the games in the series with Mark Herman's We The People being the last in what became just, The American History Series.
I had never heard of that series until someone mentioned it in the last episode, but you've filled in a lot of the details. Thanks for sharing!
Just went on tp BBG to check Bulge games out. Three tings struck me 1) Panzer Leader was there and pretty high up. But do not count this because it does not fit with what you are trying to do. 2) The ranking does not back up you winners. Which is fine by me. I think yours is probably more accurate. But intersting 3) They use the opening logo from the movis B of B when you do a search for B of B game, While I enjoy the movie for the use of real tanks and it does not bother me that they used US M47's for Tigers it had some great secens. Even the lack historical accuracy did not stop me from enjoying it. But the logo on BBG does look good.
On #2, that is definitely something I've noticed as well, that the BGG ratings aren't very predictive of what's happening so far. Which is cool, I think, as it's making it very unpredictable for me. I'm not voting myself, but am guessing on which games I think will win each match up, and so far I'm 1 right and 3 wrong. :)
I really am enjoying these buldge offs, great concept and I wonder if you could do more like this with other games, like Sub games etc?
Yes, I think there is a lot of potential with the format, we'll see how people like it as it moves on. So far it seems like people are enjoying it, so good good so far. :)
A suggestion, a Gettysburg Round Robin culminating on July 1st.
That would be fun, wouldn't it? Great idea, added to the handy dandy notebook. I have a lot of ideas on how to do different ones of these and also elements to add to these sorts of things. I'm very much looking at this series as a prototype for a new type of video content on the channel.
Amazed Celles has gone, that was one I thought might win overall. The second round has games with masses of counters and a huge footprint. Have played Wacht am Rhein, but don't have the game. Enjoying this fun series and looking forward to any play throughs you do. Finally did you mean December rather than January?
Merry Christmas to you and your Family
Yeah, the Celles one really surprised me too. It's possible that the fact that it wasn't the full campaign swayed some voters? Hard to tell. Lots of other surprises for me too in the first round. Curious to see how this second round transpires.
nice series, i vote for Butterfields WWII no doubt 🙂
Good choice!
Tigers in the Mist was title for a Commodore '64 game.
Ha! Interesting. I did not know that, thanks. :)
@@ZillaBlitz Sorry, it was Tigers in the Snow my mistake
Really enjoy this video a lot of fun . Since I only played AH Bulge 65 i am curious if the the changes were only rules in the 81 version. Rules it is a cheap upgrade. Can't wait to see how 81 does against WW2 Commander. I never thought I would like area imuplse games. But I do. AH TPS Stalingrad was my first and I really love it. That drove me to buy Storm over Arnhem, Thunder at Cassino and my Fav Breakout Normandy. So I will have to check out WW3 Commander. Can't Wait. I am also curious have you played all of these oy are you waiting for the winner? Oh yeah Merry Chrismas to you and Happy safe New Year as well Hope you also win all you game played.
Lots of interesting games in here, sounds like a fun journey for you. :) My goal is to play these over the course of the next year, most all of them I picked up this fall in preparation for this series. I hope next year to do a "My Favorite Bulge Games' video. :) Merry Christmas to you as well, and I'm fine with losing games. I lose a lot. :)
I am unfortunately not able to vote on these games. I'm actually not much of a fan of the Bulge and have never played a game set there. Hope you had a great holiday season Zilla? Tell me about breaking the bank on games! I am waiting without patience for my store credit to get processed at Noble Knight Games and I fully intend to use some to get a rather expensive game that is nearly $200 and will be the most expensive game I've ever purchased but its rare and out of print and covers a topic I really like.
No worries on the voting, I hope the tournament will provide some viewing entertainment. Sounds like you've got some fun coming soon, then. :)
I hope so on both accounts! Also going to make a triumphant return to 15mm ww2. Just gotta figure out which theater and which period to start hah.@@ZillaBlitz
I just finished Christmas Dinner. No Bulge-Off here. In fact, quite the opposite!
Haha! Can relate. We had lamb and crab, I'm stuffed. Bulge On '23!
Very nice if you ever want to cover French and Indian war games let me know
Thanks, and will do! :)
1 in 3 thats funny. I needed a laaugh today.
:)
Heh--playing the '65 version from AH, and yeah, I like the game play, BUT, there are some rules that are just stuck in there randomly it seems, AND then there aren't really components to handle it. Like the Optional rule for the amount of German attacks per turn--I 'solved' it by having 6 blank counters for their attacks. And if I 'saved' some attacks, just always added 6 counters to the saved ones for the next turn. (Instead of writing it down.) Except you sorta have to write down which units got isolated for when to know to eliminate them SIX TURNS LATER! ;-p
So I am pretty sure the '81 version tightened all that up and tweaked any other oddities. BUT, I had to vote for the only one I know!
Which may explain the voting so far: we are older and HAVE the older games; BGG users probably trend younger and they vote for the games THEY have. (Or can get, sort of like you mention.)
I have found that with the older games I've explored that the original rules had some holes that are sometimes plugged with revised rulesets, to varying degrees of success. I think the hobby has evolved a good bit since then, but perhaps on the whole games have gotten more complicated? I'm not sure yet, but seeing the way some of the older games are doing in the voting makes me wonder if there's something to be said for revisiting older classics. :)
@@ZillaBlitz It's weird, but I've always found the old rules 'clear' and any minor holes were plugged with logic. BUT, I have the General magazine where they explain the rules changes for '81, and there was just a lot of confusion on things not explicitly stated.
Like the 'Exchange': defender loses all combat factors, attacker has to lose as many or more. (to paraphrase). I always took that to mean doubled or tripled factors, since that is what I plugged into the CRT to get the odds--and that's what they want. BUT, a lot of people always said the COUNTER factors are 4, so that's all that has to be lost, not 8 or 12! So they made that explicit in all newer rules sets to use the modified factors.
And maps with rivers were always a conflict point: my logic "do you have to wade across water to make this attack?"--doubled! But many people argued--so generally rivers got moved onto hex SIDES on new boards instead of being IN the hexes, so then it was very easy to see you crossed a blue hex.
So yeah, I did buy some revised rulesets along the way for games I had, and that's the sort of things they mostly tweaked.
Not sure they are better, though! I think evolution SHOULD have produced some really, REALLY good games--the Final Four, for sure!
That's funny that the older games didn't mention whether it was modified or printed combat factors. That would seem to be an obvious question. And certainly lots to discuss about older games vs newer games: mechanics, rules, component quality, so many angles!
Your audience seems to differ from BGG. This is a lot of fun.
I think for wargames the BGG ratings might not be the best way to game's quality? I can imagine a lot of reasons why they might not be indicative of wargamers' opinions.
I wish you had SPI's Wacht am Rhein. A used copy can be found for less than 150$.
This is a great series.
Thanks!
I tried to find SPI's Wacht am Rhein for a few weeks but there were none available in the places I looked. Noble Knight was out. BGG Marketplace was out. I saw a used copy on Ebay that was $200 (that is still available now) but it was punched, in awful shape, and looked likely to be incomplete. After a month I relegated the game to the "too hard/too expensive for people to reasonably find" category. I did try though. I would have been fun to explore and a number of people mentioned it.
The Butterfield game is more an abstract game than a wargame, IMO. Follow the Meuse... Dinant, Namur, Huy, Liège. Shortest cruise ever 😅
Interesting, I look forward to giving it a shot. Thanks!
Many old wargame board-gamers DO NOT HAVE THE NEW Versions !
Yes, that might be the case for a number of these.
The older Games had to be good back in the day , I've been mildly dissdapointed in some modern offerings, not just bulge games, somr rules require u to be mindreader no wonder they come up on eBay unplayed,,, cheers ✍️👍
It's interesting to see how the older games have been doing so far. It's surprised me.
Nostalgia
Lots of it here, for sure. :)
First!
Score!